I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Good afternoon, everyone.

[01:29]

This morning, I talked about Dogen Zenji's teaching of the identity action. And I think Ryokan Beat, when he played with children, was a very good example of identity action. But Ryokan himself didn't say he was practicing identity action, I think. I'm pretty sure that was his natural action. He didn't think, this is my practice so I have to do it. If he think in that way, that is not identity action actually. So it's very difficult to find a boundary between practice and natural actions. So I think playing with children, whenever he met with children on his way doing takuhatsu was kind of a natural action for him.

[02:44]

But I also have a question. Was it really a natural thing for him? I mean, I think since he lived and practiced in that way, that was natural action for him. But was it really kind of his personality even since he was born? And there's some question about this. I mean, there are some stories from his childhood. And one of the anecdotes was that he was very much a shy person and very quiet. And he liked reading, reading books very much. So even when they had a festival, you know, in Japan there are festivals in the

[03:48]

a few times a year, especially the big festivals, but in the summer and in the fall. And then they had a festival, they had a festival or matsuri, they had the festival at a shrine, Shinto shrine. So that was a time for fun. All children went to the festival to have an exciting time. But it is said that Ryokan didn't want to go. stayed in his room and reading book. So his mother said, you should go to the festival. And he was a good boy. So he said, yes, I will go. But it said when his mother later, his mother went to the entrance of the house, he was reading the book with the light of the gate.

[04:54]

So he, as his personality from his birth, he was not such a, how can I say, social type of person. And even, I think here is a poem, even later he became the master and While he was living in this way, I think it's later times in his life, he wrote one waka poem. Waka is a very short poem. Waka is a little bit longer than haiku, but still short. Haiku only has 17 syllables, but waka has 31. 14 more syllables, and in Japanese this waka is as follows.

[05:59]

世の中に混じらぬとにはあらねども 一人遊びぞ我は勝される This is his waka poem, and translation in this book is, it's not that I don't care to mingle with others, only that I am better at amusing myself. I don't like this expression, amusing myself. I don't think he was amusing himself. But what he said is, you know, having fun with himself, alone. So I think as a personality, you know, he was not good at playing with children.

[07:00]

from his childhood. But I think in the process of his practice, I think he was transformed in some way. When I was a kid, I was like Ryokan. I was not good at playing with other children, but I, in a corner of a classroom, I was reading books, very quiet and shy person. So it's, to me, it is amazing, you know, to sit in front of the public and talk in English. I couldn't imagine when I was a child, I could speak in front of the public and talk about something very important to me. I think I was that kind of person until I practiced Apanthaji.

[08:08]

Whenever possible, I hid myself and read books. But when I started to practice Atvan Taiji, you know, we had to be together with other people 24 hours, and two of us share one room, so there's no privacy at all, 24 hours. So I found there's no place to hide myself. It was very difficult but helpful to me to open myself to other people and feel, you know, it's okay to show myself. Until then, to be shy means I don't want to expose who I really am to others.

[09:12]

I want to hide in order to feel secure. But when we live in one room for 24 hours, even when we are sleeping, we are together with other practitioners. I had really nothing to be hidden and nowhere to hide. That practice was really difficult but helpful to me to live together with other people. Without that kind of practice, I think I was still a shy and quiet person, and I didn't want to expose my incompleteness to other people. But now I can do it. So I'm really grateful for this. And I think the same kind of transformation happened in the process of his practice in Ryokan.

[10:19]

So when he prayed with children, that was a very natural thing, I think, but that was not really natural since his birth as a karmic nature. So he was transformed through his spiritual practice. So, what is the border between practice and natural action is not really clear. You know, we have to, from this side, we have to make effort to open myself to others. And it's sometimes very difficult. But from other side, you know, There's no place to hide, even I try to hide, you know, it's like exposed actually. To see that reality as, you know, in Dogen's teaching, nothing is hidden.

[11:23]

Even I tried to hide, it's not really hidden, it's exposed. To understand this, or not understand, but to awaken to this reality was really helpful to me, and that occurred to me in the community practice. Anyway, I think that is one of the important points to consider. The fact is the border between our personal effort and also the, in Uchiyama Roshi's expression, life force, deeper than my personal effort. And there's no clear distinction between these two. Anyway, so now we are going to talk about Ryokan's poems on playing with children. Before starting to talk The poems in the handout is several, I think eight Chinese poems about playing with children.

