Yes, that's correct. Thank you. So, I wanted to talk a little bit about what I'm talking about and why, how it came to be. A few weeks ago, Sojin gave a lecture and he spent, at some point in the lecture, he opened this book. Oops, everything's falling apart here. Okay, we'll let that happen too. Excuse me. He got out Zen Mind Beginner's Mind and started reading the first talk about how people say that Zen practice is difficult, but that there is a misunderstanding as to why.

[01:40]

And it's not because it's hard to keep your legs crossed or attain enlightenment, which we all know is easy. But it's hard because it's difficult to keep your practice pure and not go astray. And he was talking about this in reading from the text, and I heard him say at some point, just be present. or something like that. And his commentary as he was reading the text and saying something were so seamless that I thought, oh, did Suzuki Roshi say that? Oh, that's interesting. I didn't remember that. And of course, I looked it up as soon as I got home. And of course, no, he didn't. It started a whole thought process for me.

[02:46]

So I'm accepting this as a teaching of Suzuki Roshi's, transmitted by Sojin. And so this talk today is a kind of huge digression, consisting of a commentary on an imagined teaching, which I, in fact, consider to be authentic. So I want to talk a little bit about the word presence, because this is what was stimulated by Sojin's talk. In order to do that, I have to put my glasses on, unfortunately. It's a kind of byword for mindfulness, or beginner's mind, or other references to our approach to practice. And yet, it's a little unclear what it actually means. Does anybody here know what it means?

[03:47]

Anybody have any idea? The word presence, what does it mean to you? Uh-oh. The answering of rhetorical questions is being present. Okay. Good. Nobody else? Well, I looked it up in the dictionary. Oh, someone back there. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yes. Maybe it's just showing up physically. Being in the present moment. Okay, good. We'll get back to that. Thank you. Yes. So that you're with what's in front of you rather than the monkey mind. Ah, good.

[04:50]

Yes? Being aware. Being aware. Asana? I think it's a deep listening. Deep listening. Yeah. Linda? Not running away. Staying somewhere, but not running away. Yes? Is monkey mind in the dictionary? Is monkey mind in the dictionary? I don't know which dictionary, but I'm sure it's in some dictionary somewhere. What's that? Oh, I see. So, speaking of the dictionary, I did look this up. And it's interesting, because it refers to Something that you perceive out there. Someone's presence. Someone has a strong presence. There is a military presence. It doesn't refer to a sense of yourself or a so-called internal sense, so to speak.

[05:57]

I'm a little ambivalent about talking about inside and outside. It's pretty clear that most of the references in the dictionary are about something that you perceive in someone else. So how is it that we maybe perceive this in ourselves? Well, that's an interesting question. And it's not unrelated to the question of how we lose our connectedness with beginner's mind. So I just want to bring up a reference, a clue about this that is part of the record of our lineage. There's a story about Deshan in the Tang Dynasty. I won't go into all the details of this story because it's pretty long, but the one piece that I wanted to share was about his journey to the south of China to straighten everybody out about the truth.

[07:05]

And he was a scholar of the Diamond Sutra, and he was trekking a long distance carrying a big pack full of his commentaries and copies of the sutra. And at some point on this rather tiresome journey, he came across someone who was selling rice cakes, an older woman selling rice cakes by the side of the road. And he put down his pack and said, you know, I'd like to have a rice cake. And she said, well, if you can answer a question of mine, I'll give you a rice cake. And he said, sure. Maybe, I don't know if this is part of the story, but I imagine her asking him, what's inside that backpack you're carrying? And him telling her. So the question was, it says in the Diamond Sutra, past mind cannot be found, Present mind cannot be found, future mind cannot be found or grasped. Which mind do you wish to refresh by eating this rice cake?

[08:11]

And I think it points to a question about how we think about presence or beginner's mind, because it's something that we can't find. Beginner's mind cannot be found. And presence cannot be grasped either. In fact, the only thing that all these things have in common is that everything is in motion. And, you know, we think of maybe that the past is sort of static, but that's actually always in motion too. We're always re-imagining the past. We're always, even if you think that's what we do with the past, it's always changing. The future you think has not happened yet, so that's kind of like, maybe that's static, but then we're always imagining the future too. And the present, we don't even know where that is, because the moment we try to touch it, it's on to the next thing, as we know. So, it's interesting, it puts a new spin on the word mindfulness, which is a whole other topic of what words mean.

