I'd like to talk about responsibility. This question has come up with some people. If there is this imagination of an author, of an entity,

[01:02]

It is imagination of an entity, and we think that entity can offer acts. Then you might say, oh, you're responsible. But that way of talking, I would point to as a little bit confused because There was an imagination of an entity, but there wasn't. You didn't imagine it. You didn't imagine the entity. The entity is imagined. Then you imagine another entity, which you think imagined the entity. And then you say, oh, that entity is responsible for imagining this entity. So if there's a prior entity already imagined, then If there's imagination of further entities, we blame it on the previously existing entity.

[02:05]

Okay. So I just said, if there's imagination of an entity, then you could state that that entity could... This is the core of karma. Okay? Any questions about that? Okay. You're talking about seeing someone else. Wait, I didn't notice someone else. It's just one of those... There's an imagination of an entity, and then there's the idea that there is an author, that the entity could be the author of an act. Any questions about that? We're not talking about anything else yet. Do you understand that? Okay. Now, if we say, if the words come out, you know, but, now, who is responsible?

[03:16]

And what is responsible? If this imagined entity perpetrates, who is responsible for it? Yes. Pardon? The entity... The entity which is the author of the act is responsible for the act. Yeah. I think that's where the responsibility actually... I think that's actually where it goes. Now, we can get confused about that, but I think that's really where it goes. In fact, that's where it goes. And if we talk more, confusions may arise about where it should go, but I think that's really where it goes.

[04:23]

And I oppose to that, as that's the way the mind fundamentally at the core works that way. Let's see. the imagined entity which could seem to have the authorial ability or could say authority in making that responsible place. That's where the responsibility is and that's where the results come back. Now, when we talk this way or when I talk this way, I often find in my own mind, and I know that people's minds too, that they think somebody, another entity, actually imagined this entity. You don't do that. I said, when an entity is an, when an entity, when there's an imagination of an entity, okay, and that entity has the

[05:32]

power to offer acts, then when we think about that, oftentimes people think that somebody imagined, but there was an entity that imagined that entity. Rather than just there was life. And then imagination of an entity occurred. Everyday example is what I just said. Today, this is today, right? This is not every day. This is just today. I said that an entity is imagined, and I think that people then think that somebody just imagined that. Yeah, that somebody imagined the entity. Well, the entity is self. I'm calling it self. But so that's the example here.

[06:33]

Can't that be the everyday example? It's not. Can you imagine an entity? Yeah. OK. So that's an entity that imagines an entity. That's the example. Except that I said to you, can you imagine the entity, right? But if I don't say, can you imagine If an entity is imagined, then we do think, oh, I imagined the entity, or you imagined the entity. Then we back up the entity process backwards. We assume that there was an entity before the entity was imagined. So somebody imagined that entity, so the entity process goes backwards indefinitely. Even though I'm proposing that a living creature, that there was a time when there was a creature who didn't think of herself as an entity.

[07:39]

Thought of an entity. Once you, and then the entity happens to be associated with this person, and then this person, this entity, goes around imagining entities. But actually, the imagination necessarily isn't done by an entity, it's done by a living system, which has imaginations. Once you think of an entity, then you project the entity onto everything, including backwards onto the event. But there wasn't necessarily one. And when I said it in terms of the imagination of entity, for a second there, people weren't necessarily thinking, oh, who did that? Because I wasn't really saying I imagined the entity. I just said the imagination. So, you see, what could happen then is that instead of the entity, the imagined entity getting the responsibility, I get the responsibility.

[08:57]

Me, Reb, gets the responsibility. The entity, the imagined entity, the real Reb, who imagined an entity, he's responsible for the imagination of the entity, so it actually comes back on him. Then he was tracked that I was an unimagined entity, too. And that part, and that kind of vibration around is part of it is why I'm starting to get confused about this. Also, this whole discussion of the world and karma and rebirth is in the realm of imagined entities where we think we're, you know, we think the world is an entity. So it's kind of confusing to talk about this because the system we're talking about, we fact that it isn't really happening.

[10:03]

But still, in this system, that's how the responsibility works of the imagined entity, the author. Here's another reason why I bring this up. It's because nobody outside is pointing and saying, that's the responsible one. I'm saying that now, but I'm not outside this. I'm not an entity outside this, pointing to this, saying that, is responsible. I'm saying that the way this works is that the imagined entity is responsible. I'm not saying blaming, okay? But the reason why I don't want to be like outside here making this up. I want to say that's really the way it is. And the reason why I want to do this is because I want to point out that it's not because this imagination is a bad guy that it's responsible.

[11:12]

It's only responsible because that's the way karma happens. It's big feet. But there's not really a person there. It's just the imagined entity. And that relates to the scripture I want to read, and it relates to this thing about, you know, well, various things. But in other words, there is responsibility for karma within the definition of karma, but only because this thing is the only way that the act happened. But it isn't exactly that this thing is the reason why the thing happened. You can imagine nature. is what the karma depends on. If you take away this imagined entity, there's no karma, and there's nobody responsible for karma either. So the only thing that seems to be imagined to be able to do it is the thing that's responsible, and it's also the result.

[12:15]

So this thing goes like this. But there's nobody outside of this person. This person only gets punished as a result of the act because this person said they could do it. If they didn't think they could do it, they don't get punished. It's only because of the power to do that this thing gets the results of the doing. And this thing doesn't get any... I'm going to say this, and I haven't thought about this yet. You might be wrong. This thing doesn't get any retribution outside of what it thought it could do. No kind of and attack this thing or punish this thing other than what this thing is imagined to be able to do. No judgments of this thing come except by that. I find myself, yeah, my mind is searching for a big example.

[13:21]

I somehow get a good gratitude in life. Well, You know, I don't know what you meant by that, but what I thought was that when... then that thing has gravitational capacity. Because we say, you know, every body attracts other bodies, right? Every body has gravitational capacity, right? Every body attracts other bodies. That's the world we live in.

[14:26]

But the world we live in, it's not the real world. The real world doesn't have bodies. But once you make bodies, they have the capacity to attract other... Well, maybe. We don't imagine that every body has capacity. We don't imagine that the cup... The cup has gravitational capacity. The cup can attract everything that attracts the cup, and the power of attraction is directly proportional to the mass of the probably imagined entity, right? This cup could be seen in the cup, and it attracts the Earth, and the Earth attracts it, but also this could be seen as part of the Earth's equipment that the Earth uses to try to move. Is it the case that when you have a thing, and the thing attracts a whole bunch of other things to it, that then the mass of the thing increases once those things are adhered to it?

[15:33]

I think so. If the Earth were to attract things from other places, now, I don't know, is the Earth attracted to other places? Yes. attract meteors. When it attracts them, it grows. But this thing came from the earth, so it could really just pop out of the earth and stay on the earth. So this could actually increase the mass of the earth. But once you take this thing and lift it up, break it from the earth, it draws it back itself. This also lifts the earth up a little bit. This whole thing about the earth being a thing and this being a thing on the earth, this is all due to our imagination, right? This is what humans think, is that the planet, which is separate from a moon, this is our world, right? There's other ways of looking at it, right? Even physicists, even humans can look at it other ways, right? And we also know that there's other animals living on this planet who look at it other ways.

[16:37]

They don't see cups and people. Right? They don't see robots in people. They don't see, like, they don't see, like, androids in people. That's what they see. So, again, a thing has consequences. Is that a thing, if we imagine a thing has mass, it has gravitational ability, but nobody outside is, like, pointing at a thing and saying, okay, now I'm going to punish you by giving you gravity. or I'm going to reward you by getting you cracked. It's the imagination that creates the power of the thing. This gives you a little bit of an idea about how we can say that the world is created by karma. . I wouldn't say done by.

[17:47]

Again. I might have, but I'm not saying it. I'm not saying done by. It's more like a byproduct of. It's like, would you say that the living system does sweat? We don't usually say that, right? We could. We could change the diction of English. We could say the body did the sweating rather than the body sweats. Some living systems give off, some living systems give off imagination, but not all living systems do, right? Even ones do, unless it's burned down. It's considered a damaged human. Most people would consider it a damaged human. Couldn't imagine. Okay. Okay. Well, um, uh, I'm

[18:52]

The words are coming out in this world, and the words are saying, an imagined entity is what it takes to get this thing of action going. And I'm also just parenthetically mentioning that those words seem to require a living system in order to happen. But I don't necessarily have to say that living system is a thing. I don't have to say that. I can say living system without thinking that the living system is a thing. I have not yet said that living system is a thing. I don't have to think that way. So the living system, which is the place where these words are coming, I don't have to make those words into karma. I don't have to think that way. I don't have to make the living system the author. I don't have to make the living system an entity.

