This is a curating circle of true practice of the true mind of faith and the true body of faith. The close relationship, formal structure and formless intimacy has been discussed over and over during this practice period.

[01:19]

I think I maybe first heard about this relationship from Suzuki Roshi when he said something like, with acquaintances you can be informal, but for intimacy we may need some formality. So some of our relationships are not so intimate, which is fine, and we don't need to have any formal commitment to understand how to pay respect to each other. But to be intimate, we may need formal procedures

[02:32]

in order to really relax into the intimacy. So, one example which some of you heard before is, I was with some grandchildren one time, and they were playing with my head, with their hands, to feel the funny feeling of my head. And then one of them put their hand in my mouth. You know, without any... a ring. But they felt intimate with me, so they thought they could do that. and their hand, or hands, maybe both of them had their hands in my mouth, tasted really bad.

[03:43]

And so I said, you can put your hands in my mouth, but they taste really dirty and bad. Really, really bitter taste. So please go wash them. So they both went and washed their hands and they came back and put their hands back in me. And I said, you didn't wash very well. wash them again. So they washed them again. And they came back and put the hands in their mouth, and the hands were clean. And, you know, it was fine. It was a formal procedure, a kind of intimacy. And they didn't know that form, so it was difficult for me to let them be intimate with me in that way.

[04:50]

And also I wanted them to know. I didn't tell them, next time ask me if you want to put your hands in your mouth and then we'll see whether your hands have been washed or not. But, yeah, we, in this room, we have formal procedures like that, like we ask people not to wear, use soap or perfume that will go into people's bodies, into their nose. Some people are not welcoming that. So we have formal procedures saying, please don't, bring in those strong orders, so we can be close to each other, so you can sit next to somebody, and they can accept that intimacy because it's not irritating their nose. And, yeah, Siddharth Girish used to go around, he used to carry a stick,

[05:59]

and put the stick on our back to check our posture with the stick. And for me, I can tell better. Also, I don't carry a stick so much anymore. So, I used to use a stick also, put a stick up to people's back. But now I also ask, I tell people, this is an intimate act which is offered to people who are in this room, If you want to be intimate with comments on your posture, not verbal usually, but physical comments, that will be available to you. But if you don't want that, please let me know, and I won't do it. I won't touch you. Touching you, of course, is quite intimate, especially in this room. So we ask. And if you don't want, it's respected. It's a formal structure so we can be intimate.

[07:05]

And saying you don't want to be touched is also a formal comment that actually does promote intimacy, of letting me know you do not want that. That's quite a description. These forms are ways for us to be intimate. And early in my experience at Zen Center, I realized that you cannot be intimate with lots of people. If you are, it creates a lot of disturbance. Because you're intimate with those people, but not those people. And there's jealousy, and Envy and disgust can arise when we're intimate with some people and not others. And I realize these forms and ceremonies allow us to be intimate with everybody.

[08:13]

And if anybody wants to be intimate, they can use these forms. They don't have to be intimate. They can use them. And so these forms offer a way for us to be intimate with everybody who wants to use the forms. and no one's left out. And the only people that are left out are people who don't want to use the forms. And sometimes people don't want to use the forms, but they want to be intimate. But the way they want to be intimate is not formal intimacy, it's their own way. And so to be intimate with them in that way, again, bothers other people. So none of the adults here are putting their hands in my mouth. And I think, yeah, we'd have to have a big meeting about whether that was something that was going to be offered to everybody.

[09:18]

But everybody can join their poems, and I can join my poems, and I can bow with everybody's. That act, it doesn't exclude anybody, except those who don't want to do it. And again, those who don't want to do those forms, they want to do something like put their hand in my mouth. You say, well, no, because nobody else can do that. And also, at a certain point, in that little room over there, I've been using that little room for 37 years, I don't know, it just became clear that sometimes people in that room would say, they didn't say, can I put your hand in your mouth, but they would say, can I hug you? They would often say it when, you know, they're just feeling like, they just want to hug me. Or they want a hug. They want a hug. They want it. It's not necessarily sexual in their mind.

