I vow to chase the truth without having to target just words. I don't know whether I can talk without my leg being crossed. Do you want a train chair? Do you want to sit on the floor? Can you cross in there? Yeah, maybe I better. Care for the water? Those who are ready to recite. Brett, Loretta, David, Judith, and Ellen. I take refuge in Dharma. I take refuge in the Sangha. The disciple of the Buddha embraces and sustains right conduct. The disciple of the Buddha embraces and sustains all good.

[01:02]

The disciple of the Buddha embraces and sustains all beings. The disciple of the Buddha should refrain from killing. The disciple of the Buddha should refrain from stealing. The disciple of the Buddha should refrain from misusing sexuality. The disciple of the Buddha should refrain from lying. The disciple of the Buddha should refrain from intoxicating mind or body of self or others. A disciple of the Buddha should refrain from slander. A disciple of the Buddha should not be possessive of anything. A disciple of the Buddha should refrain from praising self at the expense of others. A disciple of the Buddha should refrain from harboring ill will. A disciple of the Buddha should refrain from abusing the Three Treasures. I bow to embrace and sustain all beings.

[02:20]

A disciple of the Buddha does not kill. A disciple of the Buddha does not steal. A disciple of the Buddha does not misuse sexuality. A disciple of the Buddha does not lie. A disciple of the Buddha does not intoxicate body or mind of self or others. A disciple of the Buddha does not slander. A disciple of the Buddha does not praise self at the expense of others. A disciple of the Buddha is not possessive of anything. A disciple of the Buddha does not harbor ill will. A disciple of the Buddha does not abuse the Three Treasures. I take refuge in Buddha. I take refuge in Dharma. I take refuge in Sangha. I bow to embrace and sustain right conduct.

[03:24]

I bow to embrace and sustain all good. I bow to embrace and sustain all beings. A disciple of the Buddha does not kill. A disciple of the Buddha does not steal. A disciple of the Buddha does not misuse sexuality. A disciple of the Buddha does not lie. A disciple of the Buddha does not intoxicate the mind or body of self or others. A disciple of the Buddha does not slander. The disciple of the Buddha does not praise self at the expense of others. The disciple of the Buddha is not possessive of anything. The disciple of the Buddha does not harbor ill will. The disciple of the Buddha does not abuse the three treasures. I take refuge in Buddha. I take refuge in Dharma.

[04:27]

I take refuge in Sangha. I vow to embrace and sustain right conduct. I vow to embrace and sustain all good. I vow to embrace and sustain all beings. A disciple of Buddha refrains from killing. A disciple of Buddha refrains from taking what is not given. A disciple of Buddha refrains from misusing sexuality. A disciple of Buddha refrains from lying. A disciple of Buddha refrains from intoxicating the mind or body of self or others. A disciple of Buddha refrains from speaking of another's faults. A disciple of Buddha refrains from praising self at the expense of others.

[05:31]

A disciple of Buddha refrains from clinging to anything, even the Dharma. A disciple of Buddha refrains from harboring ill will. A disciple of Buddha refrains from abusing the three treasures. No, there's no one's office. There's some director's chairs. Some director's chairs back there somewhere. So, next week is the last class. Is there anyone who would like to receive this next week? Nora. John. Ellen. Maybe one more? Well, Ellen, if she's here next week, and maybe...

[06:35]

Allison. So... Just a couple of things that came up from one of the other classes that I just wanted to talk about briefly before we begin talking about the second grade precept of refraining from stealing or not to steal, or the disciple of the Buddha does not take what is not given. And what I wanted to bring up was, after we spoke about the three pure precepts, the one that's either translated as avoid all evil, do all good, and save beings, or embrace and sustain right conduct, embrace and sustain all good, embrace and sustain all beings, a couple of people spoke with me about feeling very strongly from out of the class

[07:40]

this feeling of seeing their own unskillful ways, or their own evil is the word they were using, but just really feeling strongly, seeing how it is that they act in the world unwholesomely and the harm that that causes, and feeling really strongly affected by that. So I just appreciated hearing about that. And I didn't know if anybody else had had that, not exactly revelation, but a kind of insight into one's own impulses and actions. But I just wanted to let you know that for a number of people that did happen, just in the discussion about it, some kind of turning in their own way of looking at their life.

[08:43]

So, this precept of... Did people get a chance, those of you who have the book, to read Eken Roshi's section on it, or other things that people have written on? We've been talking about, or I mentioned that there's sometimes three ways to look at the precepts, the literal meaning, the compassionate meaning, and the absolute, from the absolute different views. And this one in particular, I feel, is very... they all do, but for me it's very clear how those three operate with this second precept. And I wanted to start just looking at the literal meaning of not to steal. And I wanted to read from the Brahmajala, the Brahmanet Sutra, the Brahmajala Sutra. A disciple of the Buddha must not steal by him or herself,

[10:02]

encourage others to steal, facilitate stealing, steal with mantras, or involve him or herself in the causes, conditions, methods, or karma of stealing. To the extent that he or she must not do so, he or she should deliberately steal the possessions of ghosts, spirits, or any other beings, all valuables and possessions, including such objects as small as a needle or a blade of grass. A bodhisattva should give rise to a mind of filial compliance, kindness, and compassion toward the Buddha nature. Thus, he or she should always aid people to produce blessings and happiness. If instead a bodhisattva steals another's valuables or possessions, he or she thereby commits a bodhisattva parijika offense. And that parijika offense I talked about last time, it means to be cast out or to have a fall. And I think that's referring to a fall into an unfortunate or a state of woe.

[11:08]

You can either think of that as right now in a state of woe or an unfortunate rebirth, rebirth in hell, or so forth. So that's a parijika, it's a particular kind of offense. Can I ask you a short question? Yeah. They all say that at the end of those. Yeah. Yeah. The ten majors all are parijika. Right. And so when I realized that, I was wondering, I mean, is this in a period of time where there were more than the ten bodhisattva precepts? This has ten major and 48 minor. Okay. And the minor ones are not? The minor ones are, for example, things like, I'll just pull this out. The 16th minor precept prohibits perverse explanation of the Dharma out of desire for personal benefit.

