Since recently, I'm a philosopher. A scientific philosopher. I think I've been a philosopher of life before. Yeah, I hope. And I'm beginning to build a financial standing leg. Do you have that expression? So that you can stand financially. A financial base. That's hard for philosophers to do. And the idea is coffee and philosophy. Can I have tea? It's possible. Alright. This idea is not burdened with illness or trying to become healthy.

[01:05]

but I want to create a space that offers the possibility to have a A conversation without gaining ideas. Ich habe Erfahrungen damit gemacht, die teilweise rein zufällig entstanden sind. Or without goals, a conversation without goals. And I have made experiences that came about coincidentally. I had the last conversation I had in a cafe with a 77-year-old woman named Mariana. And then I noticed that I did the following, something which you did yesterday.

[02:41]

Yesterday you turned towards Gerald. I turned towards Marianne. And then what happened is that something that was just said by Andrea is something like I actually disappeared. And Mariana was there. And Mariana was there. From now and then, there was an impulse to have to say something. After 45 minutes, Mariana was somehow shining, beaming, and said to me,

[03:42]

That she was simply so happy to have met me. That she wanted me to write down what I had just told her. Ich riss aus meinem Schreibbuch tatsächlich ein Blatt and wrote für Marianne zum 77. Geburtstag, den hatte sie Denk an Folgendes Think of the following. And then I just wrote down what came out of my impulse, And then I just wrote what had come from my impulses and then ended with many heartfelt greetings and be well and so forth.

[05:11]

And then what happened was that I had to turn back. And then I noticed that in the meantime the café had really filled up. And I noticed how the people who were there still felt the contact between me and Mariana although I was already leaving the table. In the space that was created between her and me, there was, well, I don't know what there was.

[06:19]

I personally am always very happy afterwards. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Martin? Yes, I have a few, shall I say, flowing associations to the topic of the inner attentional space or so on. I have some flowing associations about the topic, inner attentional space or body. And I've been wondering whether there's anything like that in Western psychology. And then what came to mind is that in recent years the concept of metacognitive activities has been investigated.

[07:27]

and how that is applied or accessible in the development of the I or the Self. It has to do with the fact that many of the clients have very little of this ability, very weak metacognitive capacities, or more simply the inability to see and feel oneself. And one of the difficulties in therapy is that many people don't have very much of the metacognitive capacities, the capacity to see oneself and others. It's not well developed. And one aspect that I noticed from my own work, or from the therapeutic work in general, how best this ability is created, is through space contact. And what I saw through my own work is that the main way that this capacity is educated in the West is through eye contact.

[08:54]

And that the space we are talking about is not only one that establishes or holds or connects relationships, but that there are also recognizing qualities in it. and that the space that we are talking about here, sorry, I didn't understand you in between, can you repeat that again? That the space that we are talking about here, Vera for example, is not only something that enables or invites a relationship, or something that holds or nourishes, but that this space, So that the space that we're talking about here, like Gerald did, does not only enable relationship or nourishes relationship, but that it also has a cognitive aspect to it, a cognitive capacity.

[09:57]

What are we asking? Cognitive, yeah? Capacity. Capacity. And one of the investigations that were done in Harvard, by the way, is the question of what does this metacognitive capacity do is not that the parents or relatives are not only interested in the well-being and well-being of a child Specifically that the parents or the people the child refers to, they are not just dealing with the who and the where. Das Wohl und Wehe. Wo, wo und wehe. The who and the where of the child. Nein, das Wohl und Wehe.

[10:59]

Das Wohlergehen. Das Wohlergehen, okay. The well-being. Okay, now I have it. Was eine Art von Sicherung und sicherer Bindung schafft, the well-being of the child, which gives a certain kind of security. But that seeing the child in all its different aspects, that that creates this extra layer of consciousness. Do you mean that a child which has caregivers or parents who function in metacognitive space influence the child to develop metacognitive space? Yes. That might then be part of... bringing up children so they have an experiential sense of non-duality and not just duality.

