Who's first? All right, let me ask, who's going to be second? We'll keep the first one for later. Yes. I'm very inspired by our discussion. It was very inspiring. Wonderful. I mean, you can't have lived through San Francisco in the 60s, he says. We first collected our experiences that we have around the terms spacey moments.

[01:06]

Okay. You get arrested for those things. And there were examples like when you breathe and on the exhalation at the end of the exhalation that at that point such a feeling arises. Or that it's there in a very surprising manner and you haven't seen it coming. That it also happens in meeting people or in having a discussion with people, no, not discussion, but conversation, that the subject-object distinction dissolves.

[02:18]

And perception shifts more into the field of the relationship. Or also in hearing music. Then we asked ourselves, is there a difference between spacious mind and zero mind? And then we wondered whether there was a difference between spacious mind and zero mind. And that was a question we talked about for a long time. We attributed things like the ten directions to spacious mind and to have a clear sense of space.

[03:30]

And then there was an interesting statement that for both of these the perceptual organ, the sense organ for that is the body, mostly it's the front side, the belly, but sometimes it's also the back. And it was more difficult for us to fasten zero mind. We talked about that maybe one can experience zero mind at thresholds.

[04:42]

For example, when falling asleep. Also, when you bring attention to that point where we said before, for example, that it's surprising when this mind arises where the other mind is already happening. And that zero mind is relatively difficult to keep, And that it's very difficult to hold zero mind because there's a lot of activity that carries you along.

[05:43]

Numberless. Zero mind. And also the distinction between stopped or paused mind and zero mind was a topic. And then in the end we asked the question, what does planting a blade of grass have to do with all of this? One idea was that the sense of time for a moment shifts into an architectural feeling, a sense of space. and that that develops in an interaction and in a mutuality and in transmission.

[07:12]

When it happens in a conversation, maybe by going for a walk, These are moments in a conversation where maybe you also speak your vows or intentions. And then we talked about how that relates to the precepts that we take when we do lay ordination. And maybe the tracks that we notice in the spacious mind as a direction we want to go in or a sense of that's where I want to go.

[08:36]

Okay, did you decide to leave nothing out? I left out a lot. Yeah, you don't seem to have left anything out. Okay, so the afternoon's over. But in any case, who's next? Oh, yes. I wondered why you gave that suggestion for us to discuss these words, because there are only four, I guess, spacious mind and zero mind. And so the way it worked for me was as an anchor. So... since, I don't know, this is the next to last day or something like that, the seminar.

[09:56]

I'm glad you're offering that, so I'll remember. And the image that came up for me, I've already shared that in our group, was candles ready to be lit. And the image that actually came up is from my biography, which is at my father's funeral service. My brother Christian and I are lighting those candles together. The congregation is waiting for the service and the priest to show up. And so this is how we entered into the situation and gave us a good feeling too.

[11:08]

to remember the heritage of our father. So then, yeah, this image connected with the Heart Sutra, which you have sometimes called a prescription on how to die. So I hope when I die, I'll remember. No ears, no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue. Okay, yeah, I like your father. I know I do. Okay, someone else. You want to translate, please? Mm-hmm. These words that you gave us, the zero spirit and the spacious mind, had to do with a picture from my biography.

[12:21]

Namely, the picture that appeared were candles that were lit. And it reminded me of the funeral of my father when my brother Christian and I lit these candles. It was a good moment for us to remember what he left behind and to hold on to it. It also had a connection with the Heart Sutra. And these four words gave her an anchor. I don't understand a word, but I know what she said. I don't understand a word, but I know what she said.

[13:30]

So the four words gave Ulrike an anchor. I can tell. I don't know the words. Okay, who's next? Yes. I would like to say that for the course of our group it was very important that they reminded us that we only exchange experiences. I would like to say first that for how the process of our group went on, it was very important for us to remind ourselves that we would only talk about experience. And more precisely, experience that we remember and that we associate with these terms. And that there is no such thing as good or bad experience or right or wrong. And that there is nothing like good or bad or right or wrong experiences. And that it's not necessary to be the one who has the right understanding. And that we all wish to be the one who has the right understanding and keeps appearing.

