Yes? I heard you say letting things be as they are, and working with forms of our recesses to take care of the forms and ceremonies at this tradition. And I was wondering about how we think about letting things be as they are and working with them. Well, the example I used earlier was the example of sitting. So that's one of our forms, the sitting posture. And it's one of our ceremonies. And there's some recommendation to sit upright. You know, not lean forward or backwards or right or left.

[01:06]

to have the nose in line with the navel and the ears in line with the shoulders. Those are forms available to us. So when I'm sitting, I can let this posture be itself. And I can also let the effort to sit upright be the effort to sit upright. And I also recommend keeping the eyes open in the school. So right now my eyes are open and I can just let my eyes be open. If my eyes close, I can let my eyes be closed. If I wish to open them, I can let the wish to open them be itself. So if there was a wish to open the eyes and I really let that wish be just that wish, then that would be appropriate to the practice.

[02:26]

Then I wouldn't be with the wish or in the wish. So even the wish to sit upright is maybe a common mental formation that might come up with the form. So the wishes to do the form, the attempt to do the form, those also are offering themselves as opportunities to let them be. And again, if I can just let those opportunities be just those opportunities, I'm following the training of the Buddha with this particular form. And all the tactile things that come up with it, the visual things that come up with it, like I can actually look at my posture. I used to sit in front of a mirror and watch my posture. and also sometimes sat with the mirror to the side to look at my posture, and also sometimes had teachers watch me sit.

[03:34]

So I work with my posture to sit upright, which I think those are all opportunities to train in letting things be. So it isn't just a general... training to let things be themselves. It comes down to each finite thing. And we have agreed on certain forms in the school to work on these things together. So that if you're working on letting a form be or letting a ceremony be and you're having some, yeah, some issues with it, some difficulties, you can go talk to other people who are also working on the same thing. and can share experiences with difficulties and successes in letting things be. Okay?

[04:36]

Thank you. Yes? So part of the teaching or the training seems to be present with or intimate with this life. And this morning you used the phrase, to be in this life. You used it in the concept of to be in this life. it seemed slightly differently. And you used this phrase, neither here nor there, nor in between. And here, also seem to have a slightly different sense because it's in a contrast with there. Yeah, right. You could elaborate a little more in those uses of words.

[05:42]

Yeah, so I guess today I would say that being intimate is not being with and not being in. Being intimate is that the thing is just itself, whatever. You list possible experiences and letting each one be in itself, be itself, just itself. Letting it be itself, then you're not with it. You're not in it. So you're intimate brackets with it. But you could say somehow intimacy has been realized but you're not with or in and you're also not separate. You're also not. You're also not, not with or not in. So another way to say it is you don't identify with it or disidentify with it.

[06:46]

Those would be hallmarks or doesn't it be appropriate to be intimate? And as you said, it's not the here that's in contrast with there. Not that kind of here. To be intimate is not to have inherent in your intimacy the dichotomy itself. Can you say that again, please? To be intimate with something, or with one's life, or with someone else, is not to have the dichotomy already built into it, but here and there. That sort of falls away. Without being eliminated. And if there is any dichotomy, then in the dichotomy there will be just dichotomy.

[08:01]

And then you won't be with the dichotomy, or away from the dichotomy, or in it or out of it. Yes? Hi, Fred. Good morning. I thank you very much for your talking. You talk about something that I've been thinking very much lately, past my 70s, and I've been realizing that, you know, there are a limited amount of years ahead of me or maybe months or I don't know, but before I thought that I was never going to die. And now I'm thinking more about it. But at the same time, I think about that a day is infinite. Activities that I can do in a day could be infinite.

[09:04]

also in a year I can do so many things. And I was just wondering if I am seeing this Sunshine Buddha and Moon Buddha. Is that I'm realizing that I have a primitive life and an infinite life and I am guessing that when I think about death and the years that I have left, I immediately go into, well, but I have all these days or months or years. And I was wondering if that is a realization of Moon Buddha and Sunshine Buddha? I don't know if it's a realization, but... When I think of the limited life I have, then simultaneously I can also remember that I have an infinite life, simultaneous with the finite.

