Good morning. Well, I've had a knee injury. I've had a knee problem all week, but it seems to be getting better. Today, I want to I have chanting practice, and I'm going to hand out a sheet that tells us how to pronounce the Japanese syllables when we're chanting. I do this about once every 10 years. And I think it's very helpful for us to understand this. Today we probably have the fewest people.

[01:02]

Tomorrow will be more. But I chose today to do this for various reasons. So, these are the chanting cards. And we'll hand them out. And you can follow along. It's important to have the cards because as reference. Oh John, before you sit down, can you give me a chanting book? Just a regular, just a regular chanting book. The other one would be good.

[02:05]

OK. John. Yeah. I have one. Yeah. You can sit down. Should we pass out the books for everybody here? No. Well. Yeah. OK. Yes. OK, so I'm going to read from the top. It says, these guidelines were designed primarily to help create the rhythm when chanting without the accompaniment of the mokugyo, such as the meal chants, the Sando Kai, and the names of the patriarchs. They do not necessarily apply for conversational Japanese in chanting with the mokugyo.

[03:05]

Do you have any questions about that? What is the opium? The drum. The fish. We make the fish speak. So, each syllable gets one beat. Generally, a syllable is a consonant followed by a vowel, like Ka, ki, ku, ka, ko, na, ni, na, no, pa, pi. OK? Any question about that? Yes? You're saying ne with a shu, not ne. Well, it could be ne or ne. Na, actually. When there are two or more vowels together, each receives one beat.

[04:27]

Like each vowel receives one beat, like a vowel by itself receives one beat. like in a DAI, which is DAI, DAI. So when the vowel by itself receives one beat, each one is DAI, DA plus I, DAI. And UOI. U, RU, O, I is four beats. Because there are three, four vowels actually. U, RU, O, I. Each one gets its own beat. And O, I, TE is three beats. So each one, if we remember that each one of the vowels gets one beat, when we come to a word, we will be able to, when you become familiar with it,

[05:36]

you'll be able to pronounce those vowels each with one beat. So, when N or M is attached to the end of a syllable, or added to a single vowel, it receives one beat. Like, Ninh-con. Ninh-con. Four beats. Ninh-con. 1, 2, 3, 4, NIN KAN, NIN KAN NI ATATE, NIN KAN NI ATATE, MIRU KOTO SO URU I KOTO NAKARE. That's Sandokai. properly, then it's enjoyable.

[06:40]

Just like Oreoke. When you can make all the movements flow into each other, then Oreoke is the most interesting way to eat. It's the nicest way to eat. But otherwise it becomes this kind of chore. What's next, you know? But it's hard to teach orioke correctly, because if you do it every day, then... It's good to do it during shishin, actually, to teach it during shishin, orioke, but we have different kinds of oriokes. Priest orioke is a little more complex, and then the regular orioke is a little simpler, and the guest eating bowls is even a little simpler. So it's hard to teach. I used to try to do that. And sometimes it works for some people and sometimes it mostly doesn't.

[07:45]

But you get the gist, you know. But it would be nice to actually, if everybody really understood the sequence of taking apart and putting together the oriochi. Anyway. So, nen kan ni yatate. And so, honmatsu. Well, let's go to the second one. Nanboku. Nanboku. Nanboku. And then the third one. Honmatsu. Honmatsu. And then, yeah. And then, ani. Ani. On me. On one, two, three, because you have an on and two ends together means to be two ends together.

[08:48]

This is like a triplet on me. So, yeah, let's go to triple. Whenever I start chanting and when we get to the chanting part, it'll become clear. So all vowels with long marks get to be. So this is the way the chanting card is arranged. to give us the sense of the long beats. So when you have that long mark, it's two beats. To zai i, to zai i, to zai i, and jo shu. And then when a consonant is doubled, like two Ts or two Ns, the first consonant is pronounced with the preceding syllable and given an extra beat.

[10:13]

The second consonant pocket. You don't actually say, An-na-ni, you see, or like A-ta-te, you just get A-ta-te, [...] A-ta-te. Some people say, like, Yo-te, or A-ta-te. So let's look at the Buddhas and ancestors. There's one thing that is not on here that I think is almost the most important one.

[11:31]

It's the pronunciation of O-N. And that's O-N is pronounced on, not on. Well, that's a good point, yeah. A-N is pronounced on. And O-N is pronounced on. Yes, like ko-on-a-jo, da-yo-sho. We always say ko-on-a-jo, da-yo-sho. Go on. It's cool. If we actually look at the letters when we read them and pronounce always. Oh, it is. I just come out. Right. Because I was always. Oh, for example, the moon is moving forward. That's right. It is a new moon. Yes. It's not new. I pronounce it. Yes. But it's really moving on time. Vipashibutsudayo sho.

