Tangled Up in Blue

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BZ-02305
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i've been thinking about this talk for a while ah
and i've been waiting a
about six months ago i published an article in inquiring mind wishes are entitled say was often steal titles from bob dylan
a tangled up in blue and it's about
practicing doing zen practice and reckoning with depression
ah and
i have been having a difficult time of late for reasons some of which i think are known to me
some of which are definitely not known to me and some of which i may be mistaken about ah
no i might be undertaken about the ones that are the reasons that i think i know
but as long as i can remember
i've had to experience this kind of difficulty or this kind of suffering ah
and
want to talk a little bit about my experience in my practice
i've realized when i was a
i became aware of having to deal with depression when i was about thirteen and it was a time when my parents were divorcing and when i was going through a i was having a permit for which meant very little to me except
i had to show up for it and i had to go to hebrew school lot
and one who things about about that i went to a private school and so in order to go to hebrew school i had to get out early on fridays and take a bus and go to hebrew school and that i would go home but after his bar mitzvah
food ah i kept doing that
i didn't tell my parents and i didn't tell the school
and i just kept getting out early on friday
and i would go into the town is suburban town that grew up in and and i've got the movies
after which was as actually protective
although i often got funny looks by the cashier like a fire engine school so i got a private school
so finally i i confessed
because it wasn't feeling good and ah
i have one of those for me rare mother son conversations where i told my mother what i had done and a
how i was feeling and she said oh
i think you're depressed and ah
you know she knew about this from her own experience and also she was aware of the the stresses of of having to ah
be a child of divorce in you know in nineteen fifty nine nineteen sixty and she spoke to me very gently ah and really conveyed a sense that ah
she had a feeling of what i was going through and now i had a a name for this feeling
yeah even though i had no idea what to do about it
so to skip to depressed or of the pf depressed
i began to think about writing this this piece or and i was talking with one of my dharma brothers who was also having struggling with depression and a he said this
he and this phrase that he used said really resonated with me
he said it starts with dread
and that was like
just nailed me
and so i started thinking about that and realized my experience
often i travel some of you know
and every time i travel i have to endure some passage
you know and it involves that often involves a
anywhere from three or four days to a week or more of
real displacement of you know sort of lying in a kind of top of the covers and in a distant city ah
just watching the ceiling fan turning and humming
a and ah
or
just walking through just walking down the street alone
a feeling this kind of this dread
as a kind of empty feeling inside ah and has a a real physical quality of kind of
very heavy weight on my chest and shoulders and sometimes
annoying feeling in my stomach or noida ah
and so wish to
jump out of my skin or jump out of my life ah
so that you know character of these feelings are very intense loneliness and ah
a feeling of very very deep
separation separation from others separation from myself and
if i'm not careful of a kind of sense that my life is actually always going to be like this from now on
ah
and ah
often when i'm traveling i feel
yeah i could be in someplace beautiful you in thailand or ah
someplace in asia where you know it's pretty nice and just the overpowering feeling is a wish to get on a plane right away and go home and be lying in bed watching television
which i'm rational enough to know that has she wouldn't be fun
and if i were home of not be likely to do that but that's
yeah
you know somehow that's what i imagine so sometimes they actually really carefully when it's really rough which sometimes it is i i will think through all of the necessary steps actually to get on an airplane to get a reservation and get to the airport and fly back and realize
it's within my power to do that com
and this can happen even when there's nothing objectively wrong
ah since can even be going well
ah i feel like a certain curtain has been pulled back on kind of clockwork of my own
mind body and ah
ah it's very painful to see too painful to endure
so i think millions of people suffer this way
what we yearn for is a feeling of wholeness and accomplishment
and we may yearn for that even when in fact
that maybe the circumstances of their life there's nothing incomplete about my life
there's nothing really on satisfactory about it have a happy marriage wonderful children are
community to relate to various creative projects ha
and still
this notion
is this really very deep notion of
something's missing
