Good morning. Today is the last day of our seven-day Rohatsu Seshin. Rohatsu is Buddha's enlightenment commemoration. So it's a sashin that we have to commemorate Shakyamuni Buddha's enlightenment and it falls usually on December 8th according to our tradition and so we've been sitting from 5 in the morning till 9 something 9, 10 every day and so today is the last day and the day that we have the ceremony for Shakyamuni Buddha and so we also had on December 3rd or 4th we have

[01:26]

the annual memorial service for Suzuki Roshi. So we do both of those at the same time during Sashin. And so I've been using a text or a talk of Suzuki Roshi's and commenting on it. And today I'm going to use a talk of Suzuki Roshi's comment on it about Sishing and Enlightenment. It seems like these two subjects are appropriate for today. So in this talk, Suzuki Roshi talks about after seishin.

[02:35]

How do you practice after seishin? So he says, Huineng, That's Daikon Eno. The sixth ancestor said, to dwell on emptiness and keep a calm mind is not Zazen. He also said, just to sit in a cross-legged posture is not Zen. Sorry. At the same time, I always say to you, just sit. If you don't understand what our practice is and stick to the words, you will be confused. This is one of the biggest problems we have, you know, is people stick to words. When you read something, you have to know how to, as Suzuki Roshi says, read the other side of the page.

[03:41]

We say, read between the lines. So if we don't understand what our practice is and stick to the words, you'll be confused. But if you understand what real Zen is, you will know that the ancestors' words are a kind of warning for us. Now, our Sashin is almost at an end. And soon, you'll be going back to your homes and becoming involved in your everyday activity. If you have been practicing true zazen, you may be happy to go back to your everyday life. I think everybody here has been practicing true zazen. You may feel encouraged to go back, but if you feel hesitant to go back to your city life or everyday life, it means that you still stick to zazen.

[04:44]

I wish this Seshin wasn't over. People feel that way. I felt that way many times. You know, I kind of hate to get back to the world out there. That is why the sixth ancestor said, if you dwell on emptiness and stick to your practice, that is not true Zazen. I remember after Seshin, Suzuki Roshi would say, just go to work tomorrow. Don't think about, I've just done seven days of Sesshin. Just get up in the morning, go to work, and face that direction without clinging or without holding on to some feeling that you have in Sesshin. without trying to hold on to your samadhi just wake up with whatever feeling you have in the morning and go to work go about your business forgetting all about what you did yesterday when you practice zazen, moment after moment you accept what you have right now

[06:14]

in this moment and you are satisfied with everything that you do because you just accept it. You don't have any complaints. That is Zazen. No complaints. You just accept everything as it is. Because you just accept it, you don't have any complaints. That is Zazen. Even if you cannot do that, you know that that's what you should do. then sitting Zazen will encourage you to do something else. Just as you accept your painful legs while sitting, you accept your difficult everyday life. Sitting life may be more difficult than your Zazen practice. So Zazen practice will encourage you, he says, to have more difficulties. But I think what he means is to accept the difficulties that come to you. You're still doing zazen if you can do this.

[07:22]

Just accept whatever difficulties or whatever problems face you. If you understand zazen in that way, that is the right understanding. If you come to have a real taste, excuse me, a taste of real practice, especially in this seven-day sitting, and then return to your busy activity without losing the taste of practice, that would be a great encouragement. So people say, well, what can I bring to my practice, what can I bring to my everyday life from Zazen? Well, just don't stop sitting. Because sitting doesn't necessarily mean to sit in cross-legged position. True sitting should accompany you everywhere. Should be your mode of life. If true sitting is your mode of life, you won't really have any complaints.

[08:25]

No matter what happens. Because you can accept everything as practice. When you accept everything as practice, accept everything from the point of view of practice, you can deal with everything or anything. This is what Suzuki Roshi means by, wherever you are, you will be the boss. It doesn't mean that you boss everybody around. It simply means that nothing can turn you over. So when you practice, real practice, during sasheen, wholeheartedly accepting everything that happens, then this is what carries you over into your daily life. And this is the attitude that you retain in your daily life as practice. How do we accept everything as it comes?

