And if I said the real topic is what is not discussed? The real topic is what? Of course, he says. Or the real topic could become what is not discussed. Oder das echte Thema könnte das werden, was nicht besprochen wird. Or perhaps what we discussed would be more real a topic if it wasn't discussed. So what shall we discuss? Yes. Well, that's exactly what I'm wondering about since I've come.

[01:04]

Because I'm stuck in a paradoxical situation. If I understood correctly, this is about non-duality. If I understood correctly, this is about non-duality. And we speak in a language that's built on duality and that can only be expressed through making distinctions. and are carefully making use of thoughts in order to differentiate thoroughly or carefully and to make thus make more and more distinctions.

[02:19]

This is my paradox. I cannot express myself if I do not use this language. I cannot understand duality if I do not use this language. And the paradoxical situation for me is that I cannot express myself unless I use this language, but I cannot understand duality if I do use this language. Yes. I have approached this problem. I think it's better not to speak about it. Yeah, I feel that nonduality is kind of meaningless to say. But if I say unduality activity, and I'm using words right now, calls forth trust and appreciation, gratefulness.

[03:29]

If the undivided activity, which is always supporting us, and always more fully supports us through trust. And I'm actively grateful for this undivided activity. And so when I feel these yellow flowers out there are kind of iris maybe and I find each flower supports me as it appears from this undivided activity

[04:40]

I would say that's a definition of the experience of non-duality. And I used words because I could. So thank you for showing me that. Yes, please. Yes. . What I've thought about is that in the womb we live in an undivided world. That's where we come from. And then we are thrown out. And we have to recognize something about inside and outside.

[06:11]

And not just think separation, but actually experience separation. Yes. And to take this experience and to let it shake us, if it goes over well, it takes about 15 years. I said, if it goes over well. Yeah. Yeah. To have the pain of separation, and to this experience of being pushed out and through this to experience non-duality over and over anew.

[07:37]

This thankfulness or this joy that it is something different than in motherhood, the simple being without experience. And the joy and the gratitude that comes forth from that is different than the pre-conscious experience or non-experience of just being undivided that happens in the womb. abstoßt, wie bei Wittgenstein die Leiter, die einen dahin geführt hat auf die andere Ebene der Non-dualität. And with this experience of separation, it's maybe like Wittgenstein says, that at some point when you've reached an experience of non-duality, that then you don't need the ladder that lets you there initially, which is the experience of separation, so then you can just get rid of the ladder.

[09:07]

Okay. Would you say you learned to use separation? Yes, Jack. I wonder... Is he making trouble again? Yeah. I wonder why we all dislike duality so much, because it's a wonderful thing.

[10:07]

And it's just that we also want to be able to experience the other end of the swing, but I want both. That's called making use of duality. Okay. What I would really... What's going on? Okay, he says, but how do you do it, making use of duality? And he says, through language, through speaking. He helps a little. Sometimes. What I would really like is if you wore a wig, and I could borrow it and wear it tomorrow. Don't you think I would look fantastic with this? Yes. We try to make it cheap.

[11:26]

That's non-duality. That's not duality. Yes, it's duality. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. I'm not sure to what extent what I want to say has anything to do with our topic. But I try. Since yesterday, you've been speaking about the elephant. And animals. And today during meditation I felt a narrowness, a tightness in the area of the solar plexus. It was unpleasant. And then I've borrowed a practice from Nicole.

[12:47]

Which is to, like in a constellation, to feel in my mind that I'm taking it out and that I'm placing it in front of me. And I liked that. And you, me in this case, told her that I work that way, that I've done that. And then a figure showed itself, revealed itself, which I've felt more than that I've seen it. It was a really wild companion. It was wildly dancing.

[13:50]

It was mean, too, huh? Because your face took such a mean expression. It's kind of scary. He wasn't dangerous. He didn't want to harm anyone. Uh-huh. Yeah, but it felt like someone who was totally wildly engaged with wanting to protect, a wild protector. Okay. That was a good, good thing. Good feeling. And it felt liberated somehow. Somehow that's continuing. Somehow wild animals are emerging from me. And then I noticed how you spoke before the break that I heard the mantras differently than I usually hear them.

[15:10]

This phrase already connected. Or now here-ness. Yes. And suddenly I felt it all the way down here. I suddenly felt it all in this area. And that was a different kind of connectedness than if I feel it up here or up here or something. Yeah. And in some sense, I felt like I was working with a separation that was not between inside and outside, but that was inside me, that was between me and me.

[16:10]

Yeah. So one is quite able to establish separation just anywhere. And then I felt reminded of how you spoke about Western culture and yogic culture. And one thing I find really difficult about our Christian culture is this idea that somehow one is supposed to be good. There are so many different ideas about how one ought to be. ... And I don't know, but I hope that in yogic culture they feel better. How do you feel? How do you feel?

[17:32]

This process is very good. Then you're in for the pudding. You will. It's interesting that you introduced what you were saying by saying, I'm not sure this is relevant to what we've been speaking about. And then you go on to speak to the very center of what we've been speaking about. Maybe the tetralemma is here again. I'm not speaking about it, but I am. It was daring to even say something like this. Yeah. Well, it went over well.

