So since we've been speaking so much about... Can you open that window too? Yes. Thanks. An inner discussion... And hopefully an inner discussion that goes on in you, both noticed and unnoticed, And this morning we've been, in fact, trying to join our own inner discussion with the discussion that's been going on for 2500 years. within the lineage teachings of Buddhism?

[01:11]

So what I would like to ask, of course, does this bring up anything in your own sense of an inner discussion? So I've begun waiting. Yes, thank you very much. I remember a discussion that we both, Roshi and I, had together. This was in my first years in Crestone.

[02:12]

And for me the topic was justice. And you said it's not about justice, it's about truth. And this phrase accompanied me since then. And then I kind of made it in chunks, palatable chunks, or I decoded it for myself. I looked at society under the aspects of justice and truth. And it really helps me until now to focus to this very moment maybe not what's true, but actually what is true in this very moment.

[03:32]

And still there's this big question, what is justice? And what is my personal truth, but my changing personal truth? From moment to moment. Okay. Okay. You just said a lot. You don't need to apologize. It's good that you said a lot. But if I start responding to the several folds of what you unfolded, it'll be three in the afternoon and we'll have missed lunch. So let me see if I can stay with what you said and come back to it. Okay, so someone else. Yes, Tom? No, no, not Tom.

[04:56]

Who else is there? He said today, we want to understand our own inner. And to discover what's important to us. As the father of three boys who are at the present searching, So I asked myself, how did I find for myself something that is

[06:04]

important to myself and how I found it and how can I be for my son searching and for some easier than the other. I have to ask you a last sentence if I may. All had one topic. All had one topic, Jim. It's all in every speech. Find your passion. Find your passion. Find your passion. This is not so easy. This is the same topic and it's true enough for teenagers. It's true enough that this is for teenagers.

[07:25]

Finding your own passion as it is. That's obviously the best example is your supply. Without even saying anything. Your own element. Request of yourself. The best thing for your kids. The best thing for your kids. The best thing for your kids. I remember somebody who, uh, pretty well California you know. Uh, it would be, uh, by 30.

[08:43]

For a friend's company and they retire the company and they have enough friends in the company. And what they do is they hire at 30 and have enough money to help the world. Anyway, he succeeded. He retired. He was able to do good projects. I don't serve on a lot of boards and so forth. I drive on a lot of Porsche. I tried to make this an example for kids.

[09:44]

But what the kids got was, but was funny. But what they've learned from it is that you have to be very careful. And break helping people. And then, for the first time, think about whether you... For the first time... Oh, he never got the message across. For the first time, so it's... Forget us. His... His concerns about his... His regards to his friends. That's it. That's it. Yes? Yeah. Yeah. One aspect of this question, even before the seminar is over, is the practice of the disabled. So, one aspect of practice, then, when it's as a seminar practice, well, it's poor, so it's a bit of a metagene. Although poor metagene starts since, I can't really sort of since. I also think that it's a very serious, that it's a very serious experience when I look at this question.

[10:47]

And I feel that's a very nice, um, quickly, um, send it quickly to you. Quickly. And then the question came up, what is this? [...] What is the expression? What is the expression? So then the next question, I think that if there's thoughts, if this question, where do they come from? My thoughts, are they cultural thoughts? Where do they come from? You know, this is a process that goes really fast.

[11:51]

This question, what is my genetic quest, goes very fast. Look, I can also center myself. so this uh prop all of it what my innermost request did my animal quest centering well quickly i have to kind of incubate it it's out of you all it's a good coin uh The words I mute to ask myself, to explore myself. Are they in her outer? Are they inherent? Obviously they are. Your language. Your language. That we could say is an outer creation of many different things.

[12:55]

So are they controlling themselves? What do you think about them? Are they really interesting? Are they funny? Control how you find them. Are they really interesting? [...] Okay, that's a lot of questions, but a lot of them are based on whether or not you sit on the chair. I think that's a great question. Often asked by the practice and the English professor, I feel like they are often English speakers. Well, in my opinion, then they are apparently used like that. and through practice hearing it in English these phrases work in English within myself and in we would say occupy my in

[14:01]

Yeah, many people said German is so leased by the Minnesotist. Minnesotist. That's why I'm here to supply you dick. That's why I said that. That's why I want to supply you with English. Yes. Yes, I can do that. So for me, um, so for me, something more additional happened. Additional, Münchhausen, they can, they can, they can, they can. This is not new for you.

