patience, his generosity. I had the thought that the whole practice period should send a card to Berkeley Zen Center. I think we should really do this, thanking them for the loan of their abbot for three months. I'd also like to thank our head priest, the head of practice, Kosho. He's been helping me a lot. I go over to cabin 1B a lot and he goes, oh, where do I stand? When do I bow? He's been very patient with me. He has answers. Or if I'm just spazzing utterly, he just goes, there, there. It's very comforting. I would also like to acknowledge the help of two people who aren't here, although they're very much here with me in spirit, my Dharma brothers, Eric Green and Charlie Piccorni, who helped me out a bit in my researches.

[01:12]

When Linda and I were on interim break, we went to Houston and visited with Galen Godwin, and I was telling Galen, oh, you know, I'm trying to read the Mahayana Sutras like Mel told me to and, you know, I'm in my fashion at my own speed and it's going along sort of okay." And she just looked me right in the eye and said, you don't have to be a scholar. That was very liberating. Since then I've enjoyed studying Buddhism a lot more. So I'd like to talk about a koan, a public case from the Blue Cliff Record, case number 78, which I guarantee every person in this room has got some foreknowledge, some introduction, some familiarity with this koan.

[02:20]

I guarantee it. Case 78, 16 bodhisattvas go in to bathe. In olden times, there were 16 bodhisattvas. When it was time for monks to wash, the bodhisattvas filed in to bathe. Suddenly, they awakened to the basis of water. All of you Chan worthies, how will you understand their saying, subtle feeling reveals illumination, and we have achieved the station of sons and daughters of Buddha. To realize this, you too must be extremely piercing and penetrating." So, again, case. In olden times, there were 16 bodhisattvas. When it was time for monks to wash, the bodhisattvas filed in to bathe.

[03:21]

Suddenly, they awakened to the basis of water. All of you Chan worthies, how will you understand their saying, subtle feeling reveals illumination, and we have achieved the station of sons and daughters of Buddha. To realize this, you too must be extremely piercing and penetrating." So, I was right, wasn't I? because we've all been to the bathhouse. And out at the altar in the bathhouse, there's a thingy with Bhadrapala's name on it and a little picture of Bhadrapala and the 16 Bodhisattvas all getting in the hot plunge together. The Blue Cliff Record, you know, was compiled by Setsho in Chinese, I think. And also later, the commentaries were written by Yuan Wu, in Japanese I think, Engo.

[04:26]

He was the person who lived at the temple where the blue cliff was. So, Yuan Wu's commentary, he says, at the Surangama assembly, Bajrapala and the 16 Bodhisattvas all practiced pure conduct and each related the basis on which he had experienced the dharmagate of perfect pervasiveness. This is numbered as one among 25 kinds of perfect pervasiveness. So, this story is from the Surangama Sutra. not to be confused with the Surangama Samadhi Sutra, which we studied a little bit in the spring, the winter 01 practice period. The Surangama Sutra is very important to Zen school and my Dharma brother Eric tells me actually it's apocryphal. in the sense that it was written in China.

[05:29]

It's a Chinese sutra, but presented as teaching from India. So it's all Indian names and, you know, Buddha and the assembly and so forth, but actually written in China. So, indeed, there's this section where all these bodhisattvas, one by one, tell the story of how they attained enlightenment. and through the various senses and also through various mental formations. And Bhadrapala's story is attaining through the sense, the agency of the sense of touch, the touch of the water. It says here, in this translated by Liu Guan Yu, the same person who was responsible for the Chan and Zen series that Sojourner Roshi is using to teach the Hokyo Zamai. He translates, Bhadrapala, who was with sixteen companions who were all great bodhisattvas, rose from his seat, prostrated himself with his head at the feet of the Buddha and declared, When the Buddha with an awe-inspiring voice appeared in the world, I heard of the Dharma and left home.

[06:47]

At the time of bathing, I followed the rules and entered the bathroom. Suddenly, I awakened to the causal water which cleansed neither dirt nor body. Thereby, I felt at ease and realized the state of nothingness. As I had not forgotten my former practice, when I left home to follow the Buddha in my present life, I achieved the state beyond study. The Buddha named me Bhadrapala because of my awakening to wonderful touch and my realization of the rank of a son of Buddha. As the Buddha asked now about the best means of perfection, to me, touch is the best according to my personal experience." So, that's very interesting to me. And Although, I want to add, it doesn't say this in the sutra, but at the same time, Bhadrapala and his 16 companions were in the hot plunge. Over on the women's side, Bhadrapalina and her 16 companions, they were having the exact same thing happened over there.

