I love to change the truth about the darkness of the world. Good morning. Before I begin my talk, I want to let you know that there's been a slight change in the schedule. we're going to have the dedication of our Jizo figure after a work period. And then we'll have tea. And then we'll have a couple of periods of Zazen to end. I think that's a better order. It's nice to have the ceremony and then have tea afterward.

[01:04]

It makes a little more sense. So this ceremony is to dedicate the Jizo figure that Rebecca made, I don't know how long ago, 10 years ago? 10 years ago. With the thought of putting it someplace, installing it someplace here. And it's been waiting for a long time for us to get the grounds in order, actually. So we finally have a little order in the back, a garden set up in the back near the Dōksōn hut. And so we finally put the figure in there. I'm sure most of you have seen it. So this is kind of a long-awaited moment. And Jizo, as you may know, is Bodhisattva, originally in India, Kshitigarbha.

[02:21]

I don't want to talk too much about it because Rebecca is going to give a little talk at the ceremony. in Japan became called Jizo and is a very popular figure in Japan, popular Bodhisattva. Very simple features and dressed like a monk, nothing ostentatious or overdressed about Jizo. And sometimes the features are very vague on the face. And these statues are set outside often, and the weather wears them down until the features become almost indistinguishable.

[03:26]

And only their bodily presence becomes very strong. But Jizo is the protector of children, actually, specifically children who have died very young, but also children in general, and also the patron of travelers. So the statues are put out on the roadside often, and in the temples, they're very prominent. And at certain times of the year, certain festivals, they're given, people put bibs on them, red bibs. When I was in Japan a couple of weeks ago, we did, I helped Utsu do a service for

[04:32]

many old ladies who are gathered at the shrine of Jizo shrine. And we did a lot of chanting, offered a lot of incense. It was quite nice. So Jizo Bodhisattva has this feeling. And it's nice to have that kind of expression and presence here. So that will be this afternoon, we'll have the ceremony. And I will, let's see, Rebecca will give a little talk. about Jizo and her project. And I'll do an eye-opening ceremony where I paint in the eyes of the figure in order to bring it to life.

[05:44]

And then offer incense and we'll do some chanting. What I was asked to talk about was chanting. Somebody said, will you please talk about chanting? And in the past, when I talked about chanting, I used to talk about how to chant. But I've come to realize that that's not very helpful. It's a little helpful, but I've come to realize that the main thing is not so much how we chant, but all the elements that go into chanting are what make the chanting work.

[06:50]

It's not just chanting. You can be a very strong chanter with a good voice, and if all the elements aren't working together, it doesn't matter. So in a service, chanting in service depends on how the bells are played, how the mokugyo is played, the pitch that the kokyo sets, and the general enjoyment that we have when we chant. These are, I think, the important elements. If all these elements are in place and working together, well, then the chanting comes out without effort. This morning I felt as close as we get to perfect chanting. So when I thought about giving some chanting instruction or criticism, I thought, well, there's nothing to criticize.

[08:02]

Sometimes people feel this and sometimes they don't. Some people say, that was really good. It felt great. And someone else will say, oh, is that so? I don't know. I thought it was just like it always is. So some people are aware and some people aren't. Awareness is a big help. It's like food, you know. Sometimes I'll eat something. That was great, wasn't it? Someone else would say, oh yeah? What do we have? So I felt that this morning's chanting was really quite good and there was nothing I could criticize about it. The pitch was just right. It wasn't too low. wasn't too high, everybody could easily chant at that pitch. And I really feel the pitch is probably the most important factor in good chanting practice, or good chanting.

[09:15]

When you have a pitch that is just right and everyone can easily attain that pitch together. Then the chanting just flows. It's effortless and enjoyable. Chanting should be enjoyable. If it's not enjoyable, there's something wrong. If you're not enjoying chanting, there's something wrong. So, what's wrong? So another vital factor is the rhythm. When we chant without the use of the Mukugyo, our rhythm usually is pretty good.

[10:26]

But as soon as we introduce something like a leader, the Mercugio, then it's easy for the chanting to get too fast or too slow or uneven because we're following some single person. When we don't use the Mercugio, we just listen to each other more and join with each other more. But when the Mercugio enters into it, that's another factor and we listen to that. So the person who is playing the mokugyo has to be able to keep a steady rhythm for a long period of time. Often, the biggest problem that the mokugyo player has is the tendency to slow down. And as soon as you start slowing down, the person doesn't realize they're slowing down.

