Okay. Thank you, Hosan. Good morning. So as Hosan said, this is the last talk of, I don't know if it's a little too loud, the last talk of the aspects of practice. And we've been studying Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind one more time. We've studied it many times over the years, but it's such a fundamental teaching for us that we always get something new and different depending on where we are in our practice. And so Aspects of Practice is led by Ho Sun and practice leaders. And so everybody's been giving different talks from different sections of the book. And so the ones I chose are original Buddhism,

[02:01]

And the one after that is beyond consciousness. So I'm going to read from this and comment, and then hopefully we'll have time for some discussion. And maybe the other practice leaders would like to say something, too, once I'm done. Could you, Leslie, keep track of the time for me a little bit? So we have to end when? Before 11.15. We have to begin at 11.15. Okay. All right. So maybe by 11. Is that 15 minutes enough time for a discussion, or should we allow more? So what are you saying, Gary?

[03:12]

Okay, so five to eleven then. So we have this wonderful rain, Dharma rain that we need, but it's kind of warm too, humid. So original Buddhism, actually, we are not the Soto school at all. That's a strong statement to begin with. We are just Buddhists. We're not even Zen Buddhists. If we understand this point, we are truly Buddhists. His walking, standing, sitting, and lying down are the four activities or ways of behavior in Buddhism. Zazen is not one of the four ways of behavior. And according to Dogen Senji, the Soto school is not one of the many schools of Buddhism.

[04:20]

He's going to compare the different postures with different schools of Buddhism and say that Zazen is not one of the postures, and therefore Zen school is not one of the schools of Buddhism. The Chinese Soto school may be one of the many schools of Buddhism. Laurie, did you want to say something about that? No? Not at all? Okay. So he's putting another Chinese sort of school, maybe one of the many schools of Buddhism, but according to Dogen, his way was not one of the many schools. If this is so, you may ask why we put emphasis on the sitting posture, or why we put emphasis on having a teacher. The reason is because Zazen is not just one of the four ways of behavior. Zazen is a practice which contains innumerable activities.

[05:25]

Zazen started even before Buddha and will continue forever. So Zazen started before Buddha. Well, Zazen is just the state of the universe. So I guess if we think about it that way, then it doesn't begin or end with the historical line of Buddhism. or sometimes we think that they're celestial buddhas and Shakyamuni was just one of the manifestations of a celestial buddha. There are buddhas practicing in other realms and so in this human realm and in this earthly realm then we have Shakyamuni Buddha. But that's sort of more of a mythological kind of teaching versus the yogic position, Zazen's position of yoga didn't begin with Buddhism because the Buddha borrowed from Hinduism.

[06:43]

Usually people put emphasis on some particular position or some particular understanding of Buddhism. So this kind of position, you know, you take positions about this or that. And then they think, this is Buddhism. So then Buddhism becomes just an ism. So the fine line is sort of how to be a Buddhist. without identifying with the ism of Buddhism as one of the many religions or Soto as one of the many schools of Buddhism. So you're a Buddhist without the ism. But we cannot compare our way with the practices people normally understand. Our teaching cannot be compared to other teachings of Buddhism. This is why we should have a teacher who does not attach to any particular understanding of Buddhism.

[07:57]

So the teaching is beyond the doctrine, even though we have a doctrine. But the teaching is beyond teaching. Neither teaching nor not teaching. So we don't get too attached to teaching. And even though we study quite a bit, we don't get attached to the ideas that we study. And I think Sojin pretty much embodies that, this teaching of, at least in my opinion, people may see it differently, embodies this teaching of Suzuki Roshi of not being attached to any particular understanding of Buddhism. Because Buddha was the founder of the teaching, people tentatively called his teaching Buddhism.

[09:02]

But actually, Buddhism is not some particular teaching or an ism, as I said. Buddhism is just truth, which includes various truths in it. Zazen practice is the practice which includes the various activities of life. So sometimes, you know, in the text here, the truth is capitalized. And sometimes people take issue with that nowadays because difference between, you know, the truth versus truths in plural. This is kind of the postmodern understanding of truth. It's a perspectival understanding of truth, depending on where you're standing and what you see. But this is actually a reference to Nagarjuna's two truths, absolute truth and relative truth.

[10:02]

But absolute truth is not an absolute knowledge or an absolute teaching. The absolute truth is simply emptiness as the foundation of existence, but it doesn't have any particular formulation attached to it. So there is no formulation. nothing can be said within the realm of the relative about this absolute truth. So we just practice it. So that's why he emphasizes we just practice that in the many activities as opposed to formulating some kind of absolute knowledge or philosophy or theory. But the relative truth is also a truth. So relative truth according to the circumstances So we may use various teachings, skillful means, according to the circumstances, to manifest this capital T, truth.

[11:09]

But without ever getting attached to this particular expedient teaching at any particular situation or involving any particular person and so on, that that's the absolute truth. because then we have a kind of attachment to a particular way of thinking, and then that becomes a form of ego. Then he says, how to sit is how to act. We study how to act by sitting, and this is the most basic activity for us. That is why we practice Zazen in this way, to know how to live our life moment to moment. And so we do sashin and we sit a lot, but we have various activities.

[12:14]

We sit zazen and we do walking meditation and then we do service. which is more devotional. We do bowing practice so we don't get arrogant with the aspiration to escalate the very sky, as Dogen says, if we can get a little too idealistic sometimes when we sit zazen. So we have to keep going, like moving water to the different activities. And so when we sit sasheen, we're practicing how to do that, how to go through the different activities. Then we have work period, shorter periods, longer periods, stretching, talks. And so all these are different activities. So we just go from one activity to the next and manifest our awakened mind in that way.

[13:26]

So he says everything is Buddha's activity, so whatever you do or even if you keep from doing something, Buddha is in that activity. So even if we don't do something or there's some separation between what we're doing and what our mental state is or our mind gets clouded because we enter into some kind of stressful interaction with other people in the context of practice, which happens, and we'll say more about delusion in a little bit, but if you do that, if you keep from doing something, and you get distracted or thrown off by some stress or anger or greed or power dynamic. So he says just say this, just recognize that as delusion at that moment.

[14:37]

So one is that we don't act out delusion. So you may have deluded feelings and thinking, unwholesome feelings or thinking. We don't act it out. That's the first step. And then the second step is you recognize it within yourself even though you don't act it out. And we say, this is just delusion. And then when we say this is just delusion, then that's enlightenment. And then The more we do that, little by little, those impulses that create disharmony clear out. That's continuous practice over a long time. Because people have no such understanding of Buddha, they think that what they do is the most important thing without knowing who it is that is actually doing it.

[15:47]

People think they're doing various things, but actually Buddha is doing everything. So we have all these different names. We have both birth names and ordination names. But names are all within the realm of the relative, even though that's also Buddha. So we have to find Buddha in the relative aspect of ourselves. But also, we're more than our names. So when you called, who was responding? And how are you responding? So we practice so that we may listen with Buddha's ears and respond with who we really are or we really want to be. each one of us has his own name but those names are the many names of Buddha.

[17:01]

So Zazen is all the postures and each posture is Buddha's posture. This understanding is the right understanding of the Zazen posture. So he's teaching us how do we understand what Zazen is or what the Zazen posture is. Is it something special or is it in everything that we do, in all the postures, not just in the sitting posture. If you practice in this way, it is Buddhism. perhaps Buddhism without the ism. This is a very, very important point. So Dogen did not call himself a Soto teacher, a Soto disciple. He said, other people may call us the Soto school, but there's no reason for us to call ourselves Soto. I don't know how the Soto shoe feels about this and whether this... And this is Suzuki Roshi sort of wanting us to have some distance from the Soto Shu or from the Soto institution.

