Sometimes we can get into insta-sheen, so then people have to remind us about no idle speech and so on and so forth. Although sometimes you will also feel like they miss, I heard somebody say the other day, I'm not sure who it was, so I don't mean it in reference to you in particular, but that they like to come to the work-sheen because then we can talk. We can talk with each other. And there's something about that that's also nice. Sometimes the prohibition of talking is just the extra talk. It's not really a prohibition of necessary talk. But sometimes people feel disconnected or isolated practicing together, sort of like the lonely crowd kind of phenomena.

[01:02]

So there is a speech, there's right speech. So right speech as it refers to honesty in the expression of our heart and our intention and an economy in the use of words. When you don't speak, deeper communication between you will be encouraged. So hopefully we're sitting Shikantaza and we're practicing with our feelings and with our thoughts. Usually thinking is compulsive, you know, the thinking mind kind of runs the motor on itself. Automatic kind of thinking doesn't necessarily have to be problematic as long as we don't get caught by our thoughts or our representations of ourselves or other people or each other and so on.

[02:20]

Because if we do, then it's more difficult for our mind to become very subtle and very intimate with each other. So we practice Zazen and breathing to be mindful of our feelings and thoughts, but transform what we feel, how we feel it, what meaning we attribute to it, and how we break the compulsion of our thinking and pluck the living flower from the chain of our thoughts. Just to stay here without speaking for five days is already very meaningful. That is why we do not talk. When you are involved in a superficial conversation based on a passing interest, your true feeling will be covered.

[03:32]

So to open your innate nature and to feel something from the bottom of your heart, it is necessary to remain silent. Through this kind of practice, you will have a more intuitive understanding of the teaching. I think this is just a quote that I read before. The same is true with reading, because we don't read also. Sometimes people wonder, why don't we read? Are we talking about reading the Buddhist teaching or are we talking about reading the newspaper? But in general, we don't read one or the other, unless you have to prepare a talk, in which case you have to. When you become interested in something you are reading, your intuition does not tend to open. If you get very excited about some idea or something, then your thinking starts accelerating and you get inspired by all these things and your mind goes in different directions and so on and so forth.

[04:44]

That can be exhilarating and inspiring sometimes, but it's not Shikantaza. So we don't do that in Sashi, so that our mind can be very subtle. And then out of that subtle empty mind, then right thinking or true thinking can emerge instead of a compulsive kind of thinking that generates karma. It doesn't mean to confine yourself in the dark, but by not reading, you will encourage your intuition to open. Even if you're doing koan practice, it is not necessary to speak or to read. Especially for beginners, it may be difficult to remain silent or to not read the newspapers. You maybe feel very bored. He laughs here. They do say he laughs.

[05:47]

But you should continue your practice. So this idea of boredom, getting bored in Sashi, sometimes it can be illuminating, other times it's painful, physically painful. Sometimes it can be emotionally painful, depending on what's going on in your life. But other times, people can get bored just doing nothing but breathing. But if we practice Shikantaza, we assume the right posture, which is the right posture for everybody. Everybody has a different right posture. There is a right posture that we all try to emulate, I guess. And Soto Shu gives you a list of all the postures that are traditional.

[06:55]

And encouraged. But there are many different postures. So there's a right posture for everybody, depending on their circumstances. And that is the right balance. So there's no need to compare each other with the different postures that we all have. Because there's a point of equality and equivalence in all of our postures, in all the different postures. But if you have that point of balance, of right posture, that's unique to everyone, then there's a kind of an optimal balance between tension and distension. If you're too relaxed, you're not going to be able to relax. Then you fall asleep. If it's too much tension, then it's hard to sustain, or too difficult for any particular person, then it's hard to sustain over a long period of time.

[08:12]

So just the right balance of tension and distension, or effort and release or relaxation. And so then you have the right amount of energy for the practice. And then you don't get bored. Because you're energized. Then he says, in Sachine, everything will be taken care of by the old students, who will help the newer students to practice deeply. That sentence kind of feels like the sentiment of the aspects of practice. It's kind of the old students taking care of the new students, the new students taking care of the old students, in both directions.