[11:33]

They think they're just holding a steady beat, but they're starting to dream about something, or some thought is in their head. They think they're doing it, but it's slowing down. And you keep going, and pretty soon you keep stretching, you're chanting, and you wonder why you're working so hard. and taking bigger steps to get to where you have to go. So, this is the biggest problem. And then, you know, if you have a low pitch and a Mokugyo that's slowing down, it's just spiraling. And then you hate chanting. Oh, I wish this was over. When's this going to end? No fun. No fun at all. So Mukugyo, when you play the Mukugyo, you start out slowly enough so that everyone can join in.

[12:35]

And as soon as everyone is together, then you pick up the tempo. If you don't pick up the tempo, even though it's steady, it has the feeling of slowing down, or is in danger of slowing down. So, to pick up the tempo, little by little, so that it's somewhat imperceptible, but it has the feeling of gaining strength as it goes along, so that you feel that as you go along, the Makugyo is under you and underneath, not so much leading you, but it's underneath, supporting you, supporting your chanting. The koan, of playing the mokugyo is that you have to lead and follow at the same time. So often the mokugyo player feel that they have to lead and this gives them almost a heart attack because they're out there with this thing

[13:47]

And they're very nervous, wondering if they're going to be able to do it okay. But as soon as you realize that all you have to do is listen, it's not a problem. It all depends on listening. The whole thing about chanting depends on your ear. As soon as you're in tune, attuned to everyone, It's not a problem, because you can follow and at the same time participate, supporting underneath. So it's not really a matter of just leading. If you're just leading, then you tend to get ahead of everyone, and people resent that. They say, I'm not going to do that. And you stop listening. And if you're only following, then you lose the vitality.

[14:56]

You have to follow and at the same time lead. And that's a koan. What does it mean to follow and lead at the same time? It means to give up your idea about what you want to do. and just completely immerse yourself in the activity. And it also depends on how the bells are timed. and the quality of the bell when it's rung. If the quality is too light, then the vitality drops. And if it's too hard, then it becomes too shrill and offensive.

[16:05]

So, quality of the sound should be matching the place in the chanting where we are. So you have to be very sensitive when you play the bell. If you're really attuned to what's happening, then you play the bell naturally. You have a good sound naturally. But a timid person has to put out a little more. And a bold person has to hold back some. So, it's a matter of finding the right place on each moment. A matter of finding your place with everyone, with what you're doing on each moment. And when everybody's working in that way together, the chanting becomes very enjoyable. And you like to do it.

[17:08]

And you come in and you feel good about it. And the timing of the bell is so important. Sometimes the timing has to be very subtly correct to intersect with the voice at the right time. If it's one beat off, then the whole thing is lost. And you don't know why. So the domans and the kokyos and the fukudo, it's an ongoing process of training to maintain these, be aware of these subtle points. And all this has to work together. And when it works together,

[18:09]

chanting comes natural. Chanting should be deep, but that doesn't mean low. Some people think when you chant deeply that your voice should be low, but that's not so. There's a whole range of pitch. Each one, whether you're chanting really high or really low, it still comes from here. It's important for the Kokyo to set a correct pitch. I think that's the most important thing. If it's too high, people will find their own pitch. And if it's too low, it tends to sink. So, you know, Tassahara, the chanting in Tassahara, I think, is abominable.

[19:13]

and very hard to correct. People love it. But it's kind of like a dirge. When Japanese chant, they chant in a very high voice, usually a pretty high voice, and the chanting flows easily. But the voice comes from here. It's not falsetto. It's true voice. Strong, very strong voice. But not real deep like the Tibetans. Tibetans have their own way. And I think that they developed a kind of idea at Tassajara that they should sound like Tibetans. I tried to correct them a lot of times, but they don't like that. They go along with it and then they revert back to their old ways. I think the chanting here is as good as anywhere I've heard.

[20:20]

And sometimes people come here from Tazahar and they say, oh yeah? When they hear the chanting. Gosh. So it's very good actually. I think that we work at it. And that's one reason why it's good. It isn't always good. Sometimes it falls off. But generally, I think we make a good effort. But I think those are the main points. To start out with a good pitch, and to play the Mukugyo, both leading and following at the same time. And to watch the subtle points of the bell. The bell should be inspiring. There's an old saying that every time you sound the bell, a Buddha is created. A Buddha comes forth.

