Welcome, everybody. We're so happy to see you all. And I want to, I think everybody knows who we are, but I want to just say that Karen Dakotas is here from Montana, and she will be presenting on the third class date. The second, sorry. And Lori Sanaki is here and she'll be presenting on the third night. And we've met two or three times. We decided the fourth night we're kind of leaving open to see what happens along the way. So these classes are meant to move from our early women ancestors to the Chinese, to the Japanese. And we encourage you to begin to read or to continue to read or to reread about the women ancestors if you have time.

[01:10]

You can go to the BCC website where this class was announced. Laurie attached a little pamphlet that was made by some BCC folks a number of years ago. And it's basically a paragraph about each of the women's ancestors whose names we chant. And then if your interest is sparked by one in particular, you may want to jump in and find more to read about that particular woman ancestor or We also put up a short list of books that we've enjoyed that you could dive into. It's by no means a conclusive list. If you have suggestions of books that you've read or want to read, please send them to any of us and we'll compile a list that we'll share at the end. I don't think the classes are meant to necessarily be academic in nature.

[02:18]

Instead, what we hope to do is enter the women's stories and see how they mix with our own stories of practice. And I was thinking it might be easy to really study women ancestors by holding them at bay, far from the lives that we're living. and even to hold them up as examples, which they are, but letting them remain in the past. And so I've been asking myself, what does it mean to come from a long line of women practitioners, as well as men practitioners? Women have been practicing for centuries, but their stories haven't been as well known, and they're emerging more and more. and how lucky we are that we're able to read those stories and share those stories with each other. How do we want to use them?

[03:22]

I think the stories may operate in each of us in different ways. They certainly give us information about the thoughts and the hearts and the minds of Buddha's followers, and they can be inspirations. for us to continue our own practice. Sometimes they can surprise us, they can shock us out of our own habits of body and mind. And I believe actually that the women ancestors are right here, like right inside of us, deep in our own bones. and blood and flesh and body mind. And I don't mean that in a kind of abstract way or even in a kind of woo-woo way. Just like the image that we chose for this class, the woman with many arms extended out and around and about in all directions.

[04:33]

I believe that the women ancestors reached right deep inside us over centuries from many times and from many directions and from many places in the world. So I was thinking we could just take a moment and ask us all to just close our eyes and in whatever form, whatever way that you might imagine, either through an image or through words, just to let whatever image or words come up for you. And when we breathe in, we breathe in that image or words of the women ancestors. And when we breathe out, we breathe out gratitude for their place in our lives here and especially tonight and in these weeks as we study together.

[05:36]

So let's just do that. Just do that three times. Breathe in and breathe out. And then when you're ready, open your eyes and I will read you a story. Thank you. So the woman I've chosen to read about is from the early times.

[06:40]

When the pandemic hit hard in the United States, Pata Chara popped into my head, literally popped into my head almost immediately. And I had read her story several times in the past, as I'm sure many of you have. But I started digging up stories of her on the internet and pouring through books that I knew her story was in and ordering books from the library and ordering books on the internet. And I started diving into books about the women ancestors in general. I just somehow felt that need. But Pata Chara kept coming back to me. And I hope to show you why tonight. Bhattacharya lived in the sixth century BC in the north of India in a city known at that time as Sabati.

[07:43]

It was apparently one of the six largest cities there in that part of India during the Buddha's life. There were about 900,000 people there. Today it's the area known as Uttar Pradesh. It was a prosperous trading center, and it was known for its religious associations. Sabati was close to Jetavana Monastery, which was the main temple where the Buddha gave most of his teachings. So having read several versions of Patachara's story, I've chosen one in particular to read to you, but I added a bit here and there from other versions in places where it just seemed like the right thing to do.

[08:45]

So I want to read it to you now. I'm not going to tell it to you. I'm going to read it to you. I like to be read to, and I hope that you do too. Patachara was the beautiful daughter of a very wealthy merchant of Sabati. When she was 16 years old, her parents put her in a seven-story-high tower on the top floor, surrounded by guards to prevent her from keeping company with any young man. In spite of this precaution, she became involved in a love affair with a servant in her parents' house. When her parents arranged a marriage for her with a young man of equal social standing, she decided to elope with her lover. She escaped from the tower by disguising herself. And the young couple went to live in a village far away from Sabati. The husband farmed and the young wife did all of the menial chores which formerly had been performed by her parents' servants.