[10:27]

But if you hug somebody in a private space, you don't know what's going to happen after that. So I say, well, it is okay to hug me, but if you want to hug me, you need to go outside in public, where everybody can see, and where everybody also could have a hug if they wanted one. But if you hug in this room, people can't see what's going on. And also, Hug him in that room. What's going on here? Does he have favorites? And maybe he does have favorites. However, because of the formality, the favorites and the unfavorites both get to do the forms. Favorites get to be intimate and favorites get to be intimate. You don't just... Join your palms and respectfully bow to your favorites.

[11:32]

You do it with everybody. So favorite and unfavorite can happen, I suppose. They're so nice and they're so... That can happen in the mind. Everybody is offered the form so we can be intimate with the people we're easy with and the people we have a hard time with. And they with us. Some people do not feel comfortable with me They want to avoid me. But because of the formal structures, I can tell that they want to avoid me. I can see them backing away because of the form. It's quite clear. Like, maybe they give me a half-hearted bhaga show. So the forms, even for those who don't want to participate, if they're in the container, the forms of those who do not want to participate, in the form, reveal something about them to the other people in the form.

[12:48]

the community will allow us to be intimate in these formal structures. And they're okay with it, as long as they know that if they wanted to, they also could be that intimate. Offering incense for the jisya, to offer for the jisya, the person who carries, For the jisya, to offer incense to the officiant, the doshi, is really intimate. And everybody that wants to be jisya can be jisya. And if the person's a jisya and they don't want to be a jisya, that's quite obvious. But that revelation of not wanting to be doing what they're doing is very intimate. Take away vera, it's intimate.

[13:58]

Revelation is great compassion, which is revealing. Great compassion both is intimacy, and the intimacy reveals resistance to the intimacy. Yeah, so, like yesterday, I invited people to come up, and Agent Roshi said, what's the form? So now we have a little form which will help us be intimate. We have the Oriyoki form. The Oriyoki form allows us to be intimate with each other. Once you know it, and especially if you are paying attention to it, then you might be able to also pay attention to everybody else's way of doing it. And then you can also be judgmental of them. It's important that you're watching carefully how other people are eating.

[15:03]

Usually we don't. Watch how people are using their spoon and fork in the diner. But here it's like, wow, how could you pick up your spoon like that? That was gross. How could you clean bowls like that? But also sometimes, that was really good the way you cleaned your bowls. That was really lovely. It's a way for us to really notice each other and then also notice how judgmental we are. The form helps us realize that we can praise ourself at the expense of others. This form shows us that. During session, we almost never go so far as to actually speak out loud about the way other people are doing their bowls. We're thinking that. Which is, you know, people are watching every little move I make with my hands.

[16:10]

Wow, that is intimate. But not just them towards me, but me offering them a way to get to know And that's why some people really have a hard time with this formal e-meal eating because they get so emotional about other people, the way they're doing it, and also about other people watching them. They can't stand the exposure of other people seeing the minute details of their hand-eye coordination. But they can. And there are endless stories in the formal city. One time at Tassajara during practice period, I noticed a pattern of one of the servers in the meditation hall.

[17:17]

And the pattern was, Every time he served me, one foot was straight and the other one was turned out. I don't remember which was which, but it was always this one was straight and that one was turned out. And I was kind of wondering, and I kept watching, is it going to happen again? Yes. Because, you know, I'm looking back, I can see people speak. I see. Not because I'm looking at them, but you happen to show them to me. You come in here and show me your feet. That's part of the structure. It's quite intimate. You show me your feet, you show me how you wash them, you show me how you put them. So this person did this. So one day I actually wanted to know, was he intentionally intentionally putting one straight and one out, or just by coincidence, did they always wind up that way? I was wondering. It seemed strange to me that there would always be one straight and one out. So I said, would I ask you a question about your posture?

[18:25]

And he said, yeah. He said, when you serve, I've noticed that when you stand firm, you're always one foot straight and one turns out. Is that intentional? I may, I think of... My boss says, are you aware of that? Are you aware that your feet are like that? Just like I might say to somebody who comes into the room, this room, and always steps in with their right foot in this room. I'm like, I'm watching. Right foot instead of their left. Have you noticed that you step in with your left foot? Have you noticed that? Have you? Yeah. Have you? Yeah. So, if somebody stepped in with their right foot consistently, and I happened to see it, I'd say, could I ask you a question about your posture? And they might say yes, and I might say, have you noticed that you step in with your right foot? So in this case I said, have you noticed that your feet are like that when you're serving me?

