Well, we welcome our old friend and Dharma sister and teacher, Mary Mosin, here this afternoon in the Berkley Zen Center. Mary had lay ordination here at the Berkley Zen Center, and the name that Sogen Roshi gave her at that time, which continues to be her name, is Holon Zenki, which means Dharma Cloud total joy. It's a pretty good name. And Mary is the Abbess of the Clearwater Center and she's been here frequently and is also very well trained through Tassajara and San Francisco Zen Center so we look forward to your drama. Thank you. Well, I don't know. I have a lecture ready, but I'm tempted, I'm giving in to the temptation to do something else.

[01:06]

We just finished in Vallejo, which is the home of Clearwater Zen Dojo. We just finished a practice period last Sunday. And we studied Jaujo. Sometimes the Japanese call it Joshu. And there's What is it? The Sayings of Zen Master Joshu? Something like that. I call it the Book of Joshu. And so we, that's what we took most of the, I guess you could call them cases or koans from. And so I did a handout of a few that the, the shiso was Steve Trigas, whom many of you know. He and I both went through and picked ones, and I tried to pick the ones that we both liked. And I just fell in love with Chow Chow. We hear about him a lot.

[02:07]

He is in the classic koan collections. A lot of them are from him. And you've had shisos that have had cases of, you may remember, I think Jake had, Go wash your bowl. I'm new here, would you please teach me? And Zhao Zhou says, have you eaten your breakfast? The monk says, yes. He said, well then, go wash your bowl. And Leslie had, ordinary mind is the way. This was actually Zhao Zhou's teaching, Nanchuan. Zhao Zhou came and said, how do I I don't know, how do I figure it out? And shall I seek after it? Then Anjuan says, no, [...] no. To seek after it is delusion and well then how would I know? Well to avoid it is confusion.

[03:08]

To turn away from it is confusion. Well then what am I supposed to do? Ordinary mind is the way. Ordinary mind is the way. and you'll know it when it happens. This true enlightenment is as vast as the sky. That's a paraphrase. But that, that teaching, that ordinary mind is the way, completely informs Zhao Zhou's teaching. The commentary, I think, says that So he had a realization of those words. And then he spent the next decades with Nanchuan, digesting that. And that's what the student did, I think. Understood, I think.

[04:09]

When he said, go wash your bowl, you could say one way of understanding that is simply do the next thing. but also digest your breakfast. They say sometimes that notion of have you eaten your breakfast is code for have you experienced enlightenment yet? Have you had kenshi? Okay. But the point is, was, certainly for Jojo and for us, what do you do with it? How do you digest it? How do you manifest it? Go wash your bowl. The point is not whoop-de-doo, bells and whistles. I see it now. The point is what do you do with it? These things, these things, the ordinary mind and digest the teaching, manifest it, completely permeate Jaojo's teaching.

[05:14]

The other piece is for him was the Shin Shin Ming. Faith in mind, trust in mind, however you translate it. The great way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. The great way is not difficult, only avoid picking and choosing. The first time that people hear that, they kind of laughed. and almost nibble over, because it feels like getting socked in the gut. You know, the first reaction is, well, so much for me. I am nothing but preferences. I use that with the lawyers that I work with at Tassajara every year. I have them read the equation. I'm actually like the first about third of it. And when they read that, they are shocked. And that too permeates Chow Chow's teaching.

[06:22]

Time after time. A monk said, the Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. But teacher... And I started to say that he smacks them, but he doesn't smack them so much. And one of the wonderful things about him was that he didn't, he certainly didn't, he didn't go around shouting very much. He didn't go around hitting people. And he was often kind. One of the criticisms of him is that he explained too much. He ran after my own heart. So, here's one of my favorites. Actually, this is probably, this three pages is a list of my favorites. A monk asked, what is meditation? Zhao Zhou said, it is not meditation.

[07:24]

Why is it not meditation? It's alive. It's alive. And next time you see Steve, you can ask him to sing you his song. Benji composed a song with this. It's alive. He taught with ordinary words. ordinary words, but you have to always look again because there's more to it than appears on the surface. Have you eaten breakfast? Go wash your bowl. But think again. Sit with it some more and let it permeate you. See what happens. He could also be, he could be funny and he could be kind of snotty sometimes, sort of Zen snotty.

