I usually tell people that in this practice we do a lot of bowing. And then they say, and then it shows them how we bow. Fits your fingers, even with the bottom of your nose and all that kind of stuff. What was that? I need to... Maybe what you want, you want to fly. You want to take off. And some people are like this, you know. This is good. It's OK, man, but... We don't need that. To just pop, you don't need that. So-so. So-so. So when we approach our cushion, when we enter the zen-do, we bow.

[01:05]

And when we approach our cushion, first bow to the cushion. And then turn to the right. Bow. In Zen Do, we always turn to the right, whatever we're doing. That's so that we don't bump into each other. There's no deep meaning. No deep meaning. It's just, if we all turn to the same way, we don't bump into each other. It's like clockwork. Clocks go that way too. They don't bump into each other. Righty tighty, lefty loosey. And sometimes I tell them about bowing during service, but I usually do that after.

[02:08]

Does anyone get as far as service? Yeah. Sure, I show them how to make that big bow. I usually show them how to bow. So you start. The first thing I do is talk about it, because that's the first thing we do. Yes, we bow. So, to show them the procedure as we do it is the best way to remember what to do. So, I've just shown from the door to the kitchen. sit on a cushion. And when you sit on a cushion, you should find, not sit fully on a cushion, but on a pathway on a cushion.

[03:09]

Or, you can, after you are used to sitting, whether you find your own position, but don't sit all the way on the cushion. Because the cushion's purpose is to help you move your back straight. And give you some support through the back. If you sit too far back on the cushion, then it doesn't suit that purpose. So you should feel the sides of the cushion so that you're not sitting on one side or the other side, but you're sitting right in the center of the cushion. And the next thing is the position of your legs. And then I usually start out with the full lotus and work down. Because where people start usually is at the bottom.

[04:15]

So rather than start at the bottom and go to the top, I start at the top and go to the bottom. And then it eliminates most of the people I say do the full lotus. Put your right foot on your left thigh, and your left foot on your right thigh, like this. But don't do this, unless, this is not, you don't have to do this. This is the full lotus position. The half lotus position, put your left foot on your right thigh, like this. And you can either put your knee down, Well, we say put your left foot on your right foot. But I switch my legs. It's okay. But when you're giving Zazen instruction, after you've been sitting a while, then you can do various things.

[05:18]

But for Zazen instruction, put your left foot on your right foot. As opposed to just watching someone. They're all doing it. They're all trying to do it. They do what they can do. So we can do that too. I mean, all of us can do it. Whatever you can't do, don't do it. And you can't do it. Right, don't do this. So this is the half boat. The left boat on the right side. Then there are... Then, another easy position is called the knees position, which is not across the legs, but one in front of the other.

[06:26]

And this is a good position because it's stable. You go to your knees are down, and you're behind. So you have a triangle. And the triangle position is the stable position, no matter what. Notice, do this. And that stays on? No, that's Burmese. This is Burmese. So this is Burmese. And if you can't get any of these positions, you just cross the legs, campfire style. You just cross your ankles. And your knees are up. So this is a good way to start. If you can't get your knees down, It is a good way to begin. It's not as stable because, you know, in the meantime, then it's a good way to begin.

[07:29]

Well, the thing is old. The original is old. So, I don't tell people about Caesar. Unless somebody says, well, I can't do this. If they say, well, I can't do this either, then I say, you can sit in this position. But I don't like to tell people that that's the way they should start out. I would say, try doing this, even though it's really difficult. This is a divine one, even if it's really hard for you. Because it is. For most people, it's hard, and if they look at it, And if they can't do it, then you can sit Cesar. I usually end up showing you Cesar. But I say, this is an alternative. But not to do it if you can't do this. Try this first before doing that.

[08:35]

So then I say, take the position that's easiest. Take the easiest position. Because even though you may be able to sit in full lotus, with your legs, this does in periods of 40 minutes. So the main thing is to be able to sit for 40 minutes, not just sit in the lotus position. So the lotus position is most stable, but it's for more advanced people. You have to compare yourself to somebody else. A lot of times people will start comparing themselves to say, well, they're going this way, so I should So I tell people not to compare their posture with someone else's posture, but just to do what they can do. So if other people take the position that's easiest for them, that they can sit for the longest period of time, and it doesn't matter what period, and not to try and progress quickly.

