doing practice discussion yesterday. Several people mentioned what Sojin was talking about during the lecture about if this is the most important thing, if practice is the most important thing in your life, well what about if it's not? Where do you fit in if it's not? So I don't want to get into a big discussion about it but I just wanted to express my understanding of what he said, which is only my understanding of what he said, I don't want to speak for him, and maybe take a couple of comments, but not to have an extended discussion about it. You know when Mel, or Sojan, first started the Berkeley Zen Center for years and years before He would describe what his role was here.

[01:03]

He said, my role is to provide a place for people to sit Zazen. That's what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm providing a place for people to sit. And it wasn't until after he became an official teacher in Mountain Seat Ceremony that that fell away and he became an official teacher. So then he takes on the role of being a teacher. But my feeling has always been that that first feeling that he had and role that he had has always been pervasive in his attitude, no matter what his teaching status might happen to be. And my understanding of what he was talking about was not that He was talking about a relationship between a particular student and a particular teacher. It could be any particular student or any particular teacher. He was not talking about ... he was not making some big generalization about teachers and students, that teachers only want to relate to students who their practice is the most important thing in their life.

[02:15]

it's on a particular basis and so that the stories that we know about which are the most dramatic stories of intense you know cutting off your arm supposedly in the snow and you know sitting all night in the snow your arm cut off these are like illustrating you know a way-seeking mind in the strongest degree So there's a kind of a model for a particular relationship between a student and a teacher or a student and practice, but it doesn't mean that if you don't have that attitude that you're second-rate or that your practice doesn't really count for much or, you know, we're just sort of humoring you by letting you be here, you know, because we don't want to be mean. That's not the case, you know. And it won't be up to anybody who tries to measure somebody else's practice.

[03:17]

You can't measure your own practice, let alone somebody else's. So I don't think he meant it like that. As he gets busier, and you see this with all teachers, as they get busier and more popular and more people want to see them, they have to limit their availability. He used to be available all the time. He'd just hang out. He can't do that so much right now. So he, you know, naturally, he would tend to gravitate more towards people that are more involved. but it doesn't mean that there's a rejection of people who aren't so more involved. And it certainly doesn't mean that you can't go to doksan or that he wouldn't like to see you in doksan if practice isn't the most important thing in your life. That's not true in my understanding. So I just wanted to clarify that, that on one hand you can stress how wonderful it is when somebody is just totally engaged in practice and that's the main thing in their life, but it doesn't mean that somebody who's not like that

[04:19]

is inferior. So just take a couple of comments and then we'll move on to another subject. Sue? Yeah, thank you, Ron. That was very lovely what you said. It started me thinking about my own life. I had a sense of grief about that again, because I don't have it anymore. And he's always said, do what you love to do the most, find whatever that is and try to do that if you can.

[05:41]

And whatever, it may not be your ideal or it may not be practical, but whatever you have access to that you care about the most, go for that. That's just pretty commonsensical. One more? Yes, but also it may not look like something, too.

[06:46]

One person's effort may not be apparent. So it's true for the expression of that effort, but we can't necessarily see it. Sometimes you can see it, sometimes you can't. Or maybe most of us can't see it. Maybe some people can see it. Wow. If on January 1st, you say, well, you know, sometime during this year I'm going to sit for five minutes, and you forget about it all year, and then it's December 31st, and it's 11 o'clock, you're up!

[07:59]

And you sit for five minutes, as you intended to. You say, then you're a good sense student. Okay, what would this hold that? So, moving right along, in the spirit of Sojin's talk yesterday about Suzuki Roshi's talk, which was about chewing brown rice, we're just coming back to the simplest thing, the simplest activity. In terms of the Dharma, I would like to return to the simplest, one of the simplest aspects of the Dharma, which is the Four Noble Truths. if you've been around a long time the Four Noble Truths may not seem so interesting, they're so basic compared to how interesting Dogon is or Tibetan Buddhism is or different levels of consciousness, the Four Noble Truths seems pretty ... we've been over that before.