[12:39]

But before starting to read these Chinese poems, first I'd like to introduce some anecdotes. about his praying with children. And next, I'd like to introduce a few other Waka poems about praying with children. Then I start to read these Chinese poems. If you have this book, Great Fool, I think this, for now, this is the best book on Ryokan, including his biography and some essays about his life and translation of his poems and letters, his poems, both Chinese and Japanese. Within this book, there's a section that is entitled, Curious Accounts of the Zen Master Ryokan.

[13:54]

This was a collection of anecdotes of the Ryokan, written by, this person's name is Keira Yoshishige. And this person was one of the children who played with Ryokan. And it said when Ryokan died, this person was about 20 years old. So he had a clear memory about Ryokan when he was a child. And I think 15 or 20 years after Ryokan's death, so he was already a mature person, he wrote his memories about Ryokan. So he remembered what he saw and what he talked with Ryokan. So this was a very interesting record of Ryokan's life. Part of this writing, there is Ryokan's anecdote with the children.

[15:03]

It says, it was Well, by the way, before that, I'd like to one line from this writing, it said, the master always said, I hate entertaining guests. So he was not really, I hate entertaining guests. So he was comfortable to be alone as a personality. So his playing with children was, I think, a natural activity, and yet not really 100% natural. So what is the border? We don't know. And he said, it said, the master was always joining the village children in their games, playing ball,

[16:08]

matching playing stones and picking spring vegetables. When the master passed the Jizo-do post station, the children would rush after him. First, they would shout at him, Master Ryokan, wankan, This kan is a name of the monetary unit to count the money, like a dollar, a cent dollar, or something like that. So one kan is a certain amount of money. Then the master would recoil, recoil, bending back in alarm. Next, they would shout, Master Ryokan, two cans, you know, twice as much money, causing the master to bend back still further.

[17:24]

So, when a child shouts, one can, Let's say that is like $100. Ryokan was surprised and moved his body like this. And the kid said two cans were like $200. Caused the master to bend back still further. As they continued in this way, increasing the amount from two count to three and so on. The master would bend back further and further until he would nearly lose his balance and fall down. At which point, the children would burst into pearls of delighted laughter.

[18:29]

So by seeing Ryokan fell down, children are laughing. That is how children play with Ryokan. So Ryokan was like a toy for children. and this person wrote about this anecdote. When I was a child, so he was one of the child children, when I was a child, the superintendent of the post station, Tomitori Kurata, the person's name, visited our house. As it happened, the master was also staying there. So Ryokan was at this person's house, and this person, Kurata, visited his house. And then Ryokan said to that person, The children of your town are really little rascals."

[19:36]

So Ryokan was complaining about those children. Don't let them do that to me anymore. So he was asking to let the children of his town not to do that anymore. I'm old. and it's getting awfully hard for me. Then I was sitting, I mean the person who writes these anecdotes, I was sitting beside them and remarked to the master. So when he was a child, he talked to Ryokan, why do you put up with all this to play with them. Why don't you just stop it?" Then the master replied, I can't just stop what I have been doing for years.

[20:44]

So he has been this trick for many years. So he said, I cannot stop it. And, excuse me, The story behind this was that one year, some people held an auction near the post station, and the master came by to watch, so they had some auction. I don't know what kind of auction, but when they had the auction, Ryokan was accidentally there. Came by to watch. One of the vendors shouted a price at him so loudly that the master recoiled in alarm, bending all the way back. And ever since, the local children would pester him to play this game.

[21:52]

So since then, each time, every time Ryokan went to that town, the children in that town played with Ryokan this way. And Ryokan couldn't stop it. Even though he didn't like it. Especially when he was very old. So, we can see, it's not really he did it because he liked it, even though he didn't like it, but somehow he couldn't stop it. There is something, it's not simply 100% thing. There are two sides, he didn't like it, but he couldn't stop it. This is, I think, bodhisattva practice. And we feel the same thing, you know, especially when, for example, I was asked to give a talk in English.

[23:02]

I'm not always comfortable, but somehow I cannot say no. That is my problem. But, you know, there's a border, but there's no border. Somehow, I'm not always want to, you know, give Dharma talk, but I, on the other side, I cannot say no. Both are from myself. Anyway, that is one of the good koans for all of us as a bodhisattva practitioner. And another anecdote of Ryokan from this writing, wherever the master went, he would join the children in their games.

