Is there anything you'd like to discuss, or any questions you'd like to... Yes? Karin? It's fine, but I feel most easily alienated from other people, and lose that sense of, we're all human beings, and when I'm angry, what do I do? How do I deal with that? Yeah, I think that feeling angry is probably the most contradictory emotion to the reality of interdependence. Lust is actually a little closer, although lust is overdoing it a bit. Lust is kind of related to compassion. So one of the dangers of compassion is lust, that it would slip into that, into attachment and greed.

[01:01]

But anger is in some sense totally difficult to integrate with a sense of compassion, and a sense of non-duality. So we've got to be careful of that one. It seems easiest to hold on to that when I'm with a little child. It seems easy to do what? It's easier to be angry and also feel compassion when I'm with a little child, when I'm with a grown-up. Would you tell me about how you can be angry and be compassionate at the same time? Oh, I see.

[02:07]

Uh-huh. Well, if you see someone hurting themselves or hurting someone else, it's okay to just not like that they're hurting themselves. That's an appropriate anger, actually. What I meant by anger was ill will before. Wishing someone not the best, wishing them ill is contradictory to compassion. But when they're hurting themselves, to wish that they would stop and to say, I don't like that you're hurting yourself, that goes very nicely with compassion. So that kind of anger, in a sense, that you're angry towards non-compassion, that may be okay.

[03:14]

I just don't like that you're hurting yourself, I don't like that. But at the same time, I want you to be happy and healthy. I don't like that you're doing something that might hurt you or hurt someone else. And it maybe is easier to do with children. But from the point of view of compassion, everyone who's being unkind is a child. So when the Buddha sees us being unkind, the Buddha thinks we're being childish. And when a child's being kind, they're not being childish. They're being kind of grown up. They've grown up, they've grown into, you know, what we have the potential for, is to be kind. And really, what we're really doing is we're being non-dually compassionate, and we need help to wake up to that.

[04:22]

That's my story. Yes? Stories in parenting? Yes. Yes, right. Right. You see, you have stories about your children, and you see your children have stories, and then what? And they look similar to mine, and that's disturbing to me. Could you give an example? Well, let's see. Sometimes I have this idea that the story of me being a victim. Victim story. You have a story of being a victim? Yes. Vis-a-vis your children? No, no, my own story. Oh, I see. Oh, and then you see your child having a story of being a victim. Okay.

[05:30]

Could you hear her? So I have... Maybe I have a story of being a... She says maybe I have a story of being a victim, and then I notice my son has a story of being a victim, and I'm a little uncomfortable because I think maybe I've transmitted the story of being a victim to my son. And actually, you have transmitted the story of being a victim to your son, but so have a lot of other people. A lot of novelists and, you know, movie writers and friends. The story of being a victim is one of the stories, and we do transmit it to people, and some people can kind of come up with it without anybody transmitting it to them. Victim, the view of victim comes naturally from our basic delusion. So even if you didn't transmit it to your son, even if he likes it, even if you, like, every time you started to have the thought of the story of being a victim, you, like, smashed yourself so that it wouldn't develop, he would still be able to come up with it. But still, even though he came up with it

[06:37]

and you never said it to him or never thought it in his neighborhood, still, we're all responsible for the stories that are coming up among us. It's not to stop your son from having the story of victim or stop yourself. It's to not believe the story of a victim. It's to understand the story of a victim, not to believe it. The victim mindset? Yes. Yes, it does. And that's the transmission of, that's the transmission of the Dharma. The transmission of, understand the stories that you live in the midst of. Don't believe them. Don't believe the story that you're good and other people are bad, or other people are good and you're bad, or everybody's bad, or everybody's good. Those are all stories.

[07:40]

But listen to them all. Open to them all. And understand them all. And then you become free of them all. Including the basic one that's really wrong. Namely, we're not born together with all beings and we're not responsible for all beings. And all beings aren't responsible for us. That's the basic wrong one that we have to just get over. But it's basically the same thing that would apply to a wrong story, a harmful story, a story that really is bad to believe and a story which isn't so bad to believe. It's not as bad to believe other people are kind. But the point is to understand all stories and become free of all stories. And if you're working on that, the children can feel that. That gets transmitted. They can tell. They say, there's my mom, she thinks I'm, you know, this or that, but she's really not that hung up on her views of me.

