Good morning. I'd like to introduce our today's speaker, who is Jerry Oliva. The government-made unit itself. Seisen Ikushi, which means Pure Sweet Nourishing Heart. Jerry's been practicing for decades in the U.N. and other areas nearby. She was ordained in 2012 and served as your SO in 2009. She's been practicing She has navigated a career in medicine with her family and children. And as she says, she's been practicing for over 10 years. Thank you. Well, I had a really nice experience bowing at the altar. I try to notice and be

[01:01]

completely aware of the altar every time I bow. I always try to meet Buddha's eyes. today the sun was shining on Buddha's mouth in just the way that it looked like Buddha was smiling. And I thought, I've met Buddha. And that is really what I kind of want to talk about today. So it's interesting that I had that experience. As you know, we're doing aspects of practice now. Four-week practice intensive that we do every year at this time of year. And we're all studying Suzuki Roshi's Not Always So, which is a compilation of lectures that he gave towards the end of his life. And today, I'm going to be talking about

[02:03]

wherever you are, enlightenment is there. And also not sticking to enlightenment. Those are two chapters in the book. As Alan mentioned when he gave his talk, one of the things that we find really interesting now is going back to the original lectures of Suzuki Roshi to hear what actually did Suzuki Roshi say? And then how is that interpreted in the book? And often, there are some wonderful things you find in those lectures that probably would have been difficult to convey in a book, but really for me provides sort of the underlying key. Sometimes the little turning word that helps actually understand. So I'm going to be going back and forth between what's written in this book and then some of Suzuki Roshi's talks from the transcripts. So this chapter is wherever you are, enlightenment is here. And it begins,

[03:03]

in our practice, the most important thing to realize is to realize that we have Buddha nature. Intellectually, we know this, but it is rather difficult to accept. Our everyday life is in the realm of good and bad, the realm of duality, while Buddha nature is found in the realm of the absolute, where there is no good and no bad. There is a two-fold reality. Our practice is to go beyond the realm of good and bad and to realize the absolute. It may be rather difficult to understand. Sazen practice is the mixing of the various ways we have an understanding and letting it all work together. A kerosene lamp will not work merely because it's filled with kerosene. It also needs air for combustion

[04:05]

and even with air, it needs matches. By the aid of matches, air, kerosene, the lamp will work. This is our Sazen practice. Maybe I am a very smoky kerosene lamp. I don't necessarily want to give a lecture. True. I just want to live I can't see. I just want to live with you moving stones, having a nice hot spring bath, and eating something good. Zen is right here. When I start to talk, it is already a smoky kerosene lamp. As long as I must give a lecture, I have to explain this is right practice. This is wrong. This is how to practice

[05:05]

Sazen. It's like giving you a recipe. It doesn't work. This kerosene lamp metaphor is giving this lecture towards the end of his life at Tassajara. One of the things that is important to understand when you are reading these is the context. When he uses the metaphor like kerosene lamp, that is because everybody every day at Tassajara is experiencing how to light a kerosene lamp. For those of you who have never had the pleasure, it is an art form. You have to make a decision every time you go into a dark room whether or not you want to deal with the horrible kerosene fumes that can choke you or some awful black dust that comes up. As you are learning, maybe by the time the end of the

[06:05]

practice period is, you kind of get the knack of how to turn it just right. I was thinking about that metaphor being about balance in our lives, being about how we balance the aspects of our lives. Sojin once told me that balance was my koan in life and I think it's true. Always how to balance my practice life, my formal practice life, with my professional life, with my life with kids, with my life with a partner, having some friends occasionally. Having that somehow balance, that balance of practice and not feeling the great separation between coming in here and experiencing some really tranquility

[07:06]

or experiencing some intuitive sense of getting emptiness and beginning to understand some of the habits of mind, all of that. Coming in here and having these experiences and then rushing out because I needed to get home because the kids were coming home from school or I had to get something done for work that was due the next day. And I thought that I kind of had done that pretty well, that I managed to make some decisions prioritizing this part of my life was in this position and it varied according to some life circumstances. Obviously, if I had a family member who was in crisis, I needed to take care of that. That's part of my life. That's a balance of my life.