[10:15]

And so I hear that, I hear that teaching, that my life is both finite and infinite. It's not one or the other. And to realize that, that that's so, rather than just hear that teaching, I have the opportunity to fully live my finite life. Because again, we somehow, it's like we can magically be half-hearted. Of course, we can't be half-hearted, but we can say, I don't really want to be sick right now. And I wish I was someplace else. And in this way of thinking, I can actually kind of like talk myself into like not letting things be. Even though, of course, whether I let them be or not, they're still what they are.

[11:23]

So somehow I... I can like just not let my limited life, I can sort of like resist letting my limited life be itself. And if I do, then I hear this teaching that I have infinite life and finite life, but I don't really realize it. And you can tell by the way I act that I don't, because I'm I'm not practicing letting my finite life be just a finite life. I'm missing that opportunity. Of course I'm here, but I'm kind of like somehow imagining I'm sort of not here. Or I'm here, of course, but I'm like with being here, or something like that. You know, may I say I've done many things in my life.

[12:25]

I've climbed rocks and I've played tennis and I do this, dancing. Many things which now I cannot do because of problems of the knees or the hips and this and that. So I've started to realize all the things that I was able to do that I'm not able to do now. And that kind of pairs up with the realization of a finite life. And I think that I'm sort of canceling that, saying, well, I have all these other things that I can do. And I sort of find, you know, a peacefulness, I think, by knowing that I can do other things. But at the same time, the lists start getting chocker and chocker, you know, with the things you can do. And that creates suffering sometimes, but I go to the other side and say, well, I can still do that and hear music.

[13:35]

Yes. In just the most 10 years, how much in this country has this world changed? And I'm wondering, If there's anything in this tradition that teaches about new periods of change, because 10 years ago, not everybody was clutching their phones and looking at them. or most people were. And so many people in my general hatred have been put out of work by the ideation of it all.

[14:45]

It's a huge bridge. And I'm wondering if the tradition is not the first. There's been many. But this is very fast. The way that the traditional teachings talk about human experience thousands of years ago and a thousand years ago and hundreds of years ago, the mind that's being described sounds to me like the mind we have now. So the mind, a long time ago the mind was changing all the time, and the mind still seems to be changing all the time. Thousands of years ago people reported that the mind was, by the mind I mean the conscious, the self-conscious mind,

[15:57]

that the mind was quite turbulent and excited and difficult to be oriented clearly. So it sounds like the human mind for a long time has been a really difficult situation in which to be clear and present. And that still seems to be the case. So in that way although things are changing all the time, the basic human dilemma seems quite similar to the last few thousand years. The challenges we face today sound like the challenges that people were facing one thousand, two thousand, three thousand years ago. They didn't have cell phones, but they were just as agitated about bananas as we are about cell phones. People had a hard time remembering to let things be thousands of years ago, and people now also have a problem.

[17:07]

Some people say, do you think maybe people now have more of a problem than they used to have? I don't know. We have different challenges than we used to have. But I don't know if they're... But the mind that is challenged by current events has always had a hard time dealing with current events. And some people might say, well, I think now the current events are more difficult than they used to be. Maybe they are. But the mind used to have, the human mind used to have a lot of problems facing a simple life, a simpler life. And now people are having a lot of problems facing a really complex life. So the difficulty level of being present and awake and compassionate and wise, maybe the difficulty level has increased, but it used to be really hard too.

[18:14]

But some people say, it wasn't so hard 2,000 years ago. It was more difficult now. Okay, maybe so. So then we have to We have bigger challenges to face. I'm willing to accept that maybe our challenges are more difficult. But I don't know if that's so. But I do know that people are having a hard time. I can see that. I can feel that. I can read about it. People are having a really hard time meeting what's coming and letting things be. Meeting what's coming with compassion and patience and carefulness and generosity. a lot of people are coming to me and saying, I just can't be generous to so-and-so. I just can't be, I just can't wish so-and-so happiness. I just can't do it. But again, thousands of years ago people had trouble doing it too, so it seemed like under some circumstances, yes.

