Well, during Sashin, which is what we're doing today, I'd like to talk about what we're doing today. About Zazen, and our attitude, and our... just to remind everyone what we're actually doing here. So today I would like to talk about effort. So, we can talk about Buddhism as much as we want, but it's not the same as sitting on your cushion and finding yourself on the cushion, expressing your true nature on the cushion, stopping all activity.

[01:37]

except the activity of the present and the moment. So we have a phrase, effortless effort, which sounds a little contradictory unless you let it permeate your Usually, people think of meditation as something effortless. But everything contains its opposite. In order to express effortlessness, which sounds very nice, it's good, effortlessness

[02:41]

needs a container. So effort is a container for effortlessness. I always like to emphasize this, because even though I do talk about it a lot, you might get bored listening to me. Effortlessness wanders unless it has some container to keep it contained as a function of our activity. So this is why we stress good posture.

[03:45]

Good posture and some rules about how we function in the Zen-do during Zazen or during all of our careful and physical. My teacher used to always walk around the zendo during zazen, straightening everybody's posture. He was always careful to Vertical was vertical, and horizontal was horizontal.

[04:50]

That's all there is to it. If you penetrate, you can penetrate the vertical and the horizontal and where they meet at each moment. That's all there is to it. So, when we sit facetimed, eyes are vertical. Nose is horizontal. You know, it's a particular issue I always like to talk about. No gaining, mind.

[06:20]

As you know. No gaining means not adding something. Which, when we add something, eventually what we add becomes a burden. I've been sitting for 10 years, or 15 years, and I haven't gotten anything yet. I haven't gotten anywhere. That's a complaint. But I always say, well, stop bragging. You know, little by little, Suzuki Roshi always used to say, don't try to improve your practice all at once, but little by little.

[07:28]

If you make little progress at a time, that's very good. By progress, he meant not attaching to something. to be able to let go more and more. Letting go of any kind of improvement. But he did say, see, everything has its opposite, which is also important. Letting go of improvement, but at the same time, finding improvement. There's nothing wrong with finding improvement, as long as You're willing to let go of improvement.

[08:29]

But in practice, improvement means non-improvement. It means not adding something. It's like if you have a tree full of leaves or branches, after the season is over and the fruit is gone, then you prune the tree. So actually, progress means to keep pruning the tree, so the vitality is pure. Pure, in our sense of purity, means a non-duality. That's what we mean by purity. Not like shining something up, you know, to make it look good or something, but to actually just get to the essence.

[09:38]

So if you have something, an element that is very pure, By adding something, it becomes impure. So the more we add, the more impure our practice is. That's why I like to keep our practice very simple. You know, sometimes people say, well, is this all we do? There are all these other things that we could be doing. The thing about Zazen and consciousness is that Zazen actually is beyond consciousness.

[10:46]

So consciousness, it's not that there's something wrong with consciousness. Consciousness is involved with desire, and it's involved with interest. Zazen is not interesting. When you can actually find your true posture, not in the realm of interest. Interest is consciousness, but it's beyond consciousness in that sense, although it includes consciousness. But the consciousness is singular.

[11:51]

And what we want is variety. Variety is interesting. There's nothing wrong with variety. It's the spice of life. But Zazen includes, you know, whatever appears is included in Zazen. beyond consciousness. And then we return to consciousness in a varietal sense, in a discriminating sense. When we say non-discriminating, it means beyond consciousness. We're free of discriminating. This is where we find our true comfort.

[13:14]

It's not so easy to talk about. When you shape the tree, all the leaves fall down, and then you can prune the tree. It does end up a little bit like pruning a tree. You come back to the basic shape, and the tree regenerates itself. you find your true freedom. You know, we talk about returning to your true self.

[14:33]

So whatever you can lose is not your true self. Even when we lose our lives, so to speak, that's radical freedom, so to speak. circle of the earth, this ball, it's really hard to find our true self. So, I don't want to get into talking about a person's death, but I will.