[09:31]

As practice. then even though you have big problems, they're not problems in the same way that problems ordinarily become problems. So, he says, even though it is difficult, and even though you are busy, you always have the taste of calmness in your mind, not because you stick to it, but because you enjoy it. so you don't stick to your practice you enjoy your practice and you enjoy there's some deep joy that we have that is not dependent on circumstances usually joy is the opposite of sadness or despair or a bad feeling.

[10:40]

But this kind of joy is a joy that is not dependent on circumstances. It's just always there no matter what happens. And it's the joy of the acceptance of everything, the open mind, the open heart, And this is what is our true nature. Somebody asked me, when am I going to experience my true nature? We experience our true nature all the time, but we don't always realize it. It's not something that you can separate out from the rest of your life. There's a difference between sticking to it and enjoying it. When you enjoy it, you don't have to stick to it. So if you have a real taste of practice, you can enjoy it all the time, incessantly, no matter what you do.

[11:46]

So it's interesting. How do you enjoy yourself? People say, well, please enjoy yourself. You know, have a good meal. Enjoy yourself. go to a movie and enjoy yourself but what does it mean to enjoy yourself without any prop or without any um No toy enjoyment. To just enjoy the self. To settle on the self and to enjoy the self without any illusions. So to enjoy the self. Enjoy the pleasure, to enjoy the pain, to enjoy the disappointment, to enjoy the appointment.

[12:55]

Whatever occurs, the enjoyment is there, because you're enjoying your true Self. So if you can appreciate everything that happens, you won't miss your true Self. He says, when taste is not something you stick to, or something you have to recall, that is true enlightenment. Something you have to recall, you know, we have a taste of something. And during sasheen, often we have a taste of something. We'll be walking outside and suddenly, you know, the whole body and mind will drop away and we just feel like light is a feather and some unusual buoyancy of life without any hindrance and we think, this is enlightenment.

[14:11]

It's not not enlightenment. But because we have that big flash, and because we're told that enlightenment comes suddenly, and because we're secretly expecting something, even though we're told not to expect anything, we think, this is it. And so we want to keep recalling that. everything else seems like it's not it. This is the problem with expecting some kind of big experience, because when you expect some big experience, the rest of your life is only something leading up to that experience and not worthwhile. So we have to be able to see the enlightenment in the most mundane, unappealing circumstances.

[15:15]

Ordinary mind is the way, as Nansen says. Joshu says, what is the way? Nansen says, ordinary mind. But what is ordinary mind? Ordinary means enlightenment. Enlightenment is just ordinary. But we're looking for something extraordinary called enlightenment. Our true nature is simply nirvana. If it wasn't, what could Nirvana be? Some big prize in the sky? You may think you attained enlightenment, but if you are busy or in some difficulty and think you need to have that experience again, that is not real enlightenment because that enlightenment is something you're sticking to.

[16:22]

So we have an experience and then we... but you know I had this enlightenment experience and then gradually it disappeared. And I've been trying to regain that ever since. Sorry folks. Nothing ever repeats itself. This is an unrepeatable universe so far. so far as we know, in this world anyway. There may be some, you know, we don't know what's out there in the cosmos. There may be a repeatable world where it's Groundhog Day. So, he says, Real enlightenment is always with you. There's no need for you to stick to it or even to think about it.

[17:22]

Because it's always with you, difficulty itself is enlightenment. Your busy life itself is enlightened activity. That is true enlightenment. Even though you want to have a taste of true practice, it may be difficult to have it. The only way to have it is just to continue right practice with the right instruction and the right teacher. Sorry. If you do your practice regularly, then naturally someday you will have a taste of it. Regularly is a very important word here. Yesterday I was talking about your teacher. If you don't feel that your teacher is giving you a problem, then you probably are not, there's something missing in your practice. And I got a lot of response to that one during doksan.

[18:24]

But I think we have to understand what I mean here. I don't mean that everybody should come and ask for a problem. You already have a big problem. Teachers, you know, teacher's role is to encourage your practice. That's the teacher's role, to encourage your practice and to help you to maintain the way. That's the teacher's role. The teacher is not a psychiatrist or a therapist. It's simply a guide to help you on your path and to give you encouragement and guidance. So when we come up against practice, there's a kind of problem.

