Let me first explain the ten realms of existence in Buddhism in reference to understanding the reason why we have to practice, represented as diverged subhastika. Actually, according to Dogen's spirit, that explanation might be useless, because in the case of Gakudo Yojinshu, he said the explanation of the ten realms of human existence or whatever, they all are useless. All you have to do is to realize the truth of impermanence and arouse the body-mind.

[01:08]

Well, this is true. That is very important. But I would like to explain ten realms of existence which might be useless. I don't want to explain one by one the meaning of ten realms of existence. According to the idea of the ten realms of existence, we should understand where, in what situation human beings are. This is very interesting. You know the ten realms of existence? One is hell, and the animals. First one is hell, the hungry ghost, and animal spirit, asura.

[02:16]

Asura means fighting spirit. Well, I don't want to explain asura anyway. That is also a very interesting term. Anyway, asura and man. Asura is fighting spirit. Man and heaven. Asura-vaka and pratika. Asura-vaka is s-r-a-v-a-k-a. Asura-vaka, pratika, p-r-a-t-y-e-k-a, pratika. Bodhisattva and Buddha. Bodhisattva, b-o-d-h-i-s-a-t-t-v-a, bodhisattva. That is ten realms of existence. Well, until the heaven, or celestial being, until the seven, we call the six realms of samsara.

[03:42]

Anyway, those six realms belong to the world of delusion, by which all sentient beings are going astray, creating the samsara again and again. Heaven also exists until the sixth. All six. But the celestial beings in the lower parts of heaven, they are caught by what you call the physical desire. Physical desire, okay? So we call this yokai, yokai, yokai.

[04:57]

Yokai's desire or craving, yokai, is the world. This is the celestial beings, celestial beings are present in the lower rank, lower class of the heaven. And the celestial beings in the middle class of heaven are caught by the restraint of the body. This is called shikikai, shikikai, shikikai. Shiki is form, the body itself, body itself. So the celestial beings in the middle class of heaven be free from the desires, the physical desires, but they are still caught by the body itself.

[06:16]

So that's what is called shikikai, the form, the world of form. The celestial beings in the upper class of heaven are still caught by mind, okay? Mind. So this is called mushikikai, mushikikai. Mushiki is no form, no form. So celestial beings in the high rank of the heaven are completely free from the physical desires and the physical restraint, but are caught by still the mind.

[07:23]

That is called mushikikai. Those three we call sangai. A triple word, sangai. Sang is three, gai is words, or triple word. When you use a triple word, the triple word refers to those three words, and also another meaning is past, present, future. Okay, this is kind of heaven. What is very interesting in this ten realms of existence is, where is the man?

[08:42]

Man is this, it's actually in the middle, in the middle of ten realms of existence, middle. That is a very interesting point. Man, human beings are right in the middle of ten realms of existence. And also, in terms of the Buddha's world, is there any relationship between the times, past, present, future, and the three realms? The world in the past, the world in the present, the world of future. I know, but is there a relationship between the forms and the times? Can you say, for example, that the world of form is the world of present, or something like that?

[09:47]

I think so. Those forms, yokai and shikai and mushikai, are related to time. The same order? No, no. So each of those three, each of the other three. This is the past, present, future? Past, present, future, yokai. Yokai in the world of past, present, future. So, in terms of, well, after six, heaven, in terms of the world, the realms of existence are from heaven. Heaven, Sravaka, Pratika, and Bodhisattva are Buddha. Those realms imply to, well, holy world. Being free from samsara.

[10:52]

Samsara. So, in terms of these realms of existence, the man is a being who is going to, who is subject to go to the samsara. Do you understand? Samsara. Because he is just in the middle. But in terms of this samsara, well, the man possesses possibility to go Buddha's world. So, where is the man? Man is completely right in the middle of good and bad, evil and good, pleasure and suffering. All samsara and nirvana.

[11:54]

Right in the middle. Man cannot attach to either one of them. Just in the middle. But most of the religion try to separate the samsara and nirvana from nirvana. Nirvana from samsara. Good from evil. Evil from good. Completely separate. For instance, when Buddha was born, at that time there was a religion, one of all religions, Jainism. Jainism emphasizes that they completely understand human body and soul, which are completely separated. Then they persuaded people to attain holiness.

