Good morning. Before I get started on my talk, I just wanted to say a little bit about the practice period and how much I appreciate all of the effort that everyone participating has put in. That's really nice, and I think it's going reasonably well, because of all those efforts, some of them are hidden, some of them are revealed, but all together, it's encouraging. It's encouraging. I think that's the heart of a practice period. And I wanted to particularly acknowledge our Benji, Miri, who's given me so much support. And also Sojin's masterful leadership.

[01:02]

So, and if there's one thing, really, that could be said or need be said is that Zen practice is done together. It's done together. And we encourage each other with our practice in ways that we might notice and ways that we don't notice. So, I don't know if I notice them all, but what I notice, I appreciate. So, thank you. Joshu said to his monks, the great way is not difficult to follow. One who walks it simply must not make any preference. One word is said and it stops at preference or non-preference.

[02:13]

I do not linger even in non-preference. Do you follow me? A monk stood up and said, if one has no preference, what do they follow after? Good question. Joshu said, I don't know. The monk responded, if you don't know, why do you say you do not linger, even in non-preference? Joshu said, your business of asking questions is finished. You may bow and retire. So, we're working with this koan during this practice period and it relates to the Qin Shen Ming study that we're doing, Sojin is leading us on.

[03:15]

It's important to know that this story is not about something that happened in Tang Dynasty China. It's right here. The joshu is here and the monk is here. Actually, we're the monk. And the monk missed twice. He was clever, but Joshu was helping him, really helping him. Perhaps when he got back to his room, he realized how kind Joshu was. My last talk, we talked about, I brought up the point of this notion of the great way is without difficulty, and we talked about the fact that indeed there's a lot of difficulty involved.

[04:23]

And since then, I've been looking into that a little bit and I thought, for purposes of discussion, that we could look into that and break it down into some different categories or different topics or aspects of that difficulty. So, one of the difficulties is this part about One word. One word and you're stuck in preference or non-preference. One word. That's tough because that makes you nervous about opening your mouth and getting stuck. What is it about words that is difficult? What is it? And there's lots been said about that, I'm certain, but fundamentally, the word is,

[05:36]

A word, a naming something, a concept, an idea, a notion is kind of an interruption. It interrupts the flow. You name something and all of a sudden it goes from being undefined and flowing to defined. That's one way of looking at it. But it's also been a problem and a noticed one for a long time. I'm fond of Shakespeare. Master Shakespeare, and he wrote a play about this. It's called The Tragedy of King Lear. It begins with him asking his daughters, who loves him most? Who loves him most? And he wanted to hear those words. He wanted to hear those words of love and feel a love from his daughters. And his first two daughters really laid it on thick. His third daughter, Cordelia, when she knew her turn was coming, said, and yet not so, for how can I thrust my heart upon my tongue?

[06:46]

And so when Lear asked her, Our youngest and fairest daughter, tell us, how much do thou love us? She said, I love you by my bond and nothing more. And that really pissed King Lear off. Really pissed him off. Because he wanted to hear those words. He didn't care if they were lies. He didn't care. He just wanted to see those words. And that animated that play, the whole play just kind of cast on from there. Later, I wrote a note to Lear, and it goes something like this, Lear, you fool, you fool. Your word-made world was all a wall between you and not you that you created when you left God. You alone in this world and your reasons did not work.

[07:52]

Tragedy, existential nightmare. And can your words bring life to dear Cordelia? And then, your death. Right to the end, Lear was convinced that his words able to do what they can't do, and it created a separation between him and everything else. Now, he is an extreme case, but we all do this, yeah? Words create this separation, actually. And, yeah, so that's why Joshu brought it up. The second difficulty, the second difficulty is, We talked last time, and Sojan actually brought it up at the Thursday night, that this word preference actually might not be the best word there, preference, non-preference. It's really something underneath it.

[08:54]

And so what that may be is this whole sense of how, when presented with things, we react with, oftentimes, with aversion, with discomfort. And at least speaking for myself, almost moment by moment, sensory information comes in. It's pretty much an instantaneous aversion, a first instinct. Worse yet, at that same time, the minute that something happens that's disturbing, it triggers a download from the storehouse consciousness of memories flood into it. And not only is there something that's happened that's irritating, but you have a story about who caused it. It's my mother. Or it's Ross. Ross did it. Must be Ross. And then you're off and running.

