Tonight I'd like to talk about the central form and ceremony of Soto Zen, which is the ceremony in the form of sitting upright. There's a background pattern of images for this discussion of this ceremony. These images could also be used for

[01:06]

the other ceremonies, too. Like last week, we talked about the ceremony of meeting the teacher. So this could be used for any ceremony, any form. But I'll give it to you tonight to use for this ceremony of sitting. But I think you can use it for all of them. It's a poem, a children's poem, written in French originally by a poet named Jacques Prévert. And it's called How to Paint the Portrait of a Bird, in English, anyway. Paint a cage with the door open.

[02:08]

Then paint something pretty, something simple, something useful for the bird. Then place the canvas against a tree in a garden, in a wood, in a forest. Hide behind the tree. Sit without speaking, without moving. Sometimes the bird comes quickly, but he can just as well spend long years before deciding. Don't get discouraged.

[03:15]

wait wait years if necessary the swiftness or slowness of the coming of the bird has no rapport with the success of the picture when the bird comes observe the most profound silence till the bird enters the cage. And when he has entered, gently close the door with a brush. Then, Paint out all the bars of the cage one by one, taking care not to touch any of the feathers of the bird.

[04:36]

The portrait of a tree, choosing the most beautiful branches for the bird. Paint also green foliage, and the wind's freshness, and the dust of the sun, and the noise of insects. And then wait for the bird to decide to sing. The bird doesn't sing. It's not a good sign. It's a sign painting. is bad. But if he sings, it's a good sign, a sign that you can sign. So if it sings, one for the feathers of the bird.

[05:45]

And with it, you can write your name in the corner of the painting. So coming back to the scenario of practice that I mentioned last week, applying to the ceremony of going to meet a teacher and discussing the teaching together, And next comes relaxation, then playful, then play, or being playful, then be creative, then understanding, then liberation. I think maybe you could see the scenario in this poem. But again, going back to the first step of commitment. In this ceremony of sitting, in some sense, the first step is this big step of commitment.

[07:02]

And one of the synonyms for commitment, the English word commitment, is entrust. A little bit different from trust. It's more like entrust. Entrust your mind to this ceremony commit your body and mind um to a time and a place and a posture and a vow a vow um or you know of what you wish what you wish this commitment this ritual to accomplish or contribute to. I think you're familiar with, it's very common in Zen to say, we kind of emphasize being present, entrusting your or entrusting your life

[08:24]

to your present body and mind or to the presence of your body and mind trust yourself to right here and right now and commit to being here and now and that's committing to a time and a place but you can also commit to commit for a limited period of time, you can say, I'll commit to be present for a half an hour. After that, I may not be able to commit to that. I may, I may, yeah, I'm just going to say for a half an hour. After that, I might be able to be present, I'm not sure, but I have some things to do and enough things and really sincerely follow through on the commitment to really entrust my body, moment after moment, to being right here.

[09:32]

So I'll just commit myself to be here and present for half an hour. And you might also say, I will commit to being here and present for half an hour certain days of the week. And I will commit to doing that for a certain period of time, like a month or two months. But if you just say, I commit to be present here and now, if you're not clear about whether you mean that all day long, every day, as thorough. In some ways it's more thorough to set some limits, like I'm going to enter this present moment in place in this posture, in this limited time, in this limited posture, for a limited period of time.

[10:46]

I may recommit to another exercise, another ceremony, but I'm going to do it for a limited period of time, like a half an hour, like once a day, and like in a certain place. So part of the form of the ceremony is time and space and posture. Painting the cage and putting something simple, something beautiful and something useful in the cage for the bird means that if you want to attract the bird to come into this form, want to attract the bird to make a commitment, container.

[12:01]

It's probably good to put something in there to attract the bird. So what can you think of that's simple and pretty and beautiful and useful that would attract you to enter the ceremony that would help you make that commitment to entrust yourself to that container? And I say yourself, but I also don't really mean you, and I don't really mean the bird somebody else. I think the bird is really you and everybody else, actually. The bird is really the true relationship with everyone. But if I'm not willing to enter the cage, it's hard to get everybody that's related to me to enter the cage and my true relationship.

[13:15]

So I'm willing to enter the cage, but I also want to attract the truth of what I am into the cage too. So I want to attract myself and everybody else into the cage and then close the door. another side of the to get inside and then close off the exit for a while I'll be committed to this presence for one moment one moment I'll close the door for one moment okay or one moment and another moment until the bell rings in 30 minutes. Now here's another story.

[14:16]

This is a story about Shakyamuni Buddha. And he practiced sitting meditation a lot before this story occurred but anyway after a lot of sitting meditation but not the kind of meditation that we're talking about here he decided finally that he was ready to make the commitment to sit and to not move from his sitting place until he attained the way. And he had a lot of training before he could make this commitment. But anyway, he felt that it was time, so he did make that commitment. Under a tree, behind a tree, in front of a tree, anyway, under a tree,

[15:29]

And to sit there and not move until he attained the way made a really sincere, awesome commitment. And he had the ability to actually sit and not move for a long time. So it's conceivable he could have sat for a really long time until he attained the way. According to the story, he didn't have to sit that long before things started to really happen. And I want to mention that when he first made this commitment, it looks like he made the commitment unilaterally. Looks like he decided the commitment, and he decided to entrust himself to this sitting until he attained the way. That's what it looks like at the beginning. And... When you make a commitment, when you get into a cage, you feel different, and when the door closes, you feel different.

