I've been down in the mountains south of here, in a monastery, and I left there yesterday because I wanted to come here and meet you. How wonderful to meet you. Today is the 10th anniversary of the ceremony to give the Bodhisattva precepts to two people in this room, both of whom's name is Karen. Congratulations. Down in the mountains, in the monastery, there's a theme for having a practice period, about almost 90-day practice period, not quite.

[01:41]

And the theme of the practice period is something like Zazen as face-to-face transmission. When I was younger, I didn't think of zazen as face-to-face transmission. Now I do. When I was younger, I didn't think of face-to-face transmission as zazen. Now I do. So I tell you about it. Down in the mountains, I'm telling people about it over and over. The head monk of the practice period, many of you know her by the name Yuki, and she gave a talk

[02:59]

as part of her head monk-ship, and she was sort of imitating me, you know. Well, she was kind of like, uh, Satan is face-to-face transmission! And Yuki was also ordained ten years ago, today. She was in that same group. and now she's the head monk of the practice period. Would you remind me to get an okesa for her? Back at Gringoji. And I also want to tell you that our friend Enrika is home, she's home in hospice. So, her illness is not being treated, it's more being cared for in the hospice mode.

[04:14]

But she's still very grateful for the face-to-face transmission. And also the theme for the January intensive at Green Gulch is called the pivotal activity of all Buddhas. Zazen, I think it says face-to-face transmission in Zazen. I agree, face-to-face transmission occurs in zazen, but also face-to-face transmission as zazen, zazen as face-to-face transmission. That's the theme of the upcoming thing at Green Gulch.

[05:18]

Did you meet Sukhdeshi when you were a younger woman? Did he come to your high school? Did you enjoy the face-to-face transmission? Yeah, so she got initiated face-to-face when she was younger, when she was in high school. She graduated from high school though, right? Yeah, congratulations. It may not surprise you if I would suggest that face-to-face transmission is not something that you do by yourself. Does that make sense? It's something that lives or that functions in the meeting of you with

[06:35]

the whole universe. And that meeting can take infinite forms, like you could meet Suzuki Roshi when you're in high school, face to face, and that's pretty nice. But then there's also you meeting the whole universe when you meet him. And whenever you meet anybody, in reality, you're meeting the whole universe in that face. That face is a portal through which you meet the whole universe. Actually, again, Yuki at Don Tassajara, she said, I use this expression for face-to-face transmission, which is men, the Chinese character men, which I said means face, to give, so literally the term that I'm using for face-to-face transmission is face-giving.

[07:45]

And she said, why do you say it's face? Usually that character means mask. So it means face and mask. And you know the word persona means mask, right? So the word that Dogen uses, that the ancestors used for face-to-face transmission is face-giving, or you could say mask-giving. We give this mask. At the same time, we're giving the face of the universe. The mask is the portal to meeting the face before your parents were born. And again, this is not a practice that you do by yourself. You do it with another. But I would also like to point out that

[08:48]

Part of one meaning of zazen that people use is they use the term zazen or sitting meditation for their personal practice. We do have personal practices. We have practices of personal effort. And many of these practices have been transmitted to us face-to-face. And so in the Zen tradition, there's many stories of a face-to-face meeting where one of the people gives the other one a meditation practice that that person can personally do. So one meaning of zazen that people use is they use the word zazen for their personal practice, for what they're doing in their consciousness.

[09:53]

And so the list of personal practices is more or less, unlimited. But I thought I might just give you a few examples of personal practice. For example, when I sit in meditation, I do the personal practice of sitting upright. I do the personal practice of paying attention to the posture of this body. I can also do the personal practice of paying attention to the posture of other bodies. So that's one of the practices I do, and I do it a lot. And I kind of need to, because I need to find the place in the middle

[11:05]

of the flames of my body where I can sit. And if I don't pay attention to my posture, I don't find the place in the middle of the flames, and then I might find sitting intolerably painful. But by paying attention to my body, I find a place where I can sit in the midst of the flames of impermanence and suffering in which my body is sitting, in which I'm sitting in my body. So I do that. And I'm being challenged to do it thoroughly and in each moment, pretty much. That's a personal practice. The Buddha taught that practice. in many scriptures of being mindful of your posture.

