I have in the past attempted to define from a Zen point of view soul, spirit, self, etc. I don't find it very useful to do so. I mean, useful to me maybe, but I don't think it helps anyone practice particularly. I have a good friend who's been quite an inspiration to me. Ich habe einen sehr guten Freund, der eine ziemlich große Inspiration für mich gewesen ist.

[01:02]

His name is Houston Smith. Der heißt Houston Smith. I just wrote him a long letter a couple of days ago. Und ich habe ihm vor ein paar Tagen einen sehr langen Brief geschrieben. Because he's on the board of the Dharma Sangha in the United States. Und er ist ein Vorstandsmitglied von dem Dharma Sangha in USA. But I don't know how old he is, but he's... Maybe 90 or more. He's pretty old. Then he's getting kind of weak. So anyway, I wrote him a letter. And he sent me two of his last two books recently. of why religion matters and cleansing the doors of perception. He's generally thought to have written the best book on world religions in English.

[02:03]

I've known him since the 60s, and he has a wonderful face. There's a poem of E.E. Cummings that begins, Somewhere I've never traveled, Gladly beyond any experience. and there is a poem by E.E. Cummings that says, I'm happy to have traveled nowhere, where no one has made any experience. Can you repeat it? Somewhere I've never traveled, gladly, beyond any experience, And when I first met him, I had the feeling his face had been places that I'd never been and I didn't know anybody else had been.

[03:25]

And he's the son of Protestant missionaries. He grew up in China. And he's... Yeah, and he practiced Zen quite regularly for... ten years and in monasteries in Japan. But he's made an effort of practicing in a monastic type sense many religions. I don't know why I'm telling you all this. I'm telling you anyway. Sorry. Anyway, he's... He says he practiced ten years of Zen not to much effect, he said.

[04:45]

Though he says I still meditate every day. And in this book he sent me, he wrote in the front something like, Dick, my last song, or something like that. And this other book, Cleansing the Door of Perception, he makes a courageous case for psychedelics as genuine religious experience. And to explore that possibility, I organized something called the LSD Conference in 1960. five maybe, in California.

[05:55]

And he was one of the main participants along with Leary and Alpert and so forth. And he was one of the main participants, together with Leary and Alpert and so on. And his talk at the conference was quite sobering because he spoke about somebody had come to his house saying he'd gotten LSD and was inspired by Houston's having taken LSD or something. And so, yeah, and then the guy left. Okay. And next thing Houston knew, a few days later, he got a call from the police in Niagara Falls. And the police said this guy chained to a hotel bedpost and they'd found Houston's phone number in his pocket.

[07:05]

But he still wrote this book, despite negative aspects in his experience, too. He wrote this book supporting psychedelic experiences as religious experiences, as they could be. And in this book he talks about the fact he's going to die soon. And he says that pretty soon Houston will shed this body.

[08:16]

And as long as I enjoy the experience of Houston watching the sunset, I'll be Houston enjoying the sunset. But after a while, there will be nobody on earth who even remembers Houston. And I'll start forgetting myself, too. And I'll turn and enjoy the sunset without being Houston any more. Und dann werde ich mich wenden und den Sonnenuntergang genießen, ohne dass ich Houston mehr bin. Here's this extremely intelligent person who I know very well and have been inspired by. Und hier ist dieser unheimlich intelligente Mann, den ich sehr gut kenne und von dem ich sehr inspiriert wurde.

[09:18]

Who's practiced all the major religions seriously. Und der wirklich alle Hauptreligionen sehr ernsthaft studiert hat. And he writes this, and I don't know how he knows this. And I don't expect this to happen to me. I also don't know. But Houston speaks about spirit and spiritual a lot. And he uses it in a hierarchical sense. That there's this ordinary world. And when you see through this ordinary world into a more transparent, unified world, that would be spiritual. And when he sheds his body, I think he would call that spiritual.

