On the good occasion, when we have had the chance to make the one of Okesa, it is called Rakusen, in the guidance of Ishida Roshi, I'm thinking that I would like to describe the On the Okesa in Buddhism. In a sense, for you, it seems that it has

[01:04]

nothing to do with your daily life, but in order to understand Buddhism, I think the understanding of the Buddhist law is to provide you with understanding much better what Buddhism is. Today, I would like to describe just the outline of what the Okesa is. According to the verse of

[02:05]

the verse of Okesa, which you have chanted in the morning after Zazen. Every morning, after Zazen, you chant the Dai Zai Etappuku. Dogen Zenji describes what the Okesa is in the Shobo Genzo, particularly in the chapter which is titled Kesa Kudoku no Maki, Volume of the Merit of Kesa. Dogen Zenji quoted several sutras, which is called

[03:17]

Daijo, Honjo, or Shinchi Kanjo, and this is a very long name of sutra. In order to explain how valuable the Okesa is, this sutra has the first two words. The first two words is Daijo. Daijo means Mahayana. Mahayana. I think as you know so well, Mahayana in Sanskrit means big vehicle. Dai means, Maha means big.

[04:25]

Yana means vehicle, sort of vehicle. I think there are many kinds of vehicles, small and big. In order to understand Buddhism, at any cost we have to see it. In terms of big vehicles, not small vehicles, I think in this world, in order to sell the book to buy an author,

[05:30]

you have to write the book, not so difficult book. You have to write the book which is easy to understand the readers. If you write such a book, the book is sold by people and is very popular for the human being. But Mahayana, the big vehicle means, doesn't mean that you write the book which is easy to understand.

[06:36]

This is big vehicle. Because big vehicle is always directed to the key point, which is based on the essence of fundamental way of human being. So this fundamental way of human being is very huge world. So in a sense, it's pretty difficult to understand. So in Japan, even though you write a great book, it's pretty difficult to sell it. Because Buddhism is not so easy to understand. As the name describes, big vehicle, like a big vehicle.

[07:39]

I think if a bottle is filled with, not filled, filled half with water and shake it, shake it, I think it makes noise. Like this. This noise might cause to attract the people to be interested in what it is. But if you fill the water completely full, if a bottle is completely filled with water and shake it, there is no noise.

[08:45]

Just settle itself on the self without making noise. We are not interested in such a bottle which is making noise, which is making no noise. Always settle down, settling down. Within Buddha's way, no reaction. Even though you twist it, you give a blow, no reaction, it has no reaction. We don't like to be interested in such a bottle. So you live it without paying attention to it. I think the essence of life is something like that.

[09:56]

It's a huge world. In order to understand the Buddhist law, we have to see again and again in terms of big vehicles like this. As I mentioned, when you chant the verse of Kesa every morning, we have to say our first verse, Dai Zai Geta Puku, Dai Zai Geta Puku. Dai Zai Geta Puku literally means the dress of emancipation.

[11:03]

Kesa is anyway the dress of emancipation. To emancipate from suffering, from the repetition of samsara. This is Kesa. But emancipation, if you say you have to emancipate, you have to experience emancipation through the practice of Zazen, if Buddhism says. You have to, you try to seek for the goal which is called emancipation, in other words, enlightenment. Through Zazen, day in and day out. If you think of emancipation like that, emancipation is something which turns someone into another.

[12:17]

Emancipation is not something like that. Emancipation doesn't mean that an ugly girl turns into a beautiful one. It's not emancipation, it's not emancipation. Even though you practice Zazen very hard, I think you will find that there is nothing to turn yourself into another. So that's why if you have a dog sign, you always make a complaint, why is it that I have to practice Zazen? The emancipation is not something like that. So the emancipation is that you are completely and fully enveloped by the big vehicles, like Kesa.

[13:42]

Kesa doesn't enable man to escape from one to another. What Kesa is called, the dress of emancipation, means that you are completely enveloped by Kesa. And have experience and settle yourself on yourself as you are. In the name of the absolute place where you are completely enveloped by Kesa. So, whoever you are, it doesn't make any difference whoever you are.

[14:52]

The moment you are aware of Kesa, you are a person who settles on the self as you are. In the domain of where you are completely enveloped by Kesa, the Buddha's word, this is Kesa. This is the meaning of the emancipation. So Dogen then says in the Shobo Genzo, you should practice the virtue achieved. In other words, you should practice the Buddha's achievement. Buddha's achievement.