[24:06]

When praying with the children of a certain village, the master would always pretend to be dead and lie down by the side of the Lord. So he just lie down and pretend to be dead for the children. The children would cover the master with grass and leaves and pray that they were bearing him laughing with delight. So children, you know, enjoying to put the grass and leaves on this dead person. One day, a crafty child came, and as soon as the master began to pray dead, squeezed the master's nostrils. his fingers, squeeze his master's nostrils shut with his fingers.

[25:15]

It's like a koan. Is it alive or dead? Finally the master could stand it no longer and suddenly revived. But the master seems to have done all this as part of his practice of breath control. I'm not sure if this is true or not. And next one is not necessarily with children, but it might be interesting or important to understand Ryokan's, not the personality, but so-called dignified conduct. Next one, it says, the master

[26:19]

Good to go. Well, I can't find it. Anyway, so I'd like to introduce a few of the waka poems about playing with children. If you have this book, it's appeared in page 203, the section of waka, poems in Japanese.

[27:24]

The first one is a playing ball. Let me first read in Japanese. Kono sato ni temari tsukitsutsu kodomora to, asobu harubi wa kurezu tomo yoshi. English translation is, Playing ball with the children in this village. Spring day, never let the shadows fall. I don't think I have to explain this. So he was just playing bouncing balls with children in the spring day. And when the sun set, that was a time, you know, children had to go back home. So they had to stop, you know, playing.

[28:26]

So Ryokan wish the sun doesn't set. So that means he wants to play with children forever. And the next one in Japanese. 道延べに積みつつ蜂の子を 忘れてぞ乞し憐れ蜂の子 Hachinoko is a begging bowl, or oryoki bowl, ryokan used for begging. English translation is, Oh, my poor begging bowl. I left it behind, picking violets by the roadside. So he was picking violets on the roadside also in the spring day with children.

[29:30]

And he was so observant to this, you know, playing with children. So he forget where he put the oryoki ball and it get dark. And Ryokan continued to find the ball because he loved this Oryoki ball, but he couldn't. So he was very disappointed and sad. And at that time, someone found Ryokan's Oryoki ball and brought it back to him. That was the time he wrote this waka poem. So, oh my poor begging ball, so he was talking to his own ball. Oh my poor begging ball, I left it behind, picking violets by the roadside.

[30:34]

Again, there's no explanation necessary. And next one. Ii kouto waga koshi kado mo haru no no ni, sumire tsumitsutsu toki wo henikeri. English translation is, I was on my way to beg. But passing by a spring field, spent the whole day picking violets. So he forget about begging. Again, he picked the violet flowers on the roadside with children. Entire day. So he didn't beg at all. Again, we don't need to explain this poem.

[31:39]

Waka and haiku also, the main point of waka or haiku, these short poems, is not expressing the idea, but express what we see or what we did. So there's no, any idea or thinking is there. This is just what he did and he felt, not what he thought. That is the important nature of waka or haiku poems. Let's see. This one is one of the most popular a well-known waka poem by Ryokan. Excuse me. In Japanese, Hachinoko ni sumire tampopo kokimazete, miyo no hodoke ni tatematsu ritena.

[32:53]

Hachinoko ni sumire tampopo kokimazete, miyo no hodoke ni tatematsu ritena. I think the sound is very beautiful. And English translation is, in my begging bowl, violets and daisies mixed together. Let's make an offering to all the Buddhas in the three worlds. so again he was picking violets and in this English translation it said daisies but Ryokan wrote it was not a daisy so translator changed the name of the flower but Ryokan wrote was Tampopo, Sumire and Tampopo.

[33:55]

Do you know Tampopo? Dendelion, yes. So, Violet and Dendelion. Probably because this name was too long for within this short poem, so that's why maybe, that's why the translator changed the name. And that name is not so poetic. Anyway, but I think this poem has very deep meaning, at least to me. You know, oyoki bowl or begging bowl is a bowl we receive the offering. And probably people who have no experience of begging may for them kind of difficult to understand, but when we, you know, beg, do our practice or support our practice by begging, sometimes, you know, at least in my case, I felt kind of vulnerable and also I feel I'm not good for anything.