[12:55]

Destroying the human body. By means of fast or other ascetic practices. But actually, as long as you are living in this world, you cannot be free from the restraints of body. Because body is there. You cannot destroy it. But if you want to destroy the restraints of human body, you have to die. So finally, they realized, by the death, you can experience the human soul, which is free from human samsara.

[14:09]

So all you have to do is, finally, you have to die. By the death. By the death, your human body is completely destroyed and only can keep hold of your soul, which is free from samsara. This is the purpose, this is the practice of Jainism and idealistic, ideal. The great image of human life. But on the other hand, what do you mean by this? It means, why do you have to die? In order to get the soul, which is free from all samsara. Why do you have to destroy your body? It means, as long as you are living in this world, you cannot be free from the restraints of human body.

[15:11]

Human body is here. So it means, in other words, it means, it is absolutely impossible for human being to save, to save from restraints of human body, desire of human body. That's why Jainism emphasized, emphasized that you should practice, you should practice the very strict, intense practice. Fasting and other ascetic practice. Finally, you should destroy your body. Then you can get soul, which is peaceful. But on the other hand, if you see this religious practice in terms of the back side, it means, it's impossible for human being to be free from, to be free from restraints of human body and desire, physical desire.

[16:25]

But most of the religion emphasizes this. If you study any other religion, always emphasize this. Body is not so good, so destroy it. Or let's imagine, let's take the problem of good and bad. Evil is not so good, so destroy evil. Then you should practice just good, good things. Be good. Not be evil. Be good, good boy. You must be good boy always. It seems good, but actually you cannot be. It's impossible to be good boy. As long as you are alive, carrying your human body and human body. It's impossible. This is, religious history teaches us in that way.

[17:32]

Study the old religions in India, China or wherever. All this teaches. And then finally what happens? There is nothing but, nothing but falling into despair. Despair. Nothing. That's all. Nothing else. Confusion. Despair. So, finally, people really like to commit suicide. Yes, this always happens in the human world. So, Therefore, a human, in the situation, in the situation, human being exist. Human being exist is right middle of 10 realms of existence.

[18:38]

This middle position is very flexible. Very flexible. You can go to the evil world. You can go to the Buddha's world. Very easy. Either way. And then, what do you mean? It is, human beings is just like a pendulum. I told you sometimes. Human beings is really pendulum. Toward, toward evil world, toward samsara, toward Buddha's world. Always. But, pendulum itself has a very certain regularism. But human being doesn't have a regularism like a pendulum. Human beings are completely irregular. Irregularism of pendulum. Always. That's why anytime, anywhere, you can go to the hell, you can go to the Buddha. If you,

[19:42]

if human being, as a pendulum, has very regularism, to the right, to the left, no problem. No problem. You can find any kind of problem, you can find a solution of any kind of problem, through your intellectual sense. But you don't. So, human being, as a pendulum, doesn't have regularism. It is completely irregular. No particular pattern. And then, Buddhism emphasizes, emphasizes, you cannot separate good from evil. Evil and good are same. One. One. One is, that teaching is, emphasizes, teaching is that,

[20:44]

good and existence of good and evil, the samsara and nirvana, human body and human soul, are existent, interconnected, in a system of interconnection, interpenetration. Interpenetration. Do you understand? But Buddhism understood, the good and evil, the samsara and nirvana, human body and soul, exactly in the system of interpenetration, interconnection. Without this system of interconnection, interpenetration, you cannot understand, there is no possibility. There is no possibility to understand unity of good and bad, right and wrong,

[21:48]

man and woman, the samsara and nirvana. Nirvana. You can't. So, important point is, good and bad, right and wrong, Buddhas and ordinary persons are completely existent, in the system of interpenetration, interconnection. So, what do you mean? In the system of interpenetration, interconnection, the good and bad, right and wrong, or middle, pleasure and suffering, nirvana, and all things are just like a family. Family. Just like a family. Trees, birds, airs, the sun, the moon, evil and good, all sentient beings are just like a family. What do you mean the family? Family is a place, family is a place you have to grow,

[22:49]

you have to grow your own eagerness, no. If you grow your own eagerness, you cannot keep whole of your family life. So, what do you mean family? Family is, the husband must be empty. Husband must be the wife, sometimes. Husband must be the child, yes. The husband cannot keep whole of his own position, saying, I am husband, I am master of this family. You cannot. Of course it is. But, husband doesn't have its own substance, which is called husband. Husband comes into existence, only when you realize the presence of wives, wives, children,

