Today I'm going to talk about a koan, a case which is one of the most well-known cases in the Mumon-Kan. And I'm sure you all know this case, and I've talked about it many times. Nanchen, Nanchuan's ordinary mind is the Tao. Case 19 in the Pumankan, ordinary mind is the Tao. So, Zhaozhou, here we have Zhoushu again, and Nansen, Nanchuan, who is his teacher. And so, in this case, Zhaozhou is a young, apparently a young monk, and he's asking this wonderful beginner's question to Nantuan.

[01:16]

And he says, what is the Tao like? Very direct question about, tell me the whole thing. What is the Tao? And Nan Chuan said, ordinary mind is the Tao. And then Zhao Zhou asked, should I try to direct myself toward it? And Nanchuan said, if you try to direct yourself toward it, you betray your own practice. And Zhouzhou asked, well, then how can I know the Tao if I don't direct myself toward it? And Nanchuan said, the Tao is not subject to knowing or not knowing. Knowing is delusion, and not knowing is a lack of awareness. Lack of what? Awareness. There are many words that you can put in there.

[02:18]

You say blank. I don't like the word blank. Blind is not bad, but I think non-awareness is good. Simply not aware. If you truly reach the genuine Tao, you will find it as vast and boundless as outer space. How can this be discussed at the level of knowing and not knowing? With these words, Zhaozhou had sudden realization, as they say. And then, Wu Man has a comment. Questioned by Zhaozhou, Nanchuan lost no time in showing the smashed tile and the melted ice where no explanation is possible. Though Zhaozhou had realization, he could affirm it only after another 30 years of practice. And then there's this famous verse of Mumad's, spring comes with flowers, autumn with the moon, summer with breeze, winter with snow.

[03:27]

When idols concerns don't hang in your mind, that is your best season. So there's a lot of meat in this bone and we can chew on it for a long time. So, ordinary mind is a Tao. Tao, of course, means the way. But in here, you know, Tao can be used in various ways, and used to mean various ways, or path, it also means path. Here it means He's not saying, what does Tao mean? He's saying, what is the way, the holy way? What is the way of all the Buddhas? And Nansen says, ordinary mind.

[04:34]

So we have to investigate this term ordinary because the whole thing turns on the word ordinary. And what ordinary? The meaning of ordinary. Ordinary means constant. It means sustaining. It can mean eternal. But we usually use it to mean our usual way in the world of desire. Ordinarily I get up and eat breakfast and then, you know, and at night I sometimes turn on the TV and then, you know, and I ordinarily go to work and scratch my nose, and so forth.

[05:41]

That also is one use of ordinary. Michi and Dao. In Japanese, michi means ordinary in the usual sense, in the realm of comparative values, actually. When we speak of ordinary, we mean ordinary in the realm of our life of comparative values, where something is worth more than something else, and where we value one thing over another, and constantly comparing. I like so-and-so, I don't like somebody else. And Tao is like the way. So we're brought up more or less in the realm of Michi, in the realm of comparative values.

[06:48]

And then when we start to practice, that ordinary becomes turned toward way-seeking mind. or the Tao. So we kind of trade in Michi for Tao. We trade in our grasping mind, our ordinary desire mind for a way-seeking mind. When desire mind gets turned around, it's no longer called desire, even though we want the Tao, that's a desire, but it's a purified desire. When we read the Buddhist literature, we often read, give up desire, give up all desire, cut off the root of desire.

[07:56]

But you can't do that, you know, that's just a way of speaking. Without desire, you can't really do anything. So desire is a very important driving mechanism in our lives. But when desire is turned toward the Dharma, then it's no longer called desire, called, as I said before, way-seeking mind. So, way-seeking mind is the Tao, Tao-seeking mind. So, nonsense is ordinary mind is the Tao. So, how do we get from ordinary mind to Tao? Then Zhao Zhou asks, well should I direct myself toward it?

[09:04]

What should I do? Should I go after it? Which is usual. Going after it is in the realm of Michi. It's in the realm of, in the desire realm. And then Zhouzhou Nonsense says, if you try to direct yourself, you betray your own practice. You stumble past it, is my interpretation. If you direct yourself toward it, you just go past it. And then you have this vast space out in front of you. But where is it? But you can't not go after it. So this is kind of the koan. This is the crux of the koan. Well, how can I know the jahovah if I don't direct myself toward it then?