[09:53]

When she became pregnant, she begged her husband to take her to her parents' house to give birth there, saying that a father and mother always have a soft spot in their hearts for their child, no matter what had happened. However, her husband refused on the grounds that her parents would surely subject him to torture or imprisonment. When she realized that he would not give in to her pleas, she decided to make her way to her parents by herself. When the husband found her gone and was told by the neighbors of her decision, he followed her and tried to persuade her to return. However, she wouldn't listen to him. Before they could reach Sabati, the birth pain started and soon a baby son was born. Since there was no more reason to go on to her parents' house, they turned back and resumed their family life in the village.

[10:56]

Sometime later, she became pregnant again. And again, she requested her husband to take her home to her parents. Again, he refused. So when he was out, she took matters into her own hands and started off carrying the older child. When her husband returned to see that she had gone, he followed her and pleaded with her to return home with him. but she wouldn't listen. They continued on their way. A fearful storm arose quite out of season with thunder and lightning and incessant rain. Just then, her birth pain started and she asked her husband to find her some shelter. The husband went searching for material for a shelter and set about to chop down some saplings. A poisonous cobra snake bit him at that moment and he fell dead instantly. Bhattacharya waited for him in vain.

[12:00]

And after having suffering birth pains, a second son was born to her. Both children screamed at the top of their lungs because of the buffeting of the storm. So the mother protected them with her own body all night long. In the morning, she placed the newborn baby on her hip, gave a finger to the older child, and set out upon the path her husband had taken, saying to her son, come, dear child, your father has left us. After some steps, she found her husband lying dead, his body rigid. She wailed and lamented and blamed herself for his death. She continued on her journey to her parents' house. But when she came to the river Akiravati, it was swollen waist deep on account of the rain. She was too weak to wade across with both children.

[13:02]

So she left the older child on the near bank and carried the baby across to the other side. Then she returned to take the firstborn, across. When she was midstream, a hawk saw the newborn baby and mistook it for a piece of meat. It came swooping down, and in spite of Patachara's cries and screams, flew off with the baby in its towns. The older boy saw his mother stop in the middle of the river and heard her loud yells. He thought she was calling him, started out after her, Immediately, he was swept off by the strong current. Wailing and lamenting, Patachara went on her way, half crazed by the triple tragedy that had befallen her, losing her husband and both sons within the day.

[14:04]

As she came nearer to Savati, she met a traveler who was coming from the city. She inquired about her family from him. At first, he refused to answer her. When she insisted, he finally had to tell her that her parents' house had collapsed in the storm, killing them both as well as her brother, and that the cremation was just now taking place. When she heard that, her reason left her. Her grief was too much to bear. She tore off her clothes. wandering around in circles for a long time, weeping and wailing, growing thin and filthy and ill, not knowing what she was doing or where she was going. As she made her way into Savati, people pelted her with stones and rubbish and chased her out of the way.

[15:06]

They called her crazy. They continued to torture her, with no one recognizing who she was previously. She grew more aggressive day by day. Whenever any sympathetic person tried to cover her nude body with clothes, she would tear them off and scream. People called her patachara, which meant one who is unaware of the importance and purpose of clothes. she ended up being completely ostracized from the city. At that time, Buddha was staying at Jetavana, one of the most famous monasteries located just outside of Savatthi. It was the place where the Buddha gave the majority of his teachings and discourses. Still wandering, Patachara somehow ended up there.

[16:11]

When he noticed Padachara, the Buddha instructed his disciples not to obstruct her, but to let her enter and come near him. As soon as she was close to the Buddha, he told her, sister, recover your mind. Just like that, she was brought back to clarity. And realizing she was naked, she crouched in shame on the ground. one of the lay followers threw her a cloak, and she wrapped herself in it. Then she prostrated at the feet of the Buddha. When asked her name, she felt awkward, as her actual name was Rupwati, meaning beauty, and her condition was completely opposite this name, so she introduced herself as Bhattacharya, the name given to her by the stone throwers.