[12:40]

Vipashibutsudayo sho. Shikibutsudayo sho. Vishakubutsudayo sho. Purusom. Purusom. Vitsudayo sho. Purusom. And the S-O-N, right, is Purusom. That's for Vita. Kuru-son butsu daiyo-sho. Kuna-gon muni butsu daiyo-sho. Ka-sho butsu daiyo-sho. Sha-ka muni butsu daiyo-sho. Ma-ka-ka-sho daiyo-sho. An-nan-da daiyo-sho. Sho-na-wa-shu daiyo-sho. That's a great word. It really swings if we do it right.

[13:41]

Thay Thay Osho Buddhamita Thay Osho Bhagavad Gita Thay Osho Full Night Asha Thay Osho Anabodhi Dayosho, Kapimala Dayosho, Madhya Arjuna Dayosho, Kamadaira Dayosho, Raghuratha Dayosho, Surya Nandhari Dayosho, Sogyalandai Daiyoshokumarata Daiyoshokumarata Daiyoshokumarata Ashi-bansu daiyosho, Mano-ra daiyosho, Kakudogu-na daiyosho, Shishi-botai daiyosho, Basha-shita daiyosho, Fuyomi-ta daiyosho, Hanga-tara daiyosho, Botai-aruma daiyosho,

[15:37]

I'll just come back in a minute. So, in that daido-shin, the I, gets its own beat. have to die, die in dog-shin, die. This is something happening. Say it again.

[16:44]

Say it again. Sengen Joshi Daiyosho, Sekito Kisen Daiyosho, Yakusami Gen Daiyosho, Unvan Dojo Daiyosho, Tozan Ryokai Daiyosho, Unmo-to-do-da-yo-sho, Do-an-do-hi-da-yo-sho, Do-an-kan-shi-da-yo-sho, Ro-zan-en-kan-da-yo-sho, Tai-do-kyo-gen-da-yo-sho, So, Jin, when there's two vowels with the mark over both vowels, is that a sound together?

[17:50]

Yeah, I think so. No, it's not. It's two beats, but the vowels are said together. Yes, the vowels, each one. They're not A, E, G, S, A, [...] G, S, A You don't want to sit here. Each of us gets one beat. Each of us. And we have to write these four beats. How many beats are to the key? I was one line. Two. Two. Do you remember that there's other reasons why you're doing two beats?

[19:15]

Yes. So that's to join the two beats with a pair. Two beats, yeah. That's right. Those who dissay they are sure, who know the kind they are sure. Time passes soon, they are sure. Chosen you, they are sure. TENGO SOKAKU TAIYO SHO, SESHO CHIKANDAIYO SHO, TENGYO MYOKYO TAIYO SHO, EIHEI GONGEN TAIYO SHO, Can we go back to Dogen? Yes. So, is it A, E, Well, it's two beats.

[20:30]

It's a hey, hey. But they're two beats, but they're put together. So can you say that? Hey, hey. Hey, hey. One, two, three, four. Hey, hey. Do again. Is it hey or is it hey? It's hey, hey. I'm hearing that the I pronounced. Are we supposed to be pronouncing the I's? So hey, hey. E-I is hey. Hey, hey. And it gets two beats. It gets to be actually enunciated as separate. Each of each of the vowels gets a beat, but they're contracted together. Yeah. They're contracted together. So can we develop a rule about that? So when you have E and I, they're sort of put together. Yeah. Whereas other balls, we seem to be enunciating them separately. Yeah. Well, it's kind of intuitive. Because he and I don't separate. They did this.

[21:33]

The strong pronunciations and they say, hey, [...] hey. That's right. I like dying. Well, it depends on where it depends on the word. Then if it's possible, then is it? I, I, I. But you don't pronounce them. You don't separate them. It's one blends into the other. I, [...] I. But we do say dai-i-o-sho. Dai-i-o-sho. [...]

[22:34]

Dai-i-o-sho. Dai-i-o-sho. Four beats. Dai. He doesn't say da-ee-oh-sho. He says dai-ee-oh-sho. Dai-ee. You contract the A and the I, but it's two beats. OK. This slide, it was dai-kahn. Dai-kahn. Dai-kahn. Dai-kahn. Dai-ee-kahn. Dai-kahn. Just like the vegetable. Dai-kahn. Dai-kahn. Daikon. But we say daikon. Daikon. [...]