[21:25]

The bell should have that feeling. Every time you play the bell, What's the best sound I can get out of this bell every single time you sound it? That's the approach to have. And then people feel inspired by the sound. So if we're not enjoying chanting, there's something wrong, we should, you know, Think about, well, what is it that's making it that way? And then bring it around to where we're having a good time. Do you have any questions? Maybe you could say something about intensity or Yes.

[23:05]

Whether doing it with your breath? Yeah. Do you time it when your breath goes out, for instance, one breath apart, or do you do anything like that? Oh, you mean like there are three bells? Yes. The timing of the three bells, I think, is when the first bell fades out just before it stops. Well, it's still ringing, but just as it's fading out, then you do the second one. And then you wait for the sound to fade out just before it stops and do the third one. So that's the way we used to do it. And then people started just hitting three bells, ding, ding, ding. But it has a much, you know, when you sit down So I kind of reintroduced doing it that way. But rather than doing it with the breath, I do it, I think it's best just to let the sound fade out.

[24:10]

I just want to answer this question first. What did you say? That's important. I was wondering if you would say something about volume and intensity of the chanting. Well, chanting I think feels best when it's strong. Some people just open their lips and kind of mouth it. But it's best if the chanting is But intensity depends on what everyone else is doing. So the main thing is to listen to everyone.

[25:14]

So hear as many people as you can. And then your voice, your own voice, will find the right intensity. If you try and create some intensity, and then just listen to yourself, you sometimes get too loud. You know, the people who chant real loud, they don't hear anybody else. So it's important to hear everyone else and also hear yourself. If you can hear yourself and hear everyone else at the same time, you know that that's the right intensity. And then there's a feeling of the whole. You know, everyone feels how they... and today's chanting may be different than tomorrow's or yesterday's. It depends on the mood and the weather and A lot of factors. So the main thing is to listen. If you listen, really listen, you'll probably be in the right place.

[26:19]

On the timekeeper's bell, at the end, hitting two bells or a pinhead. The timing. Oh, the timing of that? Yeah. Ding, ding. Sometimes it's ding, and then you're saying, when is the next thing coming? Ding, ding. I think that's good. Don't let it fade out before the next thing. Somebody else. Susan. Yeah, during the Bodhisattva ceremony, It was hard in the back here to hear the bell. It was hard in the front. It's hard to hear it in the front? The little bell. Sometimes the big bell overpowers the sound of the little bell. And so you have to be a little bold

[27:26]

But it takes, you know, practice. But also, that balance is important. And we just, the donor just has to work on that. You are the donor. You know, at the end, it seems like people just get lost when we come to that part about immersing body and mind. Mind deeply in the way. It's sort of like people are looking around and they go, well, how does this go? Yeah, they haven't memorized it, so they have to look at the sheet. But it feels like it just really, we have all this, it goes well, and then when we get to that part, people, they don't see how fast to do it. Also, they're bowing when they're saying this. at the same time. They're bowing, and they don't, you know, they don't, haven't quite memorized it, or maybe they remember part of it, but not the whole thing, you know.

[28:41]

And they're bowing, and they're legging in the sheet. So what would you suggest? Well, I was hoping you could suggest, though, Heidi, what piece we're supposed to chant then on that, because it just really slows down at that point. Well, I think that if people memorized it, I memorized each coming line on the way up to the line before. I had the sheet right by my head when I was on the bed. The first one I instead lived because I couldn't see it from where I was. But when I got down there, as I was coming up, I read the next line. I think we can have a little hook around our... A couple of things. Some time ago you encouraged us to pick up our chant sheets and we didn't know it and I think it's a feeling that

[29:45]

not wanting to, everyone wants to be a part of the group, and if someone hasn't memorized, they feel awkward. And I think your words at that time, I think it was a real chant, was encouraging to them, rather than having to sort of kind of glance to the side to find it. And similarly with that chant, I noticed also that everyone really wants to bow, and the idea of like holding a chant sheet for that last line as you're bowing might be a way of having a strong. I think so. There's nothing wrong with holding a chanting card in your hand and looking at it. What Ross was saying, in the old days, everybody held a chanting card whether they knew the chant by heart or not. And this kind of encouraged everybody to feel that they're in the same place. And I think there's nothing wrong with holding a chanting card. I do it myself. I have a hard time remembering things that I wrote.

