Sometimes as a child or as an adult you may have been touched in a church or in the wilderness by a sense of godliness or some divine presence. Well, and the peculiar thing about Buddhism, perhaps, is certainly it recognizes such experiences. I mean, people have them, we have them. But in Buddhism the sense is that these are qualities of your being, not something outside you.

[01:20]

So, I mean, maybe some religions... Maybe in the more Hindu religions you might emphasize that you have a godly quality. But I don't know if that doesn't fit the sense of it in Buddhism. It's more like maybe try to find some way to express it. It's more like we are some maybe magical beings. And when we have such an experience, again, perhaps in a church or in nature or in your kitchen, We understand it as a kind of, I don't know what word to use again, but a magical quality that we have and the world has.

[02:37]

And it's always tempting to, our inclination is to ask ourselves, if this is so, why we lost it, and so forth. And that can be quite interesting, but it's also not very fruitful. It's like the famous story about somebody who's been shot with an arrow. You pull the arrow out. You don't wait until you figure out who did it and why before you pull the arrow out. So mostly in this weekend we'll concentrate on pulling the arrow out. Sometimes we want to

[04:06]

know who did it before we feel justified in pulling the arrow out. Anyway, it happens that we lose touch with, I think, we lose touch with something that we actually know but are out of touch with. And if you look at the roots of our language, well, look at the roots of English, Many of the etymological roots of English word mean brightness or brilliance, radiance. And have a sense of awe, mystery and magic in the roots of the word. Like the roots of our own experiences, which mostly happened as a child, but not always.

[05:51]

The sense of this is lost as we start using the words in ordinary language. And the sense of how we exist in some fresh way is lost as we lead our upright daily life. And sometimes it comes back only if we lie down. Standing up seems to require us to lie down. And maybe standing up requires us to lie down even while we're standing up.

[07:04]

Or lie down somehow, inside. And it may be that just our conversation last night about living in Dharma City It may have affected your body, or your sleep, or how you dreamed last night. It depends on how much it penetrated you, this idea. Because as soon as we feel like we live in a bigger space, it affects the way our body works and the way our dream body works. Now, as I said last night, I would like to go a little slower than I sometimes do.

[08:08]

And if there's some word or sense or feeling I'm using that you'd like to stop and talk about a little bit, please ask me. So if you have a strong feeling for yourself or a feeling may be coming from everyone in you, that you'd like to stop for a minute and look at something and please interrupt me. And if we have too many interruptions, I can ask you not to interrupt, so don't worry. And maybe later today or later today or tomorrow we can try some other way to see how we understand these things.

[09:38]

Anyway, in any case, the practices of Zen and the teachings of Zen are an attempt to put you into direct contact with this magical being that you are. And also the skills to maintain your ordinary life and to realize that your ordinary life arises not only from your society and your practical needs, but also from this magical being that you are. Moana, there you are. I knew you were there, but I forgot. Do you have a blackboard or a writing board somewhere?

[11:21]

I don't need it this minute. Maybe. Upstairs, maybe? Maybe. Okay. I might want to use it. So vielleicht könnten wir später eine Tafel oder sowas ähnliches benutzen. Is it cold over there? Yeah, but the air is very necessary. Yeah. Do we want some light or is this okay? Okay. It's a gray day in Dharma City. Nice and rainy as I was driving in. Okay, so... the realization that you're a magical being.

[12:34]

I'm just going to use this term, magical being, for the lack of something better. I could also say a Buddha or a Bodhisattva or something like that. But the realization that you're a magical being comes as a kind of turning around inside you. It actually feels like a kind of turning around as you're turning around to face yourself in another dimension. And we can't predict how this will happen. Sometimes it happens out of frustration. And sometimes it arises out of joy. And sometimes it... It's hardly noticeable.

[13:51]

But you begin to see that your life is too. Now, the sense of Buddhism as a whole is not so much to try to give you a prescription that causes this to happen. But rather to give you, as I said last night, a description that makes it more likely to happen. So in order that you have something to do, but it doesn't want you to have nothing to do, or it wants you to have nothing to do, but first you have to have something to do.