[15:16]

Münchhausen, you don't know, right? Yeah, I do. You do know it. In der Sprache. [...] My name has been coined. So with this, the beliefs out of which I'm asking... Yeah. Is it... Is it... what's your baby passes of sets the cause for them so I know if resistant in a make and Frank's or something who I said shut your guitar good up and some time

[16:26]

Baron Rutschhausen and Frank Zappa. Baron Rutschhausen and Frank Zappa. And then... Zappa thinks, he says, be quiet and play the guitar. Or Sniggan, be quiet and sit down. Sniggan. Reincarnation actually. Reggae. Sniggan. Reincarnation actually. [...] Well, but there is a big well, but you're sitting in the second, not the last row. The last one, but in the second row, the last one. Valerian? Valerian, yeah. Do peeps do that? Very few. What I might be. So, on the way here, this topic happened to me as well. Yes, and as you can see, a few cards actually said the same thing. They said the same thing. Exactly the same use case.

[17:27]

Then because he is a good teacher and then because he is a teacher of you, you didn't say exactly what you said. You said, you [...] said, Although we have to eat it ourselves, we have to think about it ourselves. Yes. So I just saw that you have such a temper. I think you have it too. But in fact, I don't know. And that's why I don't like it. And that's why I don't like it. Well, that's much too high to go back to questions. That's a very personal question. Actually, let me just say this. Actually, don't let me read a sutra at all. Don't let me read a sutra at all.

[18:38]

Don't let me read a sutra at all. [...] And that's what I'm talking about. But the concept of Buddha nature, the concept of original nature, the concept of original me, the concept are problematic. They are problematic. because they all in plus struck truth all in situ struck over. As soon as you have that, you have some concept physically of God. And this means that most people don't like it. And this is the most difficult concept that you can get rid of physically by Western culture.

[19:41]

Even the way Euclid is used for geometry. But somehow his elements of 300 BC of geometry are thought to be truths outside of human culture. Which Einstein would say, I think, there's no such thing as a triangle because it's always curved. So there's no sum of the angles. Euclid geometry are imagined figures, but they don't actually exist in the world. But they are very helpful in building bridges that don't fall down.

[21:14]

So, maybe Buddha nature is helpful in bridging our way into Buddhist culture. Someone else? I'll come back. Someone else? Yes. Hi. I don't... I think I just discovered what brought me to what is my innermost request. And that was the question about truth. And I asked this question 1996 during practice period. So then I asked this seemingly kind of good question to Roshi and I said, what is the truth and how do I know that this is the truth?

[22:31]

And he answered, well, who knows, wer weiß. And instantaneously I was dumbfounded and inside I fell over dead. Really? You looked pretty good when I saw you. It was terrible. Yeah, I did survive it somehow. Yeah, I can tell. For weeks I was in chagrin because I thought I was really kind of angry. I get such an answer. So I just laughed. I think he wanted to say something, but he then noticed it's over, and I laughed too.

[23:50]

I was really angry, and I did engage in this answer. And this answer then turned to my advantage. With all my questions, with my deeper questions, I always answer to myself, who knows? And it really helped me and assisted in to develop and find my innermost request. Good. Well, you're welcome. Thanks for this answer. And anyone says to me, not anyone, but, Some years ago you said to me such and such.

[25:01]

Or I said to you such and such. And then you said, and then I think, am I going to pass the test? I feel like an old test exam is being brought up from years ago, and did I get an A or a B? And I'm glad I gave you a wrong answer, which turned out to be a right answer. Okay, someone else. Yes. Concerning words, What I just noticed is that they feel different regarding to who says them.

[26:10]

So the seemingly same word may seem flat, but it may have depth if the right person says it. i long time even since we practiced this term um uh in the most request i i couldn't it didn't tell me something and so i um I felt along, where it's warmer, where it's deeper, where it's softer, like this. This was my antenna, so to say. So the innermost request is just something to feel, but I couldn't put it into words, except now. You've heard it. I've heard everything.

