March 2nd, 1987, Serial No. 00333, Side A

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BZ-00333A
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Sesshin Day 3

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Norman Fischer talk after end of expected talk

Transcript: 

Good morning. This morning I want to talk about seven qualities in Zazen. I like to talk about this at least once during Sashim, because if we're going to think about anything during Sashim, we might as well think about these seven qualities. Dogen Zenji says, think not thinking.

[01:03]

So this will not think these seven thoughts. And these seven qualities are harmonious, when they're brought into harmony with each other, complete arsazen. The first one, which we all know, is mindfulness. If there's anything that we need to know about Buddhist practice, it's mindfulness. The second one is called investigating the dharmas, or And the third, of course, is energy. And the fourth is joyfulness.

[02:13]

And the fifth is calmness of mind. Or just calmness. And the sixth is concentration. And the seventh is equanimity. So you can see how we're in Zazen, we're working with these seven factors constantly. And when one predominates or gets out of balance with the others, then we have some kind of problem. So I'll talk a little bit about each one. Mindfulness is called the mind's aid.

[03:28]

And also it's called the guardian of the mind. Mindfulness is the factor which constantly keeps us directed, keeps us on the path. It's like a shepherd. You know, the sheep are wandering around. Sarah said, a little bit to the left, a little bit to the right. Or like that little dog that's always running after the sheep, barking. So the tendency of our mind is to wander. And the unnatural factor of our nature is to keep it in line. Keep it going someplace, according to our decision.

[04:30]

Practice is something that goes according to our decision. And it goes counter to our feelings and our tendencies. So we're always having this problem of staying in place. Buddhism is not natural. It's natural, but it has an unnatural aspect to it, which is to stay on one point, to stay directive, and to go with our commitment, or our decision. Because our natural tendency is just to wander, to pick up one thing after another, to go from this thing to that thing according to what feels good at the moment.

[05:39]

But that natural tendency to wander gets us into lots of trouble, and doesn't take us anywhere. So, we have to make some kind of resolve. In some place in our life, we make a resolve to practice the Dharma. But, even though we make that resolve, it's very difficult to stay with it. Really hard to stay with it, with the resolve that we make. and to stay with our decision. So the tendency to wander continues, even though we say, I'm going to practice Zazen, I want to continue to practice Zazen, Buddhadharma, Sushin. But even though we put ourselves in that position, our tendency to wander has a mind of its own. So mindfulness is always bringing your attention back to our decision.

[07:00]

And it goes counter to our feelings and counter to our desire. So it's pretty hard to stay focused, to stay going on the path. And many things will divert our attention. So mindfulness is the quality that runs through all of our practice and should be present, needs to be present. in everything that we do. And it doesn't have... it's very pure. Distraction, of course, is its opposite. But it doesn't need any countering force to balance it. It's an interesting thing about mindfulness.

[08:10]

Most of the other qualities need some kind of balancing force because they can easily get out of hand if they're too heavy. That's why we talk about harmonizing them. So mindfulness has... there's no limit to the amount of mindfulness you can have and still be on the track. The next factor, paying attention to the dharmas, investigating dharmas, investigating dharmas refers to the fifty dharmas. my mental and physical dharmas. And one example of investigating, well, two examples.

[09:16]

One example is that we always have something coming up in our mind during zazen. Or either some thought or some feeling. And when the thought comes, a thought comes into our mind, recognize that thought, that thought is a kind of dharma, or a feeling. We may feel angry, and that anger is a dharma. And you can, in our particular practice, we don't Soto Zen, Zazen, The practice of naming dharmas has never been taught to us, but a Theravada practice, it's quite common to name the dharmas as they arise. Anger, lust, joy, or whatever that comes up.

[10:25]

I don't know which is best, but in our practice we just let the dharmas come and recognize what's there and then let it go. But we don't make a point of delving into them, thinking about them. We just keep our attention on posture and breathing. But I'll come back to this one later, because it is quite more involved than the others. So the third one is energy. And energy, of course, one of the most, whichever fact you talk about, you can say this is the most important.