[30:49]

So, you know, if you hold the chain of God and then you bow with it, put it down, bow, pick it up, you know, do it in a convenient way. Also, this bell is kind of small, and to actually get a big enough sound out of it, it's kind of overbearing.

[31:56]

It doesn't quite match the other bell. I have a bigger bell coming, I think, at the end of the year. It will have a very nice sound. Last year, I saw one Women came back from our practice in Japan. I remember that Monday morning Grace's comment that the chant over there is slow and here it felt like going down a freeway. And I'm just wondering what it feels like going down a regular road. Can we chant slowly and what it feels like? Well, I don't like to chant too slowly. I think to say that in Japan they do it this way is not quite right. Some people chant fast in Japan, some people chant slow in Japan. Actually, my teacher, Tatsugami Roshi, who was the Ino at AAG for 10 years and taught chanting, had his chanting pretty fast.

[33:04]

But then Suzuki Roshi said, well, you know, at AAG, They do all these memorial services in the morning, and everybody's trying to get through it. It's a big bit of breakfast. But I like the vitality of chanting. It doesn't have to be fast, but it should have some vigorousness to it. I think that's important. So fast or slow is not so much the point. The main thing is vitality. If it has vitality, it doesn't matter whether it's fast or slow. But usually when it's slow, it starts lacking vitality. So I tend to be on the quicker side. One more chance, should we try to practice being conscious or aware of each syllable that we're chanting.

[34:17]

In other words, as opposed to, I mean, it's possible to chant the notes in a minded way. And I notice that sometimes I chant the tabs in a minded way, and other times I make a greater effort to just be right there on each word. That's what you should be doing. Then it's zazen. Chanting is zazen. When you chant mindfully and carefully, you know, being with every syllable, then it's zazen. So chanting is zazen. And people say, well, you know, like, we should chant all these chants in English, you know, so we understand the words and all this, which is okay. Almost everything that we do, we chant in English as well as Japanese. Not everything. The Dharanis are not translated. But it doesn't matter, you know, what language it's in.

[35:20]

The main thing is how you chant. You have to trust that you're chanting something that's wholesome. Once you understand what the chant is about, you know, you feel okay, comfortable chanting it. So often chanting in a language other than English is more conducive to chanting because you don't have all these connecting words to deal with. And the chant has better rhythm, so it's much more enjoyable, you know, with the Mukugyo to chant the Heart Sutra in Japanese, because you don't have all these connecting words, and it's one syllable after the next. And we used to chant the Heart Sutra that way, A-B-L-O-G-I-T-E-J-B-A, with the Mukugyo, and then we stopped doing that because it didn't feel right giving the same weight to all the B's and so forth as you give to the important words.

[36:25]

It just feels clunky. So we stopped chanting with the Heart Sutra or the Mukugyo and just started chanting it more like the way we speak, with the kind of emphasis that we speak. Some people still like to chant it, even though we don't have the Mukugyo, they like to chant it more monosyllabically. and they fall into that. But I like to chant it more the way we speak, even though it's a chant. So it's a kind of combination of speaking and chanting. But it feels more natural. I have another question about the content of the English chants. There's a couple of them, like the song of the Jewel Mirror Samadhi. Do we ever study the content?

[37:27]

Yeah, we just did. When? This year, during practice period. Two years ago. Huh? Two years ago? We did the five ranks. The five ranks, yeah, and I talked about the Julumir Samadhi when I talked about the five ranks, that class. come back to me every now and then. Yeah, well, yes. What is it about it? Well, it's just, for example, I notice, for example, there's a phrase in either that, I forget which one it is, it's this, turning away and touching are both wrong. A lot of times when I'm sitting, that kind of means something to me. Yeah, that's a good koan for zazen. Yeah. So, the only reason I ask is Well, there's a commentary by Charles Locke in Chan and Zen Teaching, second series.

[38:54]

Can you investigate that? I would like to express what may be a contrary opinion or feeling here. And that is, this came up yesterday when the we had made. And I said, I don't want us to get really perfect and professional about this. Serving, dawaning, chanting. This is a lay practice. One thing that we do very, very well is open ourselves for new people. And new people into the positions where it's the pupu-do and et cetera. And if we get, like, too good, and we work real hard at it, and we keep training and training and training, and we get really good, and that, I might add, is a matter of opinion and subjectivity.