[07:56]

It's not, but it's an apocryphal sutra. So, you know, it's okay. I can add that. So, why I like this koan so much is a kind of two-fold reason. The first is because it's about water. They awaken through the agency of water. And that speaks to me because water is a kind of a teaching that Shogun Roshi uses a lot. And I kind of think of that as his way baby turtles swimming out into the ocean, ring any bells? And there's tons, tons, I could spend the rest of this talk talking about various images of water that appear in Buddhism, in Buddhist teaching. When we take refuge in Buddha, we say, immersing body and mind deeply in the way.

[09:06]

We say, I take refuge in Dharma, entering deeply the merciful ocean of Buddha's way. Just recently, while running the wake-up bell, I saw on the kitchen altar, this little notice appeared. It says, ryu sui saki wo arazo wa zu, which translates, running water does not strive to be the foremost. I thought, wow, that's great. It's right on time. And it makes me think of Mel's teaching a lot. He always says, water is seeking the lowest place. Water flows to the lowest place just naturally. I think they say we are like 98% water held together by a few amino acids and minerals.

[10:08]

But maybe for the purposes of this koan, it should be 100% water. There's another story in the Suram Gama Sutra. I haven't read it all yet, but this other story was just too far out. for me not to include. But I'm not going to talk about it too much. I'm just going to read it and put it out there for you to chew on. Chandra Prabha, Bodhisattva, then rose from his seat, prostrated himself with his head at the feet of the Buddha and declared, I still remember that in the remotest of eons, countless as the sands in the Ganges, there was a Buddha called Varuna who appeared in the world and taught Bodhisattvas to contemplate the element of water in order to enter into the state of samadhi.

[11:12]

This method consists in looking into the body wherein all watery elements do not by nature suppress one another, using at first subjects of meditation, first tears and snot, and then saliva, secretion, blood, urine, and excrement, and then reversing the order, thereby perceiving that this element of water in the body does not differ from that of the fragrant oceans that surround the pure lands of the Buddhas situated beyond our world. When I achieved this contemplation, I succeeded in realizing only the sameness of the element of water everywhere, but failed to relinquish my view of the body. I was then a bhikshu practicing jhāna, and when my disciple peeped into the room, he saw that it was filled entirely with clear water, without anything else. As he was an ignorant boy, he picked up a broken tile threw it into the water with a splash, gazed curiously, and left.

[12:15]

When I came out of my dhyana state, I suddenly felt pain in my heart, as if I had the same trouble which Shariputra had with the wicked demon. I thought, since I have realized arhatship, I should be free from all causal ailments. Why today, all of a sudden, have I pain in my heart? Is it not a sign of my backsliding? When the boy returned and related what he had seen and done during my meditation, I said, when next you see water in my room, open the door, enter the water, and take away the broken tile. The boy obeyed, for when I again entered the jnana state, he saw the same broken tile in the water. He then opened the door and removed the tile. When I came out of jnana, my pain had vanished. Cool. Another image of water in Buddhism that's very dear to my heart and my mother's is in Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind.

[13:36]

when Suzuki Roshi talks about Nirvana, the waterfall. Basically, I haven't brought that book with me, but basically he says he saw the waterfall in Yosemite that's very tall and the water starts out at the top, comes tumbling over and falls so slowly, these little drops of water look like they're suspended in air, they're falling so slowly. And he thought, you know, maybe those little drops of water might experience some pain of separation on their way down, on the way falling through the air. And well, it's a lovely analogy. I think that's something that we can all relate to quite easily. at the beginning of this practice period had quite a lot of water falling out of the sky.

[14:43]

And I was contemplating the rain a lot. And I formed the image, a story, of sort of a raindrop mandala, if you will. say all the rain plummeting out of the sky into the ocean, the flat ocean, the jewel mirror samadhi ocean. The set of all raindrops that's one millimeter away from hitting the ocean's surface. Take that set of raindrops as humanity. Because we're all equally close to death.

[15:51]

What I'm saying here is we're all going to die. So actually, we're all one breath or one heartbeat away from death, whether we think so or not. So plummeting through the sky, what is it? 32 feet per second per second, allowing for wind resistance, splat. All the ones that are exactly one millimeter away from the ocean surface, splat. That's humanity. And in that instant before, one millimeter above the ocean surface, that's when this raindrop over here says, oh, that raindrop over there is so shapely and smooth. And I'm all full of bits of dust and fluff. I'm the loneliest raindrop. Splat. This is our human condition.