[15:57]

Not only under one Buddha, two Buddhas, but also under a countless number of Buddhas like the son of Ganges river. Even the self should be taken good care of. And you should be delighted in to come to yourself to be alive. Yourself fortune, fortune to be alive.

[17:03]

You know, under one Buddha, the In-Dham, or in the Diamond Sutra it says you should practice the achievement of all Buddhas. In the guidance of one, two, three, four, five Buddhas. Dogen then recorded this sentence, the expression. Dogen says you should practice the achievement of all Buddhas, under one Buddha and two Buddhas. Not only under one Buddha and two Buddhas,

[18:11]

but also under a countless number of Buddhas like the son of Ganges river. Even the self should be taken good care of. This self is something which the person possesses based on the selfishness. The impulse of the selfishness. Dogen then says even this self should be taken care of. And you should be delighted in the encountering yourself fortune to be alive. To be alive.

[19:12]

I think this is very important. Wherever you are, it makes no difference, wherever you are. The first important thing is, before you think wherever you are, you should settle yourself on the self as you are, in the domain where you are completely and fully enveloped by Buddha's world. In that time, the verse of Kesai says, Fukuden means, what would you say, the great field. Fuku means happiness. Den means the field, rice field.

[20:20]

Each person, the human being, each person possesses Buddha nature in underlying essence anyway. In other words, you have a very great field, rice field, which is called no form. But if you don't fertilize it and cultivate it, it's pretty difficult to find good crops. Crops. Crops. You know, when I, 1945 to 46,

[21:29]

I used to be one of the farmers in Japan. I made rice. I cultivated rice field. But at that time, I didn't have any idea how to cultivate the field. So I just imitated. I just imitated people who were experts, who were called experts anyway. Day in and day out, cultivate the soil field, and sow the rice without fertilize, without fertilize. You know, at that time, I couldn't find not so good, not so good effect.

[22:30]

Yeah. So, in order to get a good, a great crop, even though you have a very fertilized field, you have to take care of it. You have to fertilize it and cultivate it. Day in and day out. Then at that time, you will find good crops. Good crop of rice, of corn, anyway, whatever kind of vegetables. This is called, this is called Fukudenge. Fukudenge, the happiness. The fuku means the happiness.

[23:32]

This is called good field. This is called good rice field. Wherever you are, so from this point, wherever you are, you have to cultivate, fertilize you, yourself, and cultivate it. By willing, by settling yourself on the self as you are, and the domain where you are completely enveloped by Buddha's world, willing love. This is called, this is called Fukudenge. Fukudenge, the dress of a good field with happiness. So, this is Getatsu, this is emancipation.

[24:39]

This is emancipation. Before you are, you think, you criticize yourself, wherever you are. You should settle yourself on the self as you are. The domain of Buddha's world, where you are completely enveloped by it. So from this point, I would like to call the Kesa is the Zen self. The famous Zen master named Sawaki Roshi was asked by someone, the, what is the Kesa? What is the Kesa? The, the, who, who was enthusiastic with the, one of the Buddhist schools

[25:41]

named Jodo Shinshu, Pure Land School. They are very interested, their practice is to chant the, to repeat the name of Nami Amida Butsu. Day in and day out, they always chant the name of Buddha, Nama Amida Butsu, Nama Amida Butsu, like this. This is the moment when you chant, chant the name of Buddha, you are in the salvation. You are just in salvation. Before you are aware of yourself, whether you are saved or not. And Sawaki Roshi said, Sawaki Roshi said, Kesa is like Nembutsu. Nembutsu means the chant, the practice of repeating the name of Amitabha Buddha.

[26:45]

I think this is right. He's sure he's right. So Kesa is completely the Zen self. You always listen to the Roshi's lecture. Please just sit, just sit. In a sense it's funny and ridiculous. If you see it, if you see it in terms of small vehicle, a small vehicle is always provided, to provide you with something good. Understand much better something, understand something good, something good to you.

[27:51]

But when you, when you are on the big vehicles, you don't know exactly. The moment when you are on big vehicle, not only you but also everybody tried to from this short time, short to the other short. Before you are aware of whether you are, you will be surely, you will surely be, surely get to the destination or not. When you ride, when you ride on a small vehicle, I think it carried you, only you, not the other person. It carries you to from this short and to the other short.