[19:22]

Somewhat a lot of questions. Last week, I attended a U.S. Science Conference down in Oakland, and the primary impetus was that, where's mind, where's consciousness? Consciousness is not from out of our mind, but the consciousness is really fundamental. And consciousness, all around us, it creates our mind. And there's a lot of scientific evidence for that, which I'll be bringing up in a few weeks. I think we've been so bad at nursing for so long. So I wonder if you should have any sort of sense of what does consciousness come up with when you know that it's not really happening. Well, I don't know if you're using the word consciousness in the same way that, for example, I would use the word consciousness.

[20:28]

So I've been using consciousness as a type of mind where there's a self. And then there's other types of mind where there isn't a self. For example, in our unconscious, we have what sometimes people would call unconscious cognitive processes. So like, if you're in deep sleep, you know, you're not dreaming, But there's cognitive processes going on, like the body's being impacted or impressed by sense data, and there's a cognitive process in relationship to the body, and sometimes the cognitive process in the body let the person continue to sleep. without dreaming. And then the cognitive process and the body come together to stimulate the arising of self-consciousness.

[21:38]

And then we have sort of, oh, I'm here again. So those are two types of mind. And then there's another kind of mind which I would call wisdom mind, which is the understanding of the nature of these other types of mind. But that wisdom mind is not separate from these other minds. It's more like the correct understanding or it's like the understanding that comes from letting these other minds be themselves. And so that wisdom mind is not separate from the body or separate from the unconscious cognitive processes or separate from self-consciousness. It is more like the way they actually are. It's the reality of them. It's the way you can't get a hold of anything in the process. So it's another type of mind. That's today's version of the tradition.

[22:44]

Yes. It seems like the image of the pearl in the bowl, I found that very unique this morning. Thank you for that. And that the pearl is in touch with the bowl, the bowl is in touch with the pearl, and they are in movement. And maybe staying at one, does not recognize that movement. And so even when we sit in stillness, we're in movement. And that's saying for, really what I wanted to ask you the question if you could talk a little bit more about that movement and even the circle of the band that's connecting this movement together. So I would respond in this way that I am a self and I am others.

[24:01]

And I am the pivoting of self and others. That's what I am. I am self and others, and I am self and others pivoting. But I don't have to move for the pivoting because I am actually already self and other. And I'm self and other but I'm not stuck in self. I'm not stuck in other and I'm not stuck in self and other because I'm pivoting. I'm self and not self. I'm not self and self. So my nature is that I'm not stuck I'm not in one position or the other or both or neither. But I don't have to move to be the way I am. So I move my hands like this

[25:04]

And this movement can occur in stillness. It's not really movement. It's my nature is that I'm me and not me. I'm self and others. I'm others and self. I don't have to move to be that way. So I'm dynamic. I'm pivoting. I'm a pivot in stillness. But stillness is also pivoting with not stillness. And so in this way, I'm not with or in or not with or not in. I'm not abiding anywhere. And this is what's necessary in order to free beings. This is the end of suffering, is to realize that we're not actually stuck anyplace.

[26:12]

We're not abiding in anything. So letting the scene just be the scene is the training which leads to not abiding in the scene. Because abiding in the scene is suffering. And abiding in the scene contradicts our non-abiding nature. I'm non-abiding. I don't have to move to be non-abiding. I'm already that way. But I have to practice letting myself be just what I appear to be in order to give up abiding, in order to let abiding drop away, which it's doing all the time. Yes? I want to say a few things. Your statement about the rapid change and things like that, a few things connected for me with everything I wanted to share.