[08:08]

But I would always, and Sojin encouraged me to always have a commitment to a certain level of practice that I could do and stick to it. But that it wasn't somehow that you just had to be sitting in the Zendo all the time in order to practice. You had to make decisions about your practice of your life as well. I thought I He's going to sleep. I thought I actually kind of had that down. It took me many years, but I kind of had it down. But each time I fooled myself. I fooled myself into thinking, oh, I've got it. And I can kind of seamlessly move back and forth. And then when I began to concentrate my practice, my life more here,

[09:12]

being ordained and having more responsibilities here, I thought that I could really handle it, that there was no limit. I could just do whatever. We're asked to say yes, I could do whatever was asked of me, and I would just be fine. And for a long time I actually, Sojin would say to me sometimes that maybe you're doing too much. And I say, no, I just am so happy when I'm here and I'm doing things. But one thing about practicing for a long time is you reach these points of extreme humility when you really think that you have practice as a teacher, you practice as a sitter, you practice in some job or whatever that you're doing. And I was amazed to notice, and it was pointed out to me by some of my

[10:12]

Dharma brothers and sisters, that I was off. And I didn't know that I was off. I knew that there was something not okay. And this happened in the last four or five months. I knew that my expression, there was something about the way I was expressing myself that was not the way I like to express myself. There was some edge to it that I wasn't sure where it came from. And I finally actually said, I have to really step back. I have to step, focus more on formal practice rather than Sangha practice and look a little bit more carefully. And I think what I found was that there was some ego attachment

[11:14]

to feeling like I was the one who had to do certain things. That I had to do it. If I didn't do it, there was something like that going on. I can't really put words to it, but it was, I wasn't even aware that it was going on. And so I so it actually made me more aware that we can fool ourselves into thinking that our practice is doing things here, doing jobs, being part of Sangha, being part of sitting practice, whatever it is. And even within our practice, there's a balance. And he talks about this all the time, and I discover it all the time. I mean, it's not like this is the first time it ever happened, but it was the most embarrassing to me. Because I wasn't I wasn't

[12:16]

reflecting. I didn't have, I didn't step back enough. I wasn't quiet enough. Something that I let my own ego mind slip in. And so I think he's talking about, so when he's talking about enlightenment, we assume that in enlightenment we have some awareness of both the things that are going on in our life, and can practice with those, as well as the realm of emptiness, the realm of the absolute, where we understand that there's nothing to get, there's nothing to hold on to, and yet it seeps in. And it takes a kind of vigilance, a vigilance, actually. It takes even harder practice sometimes.

[13:16]

And even when you practice for longer periods of time, whenever you think you get something, you get a big wake-up call that somehow it was something glaring that other people could see, but you couldn't see. Which is the value of Sangha practice, if you have relationships with Sangha practice. So that's kind of what Sojin, what he says here. Zazen practice is a very subtle thing. When you practice, you become aware of things you did not notice while you were working. Today I moved stones for a while, and I didn't realize that my muscles were tired. But when I was calmly sitting Zazen, I realized, oh, my muscles are in pretty bad condition. I felt some pain in the various parts of my body.

[14:18]

You might think you could practice Zazen much better if you had no problem, but actually some problem is necessary. It doesn't have to be a big one. Through the difficulty, you can practice Zazen. This is an especially meaningful point, which is why Dogen Zenji says practice and enlightenment are one. Practice is something you do consciously, something you do with effort. There, right there, is enlightenment. So it's in the aha of, oh, look, I did it again, or, oh, look, I see what's going on right now. Many Zen masters missed the point. While they were striving to attain perfect Zazen, things that exist are imperfect. That is how everything actually exists in the world. Nothing we see or hear is perfect. But right here in the imperfection is perfect reality.

