Naturalness

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good morning
i am
a lovely fall morning
so we are right in the middle of our aspects of practice period in which we have been the senior students are leading and giving talks and classes and where where a drawing our selections from them books and mind beginner's mind by so
suzuki roshi kind of a seminal seminal work around here
and i and i think we've all x for many of us have experienced this thing where it you know you read it in it sounds so smooth and you take it and so easily and then it's like we could have subtitled the practice period to send mind beginner's mind what do you say because there's just this what
when you try to actually drilled down and talk about it or think about it so and yet there's kind of also a common thread i think so i i picked the someone at random actually picked the chapter naturalness and
i've really been hearing all the talks that other people have given that that some common threads and and in fact i had the experience which i don't always have that it was everywhere you know that kind of thing or suddenly you
once i committed to okay i told the other senior students i'm i'm doing naturalness and then it was to the word was everywhere in every color and in every class for sure but also just on billboards and and you know i i really thought i would remember them all like that you know i but i can only remember what
soccer which was the license plate for arkansas arkansas the natural state
what does that even mean
and it's just been a busy time and so i want you to know that i've had really brilliant thoughts on this topic during various periods of sauce and that i've been sitting and you'll you'll just have to take my word for it
but i want you to know
so
oh missing page one who looks
so the shape of my talk is i think i just just in the printing print from that's fine
the shape of my talk is going to be kind of like an argument with suzuki roshi so i'm gonna give him the first word here

naturalness
moment after moment everyone comes out from nothingness every one comes out from nothingness this is the true joy of life
there is a big misunderstanding about the idea of naturalness most people who come to us believe in some freedom or naturalness but their understanding is what we call jenin can gado or heretical naturalness
jenin can gado means that there's no need to be formal just a kind of let alone policy or sloppiness this is naturalness for most people and when i was thinking about this this morning i was remembering that suzuki okay son says hiroshi his wife was told me once that used to r
shh people's feet like me you know the hippies who came to the zendo in the for early days like they're just going around barefoot and then they go into this zendo with their dirty feet i don't didn't you i never heard that from anyone else but she was like i used to wash people's feet in her very special expression was not like hall and what people's be
know
so that's kind of known an example
oh the other kind of heretical naturalness
but that is not the naturalness we mean it is rather difficult to explain but naturalness is i think some feeling of being independent from everything or some activity which is based on nothingness something which comes out of nothingness is naturalness like a seed or plant coming out with the ground
of being some particular plant but it has it's own form and is in perfect harmony with the ground with its surroundings as it grows in the course of time it expresses its nature nothing exists without form and color whatever it is it has some form and color and that form and color are in perfect harmony with other
beings and there is no trouble that is what we mean by naturalness
for a plant or stone to be natural is no problem but for us there is some problem indeed a big problem to be natural is something which we must work on when what you do just comes out from nothingness you have quite a new feeling for instance when you are hungry to take some food is naturalness you feel
natural but when you are expecting too much to have some food is not natural you have no new feeling you have no appreciation for it the true practice of zazen is to sit as if drinking water when you are thirsty there you have naturalness
so
i want to say so i don't think we can call like a whole set of things that were built to do unnatural
right so
you know natural selection actual selection
so there and so there's things were built to do were built with a sense of identity and a survival instinct a strong sense of identity and a survival instinct
they were built to feel anxiety when we feel threatened when we're threatened where were were built to feel things when things happen we've built to feel feelings when things happen and you know the sex drive there's a reason why the sex drive is so strong
you know
we can do many things with sex and to express it in many different ways but the reason why it is so strong i e the reason why it feels so good is because it's tied to reproduction it it's nature's plan and that's the reason why it can be really a great thing and also why it can
be a really bad thing because it's it's fundamental to our nature
were built with an us and them actually i mean if you if you've read the book buddha's brain it's kind of hard to accept but our sense of us evolved in tandem with our sense of them so our altruism feels really good we feel
the best supposedly when when we're with our group defending against them against the other we we are more we are more willing to sacrifice our lives and ourselves and various things for the group when there is a threat
when there isn't other that's the keeping that other side
this is it's how it evolved
and
something i was gonna say bathroom with separate them
so anyway these many things on their natural their natural feelings and frames of mind and and instincts and such so i don't want to frame those
as i mean this is different from wearing you know going barefoot and wearing your your your bare feet into the zendo that are being sloppy or laissez faire something this is to me it's different so he posits his you know naturalists emptiness against this kind of sloppiness but i want to positive against
