Emptiness Means Interdependence

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Sesshin Day 1

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Several people mentioned dedicating a sasheen to victims of the recent massacre in Beirut. And I said, oh, that's okay, good idea. But nothing happened. I don't know why. I thought we would take care of that. But we can do it tomorrow. I have a service for those people. question comes up, what can you do, you know, in this kind of circumstance when there's some tragedy, you know, how do you, what, how do you take care of your internal

[01:22]

feelings about it and how do you express, how can you express something so that you can get your own mind straight about it and continue on. You know when we As we see the world getting smaller and smaller, so to speak, and people bumping up against each other, there's less and less room in this world. As it gets smaller, there's more people and less room. So there's more conflict.

[02:25]

the conflict is much more apparent and abrasive and harder and harder to deal with. And what was an occasional occurrence not too long ago is usual daily affair now. I remember when 20 years ago, or 30 years ago, 30 years ago, if someone was killed, in a tragic murder of some kind, some sensational kind of murder or kidnapping or something like that.

[03:34]

Everybody would be very concerned about it. Everybody would know about that particular thing and it was out of the ordinary. But now, that kind of thing is quite ordinary. Murders are every day. Kidnappings are every day. Something that would, some event that would touch the front page, be all over the front page of the newspaper 30 years ago, is on the back page of the newspaper today. Or in the middle someplace, or just commonplace. So, our world is The unusual things are now becoming more and more usual. And that kind of action is exhilarating and it's kind of frightening, very frightening. And we want to know what to do about it, how to deal with it internally and externally, so to speak.

[04:39]

And it's easy to just ignore it because it's so overwhelming. You know, you read the newspaper and it's just kind of like a movie or something. But you know that there's something real about it. Something really happened someplace. And if you ignore it, It will just pass by and you won't have to pay any attention. You can just go about your business. But something says you can't ignore it. Don't ignore it. So if you don't ignore it, then what do you do about it? When At least to recognize it.

[05:46]

I think that's important. If we have a memorial service, or dedicate Tsushima to some tragic event that's in our midst, that's a kind of recognition. which means that you're not ignoring something, even though directly you can't do anything about it. It's something that already happened. But our acknowledgment is important, and our awareness is important. And if we acknowledge and are aware, Even though we don't know what to do, we've done something, which helps us to know what to do in the future, or in the future present, present future.

[06:52]

As we know, the only way this world will survive is through harmony of the various parts. If we don't have harmony of the various parts, it won't work at all. It will never survive. And right now, the big parts, are vying for first place, vying for dominance, in a kind of balance, structure of balance. Whoever wins, whichever side wins the dominant position, then all the parts will have to take their position in harmony with that part. So, Whichever way the balance tips, every part is affected.

[08:17]

And so we have all these small wars, so to speak, or flare-ups in various parts of the world, and all these tragedies. the world trying to find its balance. So it's very difficult for, you know, if you're standing far away, you can look at the Middle East and you can say, well, I don't understand why all those people don't just kind of get along with each other. They all come from the same part of the world. They all have the same color skin, black hair, brown eyes. Why don't they get along together?

[09:23]

But their ideologies are very, very different, as we know. It's like someone on the other side of the world looking at this continent and saying, I don't know why South America and Mexico and Canada don't get along with the United States. But Mexico, which is right next to the United States, it's like the head and the tail meeting. And we consider Mexico the tail. A Mexican friend of mine said, you know, when the United States lifts its little finger in some way, down in Mexico, everything has an earthquake. It's like an earthquake in Mexico. So, since all the parts of this world are interrelated and interdependent, when something happens in one part, its effect is felt on the other side, someplace.

[10:46]

So as the world gets smaller, we begin to realize more and more our interrelatedness, the interrelatedness of all the parts of the world. And we wish that the world was in harmony, all these parts were in harmony. And then we look at ourselves and we say, well, what are we doing? What can I do to bring the world into harmony? I'm just this little 5 foot 7 or 8 or 10 pile of bones with arms and legs and a brain. I'm on millions and millions of other ones like me. What can I do to bring all these parts into harmony? so that the world will survive and fulfill itself in the correct way, the way we feel is correct.