and despite the fact that we're often warned about gaining idea in our practice and suzuki roshi teaching in sojourner oh she's teaching ah
there's along with the rise of this feeling of depression there's also a
the rise of a of a very formless dream of self fulfillment
you know that something would complete me and ah
also the knowledge that
the terms those terms thinking about things or not
useful and they're not likely to resolve that way
so
you know i don't often talk publicly about
ah my proclivities towards depression i don't deny it either but ah
i think people down in general don't talk about it and buddhist practitioners are less likely to talk about it in many ways because ah
either we get the message are we secretly think that all these hours and weeks and years of meditation her inevitably lead to happiness right
yeah you you all are in a state of bliss right
hum so in a way to speak about depression or you know even to admit it to oneself ah it feels like a kind of embarrassment or percent of or you know
failure perhaps ah to admit it is to suggest that
of buddhist practice doesn't always work whatever work is
ha and
somehow i don't know if it's bad or good but somehow you know we also keep it quiet within cells i was talking to someone had a meeting and in a in this community and they said oh you're the last person i would think of as depressed
and ah i said well okay you know
i don't think everybody who knows me thinks that but you know i was you of that i guess i have some ability to keep it hidden
consider this story
you have a bright young man in his late twenties
he's very well educated
ha
physically healthy
he comes as all the advantages of a privileged background
ha
his mother dies when he's young and ah
he spent his whole life
in his family's house
ah he has good food ah
servants
ultimately he becomes married he gets married to a beautiful young woman from a similar background and becomes a father
ha at all of this doesn't work for him
ah he has no deep joy or happiness ah although it seems that other people are having happiness around him
so
he leaves home
ah he leaves his wife and child behind ah and he has no particular goal except to relieve himself of this kind of
fatalistic gloom that has settled over him ha
and for years he tries every trendy diet or fast ha he subscribes to every meditation method that he can find it goes to all the famous teachers
ah
and
none of us really works so he
goes ah
find himself a tree by a stream and sits down
and
ultimately just sitting there day after day he ah
he lets go
and everything
somehow he sees that everything is just fine the way it is
so obviously this is the story of a ah the buddha's life
ah
but one mike hear that
as a narrative of somebody suffering from chronic depression
ah
and i'd say aside from the fact that i'm not a prince
there are some parallels with my own life ah growing up in privilege education having all the material things that ah
one would think
ha one would want
and not knowing
what to do
because there's something eating ugly
so by all accounts the buddhist suffering fell away when he was awakened under the bodhi tree
and maybe he really did arrive at some place where he was always happy and never anxious ah that's that's or as to believe but actually
i kind of wonder
ah i just think that as an open question that ip blaspheme this but i kind of wonder ah
i will also admit that after thirty years of meditation have
at least in the course of meditation i've never seen any cosmic light shows ah or had you know
a psychedelic visions of of reality
but
things have changed
the depression that i have i still have to work with but if i look at the shape of my life my life is fine
i appreciate it for what it is
ah i don't if expected to stay
i don't set myself to stay in any one state of mind
ha
and i've also come to
ah really enjoy
just sitting down
it's a great blessing it was something that i was not able to do ah
in earlier in my life and will say that even as i have face in size and because they have faith in the people around me i saw doing zazen ah
piers elders ha
i can't say it was so blissful for like the first ten years of doing it ah
but ah
i guess i'd come to wonder
if given a propensity whether it's biological or hereditary or cormac a propensity in the direction of depression or this seventies of zazen ha
the
the very deep
ys and relief of just sitting down ah
you know sometimes i think well that may be as good as it gets for me
that may be what liberation looks like for me
there's a phrase that i love from zen master dogan ah
he says when dharma fills your body and mind
you realize that something is missing ha
that is the very incompleteness of our being
of our actions for aspirations
ah is a manifestation of buddha nature itself
ah that everything is incomplete that everything is broken to be able to come to terms with that is
actually
ah a great relief
rather than striving for completeness striving to keep things from never breaking
so
still
over the years i've tried to deal with deal with means get rid of
depression in various ways i've done a lot of
