Given on Monday, August 10, 2009
About this talk
Dogen's Genjo Koan; things and their attributes; mind itself is Buddha; we can't fix our minds.
Transcript:I. Think. We're going to miss the best part you know. When is the. You know when of. Those have I heard that have I heard Roberta and such and such an occasion that's a when and this is when so this is like when it's a moment any particular moment any particular moment is a when so this is often sometimes just as when and in this case it's translated as as but it's any particular moment when you study carefully and observe carefully he was see that all things are Buddha Dharma. Is extremely schooled in Buddhism classical Buddhism sutras Zan so. This is. Going so something comes out of you know hundreds of years. Oh things are Buddha Dharma and if you study Buddhism you find out what dumb is dumb it technically is you know these elements that you can that you can identify and it don't make element you know is imprinted. Something that's imprinted it means and this kind of impermanence is instead it appears it disappears and so then classically But is that it didn't actually exist. Or is it already gone. And we have this kind of steady does it did it actually exist or is it already gone so this particular moment there's it's all things are good at Dharma they're all disappearing as instantly is their appearance based on conditions causing conditions. So and DOMA as are not things things here things are said to be Buddha dharma so things we can understand as things as we understand things to be things things actually are there they rise and then they're there for a time and then they disappear don't as do not do that terms are not things and the difference here is that a thing has exist in nature OK so a table what is a table well tables have certain attributes that then make them tables it's got some legs it has a top we can put things on it it's a certain height and the floor is down there in the sea and that is up there and you can define You know what things are and then the floor has a certain characteristic What's a floor well it has these characteristics but we still haven't said what a flow is or what a ceiling is or what a table is we just say well it has these characteristics and there must be something there that has the characteristics Otherwise how could there be characteristics without thinking this is the way our minds work and you know whether we're in modern America or ancient times we start to attribute attribute we take the attributes and we attribute there being a thing that has the entropy is we make that up if seen is occurring we say i'm saying there must be an I that's doing this thing is there's a table that is legs and you know there's a tablecloth and it and you can see the cut their cloth covers the table you can see and clothes are thin and they have certain characteristics and you see how the fabric moves that's fabric and so and we say that we'd like to think that there's a thing there and what is it pointed out and we come to in the second sentence here especially but it's already in the first sentence that this is dharma things there's nobody's ever found the thing things are very mysterious victory has the trees grow up and they have trunks trees have trunks but what is that tree and then soon as you say what is a tree people start talking about the attributes. And finally trees trees there's something about trees that is presence and it's it's something that is the. New So what's a tree without its attributes so Buddhists have never found anything any of these things that we you know things have attributes dharmas are the attributes and there's no thing they're so blue it's just blue there's no thing that's blue it's blue. That's the dharma you know and concentration that's just concentration it's not and it's not it's not an edge of it of a thing it is that thing so Dharma is carried dermis have divers are said to be their own mark they're not separate they don't have a substance and an attribute they are the attribute and there's no substance so dermis are with that are already without thing OK all things are Buddha dharma so things already are in we're shifting the notion of things where there are things out in the world and things which are psychological things which our experience show. All of these things are dharma beer appearing and disappearing instantaneously and there's no thing there that's doing that. And we talk more about this as we go on you know to kill yourself forward in experience married things is delusion that myriad things come forth experience themselves as waking and so on. So Durbin says when all these things when we see you know say then when we see that all things are dharma I put it dharma we see there's delusion and realization practice birth and death and there are bridges and sentient beings so this is kind of interesting because then Dobyns expression of alternate reality is that. There is the lesion and realisation practice birth and death and Buddhist and sentient beings so this is very interesting you know if you study but as them. You know because so much of Buddhism understands that when you really understand you see that nothing is anything and it all is One and One is many and but you know we don't have these things anymore to deal with to relate with ridges to have you know it's kind of. You know works and it's harmonious and Rue Isn't it nice and we can relax now and. Maybe maybe. So then the second sentence here and you know Dugan is going to go on here and talk about what is delusion what is realization what is practice what is birth and death what are but isn't sentient beings I'm going to tell you a little bit about this to be because we're not going through all of this together as myriad things are without an abiding self this is another way of saying that things are Buddha Dharma when you look close they had things you find that there's no thing there doesn't matter what you suppose the thing to be but when there is when you see that things are without anybody and self and where you got what is it you're calling delusion what is it that you