natural selection and how we're built and also how were trained like like what happens to us in our life from childhood on is a strong influence on what what we do how we think how we framed thing so for example you know if you're
mother or father second grade teacher was supercritical you know that didn't feel good but you are trained to with the idea that that was net that was a normal or that was even what love feels like possibly
so everything that happens to us and we're trained unconsciously mostly retrained unconsciously
we're trained in this snm thing unconsciously so
i also want to say that that's natural
it's natural that were built that way were built to receive the training as children of our environment and to create an understanding of the world through that experience
i'm so now i'm gonna take suzuki roshi side of the argument because there's other things about how we're built that i think are more inline with what he's saying
so for example i was thinking of lie detector tests like a lie detector test
is noting physiological changes that happened when we tell a lot when we tell it something that we that we know as a lie so to me that says that there's some thing about how we're built
that
that is you know this idea that the precepts are natural that they're coming out of emptiness they're coming out of some natural
truth deeper truth perhaps so you might end up in a situation where years survival instinct is pointing one way and the true you telling the truth is is another but in any case you it affects us so it's written in ourselves these the premier know and i was you know i've been working with
veterans i worked for this veterans organization now and i've been reading a bunch of stories of veterans and like one common thread is you know people go in so young to be veterans are so young and they're often it's often an act in a way of
actually breaking out of for some people like you know your family were in were better or were you know in the service and so you do but for some people they're feeling lost or their life is spinning out of control and this seems like an option to do something meaningful to be of service and it sort of like out of what you
you plan to do and you're very young and it's very much predicate on this us and them quality so to serve your country to to which feels good in if it were built for that to feel good
and you are also you're young year learning how to do something usually something very specific like you know the machine part of this bloody bar your built to make something work to learn how to make something work and that's something that's working might have to do with armaments or weaponry but your focuses on learning how to make this part work
so you're like twenty one two thousand and two your trot you're being a kind of the grown up for the first time you're trying to learn how to make this thing work it's really important you feel strongly this us and them thing and then it works and you suddenly realize that a bunch of people died i this is
half i've read this and several different people's stories and at that moment
pretty universally there's a feeling like one one guy described as well that's messed up
it's like you suddenly aren't they aren't them suddenly and you couldn't help you can't help that and then probably doesn't happen for everybody maybe some people are able to keep it as them them nam you know but for a significant number of people that moment in that moment you realize that they're not them
it comes from inside
i'm so that's another example i was also thinking you know just the upright posture so
we were built to have an upright posture
and various things about way how were trained my habits hum
change our posture but that's not how our bill is not good for us it's not it's not helpful it's not wholesome it doesn't work well so
he even though it's natural in a way if you're scared to hunch your shoulders is also natural
the the deeper or mean i'm getting into the tricky area here but the natural or and half true illness is to have an upright posture
i've been you know i can my i've had some difficulty with my back and i learned some new back exercises i want to share with your wonderful
so there's this whole thing about the core engaging your core so this new kind of back exercises all about how your back is part of your core and what they call is to wake up the posterior chain
which sounds very abstract but it's and you know but the thing is dawson is actually all about the posterior chain and i think one of the reasons i had such a dramatic response to these exercises is because part of my back has been trained already
somehow i just i lost the lower part somehow so
this put that when they describe to do which i found a very useful is to imagine that there's an umbrella inside your chest and you're gonna lift an open it so it's in there your lungs are going to expand in all in thirty six three and sixty degrees so on the inhale
you can lift the umbrella and open it
and then on the exhale keep it open keep it up and exhale through your lower abdomen and push your lower abdomen against your spine
and then on the next inhale open it lifted up more and open it up more
and then push it out from here
but keep it up
and then open it up on the third one even more
and push it out and then relax but i found this and i mean you know you always need a little bit of a new way because where i was lift the sooner and left the sternum you know which is this is the same thing but this is sort of i like it because it's got some imagery
so this is how we're built were built to be upright and and hold our bodies upright and then you know we can make those analogies to upright life too
see how far let's see
trying to remember where i was gonna go after that now
sault st the next election if i forgot something so be it
so he says this naturalness is very difficult to explain
but if you can just sit and experience the actuality of nothingness in your practice there's no need to explain if it comes out of nothingness whatever you do is natural and that is true activity you have the joy true joy of practice the true true joy of life in it everyone comes
