Well, welcome. I just want to say that I'm really happy about the way we've been holding our practice these last couple of months, doing whatever we can to make it work together. I can't say how pleased I am that this is the test. When all of your dependencies are over or in the background, how do you practice? So I think we're doing really well, and we're learning how to do that. And actually, every day is a different way of dealing with our new ways of practicing. And so I really want you to feel that I recognize the effort that everybody's making,

[01:12]

that we're holding together really well. So given that, Susan, you being first, please ask a question if you have something to say. Sojin Roshi. There's always not knowing. Every day there's not knowing. But right now, we're more acutely aware of knowing that we don't know somehow. So how do we practice with that new understanding of not knowing? Well, you know, not knowing means that you meet every moment in a fresh way.

[02:17]

You meet every circumstance in a fresh way. It's called nothing held in the bottom of the heart. Without preconceptions, even though you know many things and we have a lot of information, still to meet everything with nothing at the bottom of the heart and see everything just as it is. This is called the great round mirror wisdom. This is how we practice the great round mirror wisdom in our life. It's not just a term or some intellectual idea that somebody thought up. It kind of is, but it's a mirror reflecting everything just as it is without any interference. So this is our practice, to see everything just as it is, which is really hard

[03:24]

because we always have some preconception about somebody or whatever we meet. And in many ways, that's important. All those things are important. But fundamentally, what's most important is how to meet everything without preconceptions. It's hard to do. In Zazen, we can meet everything without preconceptions. It's much harder when we're facing our daily life, a busy life. But even so, it's possible. So this is what we call our practice, to see everything, to make it possible to get beyond our preconceptions and see everything new on each moment.

[04:27]

And what do we rely on? Nothing. I knew you were going to say that. I know. We give ourselves over to our mother, and our mother will take care of us. You know, when we're born, or when we enter the world of breath and water, we're totally helpless. And what do we rely on? We rely on our mothers, or whatever serves as our mother. And as we grow up, as we age, we rely on various other things besides our mother. But actually, whatever we rely on is our mother.

[05:36]

What do you think about it? So our mother takes various forms. Takes the form of food, drink, sleep, activity, ideas, and so forth. And we depend on those things. And then we live a certain amount of years, and if we know what practice is, we turn ourselves over to—it's called—faith is called our mother. When we say, I have great faith, it means that we rely on our mother, which is the universe. Our mother is really the universe. The cosmic children of the universe. And we rely on that. So that's why, when we keep our mind open,

[06:41]

we let our Buddha nature, which is our mother, take over. Suzuki Roshi used to talk about that. Zazen is like putting ourselves back in our mother's arms. And this time is a kind of test, you keep saying. Yes. For what? A test to see what we will depend on. So we turn ourselves over. And then the universe, which is our mother, provides everything for us. But without that trust, it's hard to see that.

[07:53]

Because as soon as push comes to shove, we start to rely on something else. And that is a problem. When push comes to shove, we may say, oh, I rely on practice and faith and so forth. Faith and practice. But when it comes to push to shove, we reach for something else. But if you don't reach for something else, then you find yourself in not knowing. Not knowing is the highest. Because we turn it all over. And then we have this, that's called inner direction. The universe provides inner direction. Because that's what it's always done. You didn't ask to be born. You were born helpless. And then we end. It all ends.

[08:57]

So when we have that kind of trust, we have a happy ending. Hopefully. But we don't know. We don't know. We do not know. Not knowing. So to trust. People say, what do you have faith in? Just have faith. That's all. It's not in anything. Because everything is so far. You have no control over. You have some kind of control over something. But those are minor controls. Major controls we have no control over. Every day you age. You have no control over that. And we march on, march on, march on. And then finally, we don't march anymore. And then, so like, what do you cling to? What do you hold on to?

[10:01]

Nothing. It just is. It's like breathing. You're breathed. You do not breathe. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It just happens. Blood flowing through the veins is not your fault. What is your fault is talking too much. I really like what you have to say. I love your lectures. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Okay. Our next questioner is Rondi. And wait until I unmute you, Rondi, before you start. If I can find you in the list. Here you are. I don't see your pic. Ask to unmute. I don't know why it doesn't let me unmute you. It only says ask to unmute.

