about the story of the fourth ancestor and the boy who was going to be the fifth ancestor. And this morning I'm going to talk on Morgan's comment on this story or the conversation between the fourth ancestor and the boy. Let me read that section. The last paragraph on page 69. When we penetrate the utterances of the two patriarchs, we find that the fourth patriarch's fativian name contains a meaning of essential significance.

[01:01]

In the past, there was a man from the land of Fat. There was a family named Fat. Here, the fourth patriarch is teaching the boy, your family name is Fat. This is the same as saying, I am thus, you are thus. The fifth patriarch said, I have a name, nature, but it is not an ordinary name. In other words, a name, nature, that is self-identical with being, is not an ordinary name, nature. Or an ordinary name, nature, is not self-identical with being. When the fourth patriarch said, Fat name is that. Fat is an affirmation. He is Fat. Fat-i-n-g. Fatting in affirmation. Fat is this name, nature.

[02:10]

Fatting is possible because it is affirmation. His affirmation is possible by virtue of what? His name, nature, is both it, affirmation, and what? It is infused in herbal tea. It is infused in your ordinary tea. It is in your daily life as well. The fifth patriarch said, It is buddha-nature. Essentially, this means that it, affirmation, is the buddha-nature. Because it is fat, it is the buddha-nature. But can it, affirmation, be fully comprehended only in fat name? When affirmation is not affirmable, it is still the buddha-nature. Hence, although it, affirmation, is fat, is buddha,

[03:13]

when that is fully broken through the cast-off, it is without fat and name, nature. Here, the name, nature, is chao, chao, or abiding. Yet this name, nature, is not received from your father or from your ancestors. It has no resemblance to your mother's name and can, of course, never be compared with any other person's name. The fourth patriarch said, You have no buddha-nature. This utterance reveals that although you are not someone else, you are entirely you. You are you, buddha-nature. You should know and you should study what is the temporal occasion now, when you are no buddha-nature.

[04:13]

Are you no buddha-nature when you have fully attained buddhahood? Are you no buddha-nature when you go beyond buddhahood? Do not restrict no buddha-nature by groping around for it. At times, you practice and realize that no buddha-nature is a single time of samadhi. You should be asking and should be articulating, Am I no buddha-nature when buddha-nature attains buddhahood? Am I no buddha-nature when buddha-nature begins aspiring for enlightenment? You should have even the temporal pillars asking. You should be asking the temporal pillars. You should have the buddha-nature asking too. Hence, the utterance no buddha-nature reverberates far beyond the chambers of the fourth patriarch.

[05:17]

It was seen and heard in Kyuan-mei. It circulated freely in Chao-chu. It was exalted in Ta-kei. You must devote yourself without fail to the truth of no buddha-nature. Never cease in your efforts. Although with no buddha-nature, you may have to grope your way along. There is a touchstone, what? There is a temporal condition, you. There is entrance into its dynamic functioning, affirmation. There is a common name in cha, cha, or pervading. It is a direct and unimmediate access. The fifth patriarch's utterance, you say, no buddha-nature, because buddha-nature is emptiness, articulates clearly and distinctly the truth that emptiness is not no.

[06:24]

In uttering buddha-nature emptiness, one does not say half a pound. One does not say eight ounces. One says no. Because it is emptiness, you do not say emptiness. Because it is no, you do not say no. You say no because it is buddha-nature emptiness. Hence, every piece of no is a touchstone to articulate emptiness. Emptiness is the capacity to articulate no. This is not the emptiness of form. It is emptiness. Form is emptiness does not mean form is forced into emptiness, nor is it making form out of emptiness. It has to be the emptiness of emptiness is emptiness. The emptiness of emptiness is emptiness is a piece of work in emptiness.

[07:29]

This being so, the fourth and the fifth patriarchs are asking and articulating buddha-nature no, buddha-nature emptiness, and buddha-nature being. This is his comment on this story. I hope you understand this. I don't understand. But I haven't told you to understand. And I have little... I have little understanding. And this is just a process of my working or practicing with Dogen's writings. So this is my temporal condition that I'm going to talk today. It's my temporal condition of my buddha-nature.

