In our group the discussion was centered on the topic whether the three pairs And the three kinds of consciousness you mean? Whether there is a relationship between them and how they are connected In our group there was a question concerning the three partnerships.

[01:14]

The question concerns phenomena because you didn't specify whether there is cognition and reflection in phenomena. Nein, gibt es nicht. I mean, I didn't, you know, we want to get a little mystical, we can have some, but... Wenn wir etwas mystisch werden wollen, könnten wir haben, aber doch nicht. Ich habe gedacht an einen Satz von Wittke. I thought a sentence of Wittke came to my mind. Wo er sagt, es gibt nichts, was man nicht sieht. where he says there is nothing which doesn't see us.

[02:31]

You must change your life. You must change your life. And also I thought about art. I thought about artwork. Where, for example, a material wants something from me. Where I can experience that the stuff, the material I'm working with is asking something for me. So that there can be a kind of dialogue. Yeah, I would say it asks something through the relationship. If someone else has the same material it might ask something else. I mean there are coincidences and uncanny things that happen but in general as practice

[03:32]

We emphasize consciousness is reflexive and cognitive and the body is cognitive but not reflexive. But if it is like that, that the outside doesn't have consciousness, How is it possible that things are connected and that there is no self? Are there two different things who interact with each other, or is there only the in-between?

[04:51]

There's too many questions in the middle of all that. Are you saying because everything is interdependent, And you think that I have an answer? Well, if we want to discuss the consciousness of phenomena I think it doesn't belong in this context.

[05:56]

This context is looking at phenomena as the ingredients of the relationship to body and mind. Those are useful distinctions, I think. To try to make phenomena also a form of consciousness, etc., we get something else going on. There is some sort of transcendence. Buddhism basically has immanence but not transcendence. By immanence I would say beings are immanent in being and being is immanent in beings. Beings do not transcend, neither transcends the other.

[07:14]

I couldn't follow that. Okay. I couldn't follow that. You couldn't follow that? No. I couldn't. Well, the dancing... Sounds nice. Try it in the evening. All right. Being... I thought the same. ...is implied in beings. and beings are implied in being. There is no such thing as a being independent of beings. You are created by other beings, your language is created by other beings. To be a being is to be profoundly also beings. Tomorrow maybe we can speak about dancing at the juncture of being and beings.

[08:17]

I only said that so that we should meet tomorrow. Okay, anyone else have some fruits to share with us? I really hate the feeling that I spend all this time talking and nothing happens to you. Yes. In our discussion, it became clearer to us that body and mind, they somehow dispose of their own knowledge.

[09:49]

Disposed? They carry their own knowledge. So what happens is there is an expansion happens and more experience is possible. And so this increases There's an increase that happens other than when they are just together all night. Yeah, I think so too. And at the same time, I think about death. So when you're dying, body and mind both disappear or are not behind one.

[11:04]

So this shows how they are connected. So there is maybe some source from which both arise. Well, they're both connected. For sure. They can function separately differently. My nose is connected to my ear, but my ears don't smell. Okay. And I would say that the body... Know carries knowing and noticing. It's not just knowledge. It's knowledge and knowing, and it also notices. Yeah. Okay, that was good. In our group, we try to

[12:28]

explore these mind postures which are the background of the poetic work. The mental postures. This was interesting. What I understood was that the example that Hoshi gave is very similar. What I understood was that it's quite similar to the example you gave, the example of fitting the mock video with the metric posture, you don't become faster. And by that the body is freed to have its own experience. So what I learned was that in this work, constellation work, for example, something similar happens.

[14:10]

Good. Thank you very much. Yeah, it was interesting. Yeah, that's why I send you out in the groups to get that. OK, someone else? Yes? We found out that if we want to somehow single out the partners of this threefold partnership, we end up in confusion. But if we enter this with thinking that the partnership is still a real thing, then we also end in confusion. But the whole thing was very satisfying.

[15:19]

And I expressed the suspicion that this question, how should we look at partnership, is actually very tricky. I was suspecting that your input, we should look at the partnership, is tricky. You mean you think I was trying to be tricky? I don't know whether you want it, but I felt it was. Well, I'm pretty innocent. I just have been talking about it, so I thought you might talk about it. One of the things that we could talk about is what kind of space, like there's many kinds of zeros, there's many kinds of space.

[16:26]

And many kinds of emptiness. Okay, so what kind of space does this threefold partnership create? Because it exists in a kind of, it exists in, it not only exists within space, but it generates space. And patience is one of the doors of space. To be patient generates space. Okay, I'll say it again first.

[17:28]

I raised the question a little bit, so to speak, whether the opposite, that we are neurotic and fixated on something, means that people do not have a tree, that this feeling of space does not exist. So I was somehow rubbing on the topic whether being neurotic or narrowed down in a On the problem, the thing is that what's missing is space. So what therapy then has to do is first of all establish this kind of space where you can experience body and other things.

[18:31]

And that you could say that development and change only is possible if separate perceptions are possible and can come together and can work together. You know, my father and mother were married by a Reverend Meek and me, Ike. Yeah, and they went out of their way to choose this guy. And he was the pastor, minister, or whatever, in Old South Church in Boston. And as a kid, I grew up like, here's this important person in my parents' life, and I never met him. I thought of this because I thought, I married you guys.

[19:54]

A lot of years ago. And you still know your minister. And we can have the conversations. Your boy. He sort of knows me too. He thinks I'm kind of a boring old man. Someone else. Was it useful to, at this point in the seminar, stop and talk about these things? Angela made me think of something. Because I'm still dealing with the question, what is this posture?

