Good morning. Guten Morgen. I hope you don't mind if Marie-Louise translates for me sometimes. For the last 20 months, Sophia has kept Marie-Louise from translating. And today we have a saintly angel who has arrived to take care of Sophia. So maybe sometimes she can translate as well as Christian sometimes. And it is wonderful, as I said last night, for me to explore, discuss this topic, the mind of Buddha with you.

[01:17]

I learned a lot in trying to find some way to speak about this with you. Ich lerne enorm viel davon, wenn ich versuche herauszufinden, wie ich mit euch darüber sprechen kann. I learn because I can feel, to some extent, the participation of your own minds. Und ich lerne so viel davon, weil ich zu einem gewissen Grad die Teilnahme eures Geistes dabei spüre. Now, I don't know if you've thought about how radical this question is, this title is, The Mind of the Buddha. How the heck do we know anything about the mind of the Buddha?

[02:22]

Yes, there's the tradition of transmission of mind to mind. And it's, you know, it has a tremendous historical accuracy for about 1500 years. Yeah, at least these people knew each other. That's a long time. But it still has a lot of time. Another thousand years earlier, we don't have such clear historical records.

[03:24]

And there's a lot of mythology. Quickly notes earlier years. Now, in any case, mind can't be just transmitted. It also has to be renewed. Yes. And I also assume the evolution of mind. And the real difference in culture of mind. Yeah, the different mind the different mind, the different cultural minds.

[04:27]

Now, of course, the teaching of Buddhism is that the mind of Buddha is a possibility for all of us. And since you're here in a Zen school lineage, the emphasis is more on mind than on the Dharma as a specific teaching. Now I apologize for spending so much time last night on the idea of a beautiful life and the Middle Ages.

[05:40]

It took a little longer than I expected to talk about it. But I still think I'll come back to it occasionally during these two days. Because I want us to get the feeling of how important the cultural configuration is in which we practice. The mind of the Buddha? Do you even know the mind of your spouse?

[06:51]

Or your children or your friends? Well, to some extent we do. Mm-hmm. And the practice in Buddhism is to create conditions through which we can know each other's minds. But what minds are we knowing? Yes, I just, you know, really want to kind of at this point explore this with you. Now, people often ask me, yeah, what about the promise of Buddhism that it will end suffering? Yeah, and I think Buddhism does promise that. Most of us take it with grains of salt, with a lot of skepticism.

[08:07]

But people ask me quite often, what about this end of suffering? They especially ask me when they remember the suffering of a Sashin. What is all this bull about ending suffering when you're making us suffer? I'm sorry, I apologize in advance for next coming up Sushin. But no one asks me, what mind doesn't suffer? That would be a much more sophisticated question. Yeah. But we're not there yet, somehow, to ask that question.

[09:13]

Yeah. You know, it's like the question, among the three minds of Buddha, which one does not fall into any category? That question assumes something about mind, that allows such a question to be asked and assumes the same things about mind which would lead to the question what mind doesn't suffer. So I think we need to What we need to do probably actually is forget about this topic.

[10:27]

As a way of approaching the topic. Let's forget about that. Let's ask questions like, what mind doesn't suffer? No, no, sorry, what did he just say, the question? Let's ask questions like, what mind doesn't suffer? Ah, okay, correct. Sounds all right. Yeah. You know, I... It's taken me... You know how stupid I am, especially when it comes to German. And I have almost zero oral memory. Oral hearing.

[11:31]

I actually can't remember a sound that someone tells me. I can't repeat it. Barely. But I'm having fun chanting the Heart Sutra in the morning in German. my mouth and tongue and roof of my mouth have to find a new topography. He's taken several visits to Hannover and many years here to be able to pronounce the word Hannover sort of correctly. It's also an English word because it was the royal family of England until Queen Victoria, I guess, something like that.