[19:30]

How much should I practice? Should I practice whole-heartedly or three-quarters-heartedly? Half-heartedly? So this is the scale on which the teacher is evaluating your practice. This is one scale on which your teacher is evaluating your practice. Whatever you do, Practice is not practice unless it's wholehearted. It doesn't mean that you have to spend all day in Zendo. It simply means that whatever you do, the quality of your practice should be wholehearted. That's the basic criteria for practice. If it's not wholehearted, it's not Zen practice. That's all. It's something. It may be sitting Zazen or, you know, coming to talk or whatever. But your practice has to be wholehearted because wholeheartedness is where enlightenment shows itself.

[20:36]

It doesn't reveal itself in half-hearted activity. Enlightenment is thoroughness. So, Zen practice should bring out your deepest spirit. That's why Sashin is difficult. You know, the first time you sit Sashin, you think, how can anybody do this? Sitting seven days with your legs crossed. Painful legs, you know. Zazen after Zazen after Zazen. It's a little crazy. because this brings out something in you that you didn't think you could, it brings out an effort in you that you didn't think you had.

[21:38]

And this, that's why we say, Satsin itself, or Zazen itself, when it's wholehearted, is itself enlightenment. Because it's wholehearted practice, wholehearted practice, and brings forth enlightenment, and enlightenment brings forth wholehearted practice. So anyway, And then there are a lot of other things that, you know, are problems that, a huge variety of other problems that come up that the teacher deals with with students.

[22:44]

And to accept your problems, is also important to know how to really accept and face the problems that you have, which are actually your key to practice. If we don't have a problem, it's hard to practice because there's nothing to take on. You have to take something on. taking on the problem that you have. I don't try to give people problems. I try to work with the problem that a person already has. And so, and allow you to work with it. But sometimes people don't like that, you know. Sometimes I become somebody's father or mother or something and then they don't like their mother or their father and so they beat me up.

[23:53]

But a teacher has to be very flexible and allow that to happen to a certain extent. But as I said yesterday, if the student should be able to hopefully relate to the teacher the way you would expect the teacher to relate to you. So anyway, so he says, even though you have a taste of practice, it may be difficult to have it. The only way to have it is just to continue right practice with the right instruction and the right teacher. If you do your practice regularly, then naturally someday you will have a taste of it. You know, not every teacher is right for every student. So it's good to find the right teacher.

[24:57]

But the right teacher may not be the one that you like the most. Maybe the one that gives, that helps you to progressiveness. Nowadays, young people make dates. This is before the 90s, I think. Young people made dates. My son, I asked him, you know, well, isn't there some girl that you can date? He said, date? People don't date anymore. What do they do? He says, well, they just kind of hang out. You know, and then he couldn't explain it, but... Dating is apparently old-fashioned, but he says nowadays people make... this is in the 60s, 70s, he said this, 60s.

[26:11]

But enlightenment is not something which you can meet by making a date. You can't make a date with enlightenment, that's what he's saying. If you organize your life, get up at a certain time and pick up your bag lunch at a certain time and go to work, this is very cute, this is very sweet what he's saying, and go to work, very naive in a way, and then you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend, you will meet her or him and there will be no need for you to make a date. So you know, in other words, you get up in the morning and you take your lunch and you go to work Very Japanese style. And you go to her and you will meet the person that you really, your sweetheart, somebody that you really have a crush on. No need to, you know, to do a big deal about it. So at a certain time, she will come to the corner where you usually see her. That is our way. It is rather foolish and troublesome to make phone calls.

[27:15]

It's rather foolish and troublesome to make phone calls, even if you make a date by telephone. Hey, I'm leaving now. If she doesn't come to the corner, you will be disappointed. If you do not make any date, and if she comes at a certain time to the corner, you'll be very happy. So, you know, I was saying, don't worry, don't try to make a date with enlightenment. You may catch a glimpse of her or him, you know, if you just kind of go about your business, you know. She's around, you know, don't worry, she's around, but if you try to, you know, do something, She may not like that. She won't be there. Anyway, so this is how you attain enlightenment. He says, it's not a laughing matter. I'm sure he got the same response.