[10:20]

But I think the fundamental direction of Buddhism is Zen is quite different. that the world is not hierarchical. It's hierarchical in the sense that there may be relationships between forms that have a hierarchy. But the effort in practice is to see the world at each moment with each thing equal to each other thing. Sorry, the what of the practice? The fruit of practice is to see the world where there's no hierarchical relationships, everything is equally, everything all at once and separate.

[11:34]

There are no hierarchical relationships. Everything is equal and everything is at the same time, at the same moment. Yeah, something... And so I would only, I myself, only use spiritual to mean, for instance, I suppose around here the folks might say, well, most of these people are farmers, but there's a spiritual center over there. But I might agree with James Joyce, who says he wanted to transform the bread of ordinary life into the mystery of the mass. I could understand that in a non-hierarchical sense to mean something like spiritual. Okay. It doesn't answer any questions.

[13:01]

And I don't use the word spiritual myself. In Zen we use the word ordinary in the context where others would use spiritual. But if you've been brought up in a Christian context which has been a real experience for you, You have to, I think you make sense to find some way to reach into and include this experience in your meditation practice. Okay. And though I don't agree with Houston's formulations, I have been inspired by him as a spiritual person.

[14:23]

And I like what Thomas Merton said at one point. Do you know who that is? He wrote the... He was the most famous Catholic monastic in the United States. Yeah, and he said, because he got very interested in Zen, the latter half of his life. He said, there's something about Catholic monasticism and Zen meditation practice. which produces a similar kind of person.

[15:27]

And in my own experience, I'd say that seems to be true. Now, We could take a break or maybe I could introduce something. Yes. Phenomena. [...] That's how I speak German.

[16:39]

I mean the world outside of ourselves as we experience it. And not what is behind the rock, what makes me seem to... I see the pillar, but there is something. What's different from the pillar? There is? Really? What is different than the pillar? Wait, we need some kind of... I can't wrap it up. Just when you speak now. All right, I'm sorry. So what do you mean by something behind the pillar? I don't know myself. I only know that I can see the post, the pillar.

[17:40]

So the pillar is a phenomena. And a thing is that which is behind the appearance of a pillar. So I'm asking if this is a... You mean like Plato's ideal form? That there's a pure pillar somewhere and this is an imperfect replica of the ideal pillar? Mm-hmm. Well, that really is a kind of theology.

[19:00]

There's a kind of sense of God in such a way of thinking. That there's some ideal world outside this world in which this is a kind of projection. In this image, there is a function of the pillar which has a certain function in this construction. So if you see the form, you only see the outside, the shape of it. But you don't see the function of the thing. In Serpa there is something more than the form. They don't translate even though it's not... So there's more function contained in a pillar than you at first glance would think it has.

[20:15]

Well, as a person who studied architecture, I see the function of the pillar. Let me just use this, what you said about, if I use Plato's thing, is that From the Buddhist point of view, the pillar is perfect. The imperfect, whatever you see is perfect. It is what it is. The imperfect replica is your perception of it. So Zen practice, Buddhist practice, is to transform that perception of it. Okay. I won't introduce something right now.

[21:27]

I want to talk about that next koan of following the fragrant grasses. Let's sit for a moment. What?

[24:27]

I'd like you to call off your names, please. Okay, I'd like to speak about Zen mind. In the context of this koan. Changsha, what? Roaming in the mountains. And when he returned at the temple gate, the head monk happened to be there. And the head monk said, where have you been? Where do you think?

[26:25]

I've been roaming in the mountains. And where did you go? I went following the fragrant grasses. Ich bin gegangen, den duftenden Gräsern folgend. And I returned, pursuing the falling flowers. Und ich bin zurückgekehrt, den fallenden Blumen folgend. A little bit of zen schmaltz. Ein bisschen zen hitsch. But the monk asked for it, you know. And so the monk is kind of, oh, so much like springtime.