[12:12]

The disciple of the Buddha must first with a wholesome attitude study the awesome comportment, sutras, and moral codes, the great vehicle, and extensively fathom their principles. Thereafter, whenever newly studying bodhisattvas come from 30 or 300 miles away seeking instruction, so on and so forth, one should be willing to forsake one's entire body, one's flesh, hands, and feet, as an offering to starving tigers, wolves, lions, and hungry ghosts, and so forth. Anyway, there. Wow. The 19th minor precept prohibits double-tongued speech, meaning provoking quarrels. And anyway, it's like... And they don't have that at the end. They're not applied together. No. They're defiling offenses, which are different things where you make some kind of penance or repentance. But the Parajikavans supposedly are your... It's pretty strong when you're cast out, you know, of the Sangha. But I...

[13:16]

Anyway, I don't know exactly what the practice was at the time, whether you could also do repentance, and I think there was different levels of things you could do. But there were certain things like killing and stealing, probably, you were asked to... to disrobe or whatever. Yes. It seems like the defiling offenses are actually part of the Paratika offenses. I mean, there are ways to... I mean, if you think about killing someone as not being present with them, or, you know, all those different ways of seeing it, it seems like those other offenses can go under one of the major ten. Well, just the ones that I pulled out sounded like no double-tongued speech would come underline, you know, kind of a further description. Could you mention the name of that book again? Yes, this is The Buddha Speaks, The Brahmanette Sutra.

[14:20]

This is three volumes. The first is just the sutra, and then there's two volumes of commentary, part one and part two. So it's a lot of commentary by Elder Master Hui Tsang, Chinese. So when I talk about literal, I mean they're really being extremely literal about what this particular precept means. And on one level we can talk about that, not taking so much as a needle or a blade of grass. Ariel? Could you spell that? Brahma? Brahma, B-R-A-H-M-A, Brahmanette Sutra. And it's also called the Brahmajala in Sanskrit, J-A-L, Brahma, J-A-L-A. I don't know if this is, I don't know how available this is, Bob, maybe. What's the translation? It's this translation, I think it was Dharma Realm Buddhist University,

[15:33]

Buddhist Texts Translation Society from 81. So when I first came to Zen Center, one of the first Dharma talks I ever heard, I believe it was Zen Tatsu Baker, but I'm actually not sure. But anyway, one of the lines in it was, If you take pencils from work, you will not be able to sit zazen. And I remember kind of hearing that and thinking, Oh, you mean the Dharma permeates every single aspect of my life? Like that, some realization that this just wasn't kind of this exotic thing that I was trying out. It actually covered every part of my life, and down to the minutest details of, you know, thoughtlessly, or in any way, unconsciously or however,

[16:36]

taking home pencils from work that were, does not take what is not given. A disciple of the Buddha does not take what is not given, and those pencils are not really given to you, they're just available. So realizing that this practice was down to the minutest details, there was nothing that wouldn't be touched by practice. And that made an enormous impression on me. It was one of my pivotal Dharma experiences in those first years. And I didn't know it was about the precept or not the precept, but I saw that if I was going to really sit, then it included every aspect of my life. So, I think that's talking about it in kind of a literal way,

[17:39]

to not steal things, take things from others, no robbing. And I think in that way, it's pretty clear what we're talking about. Now, I think I'll jump to the absolute side, how we look at this precept from an absolute point of view, which intellectually we're trying to do that. So, a translation of that, which would be from the One Mind Precepts of Bodhidharma, and also Dogen's description of it. Not stealing, the precept of not stealing. And this is the description. In the suchness of mind and objects, the gate of liberation is open. So, in the suchness of mind and objects, the gate of liberation is open.

[18:41]

When we were talking during the second class about the One Precept of Emptiness, remember that? And the cup, and that whole description of that. So, within the realization that mind and objects... So, if I see this pen and I want to steal this pen, the realization that my mind, or Buddha mind, or the sentient being mind and Buddha mind as one, and the objects of mind are not separate or are not two. This object exists for me right now, well, for you, all of you, it exists as a visible, right? Because none of you are touching it with me, so you can't feel what it feels like. So, for you, it's a visible, and it's a hearable, and for you, and it's also a...

[19:52]

You have a perception of it in your mind, and along with that perception, you see its shape and color, which is its visible-ness. It's really just shape and color, that's what you see. You see black, we call this color black. Somebody might call it something else, but we've agreed to call it black in the shape. And when you see this, that's black, and like this in your mind, so this shape and black is the skanda of form, rupa skanda, the visible, and then when you... Then you might have... There might be some pleasantness about seeing that, or a neutral feeling, or maybe an unpleasant feeling, because it reminds you of something. Anyway, that would be the second skanda of feelings, vedana. It's just pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral.

[20:58]

So that might be part of this, when you look at this, and then in your mind, perceptions, you think, oh, that looks like these things I call pens that I've seen before and I've had, or somebody else might say, that looks like a licorice. Some kid who's never had a fountain pen or pen might say, oh, licorice, or whatever it is that this reminds you of, you go into your file, your samnya file, your perception, that's the skanda of perceptions, feeling, form, formations, really, we call that formations. No. Form, feelings, perceptions, samnya. Together makers is sam is together, and nya is, no, excuse me, together knowers is samnya. So you go through that file you have of previous things, and you have a perception of this as,

[21:59]

you name it, pen. So form, feelings, perceptions, impulses, and then you might have an impulse, some emotional thing about it, like, gee, I wish I had that because I lost mine, or I hate pens, they get all over me, or you have some emotional thing that might come up, some impulse, or why doesn't she put that down and stop talking? And then the last one, so that's samskara, that's together makers, and then the last one is your conscious of it, consciousness. So those are the five skandas. And so, is there a pen, some pen, actually, you know, that's other than all those things that we can break it down into, the five skandas? Well, there really isn't. And you can't even feel it. You know, you don't have a sensation of it or a touchable thing or a tasteable. So this object, the mind object,

[23:06]

that we see as kind of out there, is actually empty of being out there. It's just part of mind. It's in the suchness of mind and objects, the gate of liberation is open. So this is not something, how could you steal this? How could you? This is the absolute way of thinking. How can you steal or take some object that already is completely none other than your own mind, mind and objects in suchness? So the absolute understanding of this precept is that there is nothing that you can steal. How can you steal objects of the world? They already are you. And when you have that realization, of course, that's why I brought all these books, another translation of that is the self nature is sacred and profound.