[08:36]

And I suppose the monk at whose expense he shared these things might not have thought it was very funny, but I do. A monk asked, what is the way? This is of course with a capital W way. What is the way? It's just outside the fence. I'm not asking about that. What way are you talking about? The great way. Oh, the great way leads to the capital. I don't know. I don't know what, I wasn't there. So you can't see the body language, you can't hear the tone of voice, you can't see the facial expressions. Was this a young monk who was full of herself?

[09:41]

He also had women students. Some of these poems involve women. So maybe she was a little full of herself, or wanting the answer. And one thing he was not about was giving the answer. Except of course for explaining maybe a little too much. So maybe this monk was somebody he felt needed to be punctured a little bit. To be brought back to ordinary mind. To not picking and choosing. Not grasping after the dharma. I don't know. It says the monk said the great way at all caps, right? The master said the great way leads to the capital, no caps. So he probably didn't mean the capital in the sense of enlightenment. Probably just said, Sacramento's that way.

[10:45]

And taught her in that way, taught her to I'm trying to think of a nice way to say it. We didn't do this. It's harder to come off it. Calm down, honey. Just take the next breath. Maybe you need a nap. There's one, I don't think it's in this thing here, What I liked about him so much was that he could laugh with his students, and they could challenge him, and he'd appreciate it. It goes on earlier that, you know, Hakuin is very funny, but he's not, I don't know of any stages where his students are funny, kind of at his expense, and then he laughs. But that happens with downtown. So he says, so Nun asks him about the Dharma or something and he says something like, you should practice so hard you smash the iron bottle.

[12:01]

And she gets up, goes away, gets the iron water bottle, pours the water out, brings it to him and says, here. And he clapped and laughed. So that's funny. I'm having trouble picking and choosing is my problem here. Another time, Cao Zhou said, I can make one blade of grass be a 16-foot golden Buddha. And I can make a 16-foot gold Buddha be one blade of grass. Buddha is compulsive passions.

[13:06]

Compulsive passions, you could call it an ignorant belief in the self, self-clinging. It isn't OCD. It isn't psychosis. It's our garden variety self-clinging, our garden variety delusion. So we don't get a pass here. It's about those crazy people. No. Sorry. Buddha is compulsive passions. Compulsive passions are Buddha. A monk asked, for the sake of whom does Buddha become compulsive passions? The master said, for the sake of people, Buddha becomes compulsive passions. The monk said, how can they be escaped? You know what's coming, right? What's the use of escaping? Why escape? And then, I can make one blade of grass be a 16 foot golden Buddha, and a 16 foot gold Buddha be one blade of grass.

[14:17]

Nowadays we often lean a little towards a psychological explanation and that's what comes to me about this and I'm not sure that that's what he meant. My dharma brother Michael Wecker says that koans are Zen Rorschach tests. You project onto them. So I'm projecting. I don't know that he would agree. He probably would. if I could explain it in 9th century Chinese Buddhist terms. At any rate, the sense that we make our reality. We make our reality. Sometimes, depending on how I respond, or how I happen to be seeing the world that day, I can experience everybody as just fine and be able to listen and appreciate them all.

[15:27]

And I'm just in love with everybody. There's a song there. Everybody loves a lover. I'm a lover. Everybody loves me and I love everybody since I fell in love with you. You know that. I hope you know that experience. But there are days when you just love everybody. Same people. next day you get rejected and those exact same people suddenly are a bunch of jerks they're not they're the same but I change I can make my life miserable I can make my life joyous I used to not so much anymore. I used to go to conferences and within a day or so I would feel like the odd person out.

[16:30]

I would feel like I didn't quite belong. I would feel like those people over there at that table, they're having a really interesting discussion and they don't want me. And as I came to practice more and take take the finger and turn it inward turn the light inwardly I began to know that I was creating this reality and then take a few chances go and sit at that table and lo and behold they didn't all turn their backs on me and if I said something they weren't interested and then all of a sudden all those jerks who were rejecting me became my friends. But I was in charge of that reality. I mean, I'm oversimplifying, but there's a lot of truth to that.