[08:44]

And I have a story that's really cool. Our children like us to have good stories of them. But they also know that our stories are almost never really us. I mean, excuse me, they know our stories of them are never really them. I'm saying they know that, so they kind of like it when we have a really good story of them, but they kind of don't like it that it's not them. And I used to listen to my mother on the telephone tell her friends about me. And she used to say these amazingly wonderful things about me, which had nothing to do with me. And it really bothered me because she was basically using me as an opportunity for her to tell her friends what a great son she had. And she'd rather have her friends think she had a great son than actually tell them about the son that they had. This was my story. Well, he's kind of big and strong,

[09:48]

and that's about it. She'd make these elaborate exaggerations of any good quality I had so that her friends are probably going like, what is she talking about? This couldn't be true. Or like, jeez, you really have a great son. You must be a great mother. But I felt kind of betrayed because it wasn't really about me. Exactly. But still, if she told the story, and then after she told the story, she said, that was just a story about my son. You know, I just told you that just because that was the story. If I felt she didn't really believe it, that would have been helpful. But I, you know... Yes? Yeah? A story about death? A story about death? Yeah, I have a lot of stories about death. I have a lot of death stories, too. And I have a story about death in general, and I have a story about birth,

[10:49]

and I have a story about rebirth. So I'm sort of like... Buddhism has stories about rebirth, too, which are difficult for a lot of people in, for example, America, have trouble with stories about rebirth because a lot of us didn't grow up with stories about rebirth. So when we hear stories about rebirth, we have stories about no rebirth, or we have stories about being born in heaven, but not being born again in this world. So, but still, I kind of feel like listen to the stories of birth, listen to the stories of death, and understand them. And understand that Buddhism, the Buddha Dharma tells stories of death. I think other religious traditions tell stories of death. And some other religious traditions tell stories of birth, after death, birth in heaven. Buddhism also tells stories of after death, rebirth in heaven. But then it says after birth in heaven

[11:50]

then there's rebirth back into the normal world. But not everybody gets reborn in heaven. A lot of people, according to the Buddhist stories, after dying they get reborn just in the ordinary world. Like, one story would be, if you died this afternoon, you'd be reborn, there's a good chance that you'd be reborn here, in California, within 49 days. But you also could be born any place in the universe. That's a Buddhist story of rebirth. But the point is, the point I'm trying to make is, try to study that story, meditate on that story, and try to understand those stories of rebirth, to become free of them. Because the point of Buddhism is not to get reborn in this way or that way, it's to help beings, in whatever form of birth and death they're going through, to help beings become free of suffering.

[12:51]

As we rocket around the universe in various forms of existence, together, to promote freedom and peace is the agenda. And believing stories seems antithetical, at least ultimately antithetical to the realization of that. But in the short run, we have to believe stories, like you have to tell, you have children to have stories, and you have to support them in the short run, otherwise they can't function. You can't introduce skepticism and stuff like that to children too much, otherwise they have too much difficulty adjusting to school and things like that. So you have to tell them the story that things will not go well if they steal and lie and things like that. They need that story. And then gradually you can help them

[13:55]

see that that story is not the end of the story. Yes? I feel particularly interested in studying the stories where I feel separate from people. Yeah? And when I hear examples, stories of your grandson, sometimes I think of your other grandchildren and wonder if you don't spend as much time with those grandchildren and if that makes you feel more separate and if that is a reason that you don't hear the stories. The reason I'm asking about hearing stories about the other grandchildren is in the interest of studying the stories in which I feel separate from people. Sort of, yeah. So my question is, do you feel more separate with the other grandchildren or don't have as many instances?

[14:58]

I feel a little bit more separate from them and I feel that they feel a little more separate from me. Particularly the little girl, I don't think I've even registered on her screen yet. But I do have a really nice photograph of the little girl and the little boy and me sledding down the steepest hill in Minneapolis in the snow in December this year. But I don't think she really even notices me. The main people she notices, the main person she notices is her mother. That's the main person. And then her brother who is basically competing for her mother. She's like, I don't think she's even noticed me yet. But the little boy, he's registered that I'm his grandfather and that I love him and he loves me. But also, he's really into his mother so much that he doesn't really relate to me too much.

