Consciously or unconsciously? If so, you have to plunge into the present. Extended into or of? So, Dawkins says, Just understand that birth and death itself is nirvana, and you will neither hate one as being birth and death, nor cherish the other as being nirvana. I said, put aside your karmic life. Means, don't hate. Don't hate. Don't cherish your life as being birth and death, seen from your karmic life. Okay, that's all right. I understand. You understand so well, because your karmic life is already there, with you. So, put aside anyway. Don't hate.

[01:03]

Don't cherish. And then, you should understand birth and death is nirvana. Okay, and my birth and death is nirvana. Means, let's do the same. Do the same, and all karmic life is rolling into the, you know, rolling into the moment. Extended into, okay? Into all universe. That is zazen. But usually, we always chase after the karmic life. You know, oh, oh, wait a minute. It is called seesaw game. But seesaw game, you know so well, in your karmic life, within the realm of the karmic life, you know so well, you know so well, your life enjoys playing the seesaw game. That's why you want to get out. Oh, my. I have enough. I have enough for playing seesaw game.

[02:05]

So sometimes I want to get out. Then you do zazen. But you know so well, if so, if you understand this point, don't hate first. Don't hate. Don't cherish. Then, let's find, let's find the great supreme way, okay? Supreme way, which, therefore, the whole your karmic life rolls into, okay? Rolls into the moment and the present. This present is not, is the case not for you. For everything, everybody, whole universe. This is pure present. It is called, philosophically speaking, time purity. Then, you should find,

[03:07]

you should find supreme way, which, therefore, the whole your karmic life rolls into. Rolls into that moment. That is zazen. So that's why Dogen says, don't worry about it. Don't worry. Throw away good and bad. Throw away good and bad is, that's all right. That's all right. Put aside good and bad. Put aside good imagination of kind of bodhisattva or miserable imagination of arahat. Doesn't matter. Please put aside. And then, let's find. Let's go. Let's go on the way, which, therefore, you roll into, therefore, whole your karmic life rolls into it. Moment. That is zazen. That is nirvana. Then, Dogen says, birth and death is nirvana. Also, Shakyamuni Buddha says,

[04:07]

enlightenment, Shakyamuni Buddha says, your life must be logical, reasonable. So, because you have a head, you try to think carefully. And then you have to, sometimes your life must be seen from the philosophical aspect. Sometimes it must be seen from psychological aspect. Sometimes astrological aspect. That's okay. If you want. But, that's all right. Put aside. The important point is, let's go. Let's go. Let's go into present. Let's go find the way, best way. This is best way. Even though you don't feel best way, this is best way. Practically speaking, it is better way. Better way. Shakyamuni Buddha says,

[05:11]

reasonable understanding, reasonable understanding, philosophical aspect, in terms of philosophical aspect, or psychological aspect, anyway, reasonable understanding of human being, by this, you attain enlightenment. Yes, you can attain enlightenment. Many Buddhist scholars attain enlightenment, in a sense. Let's imagine Kwanzee. Dr. Kwanzee, he really attained enlightenment. Alan Watts also attained enlightenment. I really appreciate. But, there is something more important you have to, must take into account. It means, Buddha says, reasonable understanding, in other words, wisdom, or enlightenment, must be rolled into,

[06:16]

rolled into nirvana. Nirvana. Nirvana means, I mentioned already, your enlightenment, your delusions, your understanding of Buddha, all must be, your karmic life, understanding of karmic life, understanding of the true aspect of human life, all are rolled into, moment, extended into, all of universe. At that time, the conception, conceptual understanding, of the nirvana, enlightenment, or wisdom, completely disappears. To disappear means, to be alive, with your life, with your life, with your intellectual understanding, with you,

[07:19]

alive, is nirvana. That's why Shakyamuni Buddha says, wisdom, or supreme powers, supreme powers, in addition of understanding, all are transformed into nirvana. All are rolled into nirvana. So, put aside karmic life, first, let's find, let's find, let's go the way, which never your whole karmic life, all your understanding, rolled into, the moment, into, extended into, everywhere. That's why you said, evolve with all sentient beings. Gassho is not practice you do. Gassho is the practice you do,