[27:41]

I'm glad I said it, or have said it now, finally, after all these years, in a way that got to you. It's true. But sometimes we have to say things to ourselves in ways that somehow It's like popular songs. They're a bunch of drivel until you fall in love. And then, oh, that simple song all the time. But actually it's never lost. What love or the innermost request? Not love, but what's sad. Yeah, right. Okay. Someone else. Yes. Hey, it's nice to see you. It came from Berlin.

[28:41]

Thanks. For 25 years, I've been interested in the question, what is reality? Since 25 years, I'm interested in the questions, what is reality? Who are we and where are we? These questions are still interesting to me, but in recent times, something has become more important to me. The question how do we and how do I deal with suffering? I am present in a phase of personal suffering because my wife wants to separate.

[29:57]

And I see that I can go into this inner dialogue and go there where the inner suffering is being reproduced. No, I think I can go into this dialogue which creates suffering and also represents suffering. And I can also go out of there. Thanks to all these years of Zen. And I notice when I'm here together with all the Dharma friends, I feel fine. And then it somehow doesn't feel right to kind of... Not right.

[31:20]

Doesn't feel right, not right, to kind of go outside of this non-suffering. Doesn't feel right sometimes to go out of the suffering. It's because it looks like if I exit the suffering I'm betraying the reality of my life. So I'm watching this going back and forth. And then I ask myself, to what degree is it beneficial to go how deep into this? And And how much is it allowed or beneficial to pull yourself out of it?

[32:44]

Who's doing the allowing? That's another dialogue. which is coined through the question what's right, what's decent, and what keeps the suffering the smallest for everyone involved. On my way here, I've already begun to enter the inner dialogue with you and all of us here. Sitting in a streetcar, I really felt the contrast by being in Buddha nature and being in streetcar.

[34:05]

In some way, this contrast of being in Buddha, nature, or being in suffering seems to be like a reflection of each other. So I can go into the form and I can suffer the form? Or I withdraw from it? Well, I mean, it's presumptuous for me to speak in any way that assumes I can relieve your suffering. But in Buddhism, overall, all the teachings of Buddhism fall into the context of a practice through which one can realize enlightenment.

[35:53]

and a related but not identical concept of freeing oneself from suffering. But freeing oneself from suffering doesn't mean to get rid of suffering. It's more in the context of what you've said. You don't have to live in the midst of the suffering all the time. But the... Concept in much of Western medicine and psychology is to heal. And what's commonly meant by healing for many people,

[36:57]

It's like a wound heals and ideally doesn't even leave a scar. I suddenly imagined if you had a Japanese car repairman When you dented your fender, he wouldn't paint it and make it look like it's never been dented. He'd show you all the dents and outline them and so forth like that, but he'd make it work. And that really comes, I mean I'm exaggerating, but comes out of a different world view. I have a friend in Colorado Springs named Roberto Agnolini.

[38:11]

He's put together, he's an Italian trained in Germany in architecture and design. And in Colorado Springs, of all places. He's put together a team of people, Europeans, who are immigrants, who can fix anything, build couches, repair porcelain, etc., You do. Your hands are even more than mine. I don't even know I'm doing this, but I look at you and you're... It's such a nice dance.

[39:11]

So he's repaired a number of things for me. Had repaired. Including a porcelain Avalokiteshvara I gave you once. And how did it break? But it's real intricate filigree of tiny porcelain stuff, you know. And he repaired it and you cannot tell, it was in many pieces, and you cannot tell it was broken. Isn't that a druggy cat? Its history is gone. The cat is dead. Which is okay for this figure, it's nice to be entering.

[40:49]

But I have a number of tea bowls that have been broken for various reasons. And I don't like it that the repairs disappear. And in Japan they have a way of mixing gold leaf in with the glue and then you see these lines. It's quite beautiful. And it's quite beautiful. Beautiful enough that there are western potters who make a beautiful bowl, break it and glue it together with gold. In America. It's a fusion culture. There's always fusion restaurants.

[42:10]

I never know quite what I'm eating. Do they call it fusion? We only have pure restaurants. Yeah. In any case the emphasis in Buddhism is not to heal in a sense that the wound is now invisible. But rather to see, no matter what I say, it's not quite right, but I'll do my best. But rather to put it aside and not necessarily live in it all the time. And some of us have lived long enough to have an old warehouse full of sufferings that have been pushed aside.