[11:35]

So you can say energy is the most important factor. Each one of these factors includes all the others. So when energy is in the forefront, then it includes mindfulness, investigation, and all the others. But without the factor of energy, even though we may have good concentration, our concentration is not being used in a way that is beneficial. So, concentration tends to lead to laziness. It's easy to be concentrated on something, but without energy, it can become like a catatonia or translight.

[12:42]

You know, there's this kind of zazen which has got a lot of concentration to it, but doesn't have any energy. So energy is uplifting and gives vitality to our practice. Energy has the quality of including our whole body and mind, and runs around waking us up.

[13:54]

So our energy is equated with wakefulness. And the next one is joyfulness, joy. If you don't have joy in your practice, then something's wrong. The other day I heard somebody say, I've been sitting for 15 years or something, and done hundreds of sessions, and I felt terrible the whole time. How is that possible? A person should be doing something else. If you don't have the factor of joy, By that time, you should be doing it.

[14:57]

Find something that you like. Sometimes people come to me and they complain about this and that. I just wish that you would find something in your life that you'd really like to do. You don't have to do this practice. What are you doing? What are you trying to wring out of it? find something that you really like to do, do it, and I'll help you. But joy is something, it has to be there, and it comes from success. Basically joy arises when you have success in what you're doing. So in zazen, even though you may have a lot of pain in your legs, have a really difficult time, be it your wits end, if your body's end, when you continue through all of that, all the difficulty, joy arises.

[16:11]

Because even though you have tough time, it's successful. You have success. But some people resent the difficulty. That's a big problem. Yes, I got my way through it, and I was successful, but I resent all that pain. And I resent all that difficulty. Zazen should purify us, actually. By the time we get through, we shouldn't have any resentment or anger. Anything like that. We're still hanging on to something, if we do. By the time we get through Sashin, we shouldn't have anything left. Just joy. Joyfulness. Because there's nothing there.

[17:14]

Nothing holding us down. So when there's nothing holding us down, or nothing's in front of us, our natural state is just joyfulness. So it's a kind of mixture in a way, you know, difficulty, pain, so forth, and joyfulness underneath. It's not necessarily the joyfulness of overt jumping up and down or something like that, but this kind of joyfulness is underneath it all, this something wonderful. No matter what's happening, underneath everything, or in the midst of everything there's something wonderful. And that kind of joyfulness also is confidence, is a basis for confidence. And confidence is a basis for faith.

[18:15]

So you know that what you're doing is the right thing, and you continue to do it. And then number six is concentration. Sometimes we talk about concentration. Concentration is like concentric or centering, getting in the middle of the circle. It's the opposite of eccentric, which is out of the center of the circle. So, concentration is a way of centering and keeping the body and mind on its place, on its spot.

[19:29]

Mindfulness and concentration go together. Sometimes we equate one with the other. Concentration is the quality of keeping us going, keeping us from wandering. Concentration is staying on the spot. centering, always centering, always finding our center. And in Zazen, our whole, no matter what we're doing, whether we're dealing with our body or our mind, or eating, or walking, being aware of where is our center, all the time. Where is the center? all of our movements and all of our stillness is concentrated around where is the center.

[20:44]

Sometimes I see people who haven't had so much experience literally talk heavy. They haven't really located the center yet. When you've really located the center, then all of your outer limbs coalesce with that center. And whatever you do moves outward from that center so that you have a balanced feeling to your movement. And you always know where you are. So a lot of times we're centered up here, but we need to move that down to here. And then this takes its rightful place. We want to center everything around here. But when we center everything around here, then this part functions quite well.

[21:51]

Because even though it has a mind of its own, It needs to be controlled. Our mind needs to be controlled. If you leave the mind to controlling itself, it's a bad boy. It needs to be controlled by the sun. So this is like the solar plexus, right? The sun's spot. And all of our limbs and The head, the body, legs and arms are the satellites revolving around the sun. So this is where we watch our breathing. This is where we put our effort, our strength and our concentration. And every part of our body relates to that spot.