[15:06]

So it's actually created a quite... developed description of how this world exists, and how you exist within your own world. And I don't know, I mean, I may want to teach you some of this, and maybe, if you, I may want to teach you some of this, but it may seem a little too complicated. If you understand it, it's not very complicated, but it takes a while to grok it, you know. Did the word grok enter German?

[16:18]

No? It's from that science fiction novel, isn't it? Heinlein's science fiction novel. One of the most famous, but I forget. But anyway, it became an English word for a while. It's a word the author made up. It means something like proprioceptive understanding, if that helps you The thing is about this description You don't need the whole description to have this turning around. Often just a taste of it is all you need. So I'll present enough of it so you at least get a taste. And why you only need a taste often is because you already live in this world, but you don't have a description of it.

[17:48]

You have a description of another world that we all live in. or we live in to some degree. But quite a lot of us escapes out of the public description of our lives. We not only live in Berlin and Dharma City, We also live in a weird city. And you can just feel it out there in Berlin. There's a lot of people out there living in a weird city. And if you could open your eye and see the postures of their inner body, you'd see people walking around Berlin in all kinds of weird positions.

[19:15]

And mostly they disguise it because they put on clothes and shoulder pads and all kinds of things. As you look, they're actually quite... And they've got other people. They see a friend and they immediately take their friend and they've got their friend tied into even a weirder position. No, I'm exaggerating a little bit. But not much. And part of the reason for this is that the public description of our life and our personal description of self doesn't cover who we are. And we make a basic confusion of interior space with private space.

[20:17]

As if your inner world was your most private world. This is not really true. Your inner world is quite obvious. Quite obvious to anybody who can see. Perhaps not in all the details, but the picture's there. And even someone who can't see, we feel it. And you feel it in another person. And may often friendships maybe two people may meet and it's their weird city inner life that likes each other and they don't know quite why they like each other but their weird city life is bonded.

[21:37]

In this private inner life and weird city gets mixed up with our dream life and so forth. So if you actually practice this sense of dharma city, it does begin to change your inner life and your private life. And how the dimensions of weird city press on you. And that's one of the excitements of living in a city, of course, too, is because you feel this wider sense of life, even if it is a bit weird.

[22:47]

And we can even confuse our need for a wider sense of life with a weirder sense of life. Okay, so Buddhism says in the midst of all this, how do you put together your conscious life? Now, you are... Most of the time, most of us identify with the self we are and with the thoughts and with representational thinking.

[24:14]

So, to get outside of representational thinking and identifying with yourself, your constructed and fabricated self. You have to see that it's constructed. Because until you see that it's a construction, you don't have permission to step outside of it. And if you're going to step outside of it, you need somewhere to stand. And that space to stand most traditionally is, and probably most functionally is, actually your breath.

[25:34]

Okay, so one reason we spend quite a bit of time in Zen meditating Is you after a while really begin not just to see but to know that the self is fabricated. You see how it's been put together. You see how it arises. And one of the practices of Zen is to begin to see the horizon or the limits of self.

[26:36]

Or the limits or horizon of every sense perception. So right now I would have a sense, for instance, of exactly how much I can know given these circumstances. And I feel embedded exactly in that, the limits of what I know. So, by meditating again, usually some time every day is sufficient, but nearly every day is almost necessary. Because you've got to create a regular habit, having a regular space where the usual considerations of your life don't function.

[27:56]

Because your usual space is always reinforcing the way your description of the world. And you also need to develop, so anyway, so you have this space every day a little bit where your description of the world is a little bit suspended. You have a moment of year-round winter schlaf. You have a moment of a hibernation in another kind of dimension. In English we don't have winter in there, we just have, it can happen in any season.

[29:16]

It seems like being here. It seems to be always winter in Germany. Yes, it's a lot of winter. Don't the animals and citizens of Berlin get confused? What time of year is it? Okay, you also need the habit of locating yourself in your breath. If you develop these two things, more and more recognizing that your view and experience of self is a construct with limits, And you more and more get in the habit of residing in your breath. In zazen and in your daily life, you set the stage for this turning around.