[15:20]

It is true intellectually and also in the realm of practice. It is true on paper and true with our body. And here's a section from his transcribed talks. So even so, you know, I explained the other night, if we, you know, if we realize that our practice is lazy practice, then you may feel, you don't feel good. And this kind of mistake is happening every day. And we cannot enjoy our practice. What should we do? And what I said was that you realize your practice is not good. What mind, you know, found out

[16:21]

your lazy practice? Your big mind found out your mistake. So if you find out the big mind, which is working on your lazy practice, small-minded practice, then at that point, at least your practice is good. So before you make some complaint, you should appreciate the big mind which appear in your mind. That was, you know, my answer. Whatever you do is, it is okay. But I don't mean that. I don't mean that. Important point is, you know, only when big mind appear, the small mind, you know, will vanish, should vanish. You should not compare a big mind to a small mind. What I meant is don't worry about your small mind when you have big mind. How to continue your true practice on big mind is the point. That is the point. But I didn't. I did not mean even though you have lazy practice, it is okay.

[17:21]

That is a big misunderstanding. It's not okay. But if I say so, it's not okay. You will be discouraged if it is not. If I say it is not okay, so your practice will be continuous, you know, practice of not okay. One after another, not okay practice will continue. You feel in that way, but if you carefully know, think about it, the continuously practice, wrong practice is big minded practice. Continuous activity of the mind. Well, I'm an expert at this. If you understand in that way, you know true understanding of practice. This point is very important. So even though we finish our Sashin, we should continue well organized life to have real enlightenment. When you practice hard according to the right instruction of your teacher, then that is how you have real enlightenment experience. But even though you want to have, he repeats himself

[18:23]

in funny ways, even though, expect you, even though you want to have this, have a taste of true practice, it may be difficult to have. The only way to have it is to just continue right practice, following the right instruction and the right teacher. That is the only way. If you follow right schedule in your practice, you know, naturally someday you may have a taste of it. Nowadays, you know, we make a date. People are always making dates, but his enlightenment is not something you can meet on a date. And he actually goes on to talk about young people dating, but I won't go into that. But he basically is saying we really can't be having opinions about all of this. We

[19:25]

are really just living and experiencing it moment to moment without judgment, but with awareness. And that awareness, the awareness of what's going on and saying, aha, there it is again, or not even saying that. A habit of mind, a habit of mind that we don't like, that shows up over and over again. However many years we practice, that old habit of mind will show up now and then. It's just that old habit of mind, that's what it does. It's coming up there from your alaya. Maybe you haven't totally transformed your storehouse consciousness yet and still have some of those conditioned responses. I do. But it's the way you deal with them, not that you have them. So accepting, completely accepting you as a human person who lives in a dualistic

[20:28]

world and who falls back into ego sometimes and who falls back into dualism and just saying, oh, I fell back into dualism again. I recognize that. It's the recognition and the okayness with the recognition that is the true understanding. It's this combining of the relative and the absolute in the moment of your particular experience and recognizing it not as something magical. I mean, that's the amazing thing about Suzuki Roshi to me is he takes it, he gives you one example after another of what's really going on when he's giving these lectures. These people have been sitting there for days and they're experiencing all of these things he's talking about. And he's telling them, whatever is going on with you, you're still here, you're still sitting. Pay attention, you're there. Pay attention, it's all here.

[21:28]

It's really interesting that he doesn't try to go, especially in the books that we have to read. He doesn't try to take you on some trip to some other land or to something obscure. It's always right down right here where we work. And I think that that is what we take when we leave. What we take when we leave our sitting is we take a mind that can see. And if we are with that mind that can see and that awareness, we have it where it's with us always. It's with us always. And sometimes the balance is off. I was talking about balance before. The balance is off. Sometimes you're seeing this

[22:30]

field of duality and there's a little peak of the oxtail. There's the oxtail pictures when you're trying to find practice and you're trying to find enlightenment. There's a little tail that peaks out from behind a bush. So sometimes you're caught in your life, but if you're practicing consistently, the little tail will peak up and remind you, oh, I see. And other times you can get a little bit lost on the other side and kind of not be taking care of what's in front of you because you're in this constructed world of feeling like you should be in this unconstructed world of the absolute. So you have to have a little ping from tripping when you're doing something to recognize that you better pay attention to your feet or an ache in your leg that gives you a clue that you do have a body. You can't get away from it

[23:30]

as much as we try. So the other aspect of this that I wanted to... another aspect I wanted to talk about was that I think is really important. So I will read again from Suzuki Roshi's transcript. And it has to do with following the rules and observing the structure. In my lecture, sometimes I say everyone has Buddha nature. And whatever you do, that is, you know, Buddha activity, I say. But on the other hand, I say you must follow the rule. And when you practice Zazen, you should practice in some certain way. Keep your spine straight, cross your legs, and pull your neck as if you were supporting something. And pull in your chin. There are many, you know, instructions.

