I'm happy to be together with you again. Good morning. And I hope sometimes we're together when we're not. Yesterday I looked in on the small groups And when I opened the door to one of them, I was greeted with something like, we didn't understand a thing, but there was a feeling. well of course I want to know what you didn't understand and I hope you're ready if not prepared to share some of the discussion you had anyway I'm interested in knowing what isn't understandable

[01:13]

But I also somehow find it quite amusing. Maybe my language is a bit like a car park. I mean, a parkplatz, yeah. You know your car and you know exactly where you parked it. But when you come back, there's too many cars and too many levels, and you don't know where your car is. Yes, you know exactly what I said, but you can't find it. Hmm. Anyway, you know, you drive all this way through snowy weather and you get here and what's the result?

[02:31]

I didn't understand a thing. I find this very funny somehow. What are we doing? You know, I struggle with every word and every sentence. And only when it starts to clarify my own understanding does it fall into place in language. But then you say, we didn't understand a thing. Oh! Oh boy, what a life. Anyway, but there's a word in Sanskrit, Satya, S-A-T-Y-A. A pre-Buddhist Indian word. Which means... usually translated as truth or Wahrheit in German.

[03:48]

I know the word Winterschlaf too. And it's derived from to be in Sanskrit. And it so exists in English as is and sein. But it's used in an interesting way. And it's used sometimes to mean that speech itself is being. Speech itself corresponds to being. It's used to mean that language doesn't explain being.

[04:49]

It is being. So it's not the logic of language in which understanding is likely to be, but the presence of language. And that's certainly a Buddhist idea of language, because much of Sangha life is meeting and speaking. And in that sense, all forms of meeting are speaking. For example, when Nico hits the bell in the morning, It's a form of speaking.

[06:11]

And sometimes the tradition, as I said earlier I believe in the seminar, you have a sense of what the bell is saying. You bring a saying to the hitting of the bell. So I hope at least that if I'm speaking from my understanding, If my understanding isn't always in the car park of logic, I hope it's sometimes in the presence of logic. So I'm giving a very positive interpretation to the person who said, we didn't understand a thing, but there's a feeling.

[07:20]

At least positive from my point of view. Thank you. Okay, so what would anybody like to say? Was möchte jemand überhaupt jemand sagen? Yes. She's the one who said it. The secret is out. Was ich zumindest, und ich glaube auch noch, vielleicht andere damit meinten, das nicht verstehen, aber ganz klar was fühlen. And that is what I meant, what you just said, is what I meant, I think others in my group too, is just not understanding but clearly feeling. Okay, thank you very much. And what I experienced in what happened in our group apparently is that we sort of tap around in the car park of logic in our group.

[08:31]

And the mental experience that speech is a living thing may get lost. Okay. And then the problems occur. Okay, thank you. Yes. Whatever you like. Each person in the same group was in a different group. And in the beginning when the group meets and there is exchange, it seems nearly impossible. Worüber wir jetzt da sprechen sollen und wie wir das tun sollen. about what we are going to speak and how we should do this or how we would proceed.

[09:42]

What question was it? Who knows what the question was? Who would like to say something? I'm so embarrassed. You must try harder. But every time it is absolutely amazing to me how it can turn and rotate. It is absolutely astonishing how this is turning and changing and leaving this car park of logic and somehow approaching that which is already knowing. And also when people who are here for the first time and people who have already come for a long time, a colourful mixture, a colourful impression which is given.

[11:06]

Yes. Does this really make me feel that a conversation is possible where I have the impression that I know every side, I can turn and turn it and every person who says something about it, that also takes me away, that also takes me away and I recognise it. And I can look at it from any side and what any person in this group is saying and adding and it meets me, so to say, from every angle. Is the exchange possible? And although up until the last moment this impression, I can't understand this intellectually, it isn't possible to understand, still, yeah? The exchange is possible?

[12:11]

This recognition, this seeing, where we move together and what we investigate together, It's recognizing and seeing what we are exploring together and what we are seeing together. Okay. Yes. It's interesting because exactly with the same impression I left the group and not this group. I think we live in a culture where the observation of mental processes apart from psychological regards is just not existing. The beginning of a group always is a bit stumbly until you get to the point where you can talk from your own experience.