[15:39]

Someone sent me a saying, a little saying, I'm trying to recall it so that it will be, how do we start all over again? And the answer is, So, that's the nuclear issue. We die, and we don't die. If we say we die, that leaves out the other side, which is, we don't die.

[16:52]

And if we say we don't die, that leaves out the other side, which is, we do die. He also said, If it's not a paradox, so to speak, it's not the truth. There's something left out. So we're always in that space where we want certainty. But certainty, there's no such thing, except for death and taxes. So we have our own idea of time and space according to our karma. Other people have another idea of time and space in which they laugh at us or our stupidity.

[17:57]

So, because there's no certainty, we have true vitality. True vitality is responding to circumstances without knowing anything. There's the metaphor of searching for your pillow in the night. You can't see anything and it's there somewhere, but you don't know where it is. That's the vitality and uncertainty of searching like that. Not knowing.

[19:18]

And another said phrase is, not knowing is the highest. So when we basically let go and allow ourselves and I don't know is true, I don't know, is what practice is about. We want to know, and that knowing is great because it's the opposite of not knowing. I don't know, usually.

[20:34]

If you ask a great Zen master a question, they probably say, I don't know. Get back to your cushion. So, Knowing and not knowing. How you hold knowing and not knowing without trying to fall into one side or the other is the vitality of Zazen and our practice. So when you get to a certain age, when we enter this world, from wherever it is we came from,

[22:02]

And we don't know whether we're going up or down. Life is death. And death is life. And you say, well, I'm going to die. But actually, you're going to live. How else could it be? We have these two parameters. one is being born and the other is dying. But if you really think about it, how can something like a child be born without having any history? And how can one die and where would you go? So, in Buddhism, whatever you may think, even though we don't know anything, it's obvious and logical that, as Suzuki Yoshi and others say, we've always been here.

[23:36]

Life forms keep circling and circling and circling. Wow.

[25:50]

So when we're born and then we make a big effort because we're going someplace before we get old. And then when we get old, you don't have the same trajectory because there's nothing, the effort just is not there for most people. Because people realize, and they give me a little bit, it's kind of futile to keep building imaginary castles in the air, to do vain activities. And so they just give in to getting old. That's the trajectory at that point for most people. For a CENT student, Because you're not building castles in the air, your life is more continuous.

[27:41]

Everything you do is one piece. So ambition, so to speak, is turned over to helping people. And so that's something that's continuous and it's not simply a self-centered activity. In my case, I'm 90, so I should be declining. I just feel like continuing what I'm doing because it's not actually just me. It's like the motivation is continuous.

[28:49]

It's not based on something that... So then, how does that student retire? At least it's possible. So, in a sense, my life is just continuous. That's what I understand. It's not, although there are ups and downs and capabilities are, you know, you. But. Actually, there's no, for a Zen student.

[29:58]

The effort. When there's no fear and there's realization that life is actually continuous. It doesn't mean that you have the same form when you disappear. But life itself is continuous and you identify with life itself. And so that effort is effortless. You simply go along with life without fear and without needing anything more than what you have. So that effort, that effortless effort is simply going along with the life that is supporting you. And so, life remains interesting.

[31:14]

I think a lot of older people's lives are no longer interesting. I remember Suzuki Roshi saying one time, When we're young, we're really involved in our life and so forth. But a lot of people, when they become old, are happy to die. And I think that's true. I can see that. It's just too much trouble. The question made your face, I thought. So, yeah. uh but i don't think age being sort of qualitatively the same as when we have this other kind of expression because I think people feel when they don't have the effort or energy to do something that they're failing and that kind of creates that.