would call realization you can't find anything to. And this is you know what they say like in the perfection of wisdom Sutra but as a beauty I suppose it would you please explain to the simple but it is the perfection of wisdom and how to stand how to stand in the perfection of wisdom and how good to go for the deeper into the perfection of wisdom it's a bit he says great I had to learn a bit but you know when I look really closely I can't find anything to call it nor can I find a thing to apply that word perfection of wisdom to so when someone hears this and does not count or a tremble is not frightened or dismayed that's a bodhisattva and that's the perfection of wisdom. And then a curse story purchases is that something that is. And if it is but this is a little beyond is and is not so let's not go there OK. And was that a very good question you ask because they like to in the sutras make fun of sherry butcher and sorry picture says no I guess it was and. It's a little bit like in the bin like here to suit your when showing pictures somebody is looking around for a chair and being like here just says did you come in for the dharma or the chair. Because you read his mind so so when and this abide in so if you know this you can look at this in various ways you know but you know does the book is there actually a book here or do we do it is that just the attributes and experience really can you ever experience the thing that your experience is what it looks like what it feels like I can open it it so what is it well it's a book done but what is it there's ways in people say well what is it you know and that's a good know years and question you know what is it well it has these characteristics and you can see it feel it so there must be in it there that it has all those characteristics and it's a book. But it's also you know your consciousness it's it only exists in your scene you know and you see and you smell and your taste in your and you hold and you can do various things and then you say Well it's that's a book it's a book so is there actually a thing here and Buddhists have all kinds of ways of talking about this but there is is there an actually existing thing and Dogan is going to talk later about and this is true for any of us if something changes is it the same thing or not this is basic but is it right if something changes is it still the same thing or is it a different thing. So we like to think oh I change over the years but I'm still me. If it's different it's different if you changed it's not the same. But so partly we're talking about thinking very looking very closely very accurately very carefully and for practical everyday purposes this is a book you're you me but we can't find any of those things. If you talk about a nose writes in as well because it doesn't know this is why it's and to just come along sometimes and twist it because where does that nose end pair they're there so. So what is the end point to be it knows it has to be functioning like a nose so if it's not connected to the rest of the face it's not going to be a nose so the rest of the face says to be there for the nose to be a nose if the rest of the face is there what makes the nose the nose at the face is there and if the face is there the rest of the body has to be there pretty soon the whole world has to be there because you've got to be eating in order for the body to be alive and for the nose to be function is a nose so it's their noses you know it's just that we're just pointing at that but it's actually part of everything. So we say well there's the nose that's a nose you know we all know what noses are but actually we forget that a nose means everything is here and we have complete bodies and we talk suggestion and we eat food and there's the whole planet there's a sense of meaning and there's water and there's gasoline and we have tractors out there getting the food and painted over the road and all the rest of that so nobody's that you know if you look carefully you can't find a thing all the things are without an abiding self a biting means that's what it is it doesn't change but if it's changing how can it be that's what it is it's changing now it's something else it's not that same by itself so none of us have a bite in so if nothing out there has a bite in south so what delusion There's no delusion no and Lightman no realization right. No no no no no and then we study this so we read the Heart Sutra form is emptiness and can this is form form is exactly emptiness emptiness is exactly form. And then. Gogin says leaping clear of many an one there is birth and death the Buddha Way is basically leaping clear of many and one. And. So oftentimes people say this minion one is. You know about discrimination on discrimination so to discriminate we say there's a nose there's eyes there's areas there's a body there's the world there's these things as though they actually exist. And so there's actually a thing that corresponds to the name we use so we point out all these things that discriminate into not discriminate is to say everything is one in Dublin says when you leap clear of that from his point of view then well then there is birth and death there is delusion and right in that they're essential beings in Buddha's. And in this wonderful lessons in attachment blossoms fall in aversion we spread so blossoms far away and spread whether you like it or not but. I want to read your piece here and I want to read your couple pieces from time to spring this is or is translations by Tom Cleary from the SO to Zen tradition it's out of print now but. My copy was at home so I because I occasionally stay there you know I I was slipped into the Abbotts cabin and borrowed the copy from the Abbotts library but this is one of my favorite teachings here the Zen Master shirt who in jeopardy is known as sixty two and is the second after the sixth ancestor I said our teaching has been handed down by the ancient Buddhas region not speak of meditation or spiritual progress only the arrival at the knowledge and vision of Buddhahood and this is the part that for me very much echoes again JUCO and perhaps