[09:28]

I just wanted to sort of, it came up as I was thinking about this, and I wanted to say that mindfulness and presence have, to my understanding, have a kind of common quality, which is something having to do with intention. There's an act of intention involved. And just to say again, this is sort of parenthetical, but the word mindfulness, sometimes I think there's a problem with the English words that we use in connection with practice because they were created by someone who read a text a very long time ago in this case. The word mindfulness came into our vocabulary. over a century ago, and we're still using it. And is it the right word?

[10:32]

We haven't come up with a better one, but it's always subject to the freight of our culture. And so I think that the... I don't really want to get off on this, but there's a sense about mindfulness that it implies that it's a practice of concentration, which it isn't. I just think that that's a connotation that comes from our culture that we, and this is common with overly used words, that they carry meaning, or we carry meaning for them in a way that we, you know, we're constantly having to unpack and clarify. which is, of course, part of the process of Buddhism coming to this country, is that we will be doing this for a very long time, so I'm not going to complain about it too much. Maybe mindfulness is more about awareness.

[11:43]

So, the famous phrase about beginner's mind, In the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind, there are few. So what is it about the many possibilities? We think of the many possibilities as a good thing, and the few possibilities as not so good. But maybe it's more a question of whether or not we get stuck on one side or the other of that question. So one of the ways, and can you tell me when there's about 10 minutes left? Okay. Thank you. One of the ways I thought it'd be interesting to talk about presence is to talk about the near enemies of presence, the near enemies of mindful attention or beginner's mind.

[12:56]

And I'm going to call these under-focus and over-focus, just for the purposes of this discussion. So these might be broadly characterized as, in the case of under focus, as our attempts to disengage with difficulty by kind of zoning out and not feeling it, or closing down our sense faculties, you know, closing our eyes, looking down. looking inward, so to speak, or conversely, perhaps over-focus, trying to grasp at things to do, things to think about, urgency, fear of not getting it right, a kind of hyper-attention.

[14:07]

One way to kind of think about these a little further is to examine what you like about them, what you like about presence, over-focus, under-focus, as a kind of like... And, you know, these are qualities, these are strategies that each of us have to some extent or another, and perhaps one more than the other. I'm kind of an under-focus guy. I tend to disappear when it comes to situations of stress. But, you know, some people go back and forth like that. Some people are way on the over-focused side, always on. It gets very tiring, I imagine. I don't spend a lot of time there. So I just wanted to say something about how I feel about this.

[15:13]

So for under focus, well, in terms of over focus, what I like about that is the excitement and the focus and clarity that I perceive. You know, it's very energizing in a certain way. And what I don't like is the continued sense of urgency and impatience and the kind of fear that if I don't do something right, right away, on time, now, that particular thing, that something's going to fall apart. And I feel, under that circumstance, Constricted just in the breath and feel besieged by thoughts On the other side where I spend more time under focus What I like is a sense of calm and peace and sort of freedom from anxiety and

[16:31]

It's not, maybe, freedom from anxiety is perhaps not accurate. It's more like not feeling anxiety. What I don't like is the kind of sense of disconnection with others, from myself. And that generally leads eventually to kind of a sense of anxiety about what's really going on because I'm not really connected and I don't really know what's happening. and a lack of energy and vitality. I feel lethargic, confused, and not ready or somewhat unwilling to engage with inner and outer stimuli. You know, looking down as I'm walking down the sidewalk, kind of not able to meet the world. and just respond.

[17:35]

So, when it comes to presence, what I like is a sense of aliveness and possibility. And what I don't like is the same thing, a sense of endless possibility as if nothing can be settled. And I feel energized, but calm and genuinely confident that I have choice in how to engage in whatever way I choose to respond to the situation I'm in, to what's come up for me. So it's not necessarily a state in which everything is wonderful. It's just wonderful because it's simply the way things are. So it involves getting used to the sense that you don't know what's going to happen.

[18:59]

You don't know things. Not knowing and being able to be comfortable with that. to the extent that you can, to create some tolerance for that, allows the difficulty, allows your Self to be with presence and in presence, without interfering with it. The difficulty with our somewhat habitual ways of getting in our own way is that they're often very self-referential, that they contain a story about why, what's going on, that it's very hard to get out of. So sometimes we need an interruption to get out of it.

[20:01]

We need to come and sit down here, or we need to go for a walk, or we need to call a friend and say, look, I don't understand what's happening, but I'm really upset about this. We need to go out and have a good meal. Something which changes our, which, which allows us to stop repeating the story again and again and again. So my story is just about, it's about, for instance, I imagined, as I was thinking about this, I realized that I can imagine getting really excited about something And my story about that is that I don't know how to contain that in a way in which it can be received as joy either by myself or others, that something bad is going to happen because I'm not going to be able to contain that and I'm going to do something really stupid.