out from nothingness moment after moment moment after moment we have true joy of life so we say shin kumiko you from true emptiness the wondrous being appears shin is true crew is emptiness mio is wondrous who is being from
true emptiness wondrous being occurs oh just wonder is being from true emptiness wonders being without nothingness there is no naturalness no true be true being comes out of nothingness moment after moment nothingness is always there and from it everything appears but
usually for getting all about nothingness you behave as if you have something what you do is based on some possessive idea or some concrete idea and that is not natural
so when we have something
it's like work that's were carrying things over from the previous moment right that's that's howard that's the training that sour built as things roll out from one previous moment to the next so how do we find this
what he's talking about this naturalness that's coming out of emptiness
alan and i
took out before he i want to say back on side one how or maybe site owner which my side supposed to suit qureshi said i think i think mike the core of my point with that is that i don't think we should be super blamey about how
ourselves or other people are unfolding according to how we're built and hell were trained like that's just normal that it it's like everything this moment is coming to us from our everything that's happened before and you know you you just have to access
kept it as it is which doesn't mean accepted as okay it's like to not blame is not to exonerate right there's a little gap in there you just are getting out of the game of blame and
i think it's an important first step to just receive the world as it is and then
take a breath and maybe this is how you find the emptiness you know we actually we we react we can't change that we're gonna react don't that's not where you put your your practice
if you react and then you know according to science they say now there's a ninety seconds what you know of a response is gonna last ninety seconds period it's not going to be shorter than that if you keep rubbing it it will go longer but it's gonna go ninety seconds so take ninety seconds
to take a breath and turn your attention to what's going on in your body with friendliness
and then maybe this appropriate response will come out of the emptiness and i can't we can't say what that's gonna be because it's coming out of that moment and it's gonna only express
itself in this world
of how we're built in our trained
so a allen and i took a road trip recently and we were listening to
bob dylan's same time radio our know if you're familiar with it it is so awesome it's all awesomely amazing i highly recommended and to of the most amazing ones i think are the one he has these they're all songs by theme so the theme of the devil which i wouldn't
of even listened to if i wasn't just listening to them consecutively and eyes really good ones and i noticed that there was a song called the devil eight lazy
and you know we don't have the devil but we have
how we're built and how were trained we have habits we have habit energy and delusion and confusion and the discrepancy between how we're perceiving things and how we actually are like that's what we have instead of the devil
maybe i pause it and so this in this song he says the devil will turn you any way but loose
and i was thinking that that sense of looseness to me is a little bit of
what where i go when i think about this emptiness like the moment arrives whatever's going on
there's perfect freedom you can do anything you're not controlled by anything that's happened before

so just want to give a few examples different kinds of examples and them i hope there's plenty of time i want to hear your examples to
so elegant i did this trip i can't really go into the details but
we were we had a thing we were doing and it involved going door to door
and
we in another city you know and you know it really doesn't matter it could have been anywhere and it could have been for any reason for my story it doesn't matter in fact if there's been no reason it would have almost been even better and you know going door to door most of us don't like it and allen as i
oh and put it in a in a meeting he said i love to talk to people
but i don't like thrusting myself on someone's notice when they haven't invited me hit the that's kind of when it feels like to go to order so we're in the car were trying to find your way around the city i'm trying to learn i have an iphone with google maps he wants me to use his android with ways i'm trying to learn how to use his android
and ways and were bickering and there's all these me leaflet material flyers going everywhere in the clipboard with the address keep losing the page and and you know you have to pee and you have to figure out where you're going to pee i mean it's so uncomfortable
and and you know you're doing this thing and no one's home and that you know like it's not bad but it's it's not that comfortable it's ineffective it's very uncomfortable but then like maybe three quarters away through the first day i'm like
i think i'm enjoying this
and it's almost like there's two levels of feeling sometimes i don't i don't know if you have that experience but there's been if you can if you can
can take and if you can what's the word include how uncomfortable it is just except how uncomfortable it is
not like a paper that over something then this other feeling is underneath there any it was somehow it was the feeling of being out with everybody like the parents are getting their kids ready for halloween and they're doing their thing and i'm doing my thing and we're all out in the comments or something
unlike said it would have been even better if we were going door to door and thing what are you going through course that but apply to been very scary for people who knows
even creepier maybe
but