[27:29]

Oh, no, he says, not even as cool as the autumn dew dripping on the lotus. I think I'll let you give the lectures and I'll just sit here and pretend to say something. It would be warm air without sound. Oh, okay. So what do we have here? Do we have Zen mind or what do we mean by Zen mind? Haben wir seinen Geist oder was verstehen wir denn unter seinem Geist? Actually, what do you recognize? Do any of you recognize the mind of following the fragrant grasses? Erkennt irgendeiner von euch den Geist, der den duftenden Gräsern folgt? We're talking about the five skandhas.

[28:30]

Wir sprechen hier über die fünf skandhas. This is the percept-only mind. Das ist der... Now most of you know the five skandhas. And we chant it every morning. Form, feelings, perceptions, associations, associative mind and consciousness. It's the most basic and ancient traditional Zen or Buddhist division of the mind into experienceable Units, territory, realms. So I guess that Changsha, this guy, monks being nice to him, you know, being friendly.

[29:33]

But I suspect that Changsha just felt pressed a little bit, so he just said what he did. Yeah, so he has, he's went for a walk. And pursuing the fragrant grasses or grasses generally means in Zen practice means to know from the immediate context. bedeutet aus dem unmittelbaren Kontext heraus wissen. When Kuei Shan recommended that Dung Shan go and meet Yun Yan... As Kuei Shan... These are real guys to me, you know.

[31:09]

Don't laugh. Kweishan recommended Dung Shan to see who? Yun Yan. Yeah, Yun Yan is the one who swept and wasn't busy and all that. And he was Dung Shan's teacher. We chant these guys every morning. Okay. He said, follow the grasses and the way the wind blows. And you will find the treasure of Jungian's teaching. It means something like love. Don't just do it mentally. Let the situation lead you to your teacher.

[32:12]

And trust the treasure of the teacher that the context of your life has led you to. So there must have been for Changsha this feeling also when he said this, I followed the fragrant grasses. And the commentary says only a person who's cut off the ten directions could be like this. So we can ask again, what is the mind that cuts off the ten directions?

[33:26]

And since all of you may not understand the idea of the ten directions, It's two more directions, you know, north, northeast, east, etc. So that's eight directions. And ten make, two more make up and down. And the difference in concept is the directions point at you. They're not out there toward the west. So the experience that's implied in the idea of the ten directions,

[34:28]

It's not that that way is far away. Well, it's not true, of course. But rather the emphasis is whatever that is also comes here and is included here. So, and heavens and heaven and earth, heaven and earth means everything, these two directions. So everything comes here. Here is always the center. Each thing is the center. So to cut off the ten directions. It means not even a sense of here. Walking without a reference point is a good way to get lost. And without self-referencing.

[36:02]

Now, I don't know if this makes sense to you. You can feel the bliss of percept-only mind. in which you feel engaged, engaged, inseparable, inseparable from, a transparent part of the immediate situation. Maybe Marie-Louise's ultralight mind brought to earth. We didn't speak about ultralight mind last night, though. No. Do you want to tell your story?

[37:04]

You don't have to tell it in English this time because Anton and I know. And when I was finally able to fly without a teacher, my first hour was up there. And it was shortly before sunset. You fly according to the flight rules and then the dusk rises a bit and everything gets such a beautiful color. And I thought, this is so good, it's so beautiful, it's so fantastic. Where are all the problems that I usually have when I'm down there? Shall I say what the way-seeking mind is? You have to kind of connect it to... I do.

[38:33]

What that mind is. I do? Okay. Thank you. Now you just tell your story. I'll tell the rest. So did you say anything about way-seeking mind? No. No, okay. I have to have something to say. So I did say that way-seeking mind would be to say, why isn't this mind possible all the time on Earth when, in our usual context, So what I'm saying is Changsha roaming in the mountains by knowing being able to

[39:34]

establish mind in percept only, without self-referencing, has something like this ultra-light mind that Marie-Louise, we can use her image. So, and our mind, as I said this morning, is shaped by a, what should I say, a contextual circularity. By an infolding, unfolding circularity. Eine einfaltende und sich ausfaltende Kreishaftigkeit.