[14:40]

We talked about spacious mind and zero mind. And for some of us in the beginning this was so intimately connected that it didn't really make sense to discriminate. But then we collected a few different voices and that's what I would like to present. With Zero Mind we connected that it has something to do with when you do something where the procedure is given and to do it in a way as if you don't know what you are doing. To do something without knowing what comes next. and woke up again after the step.

[15:54]

And when that happened, it was particularly good and usually not corrective. and someone told that he likes to write and that usually it's the case that he kind of drops into the writing and then afterwards appears from the writing and that reappears from the writing and when that happens then usually what was written is very good and doesn't need to be corrected. And someone said that zero mind felt for him like pausing for the particular. And then we had the image of Mahakasyapa who receives the flower in zero mind. And somebody said zero mind is something like breathing into the gap between two thoughts.

[16:57]

And then we had a few conceptions about spacious mind. One person is new to the group and also new to the activity of the group and that person felt spacious mind like being carried through the group and within the activity of the group. And someone associated spacious mind with the sense of a field that appears in between people after a few days of sashin.

[18:01]

And we could agree upon that there's the possibility to focus the mind and to extend the mind. And also your reminder on the English word circumstances, we like that. And then as a kind of definition for a spacious mind we said to hold all perceptions simultaneously and equally. Not bad. What else? Yes, David? In our group, we first talked about a special man.

[19:21]

And arguably talked first about a special man. And different examples were given, some of which had a Samadhi-like character, or as it was described. And first we named a few experiences that were described like having a somatic character, being somatilike and that this is also a physical feeling And somebody described it as being unstable also that when you have this feeling you can't move physically because otherwise you would lose it. And then the question came up, is that the same as zero mind?

[20:23]

And several people described what they understand as zero mind, which was different to spacious mind. For me, an example for zero mind is that when I am dawn and read the time, Then sometimes I'm able to see the number not as a number but maybe like a Chinese sign that I have never seen before. And that's a moment where I have a zero mind where I really don't know anything. Well, I don't know if we want to let you ring the bell.

[21:32]

We might be there months waiting. Is that Chinese? Other people describe the state or the feeling that you have when you wake up in the morning And it was described almost like a difficulty. Mm-hmm. To find one's way into the day to remember where am I, what do I have to do to be in this intermediate zone where really nothing is happening.

[22:32]

Yeah, I've had that experience now and then. And then I think, oh, I'm going to encounter my life with Zazen. When do I encounter it? No, when I feel that way, I have no choice but to encounter Zazen. If I can crawl to the Zender. And somebody described a moment as the zero mind in Oriyuki. Where actually everything is gone, black out or blank out. where everything is gone, a kind of blank out. I don't know how we got to the topic, but we somehow did. We came to the topic of stepping back during the services. and it seems to be a strong feeling to step back, although I don't want to bring up the details, but this step back has created this quality of the zero mind.

[23:53]

And this stepping back seems to create the qualities of zero mind, I don't want to talk about all the details, but there seems to be a quality. Yeah, good, thanks. Were you going to say something? I was going to say something. Oh, go ahead. We have a professional, at least a very good translator here. The feeling for me about zero mind has a feeling of returning to a kind of baseline of experience. So it's a kind of reversal for me. where experience is based before my thinking mind divides the world up. And I'm able to have some entry to this primarily through my experience of breath.

[25:07]

Breathing the world in and mixing the world that I breathe in with my breath. And then giving that away. So there's the feeling also in this zero mind of returning. Yes? I'd like to do the report in English. Our group is in English and my daughter in English. Fine. Can she translate? She can. She was in the group, so she can. Oh, yeah. Okay. Our discussion began with the clarification of the terms spacious mind and spatial mind.

[26:15]

Spatial mind is the term that has been facial. Specialized. Specialized mind and spacious mind. So the discussion began with us discussing whether it was spacious mind or spatialized mind, which was the term that Roshi also used in Teisho. And spatialized is translated or can be translated as verräumlicht. And this spatialized I have translated as verräumlicht. And spacious as weitläufig. And spacious as weitläufig or weit. and it was felt to be a significant difference. A specialized mind being contrasted to a temporalized mind, those are terms that Jean Gertzak uses. You're right. No, actually he's not using the terms, but he's talking about that distinction.