[18:15]

And we're kind of in the middle of that. And Sojin also wants us to kind of be part of it on the one hand, on the other hand, not be part of it in the same way. And I think different ones of us represent those different aspects. I think Hosuh now is the president of the Soto Association, right? You mean the Soto Association? But there's no reason for us to call ourselves Soto. You should not even use the name of Soto. No school should consider itself a separate school.

[19:17]

It should just be one tentative form of Buddhism. I like that. One tentative form of Buddhism. Yes. This isn't consistent with what you just said that we get a great idea and then we vow to keep humble. So I know what I'm enlightened here and then I'm humbled and again I know my practice and yet I'm humbled by not knowing. Sort of being Soto without being Soto, something like that. So we must accept, so he says, but as long as the various schools do not accept this kind of understanding, So the other schools of Buddhism don't accept this kind of understanding, meaning that everybody's attached to their particular version of Buddhism as being the true vehicle of the true Buddhism. So as long as they continue calling themselves by their particular names, we must accept the tentative name of Soto.

[20:20]

But I want to make this point clear. Actually, we're not the Soto school at all. So this is from the epigraph. We are just Buddhists. We're not even Zen Buddhists. We're just Buddhists. If we understand this point, then we're truly Buddhists. And then he goes on to religion. The religion is not any particular teaching. Religion is everywhere. We have to understand our teaching in this way. We should forget all about some particular teaching. We should not ask which is good or bad. So I, you know, like this and like that. Or sometimes people think, well, if I take the best of this one and the best of this one and the best of this one and I put it all together, then I have the best religion. But it doesn't work that way. We should forget all about some particular teaching.

[21:29]

We should not ask, okay, I've said that already. There should not be any particular teaching. Teaching is in each moment in every existence. That is the true teaching. So that's that section. How are we doing with time? It's 22, so you have a few minutes. Okay. Maybe a little bit to say something about beyond consciousness. He says, we should establish our practice where there's no practice or enlightenment. So practice where there's no practice. So we just practice without any particular idea or attachment to, oh, I am practicing, or I practice. So this is, do you practice or you don't practice? How much do you practice? So that's why we have this teaching of going beyond ongoing, going beyond ongoing practice, so we don't even make something out of ongoing practice.

[22:43]

Even though we say, well, we've been sitting for all this time, we shouldn't get too attached to that. So we just practice. As long as we practice Zazen in the area where there's practice and enlightenment, there's no chance to make perfect peace for ourselves. So we get attached to practice or enlightenment, then that steers our mind and brings up delusion. In other words, we must firmly believe in our true nature. So here he's using this term, true nature. So it's interesting. Nature, you know, what do we mean by nature? Do we mean by nature the same thing that science means by nature?

[23:49]

Is it the same nature? We call it Buddha nature, but that's just one way of speaking about it. And then he says, our true nature is beyond our conscious experience. It's beyond consciousness. This is the consciousness beyond consciousness. So it's an awareness without a self-consciousness. There's some, Suzuki Roshi, other place will say, it's like grabbing your pillow in the middle of the night in total darkness. So it's beyond conscious and unconscious. So awakening is beyond sleep and being awake. It is only in our conscious experience or in consciousness that we find practice and enlightenment are good and bad.

[24:52]

So consciousness is within the realm of duality, and often people associate Buddhism with the study of consciousness, but it's not this kind of consciousness. But whether or not we have experience of our true nature, what exists there beyond consciousness actually exists, and it's there that we have to establish the foundation of our practice. In fact, to harbor some ill will may be even better than to have some idea in your mind of what is good or what you ought to do. So this is kind of radical, beyond good and evil Buddhism. Because if you get attached to the good, then you fall into fundamentalism. And then fundamentalism is turned by delusion.

[26:00]

To have some mischievous idea in your mind is sometimes very agreeable. It's kind of heretical, but heretical in the sense of how science is heretical with respect to religion. meaning that you practice something beyond a dogma or beyond a fixation to a particular configuration of the teaching to find out how things really are beyond authority, beyond established authority, beyond Soto Shu in our case. says, do not, but then on the other hand, do not try to stop your mind, but leave everything as it is. Then things will not stay in your mind so long.