[20:16]

When I say living system, I don't have to say that this living system is like ends here. It's here, but I don't have to say it ends here. I don't have to think of it that way. I don't have to make this living system I'm talking about an entity. When I say this living system, I don't have to mean something ends around this cloth. I could perceive of, I could understand this living system as indefinite and not an entity. And yet it has qualities. This living system has qualities like it can be touched. It can respond to touch. It can respond to light. But I don't have to say it is isolated over here. I don't have to say that. And I don't have to say it to say these words.

[21:17]

Yeah. And I could also not think of it that way and make it into that. I could just have a sense of some kind of interdependent event. And it's a kind of system. And I could feel it related to everything else in the universe, and it has no independent existence. And it does not have the authorial power to speak. And from this living system, words come out, and the words are about another way of looking at the world, other than the way I'm trying to come from. And that is a karmic way of looking at the world. And the karmic way of looking at the world can be described by a living person, like the Buddha. The Buddha was... The Buddha was like a mouthpiece of a living system. Words came out from the... But the Buddha didn't say, I end here.

[22:23]

He said, the buck stops here. But he didn't say, I end here. The Buddha spoke for... the liberated kind of life, which isn't entity-oriented, but he also told stories about beings who... that there are entities, that they themselves are entities, and that they themselves have power. And that's the definition of karma. It's entities imagined to exist and having the power to act. And that system is a system of karma. And that system makes a world which has things and which has suffered. Again, I'm trying to point to where the responsibility is, and not from outside. I'm talking about it, but I'm not assigning it. I'm trying to show that the nature of the thing itself creates the responsibility. Not us, not God, not society. The thing itself, the way it works, is that naturally it produces the youth,

[23:31]

That consequence will come back to the producer. That's the responsibility of karma. Now, the next part is, now I'm going to do the scripture, which is a little bit different. This scripture is talking about who's responsible for suffering. And I think the scripture is called, it's part of a scripture. It's actually, it's a kind of like, it's from the kindred sayings of the early teachings. The kindred sayings, it's kind of, they're not like, they're a bunch of related little talks. And it's called the unclothed ascetic. Okay. Okay. So, Ananda says, Thus I have heard, the exalted one was once staying near Rajagriha in the bamboo grove at Skanda ground.

[24:41]

Now, the exalted one, early morning, dressed himself, and taking the golden robe, entered Rajagriha. I guess it stands for Rajagriha, or palms, and Kashyapa, the palms. saw the exalted one coming from afar, and seeing him, came up to the exalted one and greeted him. And when compliments of friendship and courtesy had been exchanged, he stood to one side. So standing, Kasapa, the unclothed, said, We would fain ask Master Gautama concerning one point. if he would give us opportunity of hearing him reply to our question. The Buddha said, only just now for questions, Kasapa, we have entered the village. In other words, you know, the Buddha, when he went begging in the morning and people wanted to ask him questions, he would say, well, begging now, I don't give Dharma talks while I'm begging.

[25:55]

That was his style, right? And so he wouldn't be locked in a town begging and also giving dominic talks to the students as he's going. That wasn't his style. He was more concentrating on, OK, now we're begging you, please give us some food, and thank you very much, rather than chatting important topics as he goes. So giving a dignity to the process. Not the right time process, but later. But Kasipa made his request again and again and even a third time and received the same reply. When he had spoken, Kasipa, the unclothed, said, It is not many things we are fain to ask Master Gautama. So then Buddha says, Okay, ask Kasipa what you will. So they're breaking, you know,

[26:58]

to the sky, he's really saying, he's really begging. So he stops in the middle of the begging rounds, they're having this talk. Now Master Gautama, is suffering wrought by oneself? Not so verily. Beyond all doubt, not by the self, Gautama said. What then, Master Gautama, is suffering wrought by another? Somebody else responsible for the suffering? Not so, verily, Kasapa. What then is suffering wrought both by oneself and other? Not so, verily, Kasapa. What then, Master Gautama, has the suffering which is wrought neither by myself nor by another befallen by chance? Not so, verily. Kasapa, what then, Master Gautama, is suffering non-existent?

[28:04]

Nay, Kasapa, suffering is not non-existent. Suffering is. And Master Gautama neither knows nor sees suffering. Kasapasa. Then Buddha said, I am not the one who knows not suffering nor sees it. On the contrary, I am the one who sees suffering. I am the one who sees suffering. How now, Mr. Kelton, to all my questions, you have said not so verily. You have both affirmed that suffering is, know and see it. So declare to me, master, exalted one. Change his language.

[29:08]

Declare to me, exalted one, the nature of suffering. Teach me, master, exalted one, the nature of suffering. Okay? This is another matter about what happened here by asking these questions. And somehow he's shifting his language for some reason. He's seeing, he's getting... One and the same person. Both acts and experiences The results. Okay? One and the same person. One and the same person. Experiences the results. Okay? This Kasapra, which you called at first suffering self-wrought, amounts to the eternalist theory.

[30:10]

The eternalist theory So watch what happens here. This is what I was talking about earlier, okay? The imagination that an act can happen and lead to suffering and comes back to the author, that is actually how it works, okay? Now, they imagine that there's a person here, okay? that does this act and the same person is here and receives the results. You see that? But that's like making a person here in addition to just simply the imagination of the authorship. That's what we do. So then we think that we do it and same person gets the results.

[31:17]

But actually what happened is imagination of the power to act that's responsible. That delusion collects it. But if you think that a person's there, you think the same person's there through the whole process. But there's not a person there. There's just this power to act that's there that appears. We put a person here, and then the person is there to kind of the production of the action. And the same person is there to receive the action. So that would be what? That would be I do things and I get the same suffering comes back to me. So my suffering is self-draw. And that's the eternalist theory. That's the way of continuing self and that the self does things and gets the results. That's one view and Buddha said, uh-uh. It doesn't happen like that.

[32:19]

Imagine it that way, but that's called the eternalist theory. That's not, that's off to the side. However, there is this thing of if you imagine the power to act, that collects the result, that something does suffer. What suffers? The entity that suffers. The imagined entity suffers. Okay? That's one... That's the way that works. But the imagination of the self there, as the perpetrator and the experiencer, that's the self-wrought one, it was a no. Okay? Yes? You can make it a person, but then you would make it an imagined person. Pardon?

[33:21]

My magic thing. My magic thing. Settled. And I mean, you wouldn't have to do it that way. Pardon? Say again? Yeah, you could be like this. You could be like thinking you're Christina, right? And that you have certain limits, okay? And then you could think that you thought of an imagined entity. You could think that you felt that, right? And that you were one thing and the imagined entity is another. You could do that, right? Don't you? Yes, but also you could understand that the imagination of the power to do things, that that would be the source of the appearance of karma.

[34:41]

You could see that. And you could identify yourself with that, okay? And then it could happen. But if you didn't identify yourself with that, you would not receive the result that the imagination would receive the results, not you, unless you identify yourself with that. Not to identify yourself with it, okay? and then you think that you're the same person now as you would be when you receive the results, then you did the karma and you caused your own pain. But it's not as much that you did it, but that you imagined yourself in association with this imagined power. That kind of imagination puts you in a position where you will experience it, you receive it. And that you're the same person you were when you did it. same person when I did it, because I am now.

[35:43]

That's one way you could look at it. You could also look at it another way, which is coming up. Yes? If I don't carry a person, then where I have this just cognitively, there's nothing I can do. But you can still understand that if this thing went on, it would work that way. You can still understand that there is this imagination of this power, that acts can be done, arise, activity can be arisen, what this thing imagines it did, and then this thing will be connected to the results of that action. You can still understand that. even though you're not living in that world, you still know that this world can appear, that this story can appear, but you don't associate with it. Now, if you don't associate with it, I'll tell you beforehand, the suffering will be totally imaginary, and the action will be too.