[27:17]

I've struggled with seeing the world in crisis, which I believe is unprecedented in humanity. had a lot of suffering of trying to do what I can to try and address that. And I've been going through a process of letting crisis be crisis and trying to step away from that. And just recognizing how it's all put together to start with. It seems so difficult. It's one thing to let something small be something small, but letting the crisis this world is in, Acknowledging it and letting it be and knocking back to that is almost seems like a greater message you're saying today. I've really found a lot of peace today with kind of having, listening to you saying that, just being able to recognize that at so many different levels. Thank you so much for bring that forward and what that sent me personally to step through and find peace, be engaged, but finding, letting it be what it is, even with this crisis, is possibly the only way to transcend it.

[28:35]

So I just wanted to share that, that possible myself. Yeah, crisis, one meaning, one definition of crisis is turning point. And it can turn toward, like an illness can turn towards being relieved or getting more intense. So we are, I say we are pivots. We are also crises. We can, we always, we're at a turning point. That's our situation. We're in crisis. And if we can allow things to be, then we can not abide in the crisis, but not going away from it either. And then we can turn with the turning. Yes? I am the universe. What universe is that? Or, yeah, you are everything and also everything is you.

[29:49]

You include everything and you're included in everything. And a lot of people, actually when they hear that, they say, I do not include certain things. And the things that I think I don't include then those are things I feel aversion to. But not just aversion, but more of a tormenting aversion. Because I continually say I don't include them. I don't include him or her. So then I feel aversion. And the things I don't feel included in, then those things I feel greed for. I'm still included in all of you, but if I don't allow myself to be included in you, then I become tormented by greed.

[30:59]

But again, if I can let that torment just be itself, then I won't be with it or not with it. I won't identify with it or not identify with it. I won't be in it. And then that's the end of suffering. However, along with that, which I didn't bring up today, but now I'm going to, along with this I include all of you and I'm included in all of you, along with that, if I accept that, then this thing called the bodhisattva vow arises, where I wish to live for the welfare of others who I include and in whom I'm included. So accepting this teaching, the bodhisattva vow arises, So this training is the end of suffering, but I'm not doing it for the end of my suffering.

[32:10]

I'm doing it for the end of our suffering because I'm in you and you're in me. And I'm not confined by being in you and you're not confined by being in me. I have a question about emotions and being not with you, being with you, being with you, between here and there, but not here and there, probably between. But if you're in a crisis with someone or some tragedy happened, what about the wide range of emotions that human beings feel? like anger, rage, or sadness, sorrow, how does that fit into Well, so the training... And expression of those feelings, if you're not with and not without and not in between.

[33:16]

Well, that not with, not without, not in, not outside, that comes after you succeed in the training. That comes with the success in the training, with the completion of the training. It's not the way it is before you train. Before you train, you are with the emotion or you are identifying with the emotion. You're in the emotion. You're abiding in it. Without... You feel it. No, you're not just feeling it. You're with the feeling and you're in the feeling. That's the way we are without training. So if we ask the Buddha for training, the Buddha might give us the training of when you're feeling anger, when you're feeling fear, when you're feeling grief, then let that fear be just fear.

[34:21]

Let that rage be just rage. Let that grief be just grief. And you train yourself like that. And then when in the fear there's just fear, then you won't be with it. You won't identify with it. You won't be in it. And then that will be the end of suffering with the fear. But we don't start with, you know, I'm not in my feelings or I'm not with my feelings. We start with, I am with my feelings. Those are my feelings. I'm in them and I'm suffering. Or even I'm with my pleasure, I'm with my desire, I'm with my peace. Anything that I think of that I'm with, that I'm in, is suffering. So the training is, let whatever you say, whatever you think, feel, emote, whatever you see, taste, and so on, whatever it is, let it be.