[09:44]

So then, once you have established the posture of your legs, put your hands like this, and in order to loosen up your body, to lean all the way to the right, from here, from your wrist, And again to the right, but not so far. And again to the left, but not so far.

[11:07]

Concentrate on what you're doing. And to the right. And again, each time a little less. Maybe sitting up straight. And this will stretch out your body. Then, don't do this. Lean forward, arching your back. It's like a kind of complex move. Because you're arching your back and moving forward at the same time. See if you can do that. That's right. Keep your head up. Sit up, slowly, sit up, sit up. And then your head should be up with your hair. And you feel it, just smother it up, push forward.

[12:10]

Then just lower your head. But see, don't lower your head like this. Lower your head, rotate. And then lift up your sternum. And you can feel that right here in the middle of your back some pressure. Especially if you lift up your sternum and stretch your wrist. This is the posture of loving. This is the posture that you should try to maintain. And to keep your head on top of your shoulders is important. Because your head is like a big stone on top of a stick, which is the root of it. And if it's leaning forward, it puts a lot of strain on your back.

[13:15]

It's not much of a raise, but it's significant. So, then, to form your mudra, you move your fingers together for the left palm. And then with your thumbs, you form a circle with the tops of your thumbs. So that your movement is independent, but not touching your abdomen.

[14:26]

And then, with your teeth together, with the tip of your tongue touching the back of your teeth, close your teeth, you can put your teeth together in the back of your mouth, but this way there doesn't have to be any teeth that match up in the back of your mouth. And breathe naturally through the nose.

[15:29]

But what I do actually, before I do this, I haven't done this for so long. I usually tell people how to prime their breath. Because they say your breath should be deep. Your breath should take place down here. And when you sit dozen, you let your mind follow the inhaling and exhaling of your breath from here. So when you inhale, your lower abdomen expands. When you exhale, your lower abdomen contracts. This is how you should follow the breath as the rising and falling of your lower abdomen. So if your breath is shallow, or if you're not used to breathing deeply, Then, when your hands are up, before you put your hands in your mudra, you inhale through your mouth like this.

[16:37]

I'm making a noise so you can hear me, but do a sound and let this expand. When you exhale, you feel it contract, and when you feel it contract, you push out all the air. And then when you've pushed out all the air, push some more until the front and the back come together. Feel like you're putting it in the back. And then take another breath. Let this whole lower abdomen expand. And then just push the air out. And then after three breaths or so, just let everything be normal. Close your mouth and let the breath in. And this should be primed so that your breathing is deep. The natural breath is deep. And then put your hand on your knee.

[17:43]

And adjust your posture. When we sit, we keep our eyes open. It's not necessary to focus on something in particular, but the eyes are just open. And you don't try to see something, but you just make sure you see it. And the gaze should be a little bit down, straight ahead. If you tell people to look five feet in front of them or something like that, you know, then when they start to gaze down, their head starts to go forward. So, I think if you look more straight ahead, then it's easier to keep your head on top of your shoulders. And then I say, in order to align yourself, your nose, you should feel your nose is in line with your navel.

[18:52]

side to side. And then I say, and then your shoulder, your ears should be aligned with your shoulders. This is an alignment backward and forward. So, this is the hard one. It's not so hard to keep your nose aligned with your navel, but it's much more difficult to keep your ears aligned with your shoulders. Because people have a tendency to let their head roll forward So, you know, in order to counter that tendency to keep pushing the lower back forward and lifting up the sternum, it's like this becomes like a rubber ball. It has a kind of cushioned feeling. You know, if you really sit like this and make an effort to sit up, then you get a lot of that kind of cushion, you know.