[11:04]

Oh, there she is. Here I am. Hi, Rondi. Hi, Sojin Roshi. Hi, Charlie. Sorry to be late. Sojin Roshi. My question is a cyclone. Can you hear me, Sojin? Yes. A cyclone, floods, locusts, earthquakes, and a pandemic. What is a life? What is a life? What is a life? It's all a life. It's all a life. It's all a life. Right now, there's a big surge in the life of locusts. Not only did they devastate Africa, now they're in India. Big ones. They're more vigorous. You know what? They would rather be alive than they wish about us.

[12:13]

And we would rather be alive than our wish about them. Who's who? Life just eats itself. This is the thing about it that we don't like. We like what we eat, but we don't like to be eaten. We like to drink, but we don't like to be drunk. Everything's eating everything else. That's the rule here. That's life. Life is what we don't like. If you want a definition of life, it's what we don't like. You're welcome. Thank you, Sojin. It's more than that. Given your question.

[13:14]

Pardon me? Given your question. Given my question, that's the answer. Yes. Thank you, Sojin. Charlie, you're up now. On deck. Excuse me. EMH iPad, would you mute yourself or Gary, would you mute? What? Residual sound duties. OK, go ahead. OK. Charlie. Thank you, Sojin. Thank you. So for doing this, I imagine this is a first. In the history of our practice. Yes. Well, it's not exactly a practice period. But I agree with you. Gary was to be the shoe.

[14:16]

So for our proposed future practice period, which would be starting. And. I feel very sorry about that. He will not be able to do that. But. What's your question? My question, Sojin, is about something you talked about many times that I really do not understand. And that is. Seeing the capacity of seeing. Does seeing include the other sense organs, hearing, touch, etc. Or not? Well, we see with our eyes. We see with our ears. But we call it hearing. And we see with our touch. But we call it touching. And we see with our nose.

[15:17]

We call it smelling. And so forth. How about our small mind? Do we see you with that? Unfortunately, yes. We see with our small mind. Which is necessary. In a dualistic way. But our mind is always in the dualistic, under dualistic control. And it's very hard to see the oneness of duality. Without discriminating. We say, I know. That's discrimination. As soon as you say, I know. You're including something and excluding something. So how does that open us to seeing? So, true seeing is no seeing. Of course.

[16:18]

Whatever we see is discriminated. That's what discrimination means. It's dividing. Discriminating. We're always discriminating. Our mind does that. As soon as we start thinking, we're discriminating. So that's why it's good to not say anything for a long time. From time to time. Not say anything. And from time to time. That's why we said Zazen. So that from time to time we don't say anything. And we don't think anything. And we're just being present with what is. I couldn't agree more with you. I've come to believe that Zazen is sort of a spiritual vacation. It's a taking a rest. Yes. Yeah. When I say true seeing is no seeing, it's not I see.

[17:24]

It's seeing sees. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Ben, you're next. I'll unmute you. OK. So, Jiroshi. I can't hear you, but I can't see you. Just a second. We'll fix that. Sure. There you are. OK. So, Jiroshi. According to my understanding, our practice is about turning towards our experience and being present in our life. But at times and repeated times in my life, I have moments where I feel quite overwhelmed and as if this human life is pretty difficult to bear.

[18:26]

And at these moments, sometimes I find myself wanting to turn away from my experience or hide or even give up. And at those times, what do I do? Keep going. Just keep going. I remember a kind of Jiroshi used to say, we have to bear the unbearable. This comes from his Japanese experience of the war. You know, the Japanese lost the war, which was the most unbearable thing that they could possibly think of. People would commit suicide, you know, rather than give up. So, it's great fortitude. Fortitude is, people say it, sometimes say, oh, you know, Zen is just. How did they say that?

[19:28]

You know, you try and make life difficult for yourself, right? Well, we don't have to try, you know, because life is difficult enough for us. But an endurance contest, that's what it was. Zen is just an endurance contest. As if that's bad. But actually, it's good. Life is an endurance contest. The request of our life is to endure until we die, right? So, it's a kind of contradiction. Life is a kind of contradiction. Where we strive as hard as we can to live, but it's all going towards dying. So, yes, it's an endurance contest, and you're in the middle of it. And we create our own problems.