[12:16]

And what is very interesting on the practical side for me, is that this anchoring of bodily space also creates awareness and a form of spatiality and openness that is comparable or similar to what has been done in the West, so to speak, in psychology, and which still has a very simple foundation. And one thing that's interesting for me from a practice point of view is that anchoring oneself in bodily space, that that gives a similar dimension or basis to... That gives a similar awareness. That psychology has also... develop that through this concept. And it adds something to it. It gives a more foundational ground.

[13:31]

Add something to the Buddhist idea or add something to its own development? No, it adds something to the psychological understanding. I see, I see. Anybody have any comments on what Martin has just said? Yes. Yes. or anything you want to say. A moment. I also think it's very interesting, just like Martin said, there have been a lot of theories in recent years in psychology, the body as a resonance ground for empathy or the theory of intersubjectivity and so forth. I think before these metacognitive findings come, the patients come because their feelings are in order and they are looking for a bond, a love or something like that in others.

[14:51]

But this metacognitive capacity, that's what people first seek when they come to me as a client, is they seek a dyadic relationship. What is that? True people, yes. They sort of buy that affection or that being paid attention to in some way, first of all. So the non-dual aspect can first of all be a kind of frustration because what they are looking for is the sciatic relationship. I understand. Yeah. Thank you. Several states in Germany have already incorporated this idea into their education curricula.

[15:55]

And it's one of the most, it's one of the most difficult things, because it's about attitude and attitude, and you can't directly convey or change them. And there are groups of people who are very much concerned about how to deal with it carefully. And that's one of the most difficult things to do because what this is about is attitudes and postures, and that's not easy to convey. And so there are groups working on how to exactly deal with the problem. Okay, thanks. Andrea? We have a research that has already appeared once or twice in the consciousness. And what Martin just spoke about, that brought back to mind a scientific research that I had thought about a couple of times before today. Und das ist die Arbeit von Daniel Stern.

[17:17]

The work of Daniel Stern. I wrote my thesis on the topic of the early body image as the basis for the development of the self. and what he describes as in these early dyadic relationships, the transmodal patterns. And what he says is that it's kind of like a dance between mother and child, and I think that's a good image. And I don't know exactly why, but from my point of view that is a kind of a meta quality. which to make that accessible and to have it be accessible, that I think is useful in therapy.

[18:37]

Mm-hmm. And somehow for me, always, this theory and my Buddhist practice, they've always somehow touched one another, related to one another. I don't exactly understand why. Because it's you. About those metacognitions I have a really simple model to offer for the non-therapists at this point. There are experiences that are neutral, without value. Then there is the labeling of these experiences. And then there is the judgment, the assessment of these experiences, whether it was good or bad or whatever.

[19:41]

And then there's the judgment, or the assessment of the judgment, which is something like, oh, always such and such things happen to me, or some metacognition about such a thing. The research points out that alone through the processing of metacognition without working through the history of our whole stuff has a very good, better transformative effect than working through the whole thing. And what the research is showing is that just by working with those metacognitions, you can have a very useful therapeutic effect, and you don't have to work through the entire history of the metacognition. It means here pure consciousness, the ability to see something. So it has a lot more to do with mindfulness than the perplexed processing of intellectual kind of some kind of experience.