[20:06]

And that's really very comfortable. That's the most comfortable posture. It may be difficult at first, but in the end it's the most comfortable posture. It's difficult because most people have lousy postures. That's right. They're not lousy, they're, you know, more relaxed and slouch. Right. What you're doing is re-establishing your natural posture, or untraditioned posture. I don't know if you remember the philosophy, I do have postures that I remember, but it's untraditioned posture. So, it's not materialized in Zazen anymore. So this is the posture of Zazen, and the eyes open, and that normal breathing. And during Zazen, you go over all the points of your posture, the neutral, the posture of your back.

[21:17]

keeping your head on top of your shoulders. And the balance is what you're looking for. Balance and symmetry, rather than muscular effort. Although there is a certain amount of muscular effort, but as the, as your sitting becomes mature, you become more refined, you feel refined, just the right the right amount of effort to do, the smallest amount of effort to do the most amount of work. So you can concentrate more and more on the lower back, which is where the effort should be. And then you can let go of all the tenseness in your shoulders. Let go of the tenseness in your arms. And you can let go of the tenseness in your upper back. And you can let go of the tenseness in your lungs.

[22:33]

And then when your posture is established, then you can let your attention go to your breath. You can let your attention follow the rising and falling of your lower abdomen as your breath. You don't have to try to control your breath. the bottom of the bed is just one of the elements of our posture. And during Zazen, our attention should be directed to our posture and reading. That's always to think about. But during the process of the many thoughts So when thoughts come, you let the thought appear in consciousness.

[23:51]

And then, without standing on the thought, you're developing it. You just let it go, and come back to posture and breathing. And you become aware of this thought. Just let go of the thought and come back, bring your attention back to posture and breathing. So in Zazen, you're continually coming back to posture and breathing. Whenever the mind is carried off by a thought, let go of the thought and come back to posture and breathing over and over and over again. And don't get angry. Don't feel guilty. Don't feel this is wrong, don't have thoughts. Thinking is a natural process, but our thinking is directed. The body and the mind, the purpose of zazen is to harmonize the body and the mind.

[24:57]

So the thought of sitting is the thought that we want to hear, is our directed thought. The thought of zazen. all of their thoughts are extraneous, even if they're good thoughts. Even if they're wonderful, enlightening revelations, they're still just extraneous to this. So the most important thing is just to be present. Fully present. And if you have pain in your legs, just let the pain be there. And don't fight the pain. welcome the pain yet, and don't grasp it until I'm objective.

[26:09]

That's just the way it is. That's the feeling. And then people say, well, is it okay that I'm crossing my legs? Is it true that it becomes more uncomfortable? And I say, yes, it's okay. But at some point, if you continue to sit, you will It comes to a point where you won't want to uncross your legs. You'd rather not cross your legs, even if dead. That's not one of those extraneous thoughts. And that's not one of those extraneous thoughts. And that's a demon, isn't it? You might say. Take a breath at the beginning like this. You said breathe in through your mouth and then exhale through your mouth.

[27:13]

You don't have to exaggerate like that. If you do, that means that you're fully involved in that breath. So it's okay to do it this way. It's your heal. But silently. So it's okay to have that much involvement because that really puts you into regret. You can also do it If your breath starts getting bumpy, and you can't find where your breath is for some reason, then you can always start over again that way. That's a good way to re-establish your breathing.

[28:15]

The point of being aware of your thoughts and being aware of the pain in the neck, both in answering questions and also because I punish you so much now, the question comes up, there are some thoughts that make you angry, some thoughts come up and make you scared. And I find it useful to be aware not only of the thought, even rejecting it, and that if there's a judgment, to be aware of the judgment. But also be aware of how my body is, that is in addition to the pain, the nagging. I usually clench my teeth in this stance, and I tend to be aware of the thought and be aware of the body's position. Yeah, to be aware of other body sensations, you know, if you're clenching your teeth, be aware of that, and then see if you can control that, that reaction.

[29:50]

Or then, same with, you know, our reactions usually tend to either tense up our muscles of the back, When you're pushing your thumbs together, that means anxiety and tenseness. And when it's like this, it means synonymous concentration. So this Nutra is the barometer for how I'm feeling. And then the other one is the shallow breathing. Shallow breathing is caused by anxiety or fear. So when any of these characteristics come up to consciously let go of them. If there's shallow breathing, take a deep breath and get the breath down.