[19:30]

And he said, so what? Potentially so what? And I said, I was just wondering, I just wondered, that's all. I was surprised that they're always that way. Just interested. I was. I wasn't trying to get him. I didn't even know, should I get him to make both straight, or both out, or both turned in? I didn't have some agenda. I was just mystified by this human behavior, which, because of the form of him showing his knees over and over, I was intimately aware of how he stood. And so I intimately had that question, which I shared with him and was shocked, I guess.

[20:31]

And he did not appreciate it. And this is a person I was on, you know, this wasn't somebody who I... He doesn't want me to talk to him about anything. Some people, they feel like they're saying, do not talk to me about anything. They give me this, because of the forums, they give me this message, do not talk to me. They do a gassho, which is kind of, don't talk to me, and don't give me any feedback on the way I'm doing. Okay, I get the message. People can tell me a lot by the way they put their hands together. People don't go like this, but they do give other body languages, like, leave me alone. I'll bow to you, but leave me alone. And, of course, occasionally people don't even bow, which is kind of a clear message, especially if I bow to them and they don't bow back. It does happen. Can you imagine that you would respectfully bow to somebody and they bow back?

[21:35]

It occasionally happens. But you can also tell how heartily it responds to your offer, right? Have you ever seen that? Maybe not. Stay long enough, you'll see it. So anyway, he said, so what? And that was the end of that. And he served me. Both feet were straight. And I wasn't like, whoopee, I got under straight in his feet. I was like, interesting. Wow. Interesting. Now, I wouldn't say it was that intentional. And they were straight. And I never actually said, did you intentionally straighten your feet? And we had other conversations, but I never said, did you intentionally straighten my feet? He never said, after that I really worked on my feet.

[22:38]

I didn't hear any more about it. But I thought it was really interesting. Then 15 years later, after he left Tassajara and was living in another part of the country. One of his friends, he talked to one of his friends, and his friend told me that that interaction with me around his feet was the most important thing that happened to him at Tassajara. That was his deepest learning experience. I wasn't doing some magical trick. I was just noticing his feet because... and asking questions about what I was wondering about. This is what's possible when we're intimate together. We can ask questions that are very, very touching, that make... And we don't...

[23:42]

We don't mean to be deep, we just notice stuff that you only would notice if you're intimate. And all this, of course, is to be done, and again, Sri Guruji was really quite good about that, to be done in a kind way so that the person can, like, just feel the intimacy, not even feel it, just experience and... Like that example of him just listening to the way I was chanting and making a few gentle comments. He didn't insult me, he just was commenting intimately on the slight changes in my voice. And I conclude my talk by championing, praising the great function of intimacy that's possible when we have forms and ceremonies, and how it can work for everybody without favorites and unfavorites.

[25:01]

Everybody that wants to do it can be... anybody who wants to do it can be a Zen teacher. But you can't really be a Zen teacher if you don't get into the formal container and interact with people and get about your feet and your hands and your voice and your posture. If you don't do that, you don't get trained in the way that makes you a Zen teacher, a Zen person. But if you want to do it, It's available if you want. It's not available if you don't want to do it. You're not there. But if you want to, you can do this training, and you have done it in this sashin and in this practice period. You have done it. You have been really wholehearted, and it is. And I don't know all that you've learned, but I know you've learned a lot.

[26:05]

about yourself and about your friends. And you probably don't know how much you've helped your friends by you holding up these forms. You hold up these forms, they benefit. They learn about themselves because you are doing this. And you learn about it because they're helping you. And we all learn about it when we personally upload the forms. So that was just a brief introduction, but it took up almost all the time we had. So I want to thank you all for holding this formal conversation so that great compassion can function through these forms and ceremonies, through being supported by these forms and ceremonies.

[27:09]

You've done so well, I'm so happy for all of us. And also I want to thank the people who are not in the Zendo as much as us, who had supported this, the kitchen, who has made our meals. Thank you so much to the kitchen. And to the senior staff who have been our leaders in serving and who have been our leaders and also working in the kitchen also. The senior staff has been so supportive behind the scenes of this session. So everybody at Green College has really made a tremendous contribution. You're kind of like the world. And then these people are like the honey, the honeycomb that they're holding us to do our work.