[17:13]

Bhattacharya recounted to the Buddha the tragedy that had befallen her. He listened to her openly, calmly. Then he told her that these painful experiences she had gone through were only tiny drops in the ocean of impermanence in which all beings drown if they are attached to what rises and ceases continuously. He told her that all through many existences, this is a cycle. No other being can shelter or protect us. Then he said, there is a path, a way out of pain. It's better to know the truth about the world for a single day than to live a hundred years without it. Patachara. So that's the story.

[18:19]

Considering Patachara's story during our time right now, the manner in which she lost her presence of mind and wandered the streets, confused, not having what it meant to be whole. It makes me think a lot about the growing number of homeless people on our streets. Every week in Berkeley, I see new tents, new faces, new groups of homeless folks on the street. Pata Chara, I think. She was like this, I remind myself. But look what happened to her over a lifetime.

[19:26]

How can I hold the fullness of Pata Chara's life when I meet a homeless person on the street, when I stopped to talk to a homeless person on the street. Losing her presence of mind, wandering in circles, was not the whole of her life. It was not who she was in full. What about those people out on the street? I'm asking myself. A couple of weeks ago, I was down across that pedestrian bridge that crosses from university over the freeway to where you can go to Cesar Chavez Park and the waterfront.

[20:31]

And I saw a man crossing the bridge, going in the opposite direction. He was coming towards Berkeley. I was going towards the water. A homeless man I've seen for years, all over Oakland, all over Berkeley, always walking. I've never seen him do anything but walk. Tall guy, almost no clothes on, dirty, carrying a jug of water, carrying a small satchel of belongings. It really took me by surprise. I thought of Pata Chara. A couple of weeks ago, two of us were offering bag lunches to homeless people in downtown Berkeley. And a middle-aged woman was standing in front of her tent near the post office. I approached her and looked her in the eyes and I asked her if she would like a turkey sandwich lunch.

[21:42]

She smiled and she said, well, can I see how the sandwich is wrapped? And can I look at your hands? And I said, sure. So I opened the bag and showed her what was included in the lunch. And I showed her my hands and I said to her, you know, You don't have to take one, it's okay. And she said, well, your hands look really clean and the sandwich looks wrapped nicely, I'll take one. I thought this was great. Amidst all the difficulty that I can imagine of what it's like to try to live in cleanliness on the street, she had the presence of mind to want to check out my hands. It woke me up. It helped me see her as more than a sum of what appeared to be standing in front of me.

[23:00]

We went along and there was another woman a couple blocks away sitting on a bench with her belongings next to her. And I asked her if she'd like a turkey sandwich lunch. And she said, yes, I would. Thank you very much. And I said to her, how are you doing today? And she said, I've never been better. And I was shocked. But I thought, What do I know? Maybe it was a good day. There was a blue sky. It was quiet. She had food in her lap. We all have good days and bad days. I just met her situation.

[24:08]

I listened, I realized I couldn't change anything, even if I wanted to. But I could just be there in that moment, that one time. In the story of Patachara, it seems to me that the Buddha was able to de-stigmatize mental illness when he met Patachara and give her the gift of kindness. Can we do that too? It's said that his many disciples tried to shoo her away to protect him from her. disciples of Buddha right there practicing with him. I thought, where was their kindness? Where's mine? Sometimes there, sometimes maybe not.

[25:09]

We too are disciples of Buddha. Taking a long look or view of Patachara's life, After she met the Buddha, she practiced diligently. She became a nun. And in particular, she dedicated herself to Sangha. And she felt that for her, an intensive study of the rules was kind of necessary and purifying based on how she had lived. Then it gave her security. and the safety of self-discipline. It said that she learned not to be complacent through well-being or anxious or confused through suffering.

[26:10]

That sounds like the middle way to me. As a result of her experiences, She gained a deep understanding for what it means to be a human or what the human condition is and involves. So she was able to be a great help to her fellow women. She had a huge following of female disciples and students, estimated at some 500. And she was a comfort to those who came to her with their difficulties. It's said that all of those women that came to her had lost a child. She became a chief disciple of the Buddha with the role of taking care of the training of the monastic rules, the Vinaya for female disciples, the Bhikkhuni Sangha.

