Good morning. We have a wonderful day. The weather is perfect and we have a very nice group of very dedicated students who gave up their holiday weekend to spend it sitting in the zendo and dealing with one of the most important and impactful, to me, teachings of the Buddha, which is about karma. This is a subject that has been up front for me for many years. Before I came here, I was a student of Robert Anderson at Green Gulch. And when he introduced a topic, we had to, it wasn't a topic for one or two lectures. It was a topic for one or two years.

[01:01]

And he dissected with us every aspect. And we learned an incredible amount about ourselves from his teaching. So that's what I'm hoping we're doing this weekend, that we're really understanding karma and experiencing the way that we create our lives. I think the reason Connor was so important to me always was because I grew up a very devout Catholic into my 20s. And as a Catholic, you're programmed to be guilty. You know, there basically is a transgression, you go to hell. That's it.

[02:02]

And that's the kind of thing a kid got. My kid heard that. And so you had to be very careful. Very, very careful. And then you had to go to confession every week and come up with something you've done wrong. And it was hard for like a nine or ten year old to do that. You have to look at the Ten Commandments and you didn't care anything, whatever. And so you came up with things like, I hate my sister, or I disobeyed my parents. But it was a constantly, it did program me for Buddhist practice in a way, because it made you constantly aware. You had to like take stock of yourself every week before we went in. And then you got, Although you did get penance, some rosaries and things, you got forgiveness. You were purified in that act of confession. So that was a kind of a bottom line. You know what? My glasses.

[03:04]

He brought them, but when... I thought they were right on my neck like they usually are. Everyone does. Everyone has the same problem. So when I was so, it was really so wonderful for me to study karma. And eventually it ended up with a three-month practice period at Tassajara on karma. And I spent time reading all of the old teachings, the Pali Canon and the Abhidharma, studying this. For me, this guilt thing, I had a lot to be guilty about in my mind. And so it was this, but in the process, and just being with it, we will be encouraged to think about it, to feel it, to really look at our own minds and our own actions.

[04:16]

And then there would be almost daily an opportunity to confess and repent in front of everybody. So it was very powerful, very powerful. So for me, this is, and then I think when I was head student here, I was supposed to be talking about some face, Medicine Buddha, basically. Medicine, disease, subdue each other. And what came out during my way-seeking mind talks was just vomiting all the guilt that I had. And then I ended up giving a talk on karma, which I found, and it was right when I was looking through my folders on karma, that it was very interesting to see where I was in 2008 versus now and how I related to it. So for me, it's a very, very powerful teaching.

[05:22]

So I wanted to... I know many of you are long-time students, but some of you are not, so I wanted to give you, first, a historical context for teachings about karma. The notion of karma was a radical shift from the yogic one that the Buddha grew up with in India. For Hindus, karma was fate. If you were born in a certain position, a rich Brahmin, or a low caste worker, it was due to your actions in a past life. The idea was to just accept your situation and perform according to your caste definition. Because if you had If you had been virtuous, you would have had a higher caste life. So this is all personal responsibility.

[06:26]

Felt very Catholic to me when I was reading about it. There was a possibility, though. If you live a virtuous life in this life, you might have a rebirth that was a little better. You might not end up at a low caste, or you might end up going from a Brahmin to a low caste. And the basis for this, a lot of this teaching on karma and fate, was that there was a belief in Hinduism in Atman, the soul, a permanent soul. It could be called a permanent self, an ego self. And you had this soul from the beginning this time, and you're going to continue to have that soul in each rebirth. So there was something permanent in you that would go on. And your actions determined what the situation of that soul would be in the next time.

[07:33]

So after Buddha's awakening, he saw that the self or soul was imaginary. It was impermanent, there were a lot of causes and conditions that created our environment. And he taught that karma was not fate, but was related to the laws of causation. Basically that our thoughts, it usually says body, speech and mind, but I actually think it's thought to speech and actions, are based on... have effects. And by being awake we can develop a free will to make decisions based on conscious intention. And this intention and this ability to take vow and to embark on some volitional action to create our own karma was revolutionary really. Salvation was possible and also this kind of outdated notion of

[08:37]

soul was basically eliminated. But it was interesting because in the early, some of the early Buddhist teachings, you actually find stuff that sounds a lot like the old fatalistic teaching. We were reading the Dharmapada, which is one of the earliest Buddha teachings in our priest group, and it was really sounding like Hindu, almost like a Hindu version. And so in the earliest teachings of the Buddha, there are some sermons and there are some teachings that actually talk about rebirth sometimes or imply fatalism. And so it was a while, and part of that I think was if you're born in a situation where the majority have very strong feelings, this happens in every religion as it moves in, it has to take on some of the characteristics or you kind of use the same terminology so that you can include people and they can kind of begin to relate to the issue.