[12:00]

So, for a Buddhist, our practice has to exemplify that reality. Actually, that's what our practice is about, exemplifying that reality. Why we sit sashi is to come face-to-face with that reality. If you look at the Middle East, problems in the Middle East, the people see themselves, various countries see themselves independently, but they don't

[13:26]

know how to look at themselves interdependently. So they don't feel like when they have a war they're fighting themselves. They feel like they're fighting somebody else. Those people over there. And so they can never get out of their round of independent captivity. They're bound by their idea of themselves. And until they can expand their consciousness of who they really are, their interdependency, their emptiness, It just goes on and on and on, and everyone is affected. So we have great tragedies.

[14:32]

This interdependence that we have is the most important thing that we have to learn in Buddhist practice. And we also call it emptiness. In Buddhist practice, we talk about emptiness, and in the Heart Sutra, which we chant every day, we talk about emptiness. Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. Emptiness is form, and form is emptiness, and that very form is emptiness, and that very emptiness is form. One way to look at that is emptiness. You can say interdependence. Everything is interdependent, which means empty. Nothing stands by itself. Nothing stands alone.

[15:40]

There is no thing that has its own... Even though each thing is independent, Nothing, no thing stands by itself completely. The whole, everything in the universe is interdependent and interlocking. And there is no such thing as myself other than this interdependency. This is why we study Buddhism. why we sit satsang, why we sit satsang is to realize this truth. And just by doing something small, you know,

[16:49]

By educating ourselves and by realizing ourselves in its true sense, maybe we help the world. But this is the most fundamental way to help ourselves and to help others. Unless we realize, unless everyone realizes this, then there'd be no end to this kind of destruction and conflict. I want to read something. admonition or something for you to think about.

[18:07]

This is a talk by Suzuki Roshi in 1970 about zazen, how to sit zazen, how to approach our sitting in zazen. And he talks about sitting, but he also talks about our attitude towards sitting. And it's very much, very pertinent to this idea. So first he says, you should sit zazen with your whole body. your spine, mouth, toes, mudra. Check on your posture during zazen. Each part of your body should practice zazen independently or separately.

[19:12]

Your toes should practice zazen independently. Your mudra should practice zazen independently. Your spine and your mouth should practice zazen independently. You should feel each part of your body doing zazen separately. Each part of your body should participate completely in zazen. Check to see that each part of your body is doing zazen. This is also known as shikantaza. To think, I am doing zazen, or my body is doing zazen, is wrong understanding. It is a self-centered idea. You know, this is very much connected with how the world runs. We set our independent qualities aside and fix them in some way.

[20:21]

And we call that an I, a mind and an I. And then we pit this I and mind against all these other I and minds, failing to see that these are just two sides of one being, or many sides of one being. So our independence, you know, the independent parts of our body are just like the independent people in this world. Everything practicing independently, thinking that it's I. But there is no I, here, just these parts.

[21:27]

The mudra is especially important. You shouldn't feel as if you're resting your mudra on your heel, on the heel of your foot for your own convenience. Your mudra should be placed in its own position. Don't move your legs for your own convenience. Your legs are practicing their own zazen independently and are completely involved in their own pain. This is the most important point in zazen. They are doing zazen through pain. You should allow them to practice their own zazen. If you think you are practicing zazen, you are involved in some selfish, egotistical idea. If you think that you have some difficulty in some part of your body, then the rest of the body should help the part that is in difficulty.