and you know i noticed i also i have i think we will have the experience where we have a conscious intention and then the unconscious intention takes over so you can have a conscious like you know i'm going to the public but i'm only get have one cookie or i'm not going to have the chocolate or i made a lotta but then you go to the potluck and is something else takes over and you just fabulous what happens
it's like you may have had a conscious intention but the other conditions were not contributing so you just but another thing i've noticed lately as a couple times i've had the other are the opposite where i i'm consciously being stingy and then my mouth opens and and it says the generous thing it's like weird you know
like you know it's a senior student meeting one time you know jake's like well who was gonna take minutes and on i was like i'm not me it's not my turn am and i have to go find something hard for the person to to run and i was like i'm not going to do it is not now and then i come up so i'll do it my mouth just opened in it said i'll do it
completely separate
a
and you know that's just happened a couple of times few times

i was also thinking that i think that when i first got into cooking cooking has been like a thread through my life i worked as a cook and restaurant cook at different times and
i was about one a one or twenty two i think my feeling is that for me cooking kidding interested in cooking or learning how to cook was like it had nothing to do with hello how i was built or how i was drained i don't know where it came from
and you know of course in the meantime it's it's become a thing of training you have to learn how to cook but i think my first impulse if i think about it it has that feeling of loose something loose you know like i stepped through an invisible door or something

and so i'm worried about setting up a dichotomy here between
what you could say
howard built had trained and then our vows you know we're on the other side
because actually vows are just more about how we're built and trained and buddhist teaching in i like you heard buddha's teaching you decided to try it you came here you are curious and then you fat some thousand so i mean you're you've accepted us as a part of your trent training now
now
coming here and doing this is part of what's training you
and so most of everything is all on the side of how that the world as it is and it's as it's unfolding is all about this you know how we're built in that were trained and how everything is built
and so you know he's putting emptiness that seems to be the safest thing to put on the other side form and emptiness that seems to be where we come down and maybe up his thinking well what's on the other side like maybe basic goodness or basic sanity or
intuition you know in in hypnotherapy there's this thing about your higher power
that sort of on the side of of emptiness may be or you know i remember wrong nestor is wrong here
one time you said maybe it's a lower power
a present students as may be more of a lower power
something like that is is on the side but the only you know
basic goodness or basic sanity or emptiness or higher power higher self lower power they it can only manifest through form through what's happening through how we're built and how were trained there's no manifestation outside of that
so we have to manifest that if it were if we if we wanted to become manifest you know it's like what's say the lord's prayers like the kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven or it's like
basic goodness made manifest in the world it if there's no other place to manifest it it's gotta be manifest through us through our vows through our activity based on vow instead of based on these habitual trains of you know chains of reaction that we
that we have
see
oh right and so there's this is the perfect freedom the freedom there is some kind of looseness or freedom that we can experience and i want to hear your stories if you've ever experienced it even if it's a completely different way than mine
you can do anything in this moment there's nothing controlling it even though this whole thing is built and when it once it happens you see how it was in line with everything that came before but still there's some moment of freedom and you can you know put your sandals on your head and walk out
or you can you know these are stories from then stories you can make up a story about a dead fox that you see to teach your students or you can you know turn your back on the emperor and walk out you can do that you can do anything there's nothing stopping you but just did you think of doing it did it occur to you to do it did you remember
did you did you have an intuition did something come over you to do it you know to remember friendliness are you know if you're not sure what your vows should be or are we got so many lists for you you can look at them all you can try them all and see if any of them feel right for you
so many i can't even start
yeah i'm not even gonna start
and the question so so how do we find this you know i think that it's it's we have to train we have to train in this we have to train
in
emptiness we have to train and stopping
and returning to emptiness and just feeling the loose you know what is loose what is everything that the you know the devil turns you every which way but loose what is loose
how do you train in that it's really not easy to understand as he says very hard to talk about
you know
it's not hard to try i don't think it's so hard to train and vows exactly so like you could you could come in here very easily without risking anything and say okay i'm gonna sit still for forty minutes or thirty minutes or twenty minutes or ten minutes whatever it is like that's of that you could make that vow
wow
i'm gonna go in that room and i'm going to sit still for ten minutes without moving although you get to lift your sternum if you have lost it
in fact a lot of big part of my zazen is like the battle between who owns this part of my body right do you have that
live is it owned by my vow my vow is to live to expand to relax relax my belly open my breathing or as isn't being owned by the habit that comes into like a little battle going on all the time but that's the tray
