David Dawkins' commentary I read yesterday, but I want to read once again. Knowing without relating to affairs. Knowing is not perception. Perception has its limits. Knowing is not of recognition. Recognition is that which is produced. Accordingly, knowing is not relating to affairs. Not relating to affairs is knowing. It shouldn't be considered as universal knowing, nor be restricted in the narrow sense of self-awareness. Not relating to affairs means coming as brightness.

[01:11]

I heed to the brightness. Coming as darkness, I heed to the darkness. Setting in, tearing the skin produced by the mother. Illuminating without reflecting upon environments. This illumination is not of shining, nor of spiritual shining. Not reflecting upon environments is considered as illumination, which there are no environments connected with illumination, because environments are illumination. Not reflecting upon means nothing in the universe that is hidden.

[02:15]

Breaking the barrier which no head sticks out. Subtle, wondrous, merging and not merging. The next commentary says, Knowing that is subtle of itself is to think without discrimination. That thinking is knowing does not always ask for other power. This knowing is a form. The form is mountains and rivers. These mountains and rivers are subtle. This subtle is wondrous. When you use it, it is vigorously alive as leaping fish.

[03:22]

Knowing that is subtle of itself is to think without discrimination. That thinking is knowing does not always ask for other power. This knowing is a form. The form is mountains and rivers. These mountains and rivers are subtle. This subtle is wondrous. When you use it, it is vigorously alive as leaping fish. The important point here is, Knowing is a form. The form is mountains and rivers. The mountains and rivers are subtle.

[04:29]

This subtle is wondrous. When you use it, it is vigorously alive as leaping fish. So knowing is wisdom. The wisdom of knowing is not something abstract. Not merely something spiritual or mental things. But it is form. That form is not also shadow. That form is not shadow, not formality, idea of formality. It is exactly mountains and rivers. So that's why from this point, these mountains and rivers are very subtle. It's not the mountains and rivers you have understood.

[05:32]

So it's very subtle and wondrous. This subtle is wondrous. That's why if you use mountains and rivers, If you use knowing, it is vigorously alive as leaping fish. It is not something abstract, you think. But if you use it, it is really something alive. Just like leaping fish. So this is a very interesting point. Wisdom is not only the spiritual, material, spiritual thing. No. Dogen Zenji, anyway, see very clearly, Wisdom or knowing which is exactly a form. Well, let's... I want to remember... I want to recall you... Excuse me.

[06:34]

I want to remind you of the explanation yesterday. The sea world, I mentioned yesterday. Temporarily, I talked about three worlds. A and B and C. A is the world surrounded by ego consciousness. B world is the world unknown by ego consciousness. The C is, generally speaking, the truth, true world. Or, in terms of the functioning of the true world, We may call it ocean seal samadhi. Ocean seal samadhi. Millions and millions of diamonds are reflected in this ocean.

[07:42]

Ocean means truth. Ocean means truth, which is one, exactly one. No secondary, no sense of secondary. Exactly one. This is the truth. So, ocean means... Ocean means the truth. The seal means phenomenal world or human world. Samadhi is a concentration, we usually say. But concentration means the truth, ocean, and also phenomena, so-called seal, both work together in peace and harmony without creating any gap. In other words, oneness.

[08:43]

That is called samadhi. From this point, all humans, millions and millions of diamonds, which the world holds, are constantly, always, right in the middle of samadhi. It is called perfect peace. Truth, existence is in samadhi. Whatever it is, all beings are exactly right in the middle of samadhi. This is the total picture, the overall picture of existence. That is called the sea world. Truth, we say truth. Usually, yesterday I mentioned, we usually see that truth,

[09:49]

ocean, seal, samadhi, objectively at a distance. But the problem is we don't realize how far between our life and that sea world. But usually we believe we will be one with the truth. No, we always see the truth at a distance. This is very common. The problem is we don't realize how far we are between. Religiously, if you practice spiritual life very seriously, most people become very emotional. So, in terms of emotional point of view, you don't realize. You can pretty easily jump over from A to B.

[10:52]

From A to B, or from B and C. You don't realize between. So your life is very simple. Just believe. Just like a vending machine. So, I think the Dokinzenji, they realize the truth with wisdom. But that wisdom comes down to the sea world. And seeing very clearly, millions and millions of diamonds reflected in that ocean, sea world. But reflections of millions and millions of diamonds are not different from the truth itself. Because truth is nothing but

[11:56]

working just like a function of digestion. So truth is always working. If all sentient beings are reflected, all forms, millions and millions of forms of beings are digested. All dissolved naturally. So, no gap between. That's why the Dokinzenji very clearly sees all forms in the ocean sea of Samadhi. That's why all millions and millions of diamonds are reflected in the ocean and melted away, becoming one, working together. So that is called Samadhi. Oneness. But yesterday I mentioned the sea world is not different from A and B.

[13:02]

That's why A and B and C come together anyway. So finally, Dokinzenji really sees very clearly that sea world within the form of trees, form of gassho, form of zazen, form of speaking, form of walking. Anyway, very clearly he can see that ocean sea of Samadhi within every single form of beings, all sentient beings. So, that's the reflection of all millions of diamonds in the ocean are simultaneously the form of all sentient beings.

[14:05]

We can see. So, that's why Dokinzenji mentions wisdom knowing is a form. Wisdom is a form. So, in other words, to see, if you can see very clearly, if you can see very clearly all sentient beings reflected in the ocean, that is called knowledge, wisdom. Ocean means you see the oneness, sameness. I mention sometimes the huge horse pastures, all sentient beings exist, but ocean means just like a mirror,

[15:06]

glassy surface of the ocean, very clear, serene. That is huge. So, that is ocean or truth, sameness, one and sameness. Or sometimes we say universe, sometimes. But that oneness and the sameness is not philosophical in state, but it is something real, something real. So, you can see very clearly all sentient beings are working there. Then, that reflection of the millions of diamonds in the ocean is simultaneously the form of all millions of diamonds. So, it's not the reflection of the millions of diamonds

[16:14]

and not something abstract in the concept. It is exactly the same as the form of beings we are confronted with. Yes. Reflect? Huh? Reflect? Well, reflect means temporarily I use reflect just like a mirror. If you stand up in front of the mirror, you are reflected in the mirror. So, your form of you is not different from the form of the reflection, form of you reflected in the mirror. It's exactly the same. Okay? Is that clear?

[17:15]

Reflections. So, if you use a reflection, we can immediately think of two things, real things and also reflections, shadows. But it's not two things. Because in the Ocean Seal Samadhi, all things working together are digested. This is the truth. This is the basic nature of our existence. So, we can see ourselves as a form that is not different from your form to his form. On the basis of existence, all things are digested. All are digested. Okay? So, that is form of.

[18:18]

Currently, form of microphone, form of trees. So, it's very deep. So, form is not merely form. So, form is really confirmed within that basis of existence. All are aware, all are digested completely. So, that's why it says, Knowing is form. Form is mountains and rivers. So, Dogen Zenji clearly sees the form of the mountains within the Ocean Seal Samadhi. In the truth of Buddha nature itself.

[19:21]

That's why it says these mountains and rivers are very subtle. Very subtle. You cannot judge exactly. That's why philosophically, if you explain, we have to go through the three stages. Mountains are mountains. Mountains are not mountains. Then, mountains are mountains. Something like that. So, mountains and rivers, we see are not simple beings. It's the whole universe. Whole universe and all sentient beings or our lives are just like a complex, complex whole. Very complex whole. It's very deep. It's not shallow. But it's simple. It's very simple, but it's complex.

[20:24]

It is a complex whole. Because A and B and C worlds are completely working together. Okay? So, that's why this subtle is wondrous. This subtle is completely inconceivable and incredible. Inexplainable. So, mountains and rivers are really inconceivable. Human life and trees, birds, all sentient beings are completely incredible and wondrous and explainable. That's why if you use it, anyway, it is vigorously alive and sleeping fish.