[16:38]

I guess, get in the cage, but with the door open. I'm just in here for a little while. Like in Monopoly, they have that jail, you know, and there's a part that says, just visiting. You sort of just go through there. You're not actually in jail. When you actually get in, it feels different. than just visiting and like, I'm here but I might leave any minute, rather than I'm here and I'm not going to leave until I attain the way. This is a big commitment, a real stillness, tremendous stillness that he was entrusting himself to. What often happens then when you feel this deep commitment is the world inside and outside comes to challenge that commitment. And so these large groups of, in some sense, deities, sometimes called demons, came, very powerful beings came, to challenge him and to encourage him to move, to give up this commitment.

[17:55]

Before you make certain commitments, nobody tries to follow through on the commitments. Before you, I don't know what, decide you're not going to eat veal anymore, people don't start pushing veal on you. But when they find out you don't eat veal, they start to say, you know, all we've got is veal. And it's delicious. Why don't you eat it? And if you commit to other things, too, somehow people who didn't bring anything to you before, when somehow they sense that you've committed to something, they... Well, some people, not everybody, but some people just feel like, just strongly drawn to test you. But before there was a commitment, why would they test you? Nothing to test. They just leave you alone. If they see you eating a lot of veal or having sex with lots of people, they don't come up to you and say, you know, can I test you? But they see you really committed to something. There's forces in the world that test you.

[18:58]

If you take a yoga posture, just for a moment, you know, no commitment, then these forces of, don't you want to move, don't really come, because you're going to move any minute anyway, maybe. Stay in this posture. until I attain the way, something comes to tempt you. And so the first masses were tempting, basically, tempting him in the form of, or testing him in the form of saying, you know, there's a lot better things to do than just sit here. Way more quickly, if you'd come to a party with us, because we're going to have some really good stuff there, and it might be nirvana stuff. So come on. Anyway, the really attractive options to his commitment were offered to him. And because his commitment was so strong, the options or the attractive distractions were very powerful, too.

[20:12]

They had to be really strong to test this incredibly powerful commitment. This thing wouldn't have any effect, but he actually was pushed. It was not easy to just keep sitting there with these very attractive things came. Whatever, you know, whatever you would find attractive, it came. Or it comes, I would say. So you find these things attractive, and you find those things attractive. Well, the things that don't attract you didn't. That was what came. What attracted him came. He actually was attracted by these things, but he didn't move. And another big wave moved these things back away and dissipated. Then another big wave came, and the next big wave was threats of what would happen to him if he didn't move. And... You know, and, like, you're going to get... You know, your whole body is going to go numb permanently.

[21:26]

You're going to go crazy. We're going to smash you to smithereens. All these kinds of threats to what would happen if you didn't move came, and he was able, actually, to continue sitting. That unmoving posture dispersed the masses of threatening forces. And then the most difficult test came in the form of a very bad person who says, you know, you're actually very arrogant. You're not going to be able to attain the way anyway because you're so arrogant to think that you could attain the way by yourself. And you could make the decision to make this commitment. How could an arrogant person ever attain the way? Somebody who thinks he can decide for himself that he's going to pull this off. And actually the Buddha saw, you know, that got him too.

[22:29]

That moved him, I mean, that touched him too. Because there's a good point to that. So I would say, I won't decide myself that I'm going to sit here. I've changed my story. I'll check to see if the whole world wants me to sit here until I attain the way. It won't be just me that's attaining the way by my own power. It's me that decides to make this commitment. I'll see if the whole world wants me to make this commitment. So he took his right hand and he touched the earth. and asked the earth to witness his sitting and asked the earth if it supported him to make this commitment. It roared back in myriad voices, merriest thundered voices, yes, we want you to sit and follow through on this commitment until the way is attained.

[23:35]

and the earth actually shook in six ways not to get him to move but to affirm that the whole earth wanted him to sit and attain the way so in a way i would suggest that when if you can forms that you actually open your mind to that you're not committing to them all by yourself that if you're going to commit to sit still for thirty minutes or forty minutes repeatedly make a commitment to do something like that until way is attained that you think about it in terms of doing it together with other people that you think about whether the earth supports you and you can even take your right hand and touch the earth to support you to sit this period or does it support you would you please and do you

[24:48]

This is not the ceremony of one person sitting zazen by herself. It's the ceremony of one person sitting zazen together with everybody. Because it's not the ceremony of one person doing zazen, doing sitting meditation. You could do a ceremony like that, but this is the ceremony of sitting together with everybody and also sitting together with all Buddhas and bodhisattvas. You cannot do this particular Soto Zen ritual by yourself. And also nobody else can do it for you. Like I'm not saying that everybody understands Christianity this way, but some people think you don't have to do anything.

[26:05]

Jesus already did the work. Some people think that. So Buddha already did the work. The Buddhas have already done the work, but they're not going to do the work. And they didn't do the work by themselves then either. And now Buddhas are doing the work, but they don't do the work by themselves, they do the work with everybody. So Buddhas aren't going to do your practice for you, but Buddhas will practice with you. And other people won't do your practice for you, but everybody will practice with you. So this upright sitting is done in the context of a commitment which everybody supports, which means it's done within an understanding that the commitment is done with the support of everyone, that you're practicing together with everyone.

[27:11]

So the ceremony is usually done in groups. I think a lot of people who are practicing Soto Zen meditation do it in their room and there's no other person in the room that you can see. But I don't know if the, you know, I don't know where they're practicing are, but the ceremony is recommended to be done in groups as a ceremony. But even if you do the ceremony and nobody else is in the room, then part of the ceremony should be to understand that you're sitting in a group. It's just that the other people are not in the same room as you. They're in other rooms or under other trees or in other states or other countries. In other words, this central practice, this central ritual is a ritual not in your room.