painting you know how for training and just sitting still which is unnatural seems unnatural for us but when you settle
when you settle with it there's something loose about it hard to explain hard to describe
or you know i'm going to be in a roomful of people and i'm not going to talk
that's a value could make i'm gonna go into a room full of people and i'm not gonna talk course when your new it's not as hard
when you when you've been here a long time it gets really really hard and if they give you a job it's really hard
really hard fast but these are good things because there's there's sort of low consequent if they sort of you know it's a little training ground you know where instead of like learning how not to lash out when you feel threatened which is a really good thing to learn to do
start with something kind of easy and and and you get it sorted into your body then
then maybe you can
not lash out the next time you feel threatened or like me if you withdraw that's what i do when i feel threatened i go inside maybe i won't do that next time if i can keep training training myself
emptiness
so i'm going to let suzuki roshi have the last word
and then i want to hear you to put there's plenty of time from an idea how much came as left
whatever you do this attitude is necessary sometimes we say new non shin i think that he uses japanese in this chapter a lot and i think that's that to me is indicative of that he's happy that he can't explain what he what he's trying
to say in english so it's sort of i don't know it's a little thrilling to me
new non shin mean soft or flexible mind new is soft feeling non is something which is not hard and shin as mind new non shin means smooth natural mind when you have that mind you have the joy of life when you lose it you lose everything
thing you have nothing except everything btw
although you think you have something you have nothing but when all you do comes out of nothingness then you have everything do you understand that is what we made by natural
yes john and then check the or maybe compromises a certain training i got myself back about the call major
i had to abandon notice it every time we sat down dinner had run about the first
well it seems natural
going to the bathroom what can be more natural math unless you're going door to door
since that observation i realize it is anxiety about going to dinner with anxiety about different things because you feel like and urinate nature's call it natural activity but then i realize now i can put the all in my thinking about x or y and he answered yes
suddenly that urge ha is dissipate ah when i'm sitting in and what the cough i recognize all that could be reading your grief in something in my mind and that chinese medicine why we caught him all i can just embrace my sadness and then the cloth besides drunk
nature's call now thank you jeff
what can look me when you were talking is no not natural or supernatural no not natural almost natural him ah the key for me is what arises for nothing
we talk about returning to the original self we talk about stripping the way causes and conditions each moment as well conditioned and unconditioned from what we respond we talk about the seed store and we talked about the seven eight levels of consciousness crash where do we out from so this is the difference between the sloppy natural
this slapping sloughing naturalness which comes from operating from causes and conditions not been mine for not being aware for me haha whereas if self arises and passes away in each moment and each one with his new arising from a place of balance which is nothingness
what do you see who aren't what will you do this is the difference yes it's national to respond to to a condition of war and ptsd but that's a conditioned response harm comes from that we can also trying to be good we can learn about generosity
learn about the feelings of how it feels to treat each other with equanimity and with grace and compassion that can be a learned behavior to what arises from nothingness
if we think about the coa with a guy is hanging from his teeth by a branch and some moron comes along and tries to get to talk about odp field bodhidharma coming from the west and the garden you know can talk as he'll die how'd you get there what happened just before that moment sometimes for me we don't know what
happen he awoke there you find yourself doing something
that finding is like being possessed what are you possessed by where do you act from when we think about intent when we think about the arising of behavior people talk about hear how we carry an and ten before us and we find the precepts realizing as a condition of our practice
where did that come from that come from nothingness so when i talk about natural as i have to associate with nothing's that's kind of what it means to me yes i can be trained but there was also a stripping away there's also remembering balance of remembering nothingness
to an example for us told
when i first started coming here i came to treat my cancer rate and i had all these ideas about what zen was going to do to help me drain my cancer cells
but what i learned was is that the most natural thing was what cancer was doing so many people treat cancer is if it's a violent fight as if it's a war as if it's a battle is if it's a struggle it's not cancer is as natural as breathing it's doing what cancer does how do i sit inside of that truth
and how do i find myself arising from that place so what happened for me as i lost my fear of death i remembered that the process of living is the same as the process of dying they are exactly the same that wasn't a training that was an arise and i didn't think that it just happened
thank you
today than mary
cause for graphics on it's hard
cima
the stay in my heart and articulate my experience right now
and it's been hard to stay as a of during a top ah
it's been incredibly encouraging top and i really appreciate her like
tall and all wonderful examples of your
july some ear with what is our traumas and at the same time early on talk when he talked about sexuality
an experienced a lot of pain
ah because of what i've heard in terms of frank sexual drive and sexual
into day in charge so