[16:00]

But he's also becoming a source of some stories and stories of him are starting to accumulate. But I don't feel, I don't have a story, I don't have as many stories about him, but I don't have a story that he's more separate from me. I don't have that story. But I have a feeling that we're not as intimately connected. But there's a lot of similarities between him and his cousin. And a lot of the similarities have something to do with me. A lot of people say, about both of them, and you know where he gets that. And I can kind of say, well, maybe so, yeah. So I do feel connected to both of them. But I feel more kind of like, what is it, physical pain being separated from the one who I saw born

[17:02]

than from the one who was born in Australia. The pain of being away from them varies slightly. But when I met the other grandson, when I met him, it was like, it was, you know, it was cheek to cheek. It was like, it was there, you know, it was like he saw me and I saw him. And it was like, it was just as much as with the other one when I first met. Actually, the other one when I first met, he didn't see me really at his birth. He was just basically red. Mr. Red. So when he was born, I didn't have much of a connection with him. When he was born, the main connection was between me and his mother. I had this really strong thing for his mother when he was born. To see my girl become a mother was like, for a father to see his daughter be a mother is really something. I mean, you know,

[18:04]

to see your wife have a baby, you see the baby, but then to see the baby become a mother, it's like for a man to see his daughter be a mother, it's like, it's almost like, it's almost like you're in on it. It's close, you feel kind of close to being a mother because it's my girl who's a mother. So that was great. But the little boy, people said, are you excited about your grandson? And I said, uh, no. And then they asked me later, are you excited about your grandson? Uh, no. And then, but around three months, it just hit like a truck. Just like, and then I've been kind of a goner ever since. And the other little boy also got hit when I first saw him. So there are conditions for feeling close or feeling separate, but I don't want to believe those either. Those are stories also.

[19:06]

But I'm studying that. Yeah. I love your stories about storytelling and we are the storyteller on the planet. The evolution of storytelling would involve the larynx and palate. Would you like to hear part of that story? I'd love to hear the story. This is a story on the larynx and the palate. Have you heard that one? At the time of Cro-Magnon, our direct ancestor, living side by side with Neanderthal, the palate part of the story concerns the broadening of the Cro-Magnon palate and our palate as well.

[20:10]

So that we can interact the teeth, the tongue, the palate with the larynx, which has actually come out of the chest cavity in the lower primates, the other primates. The larynx is very well protected, but it's down there in the chest cavity. So this was a very risky form of evolution where the larynx could come out and interact. That's the evolution of our storytelling. And I would love to see, maybe I'll go to your website, to see face and receive, the two Chinese symbols. Am I supposed to put that on the website? Yeah, let's do that. Let's put face receiving on the website. I just happen to have a piece of that calligraphy ready to go.

[21:10]

Yes. Which I'm going to give to the people in this intensive. For some of us who don't understand the transparency of stories, there's kind of a danger for nihilism of just saying everything is story. There's a danger of nihilism in saying everything is story? I'm not saying everything is story, I'm saying stories are just stories. Nothing is actually a story, even a story is not really a story. So I'm not saying everything is a story, I'm saying we have stories about many things, but our stories are not the thing. My story of you is not you, but you're not a story. That's one of my stories. But the way you are is not grasped by not a story either. You're beyond being a story, and you're beyond being not a story. What do I grasp?

[22:18]

Everything. The eastern mountain? Yes. Why is it eastern? It's not eastern versus western. It meets the water and then it moves over the water. What's the Buddhas? So you want to know what's the Buddhas and what else? You want to know about eastern mountains? And water. So the eastern mountains are moving and the eastern mountains by the way are not

[23:20]

opposed to western mountains. We could change the story very easily to western mountains move over the water. We could also change it to western mountains are dancing with eastern mountains. He had a purpose. He said what his purpose was. His purpose is to teach the Dharma. That's his purpose. His commitment anyway was whatever happened to teach the Dharma. So he was teaching people that day on where are the Buddhas born. So he thought he'd say it that way, that the eastern mountains move over the water. His intention was to help us be free of our stories by using

[24:21]

the imagery of mountains and water and saying that the way the mountains and the water interact is the way and the place that Buddhas are born. And when you say Buddhas, you refer to Buddhas a lot during your talk. Yes. What do you mean by Buddhas? I mean a compassion that's free of any ideas clinging, any clinging to ideas. So, for example, it would be a compassion which is free of any ideas of what is compassion. Some people have compassion but then they say and then they have the idea that that's not compassion and they cling to it. So then they feel compassion, they want to help people, but then they have some idea that's not compassion.