[23:35]

Daikon. [...] Da We didn't. But there are some, actually. The Chinese ones. Yeah, so the Chinese... And the Japanese, I guess. Yeah, but it's all in Japanese. Yeah, they're in Chinese. That's right. The Chinese pronunciation, so... At least Taishan should be important. Huh? She's saying Taishan. Thank you. That should be for the end of the end of the end to go. It's a Chinese. They're all just. No, they're not Chinese. Are these Japanese Chinese?

[24:36]

So the male ancestors are Japan are Japanese. Indian ancestors are in Pali, Chinese ancestors are in Japanese, and Japanese ancestors are in Japanese. Yeah. But I think still, the two vowels together would still get two beats, wouldn't it? Either Chinese or Japanese. I don't think that's been worked out. But now that we've learned this rule, we haven't. But now that we know this rule about the two vowels, and the N at the end gets a beat, we can apply that fashion. But that's not the case. No, we haven't. Somehow. Well, we don't chant in the same kind of rhythm for the female ancestors. Another thing I want to bring up.

[25:36]

Would you mind if I brought one other tiny little point? Yeah. If you if we could get out of the habit of trying to sneak a breath. after the Dayo show, before the next name, that actually takes up a beat. Yes. And that actually loses the energy. So if you could just, you can either do it on the show, like take a breath, Dayo, da da da, or I don't know how you want to take a breath, but I've noticed that some people, Tozan Ryokai Dayo show, do yo, do yo, Dayo show, do yo, do yo, do yo. Yes, yeah. Well, I... It's quite taking the breath there. I take it anywhere else. I explain this to people about once every three months. Please do again. That's the case. Don't take a breath after the daiyo-sho, but start the next name, so that the continuity continues without making a gap. So, bi-bashi-butsu-daiyo-sho, shiki-butsu-daiyo-sho, bi-shafu-butsu-daiyo-sho, kuru-san-butsu-daiyo-sho, someplace else than the end.

[26:41]

couldn't get this jerky feeling, and especially with the women ancestors. Today it was Great Teacher Mahapajapati Gautami, Great Teacher Damodina, Great Teacher Thema. Also sometimes people take a long time between Great Teacher and a name. No, because they're figuring it out. Great Teacher Mahapajapati Gautami, Great Teacher Damodina, Great Teacher, so we don't Yeah. Don't need to make that pause after each each name. Just like there's no pause between Japanese names and value. So. Right. I'm thinking about the fact that when the Japanese sends any adapted the Chinese pronunciation, they didn't really worry whether they were doing proper Chinese pronunciation. They just just panized it. And then. Now we have such a mixture of languages.

[27:45]

We just really admit that we're going to be Americanizing it or Englishizing it. We know. I think we're trying to pronounce it since we can at all time. I think we wanted to be heavy standard. And so I think. I'd much rather... I don't like the way the Japanese did with the Chinese, particularly. I'd rather do something nicer with the Japanese than they did with the Chinese. To actually see if we can... just to pronounce the words correctly so that it flows. Otherwise, it doesn't flow. So it's actually introducing a different rhythm than what we are used to. It's a beautiful rhythm, but it's more complicated. Well, yes, once you learn it, it's simple, but it's more complicated.

[28:47]

Yeah. As I understand it, when we were working on when people were working on the women ancestors, the idea was these teachers were called by a certain name in their language. And so we wanted to honor them by calling them by their name in the way it was spoken to the best of our ability in their language. That's what argues for trying to learn the pronunciation in the language. I'm just looking at some of the women ancestors. We don't have the diacritical marks, but there are some where it's really obvious that we're not chanting them as we would in Japanese. For example, It's obvious. Any of the ones that have a lot of vowels in the center. That would have three beats to it. So there are a number of them. We don't have to bag critical marks.

[29:49]

We might want to go over it. But you know, like miyaw, zong, miyaw, shin, bugai, yodai. It would be good to have the critical marks. That's something that should be put in there for pronunciation. A couple of people who are practiced in doing the rhythm could do it as a demonstration. So you get the hearing it, I think, would be nice to get. Yes. But I think that's a good idea. The day you seem to run doesn't have the critical marks.

[30:53]

Yes, because it could use. But you may, we're so used to it, we almost don't notice that if you pay attention, there are a few things that are two syllables, and they're written like one or vice versa. But the same thing does apply on that pronouncing the N on the N, that kind of thing. But for example, in Durrani, there's Yeah.