[23:50]

and your parents, your grandparents, birds, trees, all sentient beings, at that time you can find your own position, which is called husband. This is a family. So, what is the place which is called family? Family is a great place where you can practice the eagerness, at that time you can keep your family life, which is called husband, which is called wife, which is called children. This is it. This is because husband, wife, children, all are existing in the system of complete, perfect, perfect interpenetration, interconnections. The interconnection, interpenetration means, to make your square, square ego, square shape of ego,

[24:52]

round, completely round. If you have a square shape of ego, it is bound. I am a husband, you are a wife, you are a child, you should obey my order, something like that, always. So, anyway, you should have a round ego. I don't mean that you should destroy ego, ego is very important, but, ego must be round, ego must be round, not square. So, by the practice of egolessness, forgetting yourself, planting into others' world, helping in order to help enrich, at that time you can practice your egolessness. But, if you try to grow your ego, you really try to hold, hold off, keep hold off, wives, children in your hand.

[25:55]

It means you are always seeing everybody in terms of your own viewpoint. That is a big problem. And then finally, what happens? You are confused, completely you are confused, and finally you fall into despair, because you know nothing to find a solution, find a problem. Do you understand? This is all, this is all problem we have. Not only you, everybody. So you should understand, wives and husbands, children, in the system of interpenetration, interconnection, this is very important. You cannot separate, you cannot separate husband from wife. That is a perverted view. So,

[26:57]

that is why, first you should, you should understand, good and bad, samsara and nirvana, and buddhas, ordinary persons, practice enlightenment, in the system of interpenetration, interconnection. Which means, each of them doesn't have its own substance, substance, no ego, completely no ego. That is called emptiness, emptiness. It's called emptiness, emptiness, ku, called ku in Japanese.

[28:01]

Then if you understand human defamilies, husband, wife, children, in the system of interpenetration, interconnection, you can realize how important the practice of egolessness is. So, that's why Dogen then says, to learn the self is to forget the self. Anyway, you have to forget. How can you love others? Anyway, forget and throw away yourself into others in order to enrich health. This is first important. And then, this is called way of life based on emptiness, emptiness. But at that time, according to your karma, your karma, you really feel that your life is shrinking, shrinking, because you often

[29:06]

throw away yourself into others in order to help enrich. That time, you really feel by your individual personal life is shrinking and finally disappear. You feel so. Don't you think so? Well, look at your practice. Well, first time, you really enjoy practicing in a group. Then, for a while, you are practicing in a group. The group of dancing, lots of decorations, orders, orders, jobs, various jobs, well, whatever it is, excitement, one another excitement, lots of jobs. And then, even though you don't like, do it. Would you do it? I don't like, but anyway, do it. So finally, where is your individual life? Personal life. Personal life is becoming smaller and smaller. And finally disappear.

[30:06]

When your personal individual life disappear and not be confused by your great Zen monk, but most of kids, we are really confused. And then, at that time, you say, I don't want that job. Well, Zen center in United States, in a monastery, we always understand your feeling. Would you like this? Do you like this job? You don't like that job? Obviously, we ask first, but it's ridiculous. Okay? Because, if you ask first, that is a cause of growing the ego. Why did you come here? It's not necessary to come to the monastery to practice. The monastery is a place to kind of making your emptiness. So, this is an emptiness. Emptiness. But at that time,

[31:09]

you feel always, you feel always uneasy. Because, it seems that way of life seems to making your individual personal life shrink. Okay? But I don't think so. Okay? I don't think so. It's really growth because of your enriching of your personal exertion. Please, believe me. I did in the past. I was completely despair and nervous. I couldn't do anything at all. But I couldn't leave. I couldn't leave that place. I was always there. I don't want. That's why I was there, but I was completely confused. But, it's very good practice. Stay there. Stay there. That is called, okay, provisional,

[32:12]

provisional reality. It's called kick. Okay? But actually, you feel always shrinking. Okay? But, actually, whatever you feel, your body and mind is shrinking again and again, more and more. But, your body and mind really exist. Pay attention to your body, fast. Where your body and mind is there. Not shrinking, but feeling. It is really feel shrinking. But actually, your body and mind is there. This is so fast. So, that is provisional reality. Provisional reality. And then, at that time, you can really accept. If you see this, the aspect of human life based on provisional reality, at that time,