[29:04]

Then you think, oh how wonderful it is. The moment when the big vehicle, the moment when you realize that the big vehicle carry not only you, but also everybody to the other short. You don't understand quickly, immediately. What's the matter? So the Master says you should just sit. Just sit will surely save all sentient beings. What does it mean? You don't understand. Because we are always on the small vehicle. So as long as the Buddhist law is called the grace of emancipation,

[30:09]

you have to fraternize yourself and cultivate yourself. Settling down on yourself in the manual Buddhist world. This is of good ending. And the third verse says, This is the teaching of Buddha. This is the principle, the teaching of Buddha. This is the person who are covered with the teaching of Buddha.

[31:16]

This is hypnotic. The two-wheeled rope. To keep the rope is to keep warm-heartedly from the bottom of your mind, the Buddhist teaching. Not only keeping the Buddhist teaching, but also as the fourth verse says, To save all sentient beings. When I became a priest,

[32:23]

I was given an okesa, which was sold in the Buddhist stores, Buddhist shops. Not like this. Not traditional, the okesa. For eight months, I wore such a rope. In a couple of months, after being in A.H. Monastery, I had a chance to see an outstanding Zen master named Hashimoto Oshi, who was the master of Yoshida Oshi. Then I was taught what the okesa is by this Oshi Zen master.

[33:35]

Then from that time, I had the experience, I was the first time to wear the traditional okesa. At that time I felt, the whole body and mind was completely covered with love, covered in the envelope by love. That feeling was very good for me. I thought how wonderful it was. So before I consider what it is, what the rope means,

[34:38]

I was very delighted, delighted in wearing this rope. Since then, I continued to keep this rope. I think this feeling is very important. My whole body, my whole body was enveloped by Buddhist rope. If you don't feel in that way, the okesa doesn't mean, the okesa doesn't make sense for you. The okesa is like a cloth, just a cloth. Yes. We have to understand our practice

[35:42]

in terms of being good. Like the understanding of okesa. Whatever you do, doing gassho, doing bow, doing chants sutra, doing walking on the zendo, inside of the zendo. That's all. As the Zen Master mentioned very often, you should settle on yourself as you are. Moment after moment, after moment. The other day someone asked me what think the unthinkable means.

[36:45]

Think the unthinkable doesn't mean to think something. No discrimination is made. The viewer and the viewed, the viewed. The unthinkable is that a thinking, thinking, thinkings, your thinkings, think, your thinking, as they are. This is the think, the unthinkable. There is no discrimination to make, to be made.

[37:52]

If it should be something, even the slightest idea, oh, I am thinking, that's good, smart, you know. It is not, it doesn't mean to think the unthinkable. To think the unthinkable is that the thinking, your thinking, think, think completely, absolutely, your thinking. It is called the samadhi of the thinking, samadhi of the thinking. At that time you don't know, nobody knows. Nobody knows who thinks what. If you think it, you can think it. Finally, namo buddho.

[38:56]

All right. Namo kyei-butsu is you. Namo is to throw, to throw away, to throw away. Kyei is to rely upon. Butsu means Buddha. You throw away yourself to the Buddha's world. With the assurance and relaxation of your existence, this is namo kyei-butsu. If you chant this verse in Sanskrit, buddhan saramangacchami,

[40:02]

translation in English is take refuge in the Buddha. You go, plunge into the Buddha's world with assurance and relaxation of your existence. This is namo kyei-butsu. In every stitch, each stitch, you chant, you chant namo kyei-butsu. That's why Dogen then says, you practice the merit, you practice the achievement of Buddhas, not only in the guidance of one Buddha and two Buddhas, but also in the guidance of the uncountless numbers of Buddhas like the sons of Ganga's river. So how many, I don't know, how many stitches there are. Each stitch embraces the Buddha's world,

[41:11]

saying namo kyei-butsu. It makes, it consists of, it consists of a number of countless numbers of Buddhas like the sons of Ganga's river. That's why Dogen then says, in the guidance of countless numbers of Buddhas like the sons of Ganga's river. And you practice, you practice the merit, the achievement of Buddhas. This is one. So, this is just an outline, explanation of the law according to the verse of the Kesa