[12:10]

Like when the monk practices mindfulness of posture in that when she's standing, she knows she's standing. When she's walking, she knows she's walking. When she's sitting, she knows she's sitting. When she's reclining, she knows she's reclining. the Buddha taught mindfulness of posture. And he said that mindfulness of posture is a direct path to nirvana. This is a personal practice that the Buddha transmitted face-to-face. The transmission face-to-face is not a personal practice. It's not the Buddha's practice separate from the person who's listening. It's not the person who's listening separate from the Buddha. Face-to-face transmission is the Buddha's, the Buddha way.

[13:16]

And in the Buddha way, individual practices are transmitted. For example, mindfulness of posture, which maybe some of you are also practicing when you're here. Have you been practicing mindfulness of your posture? Yeah, so you're making that effort too, personally. Then there's mindfulness of breathing. You can personally be mindful of your breathing. The Buddha also recommended that. Also, you can be mindful of your feelings. The Buddha also recommended that. And so on. You can be mindful of Zen stories. So, one of the famous Zen stories is the story, does a dog have Buddha nature? An ancient teacher was asked, does a dog have Buddha nature?

[14:21]

And the teacher said, Mu! Which means, in Japanese, Mu, means there isn't any or no. So, Since that time, many meditators, so-called Zen meditators, have meditated on Wu, on Mu. They think about Mu while they're sitting. They're doing a personal practice of thinking about that story. And one of the members of this community comes and tells me that, he says, my practice is koan introspection. In other words, he practices mindfulness of Zen stories from traditional collections. I also practice mindfulness of Zen stories.

[15:24]

But the way I often practice it is they come to me and talk to me, like I'm sitting and a Zen story just pops up in my mind and says, hello, and I say, hello, thank you for coming. I usually don't know before I sit down which Zen story is going to come, and usually when they come it's very helpful. And that's a personal practice I have of personally paying attention. Also, there could also be, in sitting meditation, you could practice mindfulness of loving kindness. You could remember thoughts of loving kindness while you're sitting.

[16:28]

That's another personal practice. Now, some people have also some personal practices which they don't necessarily call practices. But in fact, when they're sitting, They are personally paying attention to certain things, and they sometimes don't call paying attention to those things practice. But in fact, that's what they are personally doing when they're sitting on the cushion in the Zen meditation hall. For example, they're personally paying attention to planning. They're personally planning work later in the day. They're planning various travel arrangements. They're wondering which airlines to choose. They're planning menus. They're planning what to say to certain people later in the day. They're doing that in the meditation hall.

[17:30]

And they may actually, when they tell me that, they may be saying, kind of like, I'm sorry, I'm planning. But that's what I'm doing, that's my personal effort. So part of what our life is personal effort. Then there's this face-to-face transmission. And some of those practices of personal efforts in meditation hall, some people call them zazen. So, and I would say, fine, we call them zazen, and you could have in parentheses, personal zazen. Then there's another zazen, in a way, which is called by me, Buddha's zazen. Now Buddha's zazen includes all of the individual zazens.

[18:36]

Buddha's zazen is all the people who are doing koan introspection, all the people who are following their breathing, all the people who are trying to follow their breathing but not following their breathing, all the people who are paying attention to their posture, all the people who are trying to pay attention to their posture but are not paying attention to their posture and angry about their posture and angry at their neighbor who's moving a lot and all the people who are planning, and all the people who are feeling guilty for planning. Buddha Zazen includes all beings. Buddha Zazen is the same practice as all the individual zazens, including all the individual not-zazens.

[19:48]

It's the same practice as whatever individual it might be. For example, me. Buddha's zazen is the same practice as my practice and everybody's practice. That's Buddha's zazen. So I mentioned personal practices, and I support personal practices, and I support personal not practices. And I also just happened to mention, by the way, there's also Buddha's zazen, Buddha's meditation. And that is including all of our individual practices, including when we forget our practice. But when we forget our practice, we're doing something else. whatever it is, and that is the same practice as Buddhists. It's not the same practice as me. I'm doing something else.