[41:08]

Which shapes the mind in the context in which you live. Die den Geist formt und den Kontext in dem man lebt. Is this where you could add something, Anton, about neurology? Könntest du, Anton, hier etwas über Neurologie hinzufügen? Well, what I discussed with you. I was reminded by this self-concept, this continuous self-concept that we discussed of the way the brain is anatomically organized. So, this self-definition, or what did he say? Continuous kind of self-concept. This uninterrupted self-concept that we have developed has reminded me of the way the brain is structured. basically that 90% of the fibers in the brain are association fibers.

[42:14]

And the rest, the other 10% are just kind of direct experiential. So, like, the neurons involved in the optic system. Just make up the 10%. Yeah, okay. The other day, Sophia handed us a cup And she said, take it by the railing. Phil, she knew what a railing was.

[43:16]

We told her, hold the railing when you go down the stairs. So she had a physical understanding of railing that arose through her senses. So the handle of the cup became a railing. So my sense is that we are shaping the... actually shaping our, as I've said now in various ways, shaping our... mental capacities, mind capacities, continuously in the context in which we live. And I haven't studied neurology the way Anton has.

[44:19]

But my feeling is something like this 90% is formed by this infolding, unfolding circularity. But this associative mind, the fourth skanda, doesn't have to be self-referencing. So, and the teaching of the five skandhas, there's no self in the five skandhas. So, let me just say... Oh, dear, we're running out of time. Okay. When you sit in zazen? You come into the room, you're...

[45:19]

More or less conscious, let's hope. But you can hear the Han in the background. And your mind is kind of settling. And when you first start sitting, maybe there's lots of thoughts up here. Those lots of thoughts are associative mind. This is the fourth skanda. This experiential way of looking at the mind that probably discovered through meditation. And there's less and less association.

[46:33]

You haven't, have not invited your thoughts to tea. And you begin to have percept-only mind. And the more you have really only percept, only mind, there's a kind of joy, gratefulness, bliss associated with each percept. It's kind of intoxicating. The bird seems to be singing inside you. And it is, actually. Where else are you hearing it?

[47:33]

You feel transparent. Kind of an invisible participant in the world. So that's percept only mind. If you're going on a walk, why wouldn't you want to take that mind with you? So that's the third skanda. And the second skanda is non-graspable feeling. And again, this is the field of feeling, the field of mind. Like I always say, there's a feeling in this room right now including all the particulars and yet changing every moment.

[48:42]

And then there's the form skanda. And the form skanda, if we want to speak about it experientially, we could call it something like subject-based objectivity. trying to somehow use that phrase to try to somehow get around the philosophical confusion around subjective worlds and objective worlds. Because certainly through Zen practice you come into a mind where you really do feel you're seeing the world objectively. Everything is just as it is where it is with wonderful shiny clarity.

[50:24]

In this mind you tend to see auras around things. Northern lights. So it's a kind of form but something, yeah, form but a kind of real subtle sense of form. And it's the mind in which you see like the nimbus around Christ. And the Buddhas always have this shape, various shapes around the figure. And that's the mind, seen by the mind of pure form or something like that.

[51:33]

You know, something like spiritual. Sitting this way I feel like the mermaid in Copenhagen. But I have not quite the figure for it. But it's still a subject experience.

[52:37]

It's not purely objective, really. It's experienced as pure objectivity. It's experienced as pure objectivity. But it's not objective like studying the atoms with an atom smasher. It's you as a subject experiencing the world objectively. Now, an experienced practitioner learns to establish themselves in these five minds. And an experienced practitioner will establish himself in these five senses or establish himself there. If you're just going for a walk, you don't want to have to be conscious exactly.