[10:08]

That's what jahadus is. How do I know it if I don't go after it? If I don't seek it, how can I go after it? How can I get it? How can I, where is it? How can I know it? And so, Nan Juan says, the Tao is not subject to knowing or not knowing. Knowing is delusion, and not knowing is a lack of awareness. So, as we were talking about before, knowing, you can I use the terms of realization and knowledge. You can realize it without knowing it, without the knowledge.

[11:10]

Knowing it or realizing and knowledge are not the same. So knowing is a kind of delusion because whatever it is that we know is not it, falls short. But we always want to know, we always want to have that reassurance of knowing. Sometimes we talk about practice as being blind, practicing in the dark, and feeling your way one step at a time. That's actually true practice. So we call it blind. There are various kinds of blindness. And true blindness is not relying on anything and finding your way moment by moment in the dark. Dogen uses this term

[12:17]

reaching for your pillow in the night. Interesting term, that's kind of like true practice, reaching for your pillow, groping for your pillow in the night. So it's like not knowing, and not knowing is sometimes called the highest kind of knowledge. But trusting that not knowing is not so easy. pretty much know where it is, so is there that kind of positive sense to like, there it is, it's not like you have to figure out where it is, it's just the first thing.

[13:30]

Yeah, it's intuition. So it's depending on intuition, not on sight, not on knowledge. So, when he says, knowing is delusion, this is knowing in a sense, in the dualistic sense. There is a knowing, which is intuitive sense, which is not separate, separation, not dualistic. It's not just an idea. I like the term blind, actually.

[14:37]

He says, if you truly reach the genuine Tao, you will find it as vast and boundless as outer space, meaning no special shape or form. There's no special shape or form. How can it be discussed at the level of knowing and not knowing? So, ordinary mind in the A sense of comparative values is called small mind, and in a sense of Tao, it's called big mind.

[15:43]

So, big mind, Suzuki Roshi always used to say, small mind is an expression of big mind. The realm of comparative values and the realm of Tao are not two different things, but they seem different. Yesterday we were talking about the Four Wisdoms and how the Four Wisdoms are the purified aspects of consciousness. Purified means not dualistic. That's the meaning of purity. So we say the impure is found within the pure. The pure is found within the impure, and the impure is found within what is pure. Garbage is valuable. We think of garbage as impure, but garbage is quite pure.

[16:51]

and it's tremendous energy and it's transformable into flowers and fruit and becomes food for all beings. So what is pure and what is impure is hard to say. But there is a time when something is impure in the comparative realm. But in the Dharma realm, there is no pure or impure. Everything is just what it is. Things are not good or bad. is simply everything takes up its space and annoys something else. Is that right?

[17:55]

So, says, questioned by Zhaozhou, Nanchuan lost no time in showing the smashed tile and the melted ice where no explanation is possible. Different interpretations of that sentence, different ways that's translated, but we'll go with it this way. Nanchuan lost no time showing the smashed tile and the melted ice where no explanation is possible. In other words, he broke up all the conceptual dependencies, so that Zhao Zhou didn't have anything to hang on to. Though Zhao Zhou had realization, he had certain realization, he could confirm it only after another 30 years of practice.

[19:07]

So that's really a good statement. Enlightenment first, then practice. 30 years of practice. Then, teaching. Teaching. After 30 years, he could teach. He had enlightenment, sudden enlightenment. then he had 30 years of practice, then he could teach, although he was teaching before that. But he wasn't mature until 30 years later. We don't wait until we're mature to teach. There's a certain amount of maturity, certain maturity, you know, that we have, and so we teach according to our maturity. teaching helps us to learn. The valuable thing about teaching is that it helps us to learn.

[20:11]

So when you teach a class, you have to scramble to find out what it is you're going to do, and that really stimulates you to be honest with yourself And it stimulates you to discern what it is that you're actually doing, and it brings out your knowledge, and then you see what you don't know. So, when you give a class, you see all the things that you don't know, and then you go back and you study them, and then you bring them to the next class. So really it goes two ways, teaching helps you, it educates you as well as educating people that you're teaching. So sometimes, you know, a teacher is one step ahead of the class.