[21:31]

It's really helping you. So, when you use a form of Geshe-o, anyway, with this deep understanding, anyway, it's really alive. It's really alive. It makes your life alive. So, form of Geshe-o makes your life. Your life makes life of Geshe-o simultaneously. That's why it's wondrous. Boat life. Dogen then says, boat life. Boat life makes your life. Life makes boat. Sky makes life of bird. Bird makes life of sky. So, sky and bird working together.

[22:33]

Because life of bird is subtle and wondrous. It's something more than a form of bird we think. It's very deep and wondrous. Inconceivable. That's why if the bird uses his own form, exactly, bird really makes life of sky. That means he can fly forever. Then, simultaneously, sky makes life of bird. Even though bird doesn't want to fly, anyway, sky makes him fly. So, this is, anyway, this is a very interesting, excited point that Dogen Benji mentions.

[23:39]

Wisdom is a form. Form is mountains and rivers. This is a very important point because he exactly be one. He is exactly existing right in the middle of the sea world. Not A, not B. Anyway, sea world. And then, looking at the A and B. And dealing with the A and B. Living, he is living right in the middle of the sea world. But if you live of A world that is called, you know, the world of desires. That's it. Egoistic world. Ego consciousness. World covered with ego consciousness. That's it. Then, if you see B world, you can jump over.

[24:40]

But even though you transfer from the A to B, still A follows you. The more you try to living in the B world, A still with you. That's why, very naturally, you suffer. Lots. That is called the sin. Idea of sin coming up naturally. In a good sense. But in a bad sense, anyway, it is called kind of a sense of guilty. Always there is a strong sense of guilty there. In front of, in front of. Anyway, in front of the B world. Right in front of the B world. Anyway, you always feel guilty. Because you cannot be one.

[25:48]

So, always separate it. If you become one, A and B become one, there is no problem anyway. In order to let them be one, anyway, you have to stand up the C world. That is Buddha nature. Buddha nature. Then, you can deal with A and B. So, for instance, let's imagine that the A world is moving a projector. Moving a projector and film there. And then, in terms of A world, we always see the film, each frame of the film. Holding fast of each frame. And stay with it.

[26:56]

This is a world of desire. It depends on the individual, how far, how long you can hold it and stay with it. And each single frame depends on you. It depends on your awareness. If you awaken quickly, you can move it. You can move it. So, film goes up. Anyway, move. But in that moment, anyway, we want to stop it. So, always you can see the film from this side and then hold it and stay with it. This is a world of desire, anyway. Next moment, you don't see the life which is moving smoothly because of some problem.

[28:02]

So, that's why next you have to do something. That is, immediately you want to move. You want to operate that projector. So, projector starts to move. At that time, what that projector operates means to deny your desire. Which you want to stop it and stay with it. So, very naturally, in order to know a little bigger world, more than your world, I think you have to operate projector. What it means, you have to anyway deny. That's why don't touch. Religiously speaking, not touch.

[29:06]

Not touch your desires. Not touch your senses. Very naturally, because life has to operate smoothly. Nevertheless, in the A world, you cannot see the total picture of the world. So, very naturally, projector is operating, but still your world is your world. So, very small world you can see. You don't see the exact screen. No. So, constantly you operate yourself, operate the projector, but for what? Just for yourself. So, projector always looking at yourself, and then your life doesn't work, and then you realize that the projector should operate. So, it starts to operate, but all activities are always just for you.

[30:08]

In the present. Not past, not future. That is, you know, the world surrounded by ego consciousness. Then, if you continue to do this, still you realize that there are still lots of problems there. Then, naturally, you can go beyond A world. By realization of negation of the A world. Then, simultaneously, negation of A world lets you see screen. In the screen, your world, and also in the past, in the future, in the present. Whole world, including all circumstances. Whole world are reflected in the screen. This is B world.