[08:32]

So don't trust. If you like this kind of writing, you like Dogen. If you don't, Dogen's writing is not for you. I don't like this kind of writing, but somewhere I cannot escape. I feel like I was grasped or seized by Dogen, that means by Zazen. So somehow I have been told to understand what this means. So this is kind of my report of my mistake. In order to fathom what he's talking about in this section,

[09:33]

I think we need to understand the conversations between fourth and fifth ancestors in Chinese. Otherwise, this doesn't make any sense. So let me write down. In one of the sections, the fourth ancestor first said... So this is the fourth ancestor said, What is your name? And this is... I'm sorry.

[10:46]

Where is you? Guy is fat. So as in conversation, says family name. Family name. And also this is as a poem, this is nature. And the boy, fifth ancestor, said, There is a family name, or I have a family name, but it is not an ordinary name. Seisoku fuze jōshōsei.

[11:56]

Seisoku fuze jōshōsei means family name, or nature. Soku means itself. And u is be, or have. And fu is not. And ze is this. And jō is ordinary, or permanent. And sei is again name or nature. Then fourth ancestor said, What is your name? Fuze ga sei. Fuze ga sei wa shō. This fat name or nature.

[13:05]

Then fifth ancestor said, Ze bukshō. This is Buddha nature. Ze Buddha nature. And fourth ancestor said, You have no Buddha nature. Nyō mū butsu shō. Then fifth ancestor said, Butsu shō, Buddha nature is emptiness. Therefore, you say,

[14:09]

Mū. Butsu shō, kū, emptiness. Because, and yueni is therefore, or hence, you say, mū, or no. So the conversation is very simple. The master asked to the boy, what's your name? And the master said, I have a name, but my name is not a usual name. Then the master said, what is your name? The boy said, my name is Buddha nature. But the master said, you don't have Buddha nature. Within this story, it's almost like

[15:12]

make fun of the boy. But the boy said, because Buddha nature is empty, or emptiness, you say, there's no Buddha nature, I have no Buddha nature. It's that conversation. Dōgen lived in a completely different Dōgen. So, please forget about that conversation. And just see each of these Chinese characters as independent ones. That's why I try to keep a space between these characters. And he's going to read these characters that shows the way the entire being is.

[16:18]

The first sentence, Dōgen Zenzi read, you are fat nature. You are fat nature. So this is not a question. This is a statement. So, the master tells the boy, your nature is fat. And this fat is seen as an expression of fat is it that does come. This fat. The reality beyond or before or prior to any discrimination or definition or being processed in our mind. So your name or your nature is fat.

[17:24]

Fat is your nature. So this is not a question about fat is your name. He said, when we penetrate the utterances of the three patriarchs, we find that the first patriarch's fat is your name. In English translation this says fat is your name. But Dōgen, like Yōga said, that means you are fat nature. Do you think it's significant that when you read the characters, it's more clear that that's an affirmation? Like if you read Dōgen's characters, do you think that would help you understand that in the affirmative way? Do the actual characters have that significance? In English we read the sentence very quickly because we're used to it that way.

[18:31]

Do you read it the same way when you read the characters? I think he can read in this way because Chinese is not his own language. I think Chinese people cannot read in this way. When we read foreign language, we need to pay attention to each one of the characters and what this means. And until we understand the entire meaning, we don't see this as a sentence. So when we read foreign language, we first read each one of the characters and try to understand what this character means and all together what this sentence means. It also has to do with the fact that the Japanese pronunciation sounds the same, but not necessarily the Chinese pronunciation. No, the pronunciation is different between Chinese and Japanese.

[19:33]

I don't know what I mean. The se, does it sound the same as shi? In Chinese, this se and this se is the same pronunciation, shi. So it's the same thing. The tone might be different, but the pronunciation is the same in Chinese. Please. The expression that comes? Yeah, I talked about that expression before, in the very beginning. Where is it? Do you remember?

[20:36]

I'm sure it's in the Record of Transmission of Dharmaranta. If you have the book, I think the book tells what it means. So please ask someone. Yeah. Okay. So, next sentence. In the past, there was a man from the land of what? There was a family named what? This refers to a story in the Record of Transmission of Dharmaranta. There was a monster. So he was asked, what is your name? And he said, my name is what car? And which country are you from?