[22:57]

And if you really concentrate on relating to that spot, you'll naturally find your way. So the next factor is equanimity. That's number seven. Seeing everything impartially. which is pretty difficult. Pleasure and pain. Good and bad. Impartiality is that factor that allows us to sit no matter what's happening. I remember Suzukuro, she used to say during sashin, I can't tell which is my left foot and which is my right foot.

[24:11]

If you sit with both legs crossed, you have that experience. But you don't have to sit that way. I used to sit... I sat on a full lotus for about 20 years, but I don't sit that way anymore. And it's fine. You don't have to sit that way, although it's nice to do it. So the impartiality... is really an important factor. As soon as pain comes, if we ignore it, it will grab us. You can't ignore it. And if you try to push it away, it will laugh at you. On the one hand, we have to welcome it, and on the other hand, we can't allow ourself to become attached to it.

[25:40]

So attachment means, I don't like you. I like you, I want you, or I don't want you. Either way is partiality. So just to let it be there as some something, some feeling that we have, even though you may not be able to do that. When you begin sitting, you may not be able to do that. But you should work toward that. That's what you should be working with. How to just let it be there. Without over-acceptance or rejection.

[26:45]

Without wanting it or rejecting it. Whatever comes, it just passes through, just like the thoughts in your mind. The pain in our legs is just like the thought in our mind, the thinking mind. So we take care of that in the same way that we take care of the thoughts in our mind. When the thought comes, it's just there, and then it leaves. Then another thought comes, and then it leaves, without taking it up. without building, using it as a foundation for building a fantasy. And when the pain in our legs comes, it's just something, some feeling is there. But our fantasy is, I don't like this. This is getting worse and worse. Blah, blah, blah. So we build quite a structure on that little thing that happens.

[27:53]

And before we know it, I can't stand this! So we really grab on to it. It's easy, very easy, just grab on to it. But what we have to learn to do is open ourself. So this is a passive side. Passive side in Zazen is just to open ourself. I have a soft mind and soft body that yields. Just continually yielding, actually. Continually yielding. Letting go. When something happens, just let go immediately. Or letting go is the same as accepting. Immediately accept. You have a choice. And if you accept immediately, without hesitation, you can accept it.

[29:00]

If you think about it too much, you still have a chance. But as soon as you start to reject it, then you're lost. So it's a wonderful kind of game we play with ourselves, but it's for real. And we get caught, you know, we all get caught by it. When we don't have mindfulness, you know, we get caught by it. But when we're mindful, and as soon as something comes, we accept it. And then, moment after moment, we can continue to accept it. And then even though you may have some difficulty, it's not such a problem. because your actions are positive. So the negative side is yielding.

[30:05]

The positive side is accepting. So it's positive. You can't say that it's positive or negative. It's just it. And joy arises. If you look for joy, you'll never find it. Looking for joy is too fleeting. But if you just do the work, joy arises out of that. Do you have any questions? I don't know whether I went to sleep when we talked about calmness. About what? Calmness? Maybe I left it over. You're right. I went to sleep when I got to calmness.

[31:06]

Thanks for reminding me. I skipped over that one. Calmness and equanimity kind of go together. They're very much like each other. Another word for calmness is settledness. Being able to settle. Settle. Kadagiri Roshi always quotes Uchiyama Roshi. Settle the self on the self. That's his word for Zazen. Settle the self on the self. That's calmness of mind. Suzuki Roshio is calmness of mind. People put a lot of emphasis on concentration. Concentration sometimes is considered the most important factor in Zazen. But Suzuki Roshi always talked about calmness of mind.

[32:17]

And concentration, of course, but calmness of mind. And no, concentration is just one factor in zazen. But there are many factors. There are all seven factors, matter of fact. And if we just put our emphasis on one factor, concentration, concentration, we tend to forget the other factors. So, that's one reason why I like to talk about, to remind us of all seven factors, not just the one factor, or two factors. or three. Mindfulness, concentration, and calmness of mind, or settledness, are three that we usually think about.

