Good morning. When I'm giving session talks, Each time I give a talk, there's so many things that come into my mind that it's hard to decide what exactly to talk about because it's a matter of process of elimination. Because my mind is working continuously. I'm thinking about what we were talking about yesterday, when I was talking about the inanimate preaching the Dharma, expounding the Dharma continuously.

[01:14]

I think the problem that we have is thinking in terms of animate and inanimate. You can never really resolve animate and inanimate. Because we think, as it was defined yesterday, animate means with consciousness. That was the definition we used. And inanimate is without consciousness. What Tozan and his teachers are talking about is beyond animate and inanimate, beyond consciousness, what we call consciousness. Because animate, dividing into animate and inanimate is a dualistic process.

[02:18]

So as long as you have this dualistic process, you can never resolve it. or even understand it completely. So, instead of saying animate and inanimate, to simply say all life is continuously expounding the Dharma. So, if you say all life, then you might think, well, this is, there are different kinds of life. So, life, well, any term you use, has its problems. But life is inclusive of everything. Everything on Earth is, if we're thinking in terms of Earth or Cosmos, cosmically, cosmic life and personal life. This is what we're always concerned with. Cosmic life and personal life. And then we divide into cosmic and personal.

[03:23]

That's another duality. But actually, our life is both cosmic and personal at the same time. Suzuki Roshi says, our cosmic life is the most personal thing. Our practice is very personal. And yet, there's no person. So if we say, if we look at what we call inanimate objects and think of them more as, think of everything more as, everything is expressing life, whatever that means. Or you can invent another word. All beings are expressing, much better, all life is expressing How do you spell that keyword?

[04:29]

But everything is presenting itself. Everything in the universe is presenting itself. Here am I, my personal life. Everything is doing that. A grain of rice is expressing its personal life. It's a grain of rice person. As I was saying yesterday, when I used to do this sweat lodge with Little Bear at Pine Valley, and we'd heat up these rocks all day long, big fire, and they'd be red. And then someone would take a little basket and bring the rock in, and everyone would say, welcome, rock person. It was very intimate. Red Rock was expressing something very, that we had to be very careful with.

[05:32]

And then Little Bear would take his dipper and go, and the steam would, water from the steam would come out, and everybody hit the ground. Because you can't stand it if you're sitting up or standing up. Anyway, so a grain of rice is a living being. Every single grain of rice is a living being. My feeling about cooking rice is that we should understand, that I like to understand, I'll put it that way, that I want to bring out the quality of every grain and let it cook from the inside so that they don't destroy its life. And when you eat it, its chemical nature is transforming and becomes my nature. It becomes part of my body and its elements are becoming part of myself.

[06:45]

So, my person. So apples, each one of those apples is a complete being in itself, expressing itself completely. To me, this is the nature of how we prepare food. We don't try to fix it, but we try to bring out its nature so that it's still alive when we're eating it. In Asia, people eat live fish. I can remember being in a restaurant and the guy peeling the fish when it's live and then, you know, that's a little, that's going too far. This is like honoring the food, right?

[07:50]

Instead of destroying it, you're honoring it as a living being. And this is how we become one with, one way that we become one with our environment and with the living beings around us. So, everything is, you know, the apple is saying that this is the secret of dharma, right here. The grain of rice is saying this is the absolute total expression of the universe as this living being, living grain of rice. So, when we make this effort to understand the nature of each

[08:50]

each one of these sentient beings, non-sentient sentient beings, we don't know what they feel. Although, you know, back in the 70s or 80s, someone did a study of cutting cabbage and they could hear this cabbage scream. At least, you know, that was the understanding. But whales, we also know that whales talk as well, you know. Everything's talking to each other and it all life forms are talking to each other in some way. If we were really totally sentient beings, we would be able to hear the ants talking to each other. But we're very limited in our sentient composition. And we hear so little, we see so little, We feel so little, but we think that we are really great and expansive.

[10:01]

And so then we look at the other forms of life and we say, well, you know, they don't speak. The evolvement of language is so removed from directness. It's like something made up. whereas other forms of life are so highly developed. We call them the lower forms of life, but that's our ego, our misunderstanding, because the lower forms of life are such higher forms that they don't need all this interpretation. They speak directly, they act directly, and they're all teaching us But when something is teaching us, we have this tendency to destroy it. It's true. When the pilgrims landed, the Indians were willing to teach them, but we destroyed them.