[09:51]

They relate to the teaching, but you have to kind of take them along. So from what I've, you know, some of the things I've looked at show kind of an evolution of the Buddha's teaching and his disciples teaching over time. The thing about these early teachings really was that they didn't get written down, right? They didn't have a way to write things down or print them or whatever. So it wasn't until the 4th century when the a book called the Abhidharmakosa, Abhidharma was written, and it was about psychology, the working of the mind, according to Buddha. And it detailed in this very extensive way all of these mental factors, the way our mind works to produce action, but it still has a tinge It still has a tinge. There are ways that they do present a way for us to repent.

[10:57]

But some things you can't repent from. And so there's some implication that something is going to be carried over to some other place. Or that we go to a lower heaven. There were Buddhist heavens that were talked about. We'd go to some less desirable place if we hadn't repented and we hadn't reframed our karma. But the teaching that we teach now originated in by a philosopher, Nagarjuna, in the second century, who was the first one to write about the Middle Way. And in that way, he had endless verses that taught us how to look at the reality, look at objects and look at reality around us to recognize that things were impermanent, to recognize that things developed because of causes and conditions around us. And this obviously is the teaching of emptiness.

[12:04]

But it was not actually welcomed. in that society, it was still too far from what people were used to. So it really wasn't until a couple of centuries later that Vashubandhu, another Buddhist philosopher, took the teachings of Nagarjuna and made them more accessible in some of his writings. And then, so then it became You know, it started to seep out and be more acceptable. So the teachings of, and that really created the Mahayana school of Buddhism, the school of Buddhism that we are part of. So it's interesting to see the historic nature of it and how, you know, and of course it's empty. Like we don't know. A philosopher said this, a disciple said this. So we're kind of intuiting. And maybe it's not so important. It's interesting to know about, but maybe it's not so important.

[13:10]

Maybe it's how we understand karma, how we experience it in our lives, that we know it, that we work with our minds. We work to see our minds, we work with our minds. And in doing that, we don't really have to read these things. we actually experienced them, we actually knew them. So this is the last bit of this type of stuff. And just the other thing that Vashu Bandhu did is really take stuff from the Abhidharma, take stuff from the Norwegian and made them kind of workable. I mean, I have books like this on the Abhidharma, right? So you could not expect that that would be very inspiring or even accessible. So you had to kind of make a teaching that you could actually explain and people could hear and people could internalize and actually say, oh, yeah,

[14:21]

I feel this is what my experience is. So, and his big teaching was really around the way our mind works, the way we perceive, the way we process what we perceive, the way we discern and define what we see. And he did it in a very systematic way. So again, it was accessible. So, let's go back now that we've done that without the need to do that for the study session, but this is a study session. So I wanted people to know that it's interesting to go back and look at the early teachings. I think they're very rich and we don't always talk about them. And I think they. With using our modern understanding, we can also benefit from this trips into the more detailed and philosophical realm.

[15:22]

And that would make more sense. Yeah, I know Sojourner always says, don't worry about studying. I told him when I first practiced. I really had hard times listening to classes and studying. He said, don't worry about it. Just do Zazen. Come to the class and do Zazen. So the most important thing, and I did, and I didn't sleep. I just did Zazen. And I slept through a lot of classes. I got a lot of rest during the classes, which was beneficial. I had... No! I mean, I felt, you know, I could be a cheerier mother and everything, that little extra sleep. So, going back to, just getting back to talking about karma in a way that we practice or understand karma in the Mahayana school. So, karma is a Sanskrit word from the root kri, which means to do or to make.