[22:38]

You are not having difficulty with some part of your body, but the part of the body is having difficulty. For example, your mudra is having difficulty. Your whole body, in that case, your whole body should help your mudra do zazen. The entire universe is doing zazen in the same way that your body is doing zazen. When all parts of your body are practicing zazen, then that is how the whole universe practices zazen. Each mountain and each river is going and flowing independently. All parts of the universe are participating in their practice. The mountain, for example, does not have any idea of practicing with the river. The mountain practices independently. The river practices independently. Thus, the whole universe practices independently. When you see something, you think that you are watching something else outside of yourself.

[23:44]

You are watching your mudra or your toe. That is why zazen practice symbolizes the whole universe. We should practice zazen with this idea of practice. You should not say, I practice zazen with my body. It is not so. Dogenzenji says, water does not flow, but the bridge flows. When you say that your mind is practicing zazen, you ignore your body, the practice of your body. Sometimes when you think that you are doing Zazen with an imperturbable mind, you ignore the body. But it is also necessary to have the opposite understanding at the same time. Your body is practicing Zazen in imperturbability even though your mind is moving. Your legs are practicing Zazen with pain. Water is practicing zazen with movement, yet the water is still while flowing, because flowing is its stillness, or its nature.

[25:01]

The bridge is doing zazen without moving. Let the water flow, as that is the water's practice. Let the bridge stay and sit there, because that is the actual practice of the bridge. The bridge is practicing zazen. Painful legs are practicing zazen. Imperturbable zazen is practicing zazen. That is our practice. There may seem to be some contradiction here, some contradictions, but they're not contradictions. When each thing practices independently, there is no obstruction.

[26:08]

When each thing takes its own place, knows its own place, and practices within its own difficulty, There's a problem, always a problem. But the problem belongs to that place. If you say, I have pain in my legs, you're referring to I, or you're referring to some fixed entity, which we call myself. But really, pain in the legs is legs having pain. It's nothing that you have to worry about. So if you're really paying attention to everything, even though there's some pain in the legs,

[27:24]

you can put your attention on this mudra. You can put some attention on this back sitting up straight. You can put attention on this breathing which goes on and on and on. That way you have some imperturbability. You're not, even though something is happening, there's no problem. You don't get thrown by it. There's no one to be thrown by it. So painful legs become harmonized with straight back. with correct mudra, with breathing.

[28:29]

Sleepiness gets harmonized with painful legs, straight back, breathing, mudra. Everything is included and has its place. There's nothing wrong And even though we want this world, ideally, to be perfect, without conflict, without pain, without massacres, the world will never live up to our ideal. Even though we want to be comfortable when we're sitting zazen all day, there's no way that we can do it without giving up our ego, our sense of self.

[29:41]

No way. We can be comfortable without giving up our sense of self, self-centeredness. then we can accept what happens. And also, we can help harmonize our surroundings. So we have, in one sense, we accept everything that happens. We accept the massacre in Beirut. There's no way you can't accept it. And on the other hand, our whole life is devoted to harmonizing with our surroundings. So our effort is to harmonize with our surroundings, each independent thing.

[30:43]

And we sit in this crowded room together all day, harmonizing body and mind, independently and with each other. Your problems are your problems, and my problems are my problems. Each one of us has our own problems independently. But yet, each one of us is completely in harmony with the universe. We can say, if everybody sat zazen like this, maybe we wouldn't have such big problems. Maybe so, but we have to sit zazen anyway, even if other people don't.

[31:52]

we must have that kind of faith. We can talk about harmony, you know, until our lips fall off, but unless we know how to practice it in its true sense, in its non-dualistic sense, We always will have this kind of conflict. I'm afraid we'll always have it anyway. But, you know, we don't sit zazen to cure the world. We sit, we practice Buddhism for the sake of Buddhism because we know that it's the correct way to live. And we hope that it helps we hope and we feel that our practice has far-reaching influence.

[33:12]

So, when we find out what zazen really is, we'll have some confidence in that. But we really need to practice hard in order to find out what zazen really is. Not just sitting on the cushion. It comes from, the extension of our life comes from sitting on the cushion. But we also need to extend that into the world. Do you have a question?