[42:14]

which we have chanted every morning. So when you chant this sutra verse, from the bottom of your mind, you chant this verse so as to, so as to lead your voice so as to reach up to the Buddha's shore. You should, this is what you want to... Okay? Do you have a question? Next, from next,

[43:27]

from next my lecture I explain, I will explain the sutra which is called the Daijo Kunjo Shinji Kunjo Kunjo, that's a very big name, wrong name. Mukshobong It describes ten, the ten powers, not ten powers, ten merits, ten merits which Kesa itself possesses. It's very interesting. It would seem that

[44:31]

it has nothing, it has nothing to do with your daily life. But if you don't understand, if you shouldn't understand this merit, the Buddhist law, so you wouldn't understand your life. So, so, even though you don't understand what the Kesa is, you should make, you should make every possible effort to have a chance to listen to the explanation of what the Kesa is and the willings of Kesa. It's very simple. Thank you.

[46:17]

or back to the middle, and that's quite equally dangerous and equally valuable in the world. But before you introduce anything, which also applies to any kind of teaching, and in particular the teaching of Tibetan tradition is not well known in this country prior to anything in its holistic quality, and before you introduce anything at all, in this country as well as in other countries, the first step is not to have one such resource, which means that you have to be, develop that notion in a positive way, and you could inspire others by not being useless by yourself. I'd like to ask what it was that brought you to this country?

[47:32]

Well, it is a, in a sense, quite a long story, but it is also quite a long book. We might ask the same kind of question. What was it that brought you here? Yes, it was my idea of how to survive in the world today, and what I mean by my need to be here, particularly to be here. That is, I was sent to this country, to try to solve that problem, except being dependent on my wife, because we have to live here together, and I myself escaped from the threat of the Chinese Communist invasion, and in a sense I feel grateful, because in a sense I think of the Chinese as much more than what we have now.

[48:49]

Have you ever seen the contrast of two cultures, two different developments, which is very inspiring, very beautiful, and it still raises the question of making people, brought me to Britain, and then finally I got to Australia, and from there I met a whole number of American friends, and with their connections I came here. So it is very much a learning process. It is very interesting to see the communication that develops and leads you to a different channel in life. I never know what will happen tomorrow, or next. You speak of crowding, and you speak of space. Is space in a way of being centered?

[49:53]

Could you speak of how one goes from the state of being crowded to the state of being in space, and could you also speak of that last state? I think it is complementary, because being in a crowd also brings the state as well, which is my idea from New York. It is a question of not being afraid, or not feeling you are affected by the crowd. And in other words, it is a question of making a real understanding of the nature of the crowd, which is the complete stagnation.

[50:54]

And by going into the future, of understanding that there is a crowd in the public space, then from there, if you are not able to feel properly, the object of the crowd is the crowd of you, and if you work with the crowd, then the crowd has no other function at all. The crowd has become a space. You see the point? Because the crowd is me and the crowd, and you with me. If you are able to take part in the nature of the crowd, in other words, not trying to suppress it, not trying to seek another refuge, but just work with the crowd, then the object of the crowd is just trying to build a crowd of you, and then there is no you left to crowd anyone. So then it automatically creates space. It is very simple. I am not going to do it.

[52:03]

You can't explain it at all. It is about the idea of if you are afraid of drowning in the water, the only way to make you swim is just to push you into the distance. It is like, what you imagine you will swim there. Yes. Well, you can't really kind of blame your ego necessarily, for ego doesn't mean anything at all, you see. There is no kind of central identity in it at all.

[53:07]

What contains is these various waves of energies. That's all. There is no kind of storehouse at all. So ego is merely a name. So why do I have to work on these things, these manifestations of the crowd and everything, but one need not really have to try to deal with ego, overcome ego, as though it is kind of an evil thing that you have to deal with. It all seems to be a reality, that ego is not a sort of thing, or something, whatever you like to call it, that goes with that alone. And having worked with that alone, then you don't find there is another obstacle when you are dealing with ego, because there is ego. And this kind of pressure building into yourself is partly because one is being self-conscious

[54:08]

of trying to be better, trying to be good. That is always the problem. That's what's called golden chain. When you are trying to be better, you can be more aware of the problem. So when you are trying to find more, then you build more and more, and you become a vicious circle. So you never win the war, at all. So what one has to do is not... just watch yourself to drink good, but not trying to be good and insidious at all, but just to try to do the things, trying to go into the nature of the crowd, as you have explained already. Question from the audience Well, I think generally,