[16:26]

And it's really any action we initiate, whether it's thought, word or deed. There's no time when karma is not happening. Wherever we are, whatever we're understanding, whether we understand it or not, we're acting in a karmic way, everything Every thought, every action, every word we say has some effect, it reverberates. There's a metaphor that is used a lot, it's just something like throwing a pebble in the water, a pebble in the ocean. and the vibrations reverberate everywhere, and there's evidence of this, right? This is really true, that every physical action we take, and I think every mental action we take, either produces light or not. And that's maybe what we carry with us, but that has an effect on the people we see, the people we talk to, that's part of what we're creating our life in, and it is karmic.

[17:39]

And that's why we spend so much time sitting here with our minds, trying to be with them, because they are so powerful in terms of initiating any action that we take in the world. I just wrote something about Dogen saying the same thing about water. So then it's important to know how karma works. We know what karma is. Any action. It's really, the law of karma is like the law of causation. Every action has a reaction with not necessarily any moral implications. But both in Eastern and Western religions talk about it as if it had retributions. And there still is in Buddhism an idea that we are, you know, the retributions are not the kind of retributions like you're going to hell, but the retributions are there.

[18:45]

Anything that we think leaves some mark or that we say leaves some mark somewhere. So moving into thinking about this as emptiness focuses the light on the fact that in our lives there's a lot of dualism. We have to make a lot of decisions. We're going to do this or we're going to do that. So it's how do we, the challenges, how do we work with In a dualistic world, understanding the emptiness of actor and action, and yet make decisions, make new skillful means to wholesome behavior versus unwholesome behavior. How do we do that? That's our life's work. The other part of causation is understanding dependent co-arising.

[19:59]

That is what the Buddha taught, that everything that happens to us is impacted by a whole host of things, both internal and external. And yet, And yet we have to know, even as we're doing it, that it's also impermanent, right? That it's also coming and going, but it's coming and going based on all of this other input. So, this really dispels any notion of eternal suffering or eternal retribution for bad action. And yet, there are consequences. So, the consequences are not kind of punishment from outside.

[21:02]

They're not retributions from above. If we pay attention, we can actually see that if we say a snappy thing to somebody, that even if that person is able to shine it on, for us, we have a smell. I was talking about a smell. We have a bad smell. Our body doesn't feel right. We feel irritated. We feel guilty. All of these things come from that action. We don't get away with it. We can't be careless in our actions. Because we have to see, you know. It's like when you go on the street, it really makes a difference if you look at people, I found. If you can really just notice them. You've created something by just noticing them. There is a visible effect. And so it's as subtle as that.

[22:06]

It's as subtle as how you greet somebody. It's as subtle as what you say in the morning when you get up to somebody. That's not so subtle. So, for me, this, the more I study karma, the more I see karma, karmic teaching or the action of karma as covering our whole life. And when we study karma, we end up studying all of Buddha's teachings, specifically the precepts and the Noble Truths and the perfections of wisdom. All of that is part of how we work with our actions. It's all part of helping us to be aware. Because when you look at it like that, it can be kind of overwhelming. Like, do I have to have that in my mind all the time?

[23:09]

Do I have to really be so self-conscious? Sometimes we have to be self-conscious. At least starting out in thinking about how we are impacting everybody else in our world. So this takes a really long time. And it's really never-ending. It's never-ending. You're always apologizing for a careless remark or spilling something or whatever. You're always having to look back and say, oh, I thought I was over that. I thought I had that down. But no, it's impermanent, so no. So it really starts, thinking about this, starts with understanding some of the basic teachings, like understanding right view, which means understanding emptiness, understanding dependent co-arising, seeing how it works, and right thinking.

[24:18]

How do you look at an object? What happens when you look at an object? What does your mind create with that contact with that object? So what's going on here? When I encounter an object, what gets pinged in my consciousness? What happens in my storehouse consciousness where memories come up and color that vision? So right thinking, because right thinking, of course, is what leads us then in a direction to take action. But if the thinking is not pure, if it's colored by habitual patterns, habitual reactions, then we're constrained. We're constrained by that mind, that habitual mind that gets us in the same situation. We can't be free, we can't be liberated because we've allowed our mind, and I say allowed because it's true, we're allowing.

[25:31]

We're allowing these thoughts, we're allowing these patterns of thought, thinking. If we don't question it, then we're responsible for what happens. So I've kind of, you know, been working on it, as I say, for many years. And trying to look at... I had, early on, I actually, I thought of myself as a... I had some bad things. I had definitely a judgmental mind. It was an analytic mind. I was studying science. And when I started to think about what came up for me at Green Gulch one time when we were studying was I just started noticing that I had kind of this certain reaction with certain women. And I...