[30:53]

And if there's tenseness in the shoulders, to know that and drop the shoulders. If there's tenseness in the upper arms or your back, to be consciously say to yourself, Keep the posture and let go of the tenseness. And you should get to be part of Zazen actually, is when you check over the points of posture to check the tenseness. Am I being tense? Is there tenseness in my shoulder? Just anywhere, just let go of the tenseness, just as a usual thing that you did. see how open you can be, or how lack of tenseness you can see, to see, to allow any kind of tenseness to go, to leave, and without being lax.

[32:00]

Keep the form. You know, the form becomes like a kind of skeleton, a shell, but there's nothing in it. There's no solidity to it, in the sense of, we feel our solidity through our tension. So, when there's not much tenseness, there's tension and tenseness. Tension, everything is held in tension, otherwise it doesn't exist, but everything is not tense. Tenseness is the extra tension that you don't need. So we have a lot of, often we have a lot of tenseness, which is tension, it's not necessary. It's only the body grasping itself because there's nothing else to grasp. Or no place else to put that anxiety, or fear, or something.

[33:09]

So we tend to grab onto ourselves. Because what else can you do? The only thing you can do is just let go and be it. But if this is running away, how can I get out of this? Our natural reactions are the opposite of what we should be doing. You have to kind of turn yourself around and instead of tensing up, let go of something. that you fear or have anxiety about, fears, which goes for feelings of fear, or feelings of lust, or feelings of anger, enticement. You just let that feeling arise without grabbing onto it and without pushing it away.

[34:14]

Actually, if you do noise, if you noise a tension, you have a tensional channel. So it goes away by itself. If I try to push it away, it doesn't work. No, you can't push it away. You can't get rid of something. So you don't try to get rid of the thoughts. You don't try to get rid of the feelings. You just keep coming back, keep constant breathing. In other words, this is what I've been doing. And you just come back, and the thoughts will maybe follow you there, right? But, just let him be there. Let the feelings be there. But, without taking him up, without pushing him away. This is very important. Probably the most important thing. This. Just let him be. But, see this is the passive side. There are two sides. You don't have to tell everybody this. You know, this is beyond fail. It lies in instruction, because most people don't even come back. He was feeling so close to his husband.

[35:22]

I thought it was just in case. That's the truth. But, you know, if people ask you questions and it gets deeper, you know, you have to keep going. Well, it often does. It often does, right. Like, I always, people always ask us, well, why are you bowing? Right, that's a good question. Well, to me it kind of comes off as I'm just minimizing it, but I mean, that's sort of what I think in my mind when I try and say that, well, we're just battling it. My inclination is to say, yeah, that's it. That's it. But sometimes it's met with like, sure, sure. You can say that. You can also say, it's just a great ad. Or you can say, we bother ourself.

[36:23]

And then you say, but what is ourself? You can answer that question. We also ask, why do we, you know, what is it, what are all these, what is the job? Why do we, why does it have to be so difficult? Why does it have to be difficult? Why does it have to be this way? Well, you know, it's like when you study chemistry, why does it have to be so? Or when you study medicine, why does it have to be so? As you answer the question with a question, you know, they ask you another question. I tell him to ask a priest. It's a lot!

[37:25]

Well, there's a lot of things you can say. You can say it's because of arrogance. And they won't come back with anything, no. That's probably good at shutting them up, it's true. It doesn't have to be this way, it's just the way we do it. This is one way. Also, a lot of people are interested in getting some instruction to carry on this practice at home. The privacy, the vowing thing is not something that they necessarily need to do, although it's nice to have it. I'd say, if you sit at home, that would be a good thing. Even if you oversleep, and you only have five minutes, Take your time to put the cushion down and if you feel you want to share, bow to it, and take the usual amount of time to get settled in, if you only want feedback.