psychotherapy which was very helpful after point the acupuncture i've take in st john's wart sam eat vitamin d homeopathy ah i've been ah
on and off a small dose of prozac ah
and ah
the relief from any of these things ah seems only to be
temporary
so i returned what i trust
ah
i trust to things
i trust is awesome
because i've found it to be reliable and
something that i can do any moment
and i trust friendship
and i don't think that the two are unrelated
meditation is not a cure
but if i can sit down in a quiet space and follow my breath
that way of darkness of that cloud generally lifts at least for the time i'm sitting and sitting was not possible on take a long walk
he's a way this is actually
by intention bridging see
internal disconnect if if you know what i mean
ah
it means these kinds of activities allow me to be friendly towards myself
so this power of friendship multiplies when it's extended beyond
oneself from found myself ah
i tried to keep in mind
ah
the famous epigraph to e m forster's novel howards end
where he says only connect
homely connect
so in the really difficult moments when i feel least able to do this i know that is necessary and true
i've done this you know i can meet gli in that
proverbial actual hotel room ah
far away and i know that what i've gotta do is go out and find a friend
and this friendship i
for while i was reading about a alchemy
ah which is also a quest for happiness and there's a wonderful ah
the the key the pivotal ah
substance or is sometimes called and alkahest
ah which is the alchemists universal solvent
ha
if we bring this to bear on any substance in it brings forth light and energy and i think for me friendship is that
and i think there's a gift you know the gift of of depression is actually
an ability to
identify with see
and connect with
the pain that people feel
that suffering is something that i can understand
ah
i often hear from people about their feelings of isolation loneliness and of
i feel in a sense
it i mean it's curious i'm not i haven't been lonely for a long time in terms of ah the broad framework ah you know
i have this wonderful relationship with lori
and friends are
but
when people talk about this isolation i know exactly what they're talking about
i can go to that place inside myself and know that there's part of me that is like them
so i've continued to live with this set of circumstances

i have to live with it as a condition of my particular being
it i was reading as i was researching this there's current my medical research that suggests that depression is hardwired into our brains and that it actually serves an evolutionary function ah that ah
i think if you lived in a jungle ah sleekness this and hyper vigilance have some survival benefit
so ah maybe depression is a good thing
if you live in a jungle
we live in a cottage uncle ah
but
you know
buddhist practice is just about
being awake
it's not directed towards a particular goal even the goal is survival
ah

if i'm not able to avoid these difficult circumstances
ah that may be as it is but the question is
can i turn these circumstances can i turn the depression for will i allow it to turn me
ah
again and again the buddha in his own life showed us how to do this
each event of his weakened life which included illness and injury temptation betrayal loss
each of those events was an occasion for him to learn
and to actually share his understanding
he didn't try necessarily to change or avoid external conditions
but he wasn't pushed around by his circumstances either
he lived in community with his friends
and he turned towards suffering
so the things of our life
our
always rolling
a change is always happening
i see this in the good times i see this in the hard times
ha
my choices can i connect with them or do i want to push them away
with that kind of understanding life seems to be a fortunate action accident site fortunate accident even when it seems like it's not going so good
i'm alive you're alive
so
however unlikely it seems change is on its way

so this heart of zazen his heart of buddhist practice
ha
it may be
simultaneous the a matter of face had a matter of activity
even in a dark night when face seems in short supply
my hand my friends
people i'm close to the people i know the people i love really helped me through the night
they helped me through night and day
ah
with it's depression of whether it's joy
there's really only one whole life that we're living
and however feels
have less where i want to live
so i think that's where i will end for today and god
we have a little time for question and answer or comment in i think i'll do a q and a a
during turn twenty as well
people want to come back here can talk but if you everything now to ask her share
yeah
i've experienced yet and that's
you think the necessary drennan a pitcher thinking is
a free
pretty close but i think that the you know for me that one of the elements of future seeking is a kind of supposition that i'm always gonna be like this
and what i the reality i'm experiencing is going to persist so it may not be the future in in a kind of
specific details about what's going to happen but just that how i feel so powerful and negative fat huh