[31:11]

Then, immediately, we believe that is a wonderful world, and then you want to stay within the B world. Then, you practice hard. Then, you realize wonderful world beyond the A world, but the more you seriously practice, anyway, A world appears very clearly, clearer than before. So, if you become good boy, the more you can see, bad boy, how bad you are, clearer than before. It's natural. So, this is a dualistic mundane world. If you do this, if you stay with it, you're never separate from this one. Always with it. And, even though A is with you, but A never be one with you, still A is separate.

[32:20]

That's why always there is an idea coming up. Then, you suffer. That is, in a good sense, religiously, a certain system is established. That is theology, buddhology, etc. In human beings, you are, anyway, sinful person, being. It's coming up naturally. Then, the more you see clearly how sinful you are, then it means you are working in B world. Very clearly. So, both come together. Then, simultaneously, you can see something more than A and B. That is C world, so-called truth. In other words, truth is a place where the cause A and B world exist, to exist.

[33:35]

Simultaneously. This is called truth, which is one. Sound. Then, we call Buddha. Buddha, Dharma, we call Dharma. Sometimes, we call God, etc. But still, Dharma and God are still something separate from us. We are looking at them, at the distance. So, if you have a strong intention to see this, to practice spiritual life, you can make the distance short. Pretty short. Very close, you can approach. Pretty close. That's almost the same.

[34:36]

You seem to be in the C world, but it's pretty close. It's not exactly one with it. Because, constantly, we have to say, we have to bring up that C world, in order to remind ourselves of how close we are. So, we have to always remind ourselves. So, we can come very close to it, but never be one. So, if you have a very strong intention, serious intention, to practice spiritual life, you come to very close. So, that is called religious person, spiritual person, you see. But, Zen, generally speaking, or Dogen's way, is anyway a way to be one, exactly C world.

[35:53]

At that time, nothing to bring up special things. So, called Buddha and etc. That's why everyday life itself, life itself is. Really Buddha. So, from this point, that he says, without touching affairs, anyway, you can know. Without relating to environment, anyway, you can illuminate. So, very naturally, if you stand up in the C world, you can see both world, A and B. So, very naturally, the person who stands up in the C world, he understands very well how to guide those people in A world and B world.

[37:00]

So, that's why sometimes he or she told them, anyway, shut up, sometimes, just do it, something like that. So, negative way is shown to him or to her. But, usually, we don't believe this one because we're always looking at each frame of the film. And creating, and stay with it, watching all these human feelings and emotions. So, we are very much involved in the feelings and intellectual understanding itself. So, that's why you cannot go beyond. Always a little bit go beyond, and then the projector starts to operate, but you come back again.

[38:07]

Come back to, anyway, behind the film, and then watch each film, and attach to it, and stay with it. This is very common, human world. But if you stand up in the C world, you can see very clearly what's going on in the A world. So, very naturally, that person has to see those people like trees, birds, you know. Like this person in the C world has to deal with the people in the A world like trees and birds. Instead of being involved in human feelings and emotions too much. So, they cut off, they go. Since, I think, a little bit against the religious way is being against human feelings, human emotions.

[39:20]

It's not called. The religious person understands very well what human feeling is, human emotion is. That's why they have to. They have to guide people, you know, clearly sometimes cut off, sometimes cease. And then guide them to go ahead. But people always ask, Zen Buddhism don't accept feelings and emotions, it's called. But, I want to say, if you emphasize feelings and emotions, then what? I want to say. So, very naturally, if you want to see human world in a broad universal perspective, well, where the spiritual life has to tell you, you know, to break off and to cut off.

[40:36]

Anyway, that emotional strength, that attachment, anyway, go ahead. That's pretty hard for us, but anyway, this is a religious spiritual life. Any kind of spiritual life, it's the same things. If you always emphasize human feelings, humanity, and human sense, the unusual sense, you never go beyond. Because it is a kind of quicksand. Quicksand. So, anyway, important point is you are, we cannot ignore the feelings and emotions, but you cannot be, you know, quicksand. Okay? So, we have to go beyond. That's why here says, knowing without, you know, without touching affairs.