[24:11]

In the midst of the unattainable Dharma, not to produce the thought of attainment, this is called the precept of not stealing. So to not even have arise in your mind this thought of, Oh, I'd like one of those. I want that one. I want to take that for me. That way of thinking is already the mind of stealing because it posits that there are objects out there separated from yourself that you can get and other people have and that they belong to you or you don't have enough or all that. And that's the mind of delusion. Because in emptiness, Avalokiteshvara when practicing deeply the Prajnaparamita, the perfection of wisdom, perceived that all five skandhas are empty. We just kind of did this skandha meditation and they're empty of own being,

[25:13]

meaning this pen does not have a separate own being apart from you that you can steal. Well, there is no such thing as stealing. Well, I guess my question would be are all things in the relative world delusional then? What do you mean by delusional? Well, you said that in the absolute there's no separation between the pen and me. But when the thought arises that I want that, that there's some attainment from that delusion. And so I guess I just saw that as a difference between the absolute realm and the relative realm. And so I was just wondering if because of that I want to make a sweeping... Because of that we're finished? Yeah, because of that then all things

[26:17]

that would create separateness, is that all delusional? Well, even if you realize that I need to function and maybe I need to write a letter. Exactly. So when I say delusion, the delusion has to do with believing that there are inherently existing things that you can take. But it's not delusional. In fact, Buddhism has no quarrel whatsoever with common sense, like fountain pens and writing and writing letters in fountain pens and giving presents. And, you know, there's no problem at that realm. That's why... See, the danger with the absolute is you begin thinking, oh, well, if there's nothing that's not stealing then everything's mine anyway, so I might as well keep this thing. That's the kind of danger of talking about it in this way. But because we have a chance to discuss it thoroughly,

[27:17]

then you can think it. So there's the emptiness, there's the three wheels, there's the gift, the giver, and the receiver, and they're all empty of own being. So you can give and receive, but when the thought arises in terms of taking what is not given or stealing, that already posits this separation based on delusion. But everything in the relative world has this conventional relative existence, the merging of difference and unity. There is difference, and that's that Sandokai. So there isn't really a problem there as long as we don't confuse inherent existence... You know, there's the belief in inherent existence and there's relatively how things exist in the world, conventionally speaking, and we kind of do that and think in that way, but you just have to take away that belief

[28:19]

in the inherent existence of things, and then you function without... That's when the mind... That's when the gate of liberation is open. This is translated by Karl Bielfeld, who happens to be in the liturgy conference, translation conference that we have here going on now. The self-nature is sacred and profound. In the midst of the unattainable Dharma, not to produce the thought of attainment, this is called the precept of not stealing. Here's another one. Not stealing. In the vastness of mind and objects... Oh, I read this one. The gates of liberation are open. That's Dogon. And I think there's another translation of this by Mizumi Roshi. The self and external objects, such as they are,

[29:21]

are differentiated and yet one. That's merging of difference and unity. The gate of liberation opens spontaneously. So... Can you just do that instead of looking? So we have, you know, we have things of the world, pens and tables and friends, and then we have the belief that they inherently exist. And we do that. So if we remove that belief that they inherently exist, then things exist the way they are, in sections, which is codependently arisen, or in emptiness, interdependently existing. They don't exist as separate inherent things. But it doesn't mean they don't exist at all.

[30:23]

That's falling into nihilism. That's the extreme. That nothing exists. Well, that's not true. And it goes against our common sense because we do lots of things with objects. So there really isn't a difference between the absolute and the multiple? I mean, they influence each other and we're all dealing with the same stuff. It's all the same. In a way, like... I don't know what I want to say. I guess, when you... I'm finding myself wanting to quote Chanting Cards, but when you take it apart, like, this is the absolute and this is the relative, and you put them together, but then you take them apart and you see that a pen is a pen,

[31:23]

but it's also from the same existing things as me. Then you... It's very hard to hold it in the mind because this is non-dual. You know, it's non-dual thinking. And actually, maybe the way I'm talking about it is not so non-dual necessarily. Non-dual would be, you know... I don't know what. I don't want to turn you upside down or something. The relative and absolute integrate, right? The relative and absolute integrate. The mind of Buddha and the mind of such beings is not two. But let's not get inflated before we understand this, that, well, I'm Buddha and I can do anything. Give me your pen. You have to be very clear. So, you know, samsara and nirvana. When you totally understand samsara, meaning our propensity to believe in the inherent existence of things and ourself, first of all,

[32:24]

as the primal ignorance that needs uprooting, then when we thoroughly understand samsara, then there's nirvana. So there's samsara, nirvana, and not two. Does that make sense? I guess the question that I wanted to ask just got more simple in my mind. Is it possible to exist in the relative world in an absolute way? Well, let me read what Suzuki Yoshi says. You all know this quote because it's so... Let's see, where is it? It's so... You know, when it hits you... I think you all know this. This is kind of about not stealing. Do not steal. This is existing in the relative,

[33:26]

in an absolute way, non-dually. Do not steal. When we think we do not possess something, then we want to steal. But actually, everything in the world belongs to us, so there is no need to steal. For example, my glasses. I need more glasses. They are just glasses. They do not belong to me or to you, or they belong to all of us. But you know about my tired old eyes, and so you let me use them. So things exist in the world, and they don't belong to me. They don't belong to you. They belong to all of us to take care of. And then we let each other... We don't realize the extent to which we are allowed to be here in this way,

[34:29]

to be in this room. My son just received this assignment from school. They had a Xerox of the evacuation orders for the Japanese from the war, from 1942. I think it was... Here in San Francisco and California. Yeah. So they're studying this in school, and it says, you know, attention, all people of Japanese ancestry must evacuate in seven days, and then there's all this list, what you can take. No pets allowed. He had to write about this young girl. It's a diary entry for his... They're doing it as diary entries. She can't take her dog with her, you know. And they had to find somebody to take the dog, and they could only bring two suitcases, and no mattresses and bedding. And here's this notice, you know. And, you know, we are being allowed.