[30:38]

And you create the conditions that allow the teachings to function. Have you understood what I've said so far? I don't expect 100%. You can say yes if it's only 50%. Sukhiroshi used to end all his lectures and sections where there was a teaching. He'd always end with, do you understand? And finally I went up to him one time, after about a year of listening to this phrase, or two years. I said, I wish you wouldn't keep saying that. I don't know what I, I don't know.

[31:59]

And I didn't, I couldn't answer the question, do I understand or not. Of course I didn't. But of course I did too. But I certainly couldn't say I did. But anyway, do you understand? Why don't we take a little break of 15 minutes or so. OK. Ready, voice? I'm speaking another language anyway.

[33:07]

I might as well not speak German. If you're living in Dharma City, if you've come to start living in Dharma City, You'll be like a new kid on the block. I don't know if you'll sing as much. But it's like exploring a city. You know Berlin, perhaps, and the streets, but suddenly the streets will be different. Familiar enough to find your way, but different at the same time. But to hold this, but to stay in Dharma City, you need to be able to hold this vision of Dharma City. And that's not so easy.

[34:13]

Sometimes you feel it's indulgent. Sometimes irrelevant, meaningless thing to do. But if your intimations of Dharma City are deep enough, you'll keep restoring the vision. Now, let me review a little bit of what we've talked about. And here I have to keep teaching, presenting basic Buddha.

[35:17]

And is fundamental the same as basic? Yeah. And what about fundamental? It's different. Is it different? Yeah. Hold leg is fundamental. Basic... To lay the ground, it's the word for lay the ground. Basic means... Basic means the basic things, you know, the things you need. What you just really have to know. Yeah, what you have to know. Also, the essential things? Yeah, maybe essential. I don't know.

[36:21]

This isn't so important. Fundamental means that which you can't do without. Okay, anyway. So anyway, I'm trying to give you, those of you who are new, the basics, some of the basics. And those of you who I've been practicing with some time, I'm trying to come at the basics in a little different form of view all the time. And it's quite disturbing that it takes close up all the time. Sometimes I can't hear, so... Okay. I'm always trying, for those of you who've been practicing, with me for some time, I'm always trying to come at the basics from another angle.

[37:25]

Now all of you live in different parts of Berlin or different parts of Germany. But you all live next to each other in Dharma City. And it's a little like a lake. There's lots of lakes around here, so you've all must have had experience with lakes. It's one of the nicest things about this area. Many of the lakes are great. Das ist wohl das Schönste an diesem Gebiet hier, dass es so viele Seen gibt. I had no idea Berlin was such a beautiful city. Und ich hatte keine Vorstellung davon, dass Berlin solch eine schöne Stadt ist.

[38:30]

It has a grim reputation, which is being changed. Also es hat grim? Grim, dark, because of all the political stuff. Ja, es hatte solch einen finsteren Ruf, aber ich glaube, der hat sich gebessert. But you don't look like green people. Anyway, if you're on a lake and it's particularly still, sometimes like under the shadows, within the shadows of the trees, the water is almost black. Yet you can see directly down into the lake. And the tiniest insect makes a little movement on it. Or a leaf or a little stone. And the reflections of the trees or flowers along the lake are very clear in the water. You see into the lake and yet you see the reflection.

[39:48]

Actually, everything that happens to us is sort of like that. The smallest thing, imagine that we are a lake. The smallest thing reaches deep into us. If you hold up a flower, it reaches deep into us. I think of these guys and restaurants around here come and hold up flowers all the time that you're trying to eat. And I realize the economics and social situation of these people is quite complicated. But it's still wonderful they come and hold up these flowers all the time. In any case, even if the lake is quite choppy, the reflection of the flower or the movement of the insect on the surface is still there.

[41:18]

Choppy? Choppy. Even if the lake surface is quite choppy, the reflection of a leaf or a plant is still there. I don't know how you learn words like choppy. They're not taught in school. Anyway, even if the water is quite choppy, still the reflection is there somewhere scattered. So this... When I see you, it's like this flower goes right into me. But if I'm quite choppy, not calm, my description is all, you know, something or other.

[42:20]

Still it penetrates, but it's all mixed up. So our being manifests in forms. And those forms are tied together in a description. And different peoples, whether it's civilizations like the West and Asia or tribal tribes in tropical countries. They have each, these people, anyone has experience of the world that arises in form. And then those forms are tied together in descriptions. And those descriptions are tied together to create cultures and civilizations.

[43:42]

It's really the skeleton of it that's simple. And then those descriptions, of course, it's obvious, influence what we experience. But the description doesn't entirely influence what we experience. A lot of our experience still arises independent of our description. And because of that, we can practice. If that wasn't the case, you could never understand another culture. You could never be outside your description.

[44:43]

You only see the way the waves reflect the light and refract the light. You wouldn't see into the light. Okay, now let me start again and review what we've talked about so far. I said we are magical beings. And this is something we can realize. And I said that we live in three cities. Weird city. Which is confused with our private space. Berlin. Or where do you live? We need to do something, and practicing meditation is the easiest and quickest.

[46:05]

We need to have a way to remind ourselves that this self is a description. And this world we see as a description. But you can know that intellectually, but it's not the same as really knowing it through meditation. And if you don't really know it, then it's just one more item within your description. It's just part of the description which says it's a description. And you need somewhere to reside outside your description. And the easiest place at practice to locate a place to reside is your breath.

[47:14]

Now, that sums up more or less what I talked about. And I'll add one thing to that. Now, this residing in your breath is actually a dharma. And dharmism or dharma is the characteristic way of looking at the world. That's called Buddhism. And Dharma really means to reside at a level in your experience and your life, your lived life, that you can actually experience. that's not expanded into generalizations or rushed by.

[48:43]

So really, the practice of Buddhism is to take up your residence in dharma. And that means in the smallest units that you can identify. So you're constantly practicing to locate yourself in the units of experience. I think that's why when people are feeling a little depressed or something, they intuitively go and wash the dishes or do something like that. And it's actually quite demanding because you can't drop the dishes and your hands are wet and so on. Okay. So... So what I will try to do is develop this sense of residing in dharmas a little.

[50:12]

But first I'd like to stop now and hopefully see if any of you, I hope you do, have something you'd like us to discuss together. Is there any part of this you'd like me to make clearer? Or share your understanding of what we've talked about with each other? Now that we're all in this lake together. She went from being in Dharma City together, now we're in the lake. Okay, so we're at Dharma Lake together. So please, do you have something you'd like us to discuss? Can I, before you say something, can I say something?

[51:22]

People ask me what it's like to teach in different countries. And I say, when I teach in German countries, particularly Switzerland and Germany, No one says anything. There's a great friendliness, but no one says anything. But when I speak in French-speaking countries, like in Belgium, I barely get started. Everybody's talking. So I don't have to worry about asking, will you say anything, because everybody's saying... So I say, let's have... Anybody have anything to say in our one French...

[52:37]

So I'm glad these cultural descriptions are so true. Okay. Go ahead. I could tell about the reality of the ideas in the perspective of the town or the city, and about the protections, because we are living in the world of protection, too. What power can cure with this real world of ideas and protection? Yeah. You want to say it in German, too? So you want to say, she said the same thing?

[53:48]

So what you're asking is how do you deal with this world of these descriptions when they're so real? Yeah, that's the problem. Where are you? She went under the water. I lost my voice. I cannot see, I cannot say it is a description. It's your word. Yeah, it's my word, okay.

[54:49]

Well, I can't say much about that because I think you have to come to the point where you actually, as I've said, see it as a description. And then you still have to have the skills of dealing with it as a description. Because it's one, our shared reality. But if you think that's the only way your friend exists, you're going to have a rather narrow relationship with your friend. Now, the practice of Buddhism which I want to talk about next is how to get at the root of description. But I would just say one thing about the five skandhas.

[56:22]

The first three are form, feelings, perceptions. And when you practice zazen, one of the things you're trying to do is slow down the movement between feelings and perceptions. You have a feeling about something, and it turns into a perception. For example, you hear a little music. And maybe it's quite in the distance, but you begin to feel something, and then, oh, yeah, it's coming from that music.

[57:27]

As soon as you say it's coming from the music, you've entered a perception. When you're just feeling it, we don't say that, although in English you call that also a perception, technically it's not a perception. Perception means to grasp it, to take hold of it. So when you begin to see that distinction between having a feeling and then you grasp it and say, oh, that's a particular piece of music, Oh, and I remember when I heard it and it makes me think of my mother or something like that.