[24:32]

You will be confused when I say. You know, it looks like a contradiction to say, to rule, to put emphasis on rules and to follow our schedules. It is, if whatever you do that is, you know, Buddha's activity, then why must we have a rule? This is a question you may have. From one viewpoint, there are two completely different viewpoints. One is we say everything has Buddha nature. Nothing is great or nothing is small, too small. To lift up a speck of dust means to lift up the whole universe. When we say that way, it means that we are talking about our original nature from the standpoint of the absolute. When we, you know, put emphasis on strict rule, at that time, we put emptiness on actual practice, the relative. Practice is the way to achieve and have direct experience of the first principle. Only when you practice,

[25:36]

you put, the first principle is the absolute. You put emphasis on your practice, you will, you know, experience. You have the direct experience of first principle. But when, you know, we talk about by words, we cannot say both sides at once. Then we talk about, you know, the first, the absolute. Everything has Buddha nature, period. No words follow, everything has Buddha nature. So, he, he makes a point about the rules and about following the structure. And, and that's, and he has that, that is very important. And Dogen also talked about the rigorous practice and the structure of vigorous practice.

[26:38]

And in Dogen's guidelines for practice, he talks about having a strong relationship with a good teacher, studying the sutras. All of these are part of your practice, even though Zazen, Zazen is the heart of the practice, but Zazen alone is supported by relationship with a teacher, relationship and study, and ongoing vigorous following a schedule, making a commitment, structuring your life in a certain way that allows you to practice this structure, there's a certain discipline that's inherent in Zen practice that I think we don't always talk about. And it's very easy to fall off, you know, it's very easy to not get up in the morning, it's very easy to say, well, I just don't feel well,

[27:40]

so maybe I won't do that. It's very easy to, to say, well, I'm going to Zazen, but I really don't have to talk to a teacher, or I don't really feel like reading. I had an aversion when I first started practicing to study, I had done a lot of studying in my life, and a lot of reading of medical journals, and I really did not want that, what I loved about practice was the actual sitting practice, that was it for me. And Sojin said, well, you know, just go to the class and do Zazen. And I did that. I went, you know, so he says it's important for me to go to the class, so I'll go to the class and do Zazen. And I think that really, you know, it kind of somehow seeps in,

[28:42]

even though you're not, you're going with the idea that I don't get this, you know, eventually over the years you start getting things. Because if you try to get it too much intellectually before you've done enough sitting, then sometimes the intellectual or the discursive thought, the conceptual thought kind of gets in the way of the actual practice. But if you just take in the stuff as part of your experience, and again just take it in without judgment, take it in as much as will come in without judging yourself about not studying hard enough or not getting it or why aren't I doing this or how smart am I or what I can do. That's just talking and that is in the way. But you just go. And this idea of rules and discipline, it's really to me at the heart of a lot of this is

[29:44]

because when because it really makes a difference to make, to set an intention. It really makes a difference. And I'm going to say something that will sound contradictory now because everything always sounds contradictory. So on the one hand, so there's always this discernment when we make a decision to participate or to engage in difficult practice, to sign up for this machine, to decide we're going to do that despite some hindrances. So on the one way, we don't want to be guilty about a true illness or something that we have or some limitation that we have that doesn't allow us to fully practice. But on the other hand, it's also helpful

[30:45]

to push that limit. I decided to do the session in June in spite of the fact that I had inflammation of my sciatic nerve and I had no idea how I could do that. People said, why are you doing this? There's no way you should do this. It would be too painful. And I thought, well, what's the discernment? What is the discernment? Am I wanting to do this because my ego is wanting to do this and really cut through everything and show how strong I am or feel good about myself because I'm willing to do this? Or do I really know what's going on here with me? And so I thought, well, I really have a yearning to be part of the session. That's what I do every year. I want to do