[41:41]

You are affairs, but you cannot touch so long. You are already human feelings, human emotions, but not much. You have to be, you cannot be one, you cannot be always with it. Okay? You have to go beyond. Beyond. So, let me say like this, Shobo Genzo, Sesshin Sessho, preaching the mind, preaching the original nature. Sesshin Sessho, there is a conversation between Bodhidharma and the second patriarch. This translation is not good, so I have to explain.

[42:49]

But the main conversation is Bodhidharma said to the second patriarch, Ekadashi. Seize all environments, excuse me, externally seize all environments, and internally do not make your mind pant. Pant, P-A-N-T. Gasp. Keep your mind like fences and walls, then you can enter the way. So, externally, this is the main story. Bodhidharma told to second patriarch, externally seize all environments. There are two terms here.

[43:53]

Affairs and environments. Affairs is implication of physical existence. So-called human body. Human body or materialistic form of trees, etc. Or everyday life, materialistic aspect of everyday life. This is called affairs. Environments means mental aspect of everyday life. So when you do Zazen, the affairs means the form of Zazen, ok? Form of posture, postures. Your physical postures and physical organs and flesh and bone and marrow, etc. But environments means mental situation coming up in Zazen from your head.

[44:57]

Thoughts, ideas, and suffering and pains, etc. So, that is environment in a sense. So when you sit down, when you participate in the affairs, when you receive affairs, so-called Zazen posture, immediately you can have lots of environments, mental world come up. So, externally seize all environments. Externally, so you can sit down there, but you have to seize all environments, mental situation, mental world coming up always. But you have to seize. Anyway, don't meddle with it. Don't fight.

[45:59]

Let them go. Let them go constantly. All you have to do is be present right now, right here. Just achieve continuation of being present right now, right here. With sincerity, with true heart. That's all we can do. And then, it is called Samadhi. You can be one with Zazen. Physically and mentally. It means, internally, do not make your mind panicked. At that time, your mind will never be panicked. You become very calm. And then, next says, keep your mind like fences and walls. It means, not your mind is like fences and walls.

[47:01]

It means, mind is exactly your fences. Just like fences. What is a mind? Mind is microphone. Mind is table. Mind of trees. Mind is winter. So that is called, keep your mind like fences and walls. Your mind is tree, exactly. Not gap. But if you say, your mind must be like fences and walls, it means a very cold mind. No, I don't think so. So your mind is exactly fences and exactly walls. Trees, birds. Okay? Then, you can enter the way. At that time, you can see the overall picture of existence.

[48:04]

This is called the way. Including A and B. And also C. You can see the C world. That is called wisdom. Wisdom. And then, after the Bodhidharma statement, the second patriarch didn't understand the statement, so he practiced hard. Finally, he told Bodhidharma, he said, I seize. I seize externally all environments and internally do not make my mind pan like this. Then, Bodhidharma, he says, Bodhidharma had already perceived that the second patriarch had truly attained enlightenment

[49:08]

and didn't question him further. But, Bodhidharma gave a hint, a suggestion to him, saying, I wonder if you break off. Break off, or if you, I wonder if you die out. Die out. Means die out, subject not. Because seize all environments, seize all of you, throw away, cast aside all of you, and seize all environments, means you shouldn't touch no object, means break off, or die out. You cannot die out in your object.

[50:12]

So, seize all environments doesn't mean to die out the object, or to break off the object, existence of object or subject. So, that's why he says, he says, I wonder, I wonder you don't die out, object. Then, second patriarch says, no, I don't. I know, very clearly, always. I know, very clearly, always. This is very important. So, according to one Zenji's poem,

[51:18]

he says, knowing without relating to our fears. A little bit I want to change, knowing without touching our fears, I want to say. And the next, illuminating without, I said, reflecting upon, instead of reflecting upon, I want to use relating to. So, knowing without touching our fears, illuminates, knows without touching our fears, illuminates without relating to environments. Touching is more, you know, realistic, and in original, it uses touch,

[52:22]

or touch, tangibility. So, I think without touching our fears, and instead of reflecting upon, I want to say relating to. Relating to. So, knows without touching our fears. So, without touching our fears doesn't mean completely ignoring the object itself. That's why, next, he says, knowing, you have to know. You have to know. So, without touching our fears, it is. It is true. It means you don't touch your feelings and emotions, which you like.