[38:30]

I tend to bow. I do also. I tell them, to me, bowing is just a way of offering ourselves. we bow our cushion, you know, because we're about to, we're depending on the cushion, we're counting on it, you know, so it's just out of respect to all things. But for most people, you know, it's like they haven't done the bowing yet, so it's just something that's in their head. You know, it's interesting, the little group that I have at my house, I haven't been teaching people to bow and most of the people who come have had instructions someplace else and have sat here or have sat in some formal place. There's one woman who has done that very little and she came in last week and she said, I want you to teach me how to bow. She said, it doesn't feel right to just come in and sit down.

[39:33]

And she said, I want to know how to do it and I want to know how to do it. do it, not just out of some confidence or some... I wanted to apply it. So that was very interesting. Yeah. It also prepares the mind for the activity. The form creates the atmosphere for the gender of The zendo in the form, the zendo creates the atmosphere for something. When I introduced the thing about the vow in the beginning, I also said that we do a lot of the vowing, and that in the zendo there's sort of a certain way that we do everything, a certain way of altering everything. I think that's part of the purpose of this instruction, is to sort of awaken people. That's what I'm talking about.

[40:35]

So, there's the active side and the passive side. The passive side is just a letter you can read. And the active side is to put your energy into Zazen, into the form of sitting. So, some people emphasize one, you know, or the other. So emphasizing the passive side is, you know, people sitting there, okay, accepting everything, but there's no energy in it. And then some people will really over-insert themselves into that. And they're tense. And they'll get tired out very quickly. And there's no acceptance in it. So if you find the balance between the passive side and the active side, it's very important. And that's what we're always looking for, is that balance. So every moment of Zazen is looking for that balance. the body and mind, and balancing the breath, and harmonizing the body and the breath, and balancing the upper body on one pinpoint on which it all balances.

[42:01]

There's plenty to do, I tell you. So when you're waking for 10 hours in Zazen, to continually adjust in this minor tune, because the body is always changing. Posture is always changing. As soon as you have perfect posture, it's changed already. So it's continually changing. finding, continually re-establishing your posture. Continually re-establish the posture. I can show you how to do adjustment for posture. It's very simple. There's major adjustment and there's minor adjustment.

[43:10]

Now this is only during Da Vinca instructions. If we have to be sitting up front, I'm not going to tell you when to do this. I'm just saying when you have occasion to do this. I don't want to talk about when right now. I want to talk about when you have occasion to do this. And say you were smoking over. That's it. There are two points. There are two points. at the small of the back and the spine and the other chin.

[44:13]

And you go... They may not know what to do. They do. Oh no, they do. Unless, this is automatic, unless they resist. That's it. That's all you have to do. Push in the smaller back and push the chin down. And then you can make a minor adjustment. But to count behind somebody and manipulate them doesn't work usually. It's a patchwork. Unless their posture is really good, then you can do minor manipulation. But this is the major manipulation. That's all you have to do, in most cases. Just get people to put the lower back forward and the chin in. And then your fingers meet in line.

[45:15]

So, if you do correct people's posture, you can do it that way. And then, if their head is to the side, or if they're sitting a little bit off, you can adjust them. Do you check people's eyes or... I mean, what do you do? Sometimes you crawl up there and tell them to... Oh, I check their mudra. Okay. I check their mudra. I tell them not to hold their things like this. Okay. Yeah, I see that. What if they're not sitting... What if they're sitting off to one side of the cushion so that it's hopeless? If it's hopeless, then I tell them to sit up And I adjust the cushion. I say, sit up a minute. You get them to move. I get them to move. Or if they're sitting, like if there's some new person and they're sitting on a cushion and they're doing this. What about some old person?

[46:19]

That means their knees are higher than their waist. So you can't hold your back straight if your knees are higher than your waist. So I go in, I've got a couple of cushions, and I say, And I put the cushions there, and then I sit back down. I often see people sitting cattywampus on their cushions. Yeah, if they're sitting like that, you can say, move over. That's what I'm saying. If it's extreme. Because you can see that it's not comfortable and it's not good for them. Just sitting there, cattywampus. There's a Hawaiian word for these catalogs. Did you mention counting? When I'm talking about bleeding, You know, you sit there and breathe for a while after that same breathing you're doing, and let your mind follow your breath.