[21:43]

He said, I'm from the country named what? And I think there is a family name, car, in Chinese, actually. So, this what is what I'm saying. This what is a family name. And it's not only the boy's family name. But it's all of us, the name, the real family name of all of us is fat, in the reality before any definition. That is what fat means. It's not fun, he said. Here, the first picture is teaching the boy. In the following one, you are saying or showing nature is fat.

[22:44]

And this is the same as saying, I am thus, you are thus too. This I am thus, you are thus too is also an expression from the story of fat is it that thus comes. When Nangaku was asked that question, he couldn't answer. He couldn't even understand the meaning of the question. So he practiced with Huenan for eight years. And finally he understood the meaning of the question. And he said, if I try to say, try to point out that one thing, then immediately I am off the mark. Then the ancestor said, if so, is there a practice and enlightenment or not? Then Nangaku replied, we cannot say there is no practice and enlightenment or verification,

[23:53]

but practice and verification cannot be defiled. Then the sixth ancestor said, this undefilement is what has been protected and maintained by all of the ancestors. And Huenan said, you are thus, I am thus. So protect this undefilement. That is the source of this saying. I am thus, you are thus, means not only you but myself and all beings are the nature of fat. That means all of us are the reality as it is. Buddha-nature. Entire being is Buddha-nature. Then second sentence.

[25:00]

The boy said, I have a family name, but this name is, this is not an ordinary name. But Dogen also read in different way. The fifth patriarch said, I have a name, but it is not an ordinary name. In other words, a name that is self-identical with being. Name that is self-identical with being is sho-so-ku-u. Instead of, there is a family name or I have family name, but he did not know this nature or name. I think nature is better here. This nature, that means Buddha-nature, is itself being. So this not have, but it is being.

[26:04]

So what Dogen did, instead of, all sentient beings without exception have Buddha-nature. He did again this word as being. So the nature is itself being. That is what Dogen said in the previous section about Ashvagosha's saying. Nature is not some kind of essence or something outside that supports this phenomenal world. But all beings within this phenomenal world is Buddha-nature. So sho-so-ku-u, that nature is itself being or entire being. And this, you know, nature itself being is not an ordinary nature. Or we can read this as a permanent nature.

[27:08]

Later Dogen discuss about Buddha-nature is impermanence. So we can read this as not permanent or not ordinary. Neither is possible. And Dogen says, in other words, a known nature that is self-actualized as being is not unordinary name. So unordinary name is not sho-so-ku-u, the nature that is identical with being. Ordinary name means our name. Our name is just a kind of a label of the reality of this being, this body and mind. And that is not the nature that is identical with being.

[28:13]

This one? Name. Well, I'm not sure. You can try to interpret by using this word as name. Name. Then fourth ancestor said, Fat is your name. They say or show. And Dogen again says something strange. Fat name is that. Fat name is that. Fat is usual way of reading this. But he said, fat is an affirmation. I don't like this translation, affirmation.

[29:27]

Affirmation in translation is ze. Ze can mean affirmation, thing we use together with they and he. Affirmation and negation. But in this case I don't think this is affirmation. But they is this. So this fat nature. This fat nature. So fat is this. Fat is this. And he is fatting this. He used Dogen read this ka or fat as a verb. Verb. That means... This is my interpretation.

[30:39]

Ze and ga. This and fat. These are two side or two layers or two way of viewing one reality. This means this. And fat also refers to this. This, for example, this body and mind. Names shohaku. And I can give information about what shohaku is. Shohaku is Japanese. Buddhist. Priest. Whatever I can write in my resume. That shows what this is.

[31:41]

What this is. That means... I was born in Japan 1948. So I'm 56 years old. And I became a Buddhist. And I became a priest. Now I'm living in America. And I teach in Toronto, Indiana. What this is. What this body is. But those are, how can I say, one way to grasp, to understand what this is. To point out what this is. And in the way to the collection of those information. And those information is what I have been doing. Or what I have been doing is a result of my karma. So this is about my karmic condition.