[35:31]

We don't realize the extent to which, you know, people, the world is supporting us to be here and do this. It would be very simple to... I don't know if it's simple, but it can happen, you know, that we're not allowed to be here, and we're all carted away. This has happened, right? So... So anyway, this is... This mind of understanding this, how we are supported, everything we have, food and that, this is this precept of not taking what is not given or not seen. The other side of that is giving and generosity and living in the world in that way. And that's the kind of... what comes up along with this. So that's the absolute kind of... that there is nothing, there is no such thing as stealing. I wanted to read some more kind of commentary on that.

[36:32]

As Buddhist mind, realizes Buddhist mind as the objective world, it is suchness. What is the treasure one wants to steal? The treasure is the entire world in the ten directions is one bright jewel. When we accept that this bright jewel is the treasure, there is no thief, there is no stealing, there is no face. This brings... This being so, there is only treasure. This is Dhoni. Okay, so... I have a few more things to say about that, but... So that's the absolute. And then there is the compassionate way of understanding this. And the compassionate way of understanding all the precepts has to do with... I understand it as... Well, when do you steal?

[37:40]

I mean, when do you break the precept? Where the true keeping of the precept is to break the precept. And I think we know of instances where people... You steal to feed your family or your dog or... Maybe not your dog. Maybe your dog would bite something. But anyway, there are instances where you steal out of compassion. So there is... So the true keeping of the precept is to break the precept. But if you didn't break it, that would be a... That would be not true to the one precept. So it's very... You can't... I think our tendency is to want to kind of have it real clear. Now we know what we're going to do and we can do it and now we're okay. But it has... You know, the effects are really manifold.

[38:41]

Yes. I guess I was just going to ask a quick question. Is the compassionate way, the merging of difference and unity, the literal and the absolute, is that... Would that be an appropriate description? Well, the compassionate way is called the middle way. You know, and... I don't know if I... I mean, yes, I think the merging of difference and unity is the middle way. You know, there's the difference and the unity and the actual... The middle way is the understanding of their... How they come together. So to act out of that would be to act out of compassion, right? Out of that understanding would be to act out of compassion. And I think that the particular emphasis around the compassionate... Because to act from the non-dual would also be acting, I think, in that way too.

[39:49]

The literal may not be. The literal, you may get caught in self-righteousness. So you have to be careful on the literal. But the compassion... The kind of interesting thing about it is that it looks literally like you're breaking it. You know, but deep... If you look more deeply, it's keeping it. I think that's... That's why it's like a separate level, I think, because it has the breaking of it almost within. Do you really know that difference? When it's truly compassionate? Yeah. Yeah. Well, these dilemmas, these ethical dilemmas come up in our life. You know, that's... How can you... I mean, maybe you have an example or something. But there's... The sure way is your own heart's... You know, your own... Either the effect on you of doing it or the effect of non-harming or harming...

[40:53]

Or what the results are that you can see. You know, we sometimes do things out of... Out of compassion, like this came up in the Karma Workshop, where someone out of compassion wants to take the spider out of the room. You know, compassionately non-harming. But they do it so clumsily and with kind of tense hands that they crush the spider as they're bringing it out. So, out of compassion, you might want to do something. And yet, it wasn't thorough enough. It didn't actually penetrate, you know, into your fingertips, your very fingertips. So, harm was done. So... And there's other examples of that. So, you have to look at what actually happened sometimes to see. But there's this other great quote from Doberman, which I don't think I can find, but it says... It's something like...

[41:55]

Let me see if I can find it. Evil... The whole thing about evil. Well, I can't remember where it is on this. What may look like evil. This is it. Such a person who is in the midst of enlightenment might seem to commit evils, dwelling in the place where many evils are committed, dealing with the objects by which he or she may easily do evils, and having friends with whom he or she may do evil. Nonetheless, no evil may be done by this person. Thus says Dogen Zenji. But that's a person who is in the midst of enlightenment, you know. So, to somebody from outside, you might say, Oh, that person is doing thus and so, thus and so, and have a lot of judgment about them. I do not understand what's actually going on.

[42:55]

So, that goes into the precept of not discussing the faults of others. It goes right into that. Or slander. How do you know this isn't a bodhisattva doing their bodhisattva work? Who are you to kind of be looking out there and judging and saying, Oh, you have to talk with the person or whatever. What is the fault? You can't be sure necessarily. I want to share an experience. When I went to work a summer in Tassajara, I had ideas about what Tassajara was going to be like. When I went there, I think it was just in the first few days, sitting at a table, a senior person was gossiping about another student outwardly. And I was really shocked about this. And another friend I was close to was there.

[43:56]

So, I asked to talk to her about this. And I was really upset. And she said she noticed similar things like this. And she was also upset. And so, we said, Well, what can we do about this? And so, we decided, Okay, so we will try to keep the precepts. Because that's all we can do. And when we started to try to do that, we realized how much we gossiped and how much we lied and stole and did everything. And for me, what that brought up was that with others, and now I use or I see others as helping me. So, if something bothers me about what another is doing, I can turn it and see, Oh, I too do that same thing, which gives rise to compassion. And also that I can work on this, keeping this particular precept.

[44:58]

And it was really, really helpful that it's not my job to see if others are keeping them, but to look, to turn and look this way. But living in a sangha can help. And also to have another friend to give you energy to work on this. And I don't know, at this point, I don't know what the reason was for that person. To wake you up, I guess. Yeah. But you know something interesting later on? This person gave a talk, and they actually stated that this was something that they were working on. And then I realized that people usually know their faults, and usually we're working, and it doesn't help to point them out. It just makes us feel, you know, worse about ourselves. We're already working on this, and we have this insight already.