[53:51]

Aware, but not conscious. You don't want to be thinking about the temple finances and things like that. You have to understand. Next time you go on a walk. And you don't want a lot of associations, self-referencing. But it's wonderful to be engaged in this, the context of this world which has actually produced our mind. 90% of it. So he's walking along like that, blissed out, you know. Following the fragrant grasses.

[55:09]

And grasses also, because there's so many kinds of grasses, the 10,000 grasses means a myriad things. To be completely immersed in myriad things. And there are so many different grasses that the grasses stand for the 10,000 things and that means completely immersed in the myriads of things. There are so many grasses and they are wonderful to chew, smell, etc. And then he's returning, following or pursuing something, either one, the falling flowers. So he seems to have come back, or he is teaching this monk with the mind that practices the impermanence of everything.

[56:11]

To let something appear and let it go. And in English, the word, the phenomenal world, Yeah, if it were used in Time magazine or something like that. Would just mean the physical world. But it actually means, etymology means, that which appears. Phenomenon in English is the singular. It means that which appears to the senses or can be known by the senses. And that's perfectly compatible with Buddhist teaching.

[57:36]

Phenomena is the plural. So the world that we can know through the senses, And Buddhism would include, Zen would include, that one can also sense or feel in between the senses. Because our five senses, or six if we include mind, are only six pieces of an infinite pie. So the mystery of what's not included in the senses is also there. So now a basic practice of Zen and Buddhism, freeing oneself from the sense of permanence, is to let each thing appear, be held for a moment or completed,

[58:59]

and let go. And that experience of looking and letting go, looking and letting go is also, we can say, the practice of emptiness. So he came back pursuing the falling flowers. Meaning he was finding the emptiness, the disappearance of everything. Things exist from their moment. And this is also a refreshing, freeing feeling.

[60:19]

Yeah, and you know, a typical way a person who's practiced a lot would take any walk. A typical way a person who's practiced would take any walk. So the monk engages him in a conversation. So the monk ideally could feel the mind of his teacher. But he doesn't, so Changsha... trips in the weeds and over-explains. And the monk still doesn't get it and just thinks it's a kind of poetry and says, oh, it's so much like springtime.

[61:27]

I didn't do that. anyway and he says yeah it's cold autumn dew on a lotus leaf and he means the mind of completely extinguished or wide mind of the Buddha. And he thought So Shredo at this point, because the monk doesn't know what to say, Shredo says simply, thank you.

[62:37]

So we've been talking about the body. And now the mind. Yeah. And what time is dinner supposed to be, supper supposed to be? It's 8.30. 8.30? 6.45. 6.45, okay. And kids till 6. Kids till 6. No, no, no. 6. No, 6.45. 6.45. Good. It's scheduled 6.45. Oh, good. That's great. Thank you very much. Okay, so what I'd like us to do now... Until 6.45, or somewhere close to that, I'd like us to break up into small groups.

[63:41]

What's the process I'll put in charge of Beate and Nico? So I don't know how many. There's 60-some people here, something like that. 65 people. Divided by ten is 6.5. By eight is eight. So maybe eight groups or six or seven groups, I don't know, something like that. And I'd like you to talk about in your own language. I think maybe it would be useful. to speak to you.

[64:47]

Let's just keep it simple. In zazen or in meditation, or at any time, have a feeling that it's not just a different bodily feeling, it's a different body. Now please hold in mind that in Buddhism a body is not the corpse. A body is not your fingerprint. Your fingerprints are pretty continuous. They remain usually the same during Zazen. But body means that which makes the stuff, the physical stuff, alive. Now, is that aliveness of the body different enough in some circumstances that it's almost like a different body?

[66:08]

It might feel differently about the same situation Or it might think differently about a similar situation, the same situation in Zazen or not in Zazen, say. And also you can ask, is there a different mind in zazen than when you're not doing zazen? Or any circumstances, not additionally, just zazen. So please take that as the territory for your discussion.