[18:33]

You know, I think I'm always, when I'm here in the midst of you, constellation fanatics. I mean, that's too much to say. I feel I'm always in the midst of a constellation. And not only do I feel a... You know, I don't like the word human being, as I've said many times, because there's the non-human. And I try to never use the word human being because it implies there's non-human.

[19:36]

And when I have salad next door, it's not non-human salad, it's human salad. So I always substitute mutual being for human being. Because I experience us as mutual beings. And when I experience us as mutual beings not only do I experience each of us individually Difference is more fully different when it's on a shared background. When there's a shared background, difference is much clearer.

[20:45]

And more appreciable. So not only do I experience the individuality of each of us, in a larger field of mutual beingness, and I really do feel the mutual beingness as well as the individual beingness, but in this field of consolation practice, I feel underneath all of us is another dynamic of being, beingness, which, for example, we can understand is one way of looking at what's underneath.

[22:05]

underlying is, but under truthing, is the tetralemma. I don't know. That's the tetralemma. Because we're not only mutual beings, but we're multi-generational beings. And virtually every constellation I've seen and apprised is the mutual beingness, the multi-generational beingness becomes apparent. And there, it's very clear, there's alive and dead and both alive and dead and neither. And there, it's very clear, there's alive and dead and neither.

[23:16]

Yeah, dynamic field of undivided activity. Which the practice of constellation practice has somehow discovered a way to call into articulation What has been unseen, actively unseen. And I also feel it's like the elephant maybe that's in the room but invisible. Or the quality of not yetness and here-ness and was there-ness.

[24:35]

So this understanding of suchness as a way of knowing in the midst of not yetness and here-ness. And somehow when constellations, the chemistry of constellations, the valency of constellations is effective. And when the work factors of the constellations you really feel the power of the presence of the not yet-ness and the almost there-ness.

[25:37]

I don't know if that I should say by way of introduction. I don't know if this has anything to do with what we're doing, but I ought to. Yes. You're very dependable, Christy. You have something to say. This helps. You're always very reliable. You can always say something. I've experienced so many times that I couldn't ask anyone. And I thought, how did I ask? How was it possible? But I thought, I can't ask for long. But in this context... In this context... Now she introduced her statement by saying, I've experienced so often that I couldn't ask a person anymore who I've always wanted to ask something and then I felt so much regret about not asking them and it was still possible.

[27:08]

And so that now that you're still here, All present, raise their hands. All present, raise their hands. All present, raise their hands. Cause and effect is a couple of words or ideas that are so important in Buddhism. And I've never been interested. But now I have the feeling that in this room, where the past, the future and the present are present in one, in one, in one activity, that this is now, from this concept point of view, again discussed.

[28:17]

But now in this space where what is so present is what has been the past, what will be the future in the space of the present. And so that I feel like what we've been, the idea of undivided, so that this is all present in undivided activity. I feel like this idea ought to be looked at from the perspective of cause and effect. The problem is, for me, is if I speak about cause and effect. These are English words for me. And they almost entirely have their meaning through assumptions built into Western culture. And that's one of the problems with studying Buddhism.

[29:27]

All of these translators translate from Sanskrit and Pali the words as cause and effect, and it is not the same. If you want to tempt me into another seminar here, You asked me to speak about the reformulation of cause and effect through entirely different words. Thank you. Causing trouble again.

[30:31]

Yeah, so that's my answer. You know, even words which we have been wary of for a century or two now, soul, And the word soul, which even in Greek times and even early, even before Socrates, but Socrates speaks about the soul and the body separate at death. Okay. All right. Now, we've been suspicious of that idea culturally, philosophically, for at least a few hundred years in Europe, I'd say.

[31:36]

I'm not an expert, but that's okay. But I see the word soul built into everyone's thinking. You no longer believe it. but you act within its potential truth. So whenever I am going to do a seminar, I see these wonderful people, not just you, but I feel really connected, and then I see the mountain. that I can never climb to the top of, where such change is possible at the top.

[32:49]

I love to watch her translate, you know. But I refuse to get into despair. I mean, you've made it, so we can. That's optimistic, that I've made it, and it's even more optimistic that you've made it. This is a tree zen response. But I've gotten up the mountain a little ways, but it's all shale, shale?

[34:16]

Broken up stone and stuff. And I start sliding back down. He says, where is the mountain? If you don't know I can't help you. That's like the story in the Buddhist story in the Lotus Sutra where you're looking for the jewel and it's inside your clothes. Yes. A few years ago you spoke about Ursula and Finkmann and I would like to check if I understood that correctly.

[35:31]

A few years ago, you spoke about the topic of cause and effect. Oh, I did? Okay. And I would like... I'd like to check if I understood. And at the time, you spoke about, in the West, the misunderstood teaching of karma. Yes, that's right. What I understood is that the actual teaching of karma is the cause and effect in its all connectedness, in the connectedness of everything. Yeah, not the linear idea of cause and effect, but the idea of cause and effect that has a feedback loop and so forth.

[36:34]

Well, yeah. And that the misunderstanding basically is to try to look for one cause for a given effect, that that's really a misunderstanding. Or a mistake. another cause for an effect. Because the first thing to notice is it's actually cause, [...] not cause and effect. Everything new. Yeah, right, birthing. We're all midwives of undivided activity.

[37:40]

Okay, is it time for dinner or supper? We're only five, six minutes late. That's not too bad. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[38:06]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_79.14