Does someone have something they want to say? I try to be provocative. I don't provoke. Maybe you weren't here before. It's difficult to talk about mind. And for me in the first part, first session, the question came up, why Zen mind? And why a different activity of mine than that in which I am mostly located?

[01:17]

And why an attention to mind, towards mind, who notices that there is an activity? And because the mind I'm usually located in seems to not sort of be making me happy. I'm sorry. But it's good you notice it. You can do something about it. So you said a lot. I mean, you just said that we can observe mind, or at least the activity of mind. And we can observe, and we can only observe mind if it's an activity. And that observing mind as an activity, you can feel yourself located in that activity.

[02:51]

So then you become somebody who's defined by the activity of mind. Now, am I still saying versions of what you said? Okay, if you then identify yourself or notice that you identify yourself through the activity of mind, that's very different from saying I have a self or I'm a particular kind of person. So then that implies if you can really continuously or a lot, notice your, not self definition, but mind definition.

[03:55]

Is that noticing transformative of this definition, transforming this definition. And if we can imagine then, as you contrasted Zen mind and a certain kind of activity of mind, can we sort of relocate ourselves in a different activity of mind? In other words, if we can notice two different kinds of activities of mind, can we shift our sense of being located between the two? Now, what kind of history does this What kind of history do we accumulate as the self?

[05:18]

Or are we accumulating the history of the activity of mind? And then we identify with that particular activity as us. That particular activity. accumulation through that activity. And then is the observing function, which is observing the activity of mind, is that the self? Now does the observing activity accumulate experience as well as the activity of mind? Okay, that was all in what you said.

[06:33]

So, that's enough for a seminar. Yes, you were going to say something? You know, I have to have a cataract operation, I think, on my eye, because I can't see anything, you know, with the lights behind it. It's kind of great, you see this glow with silver. I can't drive at night anymore, safely. Okay. And I have a little taste of what it could be about, about this mind. But it takes many, many years to just notice so much. I have the feeling I don't live long enough just to proceed for probably five centimeters.

[07:57]

A tragic figure. Yeah. Why do I make this effort? What sense is there in taking this effort when I'm dead anyway? I feel that way sometimes. Manchmal geht es mir auch so. Now we're getting down to it. Can you give me an example of the centimeter?

[09:03]

Once I was at home for three days because I was a little ill. That's about three or four years ago. And I went for a walk and suddenly everything was very bright and the grasses started to sparkle. And there was no problem anymore. No problem. There wasn't any problem anymore. I know that this is what it has been, but since then I'm looking for and searching. You keep trying to get sick. Yeah, perhaps I'm too little to say them. You know, there's a story about the guy who goes on his way home and he scares a rabbit.

[10:22]

This is a famous little Zen anecdote. Scares a rabbit and it hits in a tree stump. And breaks his neck. So he brings the rabbit home and his wife thanks him and says, oh, now we'll have a great meal. And the next day she can't find him. Her husband. Finally she finds him sitting by the stump waiting for another rabbit. And that's what we do sometimes, not you. But we hope for another three days of sickness. Someone else? Yes, stillness.

[11:24]

It's great. It's such a wonderful glow. I like this. Everything's beginning to shimmer. Yes, I recognize you. Is stillness an activity or is activity surrounded by stillness? The absence of activity is an activity. Okay. It's true. Don't worry about it. Someone else. Yes. Yes. I haven't quite understood.

[12:27]

Is it two minds? Is it one mind observing the other? Or something else which observes the mind? Well, it depends on how you define mind. But if we give a practical definition of mind as something like the whole sense of aware aliveness, then mind can observe mind. Mind has the capacity to observe mind. If I can observe this stone, I can observe myself observing the stone.

[13:34]

It's no more complicated than that. But to have a mind which can observe the observation of mind takes some skill. But there's nothing mysterious about it. Except the whole thing is a mystery. Okay. Your experience when you were sick that day. If nothing else, you know something. You know that kind of experience is possible. That in itself is to some degree transformative. and has something to do with your sitting here in this seminar.