[08:21]

and with all sentient beings. At that time, your gassho is completely rolled into nirvana. Then, at that time, gassho is alive. Then someone, when someone see your gassho, someone is completely impressed, impressed by your gassho. By your zazen. Yes. Because your gassho is, completely become one with universe. One of Japanese, cameraman of TV, had the chance to interview, one of famous Zen master. And then, cameraman asked the Zen master, what is the Buddhism? What is Buddhism? That is his first question. What is the Buddhism? Zen master says, Buddhism is become one with universe. And then,

[09:24]

cameraman said, is it possible, to become one with universe? Zen master said, oh yes. That Zen master was Sawakiroshi. Sawakiroshi? Yes, this is very true. Become one with universe. That's why you have to use your head, with calm, with calmness. And see into the deep down nature of being. You can find the very pure aspect of moment. If I find this pure aspect moment, as next step, how can you? How can you become one with it? That is practice. So, even though you don't understand,

[10:25]

Zazen always leads you to roll into it. That is Zazen. That is Zazen. Because you find your life, karmic life is completely becoming pure. Becoming pure. Moment after moment. That's why you see lots of things. Wow, wow. Two weeks ago I wrote the letters to Noiri Roshi. And I wrote the address, envelope. And then I came to the Zen center, and first period of session, ah, a mistake. I made a mistake address. I didn't realize, I didn't realize when I'm writing, when I was writing the address,

[11:27]

I didn't know. But the moment when I said, in the first period of session, ah, I'm sorry for Noiri Roshi. I made a mistake. You know, the karmic life gradually becomes pure, and pure, and appears here. Then everybody was very, very surprised. It is a mistake to think you pass from birth to death, being one stage of total time. Birth is already possessed of before and after. For this reason, in the Buddha Dharma, it is said that birth itself is no birth.

[12:27]

Being one stage of total time as well, cessation of life also is possessed of before and after. Thus, it is said, extinction itself is no extinction. It is a mistake. It is a mistake to think that from birth to death, you pass from birth to death. You should keep in mind first. Being one stage of total time, birth is already possessed of before and after. For this reason, in the Buddha Dharma, it is said that birth itself is no birth. Twenty-five more?

[13:32]

Twenty-five more. One more. Being, Dogen says, being one stage of total time, your life is one stage of total time, total time. Let's think again the moment as mentioned, pure aspect moment.

[14:50]

So your life, life and death, is really based on absolutely, based on this moment, pure aspect moment. What you cannot simply insert any germination of conception into it is pure aspect moment. It is called sometimes vastness or immenseness. It is called Buddha, Buddha's nature or Buddha world, Buddha working. Whatever you say, that your life is completely equal to this moment, that this moment is vast moment, this moment is huge, this moment is pure aspect moment. If so, you know,

[15:53]

we have, I am now 44 years old, if I see my life, seeing from karmic life, oh yes, I am 44, sometimes I really think of my body, sometimes touch my heart, oh yes, my heart is beating now. Ah, great. Sometimes, great. Sometimes, during this scene, really I have a headache, but headache is okay for me, because headache is really make me realize I am alive. So I feel pain, but in a sense, my life is now my life. My life is very vast moment, you know. So if I see my life,

[16:56]

from my karmic life, really I can't stand, I can't stand myself before my karmic life, because I have to die. I have to die tomorrow maybe, right after lecture. This is really, you know, one of the scholars, famous Buddhist scholars speak, give lectures on stage. Then, right after the lecture, let's imagine, you know, let's imagine your life, seeing from your karmic life, wow, I can't stand, I can't be the patience, right before the karmic life help. But at that time, please calm. Make your head calm,