[20:53]

I'm working on my posture. But also, I don't just work on my posture. While I'm working on my posture, I remember Buddhasasana. I don't always remember to work on my posture, but when I do, I also want to remember Buddha's zazen. And sometimes I do. And when I do, then I have this thing called awareness of Buddha's zazen, right while I also have awareness of my personal effort to pay attention to this posture. If I'm looking at your posture, then while I'm looking at your posture, that's my personal effort. And while I'm looking at your posture, I also remember that me looking at your posture is the same practice as all beings.

[21:57]

In other words, I remember the Buddha's practice. In other words, I remember face-to-face transmission. which is the way your practice is meeting the practice of all beings face-to-face. down in the mountains, somebody said to me a couple days ago, I had this vision of you having your arms all around the sangha here. And the sangha having their arms all around you. And I said, yeah, right, that's the truth.

[23:10]

That's a vision of the truth. The truth is actually invisible. You can't actually see how much everybody's got their arms around me and how much I have my arms around everybody. But when you have a vision of that, that's like a vision of an invisible, infinite truth. But it's correct, it is true. I do have my arms around the whole Sangha and the whole Sangha does have their arms around me, that is true. But you know, when everybody runs out of the room you might say, well now they don't have your arms around you. They still do, you just can't see it. With your eyes, it's bigger than what your eyes can see. Grandma, you have such big eyes. All the better to see you. So sometimes I use the word Zazen and sometimes other people have used the word Zazen as a synonym for the great way of all Buddhas.

[24:38]

Sometimes Zazen is used as a synonym for unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment. And sometimes it's used as a synonym for personal effort. So there's a little bit of confusion there which we can deal with. We can work with this confusion, can't we? We have a teaching to help us deal with some confusion for using the same word for personal practice that we use for infinite unspeakable, immeasurable interdependence of all beings. It's the same word. And we could have some program to stop using the same word, but I don't think it's going to succeed. I think people are still going to use the word zazen for personal effort, and I'm going to still beat the drum for using zazen, for Buddha's zazen,

[25:52]

And sometimes you may have heard people say, the great way of all Buddhas is zazen. Well, the great way of all Buddhas is buddha-zazen. The great way of all Buddhas is nothing other than giving a face and receiving a face. It's nothing other than a face given and a face received. That's the Buddha way. So the Buddha way is pivoting between giving your face and receiving your face.

[27:10]

Receiving Buddha's face and giving Buddha's face. That pivotal activity is the Buddha way. And one more time, a little differently. A moment of experience is the whole universe meeting the whole universe, giving rise to the whole universe.

[28:16]

Did I say a moment of experience? Now I'll say it again, a moment of zazen. It's the whole universe meeting the whole universe, giving rise to the whole universe. Each moment of experience fully accords with all things and resonates through all time. Each moment of zazen fully accords with all beings and resonates through all time. And there's a call to us to be fully here in this moment.

[29:23]

in the way that it appears. And the way that it appears is a delusion, is a reduced, overly tidy version of the whole universe, like a little baby girl who's not so little. A face is a disambiguated version of the universe. And if we meet that face wholeheartedly, that mask drops away and opens onto the whole universe. In early Buddhism, they taught that experience arises with the meeting of sense organ with sense data, giving rise to sense consciousness.

[30:45]

This is in accord with that teaching. It's just adding in that when your sense organ meets sense data, it's the whole universe as your sense organ meeting the whole universe as sense data, giving rise to the whole universe as sense consciousness. So this way of talking was not so explicitly used in the early centuries of Buddhism. But it is being used in the 21st century version of Buddhism in this room. The basic Buddhist principle is still there. sense data, sense organ, in other words, a sentient being needing sense data, giving rise to sense consciousness.

[32:00]

Yes, it's bringing a little bit more into the picture. In other words, bring all of reality into the picture. All of the entire field of experience is being brought with this sentient being to meet whatever this sentient being meets, giving rise to whatever this sentient being meets as the whole universe in that form, giving rise to the whole universe as awareness in the moment. Okay, that's probably enough.