[14:46]

But also, if one has a centimeter difference, a centimeter difference gets wider and wider. And a centimeter difference can be incremental like on a ratchet on a wheel. So part of practice is when you have an experience like that it functions in you as knowledge and if you can find a way to practice and bring practice into your life you don't go backwards it ratchets you to

[16:04]

new understandings, new insights. It can. Of course, that's what Zazen practice and mindfulness practices and Sangha practice are all offerings in that direction. In fact, at what time are we supposed to have lunch? The schedule says one o'clock. She sounds flexible. Okay.

[17:12]

We'll try not to make you too flexible. Okay. So, before I try to say something, someone else wants to say something. I like it when you say something. I learn. Yes. Okay. And since a long time I practice with a sentence which I say to myself again and again. And originally I started to get to sleep better. Using a sentence? Yes. And in more situations of my life I used to use that sentence. And what I noticed and observed, this was a different kind of mind, I should call it, was sort of created, and usually when I started to practice.

[18:42]

A different kind of mind was created by starting to practice, or by using the sentence, or both? By using the sentence. Yeah, okay. By using this sentence, I have a certain bodily feeling. It is similar to the feeling when going to sleep, but What is different in this kind of practice? I can little, hardly observe myself. And I'm not so much present in things as more like the state when I would go to sleep?

[19:57]

And what I'm trying at the moment to find out, in what way is it this different from the normal situation when I'm just being unattentive? So you're calling the normal situation when you're inattentive. And the mind that appears or is nudged into appearance or arises when you use the sentence And the mind that appears when you use the sentence is more attentive. Although it's somewhat similar to falling asleep. Yeah. So you'd contrast sort of active mindfulness is somewhat different than what happens when you use this sentence.

[21:22]

But the use of the sentence is fruitful. More fruitful than attentive mindfulness? Well, that's interesting. You said a lot, too. Is the sentence a secret? Well, why don't you tell us the secret? I mean, because it could be a secret. Sometimes it's too personal. What is your sentence? I take refuge to the Buddha. I take refuge to the Dharma. And this just appeared when I was trying to fall asleep and I was looking for some time. A good way to fall asleep. It's funny, a sentence like that, whatever it means, has some power.

[22:29]

And we discover its power through repetition. And as most of you know, one of the characteristics of... Zen practice, rather different than all other Buddhist schools, is the use of phrases. The use of sentences. And on one level, the sentences could be almost anything. Auf einer Ebene könnten die Sätze eigentlich fast alles sein. I like watermelons. So wie, ich mag Wassermelonen.

[23:31]

So just for you to go to sleep. I like watermelons. So, wenn man also jetzt einschlafen möchte, dass man einfach sagt, ich mag Wassermelonen. You might try it. It might work. So you're injecting a kind of mindfulness by bringing a sentence in. And then you can shape the sentence with different words. And it's very interesting and a fact that our attention can be directed through words. So I wish I could find a sentence. I haven't found one yet. I don't think I can. For giving attention to activity rather than entities. Maybe non-entity would work.

[24:42]

Non-entity. Every time you see something, you think non-entity. And that's good to take away the sense of entitiness. And as I always say, entity-lessness is very close to emptiness. But the taking away of entitiness is very powerful. But it's not the same as noticing activity, or not exactly the same. So I just get in the habit of noticing activity, but I don't have a phrase to direct it. Yes, someone else?

[25:57]

Yes. Can one not say that to practice such a person with such a sentence, that this is only possible because the spirit is not unity and that this is already the activity? Is it possible to say that to be able to practice such a sentence is possible because the mind is not a single thing? Because the mind is not an entity, it's only possible to practice with a sentence because that's the activity. Yeah, that's right. And to notice that this is possible, as you said? That this is the activity to see it as an activity, that's the activity. And that's true. I thought it was something my daughter said, but I don't think I have any reason to tell you.

[27:10]

Yes. I have a question to the term field of mind. Is this field of mind the activity how I observe the activity of mind? And said with other words, that I hear hearing? Or is this field of mind wider? Meaning, the whole situation in which my activity is taking place and is being observed,

[28:14]

I observe and at the same time I'm aware of my breath. I'm aware of this room, of people in it, space around it. That is my question. For me this room is a relationship and the question is how big or small is this relationship? This space is... It's a mixture of relations. How big is it?