[33:19]

you feel, intellectually, you feel uneasy. But, in a sense, a deep sense, in a deep sense, you really saying to yourself, that's ok, karagi, that's alright, karagi. Keep your mind calm. Keep your mind calm. Always telling you to yourself. But, on the other hand, always feeling uneasy. That's why, always, in this level, in this level, your life is just like a pendulum. Sometimes, your life is going to empty. It's called Buddhist world. That's alright, karagi, keep your mind, make your mind calm. Ok, ok. That's alright. But, on the other hand, you don't. Then, you go to anyway, hell. Always. But, this rhythm is completely irregular. When? You can't

[34:20]

experience this. Perfect life. No. Always. That pendulum is always going to the right and to the left. Irregularly. Not regularly. Irregularly. Pendulum of the clock is always moving irregularly. But, your life doesn't doesn't like a pendulum of a clock. Because, it's moving always irregularly. This is a stage of a this is a human life based on this. Provisionally, AI. But, you should go pass through this stage. Then, at that time, very gradually through this human life. Ok? Gradually. Gradually. Or sometimes, you realize great way of life. Ok? This is real human life. Ok? That is

[35:20]

middle way. Ok? So, here is I told you two aspects. Saying, I don't I'm not ok. But, on the other hand, I am ok. So, always pendulum. Ok? I am ok. I'm not ok. Always repeat like this. Finally, your pendulum stop. Oh, you nothing to say. When pendulum stop, you can see very calmly just pendulum moving to the right to the left quietly. Not making noise. Quietly. You can see. Just look at. Just watch. You can see that. And then, day by day, you can keep

[36:20]

you can take good care of your life. Watching this human life based on the provisional reaction of the pendulum. But, you can see this. Without making noise. Just watch quietly with profound silence. This is the middle way. Buddha's way. Your life at that time your life is very based on Buddha. Middle way. So, human the human mind is human and according to the ten realms of existence is located in the middle of ten realms. It means human is human being is a being in the system of interpenetration interconnection with evil, hell and Buddha. Completely. You can separate

[37:21]

hell from Buddha. Buddha from hell. Always connected. So, we call we call that Jukkai-gobu in Tendai. Jukkai [...] Go Gu Jukkai is ten ten realms. Go is each other mutually. Mutually Gu is what would you call a being endowed with. Being gifted with. Or interconnected. It means Gu. Jukkai-gobu

[38:22]

So, according to Jukkai-gobu well Buddha is now with Buddha. Buddha doesn't stay in the Buddha. Like a husband. Husband doesn't stay in the position of husband. Husband sometimes stay in the position of wife and children. At that time husband can live with the people in peace and harmony. It means hell within the hell okay within the hell there are the rest of the nine realms of existence. Do you understand? Nine realms of existence. It means here is also Buddha. That's interesting. That's great. But this is big problem. Within the Buddha well problem is problem is why why

[39:24]

no is it true is it true that there is a hell within the Buddha because Buddha is supreme good Buddha is supreme good supreme good This is Buddha. On the other hand what is hell? Hell is supreme evil supreme evil supreme evil You know the supreme evil? What is the supreme? Supreme is completely beyond category of good or bad right or wrong completely. Yes it is. At that time you know there is a term English term god damn What do you mean god damn? God is very beautiful word. Don't use

[40:25]

god term god in that way. But you use god damn. What do you mean god damn? God is damn. Stupid. God is stupid. What do you mean? In Japanese there is oshaka we call oshaka oshaka means shakamuni shakamuni Buddha But if you use oh I am oshaka oshaka means stupid boy stupid or oshaka means something which is broken destroyed like state of something state of thing which is broken and destroyed ruined that is called shakamuni oshaka So good thing good Buddha was supreme Buddha ok supreme Buddha

[41:26]

supreme good which is called Buddha which is called god whatever that is ok good on bad right wrong oh that is called supreme good and also supreme evil is also there is a Buddha good on bad right wrong because you cannot understand you cannot understand hell without Buddha through the hell you can understand what hell is ok and then through the hell you can learn something beautiful things which is exactly the same as virtue of Buddha yes that is called samsara through the samsara you can realize beautiful virtue exactly same as that of Buddha it means it means hell within the