[28:21]

and not even you in a group in one room, but sitting in a group like this is part of visualizing and imagining that you're sitting together with all beings. And that this commitment is actually also a commitment to the way you're practicing together with all beings. that you're putting, you're entrusting yourself to the way you're practicing together with everybody. You're entrusting yourself to the way you're living in peace and harmony with everybody. You're committing to that and also to specific concrete time and place. To think, oh, I'm going to sit with everybody, but not be willing to actually sit at a particular time and place is not, it's an imagined, it's a thought, but it's not actually the ceremony.

[29:39]

The ceremony is acted physically in time and space. So another part of the ceremony would be that you would invite everybody to come and practice with you. You would invite the presence of everyone to come and practice with you. That's slightly different from saying you plunge into the situation where you're already practicing with everyone. But it's kind of the same thing, it's just that it's a little bit more active. It's taking some initiative. Rather than just say, I'm going to be in the place, I also invite everyone to come and join me in the place. I'm going to be in the place where everyone's with me. I'm going to entrust myself to the place where everyone's with me. And I'm going to say that so that everybody knows where I am.

[30:39]

This is another part of the commitment, another part of inviting the bird into the cage. It's a simple thing or a beautiful thing or a useful thing to get everybody to come and join you. To realize and finally celebrate this way of being. This is all really still just, in some sense, part of the commitment or the entrustment. And then when all that's done pretty well, then, as I said before, you can relax. Everybody's there. You can relax. Everybody can handle you. You're not too much for the whole universe to cope with. You can relax.

[31:41]

And also, you don't have to even be yourself all by yourself. Everybody's there propping you up to be who you are. But again, you commit to a posture so that they can know which posture to prop you up into. You don't just vaguely sit in the present. I'm here now. I'm at this place and I'm in the present. So I'll just be in whatever posture I want. No. You've got the mind thing because you've got your mind here and now. Your mind's not drifting away. You're here. But also you get your body to be here. Choose a posture. You're going to choose a posture. You can choose whatever one you want, basically. But this one that you're... The one that the Buddha sits in is actually probably highly recommended. If you choose, you know, some posture like this, it's fine, but... You wouldn't want to do it for too long.

[32:43]

It'd be hard to hold your arm up in the air like this for a long time. choose a posture would be apropos of the amount of time you're gonna sit or stand or whatever but we're talking about sitting now and also you may not if you make a commitment to sit your commitment may not be powerful enough to get a being to come and actually talk to you and threaten you. Threaten you with what? With who do you think you are that you can make this commitment by yourself? That may not be the case. So I would suggest to you that if you make a commitment, it's good actually

[33:45]

to check it out with somebody else. If you were going to say, I'm going to go sit under a tree and I'm not going to move until I attain the way, I think it would be good if you told somebody that beforehand. Most people would say, well, I don't know, that seems a bit much. That you're not going to move until you attain the way? You mean, you know, you're going to sit outdoors until you cannot move? I don't know if you're ready to do that, really. And you might have a conversation and say, oh, okay, I agree, go ahead. But you might say, well, maybe I'll make a little bit less of a commitment. Maybe I'll say, I'll sit for, not that I'm not going to move until I attain the way, but I'm not going to move for half an hour. And I hope I attain the way during that half hour. I hope that that way of sitting is attaining the way, and maybe it is.

[34:48]

But that kind of commitment he made was not necessarily something you should do unless you talk to somebody about it, or maybe talk to quite a few people. You work with, and your family, too, you should consult with them. And they might say, okay, go for it. But they might say, no, this is too much. Don't make the commitment by yourself. And, you know, check with your family and friends to see if they support your commitment to your ceremony of sitting meditation. It's not You don't do it by yourself. You don't do this practice by yourself. You don't do this commitment by yourself. And you might think, well, if I ask them and what if they say they don't want me to go practice and I do want to practice, then what am I going to do?

[35:55]

Well, I would say, find out. Find out what you do when you say, I want to go meditation now. Find out what you're going to do if they say, I don't want you to. See what you do then. You might say, but I really want to. And they say, but I don't want you to. You say, well, You know, if I gave you some money, would you let me? How much? $5. If it's a kid, $5 is probably enough. Or you can watch a video while I'm meditating. How's that? Or after I'm done, I'll take you to the park. How's that? Okay. Okay. Do it together with everybody, even people who can't sit. But you may not have time maybe to check with everybody, but at least maybe check with the people who, if you would check with them, they would say, they might say no.

[36:59]

If you walk down the street, it's like College Avenue, you say, I'm going to the yoga room to meditate. Is it all right? Most people would say, fine. No. Or... But if you ask your family, they might say, no, we just skipped a class tonight. Stay home and watch TV with me or whatever. They might. You know that, so that's why you don't ask them. You ask people on the street instead. And even though you did ask them, can I take this series of classes to the yoga room? And they agreed three months ago, when the class actually comes, they say, yeah, I said okay now, but now I don't want you to go. You have to ask them, right? Just go. Because you asked them before and they forgot now. Or they remember what they changed their mind. Don't ask them because they might make it more difficult to come, right? No, wrong. Ask them. That I was going to take this class?