[34:32]

It seems to me that pain is an indication that something needs to be done in many cases and that a change should be brought about if possible. And why isn't that true for your legs? Well, usually we're trying to get comfortable, and so we are always shifting around to get comfortable, but in a kind of temporary way, because comfort is just temporary, you know. However we set ourself up, our comfort is just temporary. But in Zazen, we don't try to get ourselves comfortable temporarily. If we did, you know, we'd put all these cushions under our legs and shift around and try to find ways of being comfortable. So in Zazen, we turn it around and we have to discover how to find the comfort internally.

[35:56]

So in order to find the comfort internally, we have to know what we are. So the point is that through painful legs, through sitting all day, you discover a part of yourself that you don't usually encounter. I don't mean just a part of yourself, but what your true self really is. Because in trying to make ourself comfortable externally, we keep developing a fantasy of ourself, and we keep perpetuating this fantasy of ourself. But through Sazen, we enter a different door.

[37:05]

And it's the door of no-self. And it's not just an idea. It's how to get at the reality. So, pain is a kind of reality. It's a very prominent part of our life. So instead of avoiding it, we include it. And we discover how to include it without discriminating. Oh, this is good and this is bad. usual painful situations are some indication that there's something maybe wrong. But here we know we're sitting on our legs and our legs can accept the pain without being hurt by it.

[38:13]

So it's learning what pain is, what to, how to, not in some sense how to deal with it, but how to find our equilibrium between pleasure and pain. Because when you can sit comfortably, then you also have pleasure. So it's like the edge of a knife or the edge of a blade. And on one side is pain and the other side is pleasure. And when pain and the pleasure are evenly balanced, then there's a transcending of pain and pleasure.

[39:19]

So if you're just stuck in your pain, then you're still clinging to something. Still clinging. So, as the meal sutra says, may we all be free from self-clinging. In the first part of the Meal Sutra, it says, may we all be free from self-claiming. That's the purpose of our practice. Yes? How is life in the world, including the massacre that just happened, any different really from your description? It's part of it. It's something that we don't like.

[40:25]

But unfortunately, we have to accept it. If you accept that as a painful experience, without ignoring it, you can't ignore it. And at the same time, you can't be attached to it. So this is, in that way, you know, it's the same. This painful experience, if you don't ignore it, then you feel the pain of it. But if you don't know how to accept it in a correct way, then you become attached to it. And you can't continue. So one way of not dealing with it is to avoid it.

[41:30]

But if you avoid it, if you don't avoid it and have to deal with it, you should be able to feel the pain. But you should also be able to let go, even though All those people are no longer with us. They're with us in some way. And we have to continue. But when that particular event passes by, as so many particular events have already, something else will come up. We'll feel that pain for a while. then we'll feel something else, which will make us forget that, because it won't be prominent.

[42:31]

And then some other thing will come along, some other wave of pain. Something will come along which will make us feel pain in the same way. And then we can accept that. Without ignoring that, we accept it, and just let it be there. We just have to let that be there. But if we get attached to it, we won't be able to let it go. So, if we don't let it go, then all these tragedies will pile up, one on top of the other, and we'll go crazy. Or, we'll have so much pain that we can't live. Say, I have so much pain that I can't live, because we're hanging on to that pain. You know, in Zazen, it's the same way. When you get stuck with your pain, Say, how did I ever get into this? I can't stand it. I can't live with it a minute more. But you do, you know.

[43:33]

You have to find out how to live with it. You have to find out how to let it be there. And then when you can let it be there, you're not ignoring it. You know exactly what it is. Exactly what it is. And it's part of your living, part of your life. I just want to clarify for myself acceptance versus doing something about it. Acceptance versus doing something about it, or acceptance as doing something about it. I don't speak about it. I often feel tension in many parts of my body. I wonder, is the right thing to do about this? It seems like I do several things about it. One is to sort of look at it. Another thing is to be it.