[28:12]

Honeybees and Manjushri have a lot in common. Honey bees bring to the hive wax and honey to make sweetness and light. Do you understand? We use wax to make candles, right? Bees give us the ingredients for sweetness and light. means sweetness and light, or sweet splendor. Is there anything any of you wish to formally offer? Great Assembly. I see two people. Yes. Thank you.

[29:45]

I'd like to pay homage in two directions, or maybe three, and also ask a question about the forms and the formality of them. I'll wish you Tenshin Moshi for your willingness to have conversations. I know I'm one of the difficult ones. I appreciate your bringing, taking care of yourself, taking care of me, and keep coming to me for these connections and contacts. A lot of Zen practice or any meditation practice swirls with me a little bit. I have a lot of questions. Could you move your microphone just a little bit farther away? Yeah. Is it better? I think so, yeah. Okay. And then I homage... to my BIPOC brothers and sisters who are here. It's great, so great to have a presence of BIPOC people.

[30:52]

It just makes so much, it's so important to me for my learning and acknowledging systemic cruelty and walking with it. So I appreciate that. And then my question about the forms is, when I first came here, the first day I was here, I was given five different corrections by five different people on my body. And I was totally open to it. I was like, sure, you can give me a correction. I might have some back issues, so I might not be able to do what you say, but go for it. So I got corrected all the time. It didn't bother me. It didn't bother me. One day when I was singing, I was corrected on the fact that I tend to move while I sing. And it really triggered in me sort of my roots of davening in the Jewish community.

[31:57]

And I just turned to this person and I said, I do do that, don't I? And I won't be doing it your way. I set a boundary. And I do, you know, there's always that issue of of what's a gift to all of us, like the Zen practice, and the fact that I'm not Japanese, this could be sort of culturally appropriated. So it's a fine dance, because I do believe these ideas are open to all of us. So I guess my question has to do with the individual. I mean, if I was that guy... Like, what if he wasn't able to... I could feel really under the... Anyway, so what are your thoughts about that? Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is you used the word corrected. Right. So I... In this world that we live in now, I almost never use the word corrected.

[33:00]

I don't correct people. I don't. I don't correct people, and I don't think I correct people, and that's not what I'm into. What I'm doing, I give people gifts. Like, I give people feedback on what they're doing. Like recently in one of our meetings, I was talking to someone and after we finished he said, he said to me, thank you for the correction. And I just let that go. But later I thought, what I was doing was not correcting. I was turning his words. He was saying these things and I would turn his words a little bit. Kind of like I was putting my hands in his mouth. and turning his words. Like Susikarashi was listening to me and turning my words. So I don't correct. I'm no more correct than you.

[34:03]

That's the first thing that comes to mind. These forms are not for correcting each other, They're for interaction. And it's an interaction where the person might be up for. Like if they give me an altar, they might be up for me commenting on the way they gave it to me, and the way their hand was on the object. Like, was it like this, or was it like this? But I'm not correcting them, I'm just giving them feedback. And then in that interaction, We're quite intimate. That's the point. And then we do it again. We make the offering again, or we do that, whatever. So, that's my first response. Second response is, when the person commented and you had that response, If they thought you were correcting, I would feel like that would be an opportunity, but maybe too much to say, are you correcting me, or are you just giving me information?

[35:13]

But the thing is that in that quite intimate interaction, you're actually getting to something that's really important to you, you're singing, you have some feeling that happens to you when you do that. Like yesterday somebody brought up, this person's adding, adding, adding. So people are adding to you rather than honoring you and giving you information about something. You might feel uncomfortable. And so in that interaction you could take care of yourselves and then you could say, I hear you and I... I hear my difficulty about what you said. I hear you and I thank you and I just want you to know I may not be following your suggestion, but I hear it. And so that would be a very wonderful opportunity for you too, for you to get to know how you feel when people speak to you that way, for them to see you deal with it skillfully, hopefully, and then for them to see how you can come back to them with a skillful, grateful response.

[36:35]

That's the point of these ceremonies. So at the end, there's also maybe a... a sort of a meticulous kind of attention and trace. It's not something I'm good at, so I do appreciate it. I guess I just want you to know that, you know, the framework of, like, getting me to be in a cookie cutter, like, there is that. It does take your attention. I am going to be a little bit triggered, like, it just, I'm not going to necessarily feel like I'll fit or belong no matter how many times I work on it. I understand. I have not felt it since in myself, like people are trying to get me to be a cookie cutter. But sometimes I do feel like a cookie cutter practitioner. I do feel that sometimes. And then that's something for me to try to relax with. and welcome, and then say, I heard you, in brackets, try to put me into that form. But again, I go to my teacher.