[21:10]

Do you mean more metacompetence maybe? They would be competitive capacity. So he says, I understand metacognition capacity differently. The way I understand it is that it has something to do with, it's a level of seeing something, a level of being able to be aware of something, and it does not necessarily have to be those twisted cognition or elaborated statements. Okay. Okay. And he also said it's maybe more linked, the way that he understands it, more linked with a certain kind of mindfulness. To be aware of the mind in the midst of minding. Okay. Someone else? I myself am trying to look at my work and my life more deeply with regard to two different aspects One is the Buddhist assumption that there is no outside

[22:25]

And the second is Doreen's statement, to carry yourself into the world, to understand the world, to see the world, and the world to come forward, so that you can realize yourself. That's it. And the second Stogen statement, to convey the Self to the world is delusion, but to let the world, or you say the myriad things, come forward to illuminate the Self or to actualize the Self is enlightenment. And to practice with those two aspects, to feel the difference in experiencing, that's stark. It's a strong difference. And one of the most interesting aspects of this experience is that in the second version there is not only no fear, but also no anxiety. And the important aspect is that in the second version, not only that there is no fear in experience, but that there can't be any fear.

[24:00]

It is as if the world appears as self or the other way around. On the other hand, if I were to explain this to my clients, I would be a trap again. On the other hand, when I feel like I ought to explain this to my clients, then I'm trapped. Because then I'm putting the self forward. So by this I found that there's a third perspective. And that is as though the self and the world are... They are working together like... What is this called here? Two hands. No, no, in the watches, old watches. Cogs. Yes, cogwheel, like cogwheel.

[25:07]

And that depends on the time synchronization of these two. And there's one tangential point where it touches. It's a tiny point, but for me it's the entire universe. I'm with you. Okay. Lena? Okay. Anyone else? Someone else. No one else. All one else. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Yesterday we spoke about how to have the possibility of living in here and now in a Buddhist way and how difficult that is, the challenges.

[26:41]

In my private life it is difficult enough, but for me it is more practical than in my professional life. In my personal life it's already difficult enough but I find it a lot more practicable than in my professional life because in my professional life I'm confronted with enough things. That means that because of my job, I think about which company I want to work for. What that begins with is that in the context of my professions I then ask myself what kind of companies, organizations do I want to work And I need to pay attention that if I live that with a feeling that there's consequentially, that I'm not catapulting myself out of society entirely.

[28:10]

And that can really be a problem sometimes. And that's where I'm missing a little bit, but also for my private life. So if I say that I don't have the instructions on how to do it, is it not expressed correctly? I'm missing the words to express it correctly. Or is the nepotism sometimes not practical enough for me? I don't know how to put it. I don't know exactly something's lacking for me and I don't know exactly how to describe what I would need or what's lacking and to say that the instructions of how to do it that that's missing somehow it's not quite right also something like Buddhism is not

[29:17]

Practical enough is also not quite right, but something like that works. You can make it more practical. I have confidence. Yes, oh, Dana. I have a thought about that. Zen and yoga are a decision for life, the way it is. And you just have to keep re-deciding, the newer the newer. By the way, when we talked yesterday or in Hanover about yoga, the book I referred to was by a man named Singleton. and it's called The Yoga Body, and it really

[30:21]

describes the history of yoga as being sort of put down by Hinduism first as sort of creepy, and then the British and the Germans with their whole athleticism between the wars and so forth. And in the 19th century, there was the whole athletic movement throughout Europe. And that combined with the interesting yoga postures like Vivekananda, never spoke about asanas. Asanas, I mean, asanas. Asanas and yoga postures came in sort of through Europe, back into India, and then India began to acknowledge them too. But for a long time, India didn't mention in their yoga treatises asanas. So it has a lot to do with the West, how yoga is a national... practice, international practice now, and that's interesting because it follows a similar path in some ways to Buddhism. You can translate yourself.

[31:30]

I was speaking to her English in a single tongue. I'm sorry. That's okay. You want me to try? I don't understand some of it. You can just give a short synopsis. Okay. Body of Yoga. It's about how in Hinduism in India yoga was first made pretty creepy, that it wasn't seen. And how then through England and also Germany, where there is such an upgrade of the athletic, how that was attacked there. And how the usefulness of the yoga attitudes, the asanas, was introduced again in India through this German and English interest. But it sounds like he did okay.