[11:09]

Destroyed the culture. And now we're saying, oh yeah, the Indians had this and they understood that, but it's too late, sort of. And we go around the world destroying other cultures because they're primitive. But every culture has its way of maintaining itself. And if you start taking the pieces out of it and replacing them with something else, they fall apart. Culture is a very delicate structure. Dogen has a... I realize he has a fancicle on this subject. Tozan's question about the insensitivity of preaching the Dharma.

[12:15]

Although, I think pretty much as a non-sentient being. Unless we realize that we're all non-sentient beings, we cannot understand what a sentient being is. Because we have not put ourselves in the place of being a non-sentient being. So how can we possibly understand non-sentient beings? How can we possibly understand our self-ascension beings. This is a great point. This is a wonderful koan for us because we always look at something from the point of view of self-centeredness.

[13:22]

It's hard to step out of our self and see things from a different perspective. It's hard for us to see things from, or understand things from a Buddhist perspective. When we study the Heart Sutra, it's so kind of baffling because it's from the point of view of, it's Buddha's point of view, not an ordinary person's point of view. The point of our practice is to bring every moment to life. Dogen says, if you rely on the truth, then that's a big mistake.

[14:44]

If you create the truth, that's dharma. It looks like there's some truth and that we have to try to base our life on it. But actually, we are creating the truth all the time. This is a big koan for us. You know, in Asia, and some of the islands in the Pacific, and all around Asia, people make religious statues, religious figures, but they're not alive. They're not alive until they paint in the eyes. Then there's a ritual of painting in the eyes. And if we look at that, and also we do that, you know, when we have a Buddha figure that comes into the zendo, we have a ceremony of painting in the eyes, eye opening, actually eye opening ceremony.

[16:00]

We don't give it eyes, we open the eyes. And so this connection between our creativity and creating something inside and giving it life outside. And the life that we give to something outside reflects the life inside. So it's a complete cycle of inside. There's no inside or outside. We say this is outside, but the outside comes from the inside and the outside reflects back. to the inside, so it's really a circle with no outside or inside. And sometimes you think, well that's just primitive stuff, which it is, fortunately. So, so-called primitive people, as we know, I'm not telling you so we know,

[17:10]

relate to everything as the one body. You know, with the Indians, the eagle said something, and the tortoise said something, and all the animals have their place in relationship. In Mahayana Buddhism, especially in Zen Buddhism, The old saying, the true human body is the whole universe, is what we have to understand. And our whole practice is geared toward, or pointed toward, realizing that The true human body is the whole universe. So, this is called waking up.

[18:16]

Every once in a while, we wake up. Zazen is waking up, moment by moment. Just being in this moment. When we're just in this moment, without thought coverings, then we become We're in the state of awe or wonder because the present moment is revealing itself as it is. But often we think that it's boredom. Because it's not satisfying the busyness of our creative mind. Not that our creative mind is bad. often our creative mind obstructs the reality of now without any discrimination.

[19:23]

So, Jim? Yes. You know, there's something that I'm really perplexed with and moving towards that state of awe or that state of really appreciating everything, I feel like there's a conflict that presents itself. For example, I'm on my way to Zazen. I'm coming here and it's been raining and then there's all these worms on the sidewalk and I feel like I'm Zazen is that's but then there's all these worms and there's I feel like there's these conflicts that present themselves the more I sort of expand to you know there's the sidewalk pay attention you're walking or well but I'm supposed to be here but now I got to take care of these worms. That's a great comment. It's the koan that we all have. That's great. It's okay. Rescue the worms.

[20:29]

If you feel that the worms should be rescued, rescue the worms in place of Zazen. Rescuing worms first, Zazen second. Why? Well, then never mind. This story. You may have heard of the story that Tassajara We used to have this huge mokugyo. It was destroyed in fire. Big mokugyo, the big beater. And Suzuki was usually there, and I was doing the beater. And there was a spider. But the beaters, the vibration was so strong that it was drawing the spider into the center

[21:40]

And at the end, I asked Suzuki Roshi a question, you know. I told him the story. I said, well, what should I do? He said, if you feel that you don't want to hit the spider, just stop and let everything fall into chaos. It's okay. You don't always know what's right. You have to decide what's right on the spot. This is called following the living precepts. It's deciding what's right on the spot, on each moment. That's live precepts. So you're talking about the live precepts. The dead precepts would be, I should do this and I should do that. But the line precept is, I understand I should do this and that, but when the push comes to shove, I have to decide what to do. So, this is called saving all beings.