[17:57]

and what is my life? What is my life? There is, Dogen says, you should learn, Dogen says, you should learn that birth and death is apparently found within the practice, within the way, Buddhist way. In other words, within the practices, that practice is a way, a basis, a pure basis, pure basis of being, extended into all universe. This is way, Buddhist way. This is Dharma. It is called Dharma. Then, birth and death, birth and death is apparently found within the practice, and the practice is not seen within birth and death. So we always see,

[19:04]

I always see my birth from my karmic life, and then sometimes, I don't like the Zen, I don't like headache, sometimes why I have to practice the Zen, Sesshin very often, experiencing just the pain, nothing to gain. Why is that? If you see the practice, if you see the practice from your karmic life, your practice doesn't work so well. But, Dogen says, practice is not seen within birth and death. It's not seen from the birth and death. Birth and death must be seen

[20:08]

from the practice, from the moment extended into whole universe. So, I don't know how many years I will live in this world. That's alright. And now 44, 44 years old indicates that my life is represented in the form of, in the form of 44 years old. In other words, my life, no not my life, the moment extended all universe, the pure aspect moment extended into whole universe is represented in the form of 44 years old. Did you understand? 44 years old is not seen from the karmic life. If I see 44 years old

[21:10]

from my karmic life, wow, I'm already 44 years old. I wish I could be back to the young, but it's too late. So 44 years is represented by the moment, by the moment universe, the moment extended into whole universe is represented in the form, in the form of 44 years old provisionally, provisionally. That is my life, my life. So my life is not my life, my life is whole universe, whole universe. Then whole universe is rolling, rolling moment after moment, and then into the death, death is also whole universe. From the beginning to the end,

[22:12]

whole universe is rolling, not karmic life is rolling. If I see your life which is rolling, as a karmic life, wow, today this year is 44, next year, wow, 45 years old. Wow, what's happening? I don't like it. Then wherever I may be, after Sesshin I have to go to Minneapolis, wow, what's happening to Minneapolis? Cold. But cold is also something which the whole universe is represented in the form, just in the form of cold, weather, or heat. So whole universe is rolling on in the form, just in the form of cold and heat, and Katagiri,

[23:14]

and my parents, and Zen center, Monterey Zen center, and Minneapolis. So at that time, no life, no life means no karmic life, no karmic life. The life ends up completely by moment, extended. What is extended into the whole universe? Raw. Raw, moment on moment. So your life is small, but actually your life is huge, huge ball and rolling. See? That's amazing, that's amazing, that's wonderful. That's why Dogen says no life, no death. No death. But if you don't understand, please make practice

[24:15]

as much as possible. In other words, let's find the best way which leads you to reach your karmic life, your whole life, rolling into this vast moment. That is practice. That is Buddha's work, Buddha's practice. Moment after moment. Practice is not karmic practice. Practice is not seen from your karmic life. If you see your practice from a karmic life, what does that mean? It's really practice. But that doesn't practice. Let's imagine that doesn't lead you to roll into the whole moment, huge moment. With the movement of the universe.

[25:18]

This is really true. That's why we chant always, we eat with all sentient beings. We bow with all sentient beings. Practice is bowing. Practice is not a mean of calculating, calculating, calculating. Calculating. Calculating. No, no, no. Educating, you know, calculating. Calculating. [...]

[26:31]

Developing. Developing. You cannot, you cannot develop your life if you see your life from your karmic life. You can't. If you want to develop your life, you have to see your life from immense, immense world. If you don't understand, there is best way. Let's plunge into it. Let's chant. Thank you. When one speaks of birth, there is nothing at all

[27:33]

apart from birth. When one speaks of death, there is nothing at all apart from death. Therefore, when birth comes, you should just give yourself to birth. When death comes too, you should give. When death comes, you should give yourself to death. Do not hate them. Do not desire them. Yesterday, I mentioned how immensely

[28:36]

the moment in birth and death penetrates into every inch of the universe. If you make a deeper investigation into the deeper down nature of human being, I think you can get taste this reality even a little bit. I think so. So, strictly speaking, our life is

[29:39]

absolutely enveloped by immense expanse of the moment. This moment is not just a moment open to individuals, but also to everybody, to everything. So, yesterday I mentioned you shouldn't look at your life from karmic life. Because our life is not karmic life. Our life is completely equal to immense expanse of our moment.