[27:22]

Some people say that the training of monastics involves a lot of rules. But what comes up in reading about Patachara is this aspect of non-violence, of non-harming. So that in the Vinaya, what's related to motivation and intention is part of like moral conduct. And it's one of the aspects of loving kindness. And this is what Patachara became known for. So in listening to ourselves, in understanding ourselves, we accept ourselves. And then that quality, that feeling of acceptance becomes a quality of loving kindness that moves in and through us from this very being outward.

[28:38]

And that takes a lot of us a long time to practice. So in the midst of Patachara's great suffering and all of that loss, somehow she found her way to Buddha. And I was thinking in the same way, we have all, each one of us, somehow found our way from our assorted backgrounds to this practice and to each other. What good fortune. The Buddha listened to Patachara tell her story of loss and the reason for her madness because she wanted him to comfort her. He listened, and then he told her, with that, I can't help you.

[29:43]

In that direct and careful way, the Buddha gave Patachara the gift of a reminder. Recover your presence of mind. And I think we have that possibility alive in our practice with each other, women and men practicing together, wanting the best for each other, wanting the best for all. Reminding each other, recover your presence of mind. Can we listen closely and encourage each other in time of sorrow? this particular time of the pandemic, given what may come up for any one of us, fear, anxiety, worry, frustration, loss, grief. Can we do that to recover the mind of Buddha? Last week, one of the students in one of the classes that I teach at Contra Costa College came to the online office hours that we offer, and she wanted to talk to me about the class because she had fallen behind.

[31:02]

It was kind of a surprise. She's a wonderful student. She wants to be a nurse. She's very capable, but she had kind of dropped off maybe two or three weeks, I hadn't seen any work from her. So I was happy to see her. So she got online, we were on Zoom. And as soon as she started to talk, she started to cry. And she just cried and cried and cried. And she told me that her whole family back in Honduras has tested positive for the virus. And of course, she feels terrible about that because she's so far away. In her home, Her two adult stepchildren have come back to live with she and her husband. They have a young daughter. They have a couple other people in the family, like six, seven or eight people in the house. Everybody's trying to use the same computers. She said she was just completely stressed out.

[32:03]

She went on and on and on, cried for a long time. And I just listened. She said they were having marriage problems now. And then she just stopped. And I said, you know, Marjorie, I can't help you with your marriage problems, but I can help you with this class. How's that? And we went ahead and talked about how she could catch up, what she could do to recover her mind, basically. And now she's kind of back on course. When the Buddha told Bhattacharya that no one could help her but herself, it could have sounded cold, I suppose.

[33:09]

But it actually helped her. It encouraged a way of considering life that led to a deeper understanding of impermanence. And that gave her strength. He listened and he told her to recover her mind. And that led her to an awakening. And I want to read a kind of famous poem about that awakening to you. It's in this wonderful book, new book, The First Free Women, Poems of the Early Buddhist Nuns. And it's on our little list. It's not too long. Farmers turn up the soil, plant seeds, and wait. All by itself, water pours down from the sky and turns earth into food. After all these years sleeping on the ground, waking before dawn, and begging for every meal, where's my harvest?

[34:14]

Late one evening, I was washing my feet after another long day of sitting and walking. The water poured over my feet and onto the ground. I let my mind go, and it flowed downhill with the water towards my little hut. I went inside, sat on the bed, and lowered the wick of the lamp. All by itself, the flame went out. In seeing the water trickle down the slope, it seems Patachara recognized the whole of existence, each life being longer or shorter. In the rush of

[35:17]

those cravings that we all face. Some lived a short time like her children, some longer like her husband, and some even longer like her parents, but all were part of some constant change, which is really all we can depend on. Somehow when she realized that, it brought an awakening Well, I think we all have moments of awakening that these aren't reserved for special people or people we read about, that we're not any different from Patachara. We have moments when we have realizations. They come to us often at moments when we least expect it. Sandy Boucher wrote a piece for Inquiring Mind some years back and she told the story of Patachara's awakening and she said this, I want to quote her, Patachara's story offers particular inspiration.

[36:28]

Attention to the simplest action can be an opening to liberation. Typically a woman's moment of awakening happens while performing humble duties, cooking the curry, carrying a jug of water, snuffing the lamp. or if she was a prostitute, she might foresee the eventual transformation of her beautiful, firm body into that of a wrinkled, toothless hag. The gist of the awakening usually was an experience of impermanence. The women's poems express a transcendent sense of relief and joy. So, What are our moments of awakening, of realizing impermanence right here in our lives in the middle of a pandemic? I think it might be an encouragement for us to share some of those moments with each other tonight.