[12:32]

And it's Hannover. And it took me a long time not to have the over part, the word over there, overpower Hanover. So then I had to separate the syllables. Instead of Han, it's Ha. Hannover. And I was very proud of myself. Hannover. Marie-Louise said to me, it's not Hannover, it's Hannover. How am I supposed to know a V sounds like an animal's skin?

[13:34]

I'm sure that anyone hearing me say Hannover would understand I'm not a native speaker. So now I wait for further improvements, but I now say Hannover. I'm waiting for further improvements, but for now I'll say Hannover. It took Gerald years to get me to not say bad Sackingham. But in England, villages end in ham. Yeah. Okay. So it anyway took me I couldn't get the fur part until I got the ha-no part.

[14:53]

So the point I'm making is it takes time to shift one's mental habits. At least what I'd like to do this seminar is have us more able to notice our experience in new ways. Yeah. Now there's of course a tendency in the West to try to absorb Buddhism.

[16:12]

Es gibt eine Tendenz im Westen, den Buddhismus zu absorbieren und ihn in eine Art Psychologie zu verwandeln oder Christentum oder in eine Art universelle Religion zu verwandeln. Und Buddhismus passt wirklich in keine von diesen Kategorien. If you're going to practice, I really want you to notice it's different instead of trying to make it similar. Of course, we have to find similarities in our own experience. Yeah, we can't make any progress in practice. But I'd like us to, again, not turn it into something less dangerous. Okay. So we have to create some kind of mental space.

[17:38]

Mental space. Now, as I often point out, a child learning ABC, the alphabet, one, two, three, four, five, is one of the very first steps in creating mental space. The mind has to be able to see things separate from each other. So Sophia looks out the window and says, man, and then she says, other man. Yeah, and those kinds of distinctions are part of the structure of mind. Don't think they're exactly natural.

[18:50]

We create, it's natural perhaps to create some kind of mental space. But initially we create a mental space with here and there. Now, what about Yuan Wu who says, realize a mind without either here or there? Now again, most of you know Yuan Wu was the compiler and author of the Blue Cliff Records and one of the other handful of creators of Zen Buddhism. What mind is he talking about that has neither here nor there? Yeah, but we have to create some kind of mental space.

[20:09]

And a mental space that allows us to function in the world, the physical world. And although that mental space allows us to function very well in the external world, it's not identical to the external world. The biggest distinction I can point out is whether you feel separated or connected with the external world.

[21:10]

And that's first of all a cultural distinction and secondarily a psychological distinction. Okay. Yeah. Now, we create a fairly, we create a mental space, a mental world space. That's confirmed by our living in the world. So it's also a learning space.

[22:21]

But we don't know atoms. That's part of our external world, but our sensory apparatus doesn't allow us to know atoms. Or does it? Why did early Buddhists have a whole molecular atomic kind of theory before there were microscopes or any way to... electron microscopes or anything? Yeah, maybe it's just a kind of philosophical development. But I do know the minutia in which we experience time is culturally formed. And one aspect of Dharma practice is to experience time in much smaller moments than normally we do, than normally we, yeah, than we usually do.

[23:52]

So that's a little riff on world space. And then I would say we have the creation of a thought space. A thought space in which I merely created my language. But also developed by speculation. But by that I mean, I think one of the Earmarks, do you have such an expression? One of the... Earmarks, earmarks. That's in the book. No, that's bookmark. One of the marks of Greek culture is that there's a shift from the dogmatism of earlier cultures to speculation over generations.

[25:23]

Yes, so that over many generations ideas developed. That creates a certain kind of thought space. And I would say that For sure, the Western thought space is one of the great creations of human beings. It's allowed the development of science, Western science, medicine, and so forth. Okay. Yeah, that's good that we have a particular thought space.

[26:47]

Now we have to ask, maybe is yogic thought space something different? Or is there some relationship to thought space that's different in yogic culture? Or is there some relationship to thought space? Which is different in a yogic culture. Okay. So that's some comments about thought space. Now we also have to create some kind of identity space. How our identity functions in relationship to world space. I'm making this up as I go along, just speaking from my own experience here.