when you see that you know Dogan comes out of this long history of people talking about these things. And this is a very famous expression in so it has in mind itself is Buddha mind it is Buddha and says a cure she said mind is Buddha itself things are Buddha is activity is Buddha and Buddha is Buddha and this is famous expression and so it is and then you know once people start running around saying my mind itself is that then you know so and others and teachers would say you know not my not Buddha. And because we don't want anybody using language as though they know what they're talking about without knowing what they're talking about in the. Us. It's seen the way things are here it's seen Buddhahood seen so this is another way of saying seen the way things are we're not going to have stepladder practice first they were understand this and it will understand this you know I just practice seen the way things are how is it so when things are but it dharma then there's birth and death there's but is this practice but it isn't sentient beings and I mean in delusion. That's when we see it you know accurately closely intimate the. Mind itself is Buddha mind Buddha same beings in light Mint affliction Oh different names for the same thing you should know that your own mind your own mind aware essence is neither finite no eternal by nature neither defiled nor pure it is still incomplete same in ordinary people in Saints. So this isn't about you know. Looking good. Being you know common not upset being concentrated in not just directed you know being still rather than noisy this is seeing about seeing closely seen head mind itself as Buddha when all things are Buddha Dharma there is delusion in realization and this delusion realization is different names for one reality but we actually live in this world of different things Duggan says it's very important to live in this world of different things and while understanding the different things are not truly and absolutely fundamentally different things but let's live in this world where tentatively we give tentative designations tentative words to things so that we can talk about things and relate to things as though they actually exist but remembering that they don't actually exist let's look at these different things that's relate to these different things so we're not we're not doing this practice in this case then you see to improve to get better to fix our set of so that we're more likeable so there were more spiritual so that were more admirable So we get more recognition I certainly thought this when I started you know after a year or two. I'll get in light and then you won't deny I can tell you word sat. And you were about. It hasn't quite worked out like that. Oh well. I want to tell you one other thing about this and then I'm going to invite you to see what's on your minds. So again we're trying to see reality I mean or at a more you know Buddhism and this is Buddhism it's not just stand seeing things in something called seen things the way they are. And then Dogan sometimes and the second toe shooters is seeing that having a vision or no knowledge of Buddhahood. Dogan says when you see that things when things when you see things are but a dharma you say there are these we can talk about the vision the realisation even though these things don't find they fundamentally absolutely exist as those things. So it says Shane when Time says it was you didn't talk very much as I was it. But one time but he used to occasionally talk and so she was basically. There I was there a few times when he talked things I was and. Which wasn't such a shame but mostly it's a shame and one time he said and you know we were struggling. And you know just sit still and he said don't move just die. Nothing will help you now because you have no more moments so much for step letters and. Maybe I could find out something that will make this easier. Nothing will help you know because you have no more moments not even and I mean it will help you know. Because. It's your last moment so don't move. Don't move and be true cheers he said and express yourself freely. This Be true to yourself and express yourself fully is you know is going to have delusion and realization practice birth and death but it isn't sentient beings Oh in that one moment. It's not like because you practice well it to goes away things clear up it's so much easier now. So this is a kind of again you know mistaken kind of idea let's be clear about that as great all things are but a dharma is realization and division there's practices birth and death. This is also I love the sonnet by broke about food and he says the round up and smooth banana milling gooseberry ph all this affluence digs death and life in your mouth when you taste things carefully you don't just taste it blessed in the bounty you need Sure there's death in that. And every moment everything is there and we sort of think I would just get the good side of it that I want and I won't have to relate to the other side and actually we're practicing to be able to you know experience everything without being disturbed. Because this is reality delusion and I meant practice birth and death it's this isn't this isn't you know delusions This is delusional and really zation are not coming and going practice is not coming go in birth there's no coming going death there's no coming going each moment all of this is there. And so it's as if you as you said Sit with it deal with it. Stop thinking you're going to get somewhere or get better and when you start thinking that it is a kind of getting somewhere because you actually can be here and you step thinking I could get to same place it's better than here and this is you know often very challenging for us extremely challenging sometimes but whenever we whenever we see it or breakthrough or you know and there's a way in which you know to just breathe it into your heart and the Egypt. And the you just say I was with this I will live with this I will be with this and I thought I couldn't stand it but I will I will sit with it I will breathe with it I will be with it this is very same they're