[13:25]

Just two examples and it is possible to recognize the mental state in everyday routine. And the possibility to change that when you settle down within yourself, And you don't identify and get not infected by that which is getting into you, streaming into you. The second example is during a zazen period, within a zazen, where strong back pains occurred.

[14:48]

A mental state occurred where the image was, I am being treated, my bag is being treated. Treated? Treated, yes. Where the success was that the pain had gone. Good. And if you know other locations, In Freiburg it was where Brother David talked about the Milgorian Chorals. And it started in Latin, a Gregorian chant. Astonishing enough, not a few people could just by heart join him and chant along in Latin.

[16:23]

Yes, I remember. And a very dense atmosphere was created by this. Yes. which lasted for many minutes even after the quarrel stopped. I feel like I'm in a tennis game. For me it was just this strong feeling present, nothing else. One sentence. Because it's carnival. I would like to try to say a seasonal, not only seasonal definition of Sasa in mind. I want to give a seasonal definition of Sasa Mind.

[17:24]

Sasa Mind can also be the ability to laugh about the mental product that we call ego. Southern mind can be the ability to laugh upon the mental product, which we call ego. Okay. That's good. All right, someone else? Yes. No, you're not. Maureen? It's important for me to say, and I think I'm speaking from the heart of many of us, how I'm grateful for your patience and your loving kindness to repeat again and again what you said.

[18:35]

I never repeat myself. Okay. Thank you. And I think that even if there is a feeling that you don't really understand the whole thing, that you don't understand it, but you can tell it or give it back, I think it's for everyone that he takes something home with him. And that's definitely the case with us, that this process, when we are here, takes at least half a year, so that we can understand something in retrospect or take on something from the seminar. although we probably might not understand the whole scope of this big mind and things still we are grateful and we're taking with us at home for let's say for at least half a year we have some fruits which we can pick and digest and eat and which nourish us good I hope so thank you yeah Carolina

[19:46]

To gather what we talked about, two main topics. First the noticing itself. There is one's own mind and the mutual mind, yes. Can the mutual mind noticed the same way like one's own mind or articulated? The mutual mind notices through our own mind.

[20:51]

The question was, can the mutual mind notice the same way like you notice your own mind? Often it is that you only afterwards know in which mind you notice what. The feeling there is just an inside, there is no outside. And the special person has remarked that this is the only world in which I live in. Still, you can't get into contact with others. The Skandas were a topic and if it were possible, if something occurs, not to just rush to the fifth Skanda but probably stay in the first Skanda.

[22:05]

Rushing to the fifth skandha. Could be the title of a book. Intention is important for many people. And we found it is important to form or build this intention but then sort of forget about it and let it sort of withdraw into the back, like words. In German, intention is... Abstention, so to say.

[23:25]

Absicht. What? To do away with intention. Abstention is to do away with intention. Yes, but... In German it's the same word. Abstention in English means to refuse to do something. But I understand. But you abstain from your intention once you have formed it. It's not worthless, but it's just... Yeah, I understand. No, it's like that. The word for intention in German is to... It has to do with seeing. But it also means to look away. Okay. It's a double meaning. Thank you. A little Irish wisdom. Thank you, Valentin. Yeah? That was good. Thank you. Just a short... Oh, it was... Much more. A lot. Thank you.

[24:26]

Yes? We tried to talk in our group about the phenomena of the mind. And for me, the question is whether the phenomena of the mind are actually so that we... Mm-hmm. Yes, end product. The question was if the phenomena of the mind are something like an end point, the end of a dynamic, the end of an energy, the surface of an entity probably, if that's the phenomena, the finishing point of the mind. Okay. that's a good observation but I'd rather not respond to it because it's that kind of observation it's good to stay with and not try to resolve but just stay with the observation yeah go ahead

[25:49]

I have my cataract problem and I can only see you like you're in this wonderful halo. I can't change it. No, no, it's great. It's sort of like this shimmering glow around you. Go ahead. It's not just the windows. It's maybe you. The other thing about this topic The other topic or problem was that it's about noticing breath and noticing the spine, but separately. Yes. and only the spine, without breathing, that this becomes a rigid picture for me. So I realized that I need an energetic process to wander in the body, to absorb and perceive it.