[37:41]

My teacher, I didn't feel like he was trying to put me into anything. But he was giving me gifts. Again, one of the first things he taught me was how to carry the stick, when we had the stick. He taught me the walking style. And I didn't feel like he's making me cookie-cutter. I thought, he's giving me a gift. He's giving me his love and showing me his way of walking. which, by the way, I don't do anymore, the way he taught me, because I don't carry the stick. But he did. I felt like I came here for him to give me gifts, and he did. But some people might be trying to put you into a cookie-cutter practitioner. They may be trying to do that to you. These are not your teachers, these are your... These are your siblings, or even the new people are going to try to correct you.

[38:49]

And that's kind of painful that people are trying to correct you, make you the way they think you should be. And when we have forms, that can happen. It's part of the mix. Like when I said to that guy about the things, he might have thought I was trying to make his feet straight. I don't know what he thought. He didn't get into it. I was not. But you may think people are doing that, and that is really disrespectful if people are trying to get you to be any other person you are, rather than help you realize who you are. And Suzuki Roshi helped me realize who I am, not help me be somebody who I wasn't. I think I'm truly stillness and I really appreciate the help. So the microphone down.

[40:03]

We don't have a forum for that. So can't really give her much feedback. I have... Is that okay? Yeah, it's good for me. Is it good for everybody? A little longer. Confession and repentance around forms and my relationship with forms, which I'm deeply grateful for forms now. There was a time when I wasn't.

[41:07]

I have been noticing, as many of you may have noticed, that at times I have a relationship with form that can interfere with my relationship with Sangha. What is that relationship with forms that can interfere with your relationship with Sangha? Fear. And last night I had an experience of that at the door to the Zendo after formal sitting. And I felt an impact on another Sangha member. It helped me become more intimate. with what happens here that I hadn't been aware of.

[42:12]

We were both coming and approaching the door, and I hadn't sat after formal and didn't know the form, and asked the other sangha member if they had been sitting, and they hadn't. And I didn't. I wasn't conscious of it at the time, but now I recognize that some fear arose in me, wanting to have the form and know. And I had just seen Valerian, so I turned, I said, oh, I asked the other person to wait. This feels now like I'm entangling someone else in my own karmic relationship. Oh, wait, and I'll go ask Valerian. But this wasn't the other person's problem. This was my own. Anyway, first I want to confess and repent.

[43:19]

entangling this is not the first time that this has happened i think maybe many of you have experienced this with me um entangling others and and i'm learning like i'm i'm grateful at the same time that i am repenting oh in the then and now i have sat with and learned a lot about what happens in his mind and body around form, and part of what's difficult is, and I'm grateful for, is noticing how it interferes with my relationship with others. There's a way that I separate or... Does that make sense? Any words?

[44:21]

Actually, I have something. I heard you confess that you felt somewhat uncomfortable about entangling others in your life. Is that right? In my karmic... In your karmic life. Yes. So this is a big response, which is a lot of people think that, you know, if it's a bad thing, then you should get rid of it. And other people getting implicated or involved in your entanglement is really not a good thing. But we have an entangled person The two entangled people in intimacy can free each other.

[45:29]

The key factor is, are you aware that you're bringing your entanglement to another person and sharing it with them? Are they ready to meet your entanglement. Are you ready to meet theirs? So, yeah, you already are entangled with everybody. But we need to Bring compassion to that. And we need some form to address it. How do you use your hands? When do you speak? May I touch your back? No, you may not. These are opportunities to realize how entangled we are.

[46:38]

with great love and kindness, great kindness, respect, and, you know, generosity to allow the entanglement to be the entanglement, to give the entanglement to the entanglement here, give the entanglement to the entanglement there. That is the transmission of the Dharma, that mutual intimate working with entanglement. I am an entanglement, you are an entanglement, you are entangled. So this school is taught not only about getting rid of the entangling vines, but use tangling vines to free tangling vines. This is the transmission of Dharma. But it has to be done very deeply, respectfully. you know, gently.