[38:02]

Yeah. Is it still okay with you if I go? No. I kind of regret asking. But Rep told me to ask, and now I got this problem he said I might have. So you can say again, please. Okay, do you really support me? No. Would you please support me? Okay. You really support me? Yes, I do. Now that person's practicing with you. Now that person's practicing. you've got them to join the ceremony and if you didn't ask them before I mean if you asked them before or didn't ask them before or if you asked them before and they forgot and now you avoid asking them again because you're afraid they won't cooperate then avoiding all the people you are afraid won't cooperate means practicing with them you don't want to practice with them you just want them to let you go do the practice with the people who do support you that's not the practice

[39:09]

If you're planning to do the ceremony and the people who actually care whether you leave the house and go do it or not, those people, to not talk to them is avoiding the ceremony. That's part of the ceremony is to get them to join it because they want to be included in all the ceremonies you do. And if they say they don't want you to go and you don't go, you're still doing the ceremony. You may never get to the place of sitting with the other people, but you're doing the work of ceremonially enacting that you're doing it together with these people you live with. This is also part of it. Yet you've made enough of a commitment so that you're actually about to leave the house and go to the yoga room and sit or go to the Zen Center and sit.

[40:17]

You actually are going to now, you've made the commitment. You want to make the commitment. You're ready to do it. But you're also committed to doing it together and inviting everybody to do it with you. And you also realize that your commitment is done with the support of everybody. So you ceremonially enact that commitment by talking to some people. That's part of the ceremony. And when you are going to make the commitment and you're going to check with other people whether they support the commitment and you think or supports you, then part of the practice is also to relax with the commitment that you want to make, with the commitment that you're willing to make, is to relax with it. And if you can relax with it, to be playful with it, and therefore to say, I'm thinking of going to meditate now, rather than, I don't know what, you know, I'm going to meditate now.

[41:25]

Is that okay with you? Sure, sure. So you've got the commitment, but you're tense about it. And then, because you're tense about it, the people around you, even the people who practice with you, not to mention the people who aren't going to actually go to the ceremony at the next phase, they're just doing the warm-up preliminary to the ceremony. These people don't really feel like you really want to practice with them, because you're basically telling them, I'm going to do this, and I hope you don't interfere with me. Do you, by any chance, support me? which includes, I'm actually open to hearing that you don't support me. It's not like I'm practicing with you and I only want to hear from you if you're supporting me. It's like I want to do this with you and I even want to hear you do it. Yeah, I do. I'm relaxed with the possibility of not being able to go and not being able to do it.

[42:27]

That's the next phase of the ceremony after the commitment is to be relaxed to such an extent you wouldn't be able to follow through on the commitment the way you committed you committed to a time you committed to a posture you did and now it's time to relax with that and maybe you won't do the posture so like I spent quite a few years committing the ritual, the form of sitting. When I broke my leg, I did not rigidly continue to sit cross-legged. If I was really rigid about it, I could have gone ahead and did it. It would have been really painful, and I probably would have done a lot. But of course, that was too much. I wasn't that committed. And or, I was that committed, but I was relaxed about it, and I wasn't afraid to look like a Zen priest who can't sit very nicely because he's got a broken leg, and he even let the broken leg get in his way.

[43:39]

You know. Oh, we thought, you know, if he broke his leg that he'd keep sitting in full lotus anyway. What a wimp. Yeah. Be a wimp. I mean, Be relaxed and be relaxed about people calling you a wimp. Be committed and relaxed and be relaxed about people saying that you're not very committed. Once you make the commitment, you can relax with people saying, you're not very committed. You got that one right. I'm not committed. ...reporting me to fulfill the commitment... which I can't do by myself, by testing my commitment, by telling me that I'm not committed. Thanks. This is starting to enact of doing it together. Doing it together means that you're doing it together with people who support you the way you think they should be supporting you.

[44:47]

You're doing it together with the people who are supporting you the way they're supporting you. and then you start to move into playfulness around the form and once again people who commit but don't relax my experience is even though they make a strong commitment they break it or it's broken because of the lack of relaxation the tension makes the commitment too painful They get in the cage, and they don't relax, so the bars stay, and they stay too long. So you get into the cage, and you relax, and then in that playfulness and relaxation, in that relaxation and playfulness, the bars can be painted away. And in this case, they aren't painted away by the bird.

[45:57]

They're painted the bars. Maybe that's enough so that you can jump in on this a little bit. Comments about this ceremony? sitting yes they say no and you manipulate a yes you manipulate it and you think and you and should you leave i don't know relax and play with a situation i might say well do you have a cell phone you want to call somebody and talk to them Well, cool. Would you do it outside, though? Or would you like us to listen to you?

[46:58]

Actually, I'd like to listen to you. But, you know, it's up to you. Would you rather do it outside? Okay. Do you want to hear her? We can all talk. Yeah. I don't. Pardon? I don't. The point is that you're willing for them to discuss this with you. That's what's important. Just like when I say to you, go ahead, just like when I say to you, if you're going to miss a class, please tell me if you can. If you don't, then I don't know, but if you are willing to, that's what's much more important than I hear. And then you can tell me later, you know that I didn't hear, or you can check with me and I say, no, I didn't hear. You say, well, now I'll tell you again that I, because I thought it would be, or, you know, I was supported too.

[48:06]

I was supported too. It's your mother. Yes. Yes. Yes. I wonder how you do that. Should I put that? Wait a second. Okay, well, here's the thing. Hey, Mom. I'll come home right now. Yeah. Or I'll come home and take you home, or I'll talk to you about it and have you watch it. Okay, I'll come home now. How do you feel? I don't know. Well, are you ready to go home? It's the right thing to come.

[49:13]

You thought it was the right thing to come? Well, maybe it wasn't. I did not presume I could do it. Pardon? I thought you could do it. Well, this is, you know, in some sense, I think, to me, it's a great story that you thought you could manipulate for Zen and you came and then we had this conversation and then you realized... Of all nights. Of all nights. Well, it's kind of like if you get enough people together, somebody will manifest the example. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do we support her to go home? Yeah. Is that okay with you, Paul? The class is almost over anyway. And you guys got a good thing out of it. That's great. Remember we were talking about it Saturday, about the right action is the reaction, not the action you do by yourself.

[50:19]

but they actually do it together. So we're doing this all with you. Your mother's doing it with you. This is the ceremony of sitting meditation. It wasn't Saturday. It was Thursday. Kara? Kara? Well, my first question was, I wanted to know how one knows about knowing that there are this type of instructions that are written right on. Obviously, when you talk to them, it's not like when you submit it, you're . and who did those in the life of practice.

[51:24]

But inside, you didn't know all the commitment that was involved with making it easier. But I wonder as well, like, how, what, how you knew, and how, how one would know if they were at that stage, that you didn't trust them at all. That was my first question. The second question had to do with the props and the role for this thing. I was very Catholic, so I'm a little bit wary of props. Props? Yeah, like they're not food. Uh-huh. Yeah. And that's part of the structure as well. Okay. So freedom with it. Well, the first part is something about knowing about the commitment when you're ready. The story was, in addition to all his background, the Buddha's background, there was also this thing that happened.

[52:28]

I think it was his water bowl or something. Maybe it was his alms bowl. I'm not sure. But anyway, he was down by the stream with his alms bowl. Either he put it in the water or it fell in the water, and it moved upstream. It went upstream. It was floating in the water, but then it floated upstream, and he thought, oh. So he said, it's time to make the commitment. So there was this signal he felt, this omen that now was the time he could make this commitment. And sometimes people, for example, people talk to me about going to do a training period, through my training period in the mountains. And, you know, I usually look with them about whether they're likely to do that. A lot of times with young people who aren't married, don't have kids and so on, they finish their school or they have a break in school or whatever, and I often say, if this opening is there now,

[53:34]

I would say go now because you don't know when the conditions will allow you to make this commitment later. Now, it's rare to be able to make this kind of commitment. When you can make it, I would say make it now because you might not be able to do it later. When you do have lots of other commitments, it is more complicated to consult these people, but again, not to manipulate them. not to talk them into it, but actually see if they really do support it. And making deals and negotiating things doesn't have to be manipulating, it can just be searching for the venue of support. Where is the support and what is their support for? And people support you to be the person you are, you know, and they support you to have the desires you have. But they don't necessarily support you to follow through on your desires.

[54:36]

But sometimes they not only support you to be who you are and have your desires, but they also support you to exercise them. But to have this perspective on your activity, of sharing it with other people, of not being unilateral about your activity, is already doing this meditation. It's a ceremonial enactment. So, again, in the ceremony of going to talk to the teacher, to go and talk to the teacher about practices you're thinking of doing is not just to sort of like see if it's all right with the teacher or get the teacher's approval, because the teacher might not agree what you're going to do, and you might do it anyway. It doesn't mean you do what the teacher says, but the enactment of doing it together is the most important thing, I feel. So if you wish to make a commitment to this type of practice, it makes sense that you would do it with people.

[55:44]

And you do it particularly with the people who feel that you should be doing things with them. People who don't really see you as doing things together with them, you could talk to them too and they might be surprised and actually touched. Like sometimes when I'm doing retreats around the world and I say, you know, It affects me if you don't show up. Some people think, I didn't think it would make any difference to you whether I was here or not. And they feel really touched that their presence is something that's impacting me, that it touches me. And if they're present or absent, they're quite surprised to hear that. And that I want to hear something from them about this. And that I want them to share decisions, at least during a retreat setting, with me. And some of them find it really... Well, very touching. But I don't absolutely require it, so that, you know, I just tell them this is what I want.

[56:46]

So it's not so much that you're absolutely sure that it's the time to do it, but when I left Minnesota, I kind of asked my best friend if they supported me to leave. And they did. They kind of missed me going, and I kind of missed losing them. I kind of felt like I was running into the limits of my ability to be a good friend in a certain way if I didn't take care of myself in certain ways. I thought I would be a better friend if I would go and practice Zen. I think, I don't know what I would have become if I'd stayed, but that was my intention was to go and train myself to, in some sense, among other things, to be better friends to my friends that I already had. And Most of those friends I had at that time I'm still friends with and I think in a way I'm, yeah, that my practice has helped me continue to be friends with them over the years. I don't know if I would have continued without practicing right now. I don't have a control group.

[57:47]

So any more questions about that kind of important point about when you know it's time? Consult with other people. And particularly consult with people who are involved in the thing you're thinking of committing to. And also particularly consult with those people who feel like they're living together with you and sharing their life with you. And therefore they expect you to be living with them and sharing your life with them. So it would be kind of a violation of their sense of cooperation with you for you not to cooperate with them. And cooperating means talking to them about what you're going to do. If you don't agree, you can cooperate with people even though they don't agree with what you're doing. I myself feel like when someone comes and asks me about something and I say I don't think it's a good idea and then they go ahead and do it anyway, I feel like they're doing it with me because they talk to me about it.

[58:56]

And when they're doing it, they usually remember, yeah, he didn't agree with this. So I'm there with them because they talked to me about it. And they might actually feel my presence more than the people who said, fine. Fine, go ahead, do it. But the one person who disagreed, they might really be thinking, I wonder why he disagreed. It seems okay. And then I continue to think it's okay, but it changes the whole way that the experience goes. Does that help you somewhat? I think the props are, you know, props are time, place, posture, for example. Those are props. Without those things, your commitment is, you know, it's kind of hard to tell whether you're following through on it. Like I said, people say, I want to practice.