[31:47]

that. It's part of what my life is. How do I work with that? And what was interesting was and it's just the typical thing about what he's talking about, you know, enlightenment is everywhere in this imperfect world. I had to really work really hard to be here, to figure out what was bearable in terms of sitting, to explore positions, to take a rest and put my heating pad on my back. But there's something that happened in the working with this imperfect self with an intention, with a devotion to practice, with an aspiration to just be part of the practice period, part of the session. And

[32:48]

over the period of five days, you know, I reached that period sometimes two or three days in when you don't know why you're there and you wish you could get out. But I just said it doesn't have to be this or that. You know, I can work with this disability and be here as much as I can, as fully as I can. And I think that's what kind of having some kind of, there's something about discipline. Discipline is a bad word in our culture. But I think that, and we're not having in this kind of practice place monastic discipline. But there is something about the need for some commitment that comes from somewhere in our deepest place. And then we just do the best we can knowing that we can stumble but making that commitment. Something really changes

[33:51]

in people's practice when they do that. It's like, these are the days, I mean, this is what Sojin taught me years and years ago and I swear by it. These are the days I'm getting up. That's it. The alarm rings, you get up. Decide to come every day? You come every day. It's just the way that is, but it comes first with this setting of an intention, a deep, deep setting of an intention. And it doesn't have to be an intention to sit every day. It can be an intention to sit once a week or twice a week or whatever. But it's some intention that you follow through on that is part of this process. Because otherwise, why would we stick with it? Let me see. Let me see. There was another another

[34:53]

point, Sojin, that he made also. He said, to have so-called enlightened experience is, of course, important. But what is more important is to know how to adjust the flame in our everyday life. When the flame is incomplete... No, is it? Nope, this is not one. This is not the one. Anyway, what he talks about in one of these is the need that you also need a Sangha friend. You also need a friend to practice with you. Any friend, any support. That that also is a part of practice. So, the other... I think the big... the other point that he makes in these chapters is that the danger

[35:56]

when you start to practice and when you start to do wholehearted practice is you can get attached to the practice and you can get attached to the idea of enlightenment and you can get attached to the idea of the dwelling in the realm of the absolute. And we don't have much time, so I will just read it. Usually we practice... we expect something. If we try hard, our practice will improve. No, this is not it. Is it? Here it is. Hui Ning, the Sixth Ancestor, said, to dwell on emptiness and to keep calm mind is not Zazen. He also said, just to sit in cross-legged posture is not Zen. At the same time, I always say to you,

[36:57]

just sit. If you don't understand what our practice is and stick to the words, you will be confused. But if you understand what real Zazen is, you will know that the Ancestor's words are a word of warning. Now our Cixin is almost at an end. Now this talk is almost at an end. And soon you will be going back to your homes and becoming involved in your everyday activity. If you have been practicing true Zazen, you may be happy to go back to your life. You may feel encouraged to go back. But if you feel hesitant to go back to your city life or everyday life, it means that you will stick to Zazen. That is why the Sixth Ancestor said, if you dwell on emptiness and stick to your practice, then that is not true Zazen. So, this is basically reiterating what he's saying all along, which is, we have a practice, that practice is

[37:58]

Zazen, but that Zazen is everywhere, that we take that Zazen mind with us, that we see everything in the way that we see when we're sitting. Now, we're never going to do that completely. So, we're going to have this dynamic dance, this endless dynamic dance. And the endless dynamic dance is what it is. It's never going to be anything else. It's never going to be easier. It's always going to be messy. And we're going to go in and out of feeling really cool and feeling not so. And that is what it is. The dance with no expectations. What time is it? So, where? I could ask. So, are there any questions?