[33:03]

So, thanks for coming to the meeting. I came up here to meet you and you came here to meet me and we met. We're successful in face-to-face transmission. Congratulations to this group. And another personal practice which we can do is we can personally remember stillness. So the ancestors have transmitted to us the wish that we remember stillness. That we receive it. It's being given to us. and they wished we would receive it, and they told us that they wished we would receive it, and then they wished that we would practice it, and then they wished that we would transmit it.

[34:10]

This is a personal request for us to personally remember something called stillness. And while you're at it, silence. In the midst of our busy daily life, While we're jumping around and talking away, we can still possibly remember stillness and silence. It is possible. The ancestors are asking us to do that in the midst of our daily life. Transmit it in the midst of your daily life, in all the actions of your daily life. Got the wish? Here's the ancestor's wish. I wish that all the Great Assembly will remember stillness and silence, will receive stillness and silence, will practice it and transmit it in all their daily activities in that

[35:20]

personal practice, we're ready to meet face-to-face. We're here. We're not someplace else. We're here, remembering stillness, and we're ready to meet face-to-face. Buddhasasana is living in stillness. In other words, right here. This is where it's living. Okay, so I saw two hands raised and they're connected to bodies. Yes? Dude, you say something like, when mask meets mask. Yeah. There's still face-to-face meetings, just we're not tuned in to that.

[36:24]

When mask meets mask, if you're totally there with that mask, the mask will drop away and you'll see that you're meeting more than just a mask. You are meeting the mask. If you don't respect the mask, the mask is going to just stay on. And you're going to end, because of human consciousness, we have a tendency to think that the universe actually is a lot simpler than it is. So, if you don't accept this simple version you have of the universe, like this mask, then you're going to be stuck in your simple version. Like that saying I put in one of those books, I don't know which one it was, but it was a quote from Kafka, which is something like, you don't have to leave your desk.

[37:31]

I guess Kafka, in order to use asana, he had to have a desk in front of him. you know, with paper and pencil or pen. But we don't have desks. You don't have to leave your seat. We don't require a notepad to sit still, right? But he did. So anyway, Kafka took to himself, you don't have to leave your desk. And I'm not sure exactly how it goes after that, but something like, you jump too far. That's not next. You don't have to leave your desk. Just wait. Don't even wait. Just something. Don't even do that. Just be still. And the world will come before you and take off its mask and roll at your feet in ecstasy.

[38:36]

ecstasy for what? That it got met, that somebody was there and not trying to get anything from it but just there and the universe will come before you and take its mask off and it will be so happy to meet you. Yeah, your simplified version is you're in this room, and you're feeling this way, and the desk looks like this, and that person looks like that. This is a simplified version of what's going on. This is like a coherent version of the universe, which our unconscious cognitive processes like to make the universe into coherent things. So if you put in front of human beings random numbers, a lot of them will see a pattern, and there isn't one.

[39:46]

Sometimes there are patterns and we do see them and that's very useful. So we got a pattern creator that generally puts patterns on things whether there's a pattern or not. And when we can't, and if we're having trouble putting patterns on things, we feel nervous and we just keep working until we can put a pattern on. You just keep showing people, most people just keep showing random numbers long enough, they will not be able to resist seeing a pattern. It's like, if people look at this wall long enough, pretty soon they'll see a puppet show. And once they get into it, it's kind of like, oh, what a relief from this random surface. Now I got a puppet show to walk. Or some other story. We put stories on something, and sometimes there is a pattern for the basis of the story, but we put it on even if there's no basis. This is our delusion.

[40:52]

We meditate on our delusion. We let our delusion be. We practice compassion towards our delusion, and then our delusion will take its mask off. We meet our delusions face to face. We're not trying to get the thing we're meeting to be different. We're trying to learn how to let it be. And when we let it be, it'll take its mask off. and we'll have the meeting that we came here to have. And because we can be kind to our delusions, we can tolerate reality. And it's hard to be really kind to our delusions, but if we practice it, we can tolerate meeting the Dharma. Yes? I have a belief that as long as I believe there is a delusion, then there is a Buddha.