[27:05]

Things will come as they come and go as they go. Then eventually your clear, empty mind will last fairly long. So even though the empty mind, clear, empty mind is impermanent. Last long, not forever. because you can't really separate permanence from impermanence or delusion from enlightenment. So we're always falling into delusion and bringing ourselves back to enlightenment. But delusion is the ground by which we stand up and take the erect position as humans. So to have a firm conviction in the original emptiness of your mind is the most important thing in your practice.

[28:11]

In Buddhist scriptures we sometimes used our vast analogies in an attempt to describe empty mind. Sometimes we use an astronomically great number so great it is beyond counting. And these are the uncountable numbers, which is also something that Cantor discovered in mathematics. Innumerable or uncountable numbers, which will help you to stop the thinking of your small mind. So then he makes the point about establishing our practice in delusion. So that's where we practice. We practice in delusion or with delusion, but realizing that this is delusion.

[29:13]

Because when you just observe the delusion, you have your true mind, your calm, peaceful mind. When you start to cope with the delusion, you will be involved in delusion. So what does it mean when you try to cope with delusion? What do I do with this? Do I act it out or do I act it out? Is this greed, hate, and delusion? So am I defending some belief that it's some kind of delusion? Should I assert it or should I not assert it? Should I say something? Should I not say something? So these are all the different ways of coping with delusion. But fundamentally, it's better, according to Suzuki Roshi, just to say, this is just delusion. So he says, usually religion develops itself in the realm of consciousness, seeking to perfect its organization, building beautiful buildings, creating music, evolving a philosophy, and so forth.

[30:41]

These are the religious activities in the conscious world. But Buddhism emphasizes the world of unconsciousness. So that's unexpected. So it's the unconscious big mind that's always with us, either enlightening us or tricking us into delusion. I think that comes from D.T. Suzuki. D.T. Suzuki, there was a famous book on Zen and psychoanalysis with D.T. Suzuki and Eric Fromm, and that was the whole point of the cross, the bridge between East and West was around this notion of unconsciousness, which people think, well, isn't that not being mindful? What is mindfulness in the context of consciousness beyond consciousness?

[31:51]

It's more like mindlessness than mindfulness. Because usually people associate mindfulness with consciousness. But then that goes straight down the path of the ego. And selling something, some product, a holistic new age product in the marketplace. And that's also the teaching of Tyson Deshimaro, which is where I sat for the first time in the Paris Dendo. He spoke about Zen and the unconscious quite a bit as well, because he knew that that was a way to get people interested in Buddhism in the Paris cultural ambient of that time. Yes, the other question? Is awareness in a sense unconsciousness?

[32:55]

Well, if we... awareness is not the same as consciousness. Like, I would say, because consciousness is always consciousness of something, of an object. You become conscious of something, of an object, whereas awareness is like a free-floating awareness without any specific object. So you're free to, it's a kind of panoramic awareness that kind of dissipates into unconsciousness. So that's why Suzuki Roshi sometimes could be a little absent-minded. So you're a Zen teacher, if not a master. How are you absent-minded? So I think that kind of absent-mindedness refers to this kind of panoramic awareness where you may be focusing on something else instead of what you think the focus is at that moment.

[34:05]

But awareness is also, if enlightenment is grabbing a pillow while you're sleeping, You're not awake in the sense of vigilance or attention, but it's still an awakened state. So that's the mystery. This is a mystery, really. Awareness is a mystery, so that's why it's awareness, the Buddha awareness is like the ninth consciousness in the Mahayana theory of consciousness, which is past the unconscious, which is the eighth consciousness. And so consciousness are all the other, the sense consciousness, the analytical consciousness, the self-consciousness, All those are usually what we associate with consciousness and awareness. But this kind of awareness doesn't... What is it?