[53:23]

You like staying, you like very much staying with each frame of film. But, anyway, you have to know. But you cannot stay with it. So, that means without touching this one. But, you have to know what the feeling is, what the human emotions are. This is knowing. That's why the second page says, I know. Very clearly, always. So, it doesn't mean, Zen doesn't emphasize to ignore the human feelings. But, in order to understand the human feelings, anyway, you cannot touch our fears. You cannot touch our fears. You cannot touch

[54:25]

the emotions. If you touch emotions, feelings, I think you are always dealing with dualistically. Dualistically. My feelings and your feelings, always. So, you never know the peaceful human feelings. Working together with all sentient beings, no. So, that feeling is very violent. Very violent. In many ways. Materialistically and mentally. So, even in spiritual life, you know, if you are always staying in the B world, it seems to be very peaceful. But, in the deep level, there is always violence there. So, religion always mentions a peaceful world, but there are lots of stories of violence

[55:26]

here, mentally and spiritually, in the history. Very aggressive. Very aggressive. So, very naturally, I think this is very important. If you become one with Zazen as it is, exactly, there is no form of Zazen anyway. If you do Gassho, really with wholeheartedness, I think Gassho is not the palms come together, put together, no. That means the Ocean Seal Samadhi lets you do Gassho. The Ocean Seal Samadhi does Gassho anyway. This is not you. You cannot do Gassho, you know. If you do Gassho, immediately, that Gassho is you and Gassho.

[56:28]

So, very naturally, there is an argument there. So, I think if you do Gassho, anyway, that truth, big world, big world. How can I say? If you stand up in the sea world and do Gassho, that time, Gassho is not form of palm putting together. Sea world shows Gassho, form of Gassho. That's it. So, form of Gassho is not narrow sense, very subtle, wondrous. That time, Gassho shows universe. So, if you do Gassho, very clearly and

[57:29]

through openheartedness and wholeheartedness, that means simultaneously manifesting whole universe, A and B and C, exactly. That's why people are very moved, if you practice continually to do this. That's why next says, one Shakyamuni Master says, illuminate without without relating to environments. Okay? Do you have questions? War means that

[58:34]

mental and spiritual spiritual, mental, you know, violation, you know, kind of fighting. That kind of things. I understand that. And the reason being that from the B world you see the shortcomings in the A world and then people become self-righteous about that? Beg your pardon? So, in the B world you see very clearly the A world. Yeah? No, no. There is A world, of course you can see, but still, juristically, you can see the A. But, anyway, you have to stand up for C world and then you can see A and B both. Yeah. But I'm not I don't quite understand why you know, we always have violence. You know, the greatest violence because there is still a distance there between the A and B

[59:37]

and B and C. Still distance there. But spiritually it's very close. It depends on the degree how much intention you have, religiously speaking. And then you come to cross. So distance, you can make the distance short, very short. But there is still distance there. Even slightly spiritually speaking, even if there is some gap, that is violence. There is speech of violence there. I think that, as I said before, that helped me just now understand what you said, that if subject and object are still there, the result will always be a space of violence. And when there is no subject and object, then the result will always be a space of violence. I want,

[60:38]

could you say something about what verification means? Completion is not merging. This completion is verified of itself. And then this completion that is verified, I guess I don't know exactly what the word verification means. That's pretty hard to translate it. Existence itself, real existence itself, real existence verifies itself by itself, of itself. This is verification. Nothing, nothing special object, other object. Who is verifier or who is prove, who prove. So existence itself verifies

[61:38]

its own being, its own being by itself. This is called verification, he says. It's called very deep enlightenment. So, being here is a completion manifestation and completion. Completion means being present, becoming one, becoming right now from day to day, from moment to moment, you become you, you become you, you become you as you really are. This is completion. So manifestation form of your body that is simultaneously becoming you, becoming you, continuation of becoming you, becoming you. That is called completion. That completion and manifestation is nothing but verification.