[20:38]

And then we have to figure out how to endure the problems that we create for ourselves. When you don't know what to do, just keep going. Also, take a rest. Sometimes taking a rest, you know, is good. I remember when I was, you know, beginning my practice. And I had a lot of problems. And, you know, problems like, all I could do was walk around the block. You know, or just take long walks or something. Day after day, you know. But there was nothing else I could do. What do you do when there's nothing else you can do? Well, you think, well, I'll cop out, you know, I'll drop out. But you can't do that. Because our life is about motivation. Right? It's about moving. It's moving and doing.

[21:43]

So we set ourselves up to attain something. But in the midst of setting ourselves up to attain something, we create a problem. So we have to deal with that problem. And that's practice. Enduring. No matter what's going on. What I did when that was happening, I would sit zazen every day. Twice a day. And that sitting zazen twice a day is what helped me to endure. Because I could see that there were two things. One was being, and the other was doing. And that should just be without worrying about the doing. But we're motivated to do. So it's good to take that break of just being, because that's enough.

[22:56]

And when we lose our resolve or our energy or our motivation to practice, just keep moving? Just, yeah. That's the time. That's the great test of your practice. What that does is strengthen your practice. Because the truth being that once you start to practice, you can never stop. No matter what you think. If you go away for 20 years, you can't stop. Why? Because it's the truth about your life. Thank you, Sojin. You're welcome. Okay, Kabir, you're next on deck. Let me unmute you or ask you to unmute yourself. Hi, Sojin, sorry I'm late. I had a bit of a technical difficulty. Well, first of all, I just want to thank you and the community for this great support.

[24:12]

One of the positive things that came out of this whole shelter-in-place is I meditate regularly now. Especially in the evenings, which has been very, very helpful. What you said a couple of weeks ago about how to remember. Kabir, you're cut out, your voice can't hear you. Oh, can you hear me now? Yeah. Okay, so when you mentioned about discipline, when I asked about how do we remember our breath in the storm of emotions or anger?

[25:16]

You said something about discipline. And that was very helpful. What I've been doing is when I'm not feeling angry or I'm not in the storm of emotions, I try to recall my breath or pay attention to it. When things are good, when things are calm, when things are okay, and when things get a little shaky, it's a little easier. Again, to recall or to come back to the breath. I had this interesting dream that night. I was saying I go to refuge to Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. And then all of a sudden I heard, said, I go refuge to my actions.

[26:20]

And I wanted to know what's your take on that? Going for refuge to our actions. Sojin, you're muted. Hold on a second. Can you... Kika, can you unmute Sojin for some reason? How's this? Okay. Sorry. I might have done that by mistake. Okay. It's like, if you offer everything to Buddha, then everything is okay. But, you know, you said I take refuge in Buddha, and so forth. And then you go back to your stuff.

[27:21]

Yeah. And so you offer your stuff. How you take refuge in Buddha is to offer all your stuff to Buddha. Buddha will take care of it. What does that mean, that Buddha will take care of it? It means that you're trusting yourself. Actually, everything is okay. We think it's not okay. But everything is okay. It could be better. Yes, yes. You can make it better. But first of all, you have to be able to say, oh yeah, everything is okay. Because here it is. And this is what it is. Then, okay, now what do I do? So you come back to... Coming back to Buddha means... To offer it all to Buddha means it's all okay. All okay. It's all okay. And now what do I do? Instead of it's not okay, what do I do?

[28:24]

If it's not okay, you'll never find out what to do. So it's got to be okay. Everything is okay, just as it is. Now what do I do? So you're going from pessimism to optimism. And you want to stay in the realm of optimism or neutrality. As soon as it's not okay, then you lose your footing. You lose your center. So just come back to your center all the time. You live in your center. You don't live out there. You live in your center. And then everything you do comes from that place. That's called faith in yourself and in Buddha. So yes, come back to your breathing. Come back to your breath so that you maintain a calm mind. You can't do anything. You know, if you're in a fight or in a desperate situation,

[29:30]

you can't operate from that situation. You can only operate from the situation of calmness. So you come back to your breath and let go of everything. Just like that. That's very good. And take a deep breath. Always breathe from here. Make a practice of always breathing. You can't see this, but deep in your gut. That's where your practice comes from. That's where your breath is. That's where you solve all your problems. When I say solve all your problems, it means you know how to take care of them. Or you make an effort to take care of them from your center. What about taking refuge to our actions, you know?