[09:15]

Then we have the feeling of Sangha. And then we have a circular organization. It's not just a hierarchical organization. It's a circular organization, where the people who are at the top are also at the bottom. Meaning that we all practice together, and we all can offer teaching and receive teaching. That's more Western. The circular organization is more Western. The Eastern culture is very hierarchical. I have a Korean-American analysand, patient, client, I don't know.

[10:21]

And she has a really hard time with her Korean tradition, because she's an American independent woman. And she feels that the Korean culture is very hierarchical and patriarchal. So we have some of that. Some of that is in the lineage. But I think in the West, we're also making it more circular rather than hierarchical. So we have both sides, hierarchical and circular, I would say. Just sit and see what happens. Try to keep the right posture according to the instructions and follow the rules. Following the rules lets you find yourself.

[11:26]

So our Sechin director in the first period, Ken, read us the rules. The rules for Sechin. And they're very kind of down-to-earth, simple things just to remind us about what we're doing. Sometimes they feel like rules. And Sechin director talks to somebody, Oh, did you know we're not supposed to drink coffee during Kinyin? Kinyin is not a break. And so on and so forth. These are our rules. But if we just stick to them, don't think too much about it, then we just do it. And it's very freeing. But sometimes people have trouble with rules and authority and all that. And that's the kind of stuff that generates the thinking, the thinking mind. And then people get into interactions with each other about the rules that may not be as harmonious.

[12:30]

I remember one time I got a little paranoid. I was thinking they invented this rule about not walking around drinking your coffee. And I thought, Oh, that's probably me. What's wrong with walking and drinking your coffee? That's just one thing, you know. There's that famous, somewhere here in this book, Suzuki Roshi says, Well, you know, if you're, if you're reading, I think he quotes his wife saying, Oh, do you want some tea? And, you know, he says, well, if I, you know, say, don't bother me. You know, I'm, don't you see I'm reading? No, that's not the right attitude. So you have to be interruptible. So we can't never get, even though it's hard. Sometimes you get really busy and you don't want to be interrupted.

[13:36]

And don't interrupt me when I'm working, that kind of thing. But the Zen spirit is to be interruptible, you know, that you can be very concentrated, but just let it go and focus on what's, what comes in front of you and not get irritated by that. Although that's our tendency. So he says, well, she offered me some tea. So I, I, I put down what I was doing and I just drank the tea. I didn't continue what I was doing and drank the tea at the same time. But then there's a famous interaction with a story of Sansanim. You know, the Korean Zen master used to have the empty Zen center here in Berkeley too. I don't know if they still have it or not. It's a Rinzai, Korean Rinzai tradition. Yes. So once he was caught reading the newspaper and drinking coffee.

[14:38]

And he said, well, you know, teacher, don't you always tell us to do only one thing at a time, you know, and there you are reading the newspaper and drinking coffee. And I said, well, that's just one thing. He said, that's reading the newspaper and drinking coffee. So those are the two understandings. And it's wonderful how in Zen, you know, it always goes, these two understandings, it's a kind of revolving door. You never know which way the door is going to swing. Sometimes you expect you're going to get this, the dual teaching, and then you get the non-dual teaching. Then you expect the non-dual teaching, you get the dual teaching, you know. And so we have to know which one applies to the situation. I said that.

[15:40]

The rules let you know what time it is, when to eat and how to walk. So there is this, I mean, we structure the time, we say, you know, practice and live in the here and now. But, you know, pretty soon we're going to start working on the schedule for next year. And the dates for all the sessions for the year are going to be planned. And then you have to put them into your calendar and arrange it with your schedule and so on and so forth. That's not living in the here and now. That's planning for the future. But that's right discrimination. That's still consistent with being here and now. Because the future and the past unfold in the here and now. So the same with the periods, right?

[16:47]

All the day is scheduled down to every little minute. Although with flexibility, you know, sometimes there's a little flexibility. There's a little flexibility there built in. But everything is structured. But then we don't have to think about time. We just follow the bell. So we don't have to worry about, you know, this or that or busy or, you know, how many get from here to here at such a time. And so we try to be on time and in time. So in time, if you're late, how can you be? You're not on time, but you can be in time. Being late. Better to be, when I told Sajan this, he said, oh, well, you have to be on time and in time.