[62:40]

That is called existence, presence. And desire. Because a lot of fear, especially in relationships, involve desire. They occur because of desire. Actually, going into a spiritual life is a result of a desire. So, I guess the way I understand it is in a relationship you rather than cling

[63:43]

to the desire with your ego, you simply yeah, I suppose if you were in this ego and you saw somebody else and you found yourself attracted to them, rather than getting into a big discussion about it, you simply sort of be like privacy and guidance and you would flow in that direction and the relationship would occur. Is that what it means? You touch the affair which is your attraction to another person, but you don't get involved in some sort of neurotic discussion about it. You just do it. And you don't try. Well, even though experience and practice are important, I don't think you're always involved in. In other words, I don't think you should do, you should experience,

[64:44]

you should practice everything. For instance, you are free, exactly you are free, so whatever you do that's fine. So whatever you do, it is your Buddha. So in terms of the sea world, it's all right. But the question is, even though you want to choose bank robbery, I don't think you should do it. Even though you want, you want to make a choice. I don't think you should do it. If you do it, you will get some different, something different, completely world, what you have never expected happens. And this is everyday's realities. So that is one point. Even though good things, even though good things, you cannot always practice and experience it directly. Sometimes you cannot.

[65:45]

You don't touch it. But you have to know it. You have to know. It doesn't mean you should ignore the bank robbery. Because bank robbery is always there. So you should know what the bank robbery is. You know? You should know what the marijuana is. One of the Zen teachers said, you know, they emphasized to experience marijuana because he wanted to experience. And then he took marijuana and the next day completely he was in bed. But even though it is, it is pretty good in order to understand people who love marijuana because you experience. For instance, married life is pretty good because you understand human emotions. Yes, it is. I don't think I can recommend

[66:46]

to everyone you should marry. I don't. I can't. Marriage life is now obviously beautiful image. But I don't think marriage life is bad image. I cannot tell you anything. Do you understand? So, important point is you have to understand what the marijuana is. But even though you in order to understand that the people who, people's feeling who loves the marijuana it is not true. You should take marijuana directly, you know. So sometimes you shouldn't touch it. Okay? But it means you should know what the marijuana is. Many people gave me the marijuana in the past, you know. I said, thank you very much.

[67:46]

The next day she mentioned, did you taste it? No, not yet. But they say always, you should experience it. Yes, I will. But I never. But I know, I know what it is. So I don't want to experience it. So, sometimes those things is always there. And then what is what what is what you should do it, actually practice. That's why there is a certain teaching there. According in terms of Buddha's teaching, anyway, we try to do it. It's something. Alright? That is Buddha's teaching and Dharma is yardstick for you. Okay? What you have to do. Okay? That is a basic, you know, the principle for us. That is one point, alright? And

[68:48]

I feel many things in this world like that, you know. Not touching, without touching our fear that means don't touch, don't touch the microphone. It doesn't mean don't touch. Because if I say don't touch without touching means already touching there. Not touching implicates alright? Implicates touching. You understand? So simultaneously there. So, important point how do you how do you deal with object? That's point. Because not touching

[69:50]

implicates touching. So, not touching and touching off is there. From this point you never get out from there. But, you understand? So all important point is how do you deal with object? You want to stop the film and touch it for long it depends on how on you. How long you stay with it or how short you stay with it. So if you stay with it for long that is so called real touching because touching create the create the bigger scale of the touching. so very naturally you have to not touching without touching appears means you have to go