[58:28]

The more you slow that down so you can let the feeling happen without it turning into a description... You begin to see that that description that came up first eliminates other descriptions. If you can stay with the feeling and not let it move into perception or description, Many more descriptions arise and if you stay with it long enough or move into it and let it appear somewhere else in your body You often find there's memories there that you didn't know and you haven't incorporated into your description.

[59:33]

And that experience repeatedly coming up in zazen makes you finally know this is a description. It doesn't mean it's not real. It just means it's only a part of it. Now, I don't know if this kind of detail is helpful to you, but it's actually hard to really get this stuff, even though it's very simple. But you see, Buddhism is a do-it-yourself religion. Yeah, we're not depending on grace. We're just trying to give you, okay, here's the recipe, it's up to you to cook. I'm trying to give you the recipe. And so I try to give you the recipe.

[60:48]

This is a complete misunderstanding. That's simplistic Zen. And actually a kind of heretical Zen. Often taught. And that's Zen reverting too much into its Theravadan roots. Now Zen often, because of its emphasis on meditation, is the kind of Theravadan version of Mahayana. It's the Theravadan version of Mahayana.

[61:49]

See, here's what happens. What's Theravadan? Oh, okay. What's Mahayana? No, it's both together. Theravadan version of Mahayana. Okay. Back to base. Okay. There was this guy called Buddha. And he was a person like us. Probably littler than us, but he was a guy. And he experienced enlightenment and was some sort of extraordinary person. and saw through it that out of Hinduism he created a certain teaching.

[62:50]

Okay. The early followers of the Buddha, proponents of Buddhism, are called Hinayana. But it's not polite to call Hinayana Hinayana because it's the Mahayana name for Hinayana because Hinayana means the lesser vehicle. And Mahayana means the greater vehicle. And no one wants to be called the lesser vehicle. And in fact, It's just different, it's really not lesser.

[64:02]

But from the point of view of Mahayana, it's lesser. But if you're polite, you call Hinayana Theravada. Because the present school of Hinayana that survived, the present surviving school is the Theravada school. There were many schools, but the one that survived is called Theravada. Okay, so there's the Buddha and then there's Theravada teachers. And then Mahayana came along and really, with Nagarjuna, really, really almost made a new kind of Buddhism. And this new kind of Buddhism developed and developed and developed, and the sort of top, the end product of those developments is Tantra and Zen.

[65:08]

And Zen developed in China. And developed in a highly sophisticated urbanized culture. a very literate urbanized culture. Even though many of these Zen masters lived out in caves and in the mountains, they were still part of a very literate urbanized culture. And Buddhism came into this culture that had been largely developed through Confucianism and Taoism. And what was characteristic of Confucianism and Taoism is that they said there is no other.

[66:10]

Everything is here. There's no other out there where it is. And as I said, China had developed this rich everyday life. This everyday life which was the scene of their whole life. This Mahayana development as Zen invented itself and disguised itself in everyday life. Now, something quite different happened in Tibet. Tibet is a mountainous peasant culture where people live separated by great distances in remote kind of And people had a pretty primitive way of life.

[67:33]

So when Indian and probably Chinese Buddhism came into Tibet, there was no everyday life that Buddhism could be embedded in. So basically Buddhism transformed the life and developed on top of the everyday life. So you get a very explicit form of Buddhism. Not hidden, all worked out. And so Tibet has a very sophisticated Buddhist culture, to say the least, but a quite primitive everyday culture. And if you've gone to northern India or Tibet or Nepal,

[68:34]

And you've seen these young six or eight or ten-year-olds being taught by the Buddhist teachers. They arrive, they don't know how to read, write, anything. They're just real... Simple people. And their entire education is Buddhist. So it's very different the way Buddhism entered China. It had to adjust itself to a very sophisticated everyday culture. So it became part of Chinese culture rather than a culture on top of Chinese culture. All right. Now, the result of that was Zen was so well disguised within society as everyday life. And its overt form was so Theravadan that many people thought it was really just a form of Theravadan practice.