[16:57]

This is our suffering. So maybe the story of Bhadrapala and the 16 Bodhisattvas and Bhadrapalina and the other 16 Bodhisattvas is just 16 raindrops go into the outdoor plunge. Another 16 raindrops go into the other outdoor plunge. This is available to us at any time, as Sojourn was pointing out in his class. I... Momentito, because I promised to end on time. I vow to end on time. I am also very interested in this statement of a subtle feeling reveals illumination and we have achieved the station of sons and daughters of Buddha.

[18:03]

Somebody once wrote me a note saying, thank you for your practice especially in the subtle realms. I used to work with this old horse trainer, a real character. Warren McGrath, beware the wrath of McGrath. And sometimes he would like be trying to hoodwink somebody in a really ridiculous way. Just, you know, a game or just something, some game he'd be running, you know. And I wouldn't buy into it. I wouldn't be playing along with him. He'd go, geez, Greg, you're about as subtle as a train wreck. So sometimes I thought there's some truth to that. But I'm always on guard for the cherished self-image. So we should watch out for stories that we make up about ourselves and stick to, you know. So you say you're a big eater and so because of that you're going to eat yourself sick on some occasion and so forth.

[19:12]

So I was curious about that, you know, and I wanted to investigate that some more. Yuan Wu, in his commentary, he said, they said, subtle feeling reveals illumination and we have achieved the station of sons and daughters of Buddha. The subtle feeling is illumination. Once you awaken to the subtle feeling, then you achieve the station of sons of Buddha, that is, you are in the stage of Buddhahood. Subtle feeling is not ordinary feeling and feeler, where contact is considered feeling and separation is not. This really opened up for me in the last class Sojourner Rush taught in the dining room when he was talking about direct perception.

[20:15]

This is what they're talking about. The Rinzai Zen master Hakuin also wrote a whole series of commentaries about the koans in the Blue Cliff Record. And he had this to say. He said, the manifestation of the ungraspable totality of water, dirt, and body. I'll say that again. The manifestation of the ungraspable totality of water, dirt, and body is called subtle feeling revealing illumination. Manifestation comes from the conjunction of feeler and felt. So, three days ago, during breakfast, when it was time to wash our bowls, the server came by and poured some hot water into my Buddha bowl.

[21:24]

Hot water, water. And I took it, and put my Setsu in, and holding my hand over the bowl, getting ready to bow, feeling the steam coming off the hot water, touching my palm. But it wasn't like bowl, water, steam, palm. at all. It was more like an ungraspable totality of bowl, water, steam, palm, heat. And it wasn't like the hand holding the bowl was something out there at the end of the arm.

[22:28]

I think that's kind of important. It makes me think of when I first started coming to Zen Center back in the 70s, Zen Tatsu Richard Baker used to say that all the time. He'd say, if you're used to thinking of your feet as something down there, try to stop doing that, basically. He said that several times. He encouraged people to stop thinking of your feet as something down there. And the other thing I like about this koan is the fact that the 16 Bodhisattvas all wake up together. When Buddha Shakyamuni attained enlightenment under the bow tree, he's reported to have said, wonderful, wonderful, all living beings possess the wisdom and the virtuous sign of the Tathagata, but they do not realize this because of their attachment to desires and illusions.

[23:51]

All living beings. This, to me, is the essence of the Mahayana. In the Lotus Sutra, which we studied last practice period, Buddha begins by giving predictions of enlightenment to first this one, then that one, then that one, then a few more, then a few more, and then pretty soon it's everybody. Everyone is predicted enlightenment. And that's the message of the Lotus Sutra is we're all enlightened together. or not at all. This is the Bodhisattva way. The idea of individual enlightenment is just an idea. It's a magic city. It's a comforting illusion. Anyway, that's my opinion. Duan Wu, again, in the Blue Cliff Record, says, I love this.

[25:03]

Why did the 16 Bodhisattvas awaken at the same time? Because the ancients practiced together and experienced together, awakened together and understood together. That really speaks to me. And again, I feel like this is my teacher's way. It's why he likes workdays so much. We're all working together. We're all practicing together. Taking our activity in the Zen Do, out of the Zen Do, all together. And something else that really spoke to me about practicing together was Linda and I, we picked up this book, Timeless Spring. If you see this in a bookstore, snatch it up.