[27:23]

Oh, okay. Good old Gibson. And a spatialized mind would seem to melt into space and animate space. The temporalized mind is a mind that is inhabited by discursive thinking. So that was the beginning of the discussion and then people recounted experiences of a spatialized mind or a spacious mind or a zero mind.

[28:24]

In Zazen, counting to one as opposed to counting to ten seemed to be a device to enter that kind of mind. And then the idea of counting to zero was proposed as maybe being more effective. What did you do this morning? I counted to zero. You mean you didn't do Zazen. What did you do this morning? I counted to zero. You mean you didn't do Zazen. One person said by paying attention to shadows as opposed to objects. We're getting far out here.

[29:25]

It's good. Come out pretty far now. That's good. A person said that if you pay attention to the shadows and not to the objects, That this can be an entry into a specialized mind. And another person associated with taking the backward step as a mental gesture. And then the question was whether the quality of certain moments of joy that anyone could experience, listening to their child laugh or watching a kitten's play, if that isn't an incident of spacious mind. And, yeah, go ahead. The comment was that this would be the sort of experience that can be collected as opposed to the zero mind which can be cultivated.

[30:30]

And then there was the suggestion that this is the kind of experience that one collects against the experience where one cultivates or develops the zero spirit. And at that point, again, one person spoke about an unusual experience in Sashin when one participant brought her mother along to Sashin. And the mother was suffering from Alzheimer's and was very calm and would just sit wherever you put her. And so... A very advanced student. Was this at a Sashin? No, this was at a Sashin Hall. Yeah, because I've never been in such a Sashin unless it was me. But the mother seemed to be a very good teacher because she was always in the now.

[31:51]

Yeah. But not necessarily in the note. Let me translate. Then at the point where one experience was reported, one person had, when she sat in a sashin, where the sashin teacher brought his mother to the sashin, who had Alzheimer's. And you could just sit there everywhere and she sat there still. um then there was a mention of the practice of dropping away body and mind and the experience of asking yourself then, what remains if you drop away body and mind?

[32:53]

It's being something like an experience of death. And the question of what remains would be perhaps the intention and the posture, physical and mental posture that go along with intention. And then we talked about this practice with the sentence of dropping body and mind and the question of what remains when body and mind are dropped. And there was the suggestion that what remains is maybe intention and attitude and that this is also an experience that has a lot to do with a feeling of death. If there's anything I've missed, people in the group are welcome to. There are other things, of course, that weren't mentioned. Thanks. Yes?

[33:53]

Ricard? For me it's interesting when you are in a conversation with someone and it's a very intense encounter or you have a very intense conversation. And sometimes I have the feeling that a field is created. where the focus seems to not so much be within me, but the focus shifts into the field.

[34:56]

And this sharp distinction between me and the field or the other seems to dissolve. And it feels like you are in a soap bubble and the world outside, or even time, And there's this experience that feels like being in a bubble and looking at the world outside and the world outside happens in slow motion. And what strikes me is this feeling of the strong presence. There is the feeling of the strong presence and every detail is very sharp. And for me the question would be whether that has anything to do with zero mind or that that's a different form of mind.

[36:19]

Okay, thanks. Danke. Yes, Tara. Well, for me, the whole week, it was actually continuous, but much more than usual, in such a spatial spirit. And I had nothing at all to think about or to deal with exactly. And that was also very new and very beautiful for me. For me, this week I had the experience that I was almost all the time, well not all the time, but quite often in a spatial mind and I was not interested in in thinking or analyzing or understanding anything at all. And I allowed myself to tap into Roshi's space.

[37:27]

I thought something was happening. I still had the feeling that something was going on. It was like that, that my body just does these things and it can do that very well and wonderfully and I was always ready and in front of everyone else. and now what really happened was that already before the taisha during oriyuki um i noticed that my hands are just doing these things my entire body is just doing these things and i know how to do that very well i'm always done before everybody else and i thought that well maybe that can't be it either

[38:29]

And then I allowed myself to look at what you are doing, Roshi. And suddenly, I looked at you and a quality came to me that was completely new to me in connection with Orioki, because it was just this quality of silence. And when I looked at Yoroshi, I experienced this quality that somehow arose within me that was very new to me, at least in connection with the Ariyoki, which is the stillness within the Ariyoki. And next to this physical awareness and this spatial quality, that was just something that extended it for me and made it fuller.