[21:22]

And then after that, what's going to happen is that I'm going to be consumed with shame and self-judgment. And I have a tremendous amount of fear around this. It's very interesting that I'm guarding myself against showing up completely when the occasion suggests it in a way that works for everybody. So another quality, I want to get back to another dimension of presence or beginner's mind, which has to do with direction. In the sutras, it often starts out a story about how the assembly came together

[22:28]

to hear the Buddha give a teaching, what happens in the very beginning. And at some point, before the Buddha begins to expound the Dharma, in words, the Buddha is constantly expounding the Dharma, but in words, the Buddha is said to sit down and cross his legs and put his attention before him. And so I want to suggest that there's a kind of direction, and this has to do with what I said about there being a quality of intention around mindfulness and presence. There's a kind of forward direction. Now, it's interesting, you know, when you hear the words, put his attention before him, it's easy to think, well, it's right there in front. And that's one element. But in some ways, presence is about the ten directions.

[23:34]

That what's behind you is just as present as what's before you. And yet, almost all of our most acute senses are oriented in front of us. So that's probably why we're talking about before us. So something about the intention, it's not as though forward means that we're actually thinking of going someplace. but that it's a kind of, there's a kind of openness to what's going to show up and a kind of openness to what's showing up both on the so-called outside and what comes up responsibly from ourselves or something like that. So,

[24:40]

I want to... I don't know if I'm concluding or not, but anyway, I want to say that all of this raises a question about how we transform the near enemies of our practice And there are many of them, and they're often close at hand. How are those transformed? How, for instance, transforming them into acceptance as allies and friends, and helping us to find acceptance of what is, and the energy and diligence to make the effort to see what is.

[25:46]

So I think I'm going to stop. What's that? Twenty minutes? That's enough time to get into some serious trouble. Yes, Mary. So in the service of not picking sides between the expert and the beginner, it does seem to me that experts sometimes know something in terms of their experience. That is, they've eliminated some of those possibilities, those strategies that didn't work. So it seems to me that the quality of the learning that we take from our experience is I imagine it's what Suzuki is pointing toward. Like in your story, if I remember the original story correctly, you concluded that your enthusiasm caused harm. Yeah, that is right. And as a very young person at the time, that's understandable.

[26:59]

But what if it was simply the physical skill you had as a young person, not your enthusiasm? In other words, the conclusion you reached. Yes, in other words allowing this the past to to reconfigure itself to There's so much of what you said there, which is interesting. When something happens that we don't understand, the first thing that we do is we go to our bank of resources, whatever those happen to be, to explain them.

[28:07]

That's what our brain does. And so some openness to questioning the assumptions that are behind those stories, and also thinking a little bit coming back to beginner's mind, expert's mind. The expert is very good at strategies, but maybe doesn't necessarily see all the possibilities at that point. So the question is when to focus on, when is it clear that it's appropriate, safe, whatever, to focus on strategies? Well, if there's a baby in a bathwater. I learned not to stick my hand in an open pine. That's probably something I won't do again. Yes. That's probably good learning. experiences are very important.

[29:12]

It's our learning that we value. So how do you distinguish between, what is he exactly, what is Suzuki exactly trying to point to? Good question. Yes, John? As a self-proclaimed expert on all kinds of things, I have found the biggest frustration of that is that it's hard to listen. to the moment, it's hard to take the wrong answer as the solution, which it can be. And so, despite being a so-called expert carpenter or something like that, I've always learned that there are as many ways that there are carpenters, as they say in that particular field. But we learn from burning our hand, and so we say, I'll never reach into a fire again until there's someone inside the fire. perhaps, that we have to reach in and grab, and suddenly there's nothing better than reaching into the fire.

[30:13]

And so it is with, so I think Suzuki is suggesting that each and every fire could be reached into or not, and we have to answer the question in presence with fire. So in presence with fire. Acting swiftly as appropriate, but not impatiently. Yes, Susan. Thank you. You said something about not doing the wrong thing, not being inappropriate. So is there any point at which you're not inappropriate? Well, I'm missing the context, the exact context, but If we hold back on our actions because we are afraid of the inappropriate, or our enthusiasm has come forth and we're inappropriate, so what?

[31:26]

Exactly. Exactly. So what? So that's one side. Exactly, so what? Who's to judge? The person who's judging that, in this case myself, has really not very good criteria. It's sort of like, what do I know? But if we say Buddha is inappropriate at all times... Yes, that's a good thing. Yes, that's right. Completely inappropriate. Yeah. It's the presence of that terrible feeling when you think you've blown it. Right. And what can you learn from it? You can learn from it that certain actions create pain or stimulate pain perhaps. And that's wonderful. That's completely inappropriate.