[36:50]

But people do associate with it, so that's one of the cases which Kasipa can imagine is that suffering is brought. People can go with that one. That's one of the possibilities. And it turns out that that's the eternalist theory. Now, there's another possibility. One acts, another expects, which to one smitten by feeling occurs as suffering caused by another amounts to the annihilationist theory. Well, I got this funny translation. There's probably some justification for translating that word, but I'm afraid I don't understand it. Basically, if you think that when you have pain, the pain is caused by another, then that's the annihilation period.

[37:54]

And now still you're identified here. Some action has occurred, done by somebody, and now you're receiving the suffering. Somebody did something, and it wasn't me, and now I'm suffering. So somebody did something over there, and now here I am. That person's gone, and now here I am, and I'm getting the bad results. So my suffering is caused by another. But somebody had the power to do something. You're still thinking in those terms that there was a thing, And now there's me, and now it's happening to me. That's saying that something's completely gone, and there's no connection, there's no continuity. That's another extreme that's not right. That isn't the way it happens either.

[38:55]

But we can get into that. If you don't want the previous way, you can have this. But now when he analyzes it this way, it sounds kind of silly. But people do think that way sometimes. There's an alternative to the previous way. Most people don't take an alternative treatment. Anyway, there's two ways. There's two ways. One is I'm doing it for myself and other people are doing it to me. These are two ways. Both are saying there's an entity who can do something. There's other possibilities here. Yeah? Yeah. Can we talk about rebirth later? Remember your question? You know, if I get on, you see if I answer the question now, it goes like, this little parentheses turns, it takes over the whole day before we get, you know, finished this. It's right. You can write the question on the board, you know. If you can remember the question, bring it up pretty soon.

[40:01]

This is kind of a transition, you see. This is such a stage for this conversation. If you're asking, what are you anticipating? So give me a little bit more time before we blow into that tender topic. I bet Tai was missing this because this would help him understand. Okay. The other possibility is, of course, both of them. And then Buddha says, to you, Kasapada, to target not approaching either extreme, which is the norm of the middle way. Okay? Here's how it goes. The other experience too, right? Those other both and neither and no cause at all. By chance this all happens. Doesn't happen by chance. Okay? This thing about this thing about action doesn't happen by chance. Imagination of an actor of an entity that can do, that can, the entity which can have the power to author this shape of your mind, okay?

[41:14]

We got a mind, it's got a shape, there's impulses here, okay? You don't have to, there doesn't need to be an author of this shape of the mind. I do not need to be an isolated author of the shape of my mind. It could just be, there's life. Light can be touched all over the place. Light can be touched here. Light can be touched there. There's light all over the room. There's light all over the planet. All around the planet there's light, and you can touch it all over the place. When light hits it, you know, on that side of the room, Linnea and Judy kind of like... The Neil and Judy area responds to the light. Cut by the light. It's light that responds to the light. And to sound. And same over here, okay? That's one way to understand the world.

[42:16]

And all over the place, the light can talk, and the light can think. In other words, the light has these consciousnesses which can have shapes. But when you think that life at a certain location has the power to act by itself, that imagination then sets up time. And that imagination creates a world where all the different life forms are separate and are independent actors. And even beings who don't buy into that, who do not buy into that idea that life's in these little packages, We project action onto them, and we say that they do it. Like we say, flies do it. Mean fly. But the fly may not even be involved in this kind of work. In other words, flies may be, who knows, evolutionary, that the really good is waiting for a chance to be able to do karma.

[43:26]

I'm not sure. Anyway, before I get off into that, You see the point? The point is that light is not necessarily all these things. Light is all over the place and it has different organs. There's different organs all over the place. But these organs are interconnected and responsive to each other and to everything that's happening. Okay? So, the imagination of the ability to That's what we receive, in fact, in results. The person who is interjected in here is not the thing that causes the suffering. What causes the suffering is the imagination. The person is just another imagination. It's this delusion that causes the suffering. So then Buddha says,

[44:29]

Ignorance, karma come to pass. Ignorance activities come to pass. Conditioned by ignorance, karma comes to pass. So how does suffering arise? Conditioned by ignorance, karma comes to pass. This is how it happens. This is how suffering happens. Ignorance. What's ignorance? Ignorance means you ignore interdependence, and while ignoring, you imagine an entity. Now, if you don't ignore interdependence, and then imagine an entity, you won't fall for the entity being able to do something independently, because you see that the entity itself was actually not an entity, because you just imagine something which is in contradiction with what you see.

[45:37]

But you say, interdependence of something that's not interdependent. Interdependent universe has allowed a creature to be able to imagine something which is not interdependent. So it's kind of, you know, the interdependent universe has allowed us to imagine something that's not happening. We are allowed, we are supported, we are nurtured to imagine something that's not happening. It really is a free country. Something that's not happening, and believing that it's true, means you ignore the fact that interdependence has made possible your imagination of something nice.

[46:57]

In other words, that ignorance of how this imagination of independent thing happens, that ignorance now makes possible karma. Conditioned by ignorance, there's karma. Karma comes to be. This is the Buddha teaching. This is the key. Then, conditioned by karma, consciousness comes. Karma creates our consciousness. Now, once you've got consciousness, then you've got the ability to make more imagination, more karma. So then, conditioned by karma, comes name and form. mind and body, you know, self and other. So then in the shape of mind and body, sense, sensation, contact, feeling, craving, grasping, becoming, birth, decay,

[48:10]

Grief, suffering. This is how it happens, and this is also, by the way, the cycle of rebirth. This now explains how suffering arises, but in particular, it explains how it's cyclic, repetitive, what we call perpetual suffering. This is a perpetual suffering issue. The self does not drive. Another does not drive it. Ignorance drives it. The self, you can bring self into it. You know, you have a theory to bring self into it and try to blame it on the self, blame it on the other. But the point is, it's the ignorance and karma that drive this machine. That's the point. It's not self. It's not other. It's not by accident. It is by cause and effect, by ignorance and karma. Let me finish this.

[49:12]

It's so beautiful. But from the utter fading away and ceasing of ignorance and the rest comes the ceasing of karma and the rest. Even such is the ceasing of the entire mass of ill. Now Kasipa's getting it, right? When this had been said, Kasipa, the unclosed, said to these altered ones, Most excellent, Lord, most excellent. This, just as if a man were to sit up, set up that which had been, were to reveal that which was hidden away, were to point out the right road to him who had gone astray, were to bring a lamp into the darkness so that those who had eyes could see shapes.

[50:18]

Even so, Lord, Lord Gautama shown me his doctrine in various ways. I, even I, Lord, be taken to be the exalted one as my refuge I would leave the world under the rule of the Exalted One. I would be ordained. So here's the core of teaching of Dharma, teaching of Karma right here. So you see, you've got to go to this point and not let this self thing distract you. And now what about responsibility? Okay, we can talk about that. But see, it's not the person's not responsible. Not other people's responsible. So try to figure out, you know, if I give them my car, you know, am I responsible?

[51:19]

into, through the suffering of all that. Really, you can try to figure that out. Okay? And I think, I don't think, you know, in the realm of karma, I think you were okay. I think it was good karma that you gave in the car, in good condition, and wished him well. Okay? But still, when he gets in an accident, are you connected to that in any way? Is he connected to it in any way? Is he at fault, or are you at fault? Buddha doesn't say, Buddha says, no, that's not who caused the suffering. He didn't cause the suffering. You didn't cause the suffering. It didn't happen by accident, and he didn't do it. And no other group of people thought that. How did the suffering happen? It happened this way. That's how suffering happens. Now, if he had a car accident, and suddenly, you know, all of his deals evaporated, you know, then you would say, well, Well, then you can take credit.

[52:26]

Well, you can take, all of us can take credit for anything good that happens. But you can't take credit of suffering because suffering is due to ignorance. Ignorance is the birth of a person. Isolated person. Ignorance is not the birth of identity. You know, actually, I would take it a little bit further. Even not due to ignorance, birth of a person is due to dependent co-horizon. But the belief in the reality of the person is ignorance. Not due to ignorance, it is ignorance. And that's the thing that bases the karma. The ignorance and the karma together make the suffering. Not people. People are part of the ignorance system. People are part of what happens as a result of ignorance and karma. It's individual people.