[26:05]

Very hard to find. Black Oak Books wanted $35 for this paperback in perfect condition, paid it cheerfully. It's really quite amazing. I really enjoyed looking at it and That's how I found out about Furong, or as we say in our lineage, Fuyodokai, Song Dynasty Zen master, Chan master, very important in our lineage. And he lived from 1043 to 1118, the so-called literary period of Zen. According to Andy Ferguson's book, he practiced certain Taoist arts, including fasting, with the aim of gaining immortality. He later abandoned such practices and studied with a Zen teacher at Shutai Temple. So I made this whole storyboard in my mind about, you know, when somebody writes a graphic

[27:13]

He's just like this serious, gaunt Daoist student. Very serious. And he sees these Zen people, Chan people, like all of you. Very interesting. What are they up to? What have they got? Here I am studying this Daoism and cultivating this cinnabar field and it's getting me deadly. This is terrible. These people are really interesting. And then the Chan people would be like, should we tell him? The secret of immortality? You want to know? Just don't attach to this skin bag. In 1104, The Emperor, Wei Zong, heard about Fu Rong's very strong practice and he tried to present him with the honored purple robe of the Emperor and the title, Zen Master Samadhi Illumination, which Fu Rong refused.

[28:35]

Again, I have this whole story like a Lenny Bruce routine. The Emperor Wei Zong is talking to his attendants back in the palace. What's with that putz? Here I am standing there with the purple robe. He refuses it? What an asshole! You don't understand. Wei Zong, you know, his attendants try to placate him. Wei Zong, Wei Zong, please. It's like this. Good natured schmuck. He can't accept love. No, he was a very, very serious man, and one of these virtuosos, let's face it, which is why he became so pinnacle of practice, so important in the lineage. And indeed, he didn't go where the emperor asked him to go to practice. He went off by himself to Mount Furong. where he preached this famous sermon called The Standards of Jetavana, which impressed me so much, which he talks about practicing together.

[29:47]

See, I was getting somewhere with this, which I will read some of. It is not my practice to take from or add to a monastery. How could I sit around wasting the community property and abruptly forget the bequest of past sages? Now I am following the example of the ancients in acting as abbot. Together with you all, we have decided not to go down the mountain anymore. not to go to feasts, not to send preachers to collect contributions, but just take account of what this monastery's lands produce and divide it into 360 equal parts, using one part each day, not increasing or decreasing according to people. If there's enough rice, then make cooked rice. If not enough for rice, make gruel. If there's not enough for gruel, we'll make rice water. New arrivals for interviews will be given hot water only.

[30:50]

No snack will be given. Only one tea hall will be set up. Nonetheless, we're still going to have a personal town trip on the 7th. Because I'm not an idiot. I don't want a riot on my hands. No, I made up that last part. That's not in there. That's a long setup for a joke. But I have a point, because when I read this Standards of Jetavana, which is a really wonderful sermon, I felt like that's how we practice at Tassajara. And I... It's not about emaciating yourself or doing ascetic practices. Practice happens in here. Sorry. In here.

[31:52]

In here. In there. All of us together. Very easy for me, in my mind, to reconcile rice, water, and personal town trip. This is how we practice. Tassajara is Tassajara. Very profound statement. My job as a shuso, I've been told, is to encourage all of you in your practice. When I first planned to come to Tassajara, I asked Sojourn Roshi, what shall I do? How shall I practice at Tassajara? And he said four words. just follow the schedule that's all and it's really it's all about following the schedule with our intention and our wholehearted effort Sabrina asked me not too long ago how it was for me to run the wake-up bell and my answer kind of surprised me

[33:16]

I said, it's really sustaining. So I was glad she asked because I was like, oh, it's really sustaining because I don't have to think about in the morning whether I want to run the wake-up bell or not. Right? I just go do it. And then I thought, well, that's just like Zazen. And the Han goes, we just come to the Zen zone. We don't have to think about whether we want this zazen or not. This is very good practice. It's how we do. Doing pretty good. I'm going to finish with a little more Fuyo Dōkai. This is from Shobo Genzo. Shobo Genzo Gyōji, which means continuous practice or continuous observance of the precepts. which is basically just a whole series of wonderful stories about practice.

[34:23]

I was telling Danny and Dion about Gyoji and, you know, all these wonderful stories. And they said, well, is it like koans? And I said, no, it's just stories from our ancestral records, from our family tree, wonderful stories. And Dion said, I wonder what kind of stories we'll be leaving for future generations. I thought, what a great question. Anyway, here's a little more Fuyō Dōkai, or Dōgen quoting Fuyō Dōkai. Still more vigorous activity surrounds us in abundance. There is no scarcity of beautiful scenery. The flowers know how to laugh, and the birds know how to sing. The timber horses whinny, and the stone bulls gallop. Beyond the sky, the greenness of the mountains fades. Beside our ears, the babbling spring loosens its voice.