[47:35]

You're not controlling it. And then, again, you can count your breaths. And the way you count your breaths is on the exhale. So after you inhale, you exhale. And when you exhale, you count one. And then inhale again. And when you exhale, count two. So you count from 1 to 10, and it starts at 1. But when you count, you don't count like 1, 2, 3. The counting is just a breath. but the count is more like a count than like just ticking off numbers. It's just like saying move, right?

[48:42]

You say the number with the whole graph silently. The count, the number, and the graph. And then if you lose track of, you know, if you can't get to 10, or if you get to 50, before you realize it, then just come back to where you wanted to be and start all over again. But the purpose is not to make a perfect score, but just to be concentrated. I tell him just the way you say it. I tell him you can count your breath. I don't tell him you have to. No, I don't say you have to.

[49:43]

But then I say, well, if there's something you feel you have to or something like that, then I say, well, as a beginner, you should count your breath for a while, a long time, a period of time, until you know how, until you have some confidence in your practice, and then bring your concentration. It can be done anytime. It can be done anytime. When you learn how to count your breath, when you need it, it comes in by itself. When you need it as a concentration tool, it comes to you For a lot of people, a lifetime is a lifetime, you know. I work with numbers all the time, actually. But they have nothing to do with numbers.

[50:45]

They have to be in concentration. So the hearing is more faster. Usually our inhaling is quick and our exhaling is slow. And people would come and say, well, when I was at such and such, you know, they taught me this, or how come we don't count both inhaling and exhaling? I really encourage people who are going to continue this practice to get some personal

[52:04]

I invite them to practice and I remind them that they don't have to be somebody special or be a member to come see me, but that your calendar is on the door. If they feel like they want to continue... If they feel like they want to continue this practice, that they should ask for instruction. Then I tell them during service we bow, we do prostrations, and when we do prostrations, I show them how to go down, and then I say we touch our elbows, the backs of our hands to the floor, and then we touch our forehead. And I showed them how to do that without using their hands to get down low. Most people have to use their hands to get down low to do that, but you can't do it without using your hands to get up and down low.

[53:30]

And just a fine point, they shouldn't start coming up off the bowel until they clump, right? So you bowel, clump, and then they... But I don't usually refine it that much when I'm telling them about this. Because it's a little too much refinement. I just show them how to do it. If you want to do that, it's okay. But first, they know what a clump is because they've never heard the bell. Although, actually, if they did that, they wouldn't feel like they were in a race. Because, actually, that would give them more time. I think that, for me, that kind of refinement becomes a practice. Just the very essentials, I think, is enough. In relation to the forms, I would say, there's no mistakes.

[54:32]

even though usually we pay, we're here to pay attention to our own practice and help each other that way, I suggest that new people look at what's going on around them so that they're not just, you know, pay attention to what's going on and then they'll get it. It seems very complicated at first but nobody's going to excommunicate you. But I do say that, and I tell them that when you go into, if you sit in the back of a window, then you can see more easily what everybody is doing and observe what everybody is doing. And that observation is a lot for people to do, because I don't go into the service.

[56:01]

I just have to watch what people do. Yeah, just follow the people. The important part of how you end up practicing is being able to do that. Being able to just be observant and follow along. I don't know how to say that, but... Do you ever... I always wonder about whether to say something like, that sausage starts at such and such a time and you learn by time? Well, it depends on what comes up. Yeah. If that comes up, you know, I say something. Sometimes people ask if it's okay to come in late, like in the evening or afternoon. Well, yeah, I usually say, you make a big effort to be on time, but if you can't help being late,

[57:08]

Also, I never know whether I should, it says meditation instruction of 920. I have this thing about, well, Am I sort of setting the precedent by waiting for all these other people to trickle in? Or do I start at like 20 and do it and have the people join? That's a real difficult point. The hardest thing is to start as early as somebody walks in. Yeah. Three of them walk in. Yeah. So do you wait until there's a collection? I usually do. I think it's probably better to wait. Let them wait around. That's what I've been doing. I wait about 10 minutes or so. So it's almost always fine, it's actually about 9.30. I just feel sort of bad because there is other people right on time. Yeah, let them do the suffering. It's the first double trip, you know.