also to you know Tibet and with Bush and I forget which one it is he said he would Merican just want to get someplace don't you you might kind of study like well where are you you know like at the shopping mall. They have these maps and it says you are here. Before you try to get someplace you might kind of check out where are you. So we're at this place you see where. So it's a kind of mistaken idea or you know to think I will I will get rid of the delusion and just have the realization I will get rid of death and just birth and I will get rid of sentient being I will become a Buddha so we're actually the having in place realities in would give and were used in their words differently and you know we're in this way in with everything so that OK. So. Interest comments questions observations yes. I mean like everything. That I'm doing. I think that's called delusion. And you know. And then you notice that and that's really as Asian about to Lucian and you know Buddhist don't necessarily know that they're good as the Rabbit took one of those times when you're a bird that doesn't realize it. And you know but it is going to have and by the way nobody's going to have runny noses but this is one of those things like which is it what is it that makes the Buddha Buddha and then what is there thing actually there so probably the difference here between a Buddha and you know an enlightened person and one person is the way we talk to that person. So you know we sometimes come around looking for people so sometimes as a sense to you might understand that the said police are after you. This is in police and they come they come in and say All right what's going on here why aren't you and so I was that's is in police but if it's here. And they knock down your door and they say Come with me you're coming to said no no excuses. So then you know that they were not approaching a Buddha and they did not see you as the Buddha that you are. But you know back in the sutras then they come and they tap on your door and they say venerable super I've come to inquire about your health and welfare how is the Venerable Master today. Drank too much whenever. There was that lecture just went on and on and on. I couldn't get out of bed today and then you then you know you start to feel like oh maybe I have a maybe I have could be respected maybe. With a talking to me that miserable person. This is confusing which I am I. So what something is is put the you know how we see it how we understand it how we talk you know how we relate to it what makes them say what it is it's not like these things are separate from you know years of so how do you see yourself you know oh so then you know there's this and Mr used to say to himself so we can. And then he'd say yes and then the then he'd say don't be confused or he'd say sick and yes wake up OK. So other people have had this kind of issue you know so we can. Are you here yes. Don't be fooled OK. Yes. Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. Yes nice. Yes yes. Yes. I think. He wears that where these pictures are. Sent for beginners OK Check it out sometime. So host and hostess I say yeah yeah harmonious Yeah and then there but it is respect in the other and you know because they're saying. You know anywhere. But that that big respect for kind is coming from inside and it's not because I have to be kind I have to be respectful and some point when you're telling yourself what you have to be in order to be a good Buddhist and you know that's not quite what we're talking about as far as those then you're busy I mean then you're busy being a guess because you're challenge yourself how you need to behave when you're Yes yes doesn't know what's going on. Yes yes how it can be kind of sympathetic to the guest. OK Yes Mary. But. Really. I'm. I mean after my Dharma talk here and even after everything I've had to say OK well anyway I'm I'm I could understand how you could be confused I think confused for years. Yes. Oh that's later in situ we haven't gotten there yet. So let's. Talk about Wednesday oh yeah with the probably the day that you're not here. Well you know I think about this is something to do with. You know if we if we just take this in the context of the first paragraph it seems that there's no such thing as an abiding body an abiding mind that continues from moment to moment. Going about in the night meant that there's and so drop in you know something away that you thought you needed to maintain you said we need we have the I guess I need to you know my body hurts my body hurts and we think that in there we believe there actually is a body that is hurting I need to do something about it and then we're living in the this is also known as delusion. The basic delusion is thinking they're believing there is there are things and you need in that you need to do something about the things but if everything's appearing and disappearing what things are that are there that you need to do something about so that you could but anyway they drop in a way. Just for the sake of our conversation is that there's no abiding mind like I need to fix my mind so that it doesn't do this and it does this and doesn't do that and I do I stop I've go of that in the body that you know when used when you sit and when you study things carefully you you know you often can you know you can't find you can't find your body. You just can't find it. You can find sensation. So you study carefully and you have sensation and then you can start picturing that there must be a body having that sensation but largely it till the time there's no we don't experience or body we don't experience or digest you know kinds of things we don't experience but we still believe there is a body. And well we're preserving the body preserving the mind and and making the body that we're preserving the way we want to be making the mind that we've been preserving the way we want it to be and according to our preferences and this is going to be you know suffering because it can't be done to anywhere near the degree that we would like to do it and so then we can you know. When we have and you know this is the kind