[35:25]

On mountain peaks, monkeys are squeaking. dew moistens the moon in the sky. In the woods, cranes call. The wind swirls around the pines in the clear light of dawn. When the spring breezes blow, withered trees sing dragon songs. The autumn leaves shrivel and the frozen forest scatters flowers. On the precious stone steps are laid patchworks of moss. People's faces have the mild air of haze and mist. Sounds are still. Situations are just as they are. In the sheer peace and solemnity, there is nothing to pursue." With due respect, fellow practitioners, may each of you be diligent. Take good care of yourselves. Time for a few questions.

[36:30]

Okay. Oh, Sonia. The way I see it is our Zen ancestors over the centuries have been working really hard at figuring out how to bring us to awakening. And they've hit on the system that works pretty good. Of course, we're always Oh, each generation is always tweaking with it. This session schedule is not quite the same as session schedule from last practice period and so forth.

[37:39]

But basically, we have this means, this skillful means, upaya, where we have wake up bell, Han, bell and dindle, so forth. We all sit down together, practice silent illumination together, drop body and mind together. Bell rings, get up, do the next thing. Don't have to think about it. It's marvelous. We should all be, well, I don't say should, I won't say should. Excuse me. I'm very grateful for this opportunity. That we've set this up.

[38:41]

Like Furong and his assembly on Mount Furong. Just doing this practice together. The schedule facilitates this. Yes? In spite of all of our varying capabilities and what we're all going through, what does following the schedule mean to you? I'm so glad you asked that. I was actually going to put that in the talk a little bit. Oh, but I kind of didn't know how to get there and I thought I probably had enough. But that's been on my mind. Oh, gee. Because I didn't decide to put it in the talk, I didn't, there's this book that a dear friend of ours loaned us called, maybe Linda can help me, The Mysterious Affair of the Dog in the Night, something like that?

[39:52]

The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time, right? And the author is? Brit author, yes, some Brit author. It's a good book. I highly recommend it. Well, highly recommend, I don't know, but I found it very enjoyable. We'd be happy to loan it to you. It's about this boy who is brilliant, he's a genius actually, but he has this syndrome, this kind of mental syndrome where sense information overwhelms him. There's a name for it, but I can't remember that either. Asperger's syndrome. Thank you. Asperger's syndrome. A form of autism. goes to this school called School for Children with Special Needs. And the book is written in first person, from the first person voice of this boy.

[40:59]

And the boy says, well, I go to this school for special needs, but everybody has special needs. He says, When you think about it, and then he starts naming all these people and so-and-so special needs. My dad, he has special needs. He has to take these pills with his, you know, so he doesn't get indigestion. And when you think about it, everybody has special needs. It's just, it's not immediately apparent. Everybody is practicing the way they practice. Full faith in that. So, the schedule is there for us to work with, and we all work with it the best we can.

[42:02]

There are those who come early to most periods of Zazen, and there are those who miss some periods of Zazen, and... As our abbess, Jiko Venduruth-Katz... Oh, by the way... Sorry. Aside, in my way-seeking mind talk, when I said story time with Lynn Ruth Cutts, I hope nobody thought that I was making fun of her, because I wasn't, and I really love her so much. I was her Jisha last practice period, and I have so many precious memories of being her Jisha. So, glad I mentioned that. She said in a Dharma talk, don't compare your inside to somebody else's outside. I think that's, she said that was from AA. That's something they say.

[43:07]

And I think that's really important for us all to remember. You cannot. You have no way of knowing how someone else is practicing. You just don't know. Hello, Stephen. I told you I wasn't going to go there. Stephen said, how do I understand the tile in the heart? in the story that I read in the Suram Gama Sutra. Actually, the tile was in the room full of water and when the boy, the boy acolyte, threw the tile into the room full of water, subsequently the teacher felt a pain in his heart.

[44:22]

You know, it's maybe the flaw in the mirror. The fly in the ointment. That little thing that we just can't let go of. You know, that thing. Yeah. I think we've all been there. That's what it means to me. That, you know, The essence of Dukkha, there's always something. There's always something. And maybe that's Buddha. Because in this Baha world, if everything was perfect, we couldn't practice. That's what I think.