[26:34]

Just sat with that. What's it about those women? I seem to be having, you know, I was very supportive of other women doctors, but not maybe that one or that one. And I started to recognize, at that time I was kind of up and coming, if you will, in my career. And I realized that I was up and coming. I was conscious of myself. I was focused on my skills, my accomplishments in that way. And when I bumped up against other women who were just like me, Oh, I see, because early in the day, you know, when we weren't, we lived in the ice ages, and when there were almost no women, for example, in medical school, there were just a handful. So, and it's interesting that instead of the, initially, this isn't true anymore, but initially, instead of the women bringing femininity and sensitivity, or these things we think, they're just, in order to survive, you became like the men.

[27:42]

So it impacted us. We were transformed by the causes and conditions of, say, working in a hospital, where the hierarchy was defined, where the attitudes were defined. And so in order to, this is my understanding, this got very complicated for me, as you can see. We became, we had to become more aggressive to survive. in that environment. And so a lot of us got to be bitches. At least we had that side, you know, because we were getting it from all over. The nurses didn't always treat us nicely. the doctors thought of a second class, and it was that way. And so here I was, instead of, you know, trying to support other women, what I noticed was that I had been co-opted and I was poisoned by, you know, by those causes and conditions that I was around.

[28:47]

And that was really quite an awareness for me, because I thought, oh, I see. There's a really big problem over here. And, you know, it wasn't overnight, but just that awareness, that time at Green Gulch, you know, for three weeks or whatever, just was enough for me to get that picture of my behavior. And it wasn't a picture that I was very proud of. So I had to really think about it. in terms of, you know, how I would function in the future. What was I going to do? How would I? When I had that, and I consciously focused on when I had that response to somebody to actually engage with them and not be separate, not have them over there and me over here, but actually join in some way. So it was very powerful for me, which is why I got hooked. So, This happens with a lot of things.

[29:51]

We have conditions in our lives and we have conditions around us and we have internal working pre-programmed reactivity. So we develop and it's easy for us if we don't watch carefully, if we aren't very mindful of our actions. We let our preferences take over, our preferences that what I like is right, what I don't like is wrong. Or we can get drawn too much towards the pleasant experiences and push away the negative, which is really poisons of greed. and aversion. So without our paying attention, those things seep out. And so the study of karma is really the study of self. It's the study of self, deep study of the self. Suzuki Roshi says that to work with karma, our minds should be more careful, more attentive and more reflective.

[30:57]

So notice whether you're creating a problem in your everyday life or creating bad karma for yourself or others. There is a reason why you suffer, and it is not possible to escape from suffering unless you change your karma. When you follow karma and drive karma in a good direction, you can avoid the destructive nature of karma. You can do that by being attentive. to the nature of karma, to the nature of your desires, and the nature of your activities. As Buddha pointed out, to know the cause of suffering is to know how to avoid suffering. If you study why you suffer, you will understand cause and effect, and how unwholesome actions result, and they have unwholesome effects. As long as we have an idea of self, karma has an object to work on. This is all Suzuki Roshi talking. So for me this means somehow holding myself practicing really a lot of mindfulness but also

[32:08]

These patterns are inevitable, so in working on them, shame is not the answer. So yes, we have to watch. Yes, we have to be careful all the time, but we also can laugh at our variables and be okay with it because we know it's empty. And we know that we have, working with our experiences and working with our minds, we can change things. So that's the beauty and the salvation that comes out of practicing Buddhism. I guess, where are we? Okay. Because I want to give people time to kind of respond. I did want to talk about one last kind of important aspect.

[33:20]

And this was something that Reb Anderson talked about endlessly. And that is what is called in Sanskrit, Chitana. And Chittana is kind of intention or volition. Because karmic action is not just stuff happens. Like, we can do stupid things without thinking. We can do a mindless thing. You know, that stuff happens. And sometimes bad things happen, you know, and also undesirable effects happen, and sometimes they don't, or sometimes it's neutral. But it's the actions that we take, that we take out of that thought process of, I see an object, I have an opinion about it, I like it or I don't like it, I want it or I don't want it, it's good or it's bad, and I'm going to do something about it. And that doing something about it comes out of intention. We have a thought that it would be really good to do that.