[42:07]

Or if there is a Buddha, there is a delusion. Well, can we stop just there for a second? It is true that whenever you believe anything, there is a Buddha. The Buddha is practicing with you no matter what you're thinking. But if you change what you just said you're believing to something different, Buddha would be with you then, too. Yes. So then you mentioned about the personal effort. Yeah. And I also believe, as long as there's this idea of a person and personal effort, and that person and that effort thinks as Buddha is the totality of everything, and that person is not the totality, as long as he believes that, then still this separation and this duality will continue. Yeah, I disagree with you.

[43:10]

Now we have a disagreement. Okay? Ready? So, you said something, I think, like, as long as this person's thinking, and then X, whatever you want to say, that there's some kind of like alienation from Buddha. Okay, so number one, Buddha, at the moment that we're thinking, however we're thinking, in the moment we feel alienated or whatever, in the moment of however we're thinking, Buddha is practicing with us. There's no way you can think that Buddha will not be practicing with you. You cannot get away from Buddha practicing with you. The next thing is... I'm not saying Buddha is not space.

[44:18]

I won't say Buddha is not space. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm saying Buddha is your practice. Whatever you're doing, Buddha is your practice, and Nettie's practice, and Audrey's practice. Okay, so we're all set. And then you can get into the details, which are whatever way you're thinking, with the help of all beings, you're thinking it, wholeheartedly. If you try to think just on your own, you're not going to reach wholeheartedly thinking. But fortunately, everybody's practicing with you, so you can actually think wholeheartedly. And when you think wholeheartedly, you think not thinking. Isn't your wholehearted thinking, does that already include everyone?

[45:26]

Exactly! Any kind of thinking you're doing already includes everyone, but if you don't join that thinking and let everybody help you join that thinking, then you might think that your thinking is this way and no other way. In other words, be stuck in your thinking. Say again? But actually, when you think wholeheartedly, you realize your thinking is not thinking. That's the way a Buddha thinks. They think not thinking. Because they're practicing together with everybody, and that's really the way we are too, but we have to... This is our mask. Our thinking is our mask. We have to fully inhabit our mask, our thinking. That's our job. our job is to be wholeheartedly thinking the way we're thinking so that we can be free of the way we're thinking and realize that our thinking is not thinking.

[46:34]

That's the kind of thinking Buddha does. The Buddha doesn't like The Buddha doesn't do not thinking. The Buddha does thinking, not thinking. The Buddha doesn't do not thinking. The Buddha does not thinking, thinking. And thinking, not thinking. The Buddha is in this pivotal relationship with all beings. So there's no place to abide in personal effort. But if we don't take care of personal effort, ignoring the fact that the whole universe is helping us take care of personal effort. We really are wholehearted. Let's accept all the help that we're getting to be that way. Which is, it's what we call a full-size job. It's the whole universe working as us. So I have to often tell you, my name, my name's Enki. which means the whole works.

[47:37]

So this Suzuki girl, she gave me a name which means the whole works. That's my name. My name is the whole works. How come I got that name? Usually your name should be Zenki too, but it's not. It's my name. And the whole works means the whole universe, but also it means the whole universe works. And the way it works is each one of us. But it's hard for us to accept this big working. Right? We're having trouble. But that's our assignment. That's our assignment. All the horrors in the universe are making us. And all the courage and all the heroic standing up in the middle of all those horrors, that's also making us.

[48:41]

So we can be serene in the middle of all those horrors and show other people that they also can be serene in the middle of horrors and they can walk forward with courage and carefulness and intelligence and let go of freaking out. So recently I just heard about this person. We should know we have heroes in our culture. This culture where we have slavery and had slavery. We also have heroes. And the one I just found out about, his name is Donald Hollowell. O-L-L-O-W-E-L-L, Mr. Hollowell. And he's a person who walked through the flames of racism in this country to protect his people from injustice.

[49:50]

And he just, he didn't lose it. He just stayed present, and upright, and diligent, and intelligent, and he showed, and he brought that to the white people, and they could see it. But his people, his black people, watched him do that. And they saw it was possible, in a hopeless situation, to be a great person. and we aspire to be such a great person. To live in the middle of the flames of this world and to show people that we can sit there calmly, courageously, and we can ask questions and make statements about what's going on in order to promote justice.