[17:33]

And as I explored this response in me, I began to also know everybody else. I've told this story, versions of this, lots of times. And it's often the case that people in the room are kind of nodding, saying, oh, I know that feeling. I think it's very common to feel left out in the crowd, because it's not a crowd you already know. I also, as I knew myself and I knew others, because the better you know yourself and the reality you create, the better you know other people. Never assume, you can only imagine that that might be, but you know other people. And then you start to notice the people that are sitting off in the corner by themselves, eating lunch by themselves. And you think, I wonder if that person feels left out.

[18:39]

And then you go sit with them and see what happens. And actually often you find really interesting people. And then maybe their experience of the conference changes. So sometimes a 16 foot gold buddha is a 16 foot gold buddha and sometimes I make it be a plate of grass. Those are not, either one of them, a plate of grass or a 16 foot golden buddha. They're neither one of them an unpleasant image so. Hitch to that, to what I'm reading into it. Buddha is compulsive passions. Compulsive passions are Buddha. That fits in with what I'm saying. My garden variety neurotic response to being in a big group of people that are not known to me.

[19:42]

That's my compulsive passion. That's my affliction. That's my is purity that's my ancient tangled karma whatever you want to call it that's my compulsive passion but at the same time that is my teacher right as i explore that as i get to know it as i work with it as i as ellen says don't believe everything you think right as i believe in it less then it it changes but it doesn't go away I mean I have my ancient tangled family karma blah blah blah I have it it's my relationship with it has changed tremendously but it's not like it disappeared but my and my relationship with it changes and how I respond to it changes it's a useful exercise to ask yourself what is my

[20:54]

Well, I don't have to choose biggest. What is one of my really big hindrances? How do my compulsive passions get in my way? Let me think about one. And to reflect on that. And to notice that that may well be also your greatest teacher. Your greatest teacher if you're willing to let that blade of grass become a golden Buddha. What is it? One of mine is that I am, I'm impatient with ambiguity. Which is, I'm also impatient. I'm impatient with ambiguity. and I come from a family where you could not talk about what was going on you never knew really what was going on you could laugh and you could swear but you couldn't talk about emotions of what was happening and I see that now I want to know and I don't want I don't want to not know I want to know what's going on and I can feel it

[22:21]

In my gut, there's a sense, again Alan, you said this once, this feeling of leaning in. Not in the Sheryl Sandberg meaning of it, but just the sense of, for me, I need to know and I need to fix this. This needing to know has been a problem because it does manifest and I'm afraid when I don't know and when I'm afraid I can get aggressive. So that's just me. So alright I know this really well and I'm intimate with this but it is also true that I want to know what is. not in a grasping way, it's, I don't know if it's a level of power, but if there's something below that, I deeply want to know what is.

[23:25]

That's my way-seeking mind. And those two wanting to know are not two. They're not separate. So that's my compulsive passion and my way-seeking mind. If I could get these two fingers closer, I would. So it's a useful exercise to ask yourself what, what hindrance has taught me? What hindrance can I, will I allow to be a 16 foot golden Buddha? And I hope that you will use it and plant it not let it be not what is it how can they be escaped forget it i mean you can't anyway but even if you could why would you why would you what a great jewel golden jewel so i'm going to stop here and ask you if you if you uh

[24:45]

You want to take a moment to think about that, but this is something, we did it in class and we spent a couple of weeks on it, chewing on it, on hindrances and so on, so I'm asking you to think about it for 30 seconds or something, it's maybe not so useful. So let's just pause for a moment and then I'm going to open it up and about anything that I've talked about is fine, it doesn't have to be. about your compulsive passions. How long is that going to be? I said 30 seconds, but I was going to actually do it now. Are you impatient? I learned from Suzuki Roshi that our problems are our practice.