[35:19]

And sometimes I feel guilty. Why I do this? Instead of doing some other kind of work in order to make some income to support my practice. Sometimes I had a question, you know, to the practice or the lifestyle of a Buddhist monk is being free from clinging or greedy. And that is why we give up, you know, any kind of job and live based on begging. That means rely on other people in the society. And sometimes I feel, you know, I am practicing for the sake of Dharma, but sometimes I feel this is just what I want to do.

[36:24]

You know, we cannot tell a clear distinction between this is my practice as a Buddhist priest, and I'm doing this simply because I want to do this, because I'm lazy. I don't want to work. These two are sometimes, or almost always, both are there with me. And sometimes, especially when I did takuhatsu by myself, when I did takuhatsu with other co-practitioners, I have never had this kind of problem. because I knew, you know, this is for the sake of Dharma. I don't use any money receiving from Takahatsu for myself. We put all the donation to temple, what do you call, money box.

[37:33]

So there's nothing personal. But when I live by myself and support my practice by myself, being by Takahatsu, that boundary is not clear. So I'm not sure, sometimes I just enjoy this lazy life. And other times, this is for the sake of Dharma, of course. When I felt, you know, I'm a good-for-nothing person, I just do this to live a lazy life. At that time, you know, I think a few times I stopped doing takuhatsu and go back where I lived. When we felt in that way, you know, this, I mean, Ryokan might feel the same thing.

[38:36]

And so, this Oryoki bowl is a bowl to receive offerings. And we usually, as a begging monk, we usually receive donation, offering from other people. but when Ryokan prays with kids and picking the flowers in the field and put them in the Oryoki, begging bowl, and he offer to the Buddha, offer those flowers to the Buddha. So the begging bowl Ryokan use to receive donation is a bowl to make offering to the Buddha. And I had the same feeling and I read this poem.

[39:40]

I was really kind of saved with this poem. That means although I receive offerings and this receiving donation or offering itself is an offering. That means by doing takuhatsu I offer the opportunity for those people to make donation. So if I spend that money or donation for my own personal sake, ideally, you know, against the Dharma. But as far as I spend this money for the sake of Dharma, then not only I receive the donation, but this is also offering.

[40:44]

That is what I studied from this Waka poem of Ryokan. So the Oryoki to receive donation is also Oryoki to make offerings to all Buddhas in three times. And then I understood that, I really understood the meaning of, while we do Oryoki meals, I think lunchtime, we receive the rice to the first bowl and we make a tiny bit of offering. And this is the meaning, you know. So that meaning of, I think, same thing. That means this person is not a final place of this movement, of dāna, or offerings.

[41:47]

Even though we receive and we nourish this body and mind to continue our practice, still we try to offer something, even a little bit amount to other living beings. So to make this a kind of a circulate, I think is important. And when we receive offerings or donation, important point is to save that donation within my territory, but keep it circulating, I think is important. That is how we receive this thing or monetary donation as Dharma. Dharma means no attachment. So to me this poem, waka poem, was really important.

[42:51]

Anyway, so this is one of the poems about his playing with children. Now I think we are ready to read his waka poem. If you have this great full book, these poems are from page 132. In this handout, I wrote the Chinese, original Chinese lines. and English translation in this book, and I put meanings of each Chinese character. I hope it helps. Let me read the first poem.

[43:57]

Early spring. The landscape is tinged with the first fresh hints of green. Now I take my wooden begging bowl and wander carefree through town. The moment the children see me, they scamper off grief-free to bring their friends. They are waiting for me at the temple gate. tugging from all sides so I can barely walk. I leave my bowl on a white rock, hang my pilgrim's bag on a pine tree branch. First, we dwell with a blaze of grass.

[45:02]

Then we play ball. While I bounce the ball, they sing the song. Then I sing the song and they bounce the ball. Caught up in the excitement of the game, we forgot completely about the time. Passersby turn and question me. Why are you carrying on like this? I just shake my head without answering. Even if I were able to say something, how could I explain? Do you really want to know the meaning of it all? This is it. This is it. This is entire poem.