[45:59]

So, I think encouragement is better than criticism. Life is like sometimes people automatically, you know, like I've encountered this, like literally people assume that I know that I'm doing something that's harmful. Like, come on, he sits zazen, like, you know, he goes to these classes, doesn't he know that what he's doing is harmful? Like, doesn't he get it? And, but I, you know, like, I've actually, you know, like, accepting the fact that other people are, you know, like, you know, like, the fact that we are all here, especially in a situation of a practice place or a sangha, it's like we're all saying, you know, like, on some level, I guess, help me to turn the light on for you. Like, I can't do it on my own. That's, you know, I think that's part of supporting it.

[47:01]

So, you know, like, speaking to that, like, this is something that I have experienced, which is, like, really trying to be compassionate. Like, when you notice something, that somebody else is slandering, or, you know, like, doing something that, you know, like, that touches you, there's a point at which, like, you turn the light inward, and also you can talk with them from your, from that experience, from your experience of feeling the pain. And, you know, like, not that you're going to, like, help them see it more clearly, you know, like, naturally, without having the intention of, like, making them, like, change or do it your way or something. But I, like, I know that that's one thing that has actually helped me is when people do notice those things and say, wait a second, what are you... Yeah, I think there is a difference between slander or discussing the faults of others and with a compassionate heart,

[48:06]

pointing something out, bringing something to someone's attention, working with someone closely, or not closely, but pointing something out. And that, and it's done out of, for the benefit of the person, it's not done out of maliciousness or because it's fun to gossip about people, you know, it's... So that's different, that's not breaking the peace up. We're not saying that you can't discuss practice issues with people that have to do with, you know, the word fault. You know, like the fault, like the San Andreas fault. The fault is this place where there's movement, you know, where there's change possible, and the plates of the earth can slip and change and move. So fault is this place of growth and movement and development, you know. So if you understand that and say, let's look here, let's work here, there's movement here, that's just thinking in a different way, and I don't think we should refrain from that.

[49:10]

I think that's how sangha, the sangha jewel, you know, helps each other. But then, are you doing it with harsh speech? And you may see very clearly right there, you know, but how does it come out of your mouth? How is it phrased? What tone of voice? When is the time and place when you talk with the person? You know, you have to... Skill, that's skill and means, you know. So... I was listening to a tape of Thich Nhat Hanh talking about this second one. Now this is a very liberal translation on my part, but it seems like he talks about it as... He talks about all of the first five major predatory precepts as...

[50:13]

Instead of refraining from something, as protecting something. He talks about this second one as protecting generosity. Shall we read it? I just really enjoyed hearing just that... Really that simply, just that idea of protecting generosity. Like, there is giving all throughout the universe, you know. Every single thing is a gift and to take it is to... To take what is not given is to sort of defile that spirit of generosity that is... That supports it. Yes, exactly. And the ramifications in the world which both Akin Roshi and Thich Nhat Hanh go into, you know, ecologically speaking, in the environment, that kind of mind, how that's... And also Daito-Rinpoche I brought to read, which Rain gave me a copy of. So let me just read, this is from Thich Nhat Hanh's,

[51:19]

the five mindfulness trainings, you know, the first five precepts in his commentary. Aware of the suffering caused by exploitation, social injustice, stealing and oppression, I am committed to cultivating loving-kindness and learning ways to work for the well-being of people, animals, plants and minerals. I will practice generosity by sparing my time, energy and material resources with those sharing... Sharing my time, energy and material resources with those who are in real need. I am determined not to steal and not to possess anything that should belong to others. I will respect the property of others, but I will prevent others from profiting from human suffering or the suffering of other species on earth. Is that what you're... Yeah. I like that word, exploitation, that he uses in the first phrase,

[52:24]

the first strike of the quarter, just as part of what all this is about. You know, you talk extensively about this, not being able to take this canon in the abstract and relative. And for me, just to look at it, the word exploitation just really clarifies the whole thing, because it's not like... It's not like it matters that anything is separate from Buddha nature. It's just what matters is not to exploit Buddha nature. That is everything and that is one thing and that is different things. But just not to exploit it. So, I like that word. Yeah. It's interesting in that he says he will work to prevent others from doing that as well.

[53:28]

That really caught me by surprise. I didn't really hear that in a lot of Buddhist texts, that you're going to go out and prevent others from doing activities which conflict with what you feel is the way things should be. That's pretty interesting. Well, it's engaged Buddhism. If this is your understanding, then how can you sit by and let the suffering and exploitation happen? Part of your vow is to prevent others from profiting from human suffering or suffering of other species on Earth, so you do what you can, but not out of anger or trying to kill another person or their idea or anything. You just bring forth your understanding in whatever skillful ways you can. And, of course, he's been very involved with, Thich Nhat Hanh has in demonstrations and all sorts of things,

[54:29]

and his community has. And the same with Ekin Roshi who started the Buddhist Peace Fellowship. So, that's the kind of basis of engaged Buddhism is when you understand thoroughly, then you act as best you can. But that's not new, though. I mean, people talk about engaged Buddhism like it's something new, but I don't know whether it is or not, but in the Pali Canon it talks about not letting other people commit these things either. I mean, over and over again. It's not like it's original. Yeah, I think there's some... Yeah, the threads of that go all the way through. But there was a kind of, or is a kind of... What is it? A concept or something of, you know,

[55:31]

a kind of passivity that kind of goes along with meditators and contemplative life, which is not necessarily the case. I wanted to read this title. So, Laurie, this is... What's the name of the book? Heart of Being. Heart of Being. And he just goes through the precepts with the environment as the main focus. So, the second great... Do you mind me reading all these things? Is it boring? No, it's good. The second great precept is, Be giving, do not steal. Do not steal means not to rape the earth. To take away from the insentient is stealing. The mountain suffers when you clear-cut it. Clear-cutting is stealing the habitat of the animals that live on the mountain. When we overcut streams... When we overcut, streams become congested with the sediments that wash off the mountain slopes. This is stealing the life of the fish that live in the river, of the birds that come to feed on the fish, of the mammals that come to feed on the birds. Be giving, do not steal.