[47:45]

And sometimes if we're not in a mood to be calm, generous, respectful, then we cannot at this point get . It's not time. So maybe then we just be quiet and give ourselves and others some space. But the real transmission comes when we find a way to offer something which is entangling, if the person's ready for it. May I ask you a question? Yes. Have you noticed where your feet are? So what? Okay, fine. But we made the offer. The entanglement was offered to the entanglement. And that was the most important thing that happened to that person.

[48:50]

So to, excuse the expression, to dump my entanglement on people is not intimate. I have a lot of entanglement. You want it? You want it? I got some entanglement for you. You want it? No, thank you. Okay. Maybe another day? Yeah, maybe. But if someone says to me, I have some entanglement for you. If somebody says, I have some entanglement for you. Do you want me? Do you want to hear it? I might say, yes, please. I'm here to receive the gift of your entanglement as you see it. And I will try to receive it without... the slightest resistance. And if I feel resistance, I want to tell you, I'm not quite ready. That's enough for now. Thank you. Thank you.

[49:53]

You're welcome. Can I say one more thing? Yes. The container and the support, because there's something in the intimacy of the form and the container and sangha that has allowed me to touch and be available to a place of fear that hasn't been available before. So gratitude. And I just wanted to acknowledge my to confess and acknowledge my rupture of other Sangha member. So again, earlier you said that fear was getting in the way of your relationship with Sangha. And when you said that, I thought, fear is a member of the Sangha.

[50:56]

It's not in the way. It's a Sangha member. And if you don't take care of this Sangha member, that's going to interfere with your relationship with the Sangha. Yes. Not taking care of this Sangha member interferes with your relationship with everybody else. Not taking care of fear, which is a Sangha member, of your relationship with all the people. So fear isn't really getting in the way. Fear is a Sangha member who's calling for compassion. And if you take care of the fear, which is a Sangha member, then that will open the door to your relationships to the other Sangha members who are... So nothing's in the way. Everything is a sangha member. Everything is a being calling for your compassion. If you don't give compassion to any being, that won't get in the way of your relationship with the rest of the sangha.

[51:59]

So I've only corrected you. I was turning the world. Thank you for the gift. You're welcome. One time in this valley about 50 years ago, I was feeling kind of like cold towards somebody. Talk to that person. for that kind of thing. And I noticed that that person was very warm with another person. And the other person was very warm and friendly to that person. And the other person that had with that person was friendly with me. So I was friends with him, he was friends with her, she was friends with him, but I wasn't friends with her.

[53:11]

Something's weird there. How can we have these two people that are friends, and one of them is really... And I'm not... Anyway, that really was helpful, to see how ridiculous that is, to be friends with people, to not be friends with people who are friends with each other, and friends with you. How can you do that? Well, we can. That's a form. That form showed me that. So, again, thank you so much, unless there's something else. Somebody in the back? Yes, somebody in the back, please come. Whoever it is. It is... It's our drummer. Yay! Yeah. Excuse me, I should have said, may we clap for you?

[54:15]

May I say something before you speak? Sure. I'd like to apologize to you. I think it would have been good for me to say, Brian, could we express our appreciation to you for your drumming last night? And you could say, no, thank you. Thank you for your apology. He said, thank you for your apology. I wanted to express gratitude toward someone who used discernment to slightly break a form out of compassion. The other night, Someone stopped me and made eye contact and got my attention to notify me that there was a gecko on the floor in Cloud Hall during Kenyon. And it was quite slow, maybe slower than us. Good point. Slower than us. Can you hear that, Rosie?

[55:43]

Rosie? There was a gecko on the floor in Cloud Hall. You know the gecko? Can you hear me? Yes. There was a gecko on the floor, and someone informed Brian about the gecko. And we transferred it outside. I just wanted to express... That I was grateful that the... I'm grateful that the forms are not... This was a very small example of using discernment within the forms. So part of the Bodhisattva precepts is, in a sense you could say, some people might say, the precepts about being quiet in Cloud Hall during teaching If violating that precept would help it violate the precept, if keeping the precept would hurt a gecko, you should not keep it, even though usually it's a beneficial form.

[56:53]

Be quiet and cloud-holding and keen-headed. But if it would help people, we really should do that terrible thing and say it was a gecko. Yes. I'm not sure what intimacy is.