[32:43]

And my karmic consciousness. My karmic condition right now here is the result of my karmic activities. Because I became my teacher's student. I have been practicing this strange practice for many years. And somehow I have to teach this kind of strange teaching. This is my karma. This is what I'm doing. This is who I am. This is there. Very concrete, conventional way of seeing this being. Not only this body and mind, but all the other things. I say this is a marker. This is there. And yet, I'm not, not I, but this body and mind, these five skandhas, are not really shohaku. I'm shohaku only when I think who I am and compare with other people

[33:54]

and try to make distinction that this is shohaku, this is not someone else. And when I say I'm a Japanese, that means I'm not Chinese or American or French. I'm a Japanese. And I'm a Buddhist, means I'm not Christian or Islam. I am a Buddhist. And I'm a male, and I'm a husband of my wife and father of my children. We can explain and we can make a definition of what this is. And yet, actually, I'm not a Japanese. I am a Japanese only when I try to identify my nationality. And I found Japanese is only one people born in that small islands. Before I knew, before I knew there are other countries,

[34:55]

you know, Japanese to be, to think I'm Japanese, to say I'm Japanese doesn't make any sense. It's not meaningless. Only when we compare things and try to identify what this is, you know, to be Japanese, makes sense. Or to be a male, or a father, or a husband, or a Buddhist priest, or whatever. But actually, these five scandals are not Japanese, not a male, not a Buddhist, not a teacher, you know. And exactly when we sit in the Zen and letting go of thought, facing the world, you know, I'm not Shohoku when I'm sitting facing the world, and let go of whatever idea or thinking. These five scandals are just five scandals. By grasping, this becomes me, Shohoku, Buddhist, teacher.

[36:04]

But when we open our hand of thought, you know, this is not Shohoku, this is not a Buddhist, this is not whatever. I think that is before definition, before grasping, before thinking, before being processed, being cooked, using our mind, that reality. So this ka and ze is same reality. But when we grasp this reality using our intellectual thinking, this becomes ze, something definite. And to become something definite means to become limited. And yet before we define anything, before we grasp this body and mind with mind thinking, this is really nothing, or we can only say this is a fact.

[37:07]

So this mind of thought is used to indicate that reality of this being, before grasping with our thought. That is my understanding of what is our mind. So it sounds similar to temporal conditions. Yes, temporal conditions and Buddha nature. And let Buddha nature include both. That is what he is saying. So thought is this, and this is thought. I mean, Shohoku and this five skandhas before being named Shohoku is same being, same thing.

[38:16]

That means this is thought and thought is this. And this is same as form is emptiness and emptiness is form. And he said this thought and this Buddha nature, this nature making or fattening this means this Buddha nature allows this being, Shohoku, into, not into, I don't know the word, good word, but make into fat. That means this Shohoku dissolves. Then this group of thoughts. So, concretely speaking, he is talking about the Zen. In the Zen, Shohoku disappears and this body and mind become five skandhas.

[39:21]

And that is empty. And that emptiness is Buddha nature. And yet this Shohoku being grasped as this is also Buddha nature. Nothing different. And yet very different. And this fat is the nature, Buddha nature. And fattening is possible because it is this. That means we can be Buddha nature or something before any definition, reality before any definition because we are this. Because we are this means because our karmic condition, our karmic consciousness. This is only possible way this being can be fat, can be universal nature.

[40:28]

The only possible way for universal nature that has no form can be with this form, with this being, with this karma, karmic existence. Some. Some? Some person. Right. We can be something. And in my case, this is Shohoku. Shohoku is my Dharma name. Before I was ordained, my name was Masahiro. And actually Masahiro and Shohoku are the same characters. Yeah, it's gone. It's perfect. Anyway, so fattening is possible because it is this.

[41:42]

Because it is real, concrete, karmic, conditioned existence. So I don't agree with this translation. As I mentioned the translation of ze. Yeah, right. You have this, and then you find what. In other words, in terms of time, what precedes the present? Both are always present. Right? But in the process of my studying, first I understand who I am.

[42:42]

I identify myself as Shohoku. And when I studied Dharma, especially with Dogen, I found this is not really a Shohoku. So in the process of my studying Dharma, I first studied this, and I found this is fat. And finally, this and fat is the same thing. Even before I understand fat, I was fat. So, I don't know. So this is possible by virtue of fat. This karmic being can exist in this way as Shohoku, as conditioned being, because of this fat, this reality before any naming, any definition, any grasping.

[43:44]

This is something concrete, something particular. You know, Shohoku is not you, and you are not Shohoku. And I have some unique character. So, we are different. And yet, as fat, we are all the same. We are living the same life. We share everything as fat. But as this, we are all different. So, we are individual and independent. And yet, as fat, we are the same. We really share one life, living one life. Does that mean the original face? That is a common phrase I used to use to show fat.