[29:30]

How much extends it? Well, everything you say is true. Except your idea of trying to measure it. It doesn't make sense to try to measure it. That's like trying to control it or make it an entity. It doesn't mean the field of mind is some kind of universal thing. It certainly has a locality. like space. But space has a locality, but you don't try to measure space. You can measure the room, but you can't measure the space. But what you brought up, we'll have to come to during the seminar. How is observing mind and being aware the same thing or the same activity?

[30:57]

I have the feeling of the room and when I observe myself, this is exactly the same. Is your feeling of the room the same as awareness? Or the same as observing? Yes, that's a question. Is your feeling of the room the same as observing? Yes and no. It's how to differentiate. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, technically I'd say no. I can observe this glass. The act of observing has nothing to do with the feeling of the room.

[31:59]

One of the differences between Buddhism and non-Buddhism, I mean, anybody who's alive brings attention to things. And to some extent you bring attention to attention. But what distinguishes Buddhism from most other teachings is Buddhism is all about bringing attention to attention. And you notice what you're attending, but you notice more fundamentally attention itself. And save a simple example.

[33:04]

I notice all of you. Each of you. But what I notice more basically or fundamentally is that I'm noticing my mind noticing you. So I'm always aware that you're only appearing to the extent that my mind notices. is able to let you appear. So if I know that I'm only knowing my own mind's ability to know, If I only know my mind's ability to know, we can make it simpler.

[34:15]

You said... Hearing, hearing. Again, we go back to this basic distinction. When you hear a bird... You're not hearing the bird. Or at least you're not hearing the bird the way other birds hear the bird. You only hear the bird within the capacity of your own hearing. So you're more hearing your own hearing, then you're hearing the bird. Now, if that's the case, how do you give independence to the bird? Because it's not just a figment of your mind. It's really quite separate. So there's wisdom in noticing that you're only hearing your own hearing.

[35:48]

And there's a further step in wisdom in allowing the mystery of the bird which you can't fully know. And in that mystery that you can't fully know is where the interrelationships of the world function. So by knowing that I am knowing my own mind in knowing each of you, I also simultaneously release you into the mystery of each of you individually. Then I feel the mystery of each of you appearing as my own mind.

[36:55]

Do you understand? When you can hear yourself hearing, then you could hear yourself hearing how you hear. No. Yes. There's another level then. Where does it stop? Oh, it's not an infinite regression. I mean, you can say, I hear my hearing, I hear the hearing of my hearing, but that doesn't lead you anywhere.

[37:56]

It's the same. To hear your own hearing and to know you're hearing your own hearing, that's just an idea. You can't experience it. Hearing your own hearing, hearing your own hearing, hearing your hearing of your hearing of your hearing, all collapse into hearing your own hearing. I mean, some people assume that that's a proof for the existence of God. Because you know your own knowing. And then you know the knowing of your knowing. And it finally gets so big only God can do it. But we Buddhists don't go there. Yes. It brings up for me a sense of arriving, which grew in starting to practice.

[39:26]

I noticed that I'm more tuned for the sense of arriving. I don't know how I do it, but I notice when it is there. What is your experience of arriving? It's a kind of peace. It's a kind of being satisfied. There's nothing to ask, nothing. It's just being there. German, please. It's about the feeling of arrival. And Roger asked what the experience of the feeling of arrival is. It's about peace. It's about silence. And it's about... There are no more questions? Yes? Excuse me? Just being there. Just being there, thank you. Okay.

[40:32]

Yeah, the sense of arriving, this is a good word. It's a good word. And there's no end to the depth of the experience of arriving. Okay, maybe we come back to that. Okay. Okay. Someone else? Yes. I get stuck with the difference of activity. I am stuck with the difference between activity and space. I get stuck with this difference between space and activity.

[41:45]

I just came up with the idea that the habit energy immer wieder Entitäten entstehen lässt. The idea came to my mind that the habit energy always lets entities be or creates entities or lets entities appear. Und dass ich das aufstöbe mit einem Satz oder mit der Awareness. And then with a sentence or with awareness I arouse that. This process just goes on and on, doesn't stop.

[42:45]

And despite this feeling of activity, a space is there and then I have the feeling I'm not attentive enough. The sentence or this specific attention separates me completely from what I otherwise identify with. The sentence or the specific attention separates myself without what I'm normally identified through. That's why I feel awake or active or alert.