[60:03]

In the early days of Zen Center, one of my first jobs there was to be the guest student manager. I was a guest student manager on Bush Street in San Francisco before we had the San Francisco Zen Center. We did laboratories across from the temple. And then I was also the guest student manager off and on after we moved to 300 Page Street. And I would have this experience, you know, I was the young person too, but I would have the experience of these people, young and old, coming to Zen Center, you know, to practice Zen, you know. And I would interview them to be guest students and take them. and receive their money for being guest students. And I would tell them the schedule and they would be kind of like, I'm here to practice Zen. I'm going to get up in the morning and practice Zazen and follow the schedule and, you know, rake the sand garden and, you know, I'm going to be a Zen student. And I go, yeah, right, great. And then I go to Zendo in the morning and... And they weren't there.

[61:12]

So then I would go to their room. Knock, knock, knock. Yeah. Excuse me. What? Zazen? No, forget it. You know, they want to practice Zazen, but not now. Not early in the morning. Well, that's when we do it. That's one of the times we do it is in the early morning. I don't want to do it now. If they hadn't made that commitment, I wouldn't even have gone to the room. But also if they hadn't made that commitment, they wouldn't have found out that they didn't want to go. They would have just slept in and got up and said, no, it's breakfast, good. They said, boy, Zen's not bad. And then tomorrow morning I'll get up and practice Zazen. That would be cool. I'd like to practice meditation. That would be like a Zen monk. I'll be a Zen monk. But without commitment, they don't find out that, they don't find some stuff out.

[62:14]

They didn't make the commitment, so they did find out, because the guy at the door, knock, knock, hello, guess who it is? It's your, the student manager coming to visit you, asking you, would you like, we'd like you to come and sit with us. Would you like to? No, well, okay. You're changing your commitment? Yes, okay. Well, then if they don't, enjoy knob hill you know hope you like fishermen's work anyway zen center it's not for you you don't want to make commitment to this fine but if you do make a commitment then we we can check up on this if they want to practice zen they make no commitment then we'll and sort of the zen center they're having nice nice rest They're reading this paper in the morning with coffee and, you know, having some toast. It's very nice. You know?

[63:17]

They're practicing. And nobody considered it, because they didn't make any commitments to go to the Zendo or whatever. But with commitments, specifically, and also when they get in the Zendo. Do they sit on a zappu or do they sit in the middle of the floor? You don't have to sit on a zappu, but, you know, generally speaking, say, would you... This seat, rather than all over the place? Of course. But then people that... That makes a big difference that you're going to sit to this place rather than wherever. You may want a different seat. You know, these kinds of things, when it comes down to sitting in this place rather than that place, next to this person rather than that person, When things get committed and formalized, you start finding out things about yourself that you don't find out without these commitments. So the forms can be varied, but we do need to be formal, I think, in order to find certain things out. We've got enough information, I think, most of us.

[64:22]

If we don't, let me know. But the formal commitments can be... They're not really the... They're not really the point. The point is we need a cage to get the bird. Then we can paint the bars away. But first of all, the bird has to go into this training situation, this commitment. Once they're in there, then we can relax and be playful and paint the cage away and paint a tree in a place Put insects in the sun and have singing and dancing. But this is after you enter the cage. And the cage can look like props. Like, why do we have this, you know, this bird food here next to my meditation suit? People get into, like, you know, the mirror in the cages or that little scratching thing that they have for the birds, that that's really sacred.

[65:29]

And then you start to feel funny, but it's all just something to paint away. The whole thing of Buddhism is just an opportunity to become free of Buddhism. But you have to put it out there, something, and then commit to it. Otherwise, painting it away doesn't mean anything. To walk by a cage and not enter it doesn't mean anything. The cage away, say, okay, fine, so what? Or they paint the cage and they make it invisible or they melt it down, doesn't mean anything. But if you go into the cage and close the door, then the cage being there or not being there is a big deal. And it's not going to go away unless you enter it. I mean, it's not going to go away in a meaningful way unless you enter it. And it's not going to go, once you enter it, it's not going to go away by you jumping out of it.

[66:31]

I mean, it's going to go away. You'll be outside, but you won't experience the point of the cage. The point of the cage is to paint it away. And you don't paint it away unless you relax, playful, and creative with the cage. So you have to choose your cage. Find a cage that's got something pretty inside, something beautiful, something simple, and something useful. Enter the cage, close the door, and then become... playful and relaxed and creative, and paint it away. But the people who paint it away, those are the committed people. So the point of it is to transcend it all. You have to commit to it, and committing is not enough. You have to commit, and then, once you commit, wholeheartedly, then don't take that commitment too seriously. Once you're devoting your entire life to this, then relax with that.

[67:37]

You know, and if you want to come home, go home. As an act of being playful and relaxed. Maybe some tears, but also she was relaxed enough to bring it up and let us know that there was a little bit of tension maybe in her coming here. Her mother didn't really... Does that make some more sense now? Yes? What if the mother never agrees? What if the mother never agrees? Yeah, what if the father never agrees? What if the father never agrees? Like, what if I never agreed? Huh? What if I never agree? What do I recommend? Hmm? You come, what do you mean come anyway? No, but I'm talking about, if you're talking to me, didn't agree, what do you think I'd recommend you do?