[30:31]

Well, yeah. Your actions are all aimed at being Buddha. All of your actions are... What would Buddha do? George Bush, you know. What would Jesus do? But that's true. You come back to, I am Buddha. What shall I do now that I'm Buddha? I mean, it sounds a little hokey, but it's true. No, it's perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Linda? Linda's still there? Yeah. Okay? Yes. Hi. Hi.

[31:33]

Yeah, you said zazen is a rest. A rest in your mind, yes. Yeah. Sounds like such a good idea. Zazen was like that. I've been sitting more regularly now, than I was before. It's not restful, though, mostly. It's... And even now, I was coming here to meet you all. But I didn't feel I could find my sincerity or my open heart. I can experience a lot of fluttering and a lot of strange action over here. I don't have... Maybe this is about as sincere as I can get. But it doesn't feel very open-hearted

[32:36]

about that. Gee whiz, I never think about those things. Gee whiz. I never think about those things. I just think, now I'm going to sit zazen. Now I'm going to be with so-and-so. Now I'm going to meet the sangha. I never think about any of those things. No. That's because my mind is open and not cluttered with looking for things to hold on to. So, if I say, good evening, Sojin. Yes. That's the sincere... A little fluttery heart and a little bit of a chopped-up frontal lobe. I don't really have a good question for you, but it's nice to see you. What you bring forth, though, is a question. What you bring forth is the question of, what do I depend on?

[33:39]

Where is my bottom line? That's your question, as I see it. I don't know if you want to have calmness of mind. Maybe you do. Maybe you don't. I don't know. But I think your mind threatens you. Threatens? Did you say? Threatens. Threatens you. And you're a little bit afraid of it. Yeah, it can be scary, that mind. Yeah. It's a bit scary. So, you know, I would like to say that we all love you very much. And we want to see you happy and not worried about anything at all. Is that what I was really asking for again?

[34:47]

I know. You don't think you're happy, but you are. Anyway. Got me. Well, that's good. Thank you. You're welcome. Yes. Okay. Next is Karen Dakotas. So, Jun Roshi, I can't see you yet, but I think you'll come into view soon. Hi. I see you in a little box. He's muted again. Yeah, I don't know what's with this. I seem to be hitting muting my teacher. Sorry, Sojin. Is that okay? Yes. Hi. Hi. I don't know why that's happening. It doesn't matter. It's just happening. And we fixed it. So far. So far. So far, so good. So far, so good. So, hi. I've just been on Zoom

[35:48]

for almost three solid months. certain themes have come up about my practice. You know that saying you know it because I learned it from you. When you are you, Zen is Zen. Oh, he's frozen for me now. He's completely frozen. Anyway, that phrase, I used to never understand it. Now I sort of understand it, but I haven't realized it. So, my question is about being authentic. And I have found through this Zoom experience that I feel very much like I used to think I was very authentic because I had all these feelings and having feelings made me authentic. But in fact, I feel like I present a lot. I present and I don't know if I'm really being myself.

[36:52]

I don't know if Zen is Zen because I don't know if I am me. So, it's like Katagiri's two books. Returning to Silence and then You Have to Say Something. So, I want to learn. My question is about how to express myself not from presentation, but from being real, being present, but not presenting. No, you were gone for a while. So were you. You were gone for a while. I didn't get all that. I got the last part. Oh, okay. Well, whatever. Say something. Yeah, that's it. I said it's kind of like between Katagiri's two books, Returning to Silence and You Have to Say Something. Yes. And the part where I have to say something, even in this moment,

[37:53]

it's like, am I really being me? Is Zen really Zen? Or am I just presenting? And it bothers me. That's the problem. I see. Don't worry about it. Just be you. Honestly. Don't worry about those. I don't worry about those things. I know. I got that when you talked to Linda. I got that you don't worry about it. And I know you don't worry about it, but I still have to bring my questions to you. I know. It's easy for me to say. It's easy for me to say. But I think it's real for you. I think you have a kind of faith that I think these last few months have tested my faith because I've been seeing myself all the time on these Zoom meetings. It's just sort of closed in on me. So I can't get some freshness