[30:41]

In other words, life and death, birth and death is absolutely the manifestation, nothing but the manifestation of the immense expanse of the moment. That's all. This is birth and death. But usually we think birth and death is nothing but the manifestation of birth and death. You have thought that birth and death is seen from the karmic life. Then, oh, I don't like that. But, of course, you cannot escape from that karmic life. Anyway, later I will talk about this point too. You cannot escape from karmic life. That's all right. But the important point is

[31:44]

that you should keep in mind there is another way. Another way is that you have to see your life. Your life must be seen from the immense expanse of the moment. Not from the karmic life. The karmic life is seen from the moment which opens just to you, just to you. That's a terrible moment. But usually we enjoy very much ourselves in this moment. Ah, I got freedom. I got enlightenment. I don't think so. Enlightenment must be penetrating into

[32:45]

all universes. Yes? I think so. So from this point my life, 44 years old, now 44 years, I have lived for 44 years. Wow, how long I can have lived. My life, 44 years old, is nothing but the complete manifestation of the immense expanse of the moment. That's all. In other words, the immense expanse of the moment is provisionally represented by 44 years old now. So my life, 44 years old, is not 44 years old life.

[33:45]

My life is completely equal to the immense expanse of the moment. You know, this is very true. The moment when I live now, whatever I do, Satsang, lecture, in Japanese, in English, you know, every lecture has close relation to, with everybody, relation with whole universe. The moment, at the very moment when I give a lecture, my 44 years old life is nothing but the complete manifestation of the expanse

[34:49]

of the moment. This is the moment. Because you teach me. You always teach me. Not I teach you. You always teach me. That's why I can speak. I always learn lots of things from my talk. It means my talk has close relation with you and all sentient beings. Actually, when I lecture, anything from my karmic life, please, I don't like. When I lecture, when the lecture is seen from the immense expanse of the moment, the lecture always teaches me lots of things. Language too. You really hate language. You really hate the word or thought.

[35:49]

I don't think so. It's something wrong. Thoughts or words are very important for us. Why do you hate the words and the thoughts? Words and thoughts never teach you. Never teach you. Because words and thoughts, language and thoughts are completely turning into hatred. But actually, strictly speaking, even words, even thoughts, even writing the paper, I teach you many things. Before you hate, please believe, please see your life from the immense expanse of the moment. At that time, everything teaches you. So from this point,

[36:55]

my life is 44 years old. The life of 44 years old is not the life of 44 years old. The immense expanse of the moment. My life is an immense expanse of the moment. Roaring. From this point, no life, no death. Just the immense expanse of the moment disappears and appears. This is really true. Then next, Dogen says, when one speaks of birth, there is nothing at all apart from birth. When one speaks of death, there is nothing at all apart from death. Well, the question is, you understand,

[37:55]

you can get the taste of even a little bit how immense your life is extending. But there is some question. How can you relate? How can your karmic life relate with this immense expanse of the moment? Here is the basic of the human life. Birth and death. This is the immense expanse of the moment. And then, birth and death is here. This is birth and death. My karmic life. How can I relate? How can I relate this karmic life and immense expanse? We don't know. How can I? That is always the question. How can I?

[38:57]

This morning someone asked me, too, how can I relate? Well, how can I relate? How can you relate? How can you realize? Well, intellectually, you understand the existence of the immense expanse of the world, the moment. Then you are very interested. What is it? How can I relate with it? How can I call myself with it? Please teach me. But Buddha didn't teach. But human beings never stop being interested in this point. That's why you create

[40:08]

the study of astrology, the study of psychology, the study of laws. There is an old man, an old woman who is interested in the medium in Monterey. You know the medium? Medium. I met her and she wanted to practice Zazen. Oh, please come anytime. She is very interested in it. We always want to know how to relate. We want to know how to accord ourselves with this immense expanse of moment. That's why medium is very popular for us. You are very interested in medium,