[39:38]

Yeah. Okay. Next time ask. No, all the doors are open. Especially for you. Yes. I would like to bring in one point from our group. Maybe the others can add something. I would like to add one point from our group and maybe others can add more. And I also wondered whether there is a difference between zero mind and spacious mind. And when we do dohan training or tenkan, when we have a new tenkan or also the clackers during the meals?

[40:59]

And you can hear very clearly whether someone is in a spatial mind when the person is using the instruments. Whether a person stands right in front of the board or how the person is holding the schlegel. The striker. The striker. All of these things you can hear and they give you a hint at whether the person is in a spatial mind. And you can also hear, there is sometimes such a curiosity, when someone has a cup of tea on the table in the morning and goes for a short tea between the beatings. You leave that to this ordinary mind and you can hear that, even if you don't see it. And you can even hear when in between the strikes, when somebody goes back to the table and picks up their teacup, even though you can't see it, you can hear it in how the person is sitting, the Han.

[42:17]

And more in detail would be, for example, if you only had two beats, like the end of the meal in the evening, And maybe in more detail, if you just take two hits, like at the end of the meal in the evening. So that you can hear it when someone makes a hit, a kind of zero-geist between the hits, and then makes the second hit, and not two hits in a row. But also you can hear whether somebody is in between the two hits, whether somebody drops into a kind of zero mind rather than doing two of these hits right after one another. That was one example from that. Yeah. I think that's also exciting in terms of zero mind. Because if you have a leading function, like Doan,

[43:22]

then you still don't feel moved and then you wake up at the same time for the next action. And this is such an area between potential shyness and oversleeping. There is a very clear emphasis on the difference to be there at the moment. I can't really say more, but for me at lunchtime, I don't think that the car will come. Nico, do you want to translate it for yourself? I find it exciting doing the Doran at Oryoki. You're in kind of a leading function, and you're supposed, in a way, you're supposed to do it right. More or less. But you keep on falling into a zero mind, just in time, most of the time.

[44:28]

And you wait until the cards have to be passed around. And you're suddenly in a field between embarrassment and wanting to do it right and having to do it right. And somehow it works out, but it's a very good teaching. to discriminate those minds. Well, one of the reasons we can't, we find it hard to count to ten in Zazen, it's not just because we're interrupted by thoughts. It's because Something like zero mind hasn't been taught to count. So consciousness clearly knows how to count. All of us, you know, one, two, three, four, five.

[45:33]

So it's not that consciousness doesn't count because it starts thinking. It's that, let's say, awareness hasn't learned how to count. He hasn't learned how to make distinctions. Because, again, consciousness has got this, as I say, the little etymological unit in there of SCI, which is the same as scissors, which means to separate, to cut. So consciousness is the field of the mind which separates things, divides things, distinguishes. Awareness is characterized by connectivity.

[46:35]

And connectivity is a hard time counting. But in effect, in zazen, you're educating awareness. And that awareness begins to be able to make distinctions. And then awareness can more function. You can drop out of context, in effect, and yet awareness somehow brings you back in at the right moment. And it's like the near magical function that the mind, while you're asleep, can wake you up at a very specific time. Like a magical function. It's like a magical function.

[47:45]

Almost as if the mind awareness could watch the clock while you're sleeping and wake you up really almost to the second. Okay. So I really would like to just continue and listen, but then, you know, if you want me to say something, I better, we better, somebody else want to say something? I wanted to say that the discussion this afternoon was quite a challenge for me. And in the sense that for the first time I really had no idea what was going on and what that was good for.

[48:57]

And it was very interesting to see how that very suddenly turned around. I don't quite know how we did it, but for me it was like this missing part in a puzzle that all of a sudden appeared. Yes, and that's just the way it is. I would like to express this now, the reminder that this wish in me is there, that we can all wake up together. So that's kind of something that happens. And what was there all of a sudden, and I just want to express this now, is that there is this wish inside me that we all together can and may awake together.