[09:57]

I mean, and I am off and running. And so instead of us accepting sensory information, what we experience, In an open way, we immediately come, I immediately go to aversion. And the minute the aversion strikes, it triggers this download and pretty much you are death just one thing after the other. And it's kind of the condition of life. And in fact, that may be a definition of our suffering that animates a lot. This feeling, this aversion, of course, this discomfort, Rilke said, you don't feel very at home in this interpreted world of yours. This edge or discomfort, of course, leads to and motivates, animates a whole range of responses.

[11:09]

Strategies, if you will, that we deploy to ease or to get away from that discomfort. Numbing it, great strategy. Indulging, basically the whole range of human existence is defined at that moment, where we're doing these things, we're motivated or pulled by this sense of discomfort, this sense of separation, this sense of aversion, moment by moment. Sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker, but pretty much it's pretty continual for me anyway. So that leads to the third difficulty that I want to bring up, which is,

[12:15]

So we, one of the strategies, of course, coming out of this discomfort, actually there's kind of, there's two that are common, that actually that Wendell Berry brought up in the poem that I stated last time. You know, this idea that there's something outside of me that needs to be fixed. And then the other alternative, of course, is I gotta fix myself. Something's wrong with me and it needs to be fixed. Of course, the first one is basically, you know, the realm of politics. And some people are convinced that if they can just make the world a better place, if we could just have a socialist paradise, all difficulty would be gone. Well, that's one thought. The other is that there's something terribly wrong, and I'm going to do psychotherapy, or I'm going to be religious, or I'm going to do one thing or another, and I'm going to make myself a better person.

[13:18]

So those are kind of the two strategies. And really, we're here. the affinity that brings us all into this room because I think we've noticed this suffering, this difficulty, and as a part of this practice are intent upon doing something about it. And what And so we have this, lots of people have tried lots of different things, but we've landed here and we're doing this. So I want to talk a little bit about that, about what it is exactly, what it is exactly. One thing that's interesting is that, at least again, speaking for myself, is that certainly early on, if not continuing, I've always had the notion that practice was a prescription, a prescription, a cure for something.

[14:35]

And in fact, I thought, well, geez, you even have this This is sort of what Shakyamuni taught us, the Four Noble Truths. There's suffering, there's a cause of suffering, it can end, and there's a way to make it end. That's kind of the Buddhism in a nutshell. That way to make it end. The path, Eightfold Path. I always kind of thought, well, let's see, this is straightforward. You meditate, and that makes you a better person, a compassionate person, and then eventually you get to be wise. Right? It's easy. Yeah. So, and I think a lot of us, I think a lot of us, I do, practice in that fashion. We're trying to escape from or to solve or cure that dis-ease of existence and suffering.

[15:42]

And I didn't notice for a long time something about these aspects of of the path. And when I noticed it, I kind of, well, that's kind of odd. And what's odd is that these steps or aspects of this path, eight steps, begin with wisdom. They begin with prajna. They don't end with prajna, they begin. Now, some people say, well, there's really no order here and all of that, but, you know, somebody thought they had to put them in some order, and so, huh, that's kind of interesting. Why would that be true? And why would, why would, why would wisdom be first? And so then perhaps you look into what that,

[16:45]

wisdom is, and there's obviously lots of talk and different ways of describing that, but at the end, it comes down to seeing things as they are, as they are. And, of course, we, as they are in Buddhism, refers to three marks, this topic of change, of endless flow and flux of everything that's tangible. And also, secondly, no abiding self. We don't really exist. And finally, and this is kind of interesting, and perhaps Sojin can talk about this a little bit, the third is rendered sometimes as suffering and sometimes as nirvana. It flips. So I'm going to stick with nirvana. That is to say that that peace, that the Absolute is always here and never changing.

[17:56]

So it's kind of the opposite side of the change. So what this means is that this path is not a prescription at all. It's a description. It's a description of the way things are, really are. And if there is no abiding self, how can there be a cure? What need you of a cure? So, I think that this is really interesting. And then, of course, by the way, the second aspect of wisdom is sometimes it's called right thinking. I don't think that's probably a very good translation, but it's really not being confused or not confusing

[19:03]

the relative and the absolute. And so Nishiri Bokaran, Suzuki Roshi's Dharma grandfather, said, topsy-turvy thinking. You know, like, instead of seeing the truth in all things, you're just stuck with the surface. Yeah, topsy-turvy thinking. So wisdom is really a kind of a combination of seeing things as they are and not being confused. Yeah. And so, as for the center, the right speech, right livelihood, right action, the sort of volitional aspects of this path, these are not done. for any other purpose than to essentially take care of the self.