[32:51]

So yes, you have to be able to or try to hang on to something. In that case, in that sense, to slow down, right? So to be able to go along and find the rhythm that is appropriate and not make too much extra effort. But we're always doing that, finding the rhythm that is appropriate. Because we're all in some kind of rhythm, and our life follows a certain kind of rhythm. And when it doesn't follow the rhythm, and the rhythm's not there, then you really have a hard time. So finding the rhythm, and going with the rhythm, and knowing what the rhythm is.

[33:51]

But you're fighting it all the time. And every day is different. For some reason my mind is working very slowly today. But sometimes it's not. Usually it's not too bad. Today I have a very slow mind for some reason. So it seems like accepting the container now, which is the slow mind, is sufficient. Yes. And to long for, gee I wish I had more energy to talk that kind of like talent and all that. Right. It doesn't seem to be productive. Yes. I can appreciate how solely my mind is working today. I hope you do. Thank you. Well, I think it's There's somebody in the very back, but I can't tell who it is.

[35:11]

I wanted to poke at this same question from a slightly different angle. You talked in the beginning about effort being the container for effortlessness, and I wondered if you could turn that around for us, about how effortlessness is the container for effort. Of course. and effortlessness are not two different things. It's just a matter of effort comes from you and effortlessness is the quality of effort when effort meets circumstances and takes on a characteristic

[36:12]

of what it means. So, if you want to speak of it that way, it's two different things. I wanted to thank you for your pace today and say how wonderful it is to help me slow down too and whatever pace it is, it's an authentic pace and it helps us to just be present in the moment and some silences are just great to sit here together in and There's more room to hear the words that you're saying and it's a wonderful pace, whatever pace it is.

[37:18]

And I really want to thank you very much for being here and offering yourself at whatever pace is happening on this day. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Being able to murder a circumstance. Sojin, I find effort kind of easy and natural, but resting is irritating to me. What advice do you have about needing to rest, or what rest is, or how to make use of rest? Yes, I will talk about that. We have to find our ease within the effort. So usually we think of ease and effort as two different things. So, within our, what we do, especially in our culture right now, we go to work and work real hard, and then we, for most people, and then we come home and we, you know, watch TV or something, something to rest, you know, if we can rest, because we've been working so hard.

[38:37]

But actually, this way, I think, is to find our ease within the effort. And that's what Zazen is. Within the effort of Zazen, we find the ease. That's what Zazen is. The balance of ease and effort. We think of, you know, put a lot of effort into Zazen. Sit up straight, you know. And then we find the ease within the Zazen. So that Zazen is effortless. That's the balance. We find a balance between effort and letting go. And the only way we can do that is to let go of idealists or ideas and simply merge with what's happening on each moment.

[39:40]

And that's the ease that allows us to do that. And the way that happens is to let go of ourselves. So we say let go of ourselves, but we also acknowledge ourselves. We acknowledge ourselves through the effort and letting go because we have the container. So I said, this posture is the container. And so when our posture is well balanced, it's not a matter of... We use the effort in a way that allows us to let go. That's the dichotomy. Do we have the ease or do we have the effort? So, within the zazen is a structure, and when it's well balanced, there's no effort.

[40:49]

It's effortless. That's my zazen. It's totally effortless when it's well balanced. And it looks like, you know, you're straining to sit up straight and all that, but it's not straining. When all the parts are balanced, all the 300 and whatever little parts are balanced in your body, and they're all doing the same thing, and all cooperating with each other, there's no effort. Totally effortless. And then you can just let go. So that's why Zazen is just there to help you. But you need to rest.

[41:55]

You're resting all the time in your activity. It's not like this is rest and this is effort. within the most developed activity. That's the point. The rest is within the activity, and the activity is within the rest. So, there's no container. It's just freedom. Thank you Sochen. At the beginning you talked about that we don't know, we don't know what Zazen is, we don't know what practice is and now we're talking about effort and effortlessness and I'm wondering if we don't know it maybe in our minds or our words?