[50:14]

Awaken together. Awaken together, yeah. Okay. Yes, me too. Okay, I'm not sitting here. I'm in some location that you've created. And from that location you've created, I should say a few things. Yeah, it feels good, this location you've created. And probably I would say the most important thing about this discussion we're having now and implied in the whole seminar is it makes us aware of the phases of mind

[51:23]

The textures of mind. Even the different locations of mind. And certainly the different experiences of mind. And the good thing about this discussion is it's mostly anchored in experience. And what makes it possible, it's anchored in a mutual experience. I would say that this kind of conversation is sane-making. Although it can also be a little scary.

[52:41]

And I worry, actually, over many years, decades, I've refrained from having this kind of conversation with practitioners. Because if there isn't real mutual experience, it can be crazy making. And I remember when I was young, When was that? Yesterday. That long before I started practicing I had a tendency to concentrate very strongly on something. Yeah, I would, you know, For example, we had to write an essay a day in my high school class.

[53:49]

You know, one or two pages. And what the heck can you write about? Every day, something new, you know? You know, I mean, I can remember one of them. I worked in a grocery store. Yeah, a supermarket. It was a grocery store. But anyway, it was a supermarket. And I worked in the produce department. In what department? Produce, that's fruit and vegetables. Should I know? They all said it, and then he confirmed.

[55:04]

Yeah, and I wrote things like essays called Potatoes, Parsnips, and People. i really liked the parsnip soup the other day it reminded me yeah and um and so what can you do um but describe things. I mean, you run out of things to talk about, so you describe something. So I found if I describe something in considerable detail, which requires really paying attention to something, which is again called, it's similar to in the koan, getting the beginning. So that you're really receptive to immediacy.

[56:17]

I found at a certain point I would flip into some kind of spacious mind. It was bright and clear and filled the space around me. So I thought this was a very good suggestion from the teacher to have to write every day. And those experiences were quite, yeah, formative for me. But actually, I forgot about them really until I started meditating seven or eight years later.

[57:18]

But those and other experiences made me feel a little crazy. Because I couldn't find anybody else who had similar experiences or would talk about them anyway. So if you start experiencing, like in high school or something, other modes of mind, it can make you feel crazy. So now we're giving ourselves permission to notice other modes of mind. And that's the most important part of our discussion here is just the awareness of other modes of mind. And we're not crazy. And we can And we can know that through anchor, and we particularly know that not only through our mutual experience.

[58:34]

Yeah. But also through being anchored in experience through Zaza. Yeah, I mean, just talking about funny things like being able to wake up at 6.02 or whatever number I always use. I also found in the produce department that things are like three pounds for 49 cents. Or something like that. I found after a while I could just pick up the amount and say, oh, the price is such and such, without weighing it. And this would be quite complex calculations, actually, you know, so many ounces and so much, whether it's five for this or three for that.

[59:47]

And I could just write it down in the paper bag. Sometimes people say, would you please weigh that? I put it on the... I couldn't do it now. But I discovered that, first of all, it was based on doing it over and over and over again. you know, dozens even, 100 or 200 times in a day. But also, I couldn't think. I had to let it happen. So there was a kind of thinking that went on clearly in the background that wasn't conscious. Okay.

[60:49]

Now, I think, okay, the next point I'd like to make about this in relationship to the koan is this is emphasizing mind as a physical location. So the Buddha points his finger He plants it in the ground, the grass, or the marker. Okay, so it's clearly meant to be a transmission of mind, but it's also a transmission of mind that's physically located. So now we're talking about your spatial mind, zero mind, etc.

[62:13]

But really in this koan it's emphasizing a physically located mind. Yeah, and I tried to talk about that earlier today in the tesha. that in the model of the teacher and disciple there's an indirection in how you're taught so that the indirection does not become a direction Indirect. [...] But indirect way of teaching becomes an indirection.

[63:35]

Okay? Jan, can you say something again? You're such a sweet person trying to do these things. Okay. Now, there's a... I'll just go on, right? And then we'll forget about that and come back to it. Okay. There's a term I think Plato uses or something. Aporitic. Apora. Aporitic. Aporitic. Probably it's a technical term. Maybe the same in German. Anyway, just use it in English. But it means an impasse. Es geht nicht weiter. Oh, sorry. I didn't mean to hit you. That's okay. Impasse, something you can't pass.