[37:30]

And so I'm gonna suggest that we go into breakout rooms to do that. And before we do that, I just thought I would share something that happened to me recently You know, I'm pretty much online a lot. And ever since the pandemic started late, late in the day when school was over, my husband and I get on our bicycles and we ride to Richmond along the Bay Trail. And we ride the exact same route every single day out and back. And yet every single day is completely different out there, completely different. We know all the birds out there now. We know where to find certain birds. We followed certain birds, but they, they move around and their habits take them to different places and the water, the light, everything's different.

[38:34]

And one day, I had this thought, the whole world is doing Zazen and there's something much larger going on. It's way beyond what I can understand or comprehend. And in that just brief moment, I felt really comforted by that. So that's my moment I wanted to share with you. And I think at this point, Lori is going to put you in breakout rooms. And what I'm encouraging you to do is to share a moment of awakening and or share how the story of Patachara reaches into your own life right now as you practice. So

[39:36]

Laurie, do you want to do that? And I think maybe, Karen, what do you think, twos, threes? It looks like Ross has his hand up. Could we wait for questions till we do that? I guess if you don't want to, you just decline, and then the big room will still be, I'll be in the big room. It looks like a couple people have popped off in the prospect of this. Okay, so we're going to put two to a room I think we talked about before. Okay, that's fine. Okay, here we go. OK, or Anne and Marie and Liz, are you here?

[40:54]

I'm going to pass on the breakout room. This is Liz. OK. Do you want to orbit away or end your involvement with the class now? Hi, Joe. Welcome. I got ditched. Someone left me. Bumped out? No, the other person left. The other person left. Maybe it was me because I went into a room and no one was there. What number were you in? I was seven. Oh, I was in six. Why don't you put Joe and I in the same group? Okay. I don't... Let me see if I can... Oh, move to... Move to room six. Let's try that. Did that work? It says you haven't joined. I don't have anything that says join.

[41:54]

Yeah, I got a join button. I'll join. Oh, and now it's just you and I. Did you get a button? No, it's all right. I'll stay with you. Well, he's all alone there then. Oh, he is? Oh, OK. He joined. I don't know how to move you. Why don't you move him into another group? You can do that. It's okay if it's three. I'm going to move him to 11. He went into 11. I see now, this is the first time I've really looked at this whole thing. You know what's bizarre is, Ron and Ross got put in the same room, and Ben and Chris Evans got put in the same room. Oh, isn't that funny? And Blake and John Colts got put in the same room. Oh, isn't that funny? Isn't that amazing? It is amazing. That's all the men. I forgot to tell them how long it will be. That's all right. Should I broadcast a message that says we'll have

[42:59]

seven, eight minutes, or six more minutes or something? Now it's 8.17. We should get them out of there by 8.25, right? Yeah, so that's eight minutes. But maybe I should say seven minutes. Seven. Do seven minutes. Do you think that was too weird? No. Oh, good. But we didn't tell them how long. They didn't know how long each person should take. Oh, yeah. Right. I'm going to say six more minutes. Yeah, that's fine. I didn't want to, I don't know, I should have, I guess I should have let Ross ask his question, but I didn't really want to. I think he, unless he was asking what if you don't want to go into a breakout room. I know, but I didn't want to hear that. That was good. I thought it was, it was really well told. The story was really well told and you fleshed it out really well. Yeah.

[44:00]

I thought it was good. Oh, good. I am so tired. I was getting a little drowsy there because I didn't sleep well last night. This is kind of one of my longest days, but I tried to remember Karen. She was at the women's machine with COVID. So I thought I can do this easily. It's true. Usually I have notes, like for school, I have them in front of me on my table, but I decided to put the notes up on the screen. It's easier. I'm trying to figure out whether to do that with my talk or not, just have them on. I think you should. It's so much easier. So I have two screens, right? I have you on one side and I have notes on the other side. You have a big monitor, like a wide monitor that you can put It's not that long. I mean, just regular signs. You still have room for two things to be going on. Yeah. Right. Hey, I'm going to send you, shoot you an email tomorrow, but let's try to do both walking and talking if we can.