[43:12]

But if we know it in our bodies, because I'll know what happens with me is I'll be talking with someone. And I remember you specifically one time I was talking to you about something. Well, you know, I've got this struggle and you said, and I'm saying, how do I do? And you said you stop. And you said, stop doing it. That was the answer. Stop doing it. And what what happened with that? is I felt, oh I get it, for that moment and of course I didn't stop. I keep trying to stop and for a moment And I don't, it's just a body sensation and that happens when I talk to people and someone will just say one line and it's like, oh. So that feels like somehow when that happens, I think I know something. And then I realize I've been making all this effort and now suddenly it's effortless.

[44:21]

Just stop it. You say, I don't know. But that doesn't mean you don't know. Not knowing means that you know. And knowing means that you don't know. We divide the world with our discriminating mind all the time. That's what we're doing all the time. You let go of that discriminating mind so that the two oceans flow together. And we do that over and over and over again, right? Over and over and over again, yeah. You know, we find pleasure within displeasure.

[45:51]

We find displeasure within pleasure. Whatever we do, the opposite is always there. So we have to understand that. We want one side, but we don't want the other. It doesn't work that way. You can't have one without the other. That's just the way it is. Because it's a dualistic world. And we're dualistic people. So we love one side but not the other, which is natural and normal. But it creates our problems. Whatever you choose, the other side is always there. That's why we have karma. We think, oh, that's really great, I'm going to try that, I'm going to do that. But whatever you do, the other side is there. And it wants to be recognized.

[46:52]

So be careful. So basically, our practice is to stop creating karma that causes suffering. We're always creating karma anyway. Roshi, how do you reconcile the Theravada notion of right effort with effortless effort that Zen has? Well, I don't know about reconciling, but at some point you can, unless you're really stuck in something, you can let go of karmic activity. Could you be doing something unwholesome in an effortless way?

[48:10]

Unwholesome in an effortless way? Isn't it possible to apply this notion of effortless effort in doing everything, including unwholesome things? Well, for a while. Yeah, you can do unwholesome things for a while and thinking it's wholesome. until you find that you're on the wrong road. It feels effortless. Yeah. I mean, you know, you can take dope, Oxycontin, and it makes you feel effortless. But it goes over the big road down into the pit, So it's what we call the near enemy.

[49:14]

It looks the same, but it's dangerous. I'm just thinking about what you're asking. What I hear that's instructive in that is that you're bringing up right effort. So right effort is effort that is in line with awakening. And knowing Soji's teaching and our teaching, I would understand the entire context that he's talking about is the context of awakening. So there's no There's nothing to reconcile. Oh, I think I've learned a lot from you, from you being you, rather than you instructing me.

[50:48]

So, and I appreciate that, because I don't think I've had others to kind of get that from. So you're kind of unique in that. So one question I had regarding Zazen, is I came across something recently, which I thought was a little bit more non-abstract than think non-thinking. And it is, I think it's Tilopa's Six Nails. And it goes something like, not recollecting, not imagining, not thinking, and I believe that not thinking is present, what's happening right now, not controlling, not examining, just rest.

[51:53]

And the question I had is, with respect to not controlling, and in Zazen, how we put the, the significance on our body, a certain posture. And let's say my body is probably out of a certain right posture and correcting it, I can't see the reason why I should correct it so that While the thought comes up of correcting the body posture, how does it play with controlling or not controlling? What were you talking about?

[53:16]

Not thinking? In the beginning? Think not thinking? I feel like these six points are a little bit more non-abstract compared to just non-thinking. But non-thinking... But isn't that how you started? Yeah, yeah. Let's go there. Think not thinking is a... of Dogon, let the thinking think. It's the thinking's thinking. It means not leaning one way or the other.

[54:18]

Sitting up straight is a non-duality of thinking and body-mind. They're not two things. So you want straight thinking, you have straight sitting. Straight sitting is the fundamental of straight thinking. I can't account for all the nails, but they're there. They're included. They're all included. We have to stop.

[55:02]

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