[55:10]

if you use the visualization, if you are sure to use it, in this country, you are a competent teacher. Because that tends to create the real meaning of meditation, which is in the imagination, or visualization of thought. Meditation should transcend any kind of thought patterns and images. But one do find that in the meditation practice, even if you don't visualize anything at all, the thought formation takes a lot of time and attention within the state of mind automatically. But adapting a similar visualization in the right mind level is quite universal. It's not necessarily the Eastern nature of meditation at all. I think this is a very common trait,

[56:16]

because the connected people want to make up, psychologically make up an individual, who is a very energetic person, and has a lot of energy, a lot of energy of working, and dealing with work, and being active. Then, in symbolism, it is connected with the color green, light. And somehow, the expression of these symbols automatically brings out these colors and symbols, as if something is not necessarily their own disease, but is something of a universal kind, and psychological makeup. I think it is quite possible to develop your own discovery of colors and visualizations of a great kind, which hadn't been discovered at the moment in the West.

[57:17]

But I don't think you actually change if you forget the fascination of the culture or the art. Then, it automatically becomes one universal thing. Like, if you appreciate ripples in a pond, you can appreciate this kind of beautiful thing, as if it was part of a good thing. Or you could regard it as if it was definitely a good situation. And that kind of thing, if you associate it with a particular picture or a particular culture, you could do that, but if you really look at it in a certain beauty and a certain sense, then it doesn't belong to a particular tradition at all. Most of the traditions that I'm familiar with, there's a lot of special teaching and development available for those students to become monks, or at least enter a religious life as a way of life.

[58:20]

And although some people are active in the world and make householders, there's no one in the tribe that can continue their own meditation and teaching. They don't develop a high state of mind, a high development. Is that necessarily true, or is there... Is it really necessary to become a monk to attain a very high degree of enlightenment or awareness? Well, the idea of a monk is that renouncing competition in life. It doesn't mean that you are taking a new competition to very much obtain more, taking more, obtaining more, obtaining more. It means that in this case, instead of the problem of just the mind involved in being in a particular situation like a monastery, and leading a particular life

[59:27]

which is simple, it doesn't involve any problems, anything at all. But the trouble is that there is a simplicity, a lack of simplicity becomes a luxury in some way. It's not a luxury in some sense. Like that, if you live in a house which is financially in good terms, and you want to go and live in a house in Japanese fashion, to play with it, to affect the other house people, they will educate you in a very simple way, but it is still a luxury when you live in a simplicity environment. Then there is also the problem that there is a misunderstanding in a way, I think. One doesn't even necessarily put it out

[60:28]

almost entirely. I mean, according to the Buddhist tradition, the tradition of the disciples, the pasca, leo, pasca, dosa, etc., because in some ways they have to cancel each other out, and in some ways they have to work, in some ways they have to do the dirty job. In any case, so you can't expect that all Buddhist countries will be entirely one and one, and live on all the streets, because there is no kind of legal policy in life involved. as far as the Buddhist point of view is concerned, the natural life is really about the simplicity, which could be achieved by maybe a household of the right people as well, being a girl, or becoming a Buddha, who wants to keep her handshake, and it's like what he does like Emperor Ashoka of India was a great king, and he wants to keep the right handshake

[61:28]

before his death. So it is possible, but the idea of renouncing world and living monastic life is simplistic, but that simplicity should not become scheduled, or should not become needing another nation in its life. I've mentioned that for the last maybe since twelve. I do think so, fundamentally, yoga of Hinduism speaks of starting with physical yoga, which is the Hatha yoga, and then speech yoga, which is the practice of mantras, and then finally, natural yoga, which is the Mahayana

[62:28]

state of meditation. But in the Buddhist tradition, firstly, beginning with the mind, and then with the speech yoga, and then the physical. It's just a different way of introducing. I don't think the goal will be different at all. When we come to that, this practice is entirely connected with it, dealing with the external form, of exterior practice, rather than going into the heart of it. And there is definitely differences. I think it could apply in this twentieth century as well, as well, because if one is fascinated by external forms, the external

[63:30]

characters of teachings, and the traditions, then one would sort of lose the point of why you aspire to search and seek higher. But according to the Hindus, they accepted Buddha as our subject, and they acknowledged Buddha as the enlightenment. And I think the final goal is entirely the same. It's a question of the external forms, and also in the Buddhism, that anyone who became Buddha's followers at the time of the Buddha, they automatically transcended the caste system in the social sense, as well as the Buddhism. It doesn't apply anymore in the religious sense, but it became purely social things. But I don't