[35:36]

Let it be just what it is, and then you will be relieved of dwelling in it, of identifying And then that will be the end of suffering with that thing. It doesn't mean no more greed, hate, or delusion will arise. It doesn't mean there will be no more fear or anger. But that whatever arises in you or in your environment, you let things be. But you have to train at that, because at first we do not let things be. We want to mess with them. if we see our finite life, we want to manipulate it a little bit in hopes that St. Nicholas will soon be here. In hopes that St. Nicholas will soon be here. Do you know that story? So, you know, we have a finite life and we want to tweak it

[36:45]

manipulate it, meddle with it, in hopes that the suffering we have with our finite life will be alleviated. This is a different training. This is not training in how to manipulate finitude into happiness. This is not how to negotiate with birth and death. it's about letting birth and death just be birth and death. And when you train at that and your training comes to maturity, then you will not identify with birth and death or disidentify with it. Most people, because they don't let birth and death be birth and death, they don't let it be. They identify with it or say, I have nothing to do with it. Like Savly was saying some years ago, he said, I don't have anything to do with birth and death.

[37:48]

That doesn't apply to me. Well, maybe the birth did, but death doesn't. It's not my problem. This suffering is not my problem. This pain is not my problem. That's like disidentifying. Or it is my problem. Okay. But the statement, this is my problem, you can let that be too. And if you can just let that's my problem just be that's my problem, then you won't identify with it or be in it, and that will be the end of suffering with that's my problem or that's not my problem. I hate you. Let I hate you be just I hate you. you hate me i let you hate me just be you hate me it's a cognition and i let it just be a cognition and i train at that and i notice i'm not quite ready i'm not quite no not quite i'm still messing with it a little bit okay then let the messing with it be just messing with it so we train ourselves into intimacy

[39:07]

where there's not with it or away from it, in it or outside of it, and this. And then if we have the bodhisattva vow, we include everybody in this practice. And when it works, everybody's included in it working. And if it doesn't work, you know, if your practice is immature, you're including everybody in your immature practice. Sorry. I'm sorry. So when I'm not thoroughly letting things be, I'm sorry. Oh, and you are like sharing me not really doing my job. I'm sorry. But if I do do my job, you're all included in me doing my job. And I want to do my job, but sometimes I slip up, so I'm sorry because that affects all of you when I'm not thoroughly letting things be. I'm sorry if I do that.

[40:10]

If I don't let things be, I'm sorry. Because that affects you. Yes? When you're training around Yeah, but let the fear be fear. And that may be very difficult. I would recommend letting the, do you see how it feels like it's going to annihilate you?

[41:14]

Yeah. I would let the feeling that it might annihilate me, I would let that feeling be that feeling. That's what I would train to do. I've let the feeling that it, fear or whatever, is going to annihilate me. I would let that be. That's what I would train to do. I try to learn to do. And so now I'm trying to do that. I'm trying to let a feeling that I'm about to be annihilated, I'm trying to let that be. In Buddhism we don't do this so much, but in Christianity when there's a tradition in Christianity, people who are actually feeling that they're going to be annihilated and everybody in the community agreeing with them that they're going to be annihilated, like the Christians in the Roman era when they were brought into the Colosseum to be eaten by lions.

[42:22]

those Christians probably thought, I'm going to be annihilated by those lions. And so part of what they were trying to demonstrate to the Roman people who were watching was, I'm going to let that thought that I'm going to be eaten by the lions be that thought. I'm going to be eaten by the lions. And then I'm going to be able to not be in it, with it, and I'm going to be free of suffering while I'm being eaten by lions." And I think some of the Christians actually did that, and then they could, it seemed like, smile and wave while they were being eaten. And the Romans watched and said, what is their practice? How can they, like, let it be, let being eaten be?

[43:29]

How do you do that? How do you learn how to do that? Well, I don't know how they did it. I don't know what they were doing, but I think they must have been pretty good at letting lions eat them. You're going like this. No what? No, you can't what? Yeah, and the Romans couldn't either. They couldn't figure out how these people could allow themselves to be eaten so graciously. Most people, when they're being eaten, they go, no, let's call this off. Please stop eating me. This is really uncomfortable. Stop. And they might even try to kill whatever's trying to eat them, right? Most people, so if the Christians had just screamed and fought and begged for mercy and so on, the Romans wouldn't have been so impressed. But somehow, the way some of them were, were kind of like, okay, munch away.