[42:26]

hell there is a Buddha Buddha Bodhisattva many Buddha rest of ten realms of existence so it means always it means always those existence of hell existence of Buddha existence of nine nine realms of existence all are existent always moving in the system of interconnection into moving without having a certain fixed idea this is hell or this is Buddha no because in the relation in the system of relation hell comes into existence that existence of hell has no equal because hell must practice equalism like a husband then at that

[43:27]

time hell understands itself as it is so hell is not hell hell is Buddha so through the hell samsara you can learn the Buddha's word this is a jukkai gogu idea of jukkai gogu in Tendai school ok this is a understanding of a reason why we have to practice you present it as a reversed sudasarika ok reversed sudasarika why you have to practice the equalism if you are Buddha if you are Buddha it's not necessary to practice in dharma how to practice but why do you

[44:28]

have to practice if you are Buddha ok that's why I explain this Dogenzin says just simply awaken to the truth of impermanence impermanence means impermanence means the human world is existence in the place where everything is empty each other by each other ok practicing equalism always that time you can keep your life and you are valuable ok you are respected by others if you don't your life is not important because you emphasize your own existence that time your life is completely isolated from all sentient beings that time just one one guy it is

[45:28]

not important like you have a rosary with your wrist ok rosary each being each being doesn't mean it's not very valuable ok but there is a string string ok which is invisible ok invisible with this string ok all beings hands and eight are completely linked in harmony in peace at that time ok each being is very valuable very valuable that is called rosary just well this is very important ok so that's why we have to practice we have to practice in each being practice equalness

[46:28]

always to link with to link by to link with each other by means of invisible string ok while your practice practice of equalness must be invisible but anyway invisible means through your way into others in order to reach help that is practice of equalness at that time your life is very important because your life is very connected with others so by first figure there is two circles first circle black circle is equality ok equality blue circle red circle

[47:29]

inner circle which is red is phenomenon samsara samsara and nirvana must be one must be one because you can separate then how can where where should you practice you should practice right in the middle of unity of samsara and nirvana that's why right in the middle of two circles there is reversed samsaric samsaric samsara [...] ok and then that practice is called the practice in realization ok practice in realization because practice is not something separated from realization ok practice is existence of practice It is existence, so practice lies in the system of interpenetration, interconnection.

[48:36]

You cannot practice separately from realization. So your practice is Buddha's practice. Anyway, right in the middle of unity of Buddha and ordinary person and nirvana and samsara, unity of nirvana and samsara, unity of good and bad, right-wrong, this practice, which is called practice in realization. That practice is very quiet. And then the second figure is two circles, black circle, the first outer circle is black, which means real reality, nirvana. The inner circle is red, which means samsara, and nirvana must be one. Then they are absolutely unified, there is realization of practice in, no, there is practice in realization.

[49:50]

You can realize how to practice. That is called middle way, middle way. That is the center, that's why in the center of these two circles, there is a completely black circle. That black circle is explained as the experience of the one undivided whole of the living and the Buddha of the completion of all actions and of the perfection of full fruition depends on all nature. All nature as it was, this is completely unity of samsara and nirvana, is actualized. This is the meaning of the black in the center.

[50:51]

And then all the nature as it was means the Buddha nature. Buddha nature is existent regardless of whether Buddha Shakyamuni was born in this world, or regardless of whether you are conscious of it or not, there is always Buddha nature. So finally, before you attain enlightenment, Buddha nature practice does end. When you attain enlightenment, Buddha nature attains enlightenment. After enlightenment, Buddha nature carries on just Buddha nature. So here it says the all nature, all nature as it was means Buddha nature. Buddha nature exists from the beginningless past to endless future. When you see Buddha nature from here, after enlightenment, Buddha nature is all nature as it was.

[51:58]

But it is now something different from Buddha nature you realize now. The same and one Buddha nature, for example, means that the Buddha after his enlightenment says, wondrous, wondrous, all living beings without exception are endowed with the Buddha's wisdom and its virtue. Wondrous, wondrous is how beautiful it is, how beautiful all sentient beings are, how beautiful samsara is, how beautiful hell is, how beautiful hungry ghost is. Hungry ghost is really a being interconnected, interpenetrated with Buddha, Bodhisattva. So, wondrous, wondrous, all living beings without exception, without exception, completely all living beings

[53:05]

are endowed with the Buddha's wisdom, Buddha's wisdom, the all nature as it was, existing from the beginningless past to endless future, anyway. Buddha's wisdom and Buddha's wisdom is real nature, original nature of the self. And virtue means, virtue means the state of being what? Virtue, original nature which is called Buddha nature, Buddha's wisdom is actualized in your daily living. That is called virtue. But dictionary doesn't explain it that way. Dictionary explains virtue, just idea. But virtue, when you use virtue, well, now virtue is really living, lively activity.