[38:57]

to who I am somehow. I see. And offer. It's like Linda said. It's like I don't know that I'm here with a full compassionate heart. Although I feel compassion, I'm not called to action. Well, I understand what you're saying. Okay. But I have to say, you look great. You look marvelous, darling. You look marvelous, darling. Honestly. Well, and that's really what I'm going for, right? Yes. And what I thought when I first saw your picture, saw you on here, I thought, boy, she really looks great. You look better and better all the time. You know, I have I have gotten to sometimes I'm bowing at the bowing mat not knowing what to say before giving a lecture. But I don't think about those things. I just think, you know,

[39:57]

put something in my mind to say, you know. And then I just open my mouth whenever it comes out. And it's all there in you. Yes. It's all there in you. And you shouldn't worry so much about your delivery or about any of those things. It's there. Don't even think about what you're going to say. And just trust that it will come out of your mouth. Well, yeah. Things do come out of my mouth. You always do. You always give good talks. I've never heard a talk by you that when you wear a shoe, so you get great talks. You know, it's there. If it's not there, it won't come out. If it's there, it won't come out. But you have to trust that it's there. After practicing for 30, 40 years, you know.

[40:58]

Yes. Thank you. And I think the thing, the many things you've said tonight that feel inspiring. The one is about faith. That it's not there's faith in anything. There's just faith. Right. And I think when I remember that, the question I brought falls away. Yes. Yeah. Because I can't really, I can't really control how, what you're seeing is. Right. Right. But I always have had great faith in you. That's why I ordained you. That's why I transmitted you. For which I'm very grateful. Thank you. Cricket, you're up.

[42:07]

Okay. Hello, Sojan. Hi. I don't see you yet. Oh. I'm down in the bottom corner. Okay. All right. Now I see you. Okay. Could you say something about how it is to want to practice generosity at a time when it feels like the need is so overwhelming that it's easy to get flooded with all of, you know, sort of all of what we see, all of the requests and so forth. And at the same time, you know, just speaking for myself, you know, that there is, you know, I give and then I also at other times feel a constriction out of insecurity. Like what, like

[43:08]

I go back and forth between could I give more? Am I giving enough? And then wait, you know, but what if something happens to me and I don't want to be in a position where I need something? And I think this time of insecure, you know, maybe a heightened awareness both of privilege of how much I actually do have relative to, you know, sort of what my circumstances could be makes me, you know, want to give as much as I can. But then fear comes in and I'm, you know, and I don't usually, this isn't usually a big problem for me, but during this period of the pandemic, I seem to feel much more overwhelmed by this. Is the fear of being overwhelmed? No, it's more... What do you fear about? I think it's the uncertainty

[44:14]

and the not knowing, you know, all right, let's say I want to give in these various ways, but what happens if I lose my own ability to take care of myself? Well, then you have to allow for other people to take care of you just like you take care of others. It's not just one way. Yeah, I find it really hard. I mean, to me... It's difficult, it's hard, it's hard, yes, but it's like giving people the opportunity. You think it's, from your point of view, you see it as people taking something, making it difficult for people. On the other hand, you're giving them the opportunity to do something that which they appreciate. Your friends should appreciate taking care of you. They want to do that, but we feel,

[45:17]

well, don't, you know, I can take care of myself. I don't want to impose on you, right? Yeah. It's good to have flexibility, the most important thing in the world. Flexibility, a flexible mind, a flexible body, a flexible attitude is the most important thing, which means that you're a lefty. No, it means that you're willing to work with what's going on instead of having rigid ideas about how it should be or how you're going to feel, how other people are going to feel. Forget the future. Just take care of the present. If you have a warm-hearted, generous spirit, that's all you need. And then what comes to you, you can take care of. And what comes to you, you can't take care of. So you take care of what you can take care of and take care of yourself. If you don't take care of yourself,

[46:17]

you're making it harder for other people. So it's like, you know, it's all interwoven. Our lives is interwoven with our actions and our feelings and our thoughts and everybody who we come in contact with. So how do you move flexibly through all of these, through whatever is going on? And it's easy to be overwhelmed. But one thing about being overwhelmed is that you are free to take care of yourself. You should take care of yourself in the same way you would take care of other people. You should be generous to yourself. Generosity is just generosity. Period. So why shouldn't you be generous to yourself? You're missing something.