[58:42]

Nobody knows what it is. Even the 10,000 sages don't know. It's a question that came up during my sitting, just the word intimacy. Because you mentioned at some point great compassion is intimate with everything. And it also is the intimacy of everything with everything. It's not actually intimate with, because it doesn't have objects. It is the intimacy. That's what I'm saying. I'm wondering if you have any other ways to say that.

[59:53]

What you just said is the way I have of saying it. You just spoke for me, and you said it for me in another way just now. That's the way it is, is that you are speaking this intimacy as well as I might say it. It's again, it's how we're doing everything together. It's the way I'm doing it by myself, and I can't do it by myself, and you're not doing it for me, we're doing it together. That's always the case, in my understanding of great compassion. It's nothing we know about.

[61:02]

It's what we already really are and always will be. Yeah, I'm noticing that here with me is in exploring that, that word and that statement. I think in some sense, I have a sense of that truth, perhaps, or just some sense of what that is. And It feels like I forget that, and so I'm almost like... You forget what?

[62:06]

The sense? Yes. And in exploring it... May I say something to that? The sense of it is not it. The sense of it is something to study. By studying the sense of it, it will be revealed. But it's not a sense. is if you meditate on that sense, you will discover the actual intimacy. The sense is a meditation for you. It's a Dharma door, to the Dharma door, to the Dharma door. Many people have asked me during this session, like the intimacy or the great compassion, is this something you can feel?

[63:11]

And I say, yeah, you can feel it, but the feeling is not it. However, the feeling is like your sense. It's a dormitory to the actual great compassion. So your sense is a precious thing to meditate on. But it's not the great compassion, because great compassion is no object. It is already completely what you are. And the sense can help you realize that, if you take care of the sense and not think that that's it. Okay. Okay, I think I'll continue exploring that.

[64:16]

Yeah. I suppose like, yeah, it's just something that I'm drawn to sort of ritualize in some way or some form so I could remember I've been meditating, even though it's, so that's where some of these explorations are coming from. I don't know, I'm drawn to it. Well, so in the Chandabhanu service we say that all this does not appear within perception. All this is great compassion. It doesn't appear within perception, it doesn't appear within sense, it doesn't appear within feeling, it doesn't appear within intuition. However, all those things The ritual part is, all those things can be meditated on to realize what is beyond them.

[65:23]

So the ritual would put that teaching into practice. That makes it a ritual. A ritual meditation that helps you explore. This is not going to be it, this is going to be the way you realize it, by meditation. Okay. Feels good? Good enough? Thank you. You're welcome. But T.S. Eliot says, old men need to be explorers. Okay. Well, I wanted to mention something that I've learned in this practice period.

[67:18]

That I just realized. Being here today. My first I got here a few days a week late because of a COVID exposure. So I got here. I didn't know there was a in the great culture. Thing. May I give you some feedback? So a couple of days after I got here, somebody who I know was a friend says to me, may I give you some feedback? I said, of course you can. Why did you even ask that? And then she said, oh, The Shusil comes around in the morning and does his Jindo and you're supposed to raise your hand. Looks like you didn't know that. Didn't know that.

[68:21]

Thank you. Could you hear her? No. The feedback was she got instruction about the Shusil coming in and doing the Jindo in the opposite direction. Her friend gave her that feedback and she didn't know about that. But the thing that struck me was before she was my friend, we're informal with each other all the time, and she asked me in a kind of formal way, may I give you some feedback? Yeah, it's a form. Yeah, and I, of course, why would you ask that, you know? And then, but I still hadn't really absorbed this cultural practice here. And later, much later... I spoke to somebody without asking that question. You know, when somebody says, can I give you some feedback, it's kind of a euphemism. Like, if you want to tell somebody that they're just lovely and gracious, you don't usually have to ask for permission.

[69:30]

But if you say, may I give you some feedback, it implies that maybe something wasn't quite right or felt not right. It did. Or maybe they need some help. So I didn't ask for permission to give that kind of feedback. I just gave it. And the person got very mad at me. And just now, I've been sort of chewing on that, like, the meaning of that exchange we had. And just now I realized, oh, I should have asked permission to give that feedback. I should have said something courteous. Yeah. So I learned that.