[40:06]

You are a musician, and you have a good ear, and you have a sensitivity Well, I don't want to carry on there. I think I made my point. I don't want us to get really good. Charlie, you don't have to worry. What? This morning you said we were as near to perfect as you heard. But that was not because of our technique. Oh. So you didn't say the word sincerity. It's really I didn't, but I spoke around it so that it came out of your mouth. It's not technique, it's just being present.

[41:13]

day, hearing the chanting become very resonant, but also hearing some voices that were not harmonics of these others, and finding that they Well, that's true. Often, the ones that are off are also, everything is included.

[42:42]

My experience of hearing Chinese Buddhists chant is that there's no one that's chanting the same as anyone else. It all works. Somehow it all works. So, that's a good point. Well, see, it used to be an issue, because we only had a single card.

[44:11]

Our chanting used to be very simple. And so we'd hold it with the three fingers on the outside and your little finger and thumb on the inside. That's how we always held the Sutra card. And we always held it up, down like this. Hold the Sutra card up with three fingers on the outside and your thumb and little finger on the inside. But now we have a sutra book. So, you know, whatever way you can do it, it's fine. Whatever works is fine. I don't know how to hold a sutra book. So, I don't know if there is a way. Oh, that's interesting because some people here have indicated that there is a way. Well, maybe there is. I just don't know what it is. Does anybody know the ways? I will tell you when he gets back. But, you know, if you hold the book up attentively, you know, this is, it goes with your posture, right?

[45:37]

And to be working with your posture all the time, when you're chanting and when you're sitting and when you're walking, and when you're holding the book, right? So you hold it up. And, you know, eating, I wanted to say this, eating with Oriyoki, in the monasteries, They always hold the bowl up here and eat like this. We go like this. But to hold the bowl up, then you can keep your posture. Keep your head up. It's not such a long distance either. So I just wanted to say that. So all of the things, you know, eating with Oryogi, chanting, serving, all those things are Zazen practice, should be considered as Zazen practice.

[46:38]

So if we put in Zazen, I mean, chanting is always expressed as the expression of Zazen. After you sit Zazen, you chant. And so chanting is the expression of your Zazen. And if you have strong Zazen, You can have strong chanting. But it seems that part of what you're talking about is somewhat ethnic in character because, you know, our chanting here to me, you know, feels very, you know, I know this isn't a good word, kind of blah. to Korean Zen Center. It's very sing-songy. The Heart Sutra is very joyful. So, which one expresses Zen better? The strength. Strength and gentleness is still strong.

[47:40]

Strong doesn't mean aggressive. expression still are strong. and you also get very attached to your own way.

[49:17]

If you have, if you are comfortable, maybe not the right word, but if you have some faith in your own way, then you can appreciate all the other ways without being pulled off of your seat by them, and saying, oh, that must be right, or, oh, geez, maybe that's the best way, or, you know. Best way is the way that you're doing something that's complete and works. There's always another way to do something. And we always keep looking for the other. That's what I was talking about yesterday. There's always another way. Why is everybody going around looking for the best way? And the best way is right where you are.

[50:20]

That's what Wong Po was talking about. There are no Zen teachers to look for. The best way is with what you've got, right where you are. What are you looking for? But because people think it's out there, you keep looking for the right one. Even the wrong one can be the right one. Anyway, Susan. I think there's another way of looking at it, which is that when you go to different places, they sort of begin to see how much of it is ethnic, how much of it is Japanese, how much of it is Korean, how much of it is Chinese, or whatever.

[51:34]

And then you go, what's the common thread in all of this? So in a way, if you're solid in your own practice, you know, participating in a Tibetan practice actually can enhance your own. No problem. That's right. If you know what your own practice is, you can participate in Tibetan practice, you can go to church, you can pray to God, you can do anything you want, as long as you know where you are, where you stand. Then you can join with everyone and appreciate what they're all doing. No problem. You don't get lost. So, this is not the best practice. I have to tell you, well you probably already know that. But this is what you've got, and this is where you are. All you have to do is do your best. So,

[52:44]

We still have some time left today, a lot of time. Let's do our best.

[52:52]

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