It's possible to have maybe one or maybe two reports from the group so we can have some experience together of what you talked about. Okay. I'd like to report from Judita's group as much as I remember. As soon as we drop our cultural definition of a body periphery with the skin some kind of confusion comes up for most everyone.

[01:05]

If I drop this concept, then I can actually not really find or create any physical periphery or border or something out there. Like pain would be an explanation. It can have a physical cause, it doesn't need to have a physical cause. And their immunological and psychological conditions can enhance or decrease pain. And the second example would be any sense of perception It would be, from the starting point, physical body, something that is perceived within this physical body and is also then transformed or worked with within the body.

[02:35]

And it's seemingly a report from the outside world which is not really graspable. Some comments, statements which occurred during this discussion. What needs the body to create and deal with energy? Some person who has lived here for quite a while her bodily experiences of the people in the facilities the rooms here is not the same anymore after she returned back here after a longer time away it's more that only since lunch now somehow I find back this this

[04:25]

awareness where I don't have to be concerned how to be here physically and which I can rely on a lot of experiences here and before it was like bumping here and there and not really and trying a new which was also good and it was a good experience not to rely like a reference point home but I find again, and also it's not totally the same, but I find my way in. to be here, with the way things are going, with you, with Roshi, with the teapot, with everything I know so well, and that, on the one hand, a feeling of trust comes up again, and on the other hand, through the distance that I have gained so far, I am generating it again, and that has something to do with it.

[05:35]

The point of reference is not to have it automatically. I come here and automatically create myself. A person has reported that some people do not even have their physical body, their complete physical body. This probably applies to most of us, if we can even feel it. And some other person that was also you said that she can't experience her body in its entirety, and it's probably an experience of most every one of us. And another experience, also maybe in that context, that the body is only really experienceable with or through pain.

[06:48]

And some person noticed that the experience of the body got only experienceable through a slight cold which happened to come these days. And the same person reported that this feeling of unwellness disappeared in Zazen. It seems that there can be substantial unpleasant feelings occurring in your body when you are in a room with particular people. Someone said that the experienceable space It can be extended through various therapeutic techniques concerning the breath, when you can extend the breath through the body or something.

[08:31]

That reminded me of an experiment that took place in Soviet Union many years ago. They took a rabbit mom away from her babies and took her hundreds of kilometers away from them. And then they killed the mom. And they had their babies hooked up, you know, the rabbit babies hooked up with the brain and the heart waves. In the moment the mother got killed, the heart monitors showed significant different pictures. That was the basic panopticon of our general view. I see, okay. David? Yeah, we had some similar questions. We touched on similar aspects.

[10:02]

One difficulty was to find out what is body actually, so some people explained. We had an idea of body as a possibility to look into the body. We tried to grasp the concept of the body, which was quite difficult. A second was to experience the body through pain and through aging. The person had done a lot of sports and did sometimes too much, so he has injuries and now experiences his body through this impediments or something and another person

[11:04]

explains in this context the reality of having a female or a male body that has some kind of importance and in this way came to the I don't know the English word, maybe somebody can translate to the German word, Leib. No, you know the difference. We have two words for body now. There's the body, and there's the so-called Leib, which... No, no, no. One is a kind of... Yeah, maybe that's a good thing, just call it soma and body or something like that.

[12:26]

Which somehow... It's not soul, it's not physical body. It's not a pure physical component, it's also a kind of mind. There is something going on. We also came across the concept of the body in the context of the body and we were asked what the difference could be and we found that in the concept of the body something additional to the purely physical, physical, physical, anatomical was added, whether it is the spirit or not, we could discuss it that way. And there was a third part that was interesting that it was difficult to define what we understand under body feeling. Okay. Well, that's probably enough for now.

[13:28]

We continue tomorrow morning. So let's just sit for a minute. In stillness, what body do we discover?

[16:08]

When you look just now to your experience, what are the boundaries of your experience? Where are the boundaries of your experience? If the body is an experience and not an image, what are the boundaries of your experience?

[16:47]

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