[43:24]

And you say, well, that's fucked up on this high shelf. But sometimes in the middle of the night one of those will fall down and, oh, where's the justice? There's no justice in this world. I need that little bench to get up there. But But that's not quite the right concept, just to put aside. It's more that you allow yourself to be defined not through your past, but through your immediate circumstances.

[44:27]

So coming here, you're allowing yourself to be defined by your circumstance. But when you want to try to understand what's happened between you and your wife, And what's real for her as well as what's real for you. It's important to allow yourself to be in the midst of that. In that sense, suffer means to experience. Be, experience that. But to carry that situation around with you everywhere is kind of crazy. And I guess there's a word for it, trauma.

[45:43]

If your parents have beat you as a child or something, you may carry that around all your life. You can't put it aside. So I think it's interesting in psychology that treatment, the relationship to trauma is different than the relationship to ordinary mental illness and so forth. Okay. Anyone else? Yes. So after speaking this morning, I'm still interested in truth, and I don't think there's an objective truth.

[47:08]

I think it's more like there are lots of subjective truths. Most things arise in relationship to other things. Is there something that exists independently that one could call objective truth? Well, first of all, I wouldn't use the contrast between objective and subjective. at least in English, because subjective means usually I or personal.

[48:21]

But if you mean subjected to interdependence or something like that, then there's no objective truth in it. then there is no objective truth in Buddhism. That's the view of Buddhism, which I so far agree with. I say so far, because if I say it is the case, then I'm assuming there's an objective truth. But I think, and I'll just mention now, without going into it, it's important to see that things are both interdependent.

[49:29]

And to translate, to understand the Buddhist concept of change. To mean simply in English that everything is interdependent. Is not true to our subjective experience. Because things are simultaneously interdependent. And interindependent. And interindependent is to know things as they exist through themselves. As a scientist and particularly as a botanist, this is everyday stuff for you.

[50:40]

Yes. Then I'm asking what are the Four Noble Truths in the Eightfold Path if there is no objective or definitive truth? Troublemaker. Well, they're called truths. In translation. But we could, let's say, at least for now, let's call them important points to notice.

[51:40]

Yes. I would like to add something. On the one hand, I see that this is perhaps a central question, the most requested. I see that, let's say, in my other spiritual tradition, I think on the radio it is called sad, Seekers of the truth, or I must need this inquiry. Okay, wait, the innermost requests. You have to be careful, as he is, that I don't translate.

[52:41]

Different traditions have different innermost requests. That's what we call innermost request here. It's a very central question. This is very centrally also asked in other traditions I'm going to lean out of the window now by claiming something As long as there's somebody who can pose a question who wants it and wants it answered, as long as that's happening, there won't be an answer. What the answer is is not questionable. It's just there. Well, sometimes it's just there when you're 20 and it's a different there just when you're 30.

[53:52]

I think nothing is missing in this state. In this state there is no such question. Okay. All right. I'll accept that. Das akzeptiere ich. Für eine Weile. Für eine Weile. Yes? Ein Aspekt für mich, wenn es so um Dinge geht, empfinde ich sie als mir in Richtung wahr oder ist es stimmig oder ist es sehr fremdbestimmt? So when it is about such topics, then I feel is it more towards true or is it more determined by the outer? And then another sense, do I feel nourished by it?

[54:55]

This is a process. When it goes towards nourishment, not the feeling. that I am in a lively process of noticing. And then it feels like this is kind of round for me. And then I can join in what Neil said. If somebody else says exactly the same thing, it just feels wrong. Like Kvatch. I don't have the feeling that this is nourishing. Okay, I understand. Well, let me go back to what Gerald said.

[55:57]

Is that he said that he asked about justice and I said something like, look at truth. But, you know, and I was at that time, that was, you know, what, 30 years ago? What? 25. Yeah, it's great. It stays with us. At that time I was exploring and I was rather stuck in the concept of justice. Because in small things you can have a feeling of justice, but in big things there is no justice. But to play with words, maybe we can have just, if not justice.

[57:05]

If we play with words here, then we can also just have instead of justice. Right. Right. Just. I accept whatever you say. And that's what I'm trying to say. which is that at some point it dawned on me that at the basis of my you know my the version of Dynamo and the bit the basis of my the dynamic of my structures through which I viewed the world

[58:35]

I thought the bottom line was justice. And I was stuck there. And it took me actually quite a while before I felt that it was actually compassion and not justice that is at the basis of one's functioning structures. Compassion meaning, let's take it to mean, to feel with. And to feel with is not about right or wrong, but about acceptance.