[46:06]

So I read from the beginning. The first line is early spring. But in the original Chinese, it is said, first two Chinese characters is sei you. Sei is green, blue or green. I think in this case, green. And you means the sun, the sunlight. And it also means young, you know, yin and yang, it's yang. In the winter, yin is stronger and yang is hidden. But from the spring and summer, yang becomes stronger and yin is hidden.

[47:15]

That is basic idea of Chinese people's idea, yin and yang. you know, work together. They are opposites but they work together. So, summer from the spring and summer is called yan, and from fall to winter is called in, so in and yan. So here he used green yan, that means in the very beginning of the spring, and the next three characters say beginning of the second month. ni-gatsu hajime, beginning of the second month. This is not February in solar calendar, but this is second month in the lunar calendar. In the lunar calendar, new year is around the beginning of February.

[48:19]

I think Chinese people still follow the lunar calendar to celebrate new year that is around February 10th. So beginning of the second month means beginning of March in solar calendar. So in Japan that was a time snow has snow has already melted and people could see new green fresh sprout of grasses and new bud on the trees. Especially that was the time Plum Blossom start to bloom. That is the how can I say, a feeling we can read from these five Chinese characters.

[49:22]

But early spring, maybe you can feel that way, but people live in California. It doesn't mean anything. Because they had to go through a very long, dark, cold winter. you know, this beginning of spring has really a refreshment. So it has really a deep influence to people's activity and people's feeling, emotion. So during, excuse me, during winter, I think ryokan couldn't go to the dark huts because it had too much snow. So probably this was the first time he went out to the dark huts in that year, in that spring. So he was very kind of happy and exciting.

[50:27]

And second line, the landscape is tinged with the first fresh hints of green. Original Chinese, the first two is the color of things. The color of things is a little bit refreshed, new and fresh. so people are really happy and try become active and their mind is become busy what to do. In the early spring, especially in the farming village, they start to work for preparation of planting rice. Now, I take my wooden begging bowl. So that was the time he started to beg.

[51:33]

And this word for begging bowl is ha-u. And Dogen Zenji wrote one chapter of Shokugendo entitled Ha-u. That means Oryoki or begging bowl. So he left his hermitage holding, you know, Oryokiboru. Not holding, but put the Oryokiboru in the begging bag and walked to the town. And wandered carefree through town. So he was walking very actively and started to beg. at the town, then the moment that children see me, so he was just starting to beg in the town.

[52:39]

Before he start to do begging, children found him. And that's the end of his day of begging. The moment the children see me, they scamper off grief-free to bring their friend. So probably one or two children found Ryokan was walking toward the town. Those children ran around entire town and said Ryokan was coming. So when Ryokan arrived at the entrance of the town, you know, all the children were waiting for him.

[53:46]

That was the image of the scenery. They scamped off briefly to bring their friends. They are waiting for me at the temple gate. Temple compound is one of the best places for children to pray. Buddhist temple compound or Shinto shrine or by the roadside of Ewa and also a rice paddy. were the kingdom or territory of children. They are playing with those places. Until I was a kid, the same thing continued. But when I was a teenager, children could not play on the street anymore because it's dangerous.

[54:50]

or too many cars and traffic. So now it's completely different, but until about 50 years ago, same thing happened. I grew up in a small town between Kyoto and Osaka, still around until I was 10 years old. We had many rice paddies, and we prayed at a Shinto shrine or Buddhist temples, and there are many places. we can kind of adventure. At that time, the population of the town was about 30,000. But when I was a high school student, the population became 10 times as much, 300,000 or so, because of the economic growth.

[55:57]

Almost all the rice paddy was covered with dirt and became a factory or a housing. And that was the time, you know, the Shinkansen, the bullet train, or the road. Railroad was constructed and the highway between Osaka and Tokyo was built. That was around when I was a teenager. So around that time, that was around 1970, that area of Japan was completely changed. And I was really sad. So people said that was development. But I couldn't believe that. You know, all good things and birds and fish and insects all lost their place. And children lost their place to play.

[57:01]

Anyway, so they are waiting for me at the temple gate. and tugging from all sides so I can barely walk. So kids grasp his robes and sleeves and walk with him, but he couldn't, so he couldn't walk. So I leave my ball on a white rock probably in the temple ground. There was a rock and a pine tree. There are often, for almost every temple, we can find a garden rock and a pine tree. So I leave my bowl on the white rock and hang my pilgrim's bag.