[22:56]

One time you might want to just go to Zazen, the other time you may feel that you need to deal with the worms. Either way is okay, but you have to decide. So the question came up yesterday, or the day before, something like that. The monk asked, can you hear it, Ho-Shan? And he said, no, I can't, replied the national teacher. The monk said, if you haven't heard it, how do you know that Nonsense, you're being disbounded Dharma. And the national teacher said, fortunately, I haven't heard it. If I had, I would be the same as the sages, and you, therefore, would not hear the Dharma that I teach. In that case, ordinary people would have no part in it, said the monk. I teach for ordinary people, not sages, replied the national teacher.

[24:02]

What happens after ordinary people hear you, asked the monk. They are no longer ordinary people, said the national teacher. the monk asked, according to which sutra does it say that non-Sindhian beings expound the dharma? Kulani, you shouldn't suggest that it's not part of the sutras. Haven't you seen it in the Avatamsaka Sutra? It says, the earth expounds dharma, living beings expound it throughout the three times. Everything expounds it. Then Dongshan said, I still don't understand. And would the master please comment? And then Guishan raised his fly whisk and said, do you understand? No, I don't. Please, Hoshang, explain, replied Dongshan. And Guishan said, it can never be explained to you by means of the mouth of one born of mother and father.

[25:04]

And Dongshan asked, does the master have any contemporaries and the way they sense into union. So there's a little story here about Dengxian. Dengxian during a memorial service for Yunyan, who was his last teacher. So it says, during a memorial service for Yunyan, before Yunyan's portrait, the monk asked, when the former master said, just this far, read this, first, when Tungshan was leaving Yunyan, Yunyan asked, where are you going?

[26:09]

Dongshan replied, although I am leaving you, I still haven't decided where I'll stay. And then Yunyan asked, are you going to Honan? And, no, replied Dongshan. And then, where will you return to, asked Yunyan. Taozong said, I will wait until you have a fixed residence. And Yunnan said, after your departure, it will be hard to meet again. And Dongshan said, it will not be hard to meet. is having a memorial service for Yunyan.

[27:12]

And the monk asked, what teaching did you receive while you were at Yunyan's place? And Tozan said, although I was there, I didn't receive any teaching. Since you didn't actually receive any teaching, why are you conducting this memorial? asked the monk. Well, and why should I turn my back on him, replied Tungshan. And so the monk says, if you begin, if you begin by meeting Nanchuan, why do you now conduct memorial service for union, asked the monk. And then Tungshan said, it's not, it is not my former that he did not make exhaustive explanations to me. Since you are conducting this memorial feast for the former master, do you agree with him or not?"

[28:23]

asked the monk. The master said, I agree with half, and I don't agree with half. Why don't you agree completely, asked the monk. The master said, if I agree completely, then I would be ungrateful to my former master. So this is a kind of wonderful exposition of Tozan's teaching and Suzuki Roshi's teaching as well. This is like exactly the heart of Suzuki Roshi's teaching. I would say he copied Dongshan, but he was very influenced by Dongshan, by Dongshan's way. So, John, would you clarify what you were reading from there? What exactly? What? What? What? What is the book? Yeah. This book is The Record of Gumshan by my old friend William Powell. It's a very good book.

[29:30]

Very nicely transmitted. So. Somehow I've secreted into this. Dongshan's teachers, you know, were very kind to him because they demonstrated the Dharma, but they didn't explain it. And so Dongshan had to really work to try to understand what his teachers were actually expressing. They didn't really teach him anything. And it's very difficult. It's very difficult for the teacher to not teach anything. For me, it's the hardest thing. Everyone expects something, you know.

[30:31]

But the role of Dongshan's teachers who were all in alignment with each other, even though their methods were all different, to send this guy from one teacher to another. Well, maybe you should go see. And each one knew what the other one was without being told, because they were all on the same level. And they could see right away, you know, who Dongsheng was, where he was. and they each gave him the same koan in a different way. Each one's a little different way, but it's the same koan. Until finally, Dozan was leaving his master, and he asked him, Yunyun, where will we meet?

[31:34]

Tozan is leaving. So just before Tozan, just before leaving, Dongshan asked, if after many years someone should ask if I am able to portray the master's likeness, how should I reply? You know, often the transmitted disciple would make a portrait of his teacher, often. So this has a little bit to do with that, like, how would I describe you? How would I portray you? In other words, one way or another. And after remaining quiet for a while, Yunyun said, just like this. Another koan. Doshan was lost in thought. Yunyun said, Having assumed the burden of this great matter of the dharma, transmission, you must be very cautious, very careful.