[44:55]

In order to show the original face, by the way, this is not the original face. The original face is both this and fat. Does it make sense? In order to observe this fat, this is a common with all beings, that is an indication of individuality. It is called open face. Darwin doesn't have that understanding. In order to really see the original face, true face of each being, we need to see both, there and there, of this and that. That means we need to take care of our karmic self, too. It is not a matter of we should invade our karmic being, karmic consciousness, and become one with everything. Because we are, from the very beginning,

[46:00]

whether we understand it or not, or whether we awaken to that reality or not, we are one with everything. So this karmic condition is an expression of fat in very concrete form, as me. So to take care of, to see the original face, to try to live, being awake, awakening with this fat nature. Please. Yes. [...] That is what I'm going to say in the last, after I talked about this comment by Dogen. Yes. Fatty. This is being fat.

[47:04]

Fatty. So our true face, our entire being, is a combination, I don't know if that was combination, combination is half and half. But this is 100%. And this is also 100%. And Dogen said, I think this is really great. Before that he said, this nature is both this and fat. Buddha nature is both karmic being and also the universal being, soulless being. We should see Buddha nature in this way, from two sides. Then he said, it is infused in our own body.

[48:06]

It is infused in our own body. It is in our own egos as well. So this one thing, one reality, from one side this is karmic being and from another side this is fat, before any definition. And we, this thing together, make a reality or any reality or our day-to-day tea and rice. That means we live our day-to-day very ordinary life using, not using, but with this reality of Buddha nature. Please. In this paragraph, where it says, it is, his main nature is both it

[49:10]

and parenthetically affirmation of they, it is, what character is he using for it? I think it is they. Yeah, like she changed. Because I think affirmation doesn't work in every case. I think so this is better. Then... Yeah. This. Yeah. The it, could you say? It's the follower, it, parenthetically affirmation of they, one, and then it is a user, it is a user, it is the follower, are the same, they are the same. Because you mentioned about the middle way,

[50:15]

I, before finishing this section, I, I mean, what he is saying, Dogen is saying, is, same as Nagarjuna said about middle way. You know, in the Madhyamaka Kalika, Nagarjuna said something like, We need to learn about, what ever is emotional direction, in Chidambara. It is a kind of learning, or thought-conception, from the maturity of being, and it is the middle path. This is very famous passage from Nagarjuna's Madhyamaka Kalika. We become, we become,

[51:16]

but, from now on, is, relation of dimension, relation of dimension, is a representation for interdependent representation. That is, I mean to, cause and conditions. Is shown now, in Chidambara, that was, in this case. It is a provisional learning. It's provisional learning, is this, this, in this conversation. And, shown here, is, So, it's provisional learning, and this, like I showed, that means, thought-conception, thought-conception, from maturity of being. So,

[52:17]

in being, interdependent representation. It is, it is means, including both, shunyata, and provisional learning, include, shunyata means, or material learning. That is what, shunyata means, to be neither, between, or, in another shunyata, this is called, ultimate, to solemnity, and this is called, particular or forever, conventional, conventional ultimate, or supreme. So, what Dogen is discussing here, is very kind of a, authentic Buddhist idea, about the reality of all beings. We have to see, true form of all beings, from two sides.

[53:18]

One is from the side of the shunyata, another is from the side of, temporal conditions. That is created by our thought. That's the trick. Please. Yes, please. Part of my question was, when he uses the phrase, he is quoting an affirmation, does he imply in his temporal sequence, that the affirmation arises, that we have to be quoting first? I don't think so. I think he's saying, always. It's not a, kind of a, step by step thing. This is always in writing, whether we know it or not, whether we are willing to know it or not. But our practice is to, instead of to see, or to understand, but to manifest. You know, in Togonon Genji,

[54:20]

there isn't like the word, you know, kensho. Kensho means, like a kensho experience. Kensho means seeing the nature. So kensho experience, in this translation means, the experience which, we first see the buddha nature. And in the case of Rinzai Zen, that is something hidden. Something like a diamond, covered by the rock and dirt. And yet, somehow we need to find, there is a diamond. So kensho experience, is not the goal in Rinzai practice. It's a starting point. After that, you know, in Rinzai practice, they have to take the dirt, and rocks out, and polish the diamond. That is Rinzai idea of practice. But in Togonon Genji's idea, kensho,