[09:17]

But we've also been over chewing brown rice before and Suzuki Roshi felt necessary to give a whole talk based on it. So I'd like to go over the Four Noble Truths but in my own way of doing it. give you the background for the Four Noble Truths is that you should know that it's Buddha's first sermon, it's his first teaching, so of all the things that he could have said, the first words out of his mouth after his enlightenment experience and after sitting for six years, the first words out of his mouth as a teacher were the Four Noble Truths, so He had a band of friends, I think there was five of them, five monk ... I don't know if they were monks, just five practitioners who were ex-ascetics, and he had practiced with them and they had done these extreme ascetic practices and almost killed him.

[10:28]

He decided that wasn't the way and went off and sat under a tree for six years. And they thought that he had wimped out, that he was kind of sissy, you know, he couldn't handle it, so he was just sitting under a tree, you know, or they're standing in cold water and starving themselves to death, he's just sitting under a tree. And so they would kind of look down on him, but he ... you know had this awakening after or throughout his six years had this awakening and kind of collects them again and you know they're kind of skeptical of what he wants to say but so he then he tells them about the four noble truths so that's the context of how that they were presented first And then one of the monks became enlightened just through hearing his first sermon.

[11:31]

And then he ordained that monk. That was the first ordinee. So I'd just like to read you, it's very short, the Four Noble Truths, because even though we know the gist of them, sometimes the wording, we forget about the wording, which is rather important. And I'm just going to read the first part. The last part is more of a kind of an accentuation of the first part. So I'll just read the first part, which is the core of it. These two extremes, O monks, are not to be practiced by one who has gone forth from the world.

[12:35]

What are the two? That conjoined with the passions, low, vulgar, common, ignoble, and useless, and that conjoined with self-torture, painful, ignoble, and useless. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata has gained the knowledge of the middle way, which gives sight and knowledge and tends to calm, to insight, enlightenment, nirvana. What amongst is the middle way which gives so forth, so forth, so on? It is the noble eightfold path, namely right views, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. This, O monks, is the middle way. Now this, O monks, is the noble truth of pain. Birth is painful. Old age is painful. Sickness is painful. Death is painful. Sorrow, lamentation, dejection, and despair are painful.

[13:39]

Contact with unpleasant things is painful. Not getting what one wishes is painful. In short, the five skandhas of grasping are painful. Now this, O monks, is the noble truth of the cause of pain, that craving which leads to rebirth, combined with pleasures and lust, finding pleasure here and there, namely the craving for passion, the craving for existence, the craving for non-existence. Now this, O monks, is the noble truth of the cessation of pain, the cessation without a remainder of that craving, abandonment, forsaking, release, non-attachment, Now this, O monks, is the Noble Truth of the way that leads to the cessation of pain. This is the Noble Eightfold Path, namely Right Views, Right Intention, Right Speech, Action, Livelihood, Effort, Mindfulness, Right Concentration. This is the Noble Truth of pain. Thus, O monks, among doctrines unheard before, in me sight and knowledge arose, wisdom, knowledge, light arose.

[14:51]

This noble truth of pain must be comprehended." So that's the core of his sermon. So the first interesting point is that you know oftentimes people think that what he said is life is suffering and so if you tell somebody or they say reality of Buddhism and if you start out and say well life is suffering they think that sounds really depressing and you know why would I ... I don't think that's true because I have joy, I have fun, I have good times, I don't think that life is just all suffering, but if you hear what he said was that the five skandhas of grasping are suffering, the five skandhas of grasping

[16:02]

And what he's really saying here is basically emptiness. He's not using the word emptiness, but we're always using the word emptiness in Zen practice, you know, and he doesn't say emptiness but it's exactly what he's expressing in saying that the five skandhas cause suffering are the five skandhas which lead to grasping and craving cause suffering. He doesn't say that there's a self that's causing the suffering, he's saying that there's a composite of our personality which is causing suffering. And you know if you really if you were to sort of examine what does that mean, that these are just composites and there's no starting point, there's no core, there are just five skandhas that are causing suffering, this is just a more ... it's another way of expressing emptiness, there's no own being there,