[56:32]

The mind and externals are just thus. The gate of liberation is open. So, the ramifications of not stealing and being generous, not taking what he's not giving in terms of... Well, I mean, it also goes back to not killing. You're taking a life. You're not taking the lives of others. Stealing the life. You know, the killing and stealing get very entwined here. Can you say again what that was from? This is a book called The Heart of Being by Dido Laurie. I think we have it in the... We do. Yeah. In the bookstore. In the bookstore. When I work with a precept, pretty much any one, I think, if you work with it with any degree of persistence or subtlety, it seems that it's a very profound or simple way to examine dependent co-arising.

[57:38]

Because if you ask the question, how is it that I find myself in a position where I'm confronted with the precept of not stealing? Then you say, well, it's because of this. And that's because of that. That's because of that. That's because of that. Whether it's your personal action or societal action. Like we were talking about stealing as manipulation. Sort of coercing someone or subtly coercing someone to give you something they wouldn't have given freely. And how is it that perhaps a woman finds herself in that position more often than a man? And it's about you and it's about society and it's about... It just seems like every precept leads you to see that dependent co-arising really clearly. Yes, definitely. And every precept leads you to the other precepts.

[58:41]

You know, they're all... Yeah, obviously. You know, to steal often you have to lie, you know. Zigley. I found a wonderful story that I would love to share about how the precepts are related. And it actually comes from the Jewish tradition, but it just seems so relevant. It's part of a talk that the rabbi at my synagogue gave at Yom Kippur. Can I just read it? It's not very long. Sure, go ahead. The story is told of a woman named Sarah who had fallen into bad ways. She was a thief and also an informer to the authorities. Once during the week before Yom Kippur, which is the Day of Atonement, she went to her ha-cham, which was what they called the Jewish leader in Salonika where she lived, and told him her misdeeds. She asked how she might repent, but she wanted to do it in a fairly easy way. Is there any easy way that I can repent, she asked.

[59:48]

Yes, replied the ha-cham. Just decide to give up one single misdeed, the act of lying. That doesn't sound so bad, she thought. I can still steal and cheat. Pick pockets and inform to the police. The ha-cham just tells me not to lie. So she made an agreement with him that she would never again tell an untruth. The next day, the woman set out to rob someone shopping at the stalls in the town square. On the way, a townsperson called out to her, Oh Sarah, what a fine day. What are you going to do today? Sarah said to herself, If I answer that I am going to steal, I will be turned over to the police. But if I lie, I will have broken my deal with the ha-cham. So she turned around and went back home. After a number of incidents of this type, Sarah returned to the ha-cham.

[60:50]

You told me that there was an easy path to repentance, that all I had to do was give up lying. Well, I stopped lying, and it turned out that in doing so, I had to give up stealing and informing as well, she told him indignantly. He answered, Just as lying leads to other wrongdoing, so does truth lead to a life of righteousness. So I think it's similar to what we're talking about. And if you wonder about whether or not you're breaking a precept, look to another one to see, you know, because it will, you'll be able to tell me, Is this, you know, is this praising myself at the expense of others? And then you see, Oh, I'm really speaking of their faults a lot, you know, that, you know, to get me up higher. If you're not sure, you know, just look at another one. Is this misusing sexuality? Well, you know, I guess I have to lie here, or I'm possessive, you know.

[61:59]

They all reflect and kind of turn. Yes. Yeah, and I can more easily relate it to the precept about killing. With the precepts, though, it seems like you can really spin in place, trying to apply the precept more and more precisely, more precisely. With the killing, you know, what we've discussed about, well, I'm not going to kill animals. Okay, well, draw the line at bird birds, or warm-blooded animals, or cold-blooded animals, or non-insect animals, or insect animals, but not arachnids. And you can take this down to an incredible level. You know, I'm not going to kill microbes. And you can justify suicide, you know, or just living such a way that you don't do anything, including breathing. Well, yeah, and it's also a matter of degree.

[63:04]

And the same thing with stealing. As you said, all these things are so interactive that, well, I'm breathing. Well, that's stealing. You could probably find a way that that's stealing. I ate dinner here. I could find a way that that's stealing. But I kept it from David, who was gathering food for the homeless. I mean, there's a middle way to all of this, I guess, is the answer. Otherwise, you go nuts. Well, maybe it's just the way my mind works. Well, I think you're right. There's a kind of extreme... It's kind of the shadow side of the literal, you know, where you go so far that your life becomes untenable. And you're not living for the benefit of others. You're not even living for your own benefit. You're just obsessed, you know. So that kind of thing can happen.

[64:05]

And it's the... Now, that's one of the real dangers with ascetic practices and having, you know, drawn some lines for yourself. Then it's like you may find there's some ill will about those other people who haven't drawn those lines. I quoted that, which was so moving to me, that Oda Roshi, Gary Snyder's teacher, who said, I'm a vegetarian, I eat pure food, but it's not that I feel superior to others who don't. This is my way, this is how I'm going to... But others have their own ways that I don't even know about of keeping the precepts and practicing. So that mind of... I don't know, very terrible is the word, very generous feeling. So that's... The Dalai Lama... The Dalai Lama had this question about some Western practitioners saying they don't feel like they're very warm human beings. They don't smile, they're not... That doesn't seem like they're really practicing the Buddha way.