[58:07]

We call this a zudabukuro. on a pine tree branch. First, we dwell with blades of grass. Duel with blade of grass is, you know, one person hold one blade of grass and another person hold another grass and I put it like this and pull it and try which one break. And one whose grass does not break was a winner, that kind of very simple play. But they said, I mean, Ryokan said 100 grass means they continue to play this, you know, very simple, you know, play for hundreds of times with probably with all the children and they didn't get bored.

[59:14]

It's very different from children today. They play with computer games. It's not so simple. At least I cannot do it. So probably Ryokan had a problem when he is alive now. He didn't know how to play with children. and children play in their rooms, not outside. I think that is a problem. So they play by themselves, not much communication or interaction with other children. And this expression, hundred grass, is a kind of a common expression in Zen literature. Hundred grass means each and every beings appeared in some koan stories.

[60:22]

That also refer to each and every beings, like a hundred. blaze of grass are nothing other than the mind or intention of bodhidharma came from the West. That was the usage of this word, hundred grass, in Zen text. So Ryokan is writing about very simple, you know, playing with kids, but he is also probably writing some teaching of Zen. And next, then we play ball. This Japanese play ball is not like a game. It's kind of a game, but just bouncing the ball.

[61:25]

as many times as possible and by singing the song of counting the number from one to probably ten. So it's also a very simple game. It's not a game of win or lose. Then we play ball. While I bounce the ball, they sing the song. So when Ryokan was bouncing the ball, he said, Ryokan was very good at bouncing balls. And in later poems, he said, he always put one or two balls in his sleeve to play with children. And he said he was really good at bouncing balls. So he really enjoyed it. So when I bounce the ball, they sing the song.

[62:32]

And then I sing the song and they bounce the ball. Caught up in the excitement of the game. In the original Chinese poem, it said, just coming and going, coming, and also going. Coming and going. Repeating. This means repeating. There's no word for excitement. They, of course, they didn't get bored, but it doesn't say exciting. But he just, they just enjoyed, you know, someone sing the song and someone bounce the ball. It's a very simple prayer. We forget completely about the time.

[63:37]

And so, Ryokan, from the very beginning, when he tried to start begging, that was probably around 9 or 10 in the morning. until probably, maybe even getting dark, they continue to pray in this way. So, Ryokan was just praying with kids all day long. So, passers-by, village people, you know, looking, you know, this strange monk is praying with children all day, and he looks very happy. So some of them may ask a question. But in the original, it said, passers-by or passengers look at me and laugh.

[64:42]

But in English translation, there's no laughing. So laughing means the person who question was also happy. So this is not like a policeman give a question to some strangers. But, you know, the person was already knew this was Ryokan and he was enjoying playing with children. And yet, you know, some of them asked Ryokan, Why are you carrying on like this? Why are you playing like this?" Then Ryokan Right? I just shake my head without answering. So, shake my head.

[65:46]

He just, what he wrote in Chinese is lower his head. Not shaking like this, but he lowered his face, means he saw the ground. Instead of looking at the person's face, the questioner's face, but he looked down. because he had nothing to say. So he couldn't say anything. Then, even if I were able to say something, how could I explain? So he couldn't explain why he was playing with children in this way all day long. forget his job of, you know, begging. First two Chinese characters in this line, first is dou and second is toku.

[66:55]

This is an important expression, especially in Dogen Zenji's writing. That is dou toku. Dou toku is being able to say something. You know, famous teaching of Zen is shut up your mouth and do it. That means be quiet and do it. Just do it. You know, that... You know, Katagiri Dai Ninroshi's first book is entitled, Returning to Silence. So often our teaching of Zen practices return to the silence. That means, say nothing, but do it. But the second book of Katagi Roshi is, you have to say something. So, when we return to silence and we experience it, we have to say something about that experience.

[67:56]

That is called dōtoku in Dogen Zenji's teaching. And Dogen said, unless we have some expression of that experience within just doing, we don't really understand this practice of just doing. So in Dogen Zenji's teaching, just do it, close our mouth and express using words. It is both very important. That is two sides of his teaching and our practice. We have to do it using our body and mind, but we have to express it using words. Both are important. So by saying, I cannot say anything. That is, at least this time, Ryokan's expression of his experience.