[68:43]

What? Maybe. But that's the main thing I recommend you do. You could come and talk to me about something and I don't agree. Huh? Relax with it. Relax with it, yeah. Relax with what you want to do and relax with me saying I don't agree. And become playful with me and what you want to do and yourself. And then be creative with me and what you want to do and yourself. And then you'll understand and you'll be free with what you want to do and yourself. And that's like one disagreement, right? One disagreement is enough to become enlightened. But if you come and you're asking me if I support you and I don't, if you're talking to me, I'll be your mother, but anyway, or just if you wanted to talk to me, I would say, if I disagree with you, it doesn't mean you can't do what I disagree with.

[69:53]

But you might, if I disagree with you, you might actually say, that's a good point there. You might change your mind. You're afraid to disagree with me because you think you have to do what I think is best, but you actually take a different view because you talk to me. But you can also go ahead and do what you still think is best, which might be something I disagree with. The important point is that you can talk to me. So if you say she never agrees, I would say, fine. to her say here I am again mom I'm saying I want to do this do you agree and she says no I say okay I hear you see you later but you keep talking to her and she keeps saying do not meditate anymore go to church instead so and then it isn't like okay I'm not going to talk to you anymore mom again time to meditate want to play mom or do you want to like lay down the law want to be Moses or do you want to be a clown You know? And then are you being Moses or are you being a con and you say, I'm going to practice Zen.

[70:55]

That's the law. Or are you kind of like... It wasn't... It was clowns. It was funny. It was Zen people who were relaxed and playful. That's what attracted me. Not some... I was never attracted to... I mean, I saw that movie Ten Commandments, but I didn't think it was that, you know... I never really... I mean, Charlton Heston's... But... It's got a lot going for him. Nice body, important figure in the National Railroad Association. Anyway, that made me think, boy, I want to, you know, this is like totally cool. And all those big stone things. I just kind of thought, when I, you know, I watched the whole movie. But it didn't really attract me, but these Zen stories attracted me.

[71:56]

So you go see the Zen master, and you go, I want to meditate, and the Zen master says, don't meditate. Or you want to say, I don't want to meditate, and the Zen master says, fine. Or you say, I don't want to meditate, and the Zen master says, you have to. And you say, I'm not going to. And they say, you should. And you say, I won't. And you say, oh, shucks. Please, you know. The point is, you go to the Zen master, You don't run away from your mama because she doesn't agree with you and say, I'll come and see your mama if you agree with me. No, you keep in touch with the people who you are living with, which includes usually your mother. Now, my mother's not alive anymore, so it's different, but when I had a chance, that was my job, is to go see my mother because I was her big boy. Is that completely clear now? So, don't just come to see me because you think I'm going to agree with you and support what you want to do.

[73:02]

Come and see what I think of what you want to do. Really, I'm wondering, do I support it? Do I agree? And if you find out I don't, you say, boy, that was really interesting. Now I've got a more complicated life. This guy doesn't agree with what I want to do. But I still I don't think I'm going to do it. But you came and talked to me. That's the way to practice Zazen, is to show your interest, show your interest and commitment to the people who are really interested in the commitment you're making. Tracy's mother was interested in the commitment that she made to come to this room. And her interest was also that she was interested in her not coming to this room. And Tracy worked with that, and then she heard this story, and she worked with some more, and now... And if her mother keeps not letting her come to Zen Center, and she keeps talking, I should say, keeps saying she doesn't want her to come, we'll see what happens.

[74:11]

Doesn't mean she won't come. and doesn't mean her mother will never say she can. So you check with these people and sometimes they say no and sometimes you go anyway. But the thing is, check with them. Check with your teacher, your teacher doesn't agree with you. That's difficult. But you checked with it. That's the important thing. Does that make sense now? Any questions about this? Yes? The same thing applies to the body, which means sometimes you ask your body, and your body says, no way, and sometimes you listen to your body, and sometimes you don't. So sometimes you ask your body, your body says no, and you say, I'm going to go ahead anyway, and sometimes you find out it was fine.

[75:18]

The body was wrong. Oops, the body was right. It's trial and error. Dangerous. It's dangerous anyway. Commitments are dangerous. But not making commitments, you can't practice. But once you make commitments, things get tough. but talk in the direction of now you can relax before you don't when you don't make any commitments relaxation doesn't really make any sense before you make commitments you should be uptight all the time so transfer your tension into your commitment and then relax so commit to sit still or posture that you think is reasonable and when your body says I don't think so listen to it and say what do you want me to do I say move so then you maybe maybe you move and later you find out that was okay then again it says move and you say okay I move so that was okay and then sometimes you feel like you know I think I moved too much I don't feel good now I mean I do what the body said and I feel lousy

[76:23]

I feel more pain than I did before. Then the next time you don't move so much, you say, actually, it worked better that way. And then sometimes your body says move and you don't, and you hurt yourself. So you start to learn when to listen and when not. Sometimes your teacher says don't do it, and you say. And sometimes you later realize the teacher was right. Sometimes you say, it wasn't that the teacher was wrong. It just said it worked out. The teacher didn't say it was going to be bad. The teacher just didn't agree. They didn't say, that's definitely going to be bad. I just don't want you to do it. But I support you no matter what. But the important thing is that you check with your body. And you check with your teacher. And you check with your mother. And you check with your friends. It doesn't mean you do what they say. It just means you really ask them and you invite them into your life. You check with Buddha. You check with bodhisattvas. You ask them. This is okay. Sometimes, if you really ask them sincerely, they say, yes. And sometimes they say, no.