[44:04]

And then it goes into a... I don't know, you can say a sponge, but also mist or into a... And then it changes into like a sponge or a fog or a cloud. No, then, if it's arriving or is it... Dump? Dump? It's a dump, but it does? Dull. Dull. Dull. Probably, yeah, like Foggy or... Was it just space?

[45:05]

Okay. Um... In English, the word practice has the sense of repetition. And repetition is an important part of practice. When you're bringing a phrase in You're bringing a phrase into it always, you know, like Heraclitus, the stream is always different when you put your hand in it. So every time you bring a phrase into the situation, the situation is always slightly different. But Practice is also a craft.

[46:12]

And a craft is, in English, implies a kind of fine-tuning of what you're doing. Okay, so I'm trying to give us some distinctions in language and encourage you to find similar distinctions for yourself in which you can fine-tune your activity. And I think what is happening to you is you're practicing, but at some point the fine-tuning of the practice gets out of tune. And that's often a matter of not just attentiveness, but a kind of overall vitality or energy.

[47:24]

And almost all the Buddhist lists, one of the categories is vitality or energy. The four this, the seven that, et cetera. For effort. And we don't have any word for effort, vitality, energy. We don't have a word for it. Yeah, but to be able to sustain a certain kind of energetic presence is a big part of practice. And that there's a craft to doing that, and that presence allows a craft to function. Okay.

[48:45]

So let me say a couple things. Or maybe a little more than a couple. Maybe only one thing. Which I'll try to unfold. And what's happened this morning is we've spoken about Asian yoga culture as a kind of entry to Zen practice and the context of what Zen means and the context then of what mind means when it's modified by Zen in a grammatical sense. Now, so the word mind when we put the word Zen in front of it does not mean the same as the German word geist.

[50:00]

It doesn't mean the same as the English word mind. So we're going to have to find a way to look at What mind, what's the activity of mind that's the same as and different from both Geist and the English word mind? Now, why bother to do this? Am I not being too intellectual or philosophical? Well, for some people I am being so, I think. But, To observe yourself, you observe yourself through distinctions.

[51:07]

A distinction is like a magnifying glass. Or a paper towel tube. Like a paper towel tube. Yeah. So if you observe yourself through your ordinary habits of mind, you'll only see your own habits of mind. If we observe yogic culture through our own habits of mind, we'll only see those aspects of yoga culture which are similar to our own.

[52:16]

And as a result, we won't see our own culture at all. Because we're invisibly observing through our own culture as if it was the way things are. So, It's how are we going to sort of like observe yoga culture or Buddhist culture, Zen culture from inside itself. And we actually have an advantage being Westerners that Asians don't have. Because if we can see the differences from our own culture, we can see into

[53:20]

yoga culture more clearly than someone whose yoga culture is just the way they see things. So Buddhist culture, Buddhist practice and culture is not going to be the same in the West. As it is different from Asia. Because our culture is different. But rather it may be more like the tradition because our culture is different. And I think you could make a historical study showing that every time Buddhism entered a new culture, it returned more clearly to its roots.

[54:42]

Because the new culture allowed a perspective to see what the tradition is, before it got acculturated. That's sort of like scratching your head. Anyway, you understand what I meant, right? It's true. It's true. Even if you didn't understand, it's true. So that's somehow what happened this morning. It's not what I imagined exactly, but it's what happened. So I would like to give you a few more little examples.

[55:52]

We can feel the differences. Okay. You know, when I first started to practice, I felt I was sort of in a diving bell. And I was being let down into... the water of another culture. And I didn't look at Japanese and Chinese and so forth culture that I was studying as a university student as well as a practitioner. I didn't look for its similarities. What I found exciting was the dissonance. Because the differences suddenly seemed new opportunities to be human. And I was so disturbed by our own culture and the wars and all that stuff that I was thrilled by the possibility of being

[57:10]

different kind of human being than my culture was trying to create me as. Thrilled. Thrilled, yeah. And I didn't have to become I didn't mean that I was trying to be an Asian person and then say, well, they have their own wars and problems too. So it wasn't so much I was trying to be a Buddhist. I was trying to figure out what it is to be alive and a human being in as fundamental sense as I could and I could use studying Asian culture as a way not to become Asian, but to find a way to notice what is most fundamentally human in any culture.