[27:55]

Okay, so you have to have some sense of your own power and existence within this field of gravity. Okay. this field of gravity. So your identity space does not have to be your thought space. Now I would say that in our culture, one thing that distinguishes us in Western culture And I would say that what distinguishes our culture from other cultures is that we have created our identity space inside of thought space.

[29:07]

Maybe that's good. How do I know? Maybe it's good. Perhaps it's what allows democracy. Because in a democracy you have to trust every person. There's no king around who says, off with his head. We like Andreas, but he's messing around with that Buddhist stuff in Hannover. Off with his head. So, democracy depends on each person governing themselves. I think self-government is probably easier to accomplish in a society if identity is inside of thought space.

[30:43]

People whose identity is established not established in thought space, are probably pretty dangerous. They may not think the way everyone else thinks. You can't get them to vote the way you want, et cetera. Now our culture is also externalized identity. I'm still not talking about the subject, the mind of the Buddha.

[31:49]

Yeah, and I think we do need some kind of externalized identity. I mean, we couldn't get Sophia to do anything unless we got her to externalize her identity. Denn wir brächten auch Sophia zu überhaupt gar nichts, wenn sie nicht ein bisschen ihre Identität veräußerlicht. She has to care what we think and she has to, you know, etc. That requires us to manipulate her to some extent. Also sie muss sich darum kümmern, was wir denken, und da müssen wir sie auch manipulieren ein bisschen. Yeah, in previous times it probably was just normal. Everybody lived in a local space. News was things like processions in the street. For example, Wiesinger again, as long as people were, as the king was on foreign soil, there were continuous for hundreds of days processions in streets of Paris.

[33:13]

When he was outside of France, they had everyday processions in Paris to tell people he was not in Paris. Yeah, and when there was a victory, all the church bells would ring. When there was a new pope, the bells would ring for days. That's not CNN. It's a whole different relationship to the world. You don't really know what's going on. And when you went shopping, you shopped with friends at a local market. Now we shop in the same stores all over the world. So the externalization and commercialization of identity is much more serious now.

[34:28]

One of the most famous early sociologists in America, early in my lifetime, was David Reisman. And he posed the idea of outer-directed people and inner-directed people. And if I remember correctly, that's really a psychological type of person. Some of us are inner-directed, some of us are outer-directed. But I would maintain that all of us, practically inter-directed people too, are under tremendous pressure to externalize their identity. Man, if you want to practice anything close to the mind of Buddha, you have to notice how much your identity is externalized.

[35:49]

Just count your thoughts. How many of your thoughts are about what other people think about you? Or what you're dressed in or so forth, what you're wearing. And so forth. Now, we should take a break soon, but let me say a couple more things. So, we think of the mind, most of us think of the mind as being inside the body. And we not only think of it as being internal to the body, we mostly think of it as being in our head. And mind and our identity is somewhere up here. And you can know that's the case if you think your feet are down there.

[37:15]

Obviously, if you think your feet are down there, you think your identity and mind is up here. Now, I usually define mind, as I did for our pre-day discussion, reminded us yesterday. That the mind is located, that a mind, a particular mind, is homeostatic and self-organizing. Now I'd like to add, though I've mentioned this before, I've never combined it as part of the definition. The mind is homeostatic, self-organizing, and located at a particular place in the body. And that location can be changed.

[38:47]

No, I don't think that's another question. Where's your mind located in your body? We don't usually ask that question. Although we know it by experience, one of the pioneers of this recognition was Graf von Durkheim, who, with his wife, Maria Hippias, started this place we're in right now. And one of the pioneers of this idea is Count von Dürkheim, who founded this place here with his wife Maria Hippius. With his book in the 60s called Hara.