[38:58]

Ko? Speaking of dance, there's a word avoidance. And I get caught in that avoidance a lot. And I don't know why. It's almost like too much sleep or something like that. And at times it sort of whistles like I'm in a void. And it's really cool or whatever. It's also like disconnecting from life. Yes. And why is that so alluring? It's like anti-survival. Why is it so alluring? It seems to be human nature that we seek pleasure and avoid pain. It's in our DNA. But animals go for something sweet, not something sour. We just have a survival mechanism that seeks that

[40:04]

desires bliss, maybe. And practice actually shouldn't be teaching us to find bliss. I mean, it's a way to find tranquility with or without bliss. So if we let ourselves go into the void or we go into the realm of bliss, then we're only going to... There's only one end to that, right? Misery. So once you go after it, even if you think you catch it, you caught nothing. Mary? Yes.

[41:25]

Yeah, I think that's right. And it's funny that they call zazen or shamatha practice tranquility practice. But it's actually... It's being able to be settled with all of it. It's not what we call tranquility, like a calm... I mean, there's some place that's always calm. But there's the other dimension that's always there. Thoughts are always popping up. Feelings are always popping up. So it is. It's the... It is not a steady state. There's no way. It's a dynamic dynamic activity. Yeah. Well, I could say,

[42:45]

you know, Sojin talks about faith types and doubt types. I'm a faith type. I think some of it arises from from Buddhist understanding, I think. You know, some of it arises from knowing knowing that if I am practicing and if I am responding if I'm in a place where I'm practicing enough so that I can be responding from a place of awareness there is positive reinforcement. Even though I don't necessarily do it for that reason. There's a change. There's a change. You know, it gets reinforced. Sustained and committed practice gets reinforced by what

[43:47]

your world is. It's not perfect. But things do change. You know, there is shifting that happens. So I have an intention to I have an intention to help people. I've always had that. I was born with that. But the intention to do that through practice is that by becoming a person who can process things and kind of act skillfully that's a rewarding practice. That changes your life There's much less melodrama and much less up and down. There's much more evenness to life. So I think it's two things. One is I have an aspiration to follow the Bodhisattva vows but the other thing is that the quality of your life

[44:49]

actually changes. Your relationships change. Yeah. ... Oh, okay. ... [...] Well, Catherine said when you can't do it anymore. I think that there are physical limitations and there are mental limitations. You know, you can't

[45:50]

you come here and you try and there's things that happen that are reality for your body. Judy Burleson once suggested in a different context that we provide people with a schedule to do Sashin at home in the way that they can. Which actually sounds like a good idea for some older folks who can't actually do the rigors of Zazen practice here. But there really are limitations, right? People can't sit. Sitting is agonizing. They can't stay awake that long and it's harmful to them. They have a weak heart or they have a weak lungs. I mean, there's reality. That's when reality comes in. That's the messiness of life. So that's another way of... So it's another big challenge of how do we gracefully and sincerely continue our practice with our limitations? And that's not only older people.

[46:53]

It's people with other disabilities. I mean, you're amazing. You do a lot more than many people with your level of disability. You do it by intention and by commitment. I think we encourage people to find somebody to talk about it with to make the decision. I think that'll be the last thing. Pain starts happening and I want to keep going.

[47:53]

And one of the things that I've found really, really helpful to tell myself over the years is, okay, if I stay home, I'm going to be miserable at home. I'll still have the pain at home. So why don't I go and surround myself with my son? I'm still going to be miserable. I'm still going to be hurting. But I've got the distraction of all of you and I've got the feelings that happen here. And if it's a machine, people are going to hate me. I can sleep on the floor in the community room during rest break or my what is it, our mindful movement? It's always on the floor. There's a lot of support here and I just want to encourage anybody that has physical disabilities to try it. Bring your pain here. We don't care. Nobody's going to look down when you're taking a nap or sitting out as odd as I'm doing a nap. But that's a discernment process.

[48:55]

And the other thing is to just work with a teacher or a Dharma friend to figure out what works. And then do that. And as long as you do that, whatever that is, that's the same commitment. So we don't measure it by number of hours or how much pain you sit through. It's not measured that way. It's measured by you making a commitment, a sincere commitment to do what you can with good intention and be with the practice in the way that you can. And then you're there. Yeah. Okay.

[49:36]

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