[58:55]

But it wasn't so intellectual as that. It was more the just simple experience of having a wider experience. Little nudges, little centimeters that made a difference over time. So when I was first let down by this diving bell, I really noticed this is different. It's almost as different as water and air. So after being dropped down in this diving bell which is partly the experience of doing Zazen and partly it was the experience of hanging out with Sukhiroshi first I just observed What's that?

[60:22]

And then one day, at some point, I started getting out and trying to swim. And mostly I sank to the bottom. But after a while I learned how to swim. Then I learned how to breathe underwater. Breathe water. And it felt something like that. Like a cartoon. Okay. Now what I feel is I've been brought back to the surface. And I'm trying to share with you what I learned and discovered. Now, it came up just the other day, or yesterday, I guess, when with several of you I talked about how we hit the bells. Oh dear.

[61:39]

These are really small little distinctions. But I'd like to see if you can hear the difference. Okay, when we do the service and you have this big bell. Okay. Entering an activity. And the activity is hitting the bell. Okay. How do you enter the activity? Now, if you know it's an activity. If you know it's an activity. It sounds so different in German.

[62:40]

Could you put the verb at the end? Yeah. And it turns it into a noun. Okay, well, anyway, it's fine. It's just interesting. You're entering the activity and you're returning from the activity. So you tend to do it as a circle. So you don't hit the bell Just hit the bell. I'm so sorry to give you all these distinctions. Okay. You want to be the facilitator of hitting the bell, but you don't want to hit the bell.

[63:44]

Does that make any sense? In other words, when I hit the bell, or you hit the bell, I don't want to hear your arm in the hitting. I want to hear the stick and the bell. So I want to make the stick able to hit the bell But I don't want my arm to hit the bell. Because I want the stick to be independent in its own mystery. So somehow I want to hold it very loosely so that... And then I want to not hit the bell again until the bell asks me to hit it.

[64:47]

And the bell's going... And it wants me to hit it when it's starting anew. And you can't think that subtly. You have to let your body know when to come in with the second stroke. Now, when you hit the bell, the custom is you can hit it any way you bloody please. You hit the bell with a circular motion. So you're making a circle like this. And you want to hit the belly of the bell, you don't want to hit the edge of the bell.

[66:00]

So you hit with an upward motion that glances off the bell. Okay. So one idea is here, is that you're entering activity through a circle. Now, entering and returning. And there's a certain kind of energy when you enter activity. When you release your energy and then pull it back in, the bell is going to sound differently than when you just put your energy out there. Now, this doesn't mean you always have to do things in a circle.

[67:05]

But in yogic culture, you do it as much as possible. We go up to the altar in a circle. When we pick up our Oryoki bowls, when we eat with the Zen bowls, You move them into your body and back out. And one of the things I've told you often is Sukhiroshi noticed in America we do things with one hand. Okay, so he said that. So I started watching him with my diving bell. he would not only do things with two hands so say that he was going to pass this stone to Neil he would pick it up with two hands he would not do this he just wouldn't do that he would pick it up, pick it up, not only would he pick it up with two hands, but the other hand was somehow present.

[68:29]

But he'd pick it up, And he pulled it into his own body. And then from this feeling, turn his body and pass it. Okay. What was clear is he wasn't passing the stone primarily, he was passing himself. So that's very different. And it's the difference between thinking in entities and thinking in activity. If you think in entities, I want to get the stone over to this guy. If you think in activity, then There's an activity of getting the stone over to him. And the activity is inseparable from passing the stone. And the activity is an opportunity for lots of other things to happen in addition to passing the stone.

[69:42]

It's why Toyota put General Motors out of business. It's absolutely true. Toyota viewed the car as an activity which one of the results of the activity was to get from point A to point B. General Motors and Ford, et cetera, viewed the cars getting from point A to point B and to hell with what it was like during the trip. German cars tend to try to get you there very well and fast. Yeah, well, and a BMW and a Mercedes too. Okay, but they had a different concept of the car.

[70:54]

Which everyone imitates now. Okay. Okay. So if this, okay, let me, I'll come back to the stone. All right, now another If we assume everything is an activity, and everything is interdependent, that's science and ecology and environmentalism and Buddhism. But in Zen practice, it doesn't just mean we're interdependent. In some, you know, scientific sense.