[39:49]

The point of that book is, you know, the mind can also be located in the stomach, in the Hara. Probably emotionally or being in love and so forth, we can notice our mind is maybe located actually in the heart, like a valentine. So sometime when you're feeling sad, walk around and say, you can sit around too or walk around and feel, I'm sad. Where's the sad mind located in my body? When you are happy, say, my mind is now located in a different place in my body than when I am sad. Okay, let's sit a moment and then we'll have a break.

[41:17]

Sitting is, if it's anything, it's not a thought space. I noticed when I came in at the beginning of the... Near the end of your sitting. Many of you were looking around and noticing what I was doing and what other people were doing. This is a thought space. Zazen is the effort to relax out of thought space. At least not to encourage it by looking around and so forth.

[44:01]

But our habit of thought space is very deep. And it's coincidence, identity with our own identity. It's very strong. So it seems natural to be in thought space. But again, if Zen practice is anything, it's not to deny thought space. But it's to discover an identity outside of thought space.

[45:25]

And zazen is the effort to relax out of thought space. Into the soft bed of your breath. At least that's a good place to start. Thanks for all coming back.

[46:27]

But I prefer actually not to have a bell to end the break. I prefer to see what happens. That's good. She tells me nobody would have been here. If you're enjoying your own conversation more than ours, why not? If your own conversations are more fun for you than ours, why not? And I can always wander in here and ring a bell. So, anybody want to say anything?

[47:33]

Gerald, you had a comment. You want to share your comment with me? With everyone? I met Roshi. No, not Roshi. It's very interesting what you're saying because... Do you understand anything? No, you can say it for both of us. Okay. So it's very interesting what you said and it became apparent to me that in different cultures the mind is influenced in a different way and it even has a different structure.

[48:38]

So even the way we speak or is spoken to a child creates a different mind in this child. So Roshi said earlier, and that reminded me of that, he said that our practice here is a second or third socialization. Education, social education. Yes. Where do we set the goals of education, in contrast to the first or second education that we enjoyed, where others or society set the goals?

[49:54]

So in this further education it's us or we ourselves who determine the goals of this education in contrast to our first and second education where it was our family or society which had the goals or posed the goals. And the whole thing that Roshi is depicting somehow gave me courage, I somehow felt it. It just gives me courage to really take my things into my hands, to take my spirit into my, yes, into my construction, so to speak, and to make sure that it is that he also takes shapes that I like, where I like to have them. Is it too quick to say? They are a formable part that I can form.

[50:57]

So this really encouraged me to take charge of this myself, that I can actually shape my mind the way I want my mind to be. Now, this is a very pliable situation. Thanks. Yeah, I think we all know from anthropology that anthropological studies that... Minds are different in different cultures. But that doesn't usually transfer to our own experience as the plasticity of mind. nor the habit of seeing through the structure of mind at a more unstructured world.

[52:08]

What about that habit? Nor does the anthropological studies inculcate... You guys are so good, I think you know all the words. These anthropological studies don't give us the experience that we can look past the structure of our own world space as a more fluid, unstructured and waiting to be structured world space. What kind of space is a blackbird in a tree in? Okay, someone else?

[53:25]

Yes. I have a question concerning the thinking space. I try to look into what relationship is between my identity space and my thinking space. But therefore I first need the feeling or understanding what the thinking space is and what influence that has to me or in me. So I asked myself and probably the thinking space kind of includes a whole society.

[54:30]

If the polarities and the different thoughts are also included in this thinking space. So kind of contrary thoughts, if they are also in this space. In this space. Yeah, well, that's good. Yeah, this is good. This creates a territory of practice for you. I mean, in a way we could say our practice is guided by the subtlety of the questions we ask ourselves. Also, in gewisser Hinsicht können wir sagen, dass unsere Praxis geführt wird durch die Subtilität unserer eigenen Fragen. But even more subtle than specific questions.