[25:58]

That's a good way of saying it. I think Chow Chow would like that. Who? Chow Chow. Yeah, he wouldn't like it because Suzuki Roshi probably got it from him. There's a lot of... It's not borrowing, right? Whatever it is here. Leaning on old stuff. painting teacher. This is an additive culture. We add to what went before. This is an additive culture. We add to what went before. I got the mic. So does anybody have any questions or comments? Yeah. a lot of problem with this blaming oneself for everything happened to us. I mean, we are living in a world and we always live in a world which is not fair.

[27:04]

I don't... do you blame all these, you know, people that are either in the hospital or in the streets, you know, they're homeless people. Do you blame all these people for what happened to them? No, why would you think that? Did you think that that's what I said? No, it's not what I'm saying. Well, I don't say that and I've never heard that here. Okay, there may be people that say that, but not here. It's not karma. I'm a product of many, many karmic forces. but they're not mine necessarily. If I hit my hand, then I did that, and it hurts. So that's karmic consequence. But there are innumerable causes and conditions giving rise to this moment, going back forever, and they're not mine.

[28:10]

My freedom and my responsibility is how I respond to what presents right now. But it's not a tit-for-tat event. So anybody else? Yes. Thank you, Mary. So you've had some challenges, physical challenges, since you've had your accident. And I was just wondering if you could talk about how this relates to how you're working But on February 22nd, I slipped and fell in the lovely city of Oakland and I was hurled against the front of a big SUV that was parked on the street and I shattered my right elbow. I haven't been able to just get up or down for bowing without my hands for a long time, but I can do it better than I can now.

[29:19]

This arm is now shorter. My right arm is shorter than my left arm and will always be and doesn't totally straighten out. So I practice my body. My practice is a lot of body practice. And so it's being willing, one thing is being willing to let myself feel how upset I am. And that it whispers, maybe beyond whispers to me about death and dying, about being old. Because I'm not, I don't have osteoporosis but I'm sort of borderline and I'm sure that it didn't help any. how much worse it was because I had two plates and 11 screws in my elbow. So I don't know, but to me, that's in the mix somewhere.

[30:19]

So it's a lot about, just about, for me, willingness. Am I willing to be scared? Am I willing to cry? get to that point rather than holding back and then not sleeping all night which I'm entirely capable of and being willing to just keep doing the exercises I mean I still I can I don't know if you guys can see this I can get these fingers I can sort of make a fist but but there's a this it hurts to do this much and there's still a little bit of a gap and this and I can do it easily, just keeping on doing them. One of the wonderful things has been how much support I've gotten.

[31:24]

I was near my sister's house, so I lived at her house in Oakland for, I don't know, a good three weeks, and some of the people in this very room came and brought us food and My sister and I always watched the Oscars together. And they went and they went to pick up food at a restaurant and brought it to us so we could have dinner while we watched the Oscars, which was really sweet of them. Doubly sweet because they like to watch the pre-Oscar stuff. The red carpet. And people went with me to the doctor. stayed at the doctor's during my surgery on March 2nd, because my sister has Alzheimer's, so she couldn't be left alone in the hospital, because she might have forgotten what she was doing there. And there, somebody just called all the time. So I experienced tremendous gratitude and support.

[32:31]

And I was a woman who was my sort of gatekeeper interviewed me periodically and then would get out updates and she would encourage people to encourage me, maybe nag me too, but the impulses to say, oh, I hope you're all better now. And so now I've gotten cards from people One was a duck that said, keep paddling. And I also have a small subgroup saga of people who've had knees replaced and broken their legs and stuff like that. We compare. And encourage each other. So that's also very similar. I guess I'm not ready to say I've learned something from it, because I still am pretty upset about it.

[33:45]

I'm beginning some process of coming to terms with the fact that I'm going to be disabled for the rest of my life. You know, I've never had a serious broken bone. I've sprained a lot of ankles and stuff like that, but never something like this. So? So? But I can bow now. It's not pretty, but I can do it. stand close just in case. Hi. Nice to see you. Lovely to see you. What you said about someone else said that the koans are like Rorschach texts. Yeah, Michael Wenger. I thought that quite a bit. And when I think that, I think It makes me feel negative about studying them. It's like you can see whatever you want in them. Well, I'm sorry.