[65:06]

Buddha way is the person is happy and generous and loving and kind and those kinds of things. Often, I mean, they can manifest differently if it's helpful also. But, you know, so you get into... I don't know that much about the giants, but I think the giants take, which is another religion, and they don't kill. And they take it, they filter their water and they... Down to starving themselves some, you know. So is that a beneficial way to be in the world? So I think there is this danger, and maybe that's why it's useful to have your Dharma buddies kind of say, you know... Like, this is another Suzuki Roshi story, but you all know it, I think, where he was traveling with somebody who was very strict vegetarian, and they went to, I think, a Buzzian restaurant or something. Suzuki Roshi ordered a hamburger and he ordered a fruit salad. And then Suzuki Roshi took one bite of his hamburger and he said,

[66:09]

I don't like it. I don't like it. You eat it. Switch plates. You can get very caught on these things and it just separates you and makes you feel like holier than thou. Is that the official story? That's the official story. Have you heard another version? Yeah. What's your version? Oh, I heard this. He told someone. Well, it could have happened in a lot of different situations. I heard that he took a whole song on McDonald's. A woman that was very strict, when she was going on vacation, the last thing he said to her was, be sure to eat a lot of hamburgers. I never heard either of those stories. What's the lemonade story? The lemonade story? They were microbiotic at the time.

[67:12]

And I still think they weren't using white sugar. And so they were making lemonade without sugar. And there's this big kind of, it's a Tassara big sort of split between the community. And so, I think he came out the back doors and said, no lemonade. And then he took some. And then he took some. You're right. Too literal. Too literal, the kind of, I keep saying the shadow side of too literal is, you know, the pitfall of it is separation and holier than thou, I think, can happen when you're too literal. Who hasn't spoken yet? Who has their hand raised? Jasmine? Yes, Jasmine. Just a short, maybe not so short. So, how can we practice? How can we practice this precept?

[68:14]

How can we bring it to our actual life? Because a part of me is like, oh, I will never steal anything again. And then I know that I'm just kind of putting aside those things that I do that I can't see. Or the other side is, I steal everything. Everything I have is stolen in that way. So, yeah, what's maybe some small sort of thing that I can do to... Well, that's a great question. You know, our life together gives us many, many, many opportunities to practice this. For example, working in the kitchen, you know, and the cookie tin and Thomas Jefferson and all that. For those of you who don't know Thomas Jefferson, his name is... For those of you who don't live here, where the cookies are hidden. So, there's these opportunities.

[69:19]

Now, I really did want to tell you this, that out of all... One of the most strong breaking of this precept is to steal from the Three Treasures. To steal from the Three Treasures or what has been offered to the Sangha or the awakened community who's practicing Buddha Dharma. That is such a jewel and a gift to the world, that to steal from the Sangha is one of the worst offenses. Like, in terms of stealing, far worse than even taking... What does it say? Something like a blade of grass from the Sangha is far worse than taking, you know, lots and lots of things from other people. Because this is for the world, you know, because the Bodhisattva vow is to live for the benefit of others. So, when you take from that, you're taking really from everybody in the whole universe. So, when we weigh the amount or value of the treasure, meaning the Three Treasures,

[70:28]

the gravest stealing is to steal things of the Three Treasures. What is offered to Buddha, however small, has immense merit. To steal such an offering is an extreme crime. So, now think about this, you know, here we are living in the midst of this practice place, dedicated to the Three Treasures and Buddha Way and Buddha Dharma. And so, like Jasmine is talking about, what are we actually talking about? What about those cookies? I mean, I told the story of myself in a lecture, which some of you heard of, taking, stealing these peppers from the walk-in. And the families have the privilege of taking food from the walk-in for fixing meals up or down in our own kitchens for the kids and so forth. I went to the walk-in to do the little shopping and saw these red peppers.

[71:31]

And they were on the red-lined shelf, which are the shelves that are not available, that are for the Sangha food. And I thought, ooh, those look good, maybe I can roast those up. They probably just rolled down by themselves to the red-lined shelf. So, I thought, you know, just two of them, what could they be used for? And so I put them in my sack and took them out. And I roasted them up. No, I didn't roast them up. Because later that day, believe it or not, the tensor called me and said, do you know anything about these peppers? And I thought, peppers, peppers? I mean, I had really just totally thought, no, peppers, no, I didn't take any peppers. And then I realized, they were on the red-lined shelf. I fooled myself. I was able to, like, talk about lying, you know,

[72:36]

to make a story that they probably rolled and ate them. And I stole them. I stole them from the walk-in, from the Sangha, from the Triple Treasure. I mean, it was like, it was a big deal for me. And it sort of still is, although I'm not quite as embarrassed as I was. I've done this story before, so I'm kind of inured, but closer to the time. But I realized that I was still, after all these, all this expensive prac, all this expensive education, I was still able to fool myself. That's like stealing pencils from work, you know. At that, down to that level that I could fool myself, and that kind of fooling yourself, why not take this, or how about that, you know? They probably really wanted me to have that diamond ring anyway. They don't ever do. It's the same kind of thinking, right? Exactly. There's no difference.

[73:36]

Anyway, so I had roasted them. So I bought her peppers, and I brought them back, and I repented to her, and I talked with my teacher about it, and I mean, it was a big deal. Because my mind, I stole in my mind and action and speech. Anyway, so we're talking about at that level, you know? So you could all think about in your life how you kid yourself. And these small actions, you know, described as like drops of water that over time they fill up, you know. There is no time, there is nothing that's insignificant. The way your mind thinks is just the same way it would think for larger things that have more consequences than peppers. I kind of want to go back to what Bec was saying about this going around and around. I guess I could refer a little bit to what Robert Aiken talks about

[74:42]

in the chapter about not lying. And he gives the example of parents that are going into a movie theater or something, and it's a dollar cheaper if the child is five. So they lie, and they say the child is five years old and not six, so the child can get in cheaper. And that kind of thing starts, you know, that child is seeing that, and that started at that age. What's confusing for me is going around and around these precepts that happens to me is we often refer to, and you referred to it earlier, about this place in us that's supposed to really know what's lying, what's cheating, you know, what's stealing. But what if we have been raised by parents that we know are lying all the time or society that's stealing all the time? Does that place become askew? And if it does, then... It does. It does. Then what kind of voice do you have?