[44:35]

And the Romans said, how do you do that? And then he said, I think I'm going to go try to find out where did these people learn that trick? That's really impressive. And so you can't imagine it. So if you saw somebody who could be chopped up into little pieces and then bless people while being chopped, you might say, would somebody tell me what that person, what they got going for them, that they're relaxed when they're being slaughtered? How do they deal with that? Huh? How do I want to deal with it, you mean? I don't know how I would deal with it. How do I want to deal with it? Is that what you're asking me? Yeah. I would like, if I'm going to be slaughtered, I would like to like, if that's what's happening, I would like to welcome the slaughter. And I would like to be careful of the slaughter. Like I might say, would you move that sword over to the left a little, please?

[45:38]

But not to manipulate, but just as a friendly conversation piece. Um. The way you come up with courage is by doing the practices of being compassionate with your fear. So if you have fear, in order to let the fear just be fear, you have to be generous to your fear. Like let it be. Or even like be gracious to your fear. If you're not gracious to your fear, you're not ready to be courageous.

[46:44]

You have to let the fear into your life. Then you can be courageous. Then after you're generous and gracious with the fear, quote, your fear, you're going to soon find out it's not your fear, it's just the fear. You're working up to letting the fear be just fear. So then you start, meet, the first thing you do with the fear is be gracious with it. The first thing you do with the fear is you say, thank you very much for coming. Now when you first feel fear and you say thank you, maybe you said, I said thank you, but I didn't really mean it. Well, I'd say, well, you're training at this. You're training at graciousness. So when the fear first came, you didn't say thank you. So say it again. You say thank you to the fear again, and you still don't mean it. Well, if you ask me, I would say, I want to say it again. And you say it again and again until finally you say, I meant it that time.

[47:50]

I really did mean thank you. I really did mean welcome. But I had to train at it. That's the first step. It's called being generous with small, medium, and almost unlimited fear. You work up to it. Some people can't be generous even with little tiny fears. Well, train at it, and pretty soon, not pretty soon, someday we will be able to be generous with tiny fears. Then you can be generous with medium-sized fears. and so on. After you can be generous with fear, then you practice ethics with the fear. Be careful of it. Practice not killing, not stealing, not lying with the fear. A lot of people try to kill fear. Now I'm not saying you should not take anti-anxiety medication.

[48:52]

I'm not saying that. But some people The way they deal with the fear, they feel like they have to do something to numb themselves to it. So we're training at, like, how can I feel the fear without doing something to numb myself to it? We're trying to learn how to do that. That's part of being careful with fear, is to not numb myself to it. And also not to deny it. Don't lie about it. and also not trying to get something other than the fear. These are ways to be careful with it. Then next comes be patient with it. Try to be present with the fear. Then you move on to the next practice, which is the practice of kind of like courage, courageous effort. And you think, but you've got these first three practices working for you with the fear.

[49:54]

you still haven't reached the point where you can totally let the fear just be the fear. But you're working in that direction and you're getting closer to the fear by being generous with it, careful of it, and patient with it. Then you think about that you actually aspire to be completely free of the fear. even fear of the fear when you're afraid, which is your current situation. So I really would like to be able to walk into a very frightening situation and be present and generous and careful and patient. I really want to. And then you think about that. And the more you think about it, the more energy you feel for doing this amazing practice of being more and more fully present with the fear. And then you start to develop what we call concentration or tranquility with the fear.

[50:58]

You do practices of trying to relax and open to the fear. But again, you have these four practices supporting you to relax and open to the fear and be flexible with it and to play with it and dance with it. And now you're ready to let it be. But you need all these practices to work up to letting it be. If you close the door on something, it's going to be pretty hard to let it be. This is a training process. One second me. And so if you say, how do we get that? You have to train to get to the place where you can let something really difficult, like a huge fear, be. and realize that that fear is calling to you for compassion. Lee?