[69:04]

I cannot say anything. And this is the same as, you know, what Nangak said in his conversation with his teacher, Huinan, or the six ancestors. When first Nangaku visited Sixth Ancestor, Sixth Ancestor asked Nangaku, where are you from? And Nangaku answered, I came from certain place. Then, excuse me, then Sixth Ancestor asked again, what is it that does come? What is it that does come? That means, what is this five skandhas that came in that way? And Nanga couldn't understand the meaning of this question. So he closed his mouth, he shut up and practiced with Sixth Ancestor for eight years.

[70:10]

And after eight years of practice, the story said first he understood the meaning of this question. So he visited the Sixth Ancestor and said, excuse me, and said, I first understood what you asked me when I first came. And Huenen asked, how did you understand? And Mangak said, what did he say? In English, you know? Yeah, yes. In Chinese, it's said, if I say something about that thing, that one thing, I lose it, or I don't hit the mark.

[71:21]

Whatever I say is wrong. That means I cannot say anything about that thing that does come. So that was his answer. And when we are familiar with Zen literature, what Ryokan is saying here is the same thing. You know, I brought up a question, what is the boundary between natural activity and bodhisattva practice? even though those two sides are completely included within this one action of Ryokan's playing with children. But if someone asks, what is this? Is this just, are you just enjoying with children entire day? Or is this your practice?

[72:24]

Is this your Bodhisattva practice? And I think this is his question. He couldn't say anything. Whichever answer he gave, that was a mistake. That was a mistake. So he could just say just as it is. So even if I were able to say, this were able to say is translation dōtoku. If I have some dōtoku, some expression to explain what I'm doing with children for, you know, all day long. I can, you know, analyze which part is my, you know, enjoying myself, and which part is practice for the sake of children. I don't know.

[73:26]

What's his answer, please? Also, we named Guntman Mahaprabhu. He pushed him further. He said, well... Is there practice and enlightenment? Yeah. So yeah, Hinan asked another question. If so, if you can't say anything, is there any practice and realization or practice and verification? Then Nangaku said, practice and verification or practice slash verification as one word, as a compound. because in Dogen's writings these two are one. So what Nangak said was, we cannot say there is no practice slash enlightenment or verification.

[74:28]

This practice verification cannot be defiled. and defilement means if we make separation between this side and that side and make choice this or that or we separate practice and enlightenment or realization and if I say I practice this in order to get that realization or enlightenment. That is refinement. Because we do something for the sake of something to satisfy my desire to get that desirable thing named enlightenment. So this practice realization without defilement is also a very important expression in Dogenzen teaching.

[75:31]

This is a source of his expression of just sitting, or shikan tada. Shikan tada, just sitting, means this practice is not a method to get any desirable result. But within this just sitting, the result is already there. That is what practice and verification are one in that very basic teaching of Dogen Zenji. That is what Shikantaza means, just sit for this moment. You know, this moment is complete moment. It's not, how can I say, a step to the next moment. This is a complete, perfect moment. So if we think this is a step to the next step, then we lose sight of completeness of this moment.

[76:38]

So moment by moment, our practice should be complete. That is the meaning of just sitting. So just, usually just sitting is, or Shikantada is used to, as a name of our practice, sitting without koan, or without very... visualization or using mantra or those things. But that is not really what this just sitting means in Dogen Zenji's teaching. So just sitting is the final answer for Dogen Zenji's teaching. What is this that does come? You know, just right now, right here, it's here. That's all. Well, our next sentence is, do you really want to know the meaning of it all?

[77:45]

And Ryokan said, this is it. This is it. This is same as just sit in Dogen's teaching. This is it. And also this is it came from another koan story. I think about Tozan Ryokai, the founder of Chinese Sotozen school, one of the five of Chinese school, and his teacher, Ungan Donjo. I think at that time, Ungan Donjo was already a very old person. And Tozan asked Ungan, after your death, I think he said, a hundred years after your death, if someone asks, did you really meet with Ungan or not, then what I shall say about you. And Wungan said, tada kore kore, or just it is, just it is.

[78:59]

So there's no way to explain who this person was. Just as it is, just this is, just this is. So, you know, in this poem, Ryokan just describes, you know, his, you know, praying with children all day long and forget about his practice of begging. But he also expressed, you know, this truth or reality of right now.

[79:33]

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