[20:06]

That is to say, once you understand that and have the sense that there is no separate self, it just follows that you're going to take care of your bowls, and you're going to take care of your family, and you're going to take care of things, large and small, just simply because they are you. You are it. And another topic that comes up with the last, with meditation, with the two last, mindfulness and concentration or meditation, there's a lot of talk back and forth about purposelessness, and we're not doing this for any reason. But I have the sense that a lot of people just don't believe that's true. They really want to think that they're doing this for something. They're going to get better. I know I'm going to get better. But really, that sitting is ultimately just an expression, just an expression.

[21:13]

moment of this wisdom, of this dharma. And it doesn't start anywhere and doesn't go anywhere. And since there is no one to be cured, how could it possibly have any lasting effect? That's what I have to say. I welcome your questions. I don't want to burn.

[22:19]

Okay. I thank you. Yes. Yes, Paul. It seems to me there is a cure in what you're saying. If you let go of a sense of self, there's a lot of suffering that goes along with believing in a separate self. And if you realize through your meditation or your practice that there isn't one, you're cured of something. Well, if you weren't there to begin with, who's cured? Suffering ended. Well, suffering ended is just suffering ended. That's a cure. I wouldn't define it, but to me that's a cure. And I look forward to it happening sometime. I know what I wanted to say. I wanted to say that even though and for any special purpose, it doesn't mean that things don't happen.

[23:24]

That's true. But if you give them a name, you get stuck. If you do it for that purpose, it doesn't happen. Good. Yes, Ross. I'm sorry for naming you earlier. I love you, Walter. What comes up for you? Excuse me. What comes up for you? What comes up when I love you, Walter? Oh, well, Ross, I love you too. Uh, yes. Terry Joe. Yeah. I, I, I loved your, um, wondering about why Proshna's the first step in the, in the, in the old path. And, you know, I thought about that, and I thought, well, did I have any prajna at all when I put my feet on the path?

[24:27]

And it was like, yeah, yeah, that little teeny tiny spark that, you know, helped to see that maybe possibly if I do something different than what I was doing, that maybe, you know, I might find some freedom from all the crap I was piling on what I thought was myself. It was a lot of preservation of a false being going on. And, you know, I mean, that was decades and decades and decades ago and still, you know, still unraveling that beginning is what keeps me going. Well, it's this prajna, this wisdom, that's bodhidharma, that we have faith in. And that faith is, or trust, or confidence, whichever word you want to use, whatever works, is this... Well, it's...

[25:38]

It's something that is always there, fundamentally, and you can't escape it. It's like a fish trying to get out of water, or a bird trying to fly out of the sky. You can't do it. You're there. It's all around you, and it's so pervasive and so total that you don't notice it. But as time goes on, you're able to practice that. and let go of those tethers. Yes, John. I heard, in my mind, I heard you saying earlier that we like the character from the play, the youngest daughter. Cordelia. Cordelia, thank you. There is no source or name the sources other than us.

[26:48]

If I understood correctly, that meant to me that if I hear something coming in, I shouldn't say, Sojin taught me that, or you taught me that, but I should just see it as what the moment is offering? And that's the question, really? Yeah, I think that's right. The word acceptance is key, you know, is that these sense data come in and it's just accepting them as they are, as they is, and not not putting too much of a trip on it. Obviously, to survive, you've got to interpret and all of that, but just being able to see things as they are without projecting or bringing a whole lot of baggage back, I think that's really, really critical. And I think you're right when you naming is part of that process because when you when some you have some experience and you put a name on it like um john did something stupid you know like right uh then all of a sudden the whole that's just a cascade of stuff follows on from that and then all of a sudden you're you know that whatever information was there in that first experience is kind of clouded

[28:08]

Peter and then Sue. Thank you, Walter, for reminding us that none of us would be here unless we saw something clearly at some point in our life. Something clearly wrong. Hopefully right, whatever. That's clear. And it seemed like from what you were saying, it suggested to me that there's an almost, well, maybe everything we do is really in the realm of that taking care of our life, like sitting down on the cushion. We're taking care of what's happening in this moment. And then I ask myself, maybe there is no wisdom. Maybe that's not necessary. And on the other hand, we're struggling. Here we are naming things. We're naming aspects of the past. That may be above my pay grade, I don't know.