[55:22]

he didn't like the word kensho. He likes, not likes, but his expression is gen, instead of ken. Gen means manifestation, actualize, manifest that nature, through our day-to-day activities. That is a kind of a difference between Rinzai practice, and our Soto practice, or Dogon practice. My practice is called Gyo in Japanese, right? Gyo is to go. Also to do, yes. But, same Gyo is used both in Rinzai and Soto. In entire Buddhism, practice is Gyo. Yes, right. So, you know,

[56:24]

in this section, our next section, we discuss about one Buddha-nature. In section six, he said Buddha-nature is impermanence. And in section seven, he discusses that Buddha-nature should be expressed just using our body. Anyway, I go back to this comment. Five ancestors said, this is Buddha-nature. My name is Buddha-nature. But Dogon means this, this, this. This, they, is Buddha-nature. This karmic consciousness, karmic being, is Buddha-nature.

[57:26]

There is no Buddha-nature besides being a shogun, and a monkess, and a Buddhist teacher. So, I try to manifest Buddha-nature by doing my best as a teaching activity. That is the only way I can manifest Buddha-nature, for me. So, this, they, our karmic condition is Buddha-nature. Buddha-nature. And essentially, this means that this, they, is Buddha-nature, and this is Buddha-nature because this is fact. Because this is fact. This is fact means this karmic condition, or correction, or result of karmic condition

[58:30]

is fact, means the reality before any discrimination. And the reality before any discrimination can reveal or manifest itself only through this karmic consciousness. Yes. Because they, they is fact, it is the Buddha-nature. If we think, so, shohaku is Buddha-nature, then that's a mistake. This karmic condition of shohaku is Buddha-nature because shohaku is empty. That means, if we grasp, if I grasp this body and mind and think, this is me, and if I think this something I grasped by my thought is Buddha-nature,

[59:31]

then that is a mistaken view. So, we need to open our hand. When we open our hand, and just be a conditioned being and trying to manifest or express, then that activity or practice is Buddha-nature. So it's very kind of a subtle thing. But can it or this, they, be fully comprehended only in fat name, in gassho, when affirmation or they is not they. So, they is not they. Shohaku is not shohaku.

[60:33]

When shohaku is not shohaku, that means when I don't grasp this as shohaku, then it is still Buddha-nature. It is Buddha-nature. When we open our hand and just be shohaku, that is Buddha-nature. And yet, when I grasp this as shohaku, and if I try to do things to make this shohaku, you know, satisfied or more important or stronger or wealthy or whatever, then that is not Buddha-nature. That is really a karmic nature. As Sawakirushi said, we have Buddha-nature and we also, at the same time, we also have a thief-nature. So, depending upon what we practice, what we actually do, Buddha-nature manifests

[61:35]

or thief-nature manifests. So, it is really up to our way of life, our activity, how we live, or our attitude toward life. Hence, although they, its affirmation in this translation is they, they is fat, and this fat is Buddha. And when that is fully broken through and cast off, broken through and cast off is datsuraku, datsuraku in shinjin datsuraku. So, we are really liberated from this clinging or grasping this body and mind, as in my case, sawak. Then it's not datsuraku, it's not liberated, it was grasped. But when I open my hand,

[62:36]

then this body and mind is broken off, broken through, and cast off, dropped off. And it is without fear, a nature, a Buddha-nature. So, Buddha-nature is not there when we ungrasp our self-clinging. Please. I feel confused because it seems like what we've been hearing is that this, this karmic consciousness is Buddha-nature. There are two things, and yet it seems like now you're talking about like thief-nature and Buddha-nature as if they are two things. It's very confusing. So, that's why this can be a koan for a long time. We have to practice together

[63:38]

with this strange idea. So, you know, we cannot get bored. It's a matter of moment by moment thing. And finally he said, this nature is chou. Chou is shu in Japanese pronunciation. And this shu, literally, shu is a family name of the body in the story. But this shu, the meaning of this family name is all-pervading. This shu is same shu in Fusho, Jojo, Mushofu shu. In the very end of the Genjo koan, Dogen Zenji introduces a koan story about using a fan