[52:02]

I'm loving this description that you just described, the training process. And it's a thing that moves me. It's a thing that moves me. For a crisis, I feel that what you're describing is beautiful, and it's really fulfilling. It's just like, as it is, it takes so much time. And I feel that we're out of time in terms of the crisis in the treatment that we're in. So it's a question of how to deal with that. Now we have the thought, we're out of time. That's what we've got now. If you can let that thought, we're out of time, be just that thought, we're out of time, and if you can include everybody in your practice, which you already do,

[53:17]

then you and everybody that's practicing with you will not identify with that thought and will not be in that thought. And that will be the end of suffering. With the thought, we're out of time. With the thought, this is the end of the world. That thought is coming up in this world. In this world we have the thought we're coming to the end of the world. and so I'm talking about how to deal with that thought in a compassionate way so that you can let that thought just be that thought and then not abide in that thought and then bring the relief of suffering to all beings. Yeah, and then let's deal with that fear the same way I taught.

[54:21]

In the fear, let there just be the fear. In the thought, let there just be the thought. This is the ancient sages' training instructions for us. to realize freedom or transcendence of suffering together with everybody. If you did this practice and you were successful, you would realize freedom from suffering, and some people do, but they still cannot believe that everybody else is included in that freedom. That's really hard to believe. And many people who are quite successful in such a practice they still need further instruction because they feel really bad because they don't think everybody's included in their practice. That's why we need this other teaching, which says everybody's included and you're included in everybody so that you understand you're doing this not for yourself.

[55:28]

And also, people have said this seems difficult. If I think of doing this practice just for me, I would say, well, actually, it's too hard. I'm not going to do it. Forget it. It's just too hard. But if I realize that everybody is in basically the situation of it's too hard, everybody thinks it's too hard. The whole world's, you know, so fragile, so in crisis, that since everybody's in this, I can't do it. It isn't just for me. So, on one side it's hard for me to understand how my practice is everybody else's practice, Everybody else's practice is my practice. That's very difficult to understand. But that allows me to, you know, like also in that story, that talk which I mentioned where Suzuki Roshi, not too long before he died, was talking about Sun-faced Buddha, Moon-faced Buddha.

[56:30]

One of the students says, how can we help people? He said, your practice is the way you help people. the way your generosity towards the most terrible thought, your patience, your carefulness, your courage and your flexibility and openness with the most difficult thoughts, that practice helps other people. That's how you help other people, is by doing your practice. And that's very hard to understand. It's hard enough to do the practice, It's very difficult and challenging, as people are saying. But some people do it and they're quite successful and they say, I'm really happy about this, but how does this help other people? Well, it's inconceivable how it helps other people. It's not so inconceivable how it helps you. This does help me. But what about the other people? Well, they're included in you and you're included in them.

[57:34]

And then can you open to that teaching? Yes, what time is it? Is it quarter to one? Twenty to one. Twenty to one. Okay, we have one more question. I feel like I was open to how I'm creating knowledge in the other side of the community by making an offering that I'm teaching. And if you're teaching websites that talk about placing objects without placing objects, Actually, in the poem which I quoted, where it says, Sun-faced Buddha, Moon-faced Buddha, stars fall, thunder rolls, a pearl in the bowl rolls on itself.

[58:35]

Then it says, a mirror faces objects without self. It's the next line of that poem. That's part of it. So like, if you let things be, you know, if you let great, potentially annihilating fear be, then you become a mirror. and the self and the other are pivoting on each other. You're not stuck in the self looking at the suffering. You're in the parallel. And so there isn't a self looking at the situation or the situation looking at the self.

[59:36]

that the situation and the looking, the situation in the mirror are the pearl turning on itself. Thank you very much for your presence.

[59:58]

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