reproduction
no i wasn't going to get away with that you know and i entered it we have so many friends
and it
who are gay or i know mixed gender identity and we've gone and not about all the ways that way that i make an other of someone unconscious
and i am i but i have to stay with
you could call it now you could call what you were talking about of what it wants to really turn towards that and not turn away and so know ironically or maybe very naturally for the rest of your top i've had to religious he returning to
you and so for me what i'm noticing is that nationals and out my nervousness is to is to not five past hey man arrived
you know and so if you were saying that what's what's important i was looking into ways it's also dialogue see know it's knocking on door in the right here
ah you know inclusivity what what is that what is that and so i guess what i were say another your own question
but it is that i really want to meet you in a place where i can voice and and actually is the bridge concluding whatever you are really going for when you share that and in that shut down i don't know this question in there
that's great thanks i would like it if we've talked about it outside rather than that becomes the topic today if that's okay
it it's a concern to me because i think that sometimes i find that own voice
what allergen around like a thinking or feeling in some other frame a beautiful story line and so i'm left with this on of what is it really the
in a community around
conscious and unconscious inclusivity and exclusivity yeah i think it's a good question i would be if ever anybody else has this topic let's let's get together afterward
we can all do that at the same time mary
thank you
and i thank you do get also i didn't notice that moment and myself but plucked that i did it doesn't know what i wanted to say i wanted to say that
experienced to can turn a moment here when surgeons said self consciousness is the experience of being separate from here
which i've been chewing on her years since then and it seems to me that that is about what you're talking about in terms of what we get out of the we they thinking now versus will get out and realize a big there's no day and i was thinking my argument
suzuki roshi maybe and not exactly an argument so much as an agreement with how hard it is to talk about it because it's almost impossible to talk about it without going to us now and that's what it was a which it sounded like he was going to elicit can you were taking up the way there's no belts i haha
and so how do we keep alive the bridge between how we have the manifest and also
what be re other reality is that isn't we pay them yeah
i i don't know how to talk about i think it's really important point that than the loose a big part of the looseness is the interconnectedness which i meant to say and i forgot to say a big part of who how you get to the looseness is to get out of the separateness
yeah
thank you think that's really important point how
chad
it's quiet over there are you guys
where am i just not looking over there
oh oh okay go ahead
you know we both have a kids better in their twenties the removed markets are actually live longer he wrote the footnote occurred to me about here
the discussion
about em
training in us get them
the are our kids are gonna have to be dealing with
the consequence of climate change
how can i wonder if you want to talk about better maybe we should just think
yeah that's well it's different turn
i mean
sadly
we're not the first species whose i don't think were the first species whose waste products have created an environment that it can't live in anymore like that's basically i think what's happening so
what could we do to change that outcome i don't know but yeah day we we're it's gonna be over on the looseness it's not you know because the habit of everything the climate change is only about how we're built an hour train i mean that's nothing else so yeah
that would be amazing if we could
if we can turn that around
yeah i wanted to mention one thing i forgot which is little bit off topic but in my examples of us and them i've been thinking a lot about this book to toni morrison's but playing in the dark i don't know i read it so long ago i hope i made this is where i've gone with what she said there i don't know but it's like that for the
founding fathers how were they free it's like they they they tried to be free but it like they were more free it came up that it was a it you felt more free if there was someone who wasn't free so like i mean there's some way that that
is slavery was good
you know in an a terrible awful way it was like the way people could prove that they were free if they weren't if they actually when they got over here they didn't probably feel that free you know what i mean
so i just think that's a really interesting example that she brings up it's like it's like unfree makes you feel more free in the definitely in deluded sentence you know
so like can we compare the feeling of like being for the cubs and the cubs winning like you have to have someone louis to when can we compare that feeling us and them whatever it is our religion or something with the feeling that we're all one family this is what you know all living beings are one for
family which gets to you know it's like what does that feel like compared to my family my religion my group my you know like feel into the both those feelings and how we are how are they different there are two different kinds of feelings i think the out this unscarred paul is our last one yes i saw
say that i thought gee this comment was very brave my home and i i personally felt that your response that it wasn't relevant to the larger discussion felt like it was doesn't making separateness yeah and camp sorry i hope it's not about hot as it's just yeah i saw because
you know it's no one can assume which as she's are relevant to everybody and nobody and actually that the problems or challenges of what might seem like a minority whether his sexuality or gender or race or actually relevant everybody in my opinion i
three i agree with that totally and thank you that was also break free of usa