[55:53]

Aber etwas, das noch subtiler ist als spezifische Fragen... It's just... increasing the subtlety with which we notice things. And if you can see your situation the way you do, this increases the subtlety with what you notice. Yeah, the Turks and Greeks both occupy Cyprus. But they have two different thinking spaces. It's the same world space almost. Island, trees, you know, et cetera. Yeah, and we have the same problem in Ireland.

[56:57]

These people are all pretty genetically Irish, I guess, whatever that is. But they have a Protestant or a Catholic thinking space. And people are willing to kill each other over that. And with Muslims, I think we often have a different world space as well as thinking space. And in a way we could say religion is the most dangerous thing in the world today. Most of these disputes are about religion. When they're about power and greed, it's easier to resolve them.

[58:00]

But religion really anchors an identity space in a world space. Then you really think these are different kind of people than you. And they are. Someone else? I have a question. I don't understand the term homeostatic. It means it tends to remain the same. Its status, its position tends to be homogeneous or remain the same. In other words, once you're in a sad mind, your mind will tend to remain sad. Unless you get a phone call.

[59:23]

Then you're real cheery. How's everything in England? It's always a mystery to me how people go from... one stays on the phone, they're just there for the night. Yeah. I'd like to hear more about the term identity. In the identity room, there is for me a kind of old opinion about myself, that I am who I am, that I have character traits.

[60:31]

The identity in the thinking space for me is a generalization about myself, how I am and what I'm doing and how I appear and so on. In what extent can one speak about identity out of the thinking space? Because identity, at least as I understand it, is a relationship between things that remain the same. Because as far as I understand it, identity is a relationship between things which remain the same. Identical, yeah. Is it the same in German? Kind of the same, yeah. Well, it's a good question.

[61:48]

And clearly I use identity in a wider sense than I use self. Self is more like some kind of observing karmic function. But identity is what we identify with. So we can notice whether what we identify with is usually confined to thought space. Or do we feel identified by a tree, for instance? How much do we feel identified by our context?

[62:51]

The more you're identified through your context, the less you're probably identified through thought space. I don't understand identified. Identify is like somebody identifies me, but what do I identify myself? Because I don't want to be like a tree. I think I look like that. Or is it a relationship where I feel like the tree feels? Translators are not supposed to cause problems. And I sometimes think you identify... Excuse me, I can't stop her. ...falsely, so you make up identification what you like to be. Yeah. I can't translate it. Yes, you try to translate it, please. Translate what you just said. I can't translate what it means to be identified.

[64:09]

Does it mean that I am recognized as or when I should identify with a tree, that I want to be like that or feel like a tree, even though I know what I am? And sometimes you want to represent yourself as something and pretend to be something and believe that you are this and that. Is das auch identifizieren? Was ist identifizieren? It took centuries before Freud came up with ego, id and so forth. I think he got id from identity. Where did he get that from? From the id part of identity. Okay.

[65:12]

So it's not actually very easy to sort out how I'm using the term identity. I have to sort of examine my own thinking. There's problems enough in English. I don't know what those problems are in German. And it's very hard, we know, to define even what we mean by soul, spirit, self, ego, etc. But I would subsume, subsume? Subsume means to make subject to a larger idea. I'd subsume ego and self to an identity process.

[66:25]

Okay, now you may not identify with a tree, but you do identify with Sophia. And you don't look Exactly like Sophia. So we do have a tendency to see the world in terms of what belongs to us and what doesn't belong to us. There's like us and not like us. As I say, the immune system is a way to... The body says what belongs to us and what doesn't belong to us. And we're always looking at the world in terms of what belongs to us and doesn't. A friend is different than a stranger.

[67:29]

Okay. And we need a continuous sense of identity. And one of the points I always make is we establish the continuity of identity through our thinking. dass wir die Kontinuität unserer Identität durch Denken schaffen. We're the same person from moment to moment.