[25:23]

They see somebody else and they think, that person is not being compassionate, which is fine to think that, but they don't just think that, they believe that. And therefore, the Buddha is somehow not being realized. When the Buddha sees somebody, when compassion sees somebody and thinks, that person is not compassionate, they don't get stuck on that idea. The compassion is not hindered by thoughts like not compassionate or cruel or stupid or whatever. No matter what ideas appear, there's no clinging to them. All those ideas are just part of the compassion. So the compassion flows freely and that free-flowing, unobstructed, non-dual compassion, that is Buddha. That's what Buddha is. And there's innumerable occasions for the arising of this non-dual compassion. And each one of those arising is a Buddha. And then in addition,

[26:26]

this compassion wanting to help beings wake up, comes into the world and manifests in ways that people who have limited, who have compassion but it's somewhat hindered, so they can be taught. So then the Buddhas manifest in this world. And sometimes they manifest in a form that those people think is not compassion and then they convey to the person the non-attachment and the person loses their attachment to their idea of compassion and becomes a Buddha with them. According to some transmissions, Buddha said that all living beings fully possess the wisdom and virtues of a Buddha. That's what some transmissions say. But, because they're attached to their ideas,

[27:31]

they don't realize it. So Buddha sees you and us as fully possessing the Buddha, the virtues and wisdom of the Buddha. But Buddha also sees we're afflicted by attaching to misconceptions and so we don't realize it. So we're miserable Buddhas. Which is not exactly a regular Buddha. A regular Buddha is not a miserable Buddha. A conventional one? No, I'm not talking about that. Does it ring a bell?

[28:34]

It rings the bell as the way you think. This is called Jackie thinks that way bell. Did you want to ring some other bell? Like correct answer bell? Or agreeing with Buddha bell? What bell do you want to ring? I don't know what you did. Do you know what you did? Yeah? Our emotions are what? Emotions are vehicles of delusion

[29:40]

and emotions are vehicles of enlightenment. The mountain is an emotion. You're stuck in the mountains at some altitude. You don't go down to the toes. You think I'm just going to be in this part of the mountain rather than thoroughly study this mountain. Then you're just part of the mountain. But if you study this emotion which is an example of a mountain. If you study this emotion way down to the toes, you'll notice that this emotion is splashing around in the water. And you'll see a Buddha born at the place where the emotion interacts with the water and starts dancing. And then you realize, oh, it's an emotion but this is like a liberation motion. Before we fully engage with

[30:41]

and thoroughly understand our emotions, we're usually somewhat caught by them. But when you fully engage with them then they're the way, they're the mountain part of the interaction where the enlightenment is born. So everything's an opportunity to get stuck or to be liberated. So everything's a possible turning point or crisis opportunity. We're surrounded by dangers that won't be thorough in our practice and get in trouble and hurt ourselves and others. There's a danger all the time of inconclusive, half-hearted engagement with our life. But there's also the possibility that whatever's happening can be an opportunity to realize compassion and freedom. No. It's the thoroughness of the practice with it. So when we don't fully engage with our life, we get stuck. And so we have emotions, we have ideas, we have stories. We have stories, and then because we have stories

[31:43]

we have emotions. But everything's an equal opportunity employer. And sometimes we don't fully accept our jobs. then there's usually a story of not being very happy arising with that. And not only that, but it's somebody else's fault. Yes? So decisions are scary for me. Yes? And that's because I can tell a story either way. And even after I make the decision, I can tell a story either way. So I have a hard time telling a story that ends up in the right decision. So I'm very interested in intuition because it doesn't seem to be a storytelling part of me. For instance, I drove down the road this morning to come here and the sign said closed for retreat. So I said, darn, and I didn't pull it

[32:44]

and I kept going. You kept going? Where'd you go to? I went down to Deer Beach. Oh, how was it down there? It was nice. But as I drove by, I felt that. Like, this is the wrong. This felt wrong. I don't know how to describe it, but my body felt uncomfortable going towards Deer Beach and not turning in. And so when I got to Deer Beach, I was going to walk up the hill, but I felt more comfortable walking towards Greenbelt even though it was closed. And I wasn't supposed to be. And I got to the gate and the gate said closed for retreat. To remind me. But there was a little yellow square in the corner of the sign that caught my attention. And I looked down at the little yellow square and it said, except. Well, that's why not too many people came to the talk today. They're all down at Muir Beach enjoying the sunshine.