[32:40]

I did some of it. Okay. Okay. I looked at a book the other day about the discrepancy of professional life and healthy life. And then I remembered the book by Glassman, Roshi, How to Cook Your Life. And it's very nicely structured into how to take care of one another and how communities can be structured and so forth in order to make professional life healthier.

[34:01]

And more human. I hope so. I've known two... I've known, I don't know why I'm mentioning this, maybe I shouldn't mention it, but I've known two psychologists who were murdered by their clients. I suddenly thought, somebody, if you're operating a drone, right, you might want them to go crazy because you want them to stop operating their drone. But then if they get crazy, they might send the drone to you. I had this image. Let's get my psychologist. I shouldn't have said that. Leave it to me. Even as a mild-mannered Buddhist teacher, I've had starts on my mind.

[35:26]

When you really consequentially interact with people, it's often somewhat dangerous. Akita? You had your hand up, really. I mean, you can change your mind. I am... tuned out, tuned out for a little while. But something in me is circulating around what you spoke about yesterday, the appearances. And what you demonstrated in getting up is that a particular way of standing or a gesture is impaired.

[36:45]

And I've never looked at it consciously that way. Yeah. And the position is exactly right. And I know that when in Zen, when you assume a posture, like sitting posture, or like doing Kung Fu or Shaolin, you assume the posture and you know that the posture is exactly right. That's interesting. Then suddenly something happens, well, I'm talking about myself, that I don't understand, but from this Then what happens to me is a feeling of I don't understand, but from this position something arises that I don't know how to say it.

[38:00]

I express it as it comes from behind. Maybe it's the moment when the position becomes conscious. And I think you spoke about, I'm not sure if I understood correctly, but that also the word is a kind of appearance. You spoke, you said that Gerald, others, all of us are appearance. The consciousness of the appearance, the current consciousness of the appearance activates this binding field.

[39:21]

And what I'm wondering is whether to be conscious of the appearance, the consciousness of the appearance, whether that activates this conjoining field. I think it's a craft. And what you've described could be the craft of noticing appearance and how the appearance and being conscious of the appearance affects others and affects yourself. And like any craft, you can't say exactly how to do it if you're making a pot to your hands. How loose do you hold your hands on the pot? It's just turning. So you have to sort of find it out. But the kind of approach you're taking is a way of finding out what works and what doesn't work.

[40:32]

And one of the moments when my life changed was when Charlotte Selver, who came out of the body movement between the wars in Berlin, between the First World and Second World War in Berlin, and Elsa Gindler, And probably, it could be very likely, that Elsa Gindler and Charlotte Selber knew Hugo Küppelhaus, because he was part of that movement between the wars, too.

[41:39]

But when I first met Charlotte, which was about the same time as I started practicing with Sir Kiyoshi, She said in this little group I joined with Alan Watts, she didn't say, let's all stand up now. She said, come up to standing. And that statement changed my life. Because I have never since stood up. I always come up through a series of movements to standing. And so I would say it's bodily noticed, but it's not necessarily consciously noticed.

[42:45]

It's bodily experienced. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's just a sort of part of the mosaic of what you brought up, I think. Okay. Anyone else? Till? Oh, shucks. Thank you for being here, though. Here. There and here. Yuan Wu said one of the quotes I like to keep exploring. One of the quotes I like to keep exploring is Yuan Wu who said locate yourself without any before and after.

[43:59]

Locate yourself without any And I would add, and without here and there. And realize enlightenment right where you stand. Okay, I think we can have a break. I mean, a lunch break. I'll do it after lunch. if it's all right with you. And I also thought maybe after lunch, I mean, I really want to continue our discussion, because that makes fun for me. But maybe I could speak about the sense of a continuum, which I talked a little bit about in Hanover. and what are the possibilities of a continuum in addition to a self-referencing continuum would that be okay with you?

[45:13]

oh dear Your people are all too nice. I get so attached and I just want to stay here. I talked to Angela and Norbert about moving in.

[45:47]

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