[34:46]

Are they valuable? Yes. As a rupture test? Well, I just think it's, well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have that be my focus. I think that you have to also, you have to look at the tone and the tone working you. and sit with it. I mean, I usually, if people are really working with them, I tell them to read it, just the koan, not the whole thing, exposition, but the koans, and study it. And, but then, like, before you go to bed, read it. Before you sit outside and read it, or repeat it to yourself. And let it work in your body, and see what comes up. But you do have, it has to have something to do with a, with a koan. But what does it trigger in you? But I wouldn't go, as Sojourner Russia says, don't get caught by the words. Don't get too caught by that notion of a work breakfast. That's not the most important thing.

[35:47]

But I was trying to, I just don't want to put too much into Giaojo's mouth about what I said about making our reality. I think he probably would agree with that, but I don't know. Like the part about, did you eat your breakfast? Did you read that that meant Do you have enlightenment? Yes. You read that somewhere? Yes. But it's been a long time. So maybe reading all the commentaries would help. Sometimes, yeah. I've read, you know, if you eat your breakfast, it just meant ordinary mind to me. Well, that's one of the things it does mean. Right. I don't, I mean, I don't think you have to choose. Okay. And then just do the next thing, right? If you ate your breakfast, you need to do the dishes, right? So that's what it meant to me. Well, that's fine, but keep, let it in. Keep, keep, keep chewing on it. Keep digesting it. I know, um, shisos always have to take a koan and work with it.

[36:52]

And there was one shiso that was working with a koan, and the way she worked with it, I felt, just really reflected her own background, her life and her career. and how she saw the world. And it was like, I didn't see the Zen in it. I just saw what we subjectively see in it. Well, then you need to ask her, where's the Zen in it? I did. Oh, good. Did you get a... She felt she had failed because I didn't see the Zen in it. Well... I don't know. I've had trouble with this Goan thing, obviously. Now can you say something to help me? There's a wonderful poem that goes with Ordinary Mind. Mulan wrote, this was the Ordinary Mind poem.

[37:56]

The way is ordinary mind. The spring flowers, the autumn moon, summer breezes, winter snow. if useless things do not clutter the mind your mind you have the best days of your life now that one makes total sense okay that's ordinary mind yeah Thank you, Mary, for your talk. This point of what you were discussing with your physical challenges, turning that into a 16-foot Buddha, this seems like a very fresh moment to examine that in your life, although we, certainly I, encounter it all the time. What's on top right now in dealing with that? I think, I have to tell you that my parents each died within two months of each other within the first year of my practicing.

[39:02]

It was very much my practice. And Sojin Roshi gave me a koan about death and then blah, blah, blah. And I had some very interesting experiences. The next year, I guess, I did some workshop at Green Gulch and they said do this exercise, when you go to sleep tonight, when you go to bed, imagine your death, and then when you wake up in the morning, imagine being born or something. And so I imagined my death and no fear came up. And I had worked a lot with fear. And so I went to Doxon and I told, I'm sorry, I told Sojin Roshi and said, I can't speak so loud. I think I'm done with my fear of death. He just looked at me and he said, have you... This is a good one. He said, have you written your will? And I said, no. Have you written your will? And I said, okay. And then a month later, I was sitting right up there, you know where the coffee tea stuff is?

[40:05]

I was sitting there waiting to go to Doksan on some weekday afternoon, and I realized, oh, I haven't written my will. So I grabbed some paper, and I started writing. Immediately. You know, you say, who's your executor? And you say, Sally. And he says, oh, Sally's older than I am. Well, then what about Ralph? And this tremendous fear came up. So death is my koan. Fletch told me that years ago. and so anyway that's if I if I'm honest with myself that's it is that Buddha teaching you? yeah but I don't have to like it it's just it's just that's the clearest I've said it when you just asked just now so I'm just cycling up to it one last question

[41:08]

What do you all Coen's have in common? You.

[41:22]

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