[27:10]

I talked with Ulli about it and she seemed to have the same observation. When I'm just looking or just observing my spine, there is something static about it. And what I need is, I need an energetic, a dynamic process to wander about in my body. Is that right? Yes. Maybe breath, maybe emotion. Emotional. Yes. The image of the spine just stays like a photograph. Your experience of what you mean by observing is rather static and like a photo or something. If I split it up. I understand. Okay.

[28:14]

Why did I separate them? I think I should respond to that. Not wait till the end. First of all, we have the second skanda of feeling, which I describe as non-graspable feeling. And I try to give you a sense of its existence and definition by saying, for example, right now in this room there's a certain feeling. And most of what is happening in this room is... The medium for what's happening is that non-graspable feeling.

[29:23]

And if you try to identify it or take hold of it, it's gone. It's slightly different. Every moment, like the wind on a pond. Okay. When I say bring attention to the spine, that Experiential attention is not like a photo or observing. But is a feeling of attention. Maybe like the right hand can feel the left hand. It's not a picture, but you can feel the right hand, the left hand.

[30:35]

And you can shift it so the left hand feels the right hand, and the right hand is receiving. That's quite subtle, actually. But you can even feel without touching, you can feel the right hand feeling the left hand without even touching the right hand. So I'm speaking about that experiential attention. It's like a non-graspable feeling. That's much more not very close to a photo or the kind of... often what we mean by observing. Now this non, to know without grasping, through non-graspable feeling,

[31:36]

could be one way we define Zen mind. Now, why did I say bring attention, meaning non-graspable feeling attention, To the spine. And bring breathing to the spine. Now, breathing has a very distinct pulse. Non-grippable feeling has a different pulse. And it's like two bells. You can ring them together and they either work or don't work. Two different bells.

[33:02]

We have the Incans that we do ceremonies with where one goes bing and the other one goes bong. If you don't buy the right bells, get the right bells. One goes bing and the other goes bong. They don't fit together. Good translation. Thank you. I get to practice. So it's because of that difference in rhythm and the subtlety that happens in the overlay of those two pulses why I said do it separately. You may think I don't know what I'm talking about. I asked myself the same question which you asked. Why do I say it that way? Someone else. Yes. We had some difficulty getting into the discussion and eventually Katrin spoke about the field.

[34:22]

And the moment she said that you mentioned it, I was able to experience or notice that which had already been taking place before this field. But it needs practice, but it also needs hints. For the observation of the processes of your own mind. And then there was one aspect to these 10,000 hours.

[35:50]

Another aspect about the 10,000 hours. The 10,000 hours in the positive practice in Zazen, The positive aspect of the 10,000 hours is our practicing of sadhana, which is at least 10,000 but much more actually than these 10,000 hours is our everyday mind. Absolutely. And that made it very clear to me how much you are fighting against here, or not fighting against, but how difficult it is from this very practiced, that we are very practiced in this ... And that made the difficulties there and how much we are in practice of this everyday mind.

[36:58]

How difficult this is to get right out of it. You can bring attention to the breath and bring attention to the spine in all your activities. The 10,000 hours go by and if you, you know... So you can pay attention to your breathing and pay attention to your spine in every age activity and so these 10,000 hours pass really quickly. It's a shortcut. the spine and the breath are the two main shortcuts to realization and I like that you used the word hints because I'm trying to present to you a structural and conceptual understanding of practice But you shouldn't use it as a conceptual understanding, but as conceptual hints.

[37:59]

They're not like maps or boxes, but more just like signs. Munich, this direction. But you don't know which route to take. Someone else. Thank you. Yes. The last hint also was used for me in our group, and no one in our group could actually say which question was meant. Yeah, yeah, I understand.

[39:14]

I failed, but I will keep trying to succeed. No, but it was important because... That made it possible that a process got started, where not only we followed what you said, but we discovered our own things, our own processes. Otherwise it would be dangerous, otherwise it would be ideology. Then it would be Roshi ideology. And just because it is an open process, we also bring something back with us. And it is not just a thought construct in which you are always self-confident that everyone has understood what you said, but everyone is also new to it. Otherwise, if we just would follow what you said, it would be sort of ideology, probably. It would be dangerous.