[53:32]

Life is not from ignorance and karma. The little world we put around us are due to ignorance and karma. And in that world, ignorance and karma keep the world going. So now, if you want to ask questions about responsibility, codependence, and stuff like that, you can ask these questions, but in light of the teaching of the Buddha to keep track of the ignorance and karma that might be floating around in the middle of the conversation someplace, don't forget the ignorance and karma, which are really the source of not only suffering now, but they don't just cause suffering, leads to more ignorance and karma. Suffering which arises from ignorance and karma naturally is responded to by more ignorance and karma, which causes more suffering.

[54:33]

Suffering which does not arise from ignorance and karma is and does not necessarily lead to ignorance and karma. However, life has allowed ignorance And, you know, my feeling is that the reason why, you know, one of the reasons or one of the stories I tell about why ignorance happens is because it's too wonderful. And the living system just sort of couldn't stand it anymore and looked away and tried to make life into something little. Life became so spectacular and so wonderful. That living system just, you know, couldn't stand it anymore. It couldn't stand the brilliance and the wonder of life, so they wanted to make it little. And they did. They made it little, so they could know it. It's a very... It's a very...

[55:37]

Want to take a break or what? This is a fire drill. This is a fire drill. And as I understand it, we're not required to do anything. And now various... Fire people are running to their stations with all of their green gloves to protect you. OK, so you a privy to the origins of rebirth. This is how rebirth happens. So you see, rebirth is based on ignorance and karma. Rebirth is not actually life. That's why rebirth is, that's why karma, ignorance and karma are a problem because they cause suffering, and they don't just cause any old kind of suffering, they cause a suffering

[56:51]

which because it was set up by ignorance and karma, the suffering goes back and stimulates more ignorance and karma, and it just goes like that. So we've got a closed system of suffering. And the system just keeps going round and round. Not an eternal thing, but it imagines the eternal thing, or it imagines an annihilation thing. Various ways to... just keeps going round and round. It's all an illusion, but it hurts. And we're connected to this illusion. Because we're a living system which has created an imaginary world, and we live in that imaginary world, and that imaginary world touches our living. Our living touches it. We have to deal with it. This whole thing, this whole thing is based on ignorance. It's not real.

[57:52]

It's rebirthed. But yet, we have to accept that this does appear, right? This pattern of dependent coalescence. We can understand how it happens, but Buddha says we can become free of it. He understood it, and he became free. At that time, I did not have a thought of a person who was sick with influenza. And also no thought of ill will. So in that description, when you could take that description into a system where you did think the king was causing the suffering and hurting, and that they should be punished as a serial killer or something like that.

[58:55]

And they should go to prison. So the fact that the Brutal Informant Life did not see, did not have the ignorance of the separate self out. Allowed this to be. I don't know what exactly. The example is that one can't actually live like that. where the key of community is. It's just this thing out there. But to me, that was so extreme. But you now work up to a graduate. It's hard to imagine. Except just now, as you can count it.

[59:59]

That's... That's a system of suffering. But if we're in the system where we believe in the center of emphasis, then this person needs to be a process human. Well, not necessarily. You see, even if you still are in the center of emphasis and you haven't understood it yet, you can still practice patience. So Buddha tells his students, he says, you know, if people torture you and stuff like that, and you get angry at them, you're not my disciple. Even, you know, so... Patience and think of loving kindness to people who are attacking you. That's what his disciples did. Now it doesn't mean that you can't, you know, learn Aikido or something and find some way to disarm this person and stop hurting anybody else. But you deal with loving kindness.

[61:03]

You lovingly disarm this dangerous person. lovingly report to the police? Yeah. Is it necessary to lovingly report to the police? Yeah. But the point is you're trying to help this person. Really you are. Like you report to your own children to the police. My dad took me to the police station one time. He went in the police station and said, could we be all right if I show my son some of your cells? And they said, sure, go ahead, you know. So he brought me in there and brought me in the cell, which were filled with bicycles. There were no people in it. And he said, would you like to spend some time here? And I said, no. He said, okay, let's go. So anyway. Loving the way he did that. Huh?

[62:05]

No. Another thing I stole. Toy soldiers. I stole from the story. He took me to the police station to show me what might happen to a person who stole toy soldiers. I might have to spend some time in these. Not very well furnished cells. It's not like, they weren't like the cells, they weren't like the cells, you know, up in Mendocino County for the drug addicts, I mean for the marijuana growers. I heard they have really nice cells up there because the people run the jails up there, you know. They're friends with a lot of people who draw the marijuana, so they have TVs and, you know, nice padded bunks and stuff like that. to be in jail up in Minnesota County for drugs. It's true.

[63:06]

It's true. But this was like, you know, just a regular pre-six patient. Actually, nobody was in there. So it wasn't very attractive. So I decided to try to give up my... that he crept deeper in at that point. For some other reasons, too. But anyway, you can lovingly... try to interact with people, right? But if you understand what he understood, then you don't hardly even . But you still need patience, though, because your body can just react. So the combination of great patience and that kind of understanding You can be lovingly kind to someone who's doing this to you. Of course, you should stop if you could, but of course, it's hard to stop. So Buddha was doing pretty good in previous life, right?

[64:08]

He got pretty enlightened before he was enlightened. Yes? It's not that you don't have a sense of self, that you don't hold it. I don't think he didn't have a sense of self. I just think he wasn't believing and holding it. He could still have a sense of self. I mean, you know, like, I think of Buddha as, like, sometimes I think of Buddha as a big bus, you know, and you can sometimes, it has a little destination, you know, or something like that in front of the bus, where it's going, or where it's been, or where it is. You can change the dial on where the bus is. It doesn't really have that much effect. So you can change from nirvana to self. Buddha can have the sense of self that comes with the Buddha. How did Buddha get reborn? Maybe some other time he did.

[65:13]

So maybe some other time it did, that would be... Yeah. Another theory is, is that, it's called the Bodhisattva theory, right? Okay? We're getting... Not too much, because Bodhisattva theory is very importantly connected to rebirth. Although the Buddha in a previous life was pretty enlightened, he wasn't necessarily a Buddha. The Buddha's enlightenment, there are different kinds of enlightenment. Arhat enlightenment, the enlightenment that doesn't have rebirth. There's Bodhisattva enlightenment, which does have rebirth. Then there's Buddha enlightenment, which doesn't have rebirth. So the Arhat's understanding is actually equal to the Buddha's. The difference between the Buddha and the arhat is that the Buddha has the arhat's wisdom connected with great compassion.

[66:30]

So the bodhisattva attains arhatship because it attains the understanding of arhatship. They don't fall for the self-made anymore. They're not doing any karma anymore. But they don't vow to practice great compassion. And therefore, they don't get reborn. Bodhisattva is one who's tending toward Buddha. So Buddha was called Bodhisattva before he was. Even in the early scriptures, they called Buddha the Bodhisattva. Even before they had the bodhisattva idea, they called him a bodhisattva. Now we look back and we say, the Buddha was a bodhisattva because the Buddha, even though the Buddha was quite enlightened in that previous life, still, he was reborn and reborn and reborn because of Buddha. Reborn for compassion, to save all beings, to bring the Dharma. So he, we now say, he vowed to be reborn

[67:36]

In order to be reborn, you got to put on this kind of like self thing a little bit to get reborn. So you have to be a little defiled to get reborn. So the Buddha did get a little, he was willing to do that over and over so that he could become Buddha. And he did that out of great compassion so he could bring this wonderful dharma to us. So it was basically, that's telling that story was a successful operation. that he would obtain quite a bit of insight. And at that point, he wouldn't be a karmic operator anymore. But in order to become a Buddha, he had to be reborn again and again to perfect his teaching as Shakyamuni. And be not just a person of liberating insight for himself, but a person of great compassion. A combination made of Buddha, Arhat, And then finally it could be an arhat, not just with that action.

[68:41]

He did the arhat thing. He wasn't reborn. And looking back at that, a lot of his disciples just became arhats. They didn't understand. They forgot or didn't understand that he went through this evolutionary process by which he became a Buddha. And gradually they realized, oh, if we want to be not just an arhat, we're going to have to go through the same process he went through. we're going to have to not just get insight into this karma thing, which is what you're going to have at the end of this week, except that people leave early. But then after you're enlightened at the end of the week, you still have to, if you want to be a Buddha, you still have to develop great compassion. And then couple that with the enlightened people who leave early and have to take the cross again. For free. Huh?