[68:34]

And that is confirmed through a continuity of a sense of a continuous stream in our thinking. Und das wird bestätigt durch ein But not so much as a continuous stream in the world itself. Where my identity is who you are right now. And that's actually quite true. There's nothing that could predict from my childhood that could predict the kind of person I become talking to you. So in that sense, my identity isn't a continuation from some kind of fateful stream of childhood.

[69:50]

But I keep discovering my identity in my activity and in my context. Aber ich entdecke meine Identität immer in meiner Aktivität und in meinem Umfeld. So I think without changing the whole subject of the seminar, this is the best I can do right now. Und ich glaube, dass ohne jetzt das Thema des Seminars zu ändern, das so gut ist, wie ich das so erklären kann. And is Artenzo here? No, Artenzo is cooking, right? Ist der Tenso hier? Nein, er kocht. Oh, poor Tenso. What time are we supposed to have lunch? 12.30. And the kids are back at 12.30. And the kids are back at 12.30.

[70:59]

Oh, and I lose my translator at 12.30. Also um halb eins verliere ich auch meine Übersetzerin. Well, we know what your priorities are. Jetzt wisst ihr, was deine... or necessities. One more, anybody else? And then I'll try to say something else. Yes? I thought it was very interesting what she said about the telephone. Maybe it's not such a mystery, but I think something in me chooses this. And I think it has a function. I don't know who it is. I always try to ask myself who is this.

[72:01]

I'm talking on the phone. No. Is this Valentin? No, today I don't know who it is. Yeah, excuse me, go ahead. I don't really know what I'm trying to say, but I think there's something very important there. I often have the same feeling. It seems to happen to me in meditation also that some function in the organism chooses to rest with the breath or to concern itself with my thoughts.

[73:29]

I have the feeling that this is also the case in meditation, that something in me chooses to stay in the breath or to dwell in the thoughts. So I ask why or who or what is it that usually changes or usually chooses not to recognize Buddha mind? Then I usually try to get to an end to a result of this conflict, trying to find out who this is or what this is.

[74:36]

Maybe that's enough. It seems to be something generative or dialectic. It seems to be something that creates something or is something dialectical. But it is so unstable that I always try to get away from it, to get somewhere. But it is something so unstable that I always want to get away from it to get to something more stable. What you're saying is central to Zen practice.

[75:56]

And one of the things that distinguishes Zen practice from all other Buddhist teachings probably Except probably the Tibetan schools of Dzogchen and Mahamudra. Okay. Though I don't know them intimately, I know enough to know that there's a lot of similarities. And even within Zen, there's a pedagogical debate. And how much you let the mind structure itself and how much you structure it. I'm, as a teacher, much more on the side of let it structure itself than to give it structure.

[77:11]

For a lot of reasons, it would require another seminar, too. First of all, I think it's to let this happen. Second is to observe it happening. And I think third is to... bring into this meditation and mind, thought space, bring into meditation space and thought space intention.

[78:19]

Yeah, now, last night I spoke about how we have these different categories of mind, which I called Manas, Prajna and Citta, though I'm loosely defining them for our context in the West. which I have easily defined for our use here in the West. But citta is important as an intentional mind space. because intentions and vows work in almost all mind spaces.

[79:29]

My oft-repeated example is waking up at 6.02 because you intend to, even though you don't have an alarm clock. That means that intention doesn't have to have consciousness to function. And in fact, intentions made in thought space don't have much power. Like New Year's resolutions. Do they last till January 2nd? But an intention can penetrate your whole life. They say that babies, which we're sort of noticing, the first word a baby has for something stays all its life.

[81:02]

Even if you tell it this thing is called a nonsense word, it'll tend to remember that and call the nonsense word The first word in its life or the first word for an object? For an object. And I think for lack of another explanation, child psychologists call it fast mapping. like fast land maps or something like that. It's a map like a road map. But probably, the first time you hear something, it goes into, let's call it intentional mind and not thinking mind.