[32:45]

So Yunyun transmitted dharma to Dongshan. And now he's saying be careful and take good care of yourself and take good care of the dharma. So Dongshan remained dubious about what Union had said, or maybe he didn't quite get upon this poem. So later, as he was crossing a river, he saw his reflected image and experienced a great awakening to the meaning of the previous exchange. And he composed the following gatha, which is translated in various ways. You're probably familiar with the Scottish And here's the way it's usually translated. Earnestly avoid seeking without, lest it receive far from you. Today I am walking alone, yet everywhere I meet him.

[33:46]

He is now no other than myself, but I am not now him. It must be understood in this way in order to merge with suchness. Yeah. Earnestly avoid seeking without, lest it recede far from you. Today I am walking alone, yet everywhere I meet him. In other words, everywhere I meet myself is really what it's supposed to say. He is now no other than myself, but I am not now him. It must be understood in this way in order to merge with suchness. When Yun-Yin said, just this, he meant suchness. So in a way he's talking about Yun-Yin, but he's really talking about himself, and he's really talking about his place in the universe.

[34:51]

And when Bill Kong had his Dharma, Suzuki Roshi gave him this koan, and the way Suzuki Roshi, he made a very free translation of this statement, of this kata. So he said, and it's a little clumsy, but he said, do not try to see the world as an object. world. We can't help seeing the objective world, but we should not see the world objectively, as an object. In other words, don't look on things, don't look on the world as an object, outside of yourself as the subject. That you which is given as something to see, as an object, is not you, yourself.

[36:00]

I am going my own way now, and I meet myself wherever I go. Wherever I turn, I meet myself. If you understand that you, as an object, is not you yourself, then you have your own true way. that to express gratitude to his teacher, he was disagreeing with half of what he says. Yes, half agree and half not agree. So half agreeing and half not agreeing doesn't mean that he's disagreeing.

[37:06]

It means that you have to get beyond argument. It's not a matter of arguing with the teacher, although that may be... Actually, it's quite all right to argue with your teacher. I think what he means is, I have embodied my teacher, and then I'm on my own. When I understand my teacher's teaching, that's merging with the teacher. And then finding my own way is half not agreeing. So truly, I don't think it's a matter of arguing. It's a matter of how you separate yourself and find your own way.

[38:18]

If you don't find your own way and are simply always dependent on the teacher, then it's not complete. It's only complete when you embody the teaching of your teacher and then you find your own way to express it. I wanted to... talk about something that you were discussing earlier in your talk from Dogen. If I remember correctly, you said that he said, to follow the truth is a mistake, but to create the truth is the way. The last practice period we had as a theme turning the dharma wheel and allowing the dharma wheel to turn us. And that was actually given in Choson a response to the effect that I should look more towards allowing the dharma wheel to turn me.

[39:33]

So that sounds like a mistake from Dogen's saying, if I'm hearing it. depends on what he's talking about, because Dogen will take everything that you think is correct and turn it upside down. Even if it is correct, because he'll take what he turns upside down to mean the same thing as right side up. To take the ground out from under your for what you're depending on. So that was like a contextual teaching? Contextual teaching? Yeah, perhaps. I haven't really studied that.

[40:34]

But now that I'm interested in it in that way, I want to go back and study it. First I want to say, is there anything else besides contextual teaching? Oh, no. That's not what I want to do. I just was thinking, I noticed, you know, you quoted, I don't know if it was yesterday or the day before, but you quoted meeting with Suzuki Roshi and saying, oh, you know, I have my own problems and I'm not sure, you know, can I help people? Yes. Yes, if you didn't have problems, you wouldn't be useful. You wouldn't understand. Yeah. And that's one way that I... Like the Pope doesn't understand birth control. That's one way that I understand that koan, and I think that's one, I'm not sure if that's one of the things you meant by it, about if I could understand insentient beings, if I could hear it, you wouldn't be able to hear me.

[41:41]

So it's sort of like if I were coming from some place of perfection, We wouldn't be able to talk to each other, really. Is that why? Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. That would be too high. And so, although Suzuki Hiroshi, interestingly enough, knew a lot about Dharma. He never talked about it in that way. He always spoke about Dharma in the most common way. Very seldom ever used any technical terms or theoretical stuff. It was always a common way of talking about your experience, your life. But in the same way the Sixth Ancestor did. He talked about that dharmakaya is your nature, sambhogakaya is your wisdom, nirmanakaya is your actions.