[17:48]

But it's not always possible to be on time. Because there are many reasons why people can be late. So if we are late, then we're in time. It is much better than not having any rules and sitting in a corner of the room five days without doing anything. That's interesting. That's like Tangario. Sitting in a corner for five days. Even if you sit at home, you know, I remember early on, I gave myself the task of, well, okay, all fair and good. You know, you do Sachine people and you support each other and so on. But can you do this at home?

[18:51]

So I tried once to sit the same time, five to nine, at home and see what that experience was, sitting by myself. And I found that I had to have a schedule. Otherwise, it was too much into what I like or not like or how long I was going to sit. Oh, it feels good. Let's go longer. Oh, no, it hurts too much. Let's cut it short. Right? So that's not the spirit. So the schedule helps us to go beyond the I like it or I don't like it. Or I want it to end or I want it to continue. There are various ways to practice following the breath, counting the breath or Koan practice. This time, I recommend following the breath. When you find it difficult to follow the breath, then counting the breath will be a help.

[19:54]

Then you will know exactly what you're doing. If your practice gets lost, you will notice immediately. So we follow the breath to work with our feelings and transform our feelings. It's kind of the alchemy of feelings in Zazen. And also to break the compulsion of our thinking. It's not so easy to do. Sometimes it's easier to do that and then you can just follow your breathing. So the breathing is done by the parasympathetic nervous system. It's an autonomous nervous system. It does it by itself. So breathing breathes. So we just follow our breathing.

[20:55]

So the stomach expands. And we follow the stomach expanding. Breathe through the nose. Exhale through the mouth and the stomach contracts. Just expanding, contracting, expanding, contracting and following that. And it's amazing how much energy just doing that gives you, even though it sounds kind of boring. But it gives you an enormous amount of energy. And it's how we work with our feelings and our thinking in Zazen. Sometimes it's hard to do that because the mind just won't stop. And it's just continuous, you know, hammering at you. So then you can count your breaths. If you feel that the compulsive mind has the upper hand, then counting the breaths sometimes is helpful.

[22:08]

It's right practice. So at the end of the exhale, you say one. And then two. Then you forget. Then you find yourself somewhere else. You appear somewhere else. And you say, oh, where am I now? So then you remind yourself to go back to counting. Or you can do just one. One. Number one. Just like that beetle. Number nine. Number nine. Number nine. What the hell was that, you know? John Lennon writing number nine, you know? Number nine. One. One. In Spanish. Sometimes I do it in Spanish. Uno. Uno.

[23:09]

I like uno because that's the no in it, you know? Uno. That's both yes and no together. Like, uh, um, no. Uno. Um, sometimes that settles it. Then your mind becomes very, uh, settled and subtle. And then you have space, you know, to not react. But respond, rather. When you practice following the breath, don't make too much effort to make your breathing slow down or deepen, or anything like that. Right, so that's the problem with counting breath. Sometimes then it feels like a struggle. Like, you know, you're struggling. It's like the rider and the horse.

[24:10]

Like, um, in Krishna and the rider and the horse, you know, the chariot and the horse. Or you have that metaphor in Plato also. The rider and the horse. That's us. The horse is the mind. And the rider is the self. But it's really Buddha, so no self. So that's the struggle, you know? When the rider and the horse are not in accord, sometimes they're in accord. The horse is not dominated. The horse is free. But the horse's nature is in accord with the rider. So the rider and the horse are in accord. That's like Zazen. But sometimes they're not in accord, so then it feels like a struggle. But that struggle may be necessary.

[25:12]

Sometimes. It's called, in Judaism, it's called God-wrestling. God-wrestling. You know the story of Jacob. Jacob and Esau, the two brothers. Jacob and Esau. And Esau was the physical guy, kind of aggressive and hunter type of person. And Jacob was the sensitive one. And the lineage, the Torah, as it was written, said that the blessing of the father had to go to the firstborn.

[26:17]

The firstborn was Esau. So for Isaac to follow the law, he had to give the blessing to Esau first. The firstborn. But then, this is the story, right? God speaks to Rebekah and says to her, don't do what I said, what's written in the Torah. So it's kind of God speaking from both sides of his mouth, which Buddha also often does. That's part of learning how to relate to your teacher, is learning how the teacher speaks from both sides of the mouth. Sometimes one teacher, sometimes the other. So Rebekah tells Jacob to put a, because Esau was very masculine, manly, had lots of hair. So he tells Jacob to put a skin of a goat on his arms

[27:22]

because Isaac was blind, so he wouldn't see him. They would just touch him. So he thought that Jacob was Esau, so Jacob got the blessing. But of course, poor Esau, he got cheated from the blessing. And he wasn't happy about it. So he goes and he had all these tough guys, kind of a gang. So they go after Jacob and Jacob's running, fearing for his life. And then he camps at a particular place. I think it's called El Shaddai, the place where he camps. And then overnight he has the famous vision of the stairway to heaven. And there are these angels going back up and down. And then he struggles all night. And it's unclear whether he's struggling with a demon or he's struggling with God.