[17:13]

but he doesn't emphasize that, that's not the point that he's trying to make. So it's our composite personality and the craving that that sets up that creates our suffering. I think that a really important aspect of practice is that we really have to pay attention ... the practice of how do we pay attention to our suffering? There are different ways, there are a lot of ways of paying attention to suffering or to avoiding suffering or ignoring it, but this practice is how do we pay attention to suffering? we could, you know, we can analyze suffering, which could be helpful, you know, an analysis of suffering, you can study Abhidharma, you can study all the constituents of how suffering works down to the minute degree, that's one way, and that is a Buddhist method,

[18:55]

you could avoid suffering you could ignore it you can't avoid suffering but you could ignore it which is what we most of us are this entire society actually does is in some way we ignore or deny the depth of the quality of our unhappiness or our discontent for one thing you know that the you know, we're so speedy. The society is so incredibly speedy and getting faster all the time. Partly, you know, so you wonder why is that? You know, why is the society so speedy? Well partly I think it's that we just you know have this craving for stimulation which is our skandhas like that you know the whole process of consciousness and colors and sounds and projects and all this stuff you know we enjoy the stimulating quality of that and so we want more if we can make it go faster we can get more.

[20:08]

If we can use a computer we can get more stimulation if we have a car we can go more places. So more stimulation is part of it. But we just like to move quickly and as we're moving quickly we don't need to notice what feels uncomfortable. The more projects we have the more we're working on the more we're doing this or doing that and moving from one place to the other, we don't have to deal with the fact that just as is doesn't seem to be really sufficient. As is is too boring or doesn't feel complete or is not interesting enough or doesn't compare well with somebody else.

[21:10]

It's not what our mother and father wanted us to be. It's not what our teacher wants us to be. or we think that our teacher wants us to be. So, you know, I think that in our practice that actually we be paying attention to what our suffering is and we don't really use analytical method. Our method is what I would say is mindfulness, just being aware of the feeling, unpleasant feelings as they arise. and really being willing to just be there with unpleasant feelings. It's so simple, it's really really simple and we have all these libraries full of Buddhist philosophy and interesting levels of consciousness and wonderful kinds of practices and inspirational teachers, but really

[22:16]

you know, actually really just paying attention to what is unpleasant and how we ... being able to just be with something which is unpleasant and not run away from it, not try to make it into something different, but just actually be willing to experience it because that's what's here now. is my understanding of what real Zen practice is. It's not all Zen practice, but this is a really important aspect. You just have to pay attention to ... you know, this is like, be here now, be in the moment. Well, if the moment involves dissatisfaction, that's what you've got. And so Sashin is this wonderful, it doesn't feel so wonderful sometimes, but it's a laboratory where we slow down and we're not speeding around, we just stay together in this relatively small space.

[23:33]

and we can notice our suffering, we can really notice the quality of our suffering. We don't have to work at it so much, all we have to work at is just being awake because the suffering or the dissatisfaction is likely to already be there. It can be very subtle. It needn't be like tears and crying or depression. It can be extremely subtle. And it's not necessary to make a big deal out of it either. But the fact is, you know, in Sashim is this chance to really, you know, to really become intimate with what we're uncomfortable with. If you don't have any issues with being uncomfortable with anything, if you have total equanimity, that's great, and you can just enjoy your equanimity during Sushumna. But most of us have not really, in our deepest level, paid attention to what ails us, what bothers us, where we feel fearful, angry, where we feel maybe disoriented, at a loss, sad.

[24:43]

all those qualities in us, we would prefer to kind of, you know, we know they're there, but we'd rather go do something more interesting. And so she can't really go do something more interesting. You just have to sit here and be awake. It's like chewing brown rice. But this would be pretty, you know, not a great marketing tool. You're talking to Salsa Sheens, this is not a great marketing approach. The great marketing approach is that we can sit here with an open mind, so that even though we have things that are dissatisfying, disturbing, maybe we feel uninspired and kind of dreary, whenever the kinds of feelings come up.