[64:40]

and wind-nature. And the expression wind-nature is permanent and all-pervading. That all-pervading is shu. Because this bird's family name in that story is shu, he said that buddha-nature is shu. That is all-pervading. That means in everywhere. So this is really for me was worth if you like this kind of problem. Otherwise, this is just a confusion. And what's the meaning of nature, buddha-nature? It's not achieved from one's fault or from one's own system. Therefore, it has no resemblance to one person's memory

[65:41]

and can, of course, never be compared with any other person's memory. That means each one of us is very unique. It cannot be altered. It cannot be changed with other person. So I really like this part. Although this is full of delusion and self-claiming, but as buddha-nature, this is only one unique being. So we need to really value and respect this being. This is the only thing we can manifest buddha-nature. We have little more time. Then, the first ancestor said, you have no buddha-nature.

[66:44]

The first patriarch said, you have no buddha-nature. This means that although you are not someone else, you have no buddha-nature. So this translation changed the word from no buddha-nature to no buddha-nature. That means buddha-nature as one and buddha-nature as all. In the first section, he said, in the primordial being, that is, all, all is buddha-nature. In the second section, he said, time, temporal condition is buddha-nature. Time is buddha-nature. In the third section, he said,

[67:50]

all beings are, being as a phenomenal being, are themselves buddha-nature. And here, he said, buddha-nature is wu. And this wu and mu is the same as zui and buha, this and that. Wu means this wu, as a particular person, a particular conditioned being. And mu is no such particularity. So, mu buddha-nature. And wu buddha-nature is two, not two sides, but from one side, this is entirely wu buddha-nature as this, as shohak. And from another side, this is entirely mu buddha-nature, before any discrimination, clinging, or thinking. In short, I want you to know

[68:55]

what is the proper occasion wu. For wu and mu buddha-nature. Of course, anything, always, wu wu buddha-nature. It's a little bit of wu and mu. I won't go into that. And any wu wu buddha-nature will have full abode buddhahood, or any wu wu buddha-nature will go beyond buddhahood. And the ordinary expression that I want to use is at Buddha's head, any wu wu buddha-nature at the head of Buddha, or any wu wu buddha-nature at butsu kojo, is going beyond Buddha. At the head of Buddha

[69:56]

is being within buddhahood. But that is not the goal for us. We need to go beyond buddhahood. Go beyond, beyond, beyond. Because there are no such things called buddhahood. Buddha is also emptiness. Buddha is also this reality before any definition, any discrimination. So it's always changing, going beyond, going beyond, going beyond. So we also go beyond. There's no way I can stay one place. And I say, I am enlightened, and my practice is done. There's no such thing we can say, I'm done. We have to go beyond, go beyond, go beyond. And that is all buddha-nature. So there's no way we say,

[70:58]

I know, I grasp, I understand, or I get buddha-nature. If you get it, then you lose it. So do not restrict your buddha-nature by groping around for it, trying to find, search, what is buddha-nature, this or that. This is what we do in our practice. But actually, buddha-nature is right now, right here, always. And yet we are trying to find it. I want to get it. But that is not buddha-nature. So buddha-nature is not something which can be the object of our desire. Because buddha-nature is this being. At times, in practice, I realize that all buddha-nature

[71:59]

is a single time of samadhi. We sit in zazen, a certain time, we get up from the walk, and we sit from 5.25 to 6.00 or so. That is, you know, in Vendoga Dogen said, when someone sits for a short time, even for a short period of time, you know, in jejun jangai, the person sitting, and this entire universe becomes one thing, and this entire universe becomes enlightenment itself. That is how this buddha-nature manifests, reveals, in our zazen. So zazen is the way buddha-nature realized or manifests itself. So when we sit and let go of whatever

[73:01]

thought or feeling, emotion, whatever, coming up from our karmic consciousness, then karmic consciousness is still there. But we don't think. I don't think, but thoughts are there, always coming up. And yet I try to let go. That means we don't grasp. We don't take any action based on this karmic thought. That's the way this ga manifests itself. And yet, there is still there. So zazen is really a kind of a most, I don't like the word, but purest way they and ga both manifest itself. Please. Well, because he discussed about