[45:31]

Sure. We all need each other's help. I don't say it's a bad thing. I say it's a fantasy, a pleasant fantasy, but that if, if, the biggest word in the dictionary, everything is not perfect. Rick, are you asking if you're the last Bodhisattva across?

[46:48]

Carolyn, what does it mean? The world must be perfect before Rick can go on. Is that so, Rick? It is. Anyway, that's what I believe. And the world is perfect. It has to be. So that's a big koan, eh? That's in the Vimalakirti Sutra. But I'm not being the greatest scholar, I can't exactly quote you chapter and verse, but basically, one of them, is it Suguni? Shariputra? Probably Shariputra, he's always the fall guy. He says, you know, this world is so terrible with all its rocks and things and painful stuff and icky stuff and Buddha puts his big toe down something and then shows him what it really is.

[48:03]

And he can't take it. Ah! Put it back! Put it back! He can't stand seeing it perfect. That's a really interesting story. Yo. Hi. Hi. I really like following the schedule. Your mind's not choosing or your mood's not choosing what you do in the next moment. But one out of every five days, there's no such support. So which of my delusions should I follow on such a given day? Maybe we should go for a hike. It's a problem for some people. Sometimes, you know, what do I do now? I know what you mean. You know, for some people, personal day is way too short.

[49:05]

And for some people, you actually experience a little pain around it at times, you know? Or like, it can be like a personal day meal in the dining room or a or in guest season in the student meeting area. You know, it's like junior high school again. You got your tray. Who am I going to sit with? Is it alright to sit over there? If I sit down here by myself, will anyone sit with me? Yeah. Well, you know, be open to the experiences. Enjoy yourself on a personal day. Have your bag of lunch. That's in the schedule. Who's that down there? It's Jackie. I think we all have that problem.

[50:50]

I usually say, I want to say, Ah, I should say what sometimes works for me is I will say, am I too sick to go to the vendo? And am I laying here tossing the question back and forth in my mind? And if I have this leisure to toss the question back and forth in my mind, Maybe I should just be going, because when I'm really too sick, there's no question. Sometimes that helps me. Hello, Dion. Hello. Kiyosaku?

[52:04]

Wake up stick? My opinion of the practice. Well, yeah, I'm not sure I have an opinion of the practice. I'll make an opinion. It's another skill for me. It helps us to wake up. I know that I find it very invigorating. As someone who practices with pain a lot in Zazen, I always, well usually, I experience like a flood of relief and probably endorphins. And it helps me. It helps me to keep going. And for those who are too drowsy, it puts you up.

[53:05]

So fresh feeling sometimes. Yeah. When I first started coming to the event center in the 70s in City Center, there was always two people walking up and down with the stick. And then you would whether you ask for it or not. That happened to me once. I was spacing out and it was like, tap, tap. I was like, okay, it's a fair cop. But we don't do that. I think that's a wise decision. For me, I like it. Yes, practice with tired, practice with tired, practice with awake.

[54:19]

Why are we trying to attain an alert state? Well, I think we should be awake. Yeah, I think that's a good thing. Buddhism means, translates, actually, as awake-ism, you know? This is the religion of waking up. Well, there are other periods of dazen when we don't care, and then you can practice with the entire den.

[55:30]

No, it's true. When you leave Tassajara, there's not going to be someone following you down the street with a stick. We come to Tassajara to do this practice together, you know, this is a very special set of circumstances. And in this practice period, that's one of the circumstances. I don't have a standard of full participation. I hope that's what I was trying to get across in my response to Keith's question. Oh, well, I'm very sorry for that. No, I don't mean that at all.

[56:41]

I don't. I love Chris. Well, this is something we can talk about sometime, but I'm a little aware of the time, and I'm a little worried that we're going to start off into the big, long dialogue about Kyosaku.

[57:50]

So I don't necessarily think we should go there given that I should have finished about 10 minutes ago. Cindy. to leave this conversation open if we're going to continue to use it, knowing that there's other feelings that I know. So it hasn't happened at a group level where we've talked about it. So maybe it actually is kind of important in my mind right now, hearing these concerns. And I don't know whether it's going to be useful. Kathy? Well, this is something that's come up more than once.

[58:58]

It's an ongoing discussion in the Zen Center. I do think it's I don't. I think I'm just going to leave it. Yes, Richard. I'm impressed by the number of people who went.

[60:02]

Voting with Gashel. Yeah, it takes 20 minutes to get around the agenda once. Yes, Pedro. And we're thinking of a way. Yes. Yes, the answer is yes. Let's quit.

[60:50]

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