[69:44]

For free? Yeah, for free. Definitely for free. And the Bodhisattva has compassion but doesn't have the wisdom of the Arhat? No, they can have the wisdom of the Arhat. Oh, they can? Yeah, like the Buddha. It looks like you have Arhat wisdom, okay? And then he just brought that to our heart and wisdom again and again, but kept developing his compassion along with it. The thing about great compassion is it isn't just that you... Great compassion isn't just wanting to help others and being willing to help others. It's actually doing the work, too. So when he was kind of liberated in that previous life... He didn't just say, okay, I also want to save all sentient beings and become a Buddha. He actually then did many more lives of actually including his last one, where actually he did a lot of work in the last one, too.

[70:45]

Post-Buddhahood and pre-Buddhahood. His work here that he did in this life was another life. He went through the same difficult process that he went through, and he made mistakes and stuff like that. He was doing more bodhisattva work prior to his enlightenment. Last life, too. And they call him bodhisattva. And then again, later in Buddhism, we realized that, oh, the Buddha was a bodhisattva a long time. So we have to do, that's where they said, oh, we have to do the same thing. We not only have to be an arhat, we have to be a bodhisattva, and through our bodhisattva, we can be a Buddha. Then we can give a teaching like Kiki. No one? Altruism isn't taking on the suffering of other beings. Altruism is wanting the welfare of others, wanting to help others. It's not wanting to save them, right?

[71:48]

Acting for their welfare. Acting for the welfare of the other with altruism. Altruism isn't taking on their suffering. It's seeing their suffering. Being empathetic to it. Being empathetic to taking it on. It means you feel it. That's not compassion. Compassion is more than empathy. Compassion is I want them to be free. And great compassion is I want them to be free, and I want to work to help them be free. That's great compassion. So great compassion involves empathy, sympathy, wishing them well, and being willing to work for them. And that great compassion, together with insight into how karma works, that makes it work. And previously, previous to that great compassion, you still could be very helpful to people with insight.

[73:09]

And even without insight, you can be very helpful to people. So you can be helpful to people prior to insight, after insight, and prior to Buddha. It just requires a lot of work to help people in combination with perfect understanding of karma and rebirth. And also taking breaks every now and then so that you can keep your body going. So you should take a little break now. What do you want? So did we kind of take care of that last thing you were bringing up?

[74:14]

And Breck, did you have a question while standing there? Do I understand the English or the translation of conditioned by ignorance? Depending on? Depending on? Conditioned by depending on? Depending on ignorance. Karma arises depending on karma. Depending on consciousness, name and form, sensation, contact, feeling, craving, grasping, becoming, birth, day, old age, death, grief, suffering, all that arises. This list here is the 12 links of how rebirth happens. So, I don't know if there's one.

[75:21]

I'll check this out. I'm sure it will rise again. I'll let it rise. If you say it's an imaginary self, you might fool yourself. if you think that you really do believe it's imaginary. Yeah, we really do. So I think you can understand that it's imaginary and yet realize that you don't believe that, the real self.

[76:24]

And so I think maybe rather than... I'm not sure that's a good way to meditate on the self. I'll listen to the grip. Study the grip. Rather than say, okay, you know, I'm going to lighten the grip. Which I'm not, you know, there's no rule against that. But this lightening the grip thing can be very tricky. It's like this, what do you call it, that famous story, you know, that I tell all the time about the art of archery. As the archery teacher says, you draw this bowstring back and just hold it until it is released. But don't, you know, voluntarily release it. It's like that. So you might think, oh, okay, well, I'll just sort of like, I'll hold onto myself a little grip and I'll loosen the grip. So this guy had this theory of, I'll loosen the grip, but I won't let go.

[77:26]

I'll just loosen the grip a little bit. And then after I loosen it a little bit, I'll loosen it again. So I'll hold on, half as hard as I did last time. And then I'll put half as hard as that, and half as hard as that, and half as hard as that. And finally he did that, and finally the string just went. I did it by this calculation method. And the teacher said, get out. Get out of this practice place. He said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Please let me stay. And he begged and he begged and came back many times over quite a long time. Finally, the teacher let him back in. And I think then he did pull the bowstring back and he just held it there. And one day it did go. It just went. The bowstring now, what are you aware of? You're aware of holding it. Rather, you know, very much aware of holding it.

[78:30]

Now, if you're not, if you just put the string down and put it down, you're not aware of holding it, right? You think you're not. So you've got to do this, then you can say, oh, now I'm holding it. If you don't sense that you're holding yourself, it's good to get into a practice where you can feel that you're holding yourself. You can feel that grip. If you feel that grip, then don't try to, like, talk yourself out of it. Say, well, I'll loosen up a little bit, and I'll loosen up a little bit, and I'll loosen up a little bit, and then it'll be gone. Then I let go of it. See, you still got yourself. You karmically figured out a way to let go. So that's why I'd be careful to say, oh, this is just an imaginary grip I have on myself. It happens. It's not really how you feel. You feel that cutting through your fingers. It hurts, you know. You're wasting your time. You could do something more interesting. You could be like shooting arrows or something. Or you could figure out a way to not do what the teacher said and at the same time get it over with.

[79:37]

So he figured it out. But he did hold it, and then finally it just went. The teacher said, you hold it, and he said, it will be like the spring goes through your fingers. That's what it will be like. It will go right through your fingers. That's what we're doing here. We're studying karma means we're looking at karma, which means we're looking at ignorance, which means we're looking at clean. If you can't see that you're clean, then you're just going to keep clean. You've got the habit of clean. You've got that. Then you're just going to have it indefinitely. But the clinging back there, if you're gripping yourself back there and you don't know about it, then you're just a normal person. You're not worse than anybody else. You've just got clinging and you don't know it. You've got to bring the clinging out in front. It's, you know, clinging to the self.

[80:44]

That's the source. That ignorance, that thing that you're holding on to, that ignorance, that's the basis of the karma. So you watch the karma. You watch the belief in the self. You watch that work. Watch it, watch [...] it. That's like holding a spring. You just keep watching it. Keep the pain of this thing. Study it, study it, study it. But don't try to lighten it up. Except, you know, lighten up the way you study it. That's okay. Be relaxed. Eat good food. Rest. Calm your mind. Do all that stuff. Just like you would do if you were holding a bowstring. You're going to hold this and hold this. Do it. Be relaxed. Now you can only do a certain amount about feeling the pain on your fingers. But you don't have to be careful. You can do this in the most relaxed way. That's okay.

[81:46]

If you're doing a hard discipline, it's okay to relax when you do a hard discipline. If you're climbing a mountain, it's okay to relax when you're climbing a mountain. Climbing a mountain's hard enough. You're making an effort. You don't have to be tense about it. Barefoot. It's okay to wear shoes most of the time. Matter of fact, if you don't wear shoes, you probably won't be able to go very far. So shoes are helpful. Thank you. But do you feel that grip? Do you feel that self-conceit? Do you feel the anxiety about what's going to happen to you? If you do, that's good, because that's the way people are. So if you don't know you're anxious, you're just not noticing what it's like to be a human. That anxiety is based on this delusion and karma. We're anxious about the karma we've done.

[82:48]

We're anxious about the karma we're going to do. That's where we're at. If you feel that anxiety, you're there. You're doing the work. So I wouldn't try to lighten it up by saying, oh, this is all imaginary and so on. You will realize it. We can realize that this is all empty if we accept that it's all formed. That we really think this is, it is a smell. I don't think it's a taste. I think it's a smell. This is a sound. It's not a light. It is a pain. It is a pleasure. It is clean. There is anxiety. Just, that's it. Don't try to lighten it up or puff it up. Just let it be what it is. That's keeping your mind at this very basic, disciplined level. where you're disciplining your mind as it's watching this, as it's watching ignorance, karma, ignorance, karma.