[21:13]

So this ordinary mind is, how can we describe it? We can't. Nam Chon says, we can't describe it. But it's the place, even though we can't describe it, it's the place where the ordinary and the holy come together as one. That's ordinary mind. So it's just what's always sustaining us is this ordinary mind, which is big mind. Big mind is always sustaining us. And small mind is the expression. And when we, sometimes we get isolated and small mind is just doing its thing without paying attention to big mind. That's called getting lost. So to be able to let go of the conceptualizations of small mind and let big mind fill the space is called practice.

[22:39]

So that small mind becomes a vehicle for big mind and expresses the profundity of big mind. and the simplicity of big mind. And that's done in various ways. So zazen, of course, is the ultimate expression of big mind. Small mind just gets out of the way. We just let go of everything and let big mind take over. But then, how do we carry that in our life? There are various ways to do that. Someone says, wait till somebody comes around three times before you say anything.

[23:43]

Be careful of what you say, how you relate to people, how you relate to things. I think of the world. We want to save all sentient beings. When we have our Bodhisattva vows, I vow to save all sentient beings. We say awaken with them, which is the same thing. But you know, what does that mean? No matter how much you try to save the world, everyone has their own suffering. Everyone is going to be born, so to speak. Everyone is going to die, so to speak. How are you going to save them all? What does that mean? You know, in thousands of years, even though the equipment changes that we use and there are various strides made to make peace in the world,

[25:00]

Nothing lasts. Peace does not last. War does not last. Well, war does last. Peace and war are always vying with each other as the two dynamics, dynamic aspects, polarities, in the realm of comparative values. So, we keep striving for peace, but, you know, as soon as we make advances, then they're overturned, and we have war, and then that's overturned, we have peace, that comes to an end, and then that's overturned, and every innovation, every beneficial innovation becomes overturned in time. So, war and peace just become compost in our world, and everybody has pleasure and they have suffering.

[26:06]

And we only live 70, 80 years, you know, and in that time, what do we do? So there are two aspects of practice. One aspect is practice to refine yourself, to benefit yourself, in a sense. And then there's practice to benefit others. But what does it mean to benefit others? And what does it mean to benefit yourself? How can we save the world? Well, what's the world? What is the world? Africa?

[27:14]

Alaska? New York? Just our world. I think is a kind of, it's not that there's somebody testing us, but it's a testing ground for each one of us, for everybody, to find out how to, what is actually real in this world. What is the reality of our life? We can fix things, But that's not saving sentient beings. Fixing things. You fix something and then it breaks down again. And then you fix it and it breaks down again. And you fix it. That's okay. We have to keep fixing. If everybody went on strike, if everybody in the world went on strike and just let everything go, that would be pretty good.

[28:20]

But that won't happen. If everybody just kind of licked over everything and sat down and said, what the hell is going on here? That'd be pretty good. But given that that's not going to happen, it's a testing ground to see what we'll do, to see how we live our life in a way that accords with reality. So practice is to find a way to live our life that accords with reality. And how do we touch reality? Not just how do we gather in as much material wealth as we can. That's total delusion. But how do we live within reality? The effort to do that practice for ourself benefits other people.

[29:34]

But you say, well, how does it benefit them? They're still suffering. And unless somebody finds the way to deal with suffering, that won't happen. So the practice of finding out how to deal with this suffering and how to deal with the true causes and to find our own joyous samadhi It helps to allow other people to have the faith that that's possible.

[30:37]

Not everyone will be attracted to the Dharma, but saving one person is really saving everyone. And who is that one person? Heal thyself, Doc. So the place that we have to work is here. And then we can touch other people. So I think the most valuable practice we can do is just what we're doing. And then it's also good to help people in the usual ways. But unless we can really get down to the fundamental and help people in that way, it's just the same old stuff over and over again.

[31:51]

The patterns are the same. The patterns of the world are always the same. And those will never change. We will never stop war. It can't happen. It's just not a possibility. Because the world revolves on dualities, on polarities. As soon as you have peace, it brings up war. It's inevitable. As soon as you have war, it brings up peace. Because peace is only possible if you have war. War is possible because you have peace. So the question is, how do we sustain ourselves in this kind of situation? We keep working for peace. You have to keep doing that. You have to definitely keep doing that without an expectation that the patterns of the world will change.