[28:27]

He says, I am talking about something real. Not to make any date means not to expect or stick to enlightenment. When you are encouraged by enlightenment, then seeing her, even though you don't talk to her, just getting a glimpse of her is enough. So you just kind of, oh, I'm so happy to see her, you know, even though she just went around the corner. I can remember that when I was a kid, you know. So all day long you'll be happy just catching a glimpse. If you are demanding too much of her, then it already means that you stick to enlightenment. So, it's a gift, you know. Maybe it's like grace, in a way. I think that's probably right. Maybe the equivalent in some way of grace, that it's not something that you can expect or something that you can make happen.

[29:39]

but through your sincere practice it's there and then at some point you will realize it you know we say Guishan says it's like walking in a fog it's not like standing out in the rain but it's like walking in a fog at some point you feel your clothes and they're damp so It creeps up on you and it's there before you know it and you don't know how it got there. It's like not thinking in zazen. You try not to think and then after about 10 minutes you realize you've been thinking for 10 minutes. So that is what the sixth ancestor meant when he said, just to dwell in emptiness is not true practice.

[30:42]

Originally, he attained enlightenment by one famous statement, without dwelling on anything, you have true mind. This is a statement from the Diamond Sutra. He heard someone reciting the Diamond Sutra when he was quite young. without dwelling on anything you have true mind this is his interpretation of that and he was his mind opened up and that's when he decided he would go see the fifth ancestor so if you stick to something you will lose your enlightenment so this is if you stick to something there's nothing to stick to in Zazen there is no special state of mind that we're trying to achieve. Sazen is not a special state of mind, but people think it is. And even though they know it's not, we're still looking for that special state of mind, that clarity.

[31:50]

Looking for And when our mind is very clear, we feel, well, this is enlightenment. It is. But you stick to that. You know, as soon as we say in Zazen, oh, I like this, I don't ever want it to change, it changes. And then everything else is unsatisfactory from there on. So it's true that clarity of mind is enlightenment, but also the change is enlightenment. And then the feeling of pain is enlightenment. And then the feeling of, I wish this wasn't so painful, is also enlightenment. But you don't know it.

[33:00]

So, even though you try to make an appointment or date, it doesn't work. If you stick to something, you will lose your enlightenment. If you stick to some special state of mind, you will lose your enlightenment. As long as you accept everything equally, as long as you accept every change equally, then enlightenment is there. without desiring some special state of mind. So, this is called non-discrimination. Non-discrimination is the key to enlightenment. But, you know, in our ordinary life we have to discriminate. We're always discriminating because we have to choose one thing over another. So, how do we do that?

[34:13]

How do you choose one thing over another? How do you make a decision? You have to make a decision based on non-discriminating mind. It's called the discrimination of non-discrimination. Discrimination, picking and choosing, without discriminating. without ego. It's selfless choice. You cannot live without choosing constantly, making a choice constantly. Everything we do is making a choice. So we choose to accept whatever happens. That's non-discriminating discrimination.

[35:16]

And then, do we want vanilla or chocolate? Doesn't matter. sometimes we eat whatever is on our plate and Sometimes if it's not so good we have to give it back So that's So we have to exhibit common sense as well as non-discrimination. And so he said, even though you try hard to make an appointment or a date, it doesn't work.

[36:34]

The enlightenment you attain in that way is something which you stick to and is not something which is always with you, which always encourages you. This point is very important. Even after we finish our Sashin, you should continue a well-organized life and have real enlightenment. When you practice sincerely according to the right instruction of your teacher, that is how you really experience enlightenment. This is a very fruitful Sashin and some of you have already had a good taste of our practice. Even if you haven't had a taste of real practice, I think you have understood how to practice. So from now on, just continue your practice. Do you have any questions? James? You know, we've been sitting here all week. Not everybody. All week long. And struggling with this whole thing.

[37:37]

And what? And struggling with this whole question. And many times we've heard that enlightenment is no special thing, and it's something that's always with us. Instead, you're sitting there thinking, gosh, this is the gameplay I wish it were over. It's still enlightenment. It doesn't feel like enlightenment. And I'm wondering how I can bridge that gap. Just believe what I say. That's the part I'm having trouble with. Because when you say it doesn't feel like enlightenment, you must know what enlightenment feels like. No, I have no idea what enlightenment feels like. Then how do you know it doesn't feel like enlightenment? Is your practice wholehearted?