[28:26]

God is a demon, delusion and enlightenment kind of thing. Can't tell if it's enlightenment or it's a delusion. Sometimes you can't tell. Or whether he's fighting within himself with the delusion and enlightenment within him. So why did he go along with his mother's trick for his brother? So then he struggles all night and gets injured. He gets a hip injury. That's kind of classical to get some kind of injury. That's part of the process. And then when his brother finally arrives, they both thought that something horrible was going to happen. And then they both fell on their knees and wept, cried intensely. And hug each other and tell each other how much they love each other and they forgive each other.

[29:31]

And after that, Jacob is called Israel. He's given a new name. That's what Israel means. Isn't it something? It's a story for all of us. But that's the struggle. That's the rider and the horse. That's the inner battle that is being waged. So really our fights are not with each other. They're really with ourselves. And when we come out of that struggle with ourselves, then we can all embrace each other. And then we're truly brothers and sisters. Then we have Sangha. Although Sangha also involves all the mischievous and all the crazy stuff, the entanglements, the misunderstanding, miscommunications. I said this but I intended that. How are we doing with time, Ross?

[30:44]

We're in time. So just forget being on time. Don't forget being on time. Sorry. All you who enter here, abandon all hope. That's what Jerry said in one of the classes. But I guess that's a quote from Dante. That's the inscription at the gate of hell, right? Yes. You're welcome. Sometimes you get dual teaching and sometimes you get non-dual teaching. Sometimes you get dual teaching and sometimes you get non-dual teaching. And our task sometimes is to figure out which is appropriate. Right. Just talk a little bit about when one is appropriate.

[31:47]

Right. Well, let's see. There's something here that he said. Do not accept or reject based on what you like or dislike. So that's the not picking and choosing. But sometimes, that's the non-dual teaching. The dual teaching is sometimes you have to choose. And you have to know how to choose. How to pick, make the right choice. Sometimes, it's like that story with, how do you call it? It's sapo. How do you say sapo in English? Sapo. I can't remember my English now.

[32:49]

It's the frog, thank you. The frog. I think Hosen spoke about the frog, right? And so the frog, it's a favorite image of Sugiroshi and Sojin. And maybe now Hosen too. But so the frog is just sitting there, right? So there's that sitting, very still. That's the kind of base energy. And then there's a fly that comes by. And the tongue goes out, grabs the fly. Brings the tongue back into the mouth. And then if the frog likes it, swallows it. Doesn't like it, spits it out. Is that Zen? Or is that like and dislike? So when you hear it as Zen, oh, that sounds like Zen. That's because it's the dual through the non-dual.

[33:55]

So it sounds right. But it is dual. The other side is, oh, you like it? Swallow it. You don't like it, spit it out. Okay, how about swallow it if you don't like it. And spit it out if you like it. How about that for non-dual practice? How you like that, froggy? Hosen. Okay. Well, I think, I mean, this is a favorite of Sojin, right? Sojin is all about intuition. And the latest definition that he gave us was into it.

[34:57]

Into it, or being one with it. Being one with things. Things that are not things, or things that is no thing. What are things beyond our categories of perception? That's direct experience. So with the unity of subject and object, then innate unconscious understanding emerges spontaneously. That would be intuition for me, when it emerges spontaneously. Just like when, you know, even in science, Mendeleev, you know, he discovered the tables, the chemical table of elements, which, by the way, is a lot more than four. Like we thought, like it's in the teaching, we talk about fire, water, and so on and so forth, but there's a lot more elements than that. But that's okay, we can just stick to the four, because, you know, it's a metaphor.