[77:24]

The Buddha asked the earth, and the earth said, yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. If the earth had said no, maybe he would have moved. It didn't in that case. If the whole earth says no, you say, listen, don't do it. Usually it's not that simple. Same thing with people, body, trees, everything. Practice together with all beings. And ceremonially act that by talking to people as though you unilaterally decided what you're going to do. Learn to say, I'm thinking of doing this, what do you think? Rather than, I'm going to do this. And I'm telling you, but this is just information. You have no say. And most people say, well, please don't talk about it. I'd rather not hear about it than have you come and shove it on my throat. This is not really sharing. Why don't you just exclude me?

[78:26]

I don't want to go through this. But actually, when you do talk to them, then you get that feedback and you say, oh, sorry. So it's still maybe better to talk to people in that closed, uncooperative, tutorial way than just not talk to them at all. Because then at least they can give you feedback then. like crying, you know, and feeling really hurt or being very angry, to help you realize there's something uncooperative about the way I did that. So it's still maybe better to talk to people in that closed, uncooperative, dictatorial way than just not talk to them at all, because then at least they can give you feedback then, like crying, and feeling really hurt or being very angry to help you realize there's something uncooperative about the way I did that.

[79:28]

Yes? I was thinking about doing the one-day script on Saturday. You were thinking about doing it? Yes, and I wondered what you thought about that. I think so. Well, it would be beneficial about it. Well, I get to sit with Pardon? Her question was, she was thinking of doing a one-day sitting this Saturday at this place called Hermitage, and then I asked her if she thought it would be beneficial, and then she said yes, and I asked her what benefit it would be, and now she's telling me what benefit it's going to be, she thinks. ...was that you would do what? Be with people. Be with people, yeah. Yeah, be with people, sit. Maybe help them sit. Support their sitting.

[80:31]

And give them a chance to support you. I think that might be beneficial, yeah. I agree. Please come. But still. Did you pay her? Did I pay her? I did pay her, yes. So anyway, that was an easy one. Sometimes they're easy, but you can't be sure, so you better not ask. And I have a lot of people who grew up in situations where they learned if they ask certain people, especially their daddies or mommies, and then if their daddy disagrees, either they can't do it, or if they do do it, they're like kicked out of the house. They have to leave home, or even... So then you just learn, don't ask, because they might say no. If you don't want to do something, then ask, doesn't matter. But if you want to do something, don't ask. So a lot of people come with that history, so it's very hard for them to start sharing their Buddhist practice with the teachers that they came to practice with.

[81:39]

Teachers might either force them to do what the teacher wants them to do, or punish them or reject them, if they won't do what the teacher says. So they have trouble start bringing these things up. But again, what I say is you don't have to do what I say of sharing the practice. And you can share with the practice and disagree with me all the time. But you can also agree with me and not share the practice. A lot of people are doing great stuff all the time and they never talk to me about it. And they act like they think they're practicing all by themselves. And I totally agree. They're not really doing the practice together because they don't bring it up. Dangerous to bring it up. Things get complicated. And sometimes a person might actually support you, but somehow you're not sure that they do, and so on.

[82:39]

Yes? I was thinking about your social impulses in terms of regular dialogue and sitting for long periods of time where you feel like your social skills are positively, beneficially affected. Do I think that your social skills are positively benefited by you sitting a lot? I think that I think that the ceremony the ceremony with the ceremony I'm going to see the teacher they go together for example so one of the ways to test whether you're sitting practice is developing your social skills is to go also have social skills ceremonies so those two ceremonies go together ceremony is sitting and the ceremony you're going to visit the teacher so some people think they're doing really well in the ceremonial sitting part and they go to see the teacher and then they feel like they're not doing so well.

[83:49]

And the teacher says also, you're not doing very well. The sitting seems to be bad for you. It seems to be making you really egocentric and selfish and so on and so forth. And then how do you handle that? Can you relax with that? Can you make a commitment to go talk to somebody who talks to you like that? Or maybe you start sitting, and when you start sitting, you start noticing even more than before how selfish you are and how judgmental and unappreciative you are. But noticing how you feel about people in quiet sitting helps you be more skillful socially. Because now you're getting in touch with all these bad feelings you have about people, which usually you're just not even aware of, and you just act them out. You know, and everybody gets devastated, but you don't even notice what you're doing. Oh my God! what did I do? I mean, I did a terrible thing. And then you go talk to the teacher, and you tell the teacher, and the teacher says, what was the matter with that?

[84:52]

And you realize you didn't say the whole story, and then you say it, and you just go, oh my God, that's amazing that you did that. So the... not develop, or rather they might develop in such a way that First of all, you start noticing how unskillful and unwholesome your social life is when you sit. A lot of people don't know they're angry, agitated until they sit quietly. And then they realize they're very impatient, very angry. They're just really shocked to find out. what's going on. And that's another reason why we have to practice together, because you find out other people are also finding out that they're unskillful, too. The most unskillful person in the world, there's some other ones, too, which you already know about. But that they're in the Zen center might be surprising you. You might think, I'm the only one in the Zen center that's got any problems, but then you're not.

[85:57]

We all have We have to become aware of our unskillfulness. And sitting helps us. But it's not enough. You have to also enact ceremonially, formally, enact doing the sitting together. And then that's stuff. Like who you're sitting next to, comparing yourself to them. This kind of stuff brings out lots of social material. Anyway, it's a little bit past. Maybe we should stop. Thank you very much. You said you want to talk to me, yes?

[87:08]

Yes. Yes, so do you want to talk to me? Do you know how to do that? called, am I adjusting? Yeah, I'm going to... I just changed from a...

[87:36]

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