[38:45]

Sure. Well, that's why you're experiencing enlightenment. Well, I wonder if we could say it just a little bit differently. Probably. How about, even though enlightenment is a different state of mind than, I mean, we come here for some reason, right? No. Okay, leave that part out then. Even though enlightenment is a different state of mind, if we wish to attain it, we won't get a glance. It's always different. Everything changes. That didn't sound like what you were saying in the beginning.

[39:46]

What I'm saying is that whatever comes up, if we meet it with not demanding that it be something special, it is what it is. Yeah, that's what I just said. I thought I was saying that. Well, I'm just saying it differently. In other words, whatever comes up, Whether it's different than the last moment or more special than the last moment, it's the demand that it be something. That's the problem. That we want something. Yeah, we want something. Well, wanting something is always the problem. Right, and still we come here because we want something. No, we don't. I don't. I don't come here because I want something. You want practice. I don't want practice. I just come. Because that's what we're doing. You come to practice wholeheartedly. I hope so.

[40:47]

It's not always so, but I hope so. I don't come to practice to get something. When you say want something, I'm not sure what you mean by want something. Well, it's true that there's no satisfaction. So recognizing that, we give up and come here. That's not why I come here. I don't know. I think we come for various reasons. Everyone comes for various reasons. But basically, when I come to Sashin, I don't think about Sashin. I know there's going to be Sashin. And then when people say, what is the attitude that I should have when I come to Sashin?

[41:52]

I say, don't think about it. Just put it out of your mind. Just go about your business. And then when the time comes to come to Sashin, you just do that. You don't think, I'm doing this for some reason, or because I feel some certain way, or want to feel some certain way. When it's time to do Sushin, that's what you do. Up until that time, you're doing something else. It's like one life turning into another life. It's like, I'm living my life now, doing my whatever, and then, boom, I'm in another life. It's just like starting another life from scratch without any expectation. It's like being born into a new world. So, without any expectation. If you have expectation, it's very hard to sit Zazen, very hard to do Sashin. The easiest way to sit Sashin is without any expectation.

[42:55]

If you say, seven days, you can't sit Sashin. You can only do it moment by moment by moment without any idea. Right? So, I have never had an idea that I wanted to be enlightened. It's just never been a driving intention with, you know. I just believed my teacher all along. Just no gaining idea. That was his whole thing. There's nothing to gain. There's nothing to get. There's no point other than to just do, to sit moment by moment within the moment and each moment is total life and includes the whole universe. That's all. Yeah. I was going to say, my understanding is that ordinary mind and extraordinary mind are one and the same.

[44:09]

And that even when I'm in the experience of wanting to spit nails and kick walls, that if I'm aware of that experience as it's occurring, that it's no different than when I'm in a peaceful, serene place, in a sense, I mean that I'm catching the awareness. And it also, I'm making a distinction because I recently, not long ago, heard someone talk about Christianity from a place of the specialness of the phenomena of Jesus, and making a case about phenomena and specialness. And I brought up that ordinary mind and extraordinary occurrence are one and the same. how can there be, and there must be many possibilities for so-called resurrection. You know, I mean, we, Christianity is always making that kind of distinction.

[45:11]

And I think, for me, Buddhism allows for that. We experience what we experience as it is, and that, when you speak about enlightenment, What is not extraordinary is very is very extraordinary I Think I understand what you're talking about. It's about how to how to practice with no gaining idea That's the way you have to actually the attitude you cultivate in practice but there's this other way of talking about people's motivation to practice and one word for it is bodhichitta which is desire for enlightenment. So that's another way of talking about it and I think in this earlier discussion some people were speaking from that way of talking about it and you were talking from the other.

[46:19]

It sounds contradictory but it's not. There's nothing wrong with the desire for enlightenment, you know. The problem with the desire for enlightenment is that we get attached to the desire for enlightenment. There's nothing wrong with the desire for enlightenment. It's only that we stick to the desire for enlightenment. and so that we can't see what's in front of us, you know, is already enlightenment. So, if you try to grasp it, you know, it moves away from you. You stumble past it. And if you don't try to go for it, then you ignore it.