[32:27]

And it's wonderful. Yes? I wanted to go back to the tea cake lady. Oh yeah, right. This guy was a Diamond Sutra scholar. And she was able to disarm him with her question. He didn't have an answer. I didn't tell that part of the story. And he just went off and threw his books away. Because he realized that he was able to be disarmed by someone. who was just a lady selling tea cakes. And there's some thought that she maybe wasn't just a lady selling tea cakes. She was actually the mother of a great teacher, a teacher in her own right. But at any rate, getting back to the idea of, with what mind do you eat this tea cake? The minute you start thinking about which mind, you're not in the present.

[33:30]

So, if he had just grabbed the tea cake and eaten it, and responded in the moment, I'm hungry, there's a tea cake, I'm taking it. He's living in the present. Or he could have said, the smell of those tea cakes has already refreshed me. Yeah, that's right. Because he was lost because he went off into his mind, considering whether it was right and being embarrassed because he didn't know the right answer. Yeah, exactly. As opposed to just getting a tea cake. Yeah, right. The latter part of that story, as you know, is he goes to Lungtan and comes into the temple and says, and Lungtan's name is Dragon Pond, and he says something about, you know, I don't see any dragon. And then later at night, they're talking late into the night, and then it's time to leave, and Lungtan hands him a lantern.

[34:32]

And as Daishan takes it, he blows it out. Lungtang blows out the lantern. And that's when Daishan sees the dragon. That's my interpretation. So if you just respond to what's there without any discursive thought or any consideration about anything, hunger, tea cake, eat. then your life is simple, and you can be a fool. I don't know if your life is simple, but you can certainly be a fool. And it's okay. You can be inappropriate. I think when I was listening to Mary, the problem is the attachment to the idea of being an expert. That's what the ego... that interferes.

[35:35]

So that limits your sense of possibility. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Like Sakya Roshi knew a lot about Buddhism. But how does he hold it? How does he relate to it? How does he attach to it? So he can respond in the moment. So what he knows becomes something alive. So the thousand arms of Vallabhi Kutishvara are available. Right. Yeah. They don't somehow disappear because you're you get some idea about what you're doing. Oh yeah, yeah, that's right. Thank you. Penelope. sense.

[36:46]

Very interesting. Fascinating. Thank you. The other thing that comes up for me is when you were speaking of near enemies, one of the places I Yes. Right. Yeah, yeah.

[37:56]

It brings up the question of how you notice that there's a story going on. Is there a feeling in the body? Or where, you know, where is it, you know? It's a signal to say, oh yeah. Because I think once I'm there, I'm going to get that peace. Then there are a lot of different roads to go down that help me. Yeah. An old feeling of familiarity. Yeah. Right. I know. Excuse me, I don't know your name. I'm Sarah. Sarah, hi. So I don't quite understand, is mindfulness getting in the way of that? self in mindfulness, and then going back to the no self, then it's hard for me to perceive what kind of

[39:32]

mind. Yeah, interesting. I'm prompted to offer that well-known teaching of Dogen's. It occurs in the Genshin Koan. To study the way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the Self is to be enlightened by all things, and allow the body and mind to drop away, and bodies and minds of others to drop away, and that this no-self continues tracelessly forever. I don't know if that helps or not, but there's a connectedness between looking at what's happening and letting it go. Linda?

[40:38]

Somewhere in your talk, you talked about how your fear caused you to not show up. Yes. I was just thinking about something that happened to me about 25 years ago when I went to a session in Southern California And I was really depressed. I was really in a bad state. And they didn't know if it was selfish. I mean, turning up for this issue. But I got so upset in the first couple of days. So deeply horrible. And I was crying a lot. I was getting very angry. Uncontrollable anger. And I had this impulse to Was that a failure to show up? I can't say, actually. But, you know, when there's tremendous energy and agitation, that could be also, or it could transform into

[41:59]

Let's see, I had a word for that. Insight. Clarity. That it's... You showed up at that session with whatever state you were in and you met those impulses, whatever they were. Was that not showing up? So is it coming from a place of joy?

[43:13]

Well, that could be the litmus test. It could be... Like, I'm doing this for the benefit of all beings, for my benefit, including myself. This is a gift. This is something wonderful. When you start thinking about appropriate and inappropriate, you're probably all the way down the road by then. Deep in the rabbit hole. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think we've run out of time. Thank you very much and have a wonderful weekend. You're all lucky that you're not in a traffic jam on I-5 right now.

[44:18]

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