[44:35]

And another thing is to do something about it by breathing in it or trying to relax it or something like this. And then I'm wondering is that the right attitude to try to change it. Well, you know, when you say tension, that's what you said. You said, I feel tension. That's pain. Okay, pain. Pain and tension are connected, but they're really two different things. So, let's talk about tension. Tenseness. There is always tension, because otherwise you'd fall into a puddle. There was no tension. So tension is what keeps us upright and in harmony. But tenseness is something extra caused by fear or caused by pain or something in our mind.

[45:42]

You know, when we start to get a lot of pain, then we get great tense because we don't know what to do with it. So you consciously have to let go of the tenseness. consciously had to just let go of the tenseness and find your posture, find your balance, even though your legs may be painful. If you hang on to that, then you're just waiting for something to end. So Zazen is not waiting for the end. Zazen is living in the moment. If you're waiting for the end, then you say, oh, I wish he'd stop talking. But you have to remember, when you think that thought, the problem is within yourself. The problem is not me talking. The problem is within yourself. Just let it be. How do you let it be? You just put your attention on your posture.

[46:48]

That's how all the parts of your body come to help that part. You re-establish a foundation for that part of the body. So everything is working together. All the parts of your body are working independently, yet they're all working together. So when your shoulders get tense, then you say, oh, relax. It only takes a straight spine to sit up straight. I don't have to use all that tension in my body. My elbows are free and everything. All the parts are independent. Because there's pain in these legs, doesn't mean that the shoulders have to react. So then you come to some calmness, and you can accept what's happening. Even though it's moment by moment, one breath, maybe I won't make it to the next breath. But if you really are sincere and concentrated, you'll make it to the next breath.

[47:56]

And then you become more and more concentrated and harmonized. And then at some point, you feel some freedom. Even though this is happening, it's OK. I feel pretty good, actually, because I'm not caught by that. I'm not enslaved by it. I'm quite free of it, even though it's there. Are you saying that in order to best act, to change a situation, you have to be fully accepting of it? For example, if I were doing Zazen in the middle of the massacre, I would have to accept it in order to get up and try to stop it?

[48:59]

Well... If I could? Yeah, you'd have to accept what's happening. When you know what's happening, when your mind is very clear, then you're much more liable to do the correct thing than if your mind is frantic or trying to escape or something. It's like if you fall out of a tree. If your mind is not calm, then all you can think about is hitting the ground or maybe stop thinking. But if your mind is clear and you're aware of the situation, aware of your body, And where, then, when you pass by a limb, you can grab it. So, would you say that if the pain in my leg was a real indication that something was wrong, physically, medically wrong, that I would then know to stop?

[50:06]

So we don't want anybody to hurt themselves. But, you know, if one of the problems, even though you have a lot of pain in your legs, you won't have a problem unless you start thinking in terms of problems of that kind. And the biggest problem is when you're fighting what's happening. You know, then it causes some kind of wrenching. So it's quite, it's really important to just let go, to become, to not ignore the pain and not become, at the same time, not be attached to it. It seems like you know, the human world is very restless.

[51:20]

And when I think of the Middle East, you know, the pictures that we see in the paper are everyone's arms are raised and sometimes a rifle and sometimes signs and just a lot of, you know, deep-felt anger and noise. And it's very No, there is no stillness. Yeah, no stillness. And it's very hard for any one person to find that through sitting past the pain in their legs. I mean, worldwide. Oh, yes. Taking everyone in. So this is a pretty rare kind of thing and probably the most valuable. So easy to squirm and be restless and overlook it. Always move like the world moves. We're in a new position.

[52:24]

Maybe if I move my arms this way, things will be different. Military. Always squirming the world. The value I feel in response to something like this massacre is to I'm as restless as the rest of the world, but to remember that I can be less so and stop squirming so much. Yeah. Help the world stop squirming by stopping squirming yourself. Okay, thank you.

[53:06]

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