[33:27]

And energy. They're all there. But calmness is just the ability to be where you are. No need to think about when is the bell going to ring. When you no longer need to think about when the bell is going to ring, that's advanced practice. That means that you're just willing to do whatever you're doing and be wherever you are. And whatever is happening is happening. And you're calmed and no agitation, no worry, no flurry, no indifference. You have to be careful about indifference. The ability to accept things as they are is a little different than indifference.

[34:34]

Indifference is going off the end a little bit. as, I don't care, or, there is an indifferent quality to, say, equanimity. There is an indifferent quality, but it's not indifference, because not caring is not, you need to care about something. You need to take responsibility and empathy. And indifference is more like sloth, which looks like equanimity, but it's actually the imitation or counterfeit of equanimity, sloth, or laziness.

[35:35]

sometimes called near enemy. Not enemy, but it's called that sometimes in translation. Looks like it, but sometimes passes for the real thing. So, in Zazen we should be concerned about what we're doing, not indifferent. Indifferent is like Concentration without energy. There's a kind, like I said, there's a kind of zazen which is just concentrated. You're not moving, but you're not there either. Yeah? That's perfectly harmonized.

[36:42]

When everything is perfectly harmonized, and each one of the factors is perfectly harmonized, even though you have effort, you also have calmness. So calmness and effort balance each other out. Effort on the one hand is energy, is pushing, going forward, exerting. And calmness is settling. So the combination of exerting and settling at the same time is easy, balanced, comfortable practice. And that's what we should be aiming at in Zazen.

[37:45]

Balanced, comfortable practice, which always has the possibility of problems, and when problems come, dealing with them in a balanced way. how to balance each thing against the others, then you always know what to work with, and you have some tools to work with. When you talk about blindness, and there's a company that is saying that something despite And then I'm talking also about the wisdom that comes from the gut, so the soul comes from the gut and the mental. And the phrase gut feeling comes up, which is a kind of eyes of wisdom, where you've made a decision to do something,

[38:51]

Well, it's like if you're climbing up a mountain and you get to a certain point where you say, uh-oh, you know, I don't think I can go any further than this. That's your gut feeling. Even though your decision is to climb up the mountain. Now you say, at that point, shall I continue with my decision? or shall I change my decision and do something else? You have a choice at that point. And I've seen people walk out of Zen Dojo at that point. They do. Or do something. Most of us continue with our decision, right? And then we have, you know, it's rocky from there on. It's really rocky. And you have to decide, you know, moment by moment, and what am I going to do? Am I going to continue or not?

[40:14]

And you have that decision, moment by moment, actually. You have the possibility of choice, and you're making a choice, even though you may not think you're making a choice. Each moment of difficulty means that somewhere in your conscious or subconscious mind, you're making a choice to continue or not. But you're always looking for the way to continue. And after one moment of deep breathing, just getting through a few breaths in an extreme situation, A few moments ago I was thinking, how am I going to do this? How am I going to get through the next moment? And now I'm at this moment. And while I'm thinking, now I'm at this moment, and that moment's actually passed, and now I'm at this moment. And somehow, I seem to be continuing.

[41:18]

It kind of goes like that, moment after moment. 15 minutes ago, or whatever that was, however you want to count, I was thinking the same thing, and yet here I am, now. And I thought I couldn't get through that point, but now here I am, still doing this. So, we find that somehow we get through these things. And you're still doing it, right? But it gets very rocky, it's very difficult. And we think, my gut feeling, and my feeling is, I'm hurting myself, blah blah blah, something like that. Is this right? Is this human? Is this according to human standards of what you should be doing to yourself? You know, I appreciate the

[42:24]

But, you know, the choice is always up to you, even though, you know, we make it, we set up a condition where we don't want you to change your mind. We don't, not you, but I'm not putting you against me, but we set up conditions where it's not easy to change your mind, you know, during this kind of activity because It becomes very strict to encourage you to continue. Because, sure, there comes a point where everybody questions it. Every one of us, we all question it. God, should we continue to do this? How did I get here? I'm never going to do this again. But then, you know, you sit down again and rekindle him, because he's changed. Oh, God, now I have to sit down again and say it.