[41:08]

study of medium. And then, that's okay. The Buddhism, Shakyamuni Buddha doesn't ignore the existence of medium or astrology. Or psychology, philosophy, that's all right. Because Shakyamuni Buddha completely accepts Brahmanism. Lots of philosophies, Indian philosophies, that's all right. The question is, even though you know, you go to the medium, you go to see the medium. And then I would like to talk, my father, who died, died 20 years ago. She said to me that I keep a certain posture, I don't know. She keeps continually

[42:12]

a certain posture. And then, in a moment, their bodies are jerking. At the same time, whole bodies are jerking. Not only the hands and the feet, eyes and mouth too. And start to speak. I am your father. And then she starts to speak. Instead of his father, who died 20 years ago. And then you listen to it. Oh, you are my father. And you enjoy very much to see your father. But, there is still questions.

[43:14]

Where is the person dead? Where is the person dead? It looks like, you know, there is a very tiny pumpkin seed. Pumpkin seed. You know this pumpkin seed, what happens on this? Pumpkin seed grows pumpkins, big pumpkins. You know so well. But, very interesting, we are very interested how does tiny pumpkin seed accord itself with big pumpkins. How? And then you try to wire. Hello, pumpkin. Hello, pumpkin. I am seed. Are you alright?

[44:17]

Oh, you see him? Okay, I will go to and settle a certain ground. And then the sun comes, rise and sun gives you warmness. And that time, three days later, please, your new sprout. Please, sprout. And then, a month later, please grow big pumpkins. Pumpkin says, oh yes, yes sir. Yes, I will. And then seeds go to a certain ground and sit. Worms come up, the sun comes up, and sun gives warmness to it. But unfortunately,

[45:19]

storms come immediately. And then pumpkin seeds is thrown away to a concrete. That is person death. That is person death. The seed knows so well. If you call telephone to the pumpkin, yes, you can get in touch with. It is very medium. Yes, you can touch. Oh my, I can't see the father. Hello, father. Oh, hello, Katagiri. Are you all right? Oh yes, I am all right. What are you doing? I am enjoying very much the hell. What?

[46:28]

Enjoying yourself in hell? I can't believe it. Hell. Hell. Hell. Pretty much enjoying. But it is not a relation. It is not a relation. Real relation with pumpkin seed. It is not a real relation with Katagiri and my father. Even though I feel relief, ah, but my life is my life. What is person death? Okay? Person death is person death is death. This guy.

[47:30]

Person death is is when pumpkin seed is placed on the ground and start to work. It is life and death. Even though pumpkin seed can get in touch with pumpkin, it is still the study of the medium. It is still science. Science does never, cannot, cannot never satisfy yourself, satisfy you. Still tell these questions. Ah. Wow.

[48:38]

Each moment cuts off. Each moment in itself is a universe of death. The next moment is another time. No. You cannot say the time is cut off. No. I don't think so. It means moment is, moment is not necessarily long and far and short and long and near and short, near and far. And cut and continue. It is not necessary. Each moment, immense, expansive moment. The moment you think is

[50:02]

office cutting off, that moment is the scene from a series of time you think. But this moment simultaneously extended into space. This is real moment. This is real moment. Within this space, the moment is not the cut off. Moment is completely continuing, continuation, not continuation, not the cut off. You cannot explain. Anyway, I will. All right.

[51:33]

All right. All right. Tell me something, what I talked. You are talking about always the question, how to relate. How to relate. Oh, yeah. Hmm. Oh. Hmm. Hmm. Oh.

[52:42]

You said that the medium studying the medium was studying something more sensitive, which I don't recognize. I used to work in that. Did you still hear him when he talked to you about it? No. Did you? Do you still have the experience? I don't know if I can talk to you. There's a door over there. I can't even watch. My head doesn't work.

[53:48]

How do we relate? We don't know if you're a medium. How do we relate? Please, sit down. Are you speaking of how we live? We understand that there is a great expanse of the moment. How does this manifest in the age of our conference?

[54:27]

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