[45:08]

I don't think I can do Thursday, actually. Okay. Let's do Friday. We can still walk if we want. Or and walking maybe we can walk a little ways and then study and walk back or something Sure, so should we do I can't wait. Did we say 1030 or 10 or what time did we say? I can't do it right now my mind. I'll send you a That's fine, I've got this on my computer Can you see what it says no what I Leehan came in, she said, is that to remind you not to say it? And I said, yeah. By the way, I'm going to Gustine tomorrow and Wednesday, but I will be checking email, but I won't be doing anything else. Oh, I'm glad you said that. Well, then you're not going to do the bag lunches. I'll fill in for you.

[46:09]

No, I am. Wednesday night, I'll pick up the food around six to do my prep, and then Thursday, I'll bring it. It's going to work, okay? Yeah. But I won't. It'll be a little on the later side that I pick up the food. That's fine. Is your sister okay? Yeah. I'm just trying to not leave her alone for too long. I know. This is getting awful again, isn't it? It's getting awful. You were there at the board meeting. Dean quoted Mel as saying about his cancer, I have to keep getting used to it. And Dean said, that's kind of like COVID. We just have to keep getting used to it. And that's really true. Yeah. And I'm just, I feel very, I don't feel creative at all about the holidays or Christmas or Alan's birthday. I can't think of anything I know to do or why bother, you know, and then I thought was talking to my sister. I thought maybe we should just sit home and be sad on the holidays and just feel the sadness, you know?

[47:13]

Well, we'll have to do something. I'm gonna come up with some brilliant idea. And how's Alan doing? Is he doing okay? He's doing fine. Yeah, he's doing fine. He's good. He said it was a shock to see the invitation to the mountain seat. It made it seem so real. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to say they have two more minutes. OK. So then when they come back, I was just thinking if anybody wanted to share something for just a couple minutes. Yeah. And then I was just going to make a very short concluding remarks. And then, you want to lead the four vows? Sure. OK. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be hard. We may have to go over a few minutes here. I don't know.

[48:16]

I don't think so. I think it'll be OK, unless everybody wants to talk. Yeah. Once you shut it, how many seconds do they have? You know what, I don't know to tell you the truth. Oh, because on my school and they get an extra minute. So you better. Okay. So should I do it now? I think so. I just told them two minutes. That's all right. They won't know. Okay. They're going to get, what does it say? It should say all breakout rooms will close in 56 seconds. That's almost another whole minute. They give, they give, they're given a minute. Yeah. Right. Okay. Oh, there's a chat. Who's that? Here comes Patrice. Hi, Patrice. Hi, Patrice. Hi, Dan. Hi, everybody. Welcome back. Mary Beth, you look so comfortable.

[49:17]

I try to be comfortable. Everybody else is just waiting for the yes, they're waiting for their time people like really max out, you know You give 56 seconds. Some people go right down to the yeah, I Don't think everybody knows they have that. Oh, here we go. Now. They're coming back Is that everybody Laura you'll be able to tell if that's everybody I think it is I There's 24 people. We may have lost one person or something. That's great. All right. Well, welcome back. So we have very short time, but if there's anybody that wanted to share anything that you talked about that you wanted to say or comment, I see Ross waving his hand. Go ahead. Hi. Well, thank you for the breakout room opportunity to chat.

[50:25]

The question that came up for me, that prompted my hand raising, that I talked a little bit with my partner, was the Buddha, Buddha's disciples, as I heard your story, dissuaded Patachara from coming in and mingling. They were trying to protect the Buddha, apparently from some person that was maybe mentally unstable, if I understood or heard your reading. So my question is, how do we now deal with people who are in need of help or assistance with their well-being? How do we recognize someone's mental instability and where Zen Center Buddhist practice maybe cannot help them? Whereas, you know, back in Buddhist time, we didn't have, presumably they didn't have mental health services and things of that sort. That's the question that comes up for me now around that story and what we're doing with that today.