of thing that you know sometimes in Zen this is understood you do it like once and for all and it's just a big dramatic thing but on the other hand. You know every day we have experiences of letting go of something that we. You know we're pretty much attached to and believing in as a reality. We can also understand this and as fairly process a can simple and pretty fairly every day that we let go of our body with a mind. I've. Actually said. I think. I'm. Right. It's. Like they say that you know he said there's delusion and there's In like me and they're. OK When I say what I did was I quoted sure to who said Mind Buddha sentient beings and Reitman and division are different names for the same thing we are no where as in mind itself is good but you know and is in there with the same mind itself as being the end there is no Buddha it's you sort of put the end there so. We will eventually get to the point the delusion is unlimited but we're not there are today. Because I was kind of you know women I think there and I have. You know I perception. Exactly when we see the dilution that's in light and it can says that here do you know to be a Buddha is to have realization about your to the. To see your delusion clearly is delusion that's awakening. Right right. Right. Well we're expecting realisation to blow us away you know if oh well there you go. Yeah Doug said so much for you know some people really loved. What Brendan is mentioned last night I read a passage from only a boot in a Buddha and Durbin says when you had tane realization you do you know think a ha realization just as I expected. Even if you think it's a realization a very big difference from your from your expectation. And part of what I was saying this night is realization in this case is the same word for actualizing manifesting So we're actually just talking about you know if you follow your breath closely you can't have it's not something that you can say how it's going to happen at a time and that's the way it happens. Our lives you know moment after moment things happen bit it's not about how we you know can we control that. Can we fix it can we improve it so that we consistently have thinks of raising in our vicinity in a way that reflects well on me and my skill and savvy and my competence as a Buddhist practitioner. So. Whether we call that realization or my breath my body you know people the world you know moment after moment things are appearing and I can't have and I can't you know and language is not going to be able to have or the picture I've had in my mind is you know it's sort of like which is the good is that you know you can when you're eating boy food is good when you're eating you know it's I think good and I think the food when you're eating it is way better than any memory you might have about seventy of it might have been better. But that's realization you know that's actually zation that's a manifestation things are appearing in ways that is beyond your expectation and you can't can you can't it conceived it so this is the way oh it's moments to happen he went. When all things are Buddha Dharma. Everything's are appearing and that's the way all things are and when we experience it that way we notice how things appear is beyond my expectation it's not the way I conceived it it's not happening according to my plan. You know I can't I'm you know I'm not even going to try to improve on it yes. OK By the way see for a moment it is four thirty in case some of you need to be going to work at four thirty. OK. Me. Me. Oh. You know so this has something to do with language ing and and this is where language often falls short of why we you know sometimes have poetry and you know and then well and you know in Buddhism if you're meditating. You know or seeing things clearly you try to have you know more and more dharmic language so you don't go you don't try to leave you know like if you practice the parsonage and you start noticing things you do something more there but you're saying. You don't go I am aware of you say I said this is right and then you can know sadness. If. You know and if seen arises you know it's seen and you come back to your breath and then you know do and you can know thinking you can know it into motion you know thinking judging you can do planning remembering and then you just make that simple note and that simple note. Is like having this you know Division realization so little note right you know markers like this help us to perceive more clearly more carefully if we don't have markers then pretty soon we don't notice differences in part of what we're doing if I may say so and certainly from my point of view part of what we're doing is to see if we can notice differences and reach differences make a difference and how we act on those differences and partly you know we're studying the way they produce it but a study happens is you know that we're trying to change ourselves. By some act of will it's our understanding that you know where we chip then we change it's how we see clearly Oh now I see I was trying to. Gain approval when I was you know cooking and I was seeking that with the mistaken idea that approval would help me like myself better but I can never get enough approval I guess that didn't work right and I do something else instead. Well maybe I could just offer food and see what happens maybe they like it maybe they don't so by our seeing you know so yes you're right and I may add in that a bit to the end of it you know you try to come up with the. Name to have a simple expression. Without And again without the markers you know and then you start to catalogue things so. And mostly we learn about our life you know through trial and error. People say well when do I know it's the right person to be in relationship with like I could tell you it was I could give you some kind of you know list of ten things that you could analyze or basically you find out by being in some bad relationships. And then you say excuse me but you know thank you and. And you know so we dive into things you know we have the capacity to dive into things to me the capacity to reflect on things