[40:16]

But in this, what we are discovering, our own process and so on, so it's, yes, our own. Yeah, well, that's what I want, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yes. In our group we tried to speak about where in our everyday life we notice mind. An event of a week ago occurred to me. I was going through my flat I was expecting a certain person to be in one room where she wasn't and I met her unexpected in another room just that moment

[41:31]

I fade into a completely empty room before I saw it. Like a cut between one mind, the expected situation, and I have to face a completely different reality. A cut between those. What space is it? It is really empty. Yes, that's actually one of the entries to the experience of emptiness. The experience of unfindability. Also die Erfahrung von Nichtbestimmbarkeit. You look for your dog or your spouse or a friend in a house. You expect them to be there. And you keep having the experience of not finding. And that's one entry into the experience of emptiness. Also du guckst nach deinem Hund oder deiner Liebsten. Very traditional.

[42:41]

You can find it in books. Findest du nicht und findest du nicht und findest du nicht und findest du nicht. Das ist eine traditionelle Form, also den Einweg, den Zugang zur Leerheit zu bekommen. And the feeling was there's no continuity. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anyone else? Yes. Oh, yes. I'm glad you came on Saturday. I notice that when I notice my body, I do it through my mind. Actually my mind is doing the noticing of the body. You said yesterday that you can notice the body separately from the mind.

[43:51]

But awareness towards the body is not the same. And practice develops that sense of the physicality of mind more and more. And the practice is to develop the physicality of the spirit more and more? Yes. This we worked with and at this point in our group. that you use words and sentences, mental things, as a medium. We call it a vehicle, but, you know, as a medium. Yeah. To let a recognition, an experience, an insight let it into the body.

[45:07]

That there are moments where we can feel that the body is recognizing this and not the mind. This is the difference. I'm very pleased with the fruit of your discussion in which you didn't understand anything. I'm very impressed, actually. Now, because it's Sunday and because people have to leave in the afternoon and blah, blah, blah, snow and... we stop at lunchtime. So there's only one session left. And so do you have anything you'd like me to speak about? Anything that you'd like me to try to make clearer or should I just go on to new topics? I mean not new, I promise I won't do that entirely.

[46:16]

Yes? Yesterday for the first time you talked about vitality and I would like to say a bit more whereas the first moment you talked about it I wasn't so glad that you spoke about it but I would like you to say more about it Okay. Why would you not be glad to hear? Anyway, okay. Iris? The question, how to notice one's own mind and mutual mind. I was in the same group and we started talking about it and started practicing. This would be interesting for me. Yeah, okay. I think it's interesting to hear how you notice your own mind and how you share it with each other.

[47:19]

mutual, yeah, gegenseitig, gemeinsamen Geist bemerken kann. Yes. Please, how exactly do you form an intention which is not just a thought? Okay. This is the main thing which... Yeah, that's how you do it. Sieht wie ein gutes Beispiel aus. Okay. Somebody else, any other requests? Everything was crystal clear. Yes. We're looking for how you notice your mind, the mind. And something touched me quite vividly what you had said before.

[48:26]

And I noticed that it sort of carried it with me all the time. It was a picture, the image of the snake and the bamboo. And that was the only answer that I found for myself, whether I was observing the spirit or the state of the spirit, this meeting and this union of the snake and the bamboo rope, it was the only the answer that came and I couldn't put it into words but this image was how they unite and how they the snake and the bamboo how they come together that was actually my answer this is always present yes I spoke yesterday quite often about we create a mind and it interests me also in German.

[49:40]

It's better to start in German. Roshi spoke yesterday quite often that we create this state of mind and I am interested There are different states of mind, apart from our everyday mind, what kind of activity it is, how far this activity is turned back into recklessness. Would you like to say it yourself, please? You spoke about to create these states of mind and what is of interest is what kind of activity does it need and is it a kind of

[50:48]

switch, turning the intention into not intention. this kind of activity, because there are so many different states of mind, and I understand that with the sentence you can do this, and with the ungraspable feeling or attention you provoke this, you provoke different... I understood this somehow or not, but there is a question behind of how active Yeah, okay. Thanks. I think I understand. Yes? I would like to say a few things. The word suffering or suffering does not appear in your topography or in your notes. And for me it makes a certain difference whether I am the same as a

[52:01]

A little astonishment from my side. I noticed that you didn't mention the word or the term suffering. And for me, zazen is a beautiful occasion to diminish suffering. More so than to conceive of zazen as a promise of a joyful state, blissful state.

[52:47]

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