[33:45]

So I have a story about intuition. And I'm just wondering. I'm fascinated by it. And it doesn't seem to have a story. I have a story about it, but it doesn't seem to have a story. It just is. Something about that discomfort going by instead of coming down. And I wanted to be there. And that comfort walking towards here when my mind said I shouldn't because it's closed. And I'm wondering if life, if there's something about whatever I call intuition that is life without a story. Well, it's not so much life without a story, but life without believing the story you have about life. So like, you know something, but you don't really know how you know it. But you know it. And you know things because the universe makes you into a knowing being. But most of us can't go too long on just that. We have to make a story about

[34:50]

how we're knowing. So if somebody comes up to you, you have a story at hand so you can interact with them. But if you had a story about coming to Green Gulch or going to Mirror Beach or coming back or feeling bad, if you had a story and you didn't believe it, then you'd be sort of living in your intuition. You weren't caught by it. So it's not so much that intuition is knocked away by having stories, intuition is knocked away when we hold to our story about what we know as being how we know. Or we hold to our story about what we know as what we know. So stories about how we know and stories about what we know, stories about how we're born and how we die they aren't really,

[35:53]

they never really reach how we know, what we know, how we're born and how we die. And when we can live with what we know free of our ideas, then our compassion will be unobstructed. But we need somehow, we need a transmission of that. We can't find it in the midst of all of our stories, we can't find a place of no stories without somebody guiding us. So we need actually to meet the Buddha in the world who's teaching that to us. And that's, again, a story I'm telling you and how to open to that without clinging to that is another kind of mystery of practice. And I don't particularly wish to get into a story about

[36:53]

who you're interacting with on your trip here today. I don't know how exactly I could make up a story, you know, that Buddha guided you here. And Buddha shows you a way to be free of some of your stories and find the little yellow square. Yeah. How do you avoid? Well, it sounds not too good so far. Yeah. Yeah, I'm into that. Cognitive therapy. We're not saying that.

[38:01]

I'm not saying everything's a story. I'm not saying that. Matter of fact, I'm saying really nothing is a story. Even a story is not a story. Our perceptions of what's happening are mixed with stories. So what's happening or the way things actually are is not stories. But we have stories about almost everything that happens. But sometimes we're just too busy to have stories about some things. And some things get by without us having time to slap a story on them. And if we can't put a story on them, then we can't talk to people about them. So there's some stuff that's happening in our life which is kind of like, it's gone, you know. Before you have a chance to make a story and tell people and sell a few copies of your memoirs. None of the things that are happening

[39:03]

are stories. Everything's beyond story. And that's a story too. But nothing is a story. So even stories aren't really stories. The statement that a story is a story doesn't really reach the story either. But we need stories in order to function, so we have them. The question is how to understand them. Not how to avoid stories and not even how to avoid attachment to stories but how to learn from stories and attachment to stories. And to hear stories which are about the way things really are but the stories aren't the way things really are. To hear the stories which are instructing us how to not be caught by stories while we continue to use stories so we can interact with people. So Buddhas use stories, they tell stories. Shakyamuni Buddha told lots of stories and he also told people these stories are not actually what's happening I'm just doing this to help you become free. And he was pretty successful telling people stories

[40:05]

and at the end of the stories people woke up and saw that there is a world there is a life called peace and freedom Nirvana which is beyond our stories a birth and death. And Buddha used stories and other kinds of interactions with people to initiate them into a vision and an experience of what's beyond stories. Which is basically everything is beyond stories. And what's happening in this world allows human beings to arise with storytelling abilities and we can use these abilities to become free of our attachment to stories. But we can also just become attached to our stories and suffer which is one of the stories about our unhappiness is that we have a story that not everybody is being supportive of us and so on and we don't want to help everybody else

[41:06]

and we basically don't like these people because they are not behaving the way we want them to. We have stories like that and we don't get the joke. We're like, this is not funny this story I have and I'm not going to let go of that it's not funny. I know it's not that good for me to hold on to that story but I like at least I've got something to hold on to. If you let go of the story that people aren't behaving very well what have you got? Well I'll let go of the story that they're not behaving well if I can trade it on that they are behaving well but I'm not just going to let go of it. And that's why you need help. That's why you need a meeting with somebody to help you let go of your story. Somebody who is like into the process with you of letting go of their story with your story, with our stories. Yes, you need to let go of the positive. What? Not no stories,

[42:08]

no stories clung to. No images, no concepts clung to. So you have compassion. You do want yourself and others to be happy and free. But if you hold on to any stories, if you cling to any ideas, stories don't really what we mean by stories doesn't make much sense without some concept. Some language. The larynx interacting with the palate. This thing has, this physical thing has to happen and there has to be words and then we have a story. We have these stories. Now if we understand the stories we will evolve into what we want to be and what we want to be is something that's beyond any of our stories. Just like, in other words we want to be who we are. What we are is beyond anybody's story of us. What I am, what you are is beyond my stories

[43:09]

and your stories. I want to become that person who is beyond all stories. Like they say, the true person of no rank. The true person is beyond any story. I want to become that person because that's the person I already am. But... And that's a story that it's possible. It's possible to be a Buddha. And what a Buddha is, it's somebody who feels love for all beings and doesn't think they're separate from her and doesn't fall for any stories. And beings, stories are beings. Beings are stories. But stories never reach any being. And some people have taught us that and they're called the Buddhas. And we need to interact with this understanding of stories. And it's proposed to be possible.