[32:11]

Yeah. And so that's why it's written that way, even though it's two syllables. Namu. Namu is going to be namukara, no. So that's why they're written that way, and it doesn't, so it can be a little confusing. Shifu. Shifu. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It would be wonderful to chant the song of that Japanese to get some sense of the rhythm. I was just seeing the chat. But I just have to send it as far as you can. That's really hard to do just to visit people. We never got it. Everybody does it now.

[33:17]

I don't think we have it on the computer files, but there is a paper. I don't think the diations are on it. Namu karatanno torayaya namu uriya puryoki puryoki chi shiko raya. Yeah. Yeah. Guchisato purya. Satapoyamukha, Satapoyamukha, Khyarunikaya, Entsa, Haeshu, Tanna, Tonsha, Namo, Shikiri, Toi, Moriya, Boyo, Kichi, Shikorare, Dobo, Namo, Namo, Munora, Kinjiki, Rimoko,

[34:40]

Back here behind the post, waving it. As we talk about this more and more, The rules of pronunciation get more complex and we apply them to more and more of what we're doing. The concern arises for me that this becomes more kind of difficult, daunting for newcomers. And while it's true that after they hear it for a while, one catches on. It concerns me, you know, I have this concern coming up, that it becomes more difficult to catch on to. Well, the rules don't get more and more complex. There's just these five rules and they're very simple. Actually, basically, there are these six rules. And I don't think they're that difficult.

[36:15]

We all learned them before. We've been learning for the last 50 years. I'm thinking of someone who comes in for the first time who speaks American English and isn't familiar. That was me. Yeah. 43 years ago. Not a big deal. Just how that is. It was not a big deal. Well, I think it's a deal because for some reason, I mean, I've noticed Frequently, the newcomers, even with what we're doing now, they have a very hard time with it. I don't know why that is. Maybe I don't know why. Maybe there was more dedication or there was more consistent attendance in the good old days. But I'll tell you what would be good. I don't want to talk about the old days, but if if we paid, if we if new people came, we had taught them how to do things. We always expect people to carry, to catch on, to follow along and catch on.

[37:23]

That's always been our expectation, is that a new person would come in, come in the back, listen, participate, and ask questions, and so forth. But we could teach people, new people how to chant, as well as old people. about the concept of value. And suddenly you're introducing. Be sure that you hold the second syllable. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying is that if you had a little class for those people and you just taught them how to do it, I think they appreciate it. Yeah, I was thinking, you know how you do Zazen instruction on Fridays every once in a while in the afternoon? Maybe something like that could be dedicated to chanting practice for everybody. Because I think once you're in the service and you're doing the chant, and I'll speak for myself, that it's hard sometimes for me to remember all of it.

[38:28]

But we just need lots of practice and reminders of how it sounded like we've been doing lately, this practice period. So, there are all kinds of reasons why it's not a good idea, but I still think that we've all done it, and we're still here. Yeah, I think for me one of the issues isn't so much for the newcomers, because newcomers will imitate what they hear. That's right. It's really for us. We learn these odd Japanese names and sounds anyway, but it's that a lot of our Kokyos don't know how to do this, and so when they leave the chant, And then we're pretty good about bringing people into being Kokyo relatively early on in their time here, but we don't actually train them properly in this. I don't think. So if we spent more time making sure all of us who lead the chants and have been around for a while know how to do it, newcomers would naturally find a way to do it. Well, I think if everybody, if all the regular people learn to chant it well,

[39:32]

That would happen in people's belief, but they just hear it, that's all. And that's when they would express it. When we ran through the Buddhists and Ancestors, we did it at a glacial pace to get the right intonation and diacritical marks. Would it be okay if we went through maybe 12 of them at the pace you would like, trying to do this in forms of... Yeah, it doesn't have to be so fast. Well, whatever pace you would like. Yeah. The other thing that I think would be good as we try to do this is that somebody who's got a real good ear and sense of these things sit down and redo the chant books so that it's a lot clearer and easier to follow. You mean like putting them beside critical marks? Yeah, consistently. Because people will pick up the books and they'll be using it and say, OK, it's not in there.

[40:40]

I nominate John Hoagie. John, are you referring to like doing it for the female, for the women ancestors? I think for all of them to go through. things like that. Would it also maybe be helpful to put these rules somewhere on the chamfer so somebody new could look at them? Because I've found that I've learned some wrong things, because if the most people are doing it the wrong way, I just do it that way. And I think I've picked up. So I'm handing these out for you to keep. And actually, the more we chant it this way, actually we learn it fairly quickly.