[34:23]

Or maybe we don't really do that. we could be eating the wrong thing and not let ourselves think that I really want to do it, just do it. But most of the time we have a second or two, at least, to before we take an action, there's a thought. There's a thought process. And one can redirect one's intention in that moment. So Chitin is very powerful. And And that's really, I think, one of the most important aspects of looking at karma. We're going to look at that a little bit more later in the weekend, but this idea that we see the workings, we see how our mind puts things together, we see how how we sort of have this idea and then someone else shows up and says something and we realize we're wrong.

[35:29]

Oh wow, I had a preconceived notion. I just made that all up and now someone else says something skillful to me and they raised my awareness. They were another condition. Another condition happened. That's why it's good to, I think, to talk to people about difficult things, because in the process of discussing them, you can kind of spill out your, you know, your biases and hopefully a Dharma brother or sister will say, do you think you really, does this really seem okay? Or are you really, are you really being judgmental? Are you really, Gossiping? What are you doing here? What are you doing here? That's a big question in Karma. What am I doing here? What do I want to do? It's the difference between acting without purpose and living a life of purpose, living a life of conviction or having this intention to save all beings.

[36:40]

That's the ultimate intention as a Bodhisattva. If I have that intention and hold it in my mind, I can find it again. I can say, would a Bodhisattva do this? Does this sound like a Bodhisattva act? Is this kind or is this me trying to show off? Is this kind or am I just in a bad mood? All of these things, as we process them, we can become something else. While we're processing it, we're learning something. We're learning a skill. We're learning how do I actually meet the world as a Bodhisattva? What is it that I need to know? What do I need to study? Some teaching that I might need to study that will help me with that particular thing. And so when we go back to write the Eightfold Path or some of the other teachings.

[37:45]

So I think, I think I'm going to just stop in a minute, second. Yeah, I think I'd like to, I'll just leave it with that. So, so I think the idea would be recognizing, recognizing that every act is karmic act. a conscious one or not. Go ahead. That's a broad topic. Not in the same way as, for example, retribution. You know, there are times we are born with certain A lot of our physical stuff is something we come in with, right? I didn't talk anything about, because it's too big a subject, but we come in with a lot of conditions in our subconscious mind and in our genetics.

[38:56]

So we come to the world with that. That's how we are. So a lot of illnesses are kind of like that. Although behavior has a relationship to manifesting certain things, if you don't have the gene for diabetes, you're not going to manifest it. so you can eat all you want. Some people you hate, they're skinny and they just are eating all the stuff, you know, and you came in with a different profile. That means that ice cream cone is just not going to do it. And I think that's kind of how I look at being a physician. One of the things we do that's really harmful to people, especially now, I heard an African-American woman on the radio and on PR yesterday talking and starting a movement to force a kind of consciousness and support for people who are born with a tendency to be overweight.

[40:13]

And she talked all about fat shaming and that every time she was fat, she was overweight from when she was a very little girl and she had to starve herself. And she was always ashamed. And a lot of other people feel that way. It's certainly not that this characteristic is in one group or another, but this woman was speaking from that point of view, that it felt that there was just a shaming and judging process going on about how she should behave and it's her fault. And somehow she's less than because of that. I mean, it's the same thing about people who get heart attacks and get all these other things. So a lot of our physical disease. has, as I say, has a biologic and genetic origin. But, of course, there are things, there are ways that we behave, for example, fixating on negative, getting into antisocial behaviors, you know, that creates stress.

[41:24]

Yes, all the time. Well, a lot. So how does karma look at that as individuals? Is it about how I perceive when I confront them with the love one is sick? Well, karma is intentional action. If you get the flu and die, and you got the flu and died because you happened to be on a bus or a plane and you got in touch with somebody, these are not things that are as a result of intentional action. I mean, maybe if you stick a needle in your arm every day, that's intentional action. That's different. And I don't know whether you want to say anything about that. I would agree that everything is cause and effect, but all cause and effect is not karma.