[54:11]

When Buddha nature is moving, working in dynamism, this is virtue. It means beauty of human being, beauty in hearing in human being. On the other hand, Buddha nature is your original, the essential nature of your self. In philosophy it's called substance, whatever. Anyway, original nature, essential nature of the self, this is Buddha nature. But it is not merely ideal, something conceptualized, it must be alive. That is, when it is actualized in your daily living, that Buddha nature becomes beautiful. That Buddha nature makes your life beautiful. Because your life is really alive, fully interconnected with all sentient beings.

[55:17]

That's why your life becomes beautiful. If you see trees, you feel beautiful. This is called virtue. Or, when the Buddha attains, attains the way he realizes that animate or inanimate beings in the dharma world are all simultaneously enlightened. All simultaneously enlightened. Well, yes it is, yes it is. When your life is very steady, interconnected with your family, mothers, fathers, and wives and children. Well, very naturally, wives, mothers, and parents, children, just be present with you. Sometimes they really respect you in the world, sometimes they don't respect.

[56:20]

But there is a likely fact, when parents, wives, and children are present with you, peaceful, harmoniously, completely beyond explanation. So, that's why you have that as enlightenment. If you attain enlightenment, it is, your enlightenment is really all sentient beings enlightened. Your enlightenment makes all sentient beings live in peace and harmony. That's why here, when the Buddha attains, the way he realizes that animate or inanimate beings in the dharma world are all simultaneously enlightened. Well, in the dharma world, we use dharma, but dharma has two meanings. One is the truth, the ultimate truth.

[57:23]

On the other hand is phenomena. But that phenomena is called dharma. That is a very interesting point. So, phenomena is non-phenomena, separate from ultimate truth. Phenomena is phenomena in the dharma, in the phenomena related, interrelated, interconnected with ultimate truth. So, simultaneously, this is unity of phenomena and Buddha, Buddha's world. This is called dharma world. So, from this point, all of you, including animate or inanimate beings, are completely existent in non-phenomenal world, in dharma world. Yes, it is. That's why you can attain enlightenment.

[58:25]

That's why you can understand husband who is living in peace and harmony, interconnected, interpenetrated with wife, children, parents. Below these two figures, the six Buddhas in the past are written. Look at the figure, this picture. The second figure, below the second figure, there is six names. Here is the translation. Vibhashi Buddha Bodhi, Shikhi Buddha Bodhi, Vishavu Buddha Bodhi, Kusum Buddha Bodhi, Kunagon Buddha Bodhi, Kasho Buddha Bodhi. It means the six Buddhas in the past, including all patriarchs, all Buddhas and patriarchs.

[59:35]

We took just the six Buddhas here, but it means to include all Buddhas, all patriarchs. Because all Buddhas, all Buddhas, six Buddhas in the past, all Buddhas, all patriarchs, practice. Practice Buddha's way in that way, according to the first figure, second figure, first figure, through the first figure. Then, each Buddha, Vishavu, Vishavu, Visha, Buddha, Buddha Bodhi, practiced in the past exactly first figure. That's why here is, the second figure, the unity of samsara and nirvana, and complete, full black, in the center of unity of samsara and nirvana.

[60:42]

This is the way of life based on middle way. So all sentient beings, all Buddhas and patriarchs, practice in that way, experience in that way. This is second part of figure. So, below three, these two figures, the six Buddhas in the past are written, which signifies that all the Buddhas in the Buddha's world, past, present and future are the one and same nature. So, practice you do is exactly same as that which the Buddhas, six Buddhas in the past, the all Buddhas and all patriarchs did, exactly same. So, your practice is really warm, very warm. Exactly same as Buddhas, six Buddhas in the past.

[61:45]

It is not something different, you do. That is Buddhas, six Buddhas in the past practice. Well, forming, presenting, representing in the form of individual person, which is called Karage. That's all. But strictly speaking, Karage is six Buddhas in the past, Shakyamuni Buddha, Dogon and patriarchs. Your teachers, anyone. This is your practice. So, all are one.

[62:22]

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