[58:20]

Even before that, my wife is suffering. Because then you have to explain the whole thing to them. It's worse for these people to be standing around while you're explaining the thing again to the lady. Right, right. I just let them catch up. Well, that's another way. Yeah, I let them catch up too. It depends on how late they are. And how late they have. Next Saturday we have another chance to come in at the beginning. Well, you had a huge crowd. Yeah, I don't know. They mostly went into the lecture room, but I've seen many of them since. Well, that's not unusual. Don't take it personally. No. No, no, no, I don't. If you have a big collection of people at 920, it's good. Sometimes there's like one person and you just have a strong feeling, you know, there might be another one. Oh, right. Yes. As it was, there was a large number, larger than I'd seen before, and about 20 minutes after I started, two guys came in, very apologetic, and one of them said to me, we couldn't find it.

[59:27]

I'm sorry we couldn't find the address. But I was already more than halfway through it. There was no going back, you know. So they sat, and I invited them to come next Saturday. That's good. Now maybe when they find it, they could give it to me. Yes. But I've had people come several times, so many people have been saying different things. I also did an introduction, and I'd like to go to Zazen Institute. Right. And the more people, you know, Zazen Institute can be a very, very fun, you know, a very Well, I learned a couple of things from listening to many people before I began in the business. I think what Fran, first of all, I think Fran had a very good idea to say right at the We promised our neighbors not to park on Russell Street, so if you come, please come.

[60:40]

It just takes a half a minute to say, and most people will honor it if they hear it. If they don't know, then they'll come park here. And another thing that you say, Fran, that I say, and I just want to know, what I heard you say was that what I'm going to show you and tell you today is all there is to know. There's no secret initiation. Consider yourself fully initiated and please come and practice with us with what I'm showing you how to do today. I thought that was a nice thing to say to encourage people that, you know, this seems so simple. I mean, just on your sixth grade... I would say it's just a basic thing you need to know. Well, I said this is all you need to know to come and participate in our schedule. They don't have to feel it in their ears. Right. And another thing that I heard Ron say, which I like to repeat, which was, he, well I think, you know, I'm Dolly, I'm a student who's been practicing here a while, and it's my turn today to give you Zazen instruction, and we do rotate that a number of times.

[62:01]

I think that was good. Some people don't get to know who are you. Somebody special. One thing I overheard you say that I would like you to maybe edit is, you said if you have questions, ask somebody in the robes. Yes. And I think... Yeah, I think that's no... If you have questions... They don't know anything, come on. Ask me. Ask you! You. If you have any questions, ask me. Because if you're doing this, you should be able to answer their questions. Ask me or ask somebody who looks like they know what they're doing. I wouldn't single out the priest as the only people to ask a question, you know, if you're confused about what to do or you don't know. Well, you know, I don't think people ought to just ask anybody. I mean, because a lot of misinformation gets handed around. We're not saying ask anybody. We're saying one. If you have any further questions, you can ask me. If I can't answer your questions, then I'll direct you to someone who can.

[63:02]

Well, I just short-circuit that and say, ask someone in a black robe. You know, I wear a black robe and I don't have any credentials. That's psychologically separating. We don't want to set up the priest as the answer. And it's not even just setting up the priest because it then makes for more confusion about who's a priest and who isn't a priest and what does it mean because there's a lot of people who wear robes that aren't priests who also really know what's going on and would be the right person. It's confusing. And some people who don't wear robes. Some people who wear robes, you don't know what they're doing. Yeah, I thought, oh God, don't have them ask me. We still tell them about the 7.20 Monday night. Right. I tend to forget to tell them about this. I usually do though. And I think that's been good.

[64:05]

So we do still give them that little photo, where they are, the weekly schedule, right? Yeah, they're on the shoelaces. They come up and everything. I usually let people make their way, they have to make their way from this room to that porch in order to be able to get in. And if they can't go that far, if they don't, you know, if this is as far as they get, then that's fine. They don't need the schedule. I have a question on this. Ross and Andrew, one or both of you, I noticed from showing people how to sit in chairs. Is that true? So that was interesting.

[64:50]

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