[70:08]

And in Theravadan practice, in its simple form, you clear the mind, you get rid of it. And that's the denial of all of Mahayana. That's why I said Zen practice, essential inner posture is uncorrected, unfabricated mind. Means you're not clearing your mind. You're existing with all of the stuff in there in a way that's clear. And it's a simple mistake to try to clear your mind. It goes against the nature of mud and what our life is actually like.

[71:14]

And that's truly a gradual practice and not a sudden practice. sudden practice means you've got all the stuff you see it differently gradual practice you get rid of this and you get rid of that and then four more things come in and you get rid of those yeah it's not very effective Or it produces a rather different kind of person than Zen Tantra Mahayana produces. No, that's a good question you asked. Because that's a real basic misunderstanding of true Zen.

[72:14]

A pervasive misunderstanding. But when I say uncorrected state of mind, I think I've cleared it all up and you now understand. So I have to be reminded that I haven't been very clear and have to teach better and so forth. So it's helpful for me, I say, when you tell me something, so we get these things clear, because if you don't understand the basics, you're in trouble elsewhere. And if you really understand one basic, Really understand one basic, it leads to all the streets in Dharma City. And that's one characteristic of Buddhism.

[73:30]

Each thing understood thoroughly leads to all other parts. It's like if in mathematics you really understood zero or one, Most of mathematics would appear. So it's really better to really understand one thing thoroughly. Okay, Herman? Can you explain uncorrected mind positively? I mean, now you've just explained what it is not. Mm-hmm. Radiance? What would you mean by positive? I mean that saying, but it's not... Well, I'm not really saying what it's not as I'm pointing to its gate.

[74:40]

And the problem is that in such descriptions, I think it's so much harder work to translate than to talk. The problem is that language is part of the divided world. So I'm using language to describe the undivided world. So because I'm using language which is divided, I can't say much except that it's undivided. Because there's no language to describe the undivided. So I'm afraid we're stuck with that kind of description.

[76:01]

But there are other gates than uncorrected, so I will try to tell you some of those gates. Yeah. I have two questions. What is the one taste in my breast? Let me deal with that first. Do you mean my reference to it as one taste or your experience of it as one taste? I would like to know how you would describe the specific taste of... I want to describe a specific taste of residing in your breath.

[77:18]

This is your word taste, not my word taste. What you were talking yesterday in the evening and this morning... I said one taste? No, my question is, can you give a taste of... You talked about taste this morning. Can you give a taste of how it feels, what the senses like being in the breath? Feeling for it, okay. Yes. Whether it is a body feeling when it happens, or a mental feeling, or where it takes place. Okay. The trouble I was having is that the technical term called one taste And the technical term is, if you put Zen on a pyramid of, it has to be a reverse pyramid too, on a pyramid of more and more developed teachings.

[78:27]

One taste is right at the top and the only thing above it is non-meditation. So I was trying to understand if I really had to talk about that. Okay. taste or feeling for it residing in your breath. I've been doing this for so long it's hard for me to remember where to start. Because for me the experience is quite developed, but it may not be possible for me to point out that.

[79:36]

I should point out something from when I first started practicing and I don't know if I can remember. I think, first of all, you have to get into the habit of bringing your attention to your breath. You do this drumming, right? You do the strumming? Yes. It was the reason why I asked this question, because my experience is that I happen to realise this surface by music, by practising the music. Sometimes it happens, this feeling, I call it just joy of existence, and I feel I'm right in this point. But I don't know whether it is what you mean, being in the breath.

[80:40]

It is as if everything is centered. And then at this moment I realize myself not divided or undivided. That's one way to approach it, what you just said. I met the man you practice with. What is his name? Reinhardt. He was at the Potsdam conference. I also saw him years ago in Bad Homburg at a conference. I also saw him years ago in Bad Homburg at a conference. And I was studying him very carefully because I was trying to see what the difference is.

[81:50]

He studies Korean drumming and not Japanese drumming. I'm going to tell you about this because I think it relates a little bit. He does. So I was trying to understand what's the difference between Korean drumming and Japanese drumming and what's the difference between Asian drumming and a Westerner doing it. One difference is that, in my opinion, he is more precise than Asians. It's more choreographed. It's almost mathematical in its musical, in its kind of boom, [...] exactly right.