[35:21]

Let me say that instead of adding more to it. OK, so we're going to start with questions now. But I wanted to, before a question, I don't know if the practice leaders who have been leading this aspects, I would like to give you the opportunity to say something about this or anything else, if you would like. Otherwise, we just go to questions. Peter? I have a question. You have a question? OK. Hozen, did you want to say something? Do you want to share? That has been really a guide for me.

[36:36]

The practice leaders here, you and I, we have our root in a tradition. And at the same time, we have the opportunity to live in a world ethics or what we individually or collectively might view as right activity, but it comes out of a collective and open spirit of inquiry rather than a doctrinaire spirit of inquiry.

[38:03]

It just seems to me we're so much in need of that right now. Thank you, Hosa. Peter, you had a question? I think Judy actually, we're going to go to questions. Judy had her hand first up. Okay, Peter then. Peter, Judy. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. Yes. Because you can't help having impulses and feelings and tendencies. So that's going to arise spontaneously and you can't get rid of it.

[39:10]

So the first point is not to act it out, because then you do, you know, sort of, I mean, there's different ways, different levels of karma. If you feed that within yourself, that's one kind of karma, but if you act it out and hurt somebody else, then that's a different kind of karma. So is it intuitive? Yeah, I think if you feel stirred in such a way that it feels that you're off. There's something there that you can recognize as unwholesome or not to the benefit of all, including yourself and others. Huh? Yeah, you may recognize it without breaking it down and analyzing it, what it is. Although that may have its place too. Right.

[40:17]

Well, sometimes you have to have some understanding of it so that you don't act it out. Because then if you just act it out and lash out, then you, you either, you may, sometimes people can't help acting in certain ways, even though they recognize that they have certain problems and they can't help themselves. So you have to sort of, uh, and maybe that's a kind of group process. Other people can help also. So I have a tendency for anger and I, when I get angry, I just see red and, uh, You know, that happens to me, so please help me. Right? So then other people say, okay, now this is happening right now. I'm getting angry. You're getting angry. So what do we do now? How do we practice with this now?

[41:18]

So other people can help too, knowing if, But for other people to help you, you have to be able to recognize what your propensity is, or what your delusion is, and not hide it under a cover, a veneer of enlightenment, or New Age ideology, or whatever it may be. Yes, let me ask other people that haven't asked before. Oh, Judy, yes, see? There's something that's really been weighing delusion. Just in the last few days, there was a black man in a wheelchair who was selling the street paper. And this young white guy just came out of nowhere and punched him in the face. And then the guy that was punched, you know, was in shock. And you know, somebody run after him.

[42:23]

And in this climate, who I know a little, you know, we've talked. And I asked him about it. And, you know, it was a very distressing thing to hear in the climate of, you know, all these kinds of incidents. But there's this also piece around, you know, how am I going to work with this the privilege that I walk around with, or in my neighborhood, in my culture, in my community. And, you know, I've just heard about, in my neighborhood, how that's playing out, and how it's playing out in this country. And it's sort of this question of Like, on this edge of, how does big mind meet big brother, meet propaganda, meet information overload, and you don't know what's true, you only know that when you hear that story, you want to do something.

[43:42]

And I'm wondering, how do you work with that? How can we work with that in terms of this aspect of, I think you were saying that the Well, the thing is to recognize it's not happening out there. So that angry impulse is also in you, even if it's of the opposite political persuasion. So that's the first part, to recognize it in us so that we all take some responsibility for that and practice with our own anger, with our own rage. And the privilege, you know, I grew up in Chile, and I went through the socialist revolution there, and we never used the term privilege.

[44:47]

It's kind of an American term. North American. Thank you, Ross. I mean, there's the question of solidarity with different people, different cultures, different nationalities, because, you know, The nationality is a form of ego. It's the equivalent at the level of the individual of what happens at the level of the state. So we get identified with that. We identify consciously or unconsciously with class, but we don't recognize that until we're put in a situation where that issue is brought to us. So there we have to practice something where we may be thinking, have a distinction of class, even if you are against.