[42:41]

As Jerry just said, volitional action is the root of karma. But in the classic texts, there are other forms of causation. is in the field of beyond. Weather is in the field of beyond. Earthquakes are in the field of beyond. Where you are placed in relation to those things, there may be some karmic element in there. But you should realize that there are other forms of causation. And that's really important. To say, I know Jerry's going to get this, the opportunity of Buddhist karma as opposed to earlier and other religious expressions or definitions of karma, the opportunity of Buddhist karma is that if you are aware

[44:00]

the potential choices, the solution choices you're making, then you can actually alter, to a large degree, you can alter the situation going forward. And that then is taking it within the realm of the religion. But we can't know the complete nexus of causes and conditions. We only, what we have to decide, to me, the operative is, okay, this is what's happening. How do I want to live? What do I want to do? And as a physician, you want to give people advice for healthy living that might help them with their condition. But if you kind of do it as a guilt trip, and that you're telling them you have to do this, this, and this, and because you didn't do this, this, and this, that's why this happened.

[45:11]

So that's a danger. There are influences. There are causes and conditions for illness. But it's not directly because of your acting in a certain way. So I think that mix of unintentional or the other kind of causes is always there. Those are the conditions and causes of underlying your behavior or your health and your well-being. Katie, did you have something to say? In the name of talking about patterns, actually, your talk helped me to say something about something that has bothered me all along for years, which is how we talk about other religions. And I appreciate that the first part of your talk was not very fundamental to what you were saying, but I think how we talk version of Hinduism that I heard in the first part of your talk.

[46:34]

This isn't just an instance of just you at all, but we've heard a number of times here about how we do things versus how this other religion does it. So I just wanted to bring that up. Thank you. Yeah. Sue? Well, I also think that we... I've come to discern that there is such a thing as, because everything's interconnected, there's not just the karma of our own intentions, but there's social karma, societal karma, and we suffer

[47:37]

One person can suffer from a different person's bad intentions, and it's a big mix, and so war is a result of intention, but the people that suffer aren't the people that have the bad intentions. So I totally 100% believe that.

[48:44]

And that's been helpful to me. When you do something, you work really hard to elect somebody to be president of the country, and it doesn't work out. Thank you for being here, and this afternoon we're going to talk about different types of karma, individual, non-individual, and collective karma, and we'll be talking more about that this afternoon. Yeah? What Sue said and what Ed said about sickness and or general condition kind of causation, it seems to me that our karma, what we bring to that situation, is set up by how we've been behaving in our own mind, body, and speech. So when we arrive in a situation, no matter how it was formulated or manifest, how we react to that illness or to that group behavior that went sideways,

[49:52]

hurdles or karmic tools or karmic assets or liabilities to deal with in any given situation, whether it's sickness or genetic or not, it seems to me that we maintain this vigilance about body, speech and mind in order that when we arrive in these situations, we understand there's power in the world. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's, yeah, that's, that's definitely, I thought I was saying that, but maybe I didn't say it clearly, that basically you have to, you, you come with your own baggage, whatever it is, a complete, the complete package. And so the more you're aware of that, as you need a new situation, you can, you can go back, you can remind yourself. One more, Helen? I don't know if that's a word, ditch.

[51:11]

It's kind of elongating that word. Casually. I don't know if that's used in our culture. Female makes specific words. It's like a funnel to put that out there. That came out because I had a lot of judgment. It came out because that's how I was thinking then. And so, yeah, I can appreciate sensitivity to that. Okay, I think. Yeah, Judy, this is it. repent for what you don't know. You've got two people who made comments, seemingly pointing out, I could say, what you didn't know. But the way you responded to them was, yeah, I know. I mean, in a heartful way.

[52:13]

So, how do you repent for what you don't know? How does that connect to the reading? Well, that's the... Sometimes you The difference about generating karma is that you are doing it intentionally. If you don't know that you've offended somebody and then you find out and you say, gee, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, that's clean to me. That's what working with karma is. My words had an effect. Other people had a response to that. I accept their words. because I respect people's opinions and want to hear what they have to say, and I admit if I was unskillful. That's the way we deal with it. And it's much easier when you do it real time. I much prefer real time to, you know, other ways of dealing with something.

[53:18]

If somebody tells you, and you weren't intending to do something, that is not the kind of karma we're talking about. Oh, yes, of course. I mean, how many times do we do a careless word without thinking because we get caught in some story that we're telling or whatever. And everybody has different sensibilities. So you give a talk here, I mean, you have no idea what... People are coming from all different places, have all different sensitivities. And we usually, you know, we're pretty open, I think, a lot of us when we talk. And then we take the risk. This is absolutely the last. OK. We will.

[54:12]

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