[43:29]

That wasn't good, too. On energy, what is the source of this energy, and is it finite? Well, from my limited knowledge, I think it's infinite. And the question is, whose energy is it? Where does this energy come from? What is this energy? So, if we think that it's my energy, now we have a little problem. So, exerting energy, exerting ourselves, is actually allowing energy to flow. What we're doing, actually, is allowing something to happen. And we meet energy with energy. Energy seeks energy.

[44:29]

Buddha seeks Buddha. Effort seeks effort. If you say, what is the point of all this effort? Where is it going? What is it producing? It's producing effort. The energy is producing energy. Mindfulness is meeting mindfulness. It's great. Buddha is meeting Buddha, because that's where it's going. Dissipate, what's that about? I mean, I'm just curious because I don't, I'm not familiar with that. Dissipate. For what reason? Oh yeah, of course there are.

[45:44]

But I don't know if that's what you're talking about. Well, it's a term, and I don't know what it means anything or not. You know, I don't know. But we certainly think about things that we do, or I certainly think of things that I do, that we just like to do. Or you. Yeah. And I wonder if we don't allow it to happen, if energy is something we allow to happen, if the other side's rude, Do we do things to stop it? Sure, of course. We always thought we'd do things to block energy. Of course. So anyway, in samsara, the whole thing should help us release energy, if we're doing it right. Or releasing light. Or just letting it flow. If we just stand out of the way, that's really all we have to do. Meet, you know, put ourselves, offer ourselves in the best possible way we can, and then get out of the way.

[46:54]

Yvonne, do you have something to say? Oh, I was thinking about the kind of dissipating energy we sometimes talk about, that can happen and we can go out and spend our energy, the energy that our lives are getting, by talking a lot, going to a party, and chatting, and eating. But you know, there's a certain quality we have in this machine, that You know, after we go out the door we can do anything, you know, because there's nothing that you have to do, really. And then, jeez, you know, like a kid, maybe I'll go down to the ice cream store, you know, and get ten chocolate sodas.

[47:58]

We have that kind of exuberance. So you have to be kind of careful. It's as if you were jailed. Day after session, just go to work. Nothing special. Sit down the next morning. And just go about your business as if nothing happened. Back to... some of what was being talked about with the gut feeling. What do you do with kind of the opposite end of that, which is when people get either prideful or frightened of the circumstances that are set, don't know enough about their own body, and couldn't stop them, couldn't have allowed them to have done that.

[49:01]

That's why, you know, the recommendations always go slow. Go slow. Don't be insistent in charging into practice. You know, practice is like a wall, right? And it's like you're riding your motorcycle. And if you ride your motorcycle into that wall, you know, you get all smashed up. So, you know, approach it. We always approach slowly, little by little. We should be encouraged to do that. Encourage people to do that. I won't push this further, and I don't know if there's any answer anywhere, but it seems to me that a number of people, and I'm aware of this myself, didn't do it at first. They've been around for many years, have not listened to their bodies. And that's... We set this structure, and we want this structure to keep us on track,

[50:03]

I think we have to be careful because we have a strong tendency to push. But at the same time, if we don't have a balancing tendency, then we get in trouble. And we need to, like Martha said, we need to really pay attention to the balancing tendency of that pushing, which is, don't push so hard, listen to yourself, listen to your gut feeling, and even if I say, don't uncross your legs, you should uncross them, if that's what you feel you need to do. So, that's a difficult point. You know, you've got to say, well, all of the forces are telling you to do this, but my body's telling me to do this.

[51:12]

And you have to be able to take that to there. But when you do counter to what the prevailing forces, you do it with equanimity. Right? Don't say, oh I'm bad, or I'm doing the wrong thing. Take, have confidence in your counterness, or whatever you call it, in your, what you feel you're doing is the right thing. Really be confident. And stand up for yourself. But, you know, not, I'm bad because I crossed my legs, or I'm bad because I'm doing this a little differently. I don't think that, even though the tendency is to do that, because you're doing something different.

[52:18]

So that's a good test, you know, of equanimity. It's just, I have to do this, I'm doing it, it's fine. Thank you.

[52:45]

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