[51:06]

I'll be right with you. I think Ana was a little ahead of you. Can you wait? Yes, Ana. I was wondering if it's the same thing that you're saying, I had that thought when I read today, how you can't really do zazen. You with the aid of the whole universe can make personal effort in zazen. And then there's another zazen, which is the way you and the whole universe are doing zazen. And the way everybody else's zazen is the same zazen as your zazen, that also you cannot do by yourself. But with our support, you're able to make a personal effort. I was thinking, is it a thing in Zen where you say, You can't do zazen, but zazen can do you.

[52:23]

You can't do experience, but experience does do you. I mean, what we are is our experience. The posture of zazen is just so powerful. It's so powerful, yeah. It's so powerful. Everything is so powerful because everything includes everything. Lying down is also really powerful. Every posture is really powerful, because every posture includes the whole universe, and every posture is included in the whole universe. So why do we do this upright sitting? I would say, tradition. It's a Zen tradition. Why do we tell Zen stories? Well, because it's a Zen tradition to tell Zen stories. But that doesn't mean we don't tell other stories, it's just we keep the family stories together so that we hold the family together.

[53:30]

Sometimes it's hard to hold families together unless you have family stories. And we need families, we need a Sangha. And sometimes in the Sangha people have stories which are not family stories and they're If you've got a strong sangha, you can have stories that aren't family stories. But in order to have a sangha, you need some family stories to keep the family together, and you need the family together to be able to tolerate the not-family stories. Not too long ago, I said to my daughter that I have some stories to tell, to my grandson and I thought it'd be good to tell him because pretty soon I won't be able to tell him anymore. And if he listens to him now, he'll remember them and then he'll have some family stories.

[54:35]

And then she sent me an article a few days later and the article was about this... written by this guy who was telling a story about dinner at his house. So they have dinner and some families have this idea, you know, it might be good if the people in the family actually had dinner together. That might be good. Kind of like maybe to help the family be a family, to be together occasionally, like at dinner. So they get this family together and some people are there to eat and some people are there to eat and talk to the other people in the family. But some of the people in the family do not want to talk about family stories. They want to talk about stories that are on their devices, on their iPads and iPhones. These are by and large not family stories, but they're interested in them.

[55:40]

And if you ask them, to come away from their not-family stories to have some family stories like, how was school today? And could I talk to you about something related to our family? They don't want to put down their not-family stories. They talk about boring family stories. So he said pretty soon nobody was at the table. And then he says, how Do you hold a family together? And he said, with good stories, interesting stories, they hold the family together. Generally speaking, families like sanghas have a tendency to disperse. It's a big effort to keep a group of people together. But things can happen when you have a sangha that do not happen when you don't.

[56:49]

And things happen when you have a family that do not happen when you don't. There's some virtues to having a family or a sangha. How do you hold it together when people are interested in so many other stories and do not want to spend their time listening to family stories? You've got to have good stories that can compete with the internet. about your family, that's a big challenge. It is, and we need to meet that challenge. So, we have these Zen stories which are actually pretty interesting and they made it into the 21st century now, but they're at risk of being lost. all these good stories, because they've got such heavy competition. So that's why we get together here and tell stories to hold this community together.

[57:52]

Otherwise, the other stories will take us away. And then, when we have the story, then we can realize the story is not a story. We need a sangha to realize these stories are not stories. But I cannot overcome my stories by myself. I need a sangha. And in order to have a sangha, I have to have stories to overcome the stories. Everybody's walking around with stories, but not too many people have been liberated from their stories. like stories of injustice. They're stuck in them. We need a sangha, and we need a sangha which has people in it who know how to be upright with stories to show us how to be free of stories. So this is a story of horrible injustice. How can you relate to it to show people a path of life in the face of such stories?

[58:54]

We have examples, but we also need a sangha. And that's why they said when he was in the courtroom, Mr. Holloway was a civil rights lawyer. He was talking to the white power structure, and he was very good. But he was also talking to the people in the balcony to show them how he could stand up to being disrespected and ignored by the power structure, and how he just continued to be courageous and smart and calm and energetic, he showed them that it was possible. Because he knew that he needed a sangha and they need a sangha. A sangha to work for justice and civil rights. And the work goes on, right? It goes on. And we need stories. about Mr. Holloway, and about Mr. Bodhidharma, and so on, to keep these sanghas together.