[74:15]

all buddha-nature also. Your entire being is all. All buddha-nature and all buddha-nature. And he also said emptiness buddha-nature. Emptiness we will discuss later. You should be asking and should be asking. I know all buddha-nature from buddha-nature to buddhahood. I know all buddha-nature from buddha-nature to roots aspiring for enlightenment. This is, the second sentence means when we arouse body-mind, we arouse aspiration. And the first sentence means when we attain buddhahood. So this means from the very beginning

[75:15]

from the very first step we leave the home and until the last step when we reach the top of the mountain we are buddha-nature. Manifestation of buddha-nature, all buddha-nature. And this externalizing buddhahood as we practice. We should have even the temple prayers asking. Temple prayers means everything around us. Not only temple prayers, but the white board, or microphone, or TV, so whatever. We should have even the temple prayers asking. So every single listener becomes asking or inquire about what is this new buddha-nature. And you should be asking the temple prayers. So we also should ask to everything.

[76:17]

So this world becomes a world of inquiring the new buddha-nature. And you should have the buddha-nature asking too. This journey of inquiring what is buddha-nature is actually buddha-nature is asking what is buddha-nature. Buddha-nature is searching the buddha-nature. This is the same as searching the fire. This is the process of our practice. A little more time. Hence, the atmanas, or impermanence, far beyond the chakras of the fourth pancreas. I have a question.

[77:19]

Reverberate far beyond the chakras. That means it's not from the chamber of the fourth ancestor, but it's beyond the fourth ancestor's chamber. Then I don't think this is the right translation. This is the atmanas, or buddha-nature, reverberate from the chamber of the fourth patriarch. It's not beyond his room. That means he is the first person who uttered the word buddha-nature. He's not the first. He's the first. According to Duryodhana. Did he say no buddha-nature? He said all beings have buddha-nature. He said all beings have buddha-nature. So Dogen...

[78:25]

But this particular expression, no buddha-nature, is originated from this conversation between fourth and fifth ancestors. Because, of course, the idea that the world is much older... What you say here is that it's from... it moves out. Far beyond where it started. But then you say that's not what Dogen said. But that's not... that isn't what Dogen said. Actually, everything he said means it. Dogen... So it's confusing.

[79:27]

What I mean is, I don't think that just saying that Buddha-nature reverberates far beyond the changes of the first day, or the beliefs that it originated before. What I think, how I would read it, is that it moves out, like you ring a bell, and the bell goes far past the bell. So maybe this started with the fourth ancestor, but then it's moving out. That's what I think. Yeah, I think that's what this translation in this sentence means, I think. But then it's... I don't think so. Dogen's saying this is, you know, reverberates from the fourth ancestor's room. And it spread... It was seen and heard in Hyunmei. Hyunmei means fifth ancestor's monastery. And it circulated freely in Chouchu, Chouchu's Joshu.

[80:34]

And it was exalted in Takei, Takei's Isan room. Those people use this expression more and more, Buddha-nature. What I'm saying is, to me, that the English suggests that the English suggests that it started from the fourth ancestor. If it's so, then this is OK. I was not sure. And it just arrived here, and we're going to send it... Yeah, please. Please. I'd like to finish this paragraph. So... We must devote ourselves only to the truth. I don't think so. The truth is only. Only and only Buddha-nature. I think I don't have any other truth. In the sense of how I developed this work.

[81:37]

So, we must devote ourselves only to the truth. Only and only Buddha-nature. We never cease in our effort. So our practice is endless. However, with all the energy, we must have to go forward along. There is a touchstone point. There is a total conditioning point. We must enter into its dynamic function and formation. There is a calling point. These are the kind of guiding posts for our journey. To work on this way of Buddha-nature.

[82:41]

Any questions? Does it make sense? Please. I don't know how to ask the question, because you just spoke about Buddha-nature. It's still not as personal as many of the other things are for me. Whatever you said, what do you mean by Buddha-nature? Buddha-nature is Buddha-nature. How can I say? What is Buddha-nature? What is Buddha-nature? Does it make sense? Is it similar to Atman and Brahman? I don't think so.

[83:45]

Buddha-nature is empty. There is no fixed entity. That's Brahman. And that's Brahman. It doesn't matter. I just don't understand it. Okay. Okay, thank you. You have something? Is it us, or is it Dogon? Here it feels like there is some kind of energy. He is really hammering something here. Dogon. Okay. Thank you.

[84:30]

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