[21:36]

Physical posture, mental posture. You said once, everything is activity. So also this posture would have to be an activity. So maybe this activity would be to open a kind of space or to hold a kind of space. Yeah, it's like that. Its activity is to contextualize or to bring attention to, or something like that. Now I've said very often, for example, that our assumption that we're separated, already separated, when we first meet, you could have an antidote to that.

[22:58]

As I very often said, already separated, already connected. So if in every time you see something, a tree, an ant, a person, your mental posture is already connected. It calls for senses to notice connectedness. So you've used the mental posture already connected. To contrast with already separated. You've used it to refocus the sensorium. And if you've used it, you know, I can make a big list.

[24:19]

You've used it to discover your, the immanence of beings. In each being. And you've used it to discover compassion and maybe love. And of course you're using it to develop the experience of all things are appearance. So we're always in the midst of 10,000 things. Yeah, okay. Okay. Infinite. So thousands of things. Those are always intermerging.

[25:43]

And they are more noticed by the cognitive capacities, the cognitive awareness and cognitive capacities of the body. then they're noticed by consciousness. Okay, and so you're engaging, you're using a mental posture to engage the mind and the body in the inner interpenetration, interemergence of phenomena. Which is in fact then becomes an adventure because you don't really know what's going to happen.

[26:51]

Because the process is occurring in a wider noticing and knowing than consciousness. So consciousness often finds out later, you've made some big life decisions and you didn't know it at first. Okay, someone else. So this kind of model of beingness, of aliveness, assumes the interdependence. Interdependence. What a nice surprise. Okay.

[28:10]

So let me, since we didn't have much time, let me bring in one more closely related example. But first, does anybody else want to say something? I have a question. You said, go into the forest. You said, you go through the forest with the view already, with the bent posture already connected. But I don't have a consciousness of that, and for that reason I don't have a felt experience.

[29:13]

Maybe I feel it, but I don't know it. You already had this experience. And you're giving me the model, give attention, be aware, there might be more in you. My mind structures my perception. And if you are giving me what I can trust, I can allow my senses to experience or open them to experience something.

[30:13]

Let's say that this model is new for you. If you bring this model into your, you make this model a mental posture, it will begin to affect how you envision a situation. And how you experience situations. And that experience will, as you get more, as this new model begins to loosen up the old model, And you begin to have some space between the parts of mind and body. You'll also be able to feel the satisfaction of the body. And the knowing of the body, but the knowing may first appear as dreams.

[31:54]

But, I mean, it often appears in zazen because you've suspended consciousness in zazen. And these other contexts of knowing. As I said, is there anyone else who wants to say anything? We're running out of time, and I'm going to assume that all of you are right on the edge of saying something, and I'm cutting you off, I'm sorry. At least I can have this fantasy Now, if we are thinking of a body of consciousness of the mind as conscious cognitive and reflexive, able to observe itself.

[33:23]

And if we think of the body as interrelated but also inter-independent, and within or as its inter-independence, The body is aware but not conscious in the usual way and mind. Is aware and cognitive. but not reflexive. It doesn't observe itself. In some ways it does, but mainly it doesn't. It seems that most people who try to talk about these things, human beings are...

[34:28]

the animal which is most reflexive in its augmentation. And if we view that phenomenon as the ingredients or as the field of engagement of the body's cognition and of the mind's cognition and phenomena in its inter-independence, has an independence from its own movement and presence.

[35:35]

unrelated to the cognitive capacities of mind and cognitive capacities of the body. Now, but in this model you can see that otherness starts with the body. From the point of view of the mind, the body is already other. As I can bring attention to Horst, I can also bring attention to my hands. So now we are performing B form is a new word I made up.

[36:57]

Find out tomorrow if it has any meaning. If I bring attention to you, I can bring attention to you in a way it forms my mind. And if I really am doing that, there's these mirroring genes or whatever they're called. What? I think there's no question that the kind of attention that I bring, that I generate here

[37:57]

and bring to you also affects you. As the relaxation of the Dalai Lama with those 10,000 people also affected her. So the assumption that that's the case is the assumption of the Bodhisattva. Okay, so as I can bring attention to you, I can bring attention to my hands. Now, I hope they are patient for a few minutes. When you go tell them to make some space with patience. Suzuki Roshi told me to put my mind in my hands.

[39:23]

I'm using these examples. And I mentioned this last weekend. And as I said last weekend, I didn't know what the heck he was talking about. Nobody told me in college you could put your mind in your hands. So I took my brain and put it in my hand. I didn't know what the heck he meant. Well, of course, I also didn't know what he meant by mind. And what he meant by mind was not what I meant by mind. So I would say now what he meant by mind was simply attention.

[40:24]

But to say you... So maybe the best way to say it is you create an attentional space in your hands. Okay, to create an attentional space in your hands. An attentional space in the thumbs. And in this yogic topography and tomography, The thumbs in particular are doorways to the body's attentional space.

[41:26]

Because your whole body can be attentional space. But you have to start somewhere. Okay. because there is attentional space anywhere in the body, but now we're talking about intending attentional space. And when you practice heat yoga, The entry, at least in our lineage, and how you practice it, is through the thumbs. Okay, now if we think of the hands as the body as the first field of otherness, Okay, so if I can bring attention, if I can generate attentional space in the hands and also use that to generate attentional space throughout the body,

[42:44]

it's sort of magical but it becomes a way attentional space is created in phenomena so by generating attentional space in the first territory of otherness You develop the move, the move, the move, like a dance move or something, which is the same as generating similar to generating intentional space and phenomena.

[44:06]

And more and more you find yourself within the intentional space which I would call the uncentered field of object engagement. Now, why I call it the uncentered field of object engagement is to be revealed tomorrow. But you, four or five or three who were here on the weekend, mum's the word. Mum's the word means don't talk. It's our little secret. Once I had a secret love that lived with me.

[45:09]

Let's stop.

[45:09]

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