[44:13]

That's another one of the stories. And the stories about people getting this, understanding this. And the first one in this historical period is called the Shakyamuni Buddha. The first one in this tradition. But he doesn't say he's the first one or the only one. He's the first historical one who stood up there and spoke to people in India. And he said there's a lot of other Buddhas right now all over the universe doing the same teaching. And there's a lot of Buddhas before me and there will be Buddhas in the future. And the Buddha in the future in this world is Maitreya Bodhisattva who's alive right now and doing his or her thing right now. And we're going to have another Buddha when this Buddha's teachings disappear. That's what that Buddha said. That's a story. Listen to it. Understand it. Don't cling to it. And more stories are probably going to come from you and from me and from other people. The story production is going to continue.

[45:16]

We can't stop it. But we can understand it, I think, I hope, and I believe. Is compassion a state of being that arises from continuous attention to the uninterrupted mind? Is compassion a state of awareness? That arises from continuous attention to the uninterrupted mind? Continuous attention to uninterrupted mind is a form of compassion. It's a form of mental training which is a compassionate way of it's an expression of compassion. Continuous attention to the uninterrupted mind is an expression of compassion. And it is compassion and it gives rise to a state of consciousness called tranquility which will be a good

[46:17]

state to practice compassion. Now, before arriving at that state of tranquility, the yogi was also practicing compassion but under more difficult circumstances because they were unstable and stressed. But when you're unstable and stressed you continuously attend to the uninterrupted mind you will be able to then do other kinds of compassionate acts which will be easier for you than they were when you weren't stable and tranquil. A minute ago you said being engaged and then thoroughly understanding and then I'm not sure if you said attached but I wanted to know if that was a way of talking about the conventional

[47:18]

the attached part and the thoroughly established being engaged No, no, no. The engaged part being the other dependent. You know, I think that this kind of technical language of the other dependent and the thoroughly established you have to not we can't talk about that right now because not everybody here is initiated into the esoteric teaching of the three characteristics of all phenomena which Bodhisattvas are wise about. So we can't really talk about that right now. It's not, it's kind of like it doesn't include other people. So can we just talk about that some other time when the other people who are around are ready for that discussion? Is that okay? Really? Really? We can do that. They understand that. The vocabulary has not

[48:22]

been prepared for that conversation. Yes? I heard you used the word non-dual. Non-dual, yeah. Well, non-dual means, for example, that I don't I don't think that my awareness of you and you are two separate, you know, beings. Duality means you think there's like two actual things that are not connected, that are not really part of one being. So a non-dual awareness would be where I understand that what is appearing to me is of the same being as my awareness. Oneness, yeah, or interdependence. And the actual interdependence of things leads to the teaching that

[49:23]

awareness and objects of awareness are arising from the same source, that they're really not separate, they're not substantially separate in being. So understanding that is understanding non-duality. And understanding that is realizing non-duality. So we... The teaching is that we are actually non-dual, but we don't realize that. So we have instruction and transmission of teaching so we can realize that, even though it's already the way it is. We have stories that were separate. And we have stories that what we're aware of in our awareness are separate. So we need to kind of get over those stories and we need a lot of instruction and meditation on the instruction to get over it. And we also need quite a bit of hassle to encourage us to do the meditation because if we're not hassled, we might as well just continue with our present delusion because it's so easy. You're just operating

[50:24]

to sit back and enjoy the show. But it's not enjoyable sometimes. So is there some show that's always enjoyable? Yes, we have one like that. It's called non-dual compassion. It's a stable enjoyment. Yeah. It's not the same as you, no. It's just that they're not two different beings. Me and your awareness of me are not like two separate beings. We're born together. For example, the picture of you is not separate from your awareness of the picture. But it seems like it is. That's the way it appears to people is that they have a picture of somebody and they think the picture is separate

[51:25]

from the awareness. But of course it's not. It's the mind arising in such a way that it sees itself as separate from itself. And so people walk around seeing themselves as separate from themselves. They see themselves as the mountains. They see themselves as the rivers. They see themselves as the stars. They see themselves as other people. They see themselves as grandchildren. They see themselves that way. That's the way you see yourself. Now, if you have a mirror, then you can see yourself in the mirror. But ordinarily, the way I see myself is like my hands and you. That's the way I see myself. But I think that what I'm seeing is separate from my seeing. Which is incorrect. It's not separate. But it's not the same either. Not the same. Because, for example,