[82:53]

Now, the Japanese don't do that. The Koreans might. I don't know Korean drumming. I only know Japanese drumming. because, as I understand it, the Japanese really don't want it to be mental in any way, and to be real precise, it has to be mental. In Buddhist way of looking at things, the world doesn't exist. Und die buddhistische Art und Weise, jetzt Dinge zu betrachten, ist die wirklich davon auszugehen, dass die Welt nicht existiert. And the world also doesn't not exist. Und außerdem existiert die Welt auch wiederum. It both exists and it doesn't exist.

[83:55]

Sie existiert und sie existiert nicht. Beides stimmt. And because of that, it's a pulse between existence and non-existence. Und aus diesem Grunde haben wir so einen Puls zwischen Existenz und Nicht-Existenz. And that pulse creates a little unevenness. And it creates a kind of way to enter into something. To enter Dharma City and Berlin simultaneously. But he's very good, I must say. And I actually, I'm saying this on tape, I'm sorry, but I actually spoke to him and said pretty much the same thing to him in person. And he gave me one of his discs, which was sweet of him.

[84:56]

I was standing in the audience watching him. I guess I was just looking at him, but very carefully. Trying to feel his body. And later when I saw him back at the hotel, I'd never met him. He said, while I was drumming, those eyes of yours... While I was drumming, your eyes... I was like... Anyway, but when he did his teaching people the basic rhythms with his voice, I don't know how to do it. Could you tell me a few of them? Maybe later.

[86:04]

No, right now. Can you do it? Just a couple. Takatina? Yeah. Well, they are the fundamental archetypes of... I know, but just do two or three of them. Takatina, you use very often. Just say them. Just say them. Just say them. Yeah, just do that a couple, yeah. Do it a couple times. Three. I'm sorry. I'm going to come. I'm going to come. Don't think, just do it. Okay, this is another good Zen lesson. As much as possible, you don't think, you just do it. But when you were willing to do it there, when you were caught unawares, when she was willing to do it there for a moment, when she was caught unawares, when you were willing to do it there for a moment,

[87:09]

That sound, when he kept doing it, I suddenly was on the streets of Tokyo. I was suddenly, or Kyoto. And not, or Thailand. But not in Europe, America, or England. And he taught me something. Because I suddenly realized the basic rhythm of people walking on the streets, the cars honking, etc. With the rhythms he was teaching and how the drum is based. And I was standing there listening to it. And I suddenly had images of Kyoto appearing around me. And then I experimented.

[88:12]

Does that feel like London or New York or Berlin? No, it didn't. So he's really got the feeling of a kind of basic rhythm that Asian cultures have. And it made me realize why I get along so well with Asian people, is because I somehow have got that, I know how to do that. Okay, so when you're working with the drum, And you're trying to find the pace of the drum and the pace of your own body and where you can locate yourself so you don't think. Because you think you can't hit the drum that way. You have to release yourself.

[89:24]

And you have to find a spot in your stomach or some place where you can hold yourself in a sense and release yourself. Isn't that correct? Yes. Now, if you know that place and you put that place into your breath or anywhere else, but into your breath. That would be residing in your breath. Okay. Now, one of the things that happens when you learn to reside in your breath outside your thoughts and outside of representational thinking you learn the feeling of residing in your breath, which develops more and more. Then you can move that feeling to elsewhere in your body. And that's one way you open up your chakras.

[90:27]

You move that feeling to a particular chakra. And if you really know the feeling, you can actually see your chakras. You can see them turning. And all directions, not just this way, this way, but this way, this way, this way, etc. And all directions. But that kind of inner body skill requires, first of all, something like being able to reside in your breath. Because if you reside in representational thinking, it's impossible to see your child. Because if one is really trapped in this representative thinking, it is completely impossible to be in one's chakras.

[91:42]

I would like to add another question. When you said about the uneven of this causation, you know, in the beginning, that uneven, it reminds me that I have a lot of trouble with Reinhardt as my teacher. He wants to be very precise, and I most realized by myself that The joyful quality is in that uneven energy. And he always tells me, you are not in your basis, you are not precise. And that causes a lot of stress and brings me all the time in the mental level.

[92:25]

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