[64:31]

think you could say that the final aim according to the different forms, but these external forms could be scapegoats, as well as sources of fascination, which could fly all ages, and all teachings of religion in the world. Yes? Well, this is a question of not sort of going into any kind of state, inward state. In other words, I was

[65:33]

trying to step out of the fascination that I had, and trying to share what I experienced with the inspirations of science and scenery and thought patterns of the world, which is also kind of an expression of bliss, of peace. But if one is deluded by going into the depth of it, going into the inward way, going into the sort of trance-like state, then it becomes more like a post-musical remedy. And that's what I And I

[66:37]

trying to get out of that state, and was trying to get out of the state of being. And I was trying to get state of being. And I was trying to get state of being. And

[67:45]

out of of out of of being. was trying to get out of the state of being. And I was trying to get out of the state of being. to get out of the of And was of being. And I was trying to get out of the state of being.

[68:45]

And was trying to get out of the state of And was trying to get out of the state of being. And I trying to get out of the state of being. I was trying to get out to get out of the

[70:02]

state of being. And I was trying to get out And I was trying to get out of the state of being. I was trying out of the state of being. And I

[71:11]

trying get of being. And I trying get out of the state of being. And was trying out of the state being. And I to of the state of being. And I was trying to get out of the

[72:11]

state of being. of the of I was trying to get out of the state of I was trying to get out of the state of being. And I was trying to

[73:15]

And I was trying state being. I was trying to get out of the of being. And I was trying out of the being. And I was trying to being. I

[74:15]

was trying out of the state of I was trying get out of being. And was trying to of the state of being. And I was trying out being. And was trying get out of the state of

[75:27]

being. was trying to get state of And I was trying out state being. And was trying to get out of the state of being. And I trying get out of the state of And I trying to get out of the

[76:31]

state of the state being. I was trying get out of the of I was trying of And was And I was to get out of the of being. And I was

[77:32]

out of the state being. And I was trying to out of the state of being. And I was trying get of the being. And out of the state of And I trying to get out of the state of

[78:35]

being. And I was trying to of the state of being. And I was trying to get out of the of being. And I was trying to get out of the of being. And I was trying of the state of being. And was trying get out of the state of being. And I was of the And I get out of the state of being. And I

[79:44]

was to get out of the And was trying to get state of being. And I was trying to get out of the state of And I was trying to get out of the state of to get of being. And I was

[80:48]

trying And I out of the state of being. I get out of the state of being. And I was trying to get out of the state of being. And I was to get out of the state of being. And I was get out state of being. And I was to get out of the state of And I

[81:59]

was out of the state being. I trying to of the state of And I was trying to get out of the state being. And I get out of the state of being. And I to get out of the state of And I was trying

[83:00]

to get out of the state And I of the of being. And I trying to get out of the And I was trying to get out of the state of being. And was trying to get out of the state of And I trying to get out of the state of being.

[84:07]

And was state of being. And I out of the state of being. And I was trying to get being. And I was trying to get out of the state of being. And I was trying get of the state of being. to out of the state of being. And I to get out of the state of being. And was to get of being.

[85:25]

And I was to get out of the I was trying out of the state of being. And I to get of being. I trying to get out of the state of being. And I to get out of the of being. And

[86:29]

I was trying to get out of the state of being. And I to get out of the state of And I of the And I trying to get out of the

[87:34]

state of being. And I I out of the being. I to get of the state of And I was trying to get out of the state of being. And I was trying get out of the state And he said, yeah, but I didn't want you to go through that.

[89:48]

He asked you to go through it. He doesn't care what it is. And he's not afraid of it. He's told you to go through it. So it's not a big deal to you. It's just, he's tired of it. He doesn't want you to go through it.

[90:49]

And he doesn't want you to go through it. And he doesn't want you to go through it. And he doesn't want you to go through it.

[92:06]

And he doesn't want you to go through it. And he doesn't want you to go through it. We are, we have to do that.

[93:45]

We have to go to the union to get votes. We have to do that. We have to get the vote. We have to get the vote. We have to get the vote. I would say, if you are going to vote, you have to get the same votes.

[94:08]

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