being otherwise
jackie thank you very much i really appreciate this talk and
content or less including sandy
ah
and several things came to my mind
i got this
irrepressible image of buddha figure saying elevator baby tonight that have occurred is another building so
and something you said you're you think that you're a little frame next of kin on wall and it's a beta ray club and it says to play a wrong note is insignificant to play without passion is an inexcusable
oil
which i felt was worth remembering but like questions or value of friendship i think is unquestionable
what you do if you're not sure that people who spend time with you
ah i think
i would investigate why i feel that way
including the possibility that
that they may actually have a reason
you know and there might be something that you could do about it is conceivable
there's all kinds of causes and conditions but this is i think very much about
a
a sermon by martin is the king jr
called loving your enemies where he he tossed he says the first thing you should do is investigate yourself you know he talks about have enemies and nessa hope we're talking about here but
you should investigate yourself to see if there's something
you might have responsibility for that has caused that so that's a place to start
and then two hundred you to also understand the whole circumstance of your relationship of the other person's life you know but there's no easy fixes it
some people don't have friends
which is
dragic but ah
this is what we're doing here were you know we don't come here because you know
we are not people generally don't come to the zen center drawn by friendship friendships developed they come because they're drawn by their relationship to suffering
and that the buddha said i know i teach suffering in the end of suffering well that sounds pretty good and here we are in a roomful of people who ah
are motivated by that and we find we have
we cannot find we have a lot in common
yeah
thank you very much for sharing
it's difficult to ship to hear thing thank you
we're not here you respond to that question about being famous which and they just into article sufficient

i sometimes call it a fear themes of the conviction that unacceptable right
and
and i'll tell you the process she named first pushes check it out when you joined the pits change
but i know it for me that hair which will suggest a very often in jasper just shape of people can say have your arena
i found that hat in itself to even go there are news
police were actually is what she's learned your lesson
that's a good place to start so on if i start with kind to fix ourselves so acceptable that other people and last year because i'm starting times that i'm not okay and that's why i learnt when the smoke so to unlearn their to find my in the refuge in some
part of that stuff which i mean
this is really and truly okay and that's for your nature that's what the hearings community coming to understand myself and accept myself except what is i mean yeah old journey
this what makes it hospital for me from magic as other people might be the same path and ready to be hunky you met changes any yeah i think you're pointing to something that
i
left out in the comment cade that the
at the core
is the cultivation of unconditional love
ah that does but but
the tricky thing is the word cultivation
ah it's not a given
it's something cultivation in a sense means to uncover what's already there to allow that to to allow that seed
inequality which is there to to create the conditions for it to grow and flower ah and you know often the
in the buddhist terms of greed the the poisons of greed hatred and delusion ah some in some contexts they're seen as coverings
so the cultivation of that is to create the ground within which that can arise and that's gonna be the if even if one does self investigation ah
it is it needs to have a routine that
maybe one more and the more and get laura thank you so much i wonder what you think it is about judaism brings so many wonderful people to buddhism tibetan matter out that's actually a so hard for me are to i have i've thought about this lot
i've also thought about of
why there's some a really good jewish planet bluegrass musicians not unrelated to me which is
i don't know to what extent it's genetic but i do know to what extent ah the message of suffering
of historical suffering was taught to me very very clearly
ah and ah
i don't think that's so unusual for produce i think there are other groups that also experienced that so ah
you know
two
encounter a pass this you know or a teacher that says well i teach about suffering suffering oh good i know but that right that's that's a big problem for me
and the end suffering will that sounds really good so it's it's a very direct route and for me it was a lot it's a lot more direct route insulet more clear than what i than what i found
in jewish tradition at the same time i would say if i'd had ah
if i had had his fine teachers
ah in the jewish tradition has i very quickly encountered here in in the buddhist tradition not just here
you know that may have been a pass but i didn't
sony way