[67:19]

And I'll continue to sit here gazing out over the Copenhagen harbor. Please. I'm sitting here gazing out of the Copenhagen house. And maybe Anton and Paul, there might be a small English-speaking group, unless you want to do something else. Can you turn the light behind you?

[68:24]

Good, that's good. How are each of you this morning? Yeah, good morning and of course I want to hear your reports from your groups.

[69:57]

Your reports always comfort and surprise me. Comfort and surprise me. But first, maybe I should give you a report of my own. First of all, I want to apologize for not joining you for zazen this morning and yesterday. But I find that after this operation I need much more sleep than I've ever needed in my life. So while you're listening to the Hahn, I'm sleeping away.

[70:59]

I seem to be quite good at sleeping through the Hahn. But I also have to get up every hour, basically, to go to the toilet because of my shrunken bladder. And my dear warrior wife who has gone through the whole of this with me is not willing to sleep with a person who gets up every hour. So the baby has the comfort of her presence. You know, I wish I'd found out about this or found out how serious it was a year ago.

[72:20]

I would have been in better shape than now. But I seem to have caught it just in the, as we say, the nick of time. And because I don't have health insurance in Germany, and I, being over 65, I have Medicare in the United States. I planned, once I found out what was going on, I would return to the United States and do the medical treatment or the operation that everyone advised.

[73:21]

And since my daughter told me, you remember, to get my feet on the ground, Dad, I asked the advice of a number of medical doctors who are part of the Dharma Sangha. And they decided to... that I ought to have a really good surgeon. Since this is major surgery. And I don't know much about these things, obviously, but it seems that it's better to have a surgeon who does this 120 or 150 times a year than somebody who does it 20 or 30 times a year. So, without my really knowing it, some research was made and three doctors were recommended to me.

[74:38]

One in Berlin, one in Karlsruhe and one in Freiburg. Of course, having taken for granted my quite healthy body for all these years, The first kind of work I had to do was to change my body image. And that turned out to be, you know, just a day or two. Okay, this is what it's like. So, okay. And that was in the first two days it took until I could say, okay, that's what it is now.

[75:45]

And then it was okay again. And given my lifetime of distance from the medical world and hospitals, I accepted advice very rapidly. Why, I don't know. So the... both the doctor, the first surgeon I talked to, and Forrest Hatt, I mean Walshut. said, I should do the operation as soon as possible. And if I returned to the United States, it would be at least a month or two before I found hospitals and doctors, etc. So, to my surprise, this group of doctors and others in the Dharma Sangha

[76:46]

agreed to somehow cover the costs, the bills. And I was a little embarrassed about this because, you know, it can't be a Dharma Sangha project because I'm not a Dharma Sangha project. Well, it would be illegal unless I taught Zen to the hospital. To a small extent I did. I had nurses visiting me in the middle of the night to discuss things. But I don't think the German tax people would accept that as an excuse for such a large amount of deductions. So unfortunately anyone who contributed to these expenses can't deduct it from their taxes, I'm sorry.

[78:11]

But I'm very touched by this extraordinary generosity to allow me to do the operation as soon as possible here. And Marie-Louise and Sophia and Beata and my daughter, my 24-year-old daughter, who wanted to get my feet on the ground. Elizabeth, she said, I want to be with you during the operation. So she flew here, and Marie-Louise and Sophia and Elizabeth had a little holiday apartment next to the hospital. And Beate found another little, much smaller one, fairly near the hospital.

[79:33]

Worrying about the finances of the dharmasanghas. So Sophia was taken care of and I always had somebody most of the time with me who could, if someone approached with a needle speaking German, who could explain to me what was going on. Marie-Louise, what are they about to squirt into me? Every day it was kind of loose. Again, I'd never taken any medicine. This was quite an adventure. And now I've had homeopathic doctors, anthroposophical doctors, herbalists, healers.