[70:52]

through touching just like a water as best we can. Means projector should operate and center the films going ahead concentrate. That is not touching without touching. Okay? Thank you. You explain A B and C what is that talking? He said he said shoulder and double and not three stages after five years five hundred years

[71:53]

it will continue the the practice the Buddha teaching and the next stage for five hundred years it will continue the yoga that one is practice following the Buddha teaching and after that the next after that five hundred years and the next five years after the thousand thousand years later it will become the Macphose stage the Macphose end of the Buddha teaching and just for to try to without practicing we want to understand through the head without

[72:54]

real practice and if I think it opposite Macphose Macphose is the A word and Yoga is the B word and Chobu is C word then my understanding is that three stages after the Chakyamuni Buddha teaching is not only in the history that the three stages is also in our daily life we have three stages three stages means because now it is the Macphose stage Macphose stage so we are very bottom then from our practice I can

[73:54]

return to B word then also I can return to the C word then when I return the C word I that means I can to home and sit at home so this one is definite and the human being world and the celestial being world and Buddha world my dear that three words Soko Macpho Shobo right down age Soko middle age and Macphose last age

[74:56]

that is idea of analysis of same booze teaching after his death. So, the idea is a little different. But, if you, we can we can see three words, zoho, mapo, and shobo, in everyday life. If you want to say, yes, you can. The shobo seems to be a C word. Mapo is A word. B word is zoho. Yes, we may say. But, the idea is completely different from the, I mentioned, the three

[75:56]

words, A B C, D, A B C. Hmm? C word? It's quiet, exactly, but simultaneously, it's not always quiet. It's work. It's work, yes. Because, you have to see A and B word and deal with A and B word, equally.

[77:08]

So, you can't always say C word. It's calm, very naturally, everything is reflected in that calm mind. At that time, you cannot ignore them, reflected in your mind, because it is quality of your life. So, each single being reflected in your mind, come and bring lots of problems, lots of things to you. So, you have to think of them, you have to walk with them, you have to think of them, you have to, anyway, talk with them. Because, they are not different from you. They are beings reflected in your very calm mind as contents of your life. It's your contents. It's your quality of your life. It's the quality of your life.

[78:27]

Okay? So, quality of your life is not only calm mind. Calm mind is the quality of your life and also quality of the whole world. The whole world must be in your life, in your calm mind. At that time, your life becomes calm and also you can share your life with people. You may naturally calm mind, but it doesn't stay with calm always. Calmness is not work. Yesterday, you said, in the B-World, we put ourselves in the appropriate place.

[79:28]

Yes. In the B-World. Is that also true in the C-World? Yes, C-World. But, C-World, that is a very pure sense of practice. Putting yourself exactly there. Exactly. Without creating any object, your object. Exactly put there. But, in the B-World, you can put yourself in a certain proper place, but still there is a comparison in itself, spiritually itself. So, very naturally, A-World is always something you can see. You can rely on the Buddha's word. You can rely on, you can believe, you can trust Buddha's teaching. Then, you can put yourself there, but still lots of mental struggles and mental things there.

[80:35]

So, A-World is still there. A-World never be one with you. A-World is still your object. That's why the more you practice in the spiritual life in the B-World, A-World comes up very clearly, than before, more clearer. But, in the C-World, A and B, exactly one. Anyway, one. No gap between. So, A is not object. Gassho, form of Gassho, is not object. You do. This is nothing but expressing the whole universe. That's why Dogen Zen says, one fist sticking out is whole universe. So, it is not sticking out, fist sticking out, doesn't mean one hand sticks out. No. But, that is whole world sticks out.

[81:43]

If you shake hands with universe, well, you don't. It doesn't mean your hand sticks out. Universe sticks out. Then, universe can shake hands with you. That's it. Isn't there a difference between putting yourself in the appropriate place in A-World and generating some expectation? Yes, still subtle, very delicate, minute, mental vibration constantly there, in the B-World. C-World is complete there. No, no expectation. All you have today is just B, exactly.

[82:38]

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