[47:23]

So it's a big koan, you know, going for enlightenment and not going for it. The problem is that the thought of enlightenment is a thought. And in order to actualize, we have to get rid of all those concepts. As soon as you have a concept about enlightenment, you snuggle past it. That's the problem. As soon as you have an idea about it, it's gone. That's why Suzuki Roshi was so adamant about clearing the table, you know, get all that stuff off the table.

[48:26]

Don't fall into that. People would say, well, Suzuki Roshi never talked about enlightenment, you know, as if he ignored enlightenment. Everything he did was enlightenment, but he didn't create a concept of enlightenment. This is a question. Getting rid of wanting. That's what it sounds like. That's what it sounds like you just said. And I don't think that's really what you mean. There is wanting. We're full of wanting. There's wanting this, there's wanting that. There's nothing wrong with wanting. Wanting is a human thing.

[49:30]

Right. But it's this sticking to it. It's the fixing on the wanting that's the... Well, that's, of course. So, is it letting go? Not sticking to some particular thing. So it's, you know, wanting is desire, right? So when desire is turned toward way-seeking mind, or you could say enlightenment, it's no longer called desire. It's called seeking the way. Desire is a term that's used for wanting something. But even so, the wanting is still wanting.

[50:33]

And in the end, even that has to go. it seems to me that it goes or it doesn't. Things arise, wanting, aversion, and so on. If we don't meddle, if we leave it alone, in a sense enjoy it, appreciate it, but don't energize it, don't try to push it away, don't try to manipulate, enjoy the time in which it leaves. Yeah, that's called not wanting. Okay. Alan? Well, I've been sitting here

[51:35]

in dialogue with myself through this, and in dialogue with an imaginary you, and not winning any arguments. although it's still a question to me. But what occurred to me as I came to that was that you actually did exactly what you said the teacher does at the beginning of this lecture, which is, this is uncomfortable. I find this a very uncomfortable discussion at the end of seven days, and I think And so it's like you're throwing back at us with these introversion words, what is it we're doing?

[52:48]

And I appreciate that even though I think there's a wide sphere of thoughts, agreements, disagreements here. That's all I have to say. I agree with you. Are you sure? Yeah. But you didn't win. No, but I got to agree, but that's rare. That's good. that can be attained through zazen.

[53:51]

But our Chinese and Japanese tradition often has enlightenment taking place in the enlightenment stories, in the context of daily life, on hearing something fall off the roof, on seeing one's reflection in a stream, on being hit by one's teacher. I can hardly think of any Enlightenment stories in Zen tradition where enlightenment occurs during Zazen? It's not that enlightenment occurs during Zazen. Enlightenment and Zazen are one thing. So it's not that if you are sitting Zazen trying to attain some enlightenment experience that probably won't happen, because you're already experiencing enlightenment. So you're expecting something that's already happening, but you don't see it.

[54:54]

You don't realize what's happening, and you're looking for something else. As long as you're looking for something else, you can't see it. This is the biggest problem. As long as we're looking for something else, we can't see it. It's the idea that stops it. that gets in the way. So, yes, people have enlightened experiences when they're not sitting zazen. But sitting zazen, they're sitting in the midst of enlightenment. It's like sitting in the middle of the stream and saying, where's the water? And the reason we don't recognize it is because we want something else than what we've got. If you accept exactly what you have, that's it. But you don't But you're looking for something else. Wait a minute. No. It's really time to go. Because this is endless.

[55:57]

Right? How long? Okay. Well, I just... I don't want to make too neat a package, but it seemed to me that one way of saying what you're saying was to let go of the idea of enlightenment as a peak experience, you know, bells and whistles and satori and falling off the ton and that kind of stuff. But that what you were talking about, about being present for your own experience, moment after moment, being enlightenment, I want that. And it sounded to me like you want that, too. And we make some kind of an effort to be present. And that would be my response to David, that that was the piece you left out. It's something about making this effort to be present, for wanting or not wanting or whatever's going on, but that we do make a great effort.

[57:00]

Just that it's not an effort to get somewhere. It's an effort to do what you're doing. Let's do this.

[57:12]

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