[83:50]

You're just watching, not lightening it up, not criticizing it, not praising it, not esteeming it, not despising it, just becoming very familiar with it, becoming very fluent with it. That's what I would like to mean. And then you'll realize how completely... Then you won't be telling yourself this is an imagination. Then you won't be telling yourself this is... You'll understand it, read it. And then everything will turn around, like we were talking about last night. So you have to really watch this self that does this. Self that pushes the world around. Watch that scene. See how that causes suffering. Watch it. So when we talk about being relaxed or light, that's applied not to this pattern,

[84:54]

but your way of taking care of yourself while you're studying. This is hard work. You don't have to work nothing harder than looking at this. So you can relax and have a good time looking at something that's horrible. So how do you relax with this basic anxiety? Yeah. It's not easy, is it? But it's not an oxymoron to be relaxed in a painful situation. So you could be in a difficult situation and relax. It is possible. Again, the usual pattern is suffering. I'm going to do something about it. That's the usual thing. Suffering. Suffering. It's not something bad about it. I'm going to do something about it. More suffering. That's the cycle. So that's what you're watching. You're watching the thing of anxiety.

[85:57]

I'm going to do something about it. Anxiety. I'm going to do something about it. Anxiety. More anxiety. I'll do something about it. More anxiety. That's the cycle. There's some way to be present there which isn't like getting a kick out of this and isn't getting depressed about this. It's just present. That's what we have to find that kind of presence. That's what our city breakfast is about is to try to find that If we have anxiety, fine. If we don't have anxiety, we're in denial. Bring the anxiety out in front and then be present with it. How? Yeah, that's the question. Moment by moment. How can you be in a relaxed way? Relaxed, but not slumped. You know? Relaxed, but unlucky. Like, ooh, but relaxed. Relaxed, but ooh. An erect swoon.

[86:58]

So relaxed, but completely upright. So relaxed. Almost completely falling over, but also really not falling over. That balanced square of his palm. then the animal will present itself, the urine will present itself. To continue that kind of process is not easy to find, but that's our, we need to do that. The inside. Yeah, right. Just keep it. The anxiety is the anxiety. That's it. but not even say nothing at all, just anxiety, then cry.

[88:17]

That's what it's called, disciplining your response to your experience. Just let the experience be the experience. Okay? Next. The relaxing, intention to relax. A lot of times the dependent core rising and relaxing is that you Like, let's say you have a body tension, right? So, like, you're, like, completely tuned in.

[89:25]

You feel it just like it is. You're not happy about the tension. You know, you're not indulging in the tension, like sticking your nose in it. You're not shrieking back from it. Tension, tension. You just bring yourself right in there. You're just present with it, but not indulging in it. You're there. You're not shrinking back or leaning into it. You tune right into it. And then you're relaxed in the middle of the tension. Now, the tension does not drop away at the same time that you're relaxed in the middle of the tension. That doesn't work. So, the goal of the intention or the impulse to, the impulse of Chaitanya is going to, and the anxiety or tension is there, is to focus on that and not, and then relaxation either arises or demonstrates.

[90:34]

So that's something to worry about in general. I'm wondering, why don't you say that again? Maybe the second time you say it, maybe I'll be able to understand it again. Say it one more time. We'll talk about that Chaitanya stuff. Talk about Chaitanya. In other words, he's talking now about physical impulse, okay? Tell me about how you work with that impulse to find relaxation with that impulse. You're not trying to get relaxed necessarily. You're not saying, okay, there's an impulse, I'm going to try to relax. Relax is an involuntary thing. I tell somebody, stand up and relax. Stand up is voluntary. Relax is involuntary. But still, it's good for people, instructions to do something involuntary. Somebody knows how to do something involuntary.

[91:35]

And the one who knows how to do something involuntarily. Got it? Involuntary means not volitional. Involuntary means not thinking. Relaxation is not an impulse. But now let's say we've got an impulse, right? We've got a person standing up or taking a walk. There's an impulse in the middle of a voluntary deal. field of volition, a field of intention. Relaxation will not be another intention on top of that. Now, there can be the intention to relax, but that doesn't make relaxation. That makes more karma, right? Now, tell me about it. You've got the intention. You've got intention and tension. Okay? Now, how are you going to relax? To be honest, to wholeheartedly intend whatever you intend to do.

[92:42]

Yeah, that's it. That's it. Wholeheartedly, when you're intending, to have wholehearted intention. In other words, just the tension be the tension. Good relaxation right there. We're alert there. So you're relaxed. The basic karma is happening. You're relaxed means you're there, not wishing it would go on, not wishing it would end. You're just there. You're just present with that karma. And if it's present with karma, there's presence with ignorance. You're relaxed and alert in the middle of karma.

[93:44]

You're relaxed and alert in the midst of ignorance. You're relaxed and alert in the middle of the results of karma. The results of karma are, for example, consciousness, sensation, feeling, a contact, feeling, craving, clinging, self-satisfaction, Not easy to be that balanced. There it is. Relaxation and alertness. It seems to me that if you are fully... That sense of relaxation is actually being dis-identified. Yeah, well, not exactly dis-identified. But I was saying yesterday, you can live in the middle of suffering, and you said that you identify with the suffering.

[94:53]

No, no, I take that back. If you're in the middle of suffering, when you're in the middle of suffering, and the suffering is just the suffering, then you don't identify with the suffering. When the suffering is just the suffering, when the hurt is just the hurt, then you don't identify the pain or the pleasure or the hurt or the sin. And here and over there suffering are here and over there clinging. It's just clinging. It's just suffering. It's just ignorance. It's just the process that drives rebirth. That's all. And then you're all set. Coming together of certain conditions and then you'll be at the end of suffering. But really, when you actually realize that, that is the end of suffering.

[95:56]

When you're in the middle of suffering, that is the end of suffering. Presence in the middle of suffering. The presence is the end of suffering. You are in suffering. You are Well, you don't have to be at Leicester. Mourning is taking care of whatever part of you is still holding on to what's gone.

[97:18]

So there is some clinging to the fat which is no longer there. So then there's sadness. That's the way it is. That's the pinnacle arising of sadness. And that feeling of sadness will cure you of that particular attachment. Yourself is sad. And then even before sadness has done its job, which it may still have to do, because it's a kind of chemical thing, addressing your past cleaning to your past, or your present cleaning to your past, or whatever. Presence with that, you're free right away. It's sad. Let sadness be sadness. You're free right away, even though sadness may have to go on for a while, because there's some cleaning that has to be addressed. You're feeling the sadness-based therapy. But you don't have to wait for the sadness to be over to be free. What you're grieving to do, that's okay.

[98:22]

It's like you have a lot of blood to circulate. A lot of the body's not free. It's a natural process to eat. You don't have to wait until it's done to be free. Be quiet. Why is government there? I'm like, so, you know, the people, we don't know. I want to be a part of a group as well. And, man, if you don't know the way to do that, in order to act, like, how much do people figure out the message that the church in Sandville, the way that What I've done is I leave here at about 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. And I get there at about 10 a.m. or [...] 10 a.m. And I wasn't paying attention to the clock.

[99:31]

And all of a sudden, I looked out, and it was quarter to seven. And I had 15 minutes to do something, but instead of that, it just takes me about 40 minutes. But I thought, yeah, I'll see how I'm working. And I realized immediately that I could get rid of the idea that I had done something wrong. Something wrong. There wasn't anything wrong. It's just that I didn't want to do something different. I wanted to do something different. And I started putting everything together. Gathering, giving them a call. But as I did this, I tried to just stay present with them. With just what was going on. Picking up the cushion and getting them a call. And not to be hard on myself, but I had some idea. I was looking at something like an outlet. And then I would think, other Christian people that I knew of. It would be some kind of angst, it would be some kind of criticism. And the moment I was told it was in the Christian world, it would be like, you know, then we would all sort of fade into the dark.

[100:37]

And it was a very interesting experience to have a couple days, and then to go off and do something when I clearly had an idea about it and it didn't fit. And somehow, maybe because of this workshop, I was able to move it between the things I thought it should be, and what it was supposed to be, and actually do it. And the real witness in my experience, when I look where I thought it should be, and what it actually was. It was a very good experience. So there's this impulse to talk about rebirth.

[103:14]

It's just kind of like rebirth cannula. They're just thinking about rebirth and have now become verbal about it. that this thing is going on. And I'm wondering, just wondering about where to pick up this beast first. To leave this topic. We've mentioned around what we were talking about, based on concrete, we said things, said it,

[104:17]

I couldn't hear you. The last few words you said I couldn't hear. So, some, so light, [...] imagination of an entity. Wow. Right? Life can imagine something that isn't. Imagining something that isn't is not .