[60:01]

And we've got them. So we tell them. And Sonia? Pardon? Go for it. Your description of family and sanghas And they have a ring of exclusivity to them. And so, you know, it also seems like when we were just saying, like, ergo, the sangha is to go beyond the sangha. Same with, I would say, same for family. Family is to go beyond family and make more families. Sangha is to go beyond Sangha and make more Sanghas. Sangha is not to be trapped in Sangha and attached to Sangha. People don't need a Sangha to be attached to their situation. We need Sanghas to be free and we need family to be free of family.

[61:07]

Otherwise, we're trapped in our personal stories of family with no family to interact about. We're just trapped in our stories of tragedy and abuse. So, both Sangha and family are vehicles for transcendence. And, you know, that's what I would say. What do you have to say? Yeah, I guess I feel like it gets articulated less than it seems, like a really important earlier step. And we need a sangha in order to tolerate dropping sectarianism. Like in the monastery some people honestly come to me and say they're afraid of letting go of Zen forms.

[62:20]

They love Zen forms so much they want to hold on to them. So Zen monastery is a place for people to like engage in Zen forms so they can let go of them. But we need a Sangha to let go of them, like really let go of them rather than throw them out the window. we know how to throw things out the window, but how do you take care of something and let go of it? We need help to get that one. Like you may think, well, I'm doing this form, the Zen form, which I love, and I'm totally not attached to it, and then somebody comes up and says, you know, I think maybe you are attached to it, and then, yeah, and maybe they, oh yeah, you're right, thank you so much, and now you're not attached. So we need a Sangha to approach the vortex of the pivotality of our life together, and we need a Sangha to help us deal with what happens when we do pivot, because we might like to run away from the life we get when we actually enter the pivot.

[63:22]

And most families, most biological families, cannot actually handle the full pivotality, but they get the family members ready to go to a place that's got a big enough sangha to handle it, to make a container for it. Otherwise, we jump out of that intensity. With that container, people say, where are you going? I thought you wanted to be in the container. I don't want to be in the container anymore. But when you can say that, you're just kind of back in the container. But you needed that question to wake up to that. If you didn't, you can't get away. So Buddha needs Sangha to support the exercise of Buddha. Yes? I think my question is a little bit linked here. I feel like you've been presenting in a way that's very positive, and encouraging, and Buddha's us, I'm thinking, what would be not Buddha or awakening Zazen?

[64:33]

I've also heard you could sit for 20 years and waste your time. There's nothing other... I said that? Somebody's probably said that. I mean, I might have. If there is Buddha Zazen, it must also have its opposite. Yeah, Buddha Zazen includes all suffering. How can I be a son of a Jew and not be doing Buddha Zazen? Say it again, how could I, Sonia... So you think you look great. And maybe Ninan thinks she looks great.

[65:38]

But I might think, Sonia, you look like you think you look great. That kind of thinking, whatever you was, that kind of thinking is the same practice. You don't have to stop doing that kind of thinking to realize Buddha. If Buddha was you, Buddha would be doing exactly that kind of thinking, except more so. There's no way to get away from Buddha, and no way for Buddha to get away from you, no way for Buddha to get away from me, no matter how evil I am, no matter how arrogant I am, Buddha can't get away from me, and I can't get away from Buddha. But I could be arrogant and say, this is Zazen. And people could say, yeah, it looks good. And good-looking sadhana might be helpful at a certain point to attract some people to try it.

[66:46]

For me, there was some pretty... I think there's a picture in that building? Yeah, would you bring it? So I put a picture up that was a picture of somebody doing sadhana and I thought it was beautiful. A beautiful picture of a beautiful human performance. And it's... And then in the original magazine article, underneath said, in deepest thought, and I thought, yes! That beautiful posture looks like deepest thought to me. I really don't know. I really do not know. So here's the picture of somebody looking good. And this attracted me to Zen. Show it to those people up there. Spin away, Sonia. Pivot away. Pivot away, Sonia. Yeah. I think actually the etymology of sin was, I have not been able to verify this etymology, but I heard that one etymology of sin is related to the root of sunder, that sin is to split or separate.