[25:45]

With an open mind, it's not solid. It's not some kind of a solid, fixed situation. And one of the problems with analysis is if you're analyzing states, it can start, you know, we start fixing things, you know, we hold it off and then we analyze it and then now we have this thing that we've analyzed and now we think we know what it is. But at a moment by moment, moment by moment, just sitting in zazen, feelings come up as, you know, but with an open mind, you don't know what's coming next. and you don't know how that feeling will change so it looks like fear or looks like anger or looks like sadness one moment can imperceptibly shift into something different and you know potentially there's great freedom in that because we think that we have you know we think that we

[27:01]

that we're a certain way, we think we're a certain way, and maybe we're not the way we think we are. So Sashin is a way we can find out that we're not the way we think we are. So it's really an opportunity to study our discontent, our suffering, but to do so has more like an investigation with no particular, no specific goal looks a certain way. It's just to become familiar with what we are and have the confidence that that familiarity ... the confidence that fundamentally we're okay.

[28:18]

And I can't explain why. So then he goes on to the second truth which is craving. So we have this craving that this is what causes suffering or causes dissatisfaction because we constantly want something. You know sometimes when I'm noticing my own the way my mind works or psychology works especially at work out in the world being active I'll notice these various characteristics that I have and that I don't that I see as being problematic mostly just being ego-centered and self-centered character and then the different

[29:30]

you know wanting that comes out of that. And then I think in sort of all the little complexities go with all those little wrinkles you know all the different situations where that shows up and then I think but it is just it's really just with all those little what about it just forget all those little details the details it's just the scenery if the fundamentally it's this attachment of wanting wanting wanting It looks like, you know, I want this particular thing and because my life is a certain way I want this particular thing, and so we're kind of constantly thinking about the thing, but if you just look at the energy of the wanting as being not maybe so necessary, and again, you can't just decide, oh I'm just going to stop wanting things, I'm just going to stop desiring, I'm going to stop craving. You can't. means for you to crave to stop craving but to again to not take that craving energy so much for granted leave some space.

[30:41]

Also I had this thought that you know the way that this sequence is presented see first there's First there's craving and then there's suffering, that's the way Buddha described it. First suffering arises out of craving. But I was thinking that ... I don't even want to take Buddha's words for granted, we should question even what he said. that it seems to me it's the it's reverse that actually suffering arises and and out of the suffering suffering comes up and out of suffering craving develops if you're let's see let me just take some very extremely neutral situation you're just sitting still That's no longer neutral.

[31:51]

Why is that not neutral? Just sitting still is no longer neutral. Okay, give me a neutral situation. Give me a neutral situation. Just sitting still. Oh, and you want a neutral situation. Holding the grocery bag. Okay, so you're holding the grocery bag. You don't have any particular feeling one way or the other. You're not happy or sad or excited or anything. You just sort of have a neutral feeling. It doesn't happen very often, but just say there's a microsecond where you have a neutral feeling. And then, oh, this is kind of boring, standing here with this grocery bag. I want more stimulation. So first of all there's a feeling of ... there's some feeling of what this is right now is not sufficient. So it's not so much the craving for something to replace it comes second.

[32:54]

It seems like first of all this isn't good enough. Right now is just not good enough. Some feeling that this is not good enough. So maybe we should just change the Second Noble Truth and maybe, you know, in 2006 the Buddhism shifted and can you give, what do you think? Kent? There wouldn't be any suffering. Right, that's what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying the wanting is the craving, so the craving comes first. Right. The wanting is the craving, but why would you start to want something?

[34:07]

That wanting... But where does it come from? That's the mystery. Tutki is somewhat of a mystery. I think the act that we're doing is that discovery of what that is and finding ways that that dukkha doesn't... In some ways, there's always delusion. I mean, as Mel was saying, we live in the delusion true. I like that since we're in this sasheen you know and we're sitting just still for seven days we have this chance to really start to notice in a more smaller way how this happens.

[35:18]

So that's what I'm kind of getting at is in a more small way how does this I don't know where it comes from but my experience is there's just some feeling of dissatisfaction, this isn't enough, this moment isn't enough, and then there's a craving to make it better, but there's an initial dissatisfaction. Does anybody know where it comes from? Charlie? on that practice, it seems to me there's less craving.

[36:19]

Because your intention is on the practice, it's not on being open to various alternatives. Fill in the blank. World beat. Ending hunger. Saving the redwood. So you think that everybody in the world has a practice? No. Very few people in the world have a practice. So why weren't they assigned one? They have been assigned one. It's, you know, killing the bad guys that are, you know, whatever it might be. Tamar?