[105:45]

Imagining something that really doesn't exist is not ignorance. It's just imagination. And it's a wonderful thing that life is wonderful, I say. And I say imagination is wonderful, too. Somebody says life is wonderful, and somebody says imagination is wonderful. And also somebody else says, we don't need you to say it's wonderful. Life is beautiful, imagination is beautiful. That's not ignorance. Ignorance is thinking that imagination is what's happening. Now, it's happening that there's imagination, but what's being imagined is not real. Thinking that what's imagined is real, that's ignorance. That's not seeing the whole picture. So if you take imagination of entities

[106:50]

which is a perfectly reasonable thing to imagine, you can also imagine a nonentity. Imagining a nonentity is also not ignorance. It's just an imagination. But to think that it's real, that a nonentity is actually what's happening, overlooking the fact that there's also the imagination of the thing going on, too, and all that, that's ignorance. So if you take the ignorance, sort of together with the imagination of entity, believe that the entity is And then imagine that the entity has the ability to perform acts. Then you have ignorance and karma. And this will lead to suffering right away. But it turns out that karma also creates a world, a world of Because of this entity which does things, and then by the entity doing things, then we have consciousness, then we have name and forms, mind and objects, we have sensation, we have feeling, we have contact among the sense fields, we have feeling, and we have feeling then, because there is pain,

[108:19]

painful feelings, particularly. Pleasurable feelings, particularly. Because there's ignorance. Because there's ignorance. When pain comes up, pleasure is felt, and pain is felt because there's ignorance. That's great. Because there's ignorance, there's karma. Because there's ignorance and karma, there's craving and grasping. Because there's craving and grasping, and because there's karma, which has created this world, we grasp the things. Because we grasp the things, particularly we grasp the bodies, we grasp our home, then there is becoming. We want to, like, get things to cooperate with this craving and the grasping.

[109:27]

And then there's birth. And because there's clinging, grasping, and craving, and impermanence, it's aging. Birth is based on ignorance. Death, because birth is based on ignorance, craving, karma. grasping this life, this life, then dies. Life doesn't actually die. Born of karma dies. Life doesn't die. Life is eternal. Not the same life. Life is infinite. Life is infinite. Living beings are infinite, right? But when Being, when living beings in the infinite field of living beings can have ignorance, karma, craving, and drastic, and becoming, then you have birth and death.

[110:34]

But it isn't that you have birth and death and no more birth and death. You have birth and death. And because of ignorance, we have karma, blah, blah, blah, craving, meaning, coming, birth, death. This whole system is not what actually is happening in life. It's a subset. It's a little world. It's making life into a little box, right? It's ignoring all of life and making up this little painful story in the middle of a field of light. But it's important to recover this story. And life has the ability to imagine what isn't. Light has to ignore itself. Therefore, it makes up this little world of birth and death.

[111:46]

The world of rebirth is not reality. It is a deluded world in the middle of life. But if we don't enter that world and study it, people will afflict us. We living beings will be happier and life will be more wonderful if we can face this terrible risk or alleviate this terrible little world in the life. Then we become free of this world, and then we can face the life, this infinite life. Trouble looking at it because it's so infinite and so glorious. We just, you know, life says, can't we do something else? Sure you can. Go right ahead. Life says, go right ahead. Imagine something. Imagine something that isn't. Go ahead. You can do it. You can even imagine what isn't happening. So we do. We look away from what's happening. Look away from what's happening.

[112:47]

Now close our eyes to what's happening, and then imagine a little tiny world where I can do something. Okay, then we're done. We have to get into that world, which we're already in, which we're already doing, but to face it more skillfully. How do you do? If you face it skillfully, we can come liberated from this tight little loop called birth and death. But after, you know, then some people say, well, is this really happening? It's not really happening, but we have to, in some sense, we have to take it as though it were really happening. Because if we don't, then we do this thing of kind of leaning back. But also if you lean into it, it's real, that's overdoing it. You already think it's real. You don't have to tell yourself that. You already think you were born.

[113:54]

When you were born, you didn't think that, by the way. But now you do. And you were born because you used to think you were born. But there's phases of that process where we don't think that. We're not constantly thinking we're born, but we have to do it all the time in order to keep it going. So because we think this entity was born, that entity will die. But since this whole process is not driven by entity, because if it was entity, and the entity was born and the entity died, then you would say, well, the entity dispersed. They don't have entity anymore. But that's not what made the entity happen in the first place. What made the entity happen in the first place was not entities, but ignorance in the middle of life. Life is still going on. So life will again imagine something that isn't. So life will again imagine

[114:59]

blah, blah, blah, and there'll be more birth. Like Shakespeare says, what did he say? To die for a chance to sleep. Huh? To dream. Ah, there's the word. For a chance to dream. There will be a dream in that sleep. And that dream will cause another birth. But it won't be, it isn't a real birth, it's a birth in a little world, a little imagined world that's not happening in the middle of the totality of life. So we have to become free of that little dream, and when we become free of that little dream, we have to admit that we think the dream's real, and we feel the pain, the stickiness of the reality of that, we're gonna feel it, we're gonna study it, and it will be released. He's done a job in terms of release of our self.

[116:04]

Then, we want to be a Buddha, we have to then couple that release with great compassion, accompanying everybody else with approach, and make Buddhas. And actually, because life is all interconnected, this section of it, this set of sense organs is liberated locally. It still feels passive because it's connected to the Buddha. Now it feels hassle because now it doesn't feel separate anymore. It senses that other areas, other senses and fields have not yet understood this. And it hurts. You're free, but it still hurts. And there's some wonderful thing you want to work to liberate it all over the place because it turns out it's tremendous fun to watch other people learn how to do it. So the bodhisattvas are happy to dive back into the world they just got free from and watch other people learn how to ride the vehicle. And the bodhisattva does not think that these people are better after they learn than before.

[117:09]

Bodhisattva thinks that they're equally wonderful before and after learning to be free. But still, bodhisattva wants to learning process. But that's why the voice-over will be willing to go back into the same world again and again and go over this learning process again and again because it's so much fun to be with people when they learn. And then the literate being, the person who understands that it's an illusion, becomes more and more Buddha-like. rather than just a liberated being. Buddhas aren't just liberated beings. The liberated beings come to this realm of the world as a Buddha. They used to be in the realm of the Buddha. They got out. They come back.

[118:12]

Until they finish the course, because apparently they check out, too. People will carry on the work. Oh, there's the bird. Got it? You can warn it. I know there's more. For some reason, there's more. Forever. Almost without blood. That's Grace and Martha and Mifflin. The hand there. Grace, Martha, Mifflin. I'll wait. Life makes possible birth and death. But birth and death is not the fatality of life. Rebirth and life are dependent.

[119:28]

Life allows us rebirth. Yeah. Life allows ignorance. Pardon? Yeah. In some way, it has nothing to do with human being growth. Human beings are what are born and die. And life allows this to happen. And I can say, is this a good or bad? You can say whatever you want. I could say it's good because what it does, by life allowing this birth and death thing to happen, life requires Buddhas. birth and death thing, you don't really need Buddhists. So it's kind of nice because now we have life produced itself in this vastness, but it also has produced all kinds of uniqueness all over the place.

[120:36]

You know, some people think that when they imagine the universe, somehow, when a living creature imagines the universe, if it's a human, And they want to know if there's light somewhere. One of the things you would expect about light, if there's light somewhere, is you would expect some difference. Some area of the universe, if you want to know if there's light there, you would expect difference. There would be a sign of life. But part of what light does is it makes difference. It's one thing that makes difference. And non-life doesn't act like that. So life allows difference, and difference means that things are not the same, that they're unique. They're not only different from the other. It's not like this is different from that, and that's the same as everything else.

[121:39]

It's different from everything else, too. Everything gets to be different. Everything gets to be unique. But the uniqueness and the difference is totally dependent on all the other uniquenesses and differences. You can't have any uniqueness without it being different from everything else. So every identity depends on the entire universe. So one thing in the universe that turned out not to be different from that was this identity. Among all the different differences that were created by light, light also made some creatures, some uniqueness, some identity that could imagine that they're independent. So it gave imaginative ability to some forms of identity, to some uniquenesses. So they could imagine the things that aren't true. So light made that possible. So light made this little world possible. So light made Buddha possible. You do not need Buddhas before, you do not need the type of Buddhas that we have among us until you have our problems.