[47:17]

Otherwise. So taking care of yourself makes it easier for other people because they don't have to take care of you then. Yeah. Anyway, you have a generous spirit and you want to really help everybody you meet. But there's limitations as to what you can do. But if you have the generous spirit, it's not a matter of deeds necessarily. It's about you are just being yourself. You're helping other people because of your generous spirit without doing something special. This is how our practice permeates into the world. I think that, you know, in this pandemic, we are demonstrating how to practice during this time with this thing.

[48:27]

That's our practice. How do we take care of ourselves? How do we take care of our surroundings? How do we make an example for people how to do that? When they see you can do that, then they think, well, I can do that too. I mean, you don't have to think about it. Just practicing. Knowing how to practice in this situation of confinement is helping people without you even thinking about it to follow your example because the vibes from our being emanate into the world unknown to us necessarily. Some of us are aware and some of us are not. Thank you so much. Okay, take care.

[49:29]

Our last questioner is Kika. Thank you. Well, I feel really privileged to be in your presence, and I just want to say that you're so, just wonderfully light, just so lighthearted and light in your body. I mean, your face, you're very Kris Kringle, you know. So I just want to know how do you stay so lighthearted, so wonderfully lighthearted? Well, it's just my response to the world. It's like I'm not worried about anything. I'm not worried about myself particularly. I try to take care of myself, you know, but I just enjoy everything I'm doing.

[50:36]

I remember when I thought about, you know, during my life, how I'm going to end it. I always thought I'd live to be 120, but that probably won't happen. And then I always thought that I would just live my life totally to the end, you know, just not slow down or do some, you know, reminiscing or whatever it is, just live it all the way to the end. And so that's always been my attitude, and I don't worry about the past, although I have a lot of remorse about the past in various ways. But I'm happy about it, you know. I'm just a happy person, and I attribute that to something. So, you know, as you get,

[51:43]

when you're a baby, you don't know anything, you know, and you can see everything just as it is. And then when you get, as you get older, you need these props and you need to find ways to support yourself and your ideas and your, you know, body and all that. But then as you get a certain age, if you have a good practice, you don't become childlike. You don't become childish, but you become childlike. So I feel like I'm somehow segueing into my childlikeness, and I'm enjoying it. Yeah, I can see that, yeah. Because at some point in my life, I decided that my life would be based on love rather than anything else. I appreciate that a lot.

[52:48]

We had a little hiccup here with the video. Yeah. Yeah, you just stay, you know, I kind of got a little bit of a rise, like, oh, no, we lost them, we lost communication. And you just stayed right there, just the same energy pulsing. And then somebody said, what happened? And you said, what happened? You said, it doesn't matter what happens, it's happening. And so that answered all my questions. That answers all my questions. It doesn't matter what happened. It's just what's happening. I've been watching the series on public television, a video of the Roosevelts. And during Franklin's term, he always knew that the war was coming,

[53:52]

but he had a hard time convincing people in America that the war in Europe was going to overwhelm everybody. And then when it happened, he was the calmest person in the room. And all through his tenure, he was always the calmest person in the room. Great example. How can I remember to love? Yeah. How can I remember to love everybody? Yeah. It's that you just, you don't love everybody. You just embody love. Yeah. Sergeant, that's the final questioner. If you wanted to say a little closing statement. Well, that was my closing.

[54:53]

Okay. Do you want to open it to more people or no? Well, you know, it's been almost an hour, right? Yeah. I would say if I do that, it would be two questions. Because otherwise, it'd get a little out of hand. I think it's good to keep it to our commitment. And then think about it and see what turns up for another one. I would like, maybe we could, we could say, is there someone else who would like to ask a question? I didn't get that. I'm sorry. We could say, is there someone else who would like to ask, who's burning to ask a question?

[55:55]

You. Someone who's burning to ask a question? You. Ross Blum has his hand up. Oh, yeah. Ross. Okay. Okay. Let me unmute him. Hi, Sergeant. How are you, everybody? My question to you is what I see on the screen here is a projection. And when I have the good fortune to see you in person, it's a projection. Is there a difference? No. Everything is a projection. Everything in your mind is a projection, whether it's on the screen or off the screen. Okay. We live in a world of projections. That we do. Thank you very much. You're welcome. That we do.

[56:43]

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