[32:59]

We simply take care of what's in front of us. And it's not pessimistic. If you think it's pessimistic, that's a kind of delusion. It's simply facing reality. But you have to keep working for peace all the time. But this is where you have to work. We have to look at our own self and see our own reactions and our own responses. And if we don't have it within ourselves, how do we expect that things will change? But change comes from a center, and the center is you.

[34:02]

And when each one of us influences the world, That's optimistic. Each one of us influences the world. We find our center, and from that center, we can touch, light up our world, our space. And when we light up our own space, the world lights up, because one thing touches another. So we don't know the far-reaching effect of our practice, but it's there. It's really interesting how people know when something happens without having to have it advertised. So how do we bring the holy and the mundane together as one piece?

[35:22]

How do we bring the world of comparative values and the realm of absolute reality together as one piece? How do we allow our usual life to be the way. You know, when we bring our palms together like this, gassho means this is michi and this is do. Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, Shravakas, Pachaika Buddhas, Devas, the world of hell, human beings, animals, hungry ghosts, fighting demons, and heaven.

[36:26]

And we bring it all together like this and bow. So that's what's actually happening when we bow. This is a statement of saving the world. So be careful. It's not just a mechanical gesture. It's meaningful. But if you don't make it too meaningful, It shouldn't be ostentatious, just simply normal. When your life is normal, that's it. Nothing special. Buddha says, he's only talking about the norm. If you read the Pali scriptures, the Buddha's talking about what is the norm.

[37:33]

It's normal, every day. What is extraordinary? Someone asked Nansen, I think it was. What is the most extraordinary thing? He says, oh, sitting on this mountain, eating rice. So when spring comes with flowers, autumn with the moon, Summer with breeze, winter with snow. When idle concerns don't hang in your mind, that is your best season. So, the way is right under our feet. If we try to grasp it, we can't. All we can do is do it.

[38:35]

Just do the work and find the way in the work. Don't look for something special. That's why we can practice. It's wonderful. We can enter practice. We don't have to know anything. But it's like a guy pushing you into the water and then you have to swim. So we thrash around, swim around. I can't swim. I need a reminder after this lecture of what the special value is in, say, social activism as compared to doing your laundry. They're equal, but you should do both. You should do your laundry the same way you do social activism, with the same mind, and you should do social activism with the same mind that you do

[39:39]

Your laundry. What would be missing if I just did my laundry? Well, you might be ignoring something. But you can't change it. Change what? That there is evil in the world. No, you can't eliminate evil from the world, but you can deal with circumstances. Even though you can't eliminate evil from the world, you can still deal with circumstances. You're not trying to eliminate evil from the world, you're simply trying to put out the fire in front of you. You're not trying to eliminate fire from the world, you can't do that. But you can deal with the fire in front of you. You have to do that. When you were talking about knowledge and Knowing is delusion and not knowing is ignorance.

[40:43]

The thought occurred to me, we talk about sexual congress as carnal knowledge. Congress, yeah. This is an area where it's very confusing for me. Yeah, it's confusing for everyone. Well, I was wondering if you could just say a few words about what kind of knowing is knowing that occurs in sexuality. Well, there are various levels. There are various levels. It can be... It can be like enlightenment. It can be like animalistic, which means just kind of getting something over with, doing something that you're driven by in a bodily way.

[41:53]

Or it can be an expression of great love. It can be all kinds of things. guidance on how to be able to tell when it's which, because one of the things about sexuality for me is it's sometimes hard to tell when it's something just animalistic and something that's love. I mean, the animalistic wants to convince me it's love. Well, it's not so hard to tell. It's not so hard to tell. It's how you feel afterwards. But there are levels of love. But true love is when you're not doing something just for yourself. And when you see that, as he says, afterward you see And then, well, did I do that just for myself, or was this some communal thing?

[43:10]

I have a wonderful statement here, I need to practice to attain the precious mirror, which is, as I was talking about yesterday, the precious mirror is like the Buddha nature. I need to practice to attain the precious mirror, although the precious mirror is not something I attain by practice. What time does your clock say? 2.07. So I think your watch and my watch are probably closer than your clock.

[44:31]

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