[80:50]

A whole bunch of people have sent me things. I don't know where to start. LAUGHTER So now she sent me everything. I have homeopathic doctors, anthroposophic doctors, herbalists, healers. And she sends me all these things. I don't even know where to start with. Yeah, so somehow I'll find my way through the forest of medicines. And David Beck was, most of you know, who's been a doctor in Basel. Was part of this initial group that advised me. And he's the ENO right now at Creston, head of the practice. But he was able to postpone his flight a week and he came to the hospital too.

[81:56]

I don't know why they gave me such a leeway with this strange American, you know, etc. You know, there have been huge peace marches, I don't know if you know, a million in Rome. I think about half a million in Berlin. And in England, estimates from 750,000 to 2 million. And there, people carry placards, drop bush, not bombs. So I had to clarify with the doctors and nurses that I'm on their side.

[83:17]

Everyone simply went out of their way to help me. It was unbelievable. So when David showed up, and I don't know if they expected him to translate what I might mumble during the coma of anesthesia. But they invited him right away to come into the operation. So he put on a little green outfit and a mask and et cetera. I didn't know who it was, but yeah, I... So he was present at both operations. And afterwards he said, you don't have to come with a patient. You can come join any operation you like. And the surgeon said to me, You'll see me tomorrow morning in the operation.

[84:46]

And I knew with the spinal and other things they were going to do to me, I wouldn't see him. So I said to him, well, I think I won't see you, but you'll see me. And you'll see me as I will never and perhaps hope to never see myself. The first operation was an endoscopic operation. They make little holes in you with cameras and television screens. I said, I should get the film. We could view it later. And to make room they have to fill your carbon dioxide or something. So I guess I looked pregnant.

[85:50]

But anyway, I didn't view it so. And as I said, the prognosis is very good. My bones are clear, my lymph nodes, etc. But given the virulence of the kind of cancer I had, I just found out for sure that I should do for seven weeks radiation. Starting Monday after this seminar. So it means I won't be able to return to the practice period while it's going on. But it's good for Dan to have the experience of doing it by himself.

[87:05]

I have to cancel a couple of Boulder seminars and other things. But it's also very... Nice to be here. I'm quite well taken care of as long as I can fumble my way through the day. Nico took on the not entirely pleasant task of trying to put the money together. And when I told the surgeon in Freiburg that there was a group of doctors who were advising me, he said, will they all call at once? He said, will they all call at once? So we appointed Gerhard to be our spokesperson.

[88:32]

So the doctor sent him, the surgeon, Professor Dr. Boyle sent him the pathology, the histology and so forth. And they can discuss it medically in German and then Gerhard explains it to Marie-Louise, and Marie-Louise explains it to me, and I say, yes. But Gerhard's English is very good, so he also explains it directly to me. So I'll be around some more weeks. Yeah, and that seems to be that's all right with everyone. Since I plan to live as long as possible. Yeah, it's for Sophia and for practicing together.

[89:46]

And Marie-Louise and so forth. I'm going to try to do whatever is best to restore my health. Anyway, I just wanted to share with you what's happened in the situation. So, would someone give me a report? It's a hard act to follow, I know. Yes. I love you. First we spoke about this phrase, to have another different body. For most of us it was very difficult to imagine what this is and so we try to find out.

[91:17]

Does it mean to have a different view? Is it a different experience? Is it simultaneously a different body and simultaneously not a different body? These are all relevant questions For me the discussion was most vivid, lively and nourishing that there's seemingly to be a movement of the body. It's like a natural movement towards the innate or something in you residing happiness.

[92:24]

Oh. This is good. So, just practically speaking, if I am in sasin and I just sit or I tend to kind of create a certain feeling, If I consciously try it with exertion... No, you're speaking about your own experience or the group's, both? It's my own.

[93:27]

Then I kind of distance myself off this, if I do that in sasen. But when I get out of this magical kick, how do I manage to leave it to myself? So when I find this magical trick, how I can let it be on its own and its own finds the way to that place? Yeah. It's a kind of naturalness which is not the usual idea.

[94:06]

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