[70:33]

That's all. Congratulations. That's very important. I might, if I may, add that if I want to give people positive feedback, I also say, would you like me to give you some feedback? Even if it's positive. Because they may not be in the mood for any kind of feedback.

[71:39]

Anyway, but I might feel like I have a... Like with Brian's drumming, I think I should have asked him before. When I gave him that appreciation, I could see he was shocked by it. And that was not really more intimate to say, Brian, may we give you something, may we praise you. I'd like to say that I'm about to apologize to the person to know I did that, and to say that I learned something from that, including the anger, which is a pretty intimate thing. You could ask the person, may I give you some feedback? And they say, yes, I really learned a lot from the gift you gave me. Thank you so much. That could be a feedback. It would really help me. Let's see, there's Drew, double pointers to Drew, and Merit.

[72:51]

Please make yourself comfortable if you can. If you're uncomfortable, please don't push yourself into too much discomfort. Don't push yourself into any discomfort. Be comfortable. Hello. Hello. Can everyone hear me? Louder? Okay. Can you hear him, Rosie?

[74:04]

Louder. Louder? How's that, Rosie? Excellent. Great. Okay. Just a second for my heart to stop beating. Stop beating? No, no, no, no. Don't wait for that. I wanted to make a confession to the Great Assembly. While sitting, there arose a turning of my head and a looking toward others.

[75:21]

I thought maybe they were making a mistake. And there was a question that was met with, what's happening here? Why? Maybe instead of going into this long explanation, I could simply say, there arose a realization that, at least in the last two days of session, that many of the thoughts that are arising are of others. And when observed very carefully,

[76:26]

When questions are asked, where does the judgment originate? Where does that judgment originate from what has come up many times that I feel inferior? And because of that, I feel superior and that both feeling superior and feeling inferior sort of all day long and it's a very subtle, very very subtle, subtle thing and I don't know how that has affected for the entirety of my life, this life, or how it has affected this great assembly.

[77:54]

And I also recognize that it is human nature to feel both inferior and superior. Though I see it and deeply sorry for how it may have and still will affect others. Because it's not something I feel like it's something that I'm able to... It seems like it's a continuous unfolding. I heard you say it doesn't seem like something you can stop. That is a continuous unfold. And my question is, how do you want to practice, or what practice do you want to come to meet these jebus?

[79:10]

What practice do you want to meet? Careful observation. Careful observation. observation that's full of care, and love, and kindness, and patience, and generosity. Is that how you want to practice with these? Yes, that's what I aspire to. We support you. We support that practice. Are you up for one more?

[80:20]

Or do you want to stop? One more. One more. All right. Do you want to be the one more, Merritt? OK. Offer the perspective of someone who's been in the kitchen this week.

[81:44]

That's okay. I have been in a practice period here and recently made the decision to opt into the kitchen instead of sitting with everyone. And I was always curious what I would feel like at the end of this week. It was a good decision. It was wise. I would feel resentment or happiness. And sort of the week has arrived now and As is the nature of things, there's a lot of impermanence in my own perspective. I started out and had some exhaustion and a little resentment and eventually, and kind of throughout actually, I noticed a lot of the energy of the Great Assembly here sort of in a secondary way, but it came through the container even in the kitchen. Just everyone's uprightness and discipline and enthusiasm.

[82:47]

And that was very supportive in the other direction to the kitchen members. I think I can speak on behalf of some other people there too that I thought of myself initially as being a support for the true practice period here of the sitting Great Assembly. But actually, as we all know, that it works very directly in both directions. And that even sitting here in this room, I didn't necessarily believe that my efforts in this room had a tangible, impact on things happening outside of this room. It seemed like most of the changes were very internal or psychological or whatever, but that you're sitting here this week gave me a lot of purpose and who knows what the downstream effects of that are on the world and other people too. And so if you have doubt about what you're doing here is actually a very noble thing and does have tangible impact.

[83:55]

And I can finally attest to that outside of here. And to change and, you know, ultimately today came around and I feel really pleased with the whole thing and really proud of everyone in this room. So I just wanted to share that with you all and thank you for supporting me too, and making this a positive experience. That's so great. Thank you so much. I think everybody here is really happy to hear what you said, that they've been helping me in the kitchen. It's great. That's what we want, right? I wanted to go both directions. Thank you so much. I couldn't end it. Thank you so much.

[84:53]

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