[64:36]

Impasse. Aber es bedeutet, dass es eine Sperre ist. Or a puzzlement. Okay, but it means an impasse or a puzzlement in a positive sense. And it's related to great doubt. Okay. So, now, it sounds funny that that an impasse can be positive. Because in an impasse there's no possibilities. Or rather there's no position that you can take because everything is in direction. There's no direction. So it's a state of mind in which you, because you can't take a position, all positions are possible.

[65:49]

Okay. So, and Nagarjuna is really into this big time. So a mind that's neither nor is an aporetic mind. You can't say it's this, you can't say it's that. So that takes away all definitions and explanations. But then the mind functions free of definitions and explanations. Okay, so neither nor is a mind. Now, it's like I said earlier, I practice sometimes with not existent, unspeakable.

[66:51]

Yeah, and this would be a way to bring in, I don't know, maybe I'm getting too technical here, but I don't think so. This is a way to bring in the experience that Nagarjuna is pointing to in his, yeah, teaching. That's how Nagarjuna is not philosophy but practice. Now I took the I took the Dogen's teaching of the three worlds and used them to talk about past, present, and future.

[67:58]

But Dogen's actually speaking about three worlds as the world of, as I said earlier, desire, form, and formlessness. And he's talking about a statement at the beginning of the Avatamsaka Sutra, which is a Huayen teaching. Yeah, right, exactly. which says that the three worlds are only mind. Yeah, now the three worlds are the world of desire, and the world of form, and the world of formlessness. Yeah, now maybe tomorrow Ntesha might try to speak about that, why those are important distinctions. But the world of formlessness is an aporetic mind.

[69:01]

Because it's a mind it's a world the mind can't grasp with form. Okay. Now Zero mind is a mind like that. And now it's not in one way so different from spacious mind. But I think that the fact that we all notice there's some difference and the fact that we use different words, we'd say, oh, this is spacious, this feels spacious. So the guest outside of creation is not a spacious mind.

[70:02]

It's a spatial mind. Another distinction you guys made. No. No. I'll wait. You don't have to speed up. Now you don't have to know anything that I'm talking about. You don't have to remember it. It's sneaking in there and it'll appear at 6.02. Okay. I'm talking to the lacquer bucket. Do you know what the lacquer bucket represents?

[71:02]

Mm-hmm. But don't. After all these years. You're going to kick the bucket. No, that's my job. A lacquer bucket means it's really also why our Orioki bowls are black. Because a black lacquer bucket, you can't see the bottom of it. So it means utter darkness. It means in the midst of the light there's darkness. And it's in the teaching of the Sandokai.

[72:04]

Yeah. And I think it's also in David Byrne where he talks about the water flowing underground. That was just a pop culture footnote. Okay, for the heck of it. Okay, talking to the lacquer bucket. Okay. Now, and I'm also speaking about this because it's part of this koan and because it's part of Chinese culture. Do you remember the koan statement we've used a number of times? Myriad things and I... are one body.

[73:07]

Share the same body. Heaven and earth and I share the same root. So that's your spine. But it's also, and spine represents Zazen Mantra. Because when you locate your mind in your spine, it's Zazen mind, it's Kundalini mind, etc. May I ask something? Yes. That was spatial. That was spatial. Okay, okay.

[74:22]

This was a question that came to me during Zazen, and it went also, you went through it so quickly now, and I'd like to know more about whether the guest from outside creation, was that a spacious mind, or was that a spatial mind? Spatial mind. Yeah, and then why is that so? And why? Don't try to understand. Just accept. Understand later. Accept now. Okay, so you know that in Buddhism we talk about the ten directions. You all understand that, right? The eight cardinal points, you know, north, northeast, east, etc., eight, and up and down. And in Chinese cooking and medicine and all kinds of things, they talk about the five directions.