some of us dive into way too many things some of us reflect on way too many things and to have wisdom. Reach is you know really committing yourself to what you dive into you're going to need to you know have dived into too many things and stood on the diving board for way too long. And over the course of your life you don't you know just learn these things when you're you know fifteen or eighteen or even thirty five you learn over the course of a life something about who you are and and what are the markers for so for instance you know. When you're in your twenty's usually you have the idea and you meet somebody and then you say to them you make me so happy. So I want to be with you but what about when they stop doing that. You're not making me happy the way he used to I do not let me anymore. Or I might just not controlling myself and becoming happy around you so that you know I can have the belief that you're doing that for me or to me or I actually am lovable and in any way you make up all kinds of things eventually you know and you know you come around to right one and they find a good person to have problems with. And you know a good person to problems with is different than somebody who makes you happy so this is something good so you learn something about things over time but you then you start to you have to notice the markers what's the marker for what and that's exactly what you're talking about said happy and then what are the markers what's going on what's happening and then how do I know something how do I know when it's my heart how do I know when it's my mind raise my mind doing what is my heart saying. So you say the mind is giving out directives do this don't do that and her heart is feeling things and feeling connection and you know how it can feel and then you're hard sometimes you know knows where to move towards But then our mind can go yes or no I don't think so or you know bad idea or you know OK A. Right this is all you know ongoing kind of steady. Right right in the markets for what's going on right and what we're going to act on and we're not going to end. And we learn a lot of that by traveling here so excuse me I added it to a European you know something else yes culture. So. That's kind of what Zen is you know so you can participate in have to a point right of course you know we encourage people to check it out for yourself and see if you can and usually the understanding here is a joke and says it some point here just study the Buddha ways to study itself so if you take something out the show if you want to live with it for a while and see if it's becoming you know helping you become you. Have been you know you. And then you start to have confidence in it because it's not really your system that's telling you to be somebody else or have to be somebody else or how you spin you to realize who you are yeah it can work you you know culture and that's what culture airs. And. But you know it's sort of like and cultures like recipe books culture you know. And as I've often said I don't know what happened to our culture that there was no it would be a big thing go and sin when my book came out in one nine hundred seventy which is culture that wasn't being passed on we don't need to pass this and we wait for it to manufacture and we don't you know and some people get off you know but some people say that's public education you know originally it was industrious in New England you needed immobile force that had nothing better to do than Except a crummy job so they said let's get them away from their parents early on so they can't learn anything in their families and then they'll have to resign or I jobs. OK Because otherwise if they were home they could learn to farm or be a carpenter a plumber or you know something useful and then they wouldn't need our jobs. Rather it was some of the sites these things but obviously so now it's sort of like you know a lot of ways you know you need an education. To to you know be in the world or at least it looks like that but some of us somehow slip through the cracks and you know I don't know right even though we're dropouts. I dropped out of most things throughout my life. But here I am coming back to test yet again. How we doing something else. TIME HE so we can just stop now. OK So can we do a chant just. I like this I like the chant ho. Ho is the biggest word for Dharma row and it's also you know the three words that Santa Claus says one after another. Yes And it's also Native American. Which is like peace or. And then it's used used in black ghettos and and it's you know used in many cultures to have many meanings so I like to think of the word ho as being a kind of all inclusive word. She's done yes use hope for farming but anyway I like to use this because and I actually think sometimes people say well that's very nice that but it's not sand. And they say well anyway people say various things and I mean. They say it's not very nice but it's nonsense but you know I did learn this from as then teacher so in Russia. And so rushing was not you know out of the box I mean he was out of the box but your sentence he was saying let's think out of the box and then say but you haven't even looked in the box why don't you look in there and see what's there. Anyway all these things but anyway so in row seat I used to have people chant ho so I've learned it actually from growing Stewart he was in Cyprus overseas and we chant ho for a minute or so because if you run out of breath you kneel and join back into the sound and you let the sound resonate through your body you know chanting back this is a kind of considered to be a kind of cleansing practice so the sound is washing through you and you're washing that Sam through you rather than usual thoughts been preoccupations so we let the sound was through and then we're using No two I said to share or bless a present as is with the world so we're turning over the merit. And blessings are practice and sharing it with all beings so I don't have a bill here but will just start and so will share our merits and lessons and sit in our prayers in each other's hearts with sound. Oh oh.