[52:27]

the mountains aren't aware of me seeing them the way I'm seeing them. However, my ability to see them is because they're seeing me in their own way. The mountains are looking back at me, but not the same way that I'm looking at the mountains. So we're different, but not separate. We're different, but not separate. I missed your stories this morning. Pardon? I missed your stories. Can you tell me this short one? A short story? My grandson moved to L.A. and he's now living in North Hollywood. Did I tell that story this morning? That's one of the stories I told. I didn't exactly say that he's far away,

[53:29]

but you could figure that out. I could have said that too. And L.A. is far away. I could have had that story too. You bet I miss him. Your bet is correct. I miss him. But I enjoy the pain of separation. It's such a delicious pain. I like the pain of missing people. I don't like the pain of being glad that they're gone. Oh, that's great. Of course, I'm happy that they're gone, but I feel bad that I'm happy that they're gone. I'm really happy that they're gone, but I don't feel good that I'm happy that they're gone. With my grandson, I'm just in pain that he's gone. And it's such a nice pain. It's a unique grandson pain. It gets me in a certain way that I haven't yet experienced with granddaughters. Well, unfortunately,

[54:37]

he's not here to tell you. I think that would be really delightful if he would manifest here and give a little talk. He might say something about that. He did say something, which I hate to say this to you. I really hate to say this. But I went to L.A. to visit and I went with my wife, who is his grandmother. And somebody said to the little guy, Are you glad to see your grandmother and grandfather? And he said, Yeah, grandfather, granddaddy, definitely. I hate to tell you that. But if you had him here now and you say what it's like living in L.A., he might have something to say. Or he might say, I don't want to talk to you people. He's capable of saying things like that. Well, you want to hear about that, huh?

[55:50]

What is it? It's like there's only one feeling like that in the whole universe. The feeling of missing that person at a particular moment. It's so particular and so unique and its own richness. It's so deep that it's this feeling and not another one. It's just life, you know. It's life. It hurts, but it's so delicious to have that very completely unique feeling of missing at a particular time in a particular part of the body. And to feel the fullness of its uniqueness is really just wonderful. There's nothing like it. And then that's gone and there's nothing like the next rendition. And to have experiences like that is like...

[57:02]

Especially with no stories around them. Or no attachment to stories. It's just like this is sort of like... What do you call it? It makes it all worthwhile. Life makes the trouble worthwhile to have some experiences like that. And if there's a lot of pain or a little pain associated with it, do you want to have it or not? Yes! You can pass on this one. No, I'll take it. I'll be alive. Yes. Is this menju? Menju, yes. Menju? Yes, menju. Face receiving. In our world of technology, and telephones and e-mails, this word seems like a foreigner. Can you comment on that

[58:04]

and the quality of our lives? Well, I'll make a short comment. And that is that menju, face-to-face transmission, in a sense is a very ancient way of people being together. It comes from the time when we have... Even today, the few indigenous cultures that we still have, they still live on and maintain themselves very clearly by menju, by face-to-face oral transmission. And Zen, the Buddha Dharma, and particularly Zen, originally Buddha very much emphasized this face-to-face transmission. All of the enlightenment stories are Buddha talking to somebody, face-to-face. And then later in the tradition of the Buddha Dharma, you don't hear about it so much. They were doing various other interesting things they were talking about. In the Zen school, this face-to-face thing was reactivated and re-emphasized.

[59:04]

So in Zen, Zen is saying, our tradition is an oral tradition. And they're also saying that Shakyamuni Buddha was an oral transmitter. So from 2,500 years ago and like 1,500 years ago and 1,100 years ago and 800 years ago, Zen has been maintaining a face-to-face oral transmission. And now is this technological world where oral transmission seems to be like, where is it? We have a few little Zen centers where the oral transmission is continuing. And so it's like we're on the verge of having oral transmission totally annihilated by the force of our technological life where people think telling stories and telling stories about not believing stories and doing it face-to-face is like, what? What's that? Not to mention that

[60:07]

if you ever were interested and then you would go into a room to do this menju, your heart would beat so that you could hardly speak. So people, it's kind of frightening to come away from your computer and go in a room and meet somebody face-to-face. So it's not a real popular thing to do unless you think you're going to get a lot of money for it or something. Which is why I do it. So the oral culture, oral cultures are really in danger now. And Zen is an oral culture and it's in danger of being snuffed out in the face of technological involvement. I remember when I was in college, when I was in graduate school