[82:07]

But probably, when you hear it for the first time, it goes into the intentional mind and not into the thinking mind. Now, what I'm saying is all coming out of my trying to find some way to talk about the mind I've discovered, the minds I've discovered through practice. The minds I've discovered through practice. So sometimes I actually change the way I say something or the way I think of something. But what actually surprises me is how little I change. If I go back 10, 15, 20, 30 years and look at lectures, I'm pretty much saying the same thing.

[83:13]

Oh, I say them differently. I say them in a much more developed way. A way much more integrated with the whole of teaching. But I seldom have to change basic observation. That means that my, what I'm trying to say is grounded in a very basic experience. in a very basic observation.

[84:14]

But what I'm emphasizing here is please share in my experiment of how to talk about these things. So if you form an intention, to not receive so many telephone calls during Zazen. And stay more with, say, Zazen mind or Buddha mind. That intention just the presence of that intention will have an effect. You don't have to force yourself to follow the intention, you just have to hold the intention.

[85:20]

But the main thing is, I think, to deepen our intention but also to simultaneously just observe what happens. Observe what happens. So the first form of the intention is to sit in zazen. And the second form of it is to actually try to find some subtlety in your posture. And the third form is to decide to sit for a specific length of time. That's the kind of embodiment of your intention. Das ist so die Verkörperung von eurer Absicht. And then to try to let your mind sort of relax out of thought space, as I said.

[86:49]

Und dann ist es, dass ihr euch euren Geist aus diesem Gedankenraum heraus entspannen lasst. Now, if you've done all those things, you've already done a great deal. So at some point, then you relax and let the mind do what it does. And observe, well, what happens? I'll tell you a funny anecdote though about telephones that I told before, of course. I got quite good at working with phrases and questions. And one time I was working with a question. And while I was sitting Zazen, I was staying with the question.

[87:57]

But somewhere in my mind space, a telephone was ringing. And I said, oh, I'm being distracted. So I kept trying to ignore it. And every now and then in my mind space, I'd look over and I'd see this telephone. It was ringing away. Then I was surprised to see that it was a brown telephone. Like brown robes or something. In those days, telephones were all black. None of these designer telephones. Yeah, so I finally decided, I'll answer it. So I went over in my mind space and answered the question.

[89:05]

And it told me the answer to my question. So that taught me something about distractions. Is it a distraction or is it not a distraction? And it's also, this is an aside, but it's also interesting, although people can change their mental space to another, say, identity, when the telephone rings. They can't do it so easily if someone comes to the door. If you're in a bad mood or upset or sad and someone comes to the door, when you open the door, not only can the person see what your mood is, You yourself can't change your mental space because it's more tied to your body space if a person is looking at you.

[90:10]

Okay. It's hard to sort these things out. I'm sorry. It takes a while. Okay. Thank you, though, for the questions there. Fruitful. Yeah, we're trying to discover, I think we're doing it, some kind of shared space now, shared feeling of what some sort of mind-body territory.

[91:11]

Sorry. We're beginning to have a shared feeling of some kind of mind-body territory. We begin to share a feeling about... Now, if our culture doesn't try to absorb Buddhism, it'll probably ridicule it. Or just brush it off. Some quirky New Age stuff. And that will be reinforced by those who use Buddhism as a platform to attack Western culture and religion. Or Society will replace one of the goals of our Western society will replace one of its goals with a goal of Buddhism.

[92:37]

For example, the goal of freedom from suffering. Or the goal of enlightenment. What could be wrong with that? Well, it depends on what context this goal is now functioning. If it replaces our goal for a beautiful life, Now, Wiesinger says, every culture dreams of, desires a beautiful life. Yeah, it's a powerful and dramatic statement. I don't know if it's true.

[93:50]

Maybe some societies want an engaged life. Maybe some societies want an anonymous life.

[93:56]

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