[68:34]

So let's say we got some splitting or separating, okay, and that causes suffering. Let's say Buddha is fully accepting that suffering. Not eliminating it, but fully accepting it. If you're not doing it, that's suffering. And Buddha completely accepts you being that way. Buddha completely accepts my suffering, your suffering. The full acceptance of my suffering is Buddha. But if I include, if I accept mine but not yours, that's not quite there yet.

[69:40]

So it isn't just fully accepting mine, it's fully accepting mine and yours and everybody's. I'm going for that Buddha. The Buddha that fully accepts all suffering and causes of suffering. Delusion. And this is a difficult thing. Yes? So is everything the Buddha way? Is everything the Buddha way? So, the Buddha fully accepts suffering. What about not accepting suffering? The Buddha accepts not accepting suffering. Is not accepting suffering the Buddha way? No. The Buddha accepts suffering. But the Buddha accepts not suffering. The Buddha is the same practice as the person who doesn't accept suffering. But not accepting the suffering is not the Buddha way.

[70:42]

Right. That complexity is wonderful. Last year, you said this thing, which I've used throughout my life. You said, here's what I remember. And I said, here you are at point A. And here's point B, kind of the path, enlightenment. And here you are starting at A. And you go along your life, blah, blah, blah. You're heading toward point B. And then all of a sudden, you wake up, and you find yourself on point C. Again, this might be Tracy's version, not yours. But then you're in point C, and you think, I knew it. I'm not a good practitioner. I'm a mess. It didn't work. And what I think you said is, When you get to that point C, and you then walk back to this line between A and B on the path, the whole thing is being on the path. Being on the path isn't going from A to B. It includes C. So that makes sense to me. Yeah, except you don't have to walk back.

[71:43]

Just recognizing it? Point C is already included. OK. Now here's what I'm asking about what Tony's bringing up. Is there a point C? D? I think we got a point D. Here we are. Point D. Well, if you're serious, is there a point A? If you're serious, is there a Buddha?

[72:50]

And the answer is, the Buddha is nothing in and of herself or itself. So is there a point A? Well, there's no point A in and of itself. Is Buddha understanding that? Yes. And is that understanding of that something in and of itself? No. Is there such a thing as point B? Well, there's no such thing as point B all by itself, in and of itself. There's no point C in and of itself. There's no point D in and of itself. If you're going to be serious. But there is an aspiration to walk the path of compassion. There is that aspiration. However, there's no aspiration like that in and of itself. And therefore, if you jump out of that aspiration into not that aspiration, there's really no not that aspiration in and of itself.

[73:53]

Just like there was no aspiration in and of itself. So that not aspiration is completely included in this aspiration. This aspiration is the aspiration for compassion and wisdom. Wisdom is that there's no aspiration in and of itself. So it includes all aspirations. There's no aspirations, it includes. So this is the Buddha, who is nothing in and of herself, including everything, and along the path saying, I don't include that, but that again is the way you are at that moment which is included. There's no way to get away from Buddha, and no way for Buddha to get away from you. And even if you think it, say, well, I succeeded in thinking I got away from Buddha. So I did succeed. I am away from Buddha. That's the way you're with Buddha. And that's the Buddha.

[74:56]

And the Buddha's with you that way. No matter what you are, you cannot ever make Buddha disgusted with you. Sorry. You can be disgusted with Buddha. That's fine. Oh, the dog story, oh yeah. So, a monk asked Zhaozhou, does dog have buddha nature? Zhaozhou say, no, or doesn't have any. Pardon? Well, on another occasion, a monk asked Zhaozhou, does a dog have buddha nature? And he said yes. Does that work for you? Okay, there you go.

[75:59]

You're still in the family. Okay, well, some time ago I was thinking, this talk hasn't been very long. And now I feel like, I think it's long enough. So anyway, thank you for coming to the meeting. May our intention equally extend to every being and place. With the true merit of Buddha's way, beings are numberless. I vow to save them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them.

[77:03]

Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it.

[77:20]

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