[59:44]

Now, if the way you're put together as an individual person and as a person as part of a society If the innermost request, the requesting arises first of all from acceptance, then the kind of questions you ask is different than if it rests in wanting justice. Then the kind of questions you ask is different than if it rests in wanting justice.

[60:51]

As you probably know, having the perspective of Europe, America is weirdly nationalistic. And while I was speaking, this cartoon I saw many years ago came up in my mind. And one guy says, my country, right or wrong? And the other guy says, what do you mean wrong? So that's justice. who would respond indirectly to the second part of what you said this morning, Biral.

[62:16]

Let me speak a moment about Zazen. Because if we're going to talk about inner practice, the context of inner practice is... arises through the bodily and the vitality and bodily and mentality that arises through zazen. Can you say it again? Yeah, the the innermost request as understood in Buddhism arises in the context which gives relevance to the quest

[63:23]

kommt in einen Kontext zustande, die diesem Anliegen Relevanz verleiht. The body, mind and vitality that appears through the practice of regular zazen. Durch diese Körper, Geist und Vitalität, wie sie durch zazen entstehen. Now it's rather difficult to understand, I think, why a posture can make a difference. Particularly a posture in which you do nothing. What a waste of time. I mean, our culture is now about production and efficiency and, you know, here we are wasting our time.

[64:36]

And the most basic instruction for Zazen is non-corrected or uncorrected mind. Okay, and we can oversimplify and understand uncorrected or non-corrected as meaning don't do anything. Not true. You're not doing anything. You're taking a particular posture and you're doing it on a regular basis. I mean, maybe I should write a book called Buddhism, the Do-Nothing Posture. Okay, so how are we going to convince people that the do-nothing posture is worth doing?

[65:54]

And why does a temporal, taking time, a time posture make any difference? And I noticed all of you are adjusting your posture now. This is very good. But why can't a posture make a difference? Well, but at the same time, what stares us in the face all the time? Is that we mostly sleep in a horizontal posture. We mostly are conscious in a vertical posture. And if you look at Western architecture,

[67:03]

Wenn ihr euch westliche Architektur anschaut, geht es eben groß und ganz darum, Räume zu schaffen für aufrechte Haltung und für horizontale Haltung. Die meisten Möbel werden für vertikale Haltung oder horizontale Haltung entworfen. Weshalb? Because we have to lie down sometimes because we're just bloody lazy. Yeah, or you're getting old and you need a nap. In Japan they don't build rooms for, different rooms for horizontal and vertical postures. In Japan, they definitely, traditionally anyway, built rooms so that they could be for both vertical posture and horizontal posture.

[68:12]

Which means they can't have furniture like we have. Because you have to be able to move the art. You'd have to have a team of people. Would you move all the beds out and the, you know, stuff? Denn wir bräuchten ein ganzes Team von Leuten, die helfen, die Betten rauszuschleppen und so weiter. Particularly if you have a California mattress, you know, six foot, seven foot in all directions. Und besonders wenn man eine kalifornische Größe von Matratze hat, die in alle Richtungen sechs mal sieben Fuß ist. This is actually in America. We have single beds, double beds, a little bit bigger than double, and then big beds, and then California style.

[69:19]

You don't have to translate. Okay. So what happens in the horizontal posture that's different from the vertical posture? And can we imagine the obvious that Zazen is about combining the vertical posture and the horizontal posture? And is it also possible to imagine that maybe the Japanese... It's a small country, you don't have much room for it. Actually want you to sleep in the same room that you have your conscious life into.

[70:20]

This comes out of a world view that's not about architecture, it's about should you sleep in the same rooms you also are consciously active? So let's explore, I mean why not, if we're going to talk about inner practice, maybe we should talk about zazen. No, but you've had Zazen instructions so many times. You don't have to come back this afternoon, but if you do, we'll try to talk about that.

[71:25]

We'll try to do Zazen instructions with a twist. No, no, not a twist. I mean, yeah, right. Okay, thank you very much.

[71:47]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_48.62