[75:43]

You know, what we're talking about is revolutionary. It's totally revolutionary because the society is operating that way, as we know. And if you're practicing this precept scrupulously, scrupulous meaning you are not interested anymore in getting something for nothing or something that wasn't given, like you got too much change and you give back the change, those of you who practice that or do that, the person is like, oh, thank you, oh, here, you know, oh, take it anyway or whatever. It's a revolutionary event. Or to point out, you know, look, this happened to me the other day. There were these pies. I was paying a condolence call and I brought a pie. And there were all these pies, pumpkin, strawberry rhubarb. The same exact size of the pie and it was marked $6.99. And the other pie was marked $10.99. So I said this pie was mismarked, I think.

[76:47]

Well, they gave it to me for what it was marked for and they changed the other ones. But this was like a big surprise, you know, that it was being brought to their attention. So, yes, I think for most conventional ways you get something for nothing, you get the kid on the bus for less, they look 14, so all that is kind of how the way the world goes. And the Buddhadharma goes the opposite way, you know. It's like counter. So, personally, if we've been raised in that way, you know, as a kid, the kid says, but I have six. He's proud to be six. He says, hey. So, basically, that's something that happens. And I think there's a kind of natural, but it gets pretty smashed down, especially if it's survival things, you know. But what is it that brings us to the teaching, you know, we resonate with it.

[77:48]

We hear it and it's like, oh, I know that somewhere deep inside, that's my, somebody's singing my song, you know. You hear it and it's like, oh, yes, that's the way I want to live. That's the truth. I mean, I think we do resonate with it, even under the layers. But then we have to see how much we fool ourselves and how much we do want something for nothing. And then there's also, Eken Roshi gives an example of this, of this monk who was stealing from the other monks, and he said, you know, he was deprived of love, and so in a kind of perverse way, he was trying to steal from others to fill himself in a kind of, he calls it, Eken Roshi calls it a perverse loyalty, you know, kind of some way to connect with people. So you connect by taking their stuff, and it's, you know, all that. Then there's all the psychological realm of why we steal. I mean, I remember stealing from a boyfriend who broke up with me, and I stole all the pennies in his penny jar. So there. There's some way of having something of his close, you know.

[78:57]

So there's all that, and it's like sorting it out. How much? Not enough. Not enough. We're getting really close now, close to 9 o'clock, and there's all these hands going up. Who hasn't spoken yet? Allison? Well, when you don't fool yourself, you really look, then how do you motivate yourself to get out of bed? Because then you just feel terrible about how you get out of that place. Because you feel so badly about how you are in the world, and how many, is it, that you may not? If you're very honest and say, okay, I steal all the time, and I lie all the time, and I slander all the time, and, I mean, it's endless.

[80:00]

It's endless, and so, and I know that I've talked about this with you, but it's still, yeah. Well, one of the main practices is confession and repentance, you know. Those are practices that deal with when you actually acknowledge, like with the peppers, you know, to actually recite the repentance verse, all my ancient twisted karma, from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion, born of body, speech, and mind, and non-believer. That's for you to bring forth, you know, to meet your own actions, you know. Or once, anyway, that's one thing. Repentance and the confession, that's confession right there, confession and repentance kind of together, but you can also confess to somebody else, you know, to actually go to somebody and say, I mean, those of you who grew up Catholic, I don't, I didn't grow up Catholic,

[81:01]

but I can imagine that even the word confession maybe brings up kind of stale. What? I've seen it. You know, having to go through the kind of motions and maybe make things. I don't know what people, I've heard stories where people say, but to actually, the actual practice of confession is deeply, you know, relieving and soothing and comforting and, you know, you have a fresh start and you have someone who's with you. I mean, it's a marvelous practice. So we have these kinds of practices, and you don't have to even do it with somebody. You can do it to the Buddha. You can confess to the Buddha. And vow. I now fully vow. So you acknowledge and then you say,

[82:02]

and I re-consecrate myself, re-dedicate myself, live in a way that is in alignment with my innermost feeling of being in the world. And over and over and over, you know, down to the minutest things. And it's... So, I mean, you may feel like you can't get up, you can't do anything. I mean, that's often what happens when you start looking at the precepts. You can't say anything. Everything you say is praise yourself at the expense of others. Everything you say is slightly kind of, you know, you can... Tainted. Tainted or stained by your greed, hate, delusion. So, that's the level, this minute detail of living your life. Linda? Yes? What about reparation? In Catholic tradition, part of confession is a penance.

[83:03]

And a penance is a symbolic reparation like, say, ten Hail Marys or something like that. Yeah. Is that... Well, you know, if there are amends to be made, like buy peppers and give them back to the kitchen, you do that, you do what you can. Your own acknowledgement in and of itself, I think, is the repentance part, confession. But you might want to, for your own self, just to do bows. I mean, bowing is like a wonderful practice. You may want to include in your practice life bowing every day, you know. You know, Suzuki Roshi talks about his teacher who bowed so much, he had this quail sat on his forehead because he said he was a stubborn fellow with a will, you know, and probably a lot of anger. And so he bowed, you know, over and over. So you can do that kind of practice too. Sonia? What occurs to me as I'm listening is I think that if we...

[84:04]

Like, I think this is like lifetimes of practice. It's not just getting it right this time. So you're sort of, we talked about, I guess, entering the path. And the other is that I was thinking if we see ourselves as not just practicing for ourself, so that actually each person's... I mean, however, I don't know if I'm saying this right, but that each person's effort to purify or each little step is kind of like for the benefit of all beings. If you're not just practicing for yourself in a way, you kind of can get with that energy in a sense that may help. Seeing it as wider than just you're working out your own... Your own thing. Because it's like you said, this whole thing is just so pervasive. I mean, for one person to actually, even for a moment, to turn it around or be around somebody, see somebody else actually, you know, have somebody give you the extra change back or whatever it is could actually be a big event for a moment.

[85:08]

So it's kind of like you're not just doing it for your own perfection or something. I don't know if that, you know, is valid, but that's sort of what I thought. It's nine o'clock. I wanted to talk about Zoris. Zori? Zoris. Zoris. Zoris. But I'll maybe do that next time. Oh. Light glass. Okay. So... So we're going to dedicate the merit and then we'll turn towards Avenda, which is over there. Thank you. Happy Day, Our Intention

[86:22]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