[71:59]

That means that my spine is related to your spine. That's taken for granted. But most of us don't take for granted that my spine is related to your spine, Erhard's spine. But I bet if you studied with a camera, a movie camera, an orchestra, And you slowed down, so you looked at each frame very slowly. You could see that the spines of the orchestra were like grass, blown together in a slight wind. That the orchestra is not only, they're sitting in chairs and things, but they're not only tuning their instrument, their bodies are somehow either explicitly or implicitly tuned.

[73:29]

All of the musicians have some kind of upright posture related to their instrument, whatever it is. And related to the other musician. Well, that kind of thinking is taken for granted by the dawn hitting the bell. And the stick, in the case of the bell, is big, is related to the spine. And you feel your spine in the stick. And you feel the stick in your spine.

[74:38]

And you feel that if your spine and the stick are in some kind of, not simply alignment, but some shared field. Everybody in the chanting fields' spine will be somehow in the same field. Okay, now to take for granted that your spine is related to other people's spine is an assumption of yogic culture, but not an assumption of our culture. And it makes you relate differently. But it's sort of implicit.

[75:52]

When you meet somebody, you stand up, you greet them, you shake hands. There's a certain posture with which you greet another person. And when the Queen of England comes in, says, hello, Dick, I don't say, hi, Queen, sitting back in my chair. Yeah, hi, Queen. Yeah, you don't do that. You stand up and say, oh, the Queen of England, hello. Or whoever, you know, when my translator comes in, I stand up. And I bet if you did a slow motion study of the two of us, there's some kind of rhythm going on between us and your spine and my spine that has something to do with the translation.

[76:54]

And the spine is a kind of mind. So these are examples of the difference between thinking in activity but thinking in entities. Because part of the thinking in activity is to think in terms of implicitly interdependence, but to bring it closer to home, it's to recognize we're already connected. We're not just establishing connection, we do that, but we're establishing a connection on the basis of being already connected.

[78:07]

So, Neil and I are already connected. And if I have this stone and pass it to him, I bring it in the field of my chakras, of my body, and I use it as an opportunity to pass myself to Neil. Yeah. So, when you hit the bell, say I'm going to hit it three times to start meditation. Really, you're not hitting the bell three times.

[79:14]

If I give instruction, hit the bell three times to start zazen, then you just get three bangs, bang, bang, bang. Okay, so rather than that I say, Hit the bell once and once and once. That's different than three times. And if I see the world as activity, the activity of hitting the bell allows me to be present in that activity. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And if I hit it once and once and once, each time it's different.

[80:18]

So I have an opportunity to have something, the activity is different on each time. Say that I'm in love with one of you. So when I first hit the bell, I say, Now imagine when you are in love with someone. Or you love somebody and they don't know you love them. And you kind of hope they might love you. And you're sitting at a table with a lot of people. And they ask for the salt. Here's the salt, darling. But you actually pass the salt differently with a feeling of putting it in her hands or his hands.

[81:23]

But we ought to be like that all the time, not just when you're in love. So then the second hit is... Come over here when you can. And then the third hit is... Do you understand? So there's some kind of mind brought to each hit of the bell. So if you hit the bell three times, it's three chances to bring... Caring, compassion, wisdom. And what does mind mean? What's the function of mind? If you look at the verbal use of mind, The use of mind is a verb.

[82:36]

Mind the baby. It means take care of the baby. Mind what you do. It means pay attention to what you do. I don't mind. In English that means I'm not concerned. So the... Activity of the word mind as a verb is care, concern, attention. So if I mind the bell... And it's assumed in yoga culture that every activity is an activity of mind.

[83:43]

And you bring caring, compassion, concern, attention to each thing you do. So you don't just hit the bell. You bring your spine, your posture, your mind into hitting the bell. So you please let's sit together. You have that feeling. I'm settling into my body. I'm settling into my body. settle into yours. So some kind of mind like that is part of every activity.

[84:48]

And that's what mindfulness and interdependence really mean in a human yogic culture. Okay, so now since I started Zazen with three hits, we have to have one hit to end it.

[85:15]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_73.11