[29:19]

Consultants in the military, we used to get away with that. I'm not going to answer that question. I think that it's... And just before those words arise, just before you stick a name on something, there's a little moment there where everything's together and you do understand. And I think it's just recognizing that. Not necessarily, and just as Joshu says, I don't remain in non-preference. I'm going to cycle through naming. I can't escape it. No one can. But I'm not going to get stuck there. So, I think that's the key there. So, Sue? Yeah, thank you for the talk. For some reason, the thought of Malala, the Afghani girl who was shot because she was promoting education for girls, came to my mind.

[30:27]

I saw a documentary about her. And she does not hate the people who did this to her and also killed some of her friends. and has become a spokeswoman, a young woman, for education for girls. And she has not clung to the opinions in the way King Lear demonstrates, or our tribal politics demonstrates. She has freedom from that, that is so moving. And to see what is, I hadn't thought of that before. Yes, Kika. Thank you, Walter. You know, we sit zazen, we know we're not supposed to sit to attain something, but there's always kind of a little joke about that. But it's really quite serious business, and so I wonder how you encourage us not to do that.

[31:31]

Well, I think that One of the aspects of the practice period, of course, is the opportunity to sit together a bunch more. Yeah? Yeah. And that's a little bit hard getting out of the gate for me, for a variety of reasons, but I'm a little more comfortable now. But for myself, sitting here in this endo with everybody, quietly in the morning or in the evening, that question just flat disappears. It just, it's not there. I just, you know, it's just, I just feel the comfort of sitting and everybody's practice around me and that's just enough now.

[32:35]

Yes, Linda. Hi Walter, I enjoyed your whole talk. You said that, excuse me, that you talked about not confusing the absolute and the relative. And I think you were recommending not confusing them. And I just wondered, I'm saying that innocently, I just wondered. Yeah, yeah. There's no innocent questions that come from you. something relative that isn't absolute? No, I think, I mean, it's a good question Linda, so thank you for asking. If you're a materialist, There are people that are materialists and they think that once there was a mountain, now there's no mountain, now there is.

[33:44]

It's like the materialist thinks that all these objects are separate objects, basically, and that they are all that is. All that is. uh, other people think they don't exist at all. You know, that there's just some magical substrate or something going on and everything's utterly illusionary. But I think this here, this idea here is the best as I could say is if you see the absolute that the relative is, at all times, that's what you're trying to do. That's what an aspect of practice is. To not see all these objects as just kind of separate things that don't have anything to do with each other, but actually see through them and understand that form is emptiness and emptiness is form.

[34:46]

You know, just 100%. Perhaps you're leading us astray when you tell us not to confuse them? Yeah, okay. Sorry about that. Yeah, yes. Thank you Walter. That third mark of existence, suffering, and sometimes called nirvana, well it's easy to see the difference, suffering and nirvana, but why is it we can call it nirvana? So where is the similarity there? When a self manifests, it's suffering. And when a self doesn't manifest, it's nirvana.

[35:47]

You know, it's the minute that there's that separation, the mark is suffering. Well, thank you for your work, first of all.

[37:02]

It's very good work. Thank you. And I certainly have not had the amount of experience with that circumstance that you've had, but to the extent that I have, and I have, I wouldn't say that there's for myself, anything that can prepare me for that, you know, nothing. I mean, certainly you can learn skills and abilities and things that help you along the way, but holding that person in that moment is something that transcends all of that, I think. It's something that just comes from your heart in that moment. And Zazen or no, you know, I would just say that. Yes, yes, hi.

[38:04]

Can you say something about, you talked about non-preference, but how do we practice non-preference and also have intention? Intention? Intention. What, what Joshua is saying is that, that is basically that this notion of preference or non-preference, of clarity, confusion, you know, etc., etc., is, that you don't get stuck, you just move through it, whatever is rising. And as far as intention goes, there is this notion of walking, making an effort, right effort, actually.

[39:05]

But, But I think that, that effort, there's another aspect of the poem that I read from Barry, I know Barry last time, we were talking about the geese, and he's referring to these geese flying over, and he says, Abandoned leads them on their ancient way. Abandoned. That is to say, they're just letting go. And flying north, they don't know quite where. Actually, they know precisely where. But their intention is, their guide is actually letting go. So, moment by moment. Jake. Okay, sorry. Yes, Jake. Thanks for your talk, Walter. Kind of following up what was just said, when aversion arises for you, often for one, for myself, reactivity may follow, how do you work with letting go of your reactivity, not in an intellectual sense, but right there?