[45:56]

class struggle. I mean, even if you are, I mean, remember the socialists and the communists in Chile, and my uncle was a member of the Communist Party. But some were identified with the working class, others were identified with the intelligentsia, because the revolution was seen as coming out of an alliance of the intellectuals with the working class. But they were, you couldn't tell if you looked at them or the way they lived, they're the same as the bourgeoisie. So. Which group was the same? Some aspects of the socialists and the Communist Party, you know, they, I don't know. You were talking about either the intelligentsia and the working class. Which group was like the bourgeoisie? Oh, the intelligentsia. So even though they had all the political ideology, when it came to kind of day-to-day practice and living with other people, you know, there's this awareness about, you know, clothing and property and different things like that, or ways of speaking the language, which is another way that it comes out, your accent and how you speak, what particular vernacular you use, you know, and produces different reactions in people.

[47:28]

So I think that the privilege refers to some kind of, you know, kind of entitled social ego of some kind. And it's based on different things for different people. And it can be easily unconscious. So that's, we have to practice with that to become more aware of our attitude or how we hold ourselves in relationship to the other. That's the response. Yes, Jerry. So I started thinking maybe you should be turned into a fox. a fox yes why is that? oh was I saying that that we're free from karma? No, beyond consciousness is not the same as beyond karma.

[48:55]

Well, we have to be aware of the law of karma, so that's part of it, being aware of our delusion, because that's where the law of karma is operating. Um, and whether we stimulate our, you know, our sense of entitlement or rage or, or, or being, uh, being right or being, um, let's see, uh, um, self-righteous or self-righteousness, but that we stimulate that within ourselves or we don't. So there's a choice there and that has something to do with karma, but it's not that you're going to be free of karma. We're always working with delusion. We're always working with karma. But if I were to turn into a fox, that would be okay. That would be okay. I like foxes, actually. I had a close encounter with a fox once in the marine headlands.

[50:04]

But, yes. What is your name? Yes. Patty. Hi, Patty. Hi. Hi. Can we go back to the point you were making about awareness that is problematic to create good consciousness? Yes. How they're different, awareness from consciousness. Yes. Oh. So awareness is a kind of consciousness without self-consciousness. But usually what we call consciousness is wrapped around self-consciousness. Of self as subject or the other as object. So when we become aware of sort of the ideas that we have about ourselves and say, well, if it's a deluded idea, then we say that's delusion.

[51:14]

Oh, I notice that I'm identified with this way of thinking about myself or the way that other people think about me, whether it's positive or negative. So just not be under the grip of that thought. So I would say that's the place where awareness and consciousness part ways. And now there are ideas about conscious uncoupling, when they talk about divorce, or conscious parenting, when they talk about Consciousness raising, right? Is that a marketing tool? Well, no, I wouldn't say exactly.

[52:17]

I think that that may be a combination of both awareness and consciousness. I mean, trying to be aware as a parent is the same practice because, I mean, being a parent is sort of an impossible task. You're always going to, there's no perfect parenting. You're always going to fail, fall short on this side or that side. You're either going to be too permissive or you're going to be too authoritarian. And there's no golden middle. The middle sometimes is over here and sometimes is over there, but we're always falling off. you know, either becoming sort of laissez-faire or becoming too authoritarian. So I guess conscious parenting there is becoming aware of that process. And then what happens to you in the process of parenting? Because, you know, parents, I mean, you know, bedtime battles, bathroom battles.

[53:24]

Screen. Huh? Screen. Screen? Oh, the screen is the internet, right? Is that what you mean by it? Yes. You know, they want to do something, you think they should be doing something else. And there's a battle that takes place. And how do you handle that? How do you sort of stand in your place where you feel like that's your responsibility as a parent, but without losing it under provocation? Or sometimes you will lose it. And then bringing yourself back or accepting that sometimes you will lose it despite your best attempts. Great time. Thank you very much.

[54:23]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