[41:47]

And when we chant it correctly, then new people will also chant it correctly. Yes. First you can sing a few lines to go with you. Okay. Biba si vysyzaje svo, dziki vysyzaje svo, vysoko vysyzaje svo, koro sam vysyzaje svo, vysoko vysyzaje svo, svo vysyzaje svo, Just a minute. Just a minute. I'm not sure that we're all on the same page, but I don't think we're on the same groove.

[42:52]

Just go a little slower, because I think that You may have to think a little bit and listen more. So it's hard to listen when we're doing it more quickly. So let's do it more slowly. Yes, sir. Yeah. It sounds like we were doing two beats on the da-i-yo-sho, kind of hanging there. Is that correct or not? Bi-ba-shi-bu-tu da-i-yo-sho. Da-i-yo-sho. It's hard to make it short. It's hard to make it quicker because it's of the pause that we're doing.

[44:00]

That's actually the pause you're talking about. So instead of making a line, we should just go on to the next ancestor. Dai-yo-sho-ka-sho-bu-tsu, Dai-yo-sho-sha-ka-mu-tsu, Dai-yo-sho-ma-ka-ka-sho, Dai-yo-sho-ma-ka, Dai-yo-sho-sho-na-mo-tsu, Dai-yo-sho-bu-ra-ti-tsu, Dayo Shov, [...]

[45:09]

I die a show. [...] by your soul, Shishita, by your soul, Shishita, by your soul, Bhu-Yogita, by your soul, Han-Yatara, by your soul, Dharuva, by your soul, Kali-Sota, by your soul, Han-Shi-Sota, by your soul, Kali-Bhushan, by your soul, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, [...]

[46:30]

Rōgai dai-yō shō un-gō-yō shō-dō-an-gō-hi dai-yō shō-dō-kan-chi dai-yō shō-ryō-san kan dai-yō shō tai-yō-gyō dai-yō shō-dō-tsu-gi-sei dai-yō shō-fu-yō Oh, I am so happy. [...] Great Teacher Mahaprajapati, Great Teacher Pandita, Great Teacher Kena, Great Teacher Saranda, Great Teacher Attachara, Great Teacher Upasana, Great Teacher Chinchen, Great Teacher Sanghi, Great Teacher Nidyao, Great Teacher Kailashan, Great Teacher Roshan, Great Teacher

[48:03]

and then all of a sudden it's just me, [...] it great teacher, great teacher, [...] great teacher, great emphasis on that we have been overlooked when we do this Chinese, when we do the women ancestors.

[49:07]

Kind of get into just, you know, doing not really paying attention to the emphasis that we could be putting on the souls. But I think it would be good to have someone It wasn't 100 percent. It was about me. Should we be trying to apply these rules as we go? So she. That's what I think. Yeah. OK. That's why I think we should put the credit for this. So Eric did this set of non-traditional transliteration in order to get pronunciation. Yes. Yes. So I'm confused. So this is the way that the Chinese ancestors have their names pronounced.

[50:17]

But now you want to jeopardize. No, I don't want to jeopardize anything. This is not in Chinese. I think someone who understands the Chinese. Eric did understand the Chinese. Yeah. He wrote this out for us. And as I said, it's not perfect. Right. It's not academic transliteration. It's for our pronunciation. And in that way, we should also put an H after the C in Patachara. We shouldn't have it looking like it should be pronounced Patachara. We should write C-H-A-R-A. We were just trying to make it as simple for us. But I understand. I understand her point. Right. So it may be that we're ready now to make these refinements to go back. Not just academic transliteration. Yeah. That's off track. Yeah. OK.

[51:17]

Anyway, it's hard to say what the Japanese have written in their original language. But I think we may sound good and I think we should find our own rhythm and without being grossly nasty in our pronunciation. We should find a way to do it. and emphasize listening and getting energy rather than emphasize sounding like a, you know, 18th century Chinese prince. Well, if we do that, we probably will sound like it. Anyway, our goal is not to be able to do it all together. Joseph, are you going to, before we do the Buddhas and Ancestors tomorrow morning, before the service, tell the people who are new, make an announcement that we're going to make this, we're actually going to do this I-Critical Mars, because it's quite a bit different than what we've been doing.

[53:23]

Well, it's not different than what we've been doing, but not everybody knows what we've been doing, what we're supposed to be doing. Good. Yeah. I think a lot of people do and a lot of people don't. But you're right. I'll inform them before we do that in the morning. It would be good to actually have another chanting practice. Second period. We can make more copies of this. how we can make more than I have. That way, they're just going to the service and do the service. That's the best way. So, this Christmas Eve will be our chanting practice. Well, this will be a good time.

[54:24]

It's hard to get everybody together to do this.

[54:27]

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