[42:51]

There are volumes written about what that means, which you can't understand. Could you comment a little on, he is now none other but myself, but I am not him? Yeah. So, you know, if you look at it, the face of it, it looks like he's talking about union. Like, I'm one with union, yet union is union and I'm myself. Union and I are, when I look, you know, Tozan is crossing the stream and he sees his reflection. But what does he see when he sees his reflection? Is he just seeing his nose and his eyes and stuff?

[43:56]

So, yes, he's seeing his eyes and his nose and stuff, but he's also seeing his true body. which is the stream itself. He's not saying the mirror is just an object that is reflecting back to me. When I'm crossing the stream, the stream is verifying me, and I'm verifying the stream. So, I'm verifying Yun-Yun, Yun-Yun is verifying me, The stream is the stream. I am me. Union is union. I am me. It's like the white cloud is the parent of the... The blue mountain is the parent of the white cloud. All day long... And the white cloud is the child of the blue mountain. All day long they... What do they do? Validate each other.

[44:58]

No, no. All day long they... without being... It's very important. In other words, all day long they relate to each other without being attached to each other. I think it's just they don't tend to each other. They hang out together. No, to the front. I think there's such a thing as all day long they watch each other. No. No. Established. Could they have been reversed? Could he have also said, I am him, but he is not me? Is it just the same statement? Well, but it goes further than that. So that's the surface.

[45:59]

what Suzuki brought forth. In other words, when he's looking in the string and he's, instead of using the word he, he's using the word it, as an object. In other words, yes, his teacher and his relationship with the teacher, it could be going the other But he's really talking about, more deeply, the whole universe. The whole universe is me, but I can't say that I'm the whole universe. But the whole universe is what has produced this which I call me, and continues to do that. So it's like the grain of rice contains the whole universe.

[47:15]

But yet, it's just a grain of rice. So Tozan realizes that he is the whole universe, but at the same time, he is just himself. So this is both cosmic and personal. He realizes his cosmic nature, as well as his personal nature, and that they're not two and not one. So, John, when I first stepped into this center, I was struck by the beauty of these four pillars that you all brought from Gary Snyder's place. When I came to sit here, I felt a little awkward about having a relationship with the pillars. Unavoidable. But since your talk yesterday, it's been going well. I feel as if they speak simply, beautifully, and eloquently about being upright.

[48:24]

And this morning I was reminded that the Buddha sat near a Bodhi tree on the morning that he experienced intimacy with Morning Star. There's also a koan, a book of record, of the old Buddha communes with the pillars. I would like to turn to the worms and the zazen. The what? The worms and the zazen of Dean. I think I understand what you meant, what you're feeling with worms. Save them. Save them. Not so concerned, don't say that. In other words, act and speak from your heart, your feeling. But aren't there times when reflection is really called for rather than going with your heart at the moment? Yeah, reflection is fine. When you're in a hurry, you have to reflect

[49:26]

Sometimes you just have to act, you know. But I remember Suzuki Roshi talking about somebody going into Tassajara, they saw a cat devouring a mouse. And the woman said, well, what should I have done? Should I have saved the mouse. And she said, well, maybe. But, you know, this is like something happening outside of, you know, our control, so to speak. This is like nature taking its course. And maybe the mouse was a little Bodhisattva saying, don't worry. Don't worry about me.

[50:36]

I'm okay. I'm just... I'm taking care of this with the cat. The cat is devouring me. It's okay. It's got to be okay. Otherwise, how can anything live? Because everything is eating something. All the time. We think maybe we're eating meals three times a day. But actually, we're eating all the time, inadvertently. You know, we get a lot of our nutriments from the air, as well as our poisons. But in a natural, in an unpoisoned place, we get a lot of our nutrients just from the air. I'm eating bugs all the time without knowing it. But anyway, so we have our human feelings and then there's nature.

[51:47]

And they don't always have the same idea. So, this is, you know, If you want to intervene and you feel that's right, do it. If you feel that nature is taking its course... I remember, this may be my last statement, I think I've told you this not recently before, when Frank Cook, the professor who translated Dengaroku, back in the 70s we were friends and he lived in Berkeley and he was a professor and he We had a meeting in our living room on Dwight Way, which is, you know, kind of where we met, there was a circle of people and we were talking. And we were talking about life and death or something like that. And in walks the cat with a mouse. And steps right in the middle of the circle.

[52:53]

Were you there to run? No. I can imagine. I think it was all a wonderful start. Life is just full of these kids. Didn't you hear it?

[53:19]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