[51:27]

Yeah, I had that same question when I poured through all the literature. It might have even been Sandy Boucher, I don't remember. One person said, yes, that's exactly it. In Buddha's time, there weren't all those services. So what does that mean? I mean, of course the services we have today are important. I think I don't know the answer to your question, but I think it's a really good question to walk around with, you know, to hold. And, you know, maybe there's a middle way. I don't pretend to have an answer to that question. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Maybe somebody else has something to say about that. Or about anything. Right. Julianne and Ron? Well, I was thinking in answer to Ross's question, we should look at Padachara's practice after she became a disciple and how she attracted, I guess, I don't know if that's the right word, but how a lot of women came to her who had also lost their children.

[52:50]

and think about, I guess, trying to help like with like, if that makes any sense. And thinking about people who we see who have problems and thinking about what their common thread might be with others who are also suffering from the same problems and trying to, I don't know, look at it in that sense. Kind of an incomplete solution, but I don't know, just a thought. Yeah. Thank you. Ron. Well, I think at BCC, there's no formula for that. And I don't think we need a formula. It's more like, I think if each person, if you just like what you said Susan, relate to the person you're talking to as a person, you'll find a way that you can talk to them and if what they're doing is not appropriate, you can say so.

[54:00]

Can you hear me okay? Yes. Am I freezing up? A little, it's okay. I can understand you. Okay, okay. So that's my feeling and I've had several instances like that where It just stayed with the person and got a feel for who they were, and then it just naturally found a conclusion somehow. It wasn't like they were trying to cause trouble or anything. Yeah, and really what you're saying is that, I like what you're saying, there's no formula, that it's individual. And that's what's in our practice. But it's what you said, it's connecting with the person. no matter what their state of mind is. Yeah. Anyone else want to share? It's like Linda's got her hand up. Linda, go ahead, Linda.

[55:01]

Just what Ron and Susan just said reminded me that I, Susan, I appreciated a lot your story of you and the student who called you up and it really did echo the story of Patachara not because she had been through the same thing but it actually brought it into the present out of the realm of mythology and you kind of did what the what the buddha did you know don't let your head get swelled here on but i mean you did that you you just listened and you let her express as much as was the right amount. And then your offering to her was very good, you know, like I'm reflecting back on that now. So thanks. Well, it's often, you know, both heartbreaking and I have a lot of students that have tested positive for COVID and a lot who are working, you know, they're all immigrants, they're working in

[56:13]

jobs that put them at great risk, and they're living in homes with six, seven, eight people fanning out, you know, so it's, you quickly realize you don't have a solution, right? Well, you could listen to the wholeness of, the whole of her grief. That was a big part of your answer, actually. And then you could say, what can you do and what can you not do? Anyway, that was In retrospect, that was wonderful. I'd probably learn that from you. Okay, one last, any one last person? Karen. Oh, I saw Christian there too. This is short. I read a different version of Patachara a few weeks ago. And the moment before she meets the Buddha, She comes to a, she's at a river or in some water and she, I think being in the water reminds her somehow of what happened to her.

[57:22]

So she had forgotten. She didn't even anywhere remember why she was mad or crazy or anything. She had just gone into that groove, that habit of mind, but she's in the water and she starts slapping at the water and raging at the water. And this image of like how we rage against our own groove, you know, and in a way was like, with you, with your student, she was already starting the process before the disciples got out of the way and Buddha met her. So it was like somehow she was part of it also, like her presence of mind was coming back and maybe that's why he could just give her that reminder because otherwise it doesn't seem like you know, when I go into my mental illness, if you just say, hey, get it together, it doesn't necessarily work. I need a little more. So it seemed to me that she started the process, you know, that she had some responsibility there.

[58:27]

I think is that that's the Sally Tisdale version. Yeah. And I wasn't sure if Those versions were necessarily the same, you know, they're different stories, but I like the way you told it as the same story. Yeah. It's about 8.32, so sorry, Chris. We should stop. So just to, like, as my concluding remarks, I just wanted to encourage us all to consider some personal way that we might hold the female ancestors with us during these classes. And I'm a very tactile person, so I was thinking, just wanted to sort of plant this seed. It could be journaling, or it could be writing poems, or drawing, or painting, or collecting images. Linda sent me a beautiful image this morning. I started writing some haiku as a result of being with the Patachara story.

[59:30]

Or it might just be that you get interested in a certain woman ancestor and start diving into that story. Because on the fourth night, we'd like some time for more sharing of what people are reading and or thinking about as we go along. That's it. Thank you all so much for coming out on an evening.

[59:57]

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