[40:20]

Well, first of all, most of the time I indulge it. Sorry, I'm sorry, it's true. Ask Angela. It's true, see, she admitted. The habit is indulgence, so just to start with that. But there are times where I am alert enough, or however you may say it, to create a little space just before that gun goes off, you know, a little crack in which you can sort of take the backward step, as the word would say, and create a little space and say, no, uh-uh. And actually, for people that have active minds and a lot of stuff in their head, the problem is far worse.

[41:31]

Far worse. But so, you know, things queue up. I got in a lot of fights when I was a kid for this reason, by the way. Things came out of my mouth, next thing that happened, Oh, Lord. Okay, so, but with a little bit of space. So something happened during the week that was like this, where I was sitting with somebody and I was, a lot of this person was expressing a lot of kind of anger, and it caused a lot of disturbance in me right out of the bat, and I was really kind of, I was starting into that cycle, and I thought to myself, just in this moment, I thought, you know, I'm going to hold back here. So I just think that, to your question, Jake, I think if we can give ourselves a little bit of space, just a little bit, to consider what is happening and what the quality and the taste of that aversion is, and you can realize that in fact, whatever that is happening is indeed

[42:46]

everything you need is here, you know, and kind of create whatever mental mantra or whatever trick you can come up with, just create some space, and then maybe we'll be less reactive. And also, you know, I think part of practice too is actually in the moment, but then even afterward, looking into it, deconstructing, what the hell was that about? Why did I What was that? And it's like, well, some thing can bat flying straight out of your consciousness, some ancient wound or something that adds to the insult. If you can just look into that, that's called studying the self, watching it, seeing what happens. That's what we're doing. Good luck. Yes, Dean. Thanks, Walter.

[43:47]

I love you, Walter. I do. I remember being under the yurt at Tassajara. I'm curious, it's almost as if you sound like you enjoy your indulgence of sort of going off, you know, it's almost that you sound like you enjoy that sort of flaming part of yourself and I'm wondering, after listening to you, you're actually doing, because you're saying, well, if we can get that little tiny gap.

[44:58]

So I'm wondering, what is your desire to not do that planning? And what exactly, on a day-to-day, moment-to-moment action do you take to keep from, to try to, there's a gap, there's a gap, hold it, What do you do? Well, first of all, Dean, thank you. I love you too. And I'm glad you didn't burn me with the torch. And it is really fun working with you. Because we are alike. You asked a very excellent question. The answer is, you're absolutely correct. The most important thing you said is, yes, yes, yes, I enjoy it. When that goes off, there's like a flood of cortisol fill my brain. And it is, and then it's just off to the races. And certainly in my work, where I'm dealing with lots of frustrating circumstances, basically in public, I am noted for not hiding my irritation.

[46:17]

Hopefully I try to express it in a positive way, but it is doubly hard because part of our identity, one's identity, might be that reactivity. Or alternatively, the opposite, in the response to that kind of assault, collapsing in on oneself. That's just the opposite. So, no, you nailed it. And it is really hard. It's really, really hard for me. And I appreciate you pointing that out, really. That's good. One more question? One more, one more. Anything? Oh, Sarah. Welcome, Sarah. So I was thinking about how you started talking about the words and listening to the busy mind and anger pieces and looking at and all the different defense mechanisms that have been identified, and of course anger we all know, but intellectualism.

[47:22]

So, that's a defense mechanism according to Freud and others. So, yeah, going beneath the words and finding out what's underneath all that. And if you can, like you said, take that pause and maybe let all the words go, and then what am I sitting with? What's underneath there? just to sort of super simplify it all, isn't that part of, or a big part of what meditation is, is that we're just here to sit with it and let all of it filter in and go away beneath those words and just be? Yes, I think that's well stated. In practice, you know, we sit still. And it's hard for it to sit still. And so also, we don't move or try not to move. And things happen, like our legs hurt, or flies walk down our nose, or snot comes out our nose or into our mouth, you know, whatever.

[48:25]

It's nasty. And of course, our normal reaction is to move, is to take care of those annoyances. But you learn in sitting, you just don't do it. And that's kind of a will, that's an act of, you know, I'm not going to move. I mean, most of the movement is really in the mind. Exactly. So, in the practice, by just dealing with these rather minor physical disturbances that are in the moment, your mind is also doing the same thing. And the same logic applies, so to speak. It's like some irritation, some mental thought rises, and it just comes in one window and goes out the other. So yeah, that's correct. I think that's what we're doing here.

[49:23]

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