[36:01]

But he had that vision in his dream, all this practice, you know, waking practice and effort and research and all of that, and then it's just, you know, his mind processes this at night and just gives them the whole table revealed just like that. So that's intuition. My question here is, there has to be something for the mind to process. Does it come from nothing, or does it come from something? Well, that's a perennial philosophical debate, right? Does anything come from nothing? Even in Buddhism, because it's all cause and conditions. So nothing can come from nothing, because it all arises according to cause and conditions. But within the cause and conditions, there's something,

[37:02]

there's a oneness that is unconditioned. I would say that's the source of intuition, is how we connect with the knowledge that's already there embedded in nature and in our minds and in our bodies. So when we connect with it, without going through the process of logical induction or deduction, it's just an immediate realization. That's my best take on it at this point. Who should go? Who is first? Who's on first? You? Yes, hi. The sensitive one. Okay, well now you've said it.

[38:49]

Yeah, that, you know, I tend to not, I think the social-historical is just one dimension. There's something beyond, you know, which we call real. The Jews call God. There's something that we're interacting with, and that's our source. And I think that is being played out in this dynamic between Rebecca and Isaac. And it goes beyond whatever the social-historical power dynamics may be between patriarchy or matriarchy. There's something more profound there, I would say, than that. Because, I mean, yeah, I mean, Jacob, I mean, it wasn't, okay, so it was an oral teaching. There wasn't the written Torah. I don't know what was written at that point. I mean, certainly they could write already,

[39:52]

but the idea was that Isaac was supposed to have the law, you know, which said that the blessing goes to the firstborn. But sometimes the law has to be changed or challenged, and that's the principle that Rebecca represents, but that's also divinely sanctioned. Both are divinely sanctioned, just to use that language. Yes. Hi, Judy. I have a question about the non-Jews. You have to make one intuition, when those are ones who are experiencing this. I say that about forgiveness,

[40:59]

but what's the relationship between one intuition and all that? Hmm. I would say that intuition is the wisdom of forgiveness. So the wisdom that tells you at the right place and time, forgiveness is the function. Yes. Well, yeah, it's like the way in the Middle Ages, right? They thought that just because we see the sun rising from the horizon

[42:03]

and setting, you know, we think, well, the sun is moving, and of course we're not moving, right? Looks like we're all, you know, not moving, we're stationary. That's intuition, but it's wrong. So that's why science requires the counterintuitive. But I would say that that's a different kind of, that mistake in intuition is a different kind of intuition than the intuition that Buddhism speaks about, or that Suzuki Roshi speaks about, or that Sojin Roshi speaks about. But often, unless you have a sensitivity also for science, you can miss that mistake that intuition can sometimes convey, because it just seems like common sense. Sometimes we think, you know, it's just, it's sort of mountains are mountains, rivers are rivers, right? You take that for granted, that's the naive reality,

[43:06]

but that's just because, you know, those are the categories of perception, of intelligibility. That's how we perceive the world, and we think that's the way the world is, but it's not necessarily the way the world is. So that's why we have to go through, there are no mountains and there are no rivers. And then we come back to the true intuition, but there the mountain is moving and the river is standing still, which is not intuitive. It means that you always have to verify it. So you have to pay attention. You know, what happens when I have this kind of intuition, and I have, was that real?

[44:09]

Because it's not always passive, it does result in action. And you can't be off. Because of your own visual stoppage, or because the way things, how things appear, how things appear is not necessarily what is appearing. Right? So the intuition sometimes is just through the how, but it doesn't tell you what the structure is that is manifesting. We have to have an understanding of both. One more. Yes. Maybe we are going on the moon.

[45:21]

Right. But you know, I mean, they put Galileo in prison. I mean, that's where the rubber hits the road. And the Church insisted that their intuitive dogmatic belief was right. And they're willing to go to war for things like this. So, but the other form of intuition is, you know, when somebody tells you, you know, you can say to somebody, you don't get to tell me who I am. Right? When some say, I think you are feeling this and you are feeling that, because my intuition tells me that this and this and that, and it's all projection. Sometimes we confuse intuition with projection. Because of this connection that we have, we project our inner experience, and we think that that's what the other person is having, but it's the incorrect intuition. So then you have to say to that person, you don't get to tell me, you know, who I am.

[46:27]

Right? Not that I know who I am necessarily. And if you are willing to sit down and have a conversation with me, maybe together we can figure it out, you know. Okay, Russ.

[46:44]

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