[37:33]

Well, in the Vipassana tradition, what you do in a retreat, what I've done in retreats, is explore first just feeling. You know, feeling, I mean, actually sense experience. And then, after doing that for a day or two, you start to explore it. Feeling, and feeling is defined very narrowly as just, I like it, I don't like it, I don't care. And then, after a few more days of that, Then you explore the mental formations that arise out of I like, which is I'm going to try to get more of it. Or I don't like, which is I'm going to try to get away from it. So that's sort of the classic Buddhist approach to exploring the arising of suffering. And if you actually do it as a practice, in a very quiet, supportive way, situation and you get indoctrinated about it every morning at lecture, then it does seem to appear that, you know, oh, I feel something in my knee, I don't like it, I wish I could get out of here, why don't we have paper cushions, where's the belt in the ring?

[38:41]

You can sort of see it unfold in that way, but I don't think that necessarily means it's real. I think it's, that there is that practice. It's not just an idea how suffering unfolds. It arises out of an experience and a very kind of carefully investigated experience that you explore with a teacher in that lineage and it goes all the way back to Buddha. So it's not just what we think about, it's actually an experience. Well yeah, I would hope they would all be experience. Yeah, so we'd like you to sit and make a concept. Is it suffering or is it craving? That's a problem to explore with your experience. That's right. To try to decide or debate where does your craving come from, where does your suffering come from. Right. And the hint is that it starts with just a simple experience through your sense doors, which can also include your mind. So you can suddenly remember your mother in mind.

[39:45]

Maybe this is a bit heretical, but it seems like this is kind of a chicken and egg issue. That you have suffering that creates craving, craving creates more suffering. It's built on itself continuously. What we're doing here is breaking that cycle and saying, stop. Let's just do this. Hopefully we're breaking the cycle. I'd say we're paying attention to that cycle. I think... But when you pay attention, it tends to break. Right. Or just work to kind of level out. Yeah. But if you just... I guess my point I want to make is that it's that somehow what I trust is understanding is understanding if we decide this if we decide anything in advance we're not really understanding you know we've decided something in advance and now we're

[41:34]

we're kind of moving into what we decide ... now we're living in the past because we decided something in the past and now we're trying to go back in the past to do something with our past thought. But to understand actually in the same way as you understand what chocolate tastes like, you know, you don't have to go back in the past, it's like an experience, to actually in your own language, whatever mental physical language is your language, in your own language to feel this happening is what I think is the really ... is a part of mindfulness that doesn't get ... that sort of maybe taken for granted or not talked about, but It's not just ... it's observing, but it's observing ... it's very intimately observing, not observing from a distance.

[42:46]

Bob? whatever our understanding is of who we are is who's suffering. And that's what I'm saying, it's a moment-by-moment awareness. If you have some idea based on what's been said in the past, That could be helpful, but the who is something which you have to take care of right now. I do too.

[43:58]

Take one more now. I hear you saying that we have to bring language in some way. We have to become poets. I don't mean language like verbal language. I was using language in a very loose way. I'm sorry. I mean language in... I like that idea. Okay. Well, it works for some people, but others, like maybe music is a better language. So, I would say some kind of awareness. There's a better word than language. How do you know that you're aware without language? That's a really good question. It's a very good question. I can't answer it. Can somebody? Can? No, you have to answer that question.

[45:00]

No, she asked a good question. We don't want to move on until we finish that. Charlie? Were you telling me it was time to stop? Right, but Naomi's talking about direct perception which doesn't rely on thought, and you have to talk to somebody else to explain that. Last one, come on. No, return to silence.

[46:04]

Linda. I was going to say, babies don't have language, but they certainly have awareness. When I wake up in the morning, I don't immediately tell myself, I'm awake. But I know that I'm awake. I have that awareness. component of it during the day, so that I can be aware of it. But it happens all the time. But once I start thinking about it, then I get confused. Even though most of my awareness is non-verbal awareness. I don't have to tell myself about stepping, or being aware, or breathing. But once the consciousness gets in there, once the manas gets in there, it starts taking over and thinks, things can't go okay unless I'm telling myself that it's happening because I'm articulating it.

[47:04]

Okay, so I hope we're all ... don't know what we're doing exactly. Beings are numberless.

[47:20]

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