[75:32]

Okay, now the five directions are, of course, north, south, east, west, and center. Okay, so now what does it mean that north, south, east, west are a center? It's a really entirely different conception than we have. And it's interesting that the world is, people look at things differently. You know, we count one, two, three, four, five. One, two, three, four, five. Is that how you count in German? Yeah. One, two, three. No, you do it differently. One, two, three, four, five. What do you do? One, two, three, four, five. Oh, you do one, two, three, four, five.

[76:34]

And the Chinese and Japanese do one, two, three, four, five. That's different. That's different. One, two, three, four, five. They disappear. Where are they? I had five things. I don't know. I always tell kids, you know, that's it. Let's count the spaces. I say, one, two, three, only four spaces and five fingers? And then they say, well, there's... Well, no, there's the fifth, but that's six, you know, it's fun. Okay, so if they talk about five directions and the Fifth direction is the center. It means that the directions point to you to make the center. So it means you have a relationship to the circumference which turns you into a center. Also bedeutet das, dass du eine Beziehung zu dem Umstehenden hast, was dich zum Mittelpunkt werden lässt.

[77:58]

You know these folks, oh dear, oh dear, what can the matter be? Dickie's so wrong. Anyway. Uh, yeah, yeah. Hmm. So if these four directions make a center, and then the center, it's a center because it includes the four directions. And literally in Chinese popular culture, that's considered heaven. Because you have a relationship to... You can't really... I could say various things, but it's actually an experience that makes you feel that you're in the midst of the truth.

[79:19]

When you expand the five to ten, then you say heaven and earth and I share the same root. It's the same idea. And these people are studying consciousness and there's a lot of them these days. One psychologist does what he's called, I think, descriptive experience Synchronicity or something. D-E-S. And he attaches a little beeper to people. And whenever it beeps, they have to stop and write down what their experience is at that moment.

[80:21]

And it beeps irregularly. And then this person has collected all the episodes, trying to understand what the mind is like at various points. Will you stop and notice it? Because mostly we don't stop and notice it. But in a sense, what the Chinese are doing is something that's somewhat related. Or more Buddhist practice is in seeking these moments Or rather learning how to create these moments. During the day when everything flows in. It's the zero mind because everything flows in.

[81:37]

It's not exactly a spacious mind. It's a little different experience. It's not so much a matter of feeling connected and inclusive. It's more a feeling of being taught or knowing. And from Nagarjuna's point of view this moment which is neither nor this aporetic moment, when you are both puzzled and open, it's kind of like a moment when the world falls silent.

[82:50]

This is not against so much a mind that you feel interiorized, Das ist nicht so sehr ein Geist, den du verinnerlicht fühlst, sondern du fühlst dich offen, weil du keine Position hast. Oder es fühlt sich an, als ob die Welt auf einmal in die Stille gefallen ist oder innehält. Oder so wie ich das gesagt habe, du lässt den Lotus blühen. Okay, so this mind, it's related to Nagarjuna and Dipankara and Dharmakaya and so forth, is considered the mind of transmission.

[83:54]

Now you can understand better perhaps why transmission is called mind-to-mind transmission. And why mind-to-mind transmission is called the transmission of no mind. Because it's the transmission of this, let's say, for a way to look at it, this zero mind. Yeah, so that's where this koan gets us to. And I couldn't have predicted we'd get here until this particular group looked at this particular koan. Und ich hätte nicht vorhersagen können, dass wir an diesen Punkt kommen, nämlich bis diese spezifische Gruppe genau diesen spezifischen Choren betrachtet hat.

[85:03]

Now, I mean, I hope that what happens here is it increases our sensitivity to... the geography and the geomancy of mind. The divining mind, like water, the divining one. I've never brought her to speechlessness before.

[86:07]

Non-existent. Unspeakable. be sensitive to the nuances of mind, and to know when you're either a child or an adult that when the question comes up, what is the color of the wind? Und zu wissen, dass obgleich du es nicht weißt, egal ob du Kind oder Erwachsener bist, wenn die Frage auftaucht, was ist die Farbe des Windes?

[87:15]

These are moments you shouldn't brush aside, but allow yourself to be open to. Das sind Momente, die du nicht zur Seite schieben solltest, sondern für die du offen sein solltest. Allow the world to fall silent. Der Welt erlauben in die Stille zu fallen. And start speaking to. Okay. Another day, another dharma.

[87:36]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_75.61