[61:07]

at the University of Minnesota, I supported myself by doing computer programming for the psychology department where I was a graduate student. And I went into the computer room to submit my program to test it out and I was looking for the, what do you call it, the operator of the computer. I was a programmer but I didn't know how to operate the computer. So I went looking for the operator and I couldn't see him and I went back sort of in some back area and I found the operator and I went up to him and when he saw me he was terrified to see a person face-to-face, you know. Because he's like him and he wasn't aware, he wasn't into face-to-face transmission. If you're into face-to-face transmission then almost anybody can come up to you and you can say, oh you too, huh? You're here too. Oh, another one, another one, another one. But if you don't have any faces out there and a face shows up it's like a big shock. So face-to-face transmission

[62:09]

is in danger right now of being annihilated. Well not annihilated but going into a phase of extinction. And that probably will happen someday that the Buddhist tradition which is oral transmission, a face-to-face transmission will disappear in this world. That probably will happen because even this face-to-face transmission is impermanent. However, the story is that it will re-emerge again in another world and it will flourish again. So now we're just like taking care of it until it gets blown out of the water and it's, you know, compared to the strength of it in the past maybe it's really a lot weaker because of the technological environment we live in where people can actually like not be with people for a long time. And it didn't used to be like that. People who weren't with people were like really scared.

[63:10]

You know. We grew up being together and if you wanted to hurt somebody just push them out of the group. That was enough for them to be like really scared. That's a way to discipline people. Just push them outside the group for a while and they'll get really scared. Horses do that too, I understand. Horse packs or horse herds are matriarchal. A female runs the herd and the way they discipline the teenagers of course little colts can be very naughty and they're not going to push them out of the group. But as they get more mature, adolescent, if they don't cooperate with the situation they push the adolescents out where the wolves can get them. And after they're out there for a while they come back usually and say, okay, okay, okay. And we're that way too. We really are outgrowths of communal life.

[64:14]

And now we can be in a strange situation of being all by ourselves and think that face-to-face transmission and oral transmission and oral culture isn't necessary or even just weird and old-fashioned or whatever. That doesn't mean oral transmission is easy or not scary and not dangerous. It just means it's where spiritual life in Zen anyway lives. Maybe we need a new religion where people are getting somehow getting spiritual advice without face-to-face transmission. But what comes to mind is they have these huge assemblies with thousands of people in the room and now they have these big screens behind the preacher so everybody can see the preacher's face from various angles. So maybe face-to-face transmission will find a way in technology to survive. Because it's okay if it's on a screen as long as you're scared. As long as when you go down there

[65:16]

to the screen you put the screen on and there's the Buddha and you feel your heart beating and like, oh wow, the cares that hung around all week seem to vanish like a gambler's lucky streak. I'm in Menju. Maybe it can happen with computer screens. I don't know. Are people trying that? Probably. Yeah? I've been able to send e-mails and have contact with you by e-mail, for example. We have a nun's sister in Ireland who's been regularly by my computer has enabled me to maintain community in other nuns. It doesn't sound like devil's advocate, it sounds like Buddha's advocate. No. But it has its pros and cons.

[66:16]

And also to be able to download your Dharma books and cycle around town in Stockholm listening to your Dharma. Does your heart beat when you're doing that? Sometimes, yes. And you can hardly speak? Does it get to that point? Yes, sometimes. Are you in Menju at that time? What? Yes. Okay. So she survived. She survived the technology. The Dharma is coming through after all. If it can happen, great. But there's a danger. Be careful. When you're playing with your computer toys, be careful that you're staying in touch with contact with that compassion that's free of any ideas. Make sure you're in touch with that when you start your computer. I think people probably have lots of signs on their computers that say stay in touch with non-dual compassion

[67:17]

when you start this thing. Maybe in a little yellow little box. Don't start this computer until you enter into meditation on non-dual compassion. Okay. I won't. There's a Zen story about that. A Zen master gets up in the morning and he goes to brush his teeth. He looks in the mirror and he says, Master! And then he says, Yes! Are you awake? Yes! All day long, don't let anything distract you from this. I won't. That's a true story. Can you believe that story? Don't attach to it though. But even though you don't attach to it, you can act it out. You can do that when you brush your teeth. You can have a conversation with your teacher

[68:18]

every morning while you're brushing your teeth. I think it's time to have lunch now. Green Gulch has allowed us to have this long meeting. Thank you for coming. Even breaking through the closed sign and coming in here. It's really great. Thank you.

[68:44]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