[122:48]

All of our problems have allowed all this kind of wonderful medicine to happen. Without these illnesses, we wouldn't be able to have the wonderful medicine. And you know, life could still be spectacular without all these problems and without all these medicines. It would still be. inconceivably wonderful. And who am I to say what's inconceivable? But anyway, I could somehow, speaking for life, I say that. Life has allowed me to... But I also utter that life has not just made spectacular, wonderful, glorious things, it's also made afflictions, which are also spectacular, but they're because we look away, the afflictions are because we look away from the wonder of life. So I think it's a pretty good deal, actually. I'm extremely positive view on both things. But still, it's hard for me to face the affliction.

[123:56]

But I think, as you can see, to me, it makes sense logically and experientially and also in terms of the teaching that that's our job and that that's the path to freedom. If you want to look more. It's not just our stuff in the call. It's also. The interest in things. And. So it's not on the software call. which of course must be there, but puts emphasis on the Buddha's desire to put me inside a freedom, puts emphasis on Buddha's desire to have beings understand. In the Lotus Sutra, it says the thing that makes Buddhists appear in the world is their wish that people were open to understanding

[125:13]

open to and to see a demonstration of and understand and realize Buddha's knowledge. That's what I decided to do, make Buddha manifest. But of course, I wouldn't be wanting to manifest except if there's some beings that didn't understand it, and they were suffering because of it. Now, what if people did not understand, would Buddha still want to come and teach them? Maybe. Turns out that though they're not understanding the way Buddhas understand, we are understanding. So it's kind of both. We not only get freedom from suffering, but we also get to understand what Buddhas understand. So it's like a double thing. Some Zen people say it's just that Buddhas come just to release beings from their attachments. Kind of the same thing. I think Mifflin was next and he lived there.

[126:17]

I just wanted to clarify a little bit of a question. I mean, it's probably true, you know, that it's political. It looks like it's probably been good. You know what I'm saying? So that would be a self, the entity, and then the impulse would take them out, the intention, the thinking. It would be nice to loosen the grip. It would be nice to loosen the grip. The problem would be nice. It doesn't get bad. But that impulse, self, is not loosening the grip. That's just another impulse. That's another karma. That's self-doing karma. Thinking would be kind of a nice karma. But still, self-karma, still going on. We've still got the world going here. Still holding the string.

[127:19]

Self-good karma, self-good karma. Like that guy, you know. Self-good karma, he thought this was a really nice idea. I'll do this. It's pretty good. Pretty good trick. That's fine. The problem was he let go of the string. He should have just sat there and calculated that and said, oh, I've got this good idea of losing the string, but... Until it went. You don't want to like, because when you let go of the string, you think, okay, no more karma to study. No more, you know, no more tricks up my sleeve. I've accomplished the way. It's self-karmic, [...] entity karma, entity karma, entity, entity action, entity action, entity action suffering, entity action suffering. Stay there. Only because that's what's happening. If it's not happening, don't stay there. But it is. until you're free. If you're free, and you're free, and it's not happening, then come and tell somebody about it. Keep it to yourself. You should have a designated professor.

[128:22]

Yes? For us, for us, In this room, there's a lot of intentionality that's coming up with Laika. Laika has given rise to intentionality all over the room. And also, it's given rise to... There can be intentionality without the entity thing. But Laika has allowed the imagination of an entity. Laika has also given rise to beings which have intentionality. Put the two together, you've got karma. Life has consciousness, you could say that.

[129:24]

I mean, life has a lot of consciousness, so life has consciousness. Yes, life as consciousness. Life as consciousness. But the intentionality of the world of life is not necessarily everywhere connected with the imagination of entity. The kind of karma which is devolutionary. So when there's intentionality throughout life, there's some areas of life, life is willing also to be located. I'm not talking about life. Life is willing to be located, and also life gives rise to something which isn't located in the consciousness. So life is both located and not located. That's what's expected. It's willing to be located, like on a planet, or here, right?

[130:26]

Mostly here. Here's the main point. Life is willing to be located here, and... Would you care to say something about where it's located? Would you care to say something about where life is located? Huh? No, thank you. Would you care to say something about where life is located? Would you care to say something about where life is located? I want to thank you. I say no thank you to you for saying your life is located here. I need that. What I need from you. Here. Yeah, here is what I need from you. That's what you can think about. But everywhere I go, if I ask, wherever I go, if I just say where is life located, life can say back to me here. Life can respond to me from where it is. Life is willing to be located. Life is not located over there for you. It's not located everywhere for you.

[131:28]

Not really. That's the thing about life. It's not everywhere. It's located. But it's also not located, because consciousness is not located. So life is both located, and it's located for each of us here, It's not generally here. And also, it gives rise to consciousness, which is not local. That's the thing about life. Then also, this conscious life can have intention. And everywhere I go, I might check, is life here? Yes. What can you say about it? It's here. And I might be able to get some attention back from a good share of that life. But even a smaller section of life, a more located section of life, there's not only intention or thinking, but imagination of an entity. That's a more specialized section. Now, that part is spreading all over the world.

[132:28]

Because it's so fantastic, It's so troublesome and powerful. We're spreading all over the globe, and we're kind of like, we've got to be very careful not to dominate our friends who don't. So Buddhism is about particularly focusing on the part of life, the unique part of life that is life, that has intentionality and imagination authentically and belief in the concreteness on top of that. of the entity and karma and creates the life of rebirth and sucks everything else into it because we're connected to it all because it gave health to us. And we're pulsating with the part that can't do it and is pulsating with us because it never was suffered to us in the first place. So we can suck people into our and we can spew them and ourselves out of it because all is connected just taking different places in the process. Okay. Do you have your question already in here?

[133:33]

Is that it? Yeah. Yeah. I think what I was asking was... Updates in bonus time. Yeah. So, like, I mean, So the experience of enlightenment, this time, there is an existential notion of this life that would cause someone to talk about it and put you on, that somebody would believe in. Aside from thinking about the experience of enlightenment and experience, enlightenment is when the experience becomes illuminated. I think we were talking about it last night. It's not like there's a certain kind of experience as enlightenment, but any experience can be illuminated. And when that experience is illuminated, then words can come out of that space about this whole process of bondage and love.

[134:40]

Someone might believe that, somehow get a feeling for that, resonate with this, but these words might guide them to meditate on what was liberating for this source of vocalization. So in fact, people looked at Buddha, and they listened to him, and when they listened to him, the process of listening to him started to change their thinking, and their thinking changed. They started studying their thinking, and they started reading other things that were from their thinking, from their karma, because he said, look at your karma. The idea was, look at your karma. They looked at their karma, and they became free of their karma. And for some reason of it, he encouraged them to do that. It made sense that they could take the trial. But basically he said, hey, look, just try it. It'll work. And I think one of the nice things about Buddha's story, anyway, is that the first person he told about it, the guy said, well, maybe later.

[135:47]

Nice to talk to you. See you later, Gautama. The first person he offered the diamond to, the person said, The next people he talked to said, okay, he said, well, just try it. They tried it and it worked. So the question is, is it convincing enough to try the practice? You don't believe it, just go ahead and believe it. You have to try practice based on that. And he had a reputation among some people of never lying. I mean, he talked about various things, and they found that he wasn't a liar. So when he said, I found this way, and it might work if you do it properly, they gave it a try and did. So they said, believe it just on the basis that I said it, but listen to it and check it out. He didn't say, believe it and don't check it out.

[136:48]

He didn't say, don't believe it if you don't check it out. He said, don't believe it just because I said it, but check it out. And then you might believe in yourself that it's true, or you might not. But anyway, check it out. He did say check it out. He didn't say don't believe it just because I said it. Believe it because you checked it out and found it to be true. I checked it out. I found it to be true. Now you do. He did ask him to do that. So this rebirth thing, he didn't say believe rebirth. Look at it. Look at this issue. So don't believe rebirth. Right here is, I don't, isn't so much that I believe rebirth, so I'm going to study it. Study time. You want to answer the other question? Let me pause, stop. We want to postpone it to a second. Okay, so we have, set her hand. Grace, Linda. No, no more Grace. Huh? So, Linda, Christine, and Stan, anybody else?

[137:53]

Great. Save your questions. Nick. Well, Jim, we did the show in Hawaii. Isn't that phenomenal? It's an energy field for energy. Yeah. I think they got... That is Tom Calamon with Being Nestle.

[138:23]

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