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2002.03.15-serial.00173
The talk explores the metaphor of "fishing" in Zen practice as articulated by Dogen, emphasizing the transmission of Dharma, how wise men and sages are described as "living by the water,” and how this metaphor involves engaging deeply with the self and the way. It discusses the story of the Zen master Tokujo and his disciple Kassan, highlighting the idea of attaining enlightenment and true Dharma without relying on traditional monastic structures. The discourse delves into the dual nature of reality – both flowing and not-flowing, visible and hidden – through the lens of Zen teachings.
Referenced Works:
- "Shobo Genzo" by Dogen: The section "Ikka no Myōju" is discussed, emphasizing the metaphor of the world as "one bright pearl" representing the oneness of reality.
- The Lotus Sutra (Shōhō Jissō): Mentions the true form (jissō) of all existences, integral to understanding Dogen's teachings.
- "Fukan Zazengi" by Dogen: Cited to contrast the idea of true dragons versus myths, relating to themes of authenticity in Zen practice.
- "Zen’s Chinese Heritage" by Andy Ferguson: Provides context for the historical narrative of Tokujo and Kassan.
- Sansuikyo by Dogen: Used to address the interconnectedness of reality and the metaphoric use of water as illustrating the nature of true Zen practice.
Please note that the above references are highly significant to understanding the central theme of teaching and practice within Zen philosophy as explored in the talk.
AI Suggested Title: Fishing for Truth in Zen Waters
Good morning, everyone. This is the last day of the session. I hope so. I don't believe six day have already passed. It's so quick. Anyway, so we are close to the end. Page 15, the last paragraph of page 15, on the right-hand side. Yeah. Again, since ancient times, wise men and sages have also lived by the water.
[01:04]
When they live by the water, they hook fish, or they hook people, or they hook the way. These are all water styles of old. And going further, they must be hooking the self, hooking the hook, being hooked by the hook, and being hooked by the way. So from this paragraph he talks about people who live by the water or the water as dwellings of sages and wise men or Buddhas and ancestors. And in this section, Dogen talks about the transmission of the way from teacher to student.
[02:13]
And living by the water is fuking, or fishing people. This is a kind of interesting fishing. You know, there's no bite. It's a very difficult thing to fish without a bite. So he said, again, since ancient times, wise men and sages have also lived by the water. And when they live by the water, They fish. There are some Zen masters, at least one, who used to be a fisherman before he became a monk, whose name was Gensha, Gensha Shibi. He was the person who said, this ten-direction world is one bright pearl.
[03:20]
Dogen discussed about this expression in Shobo Genzo Ikka no Myōju, One Piece of Bright Pearl. And, you know, to live by the water and hook the fish, or just fishing, is... For people, that means for disciples, that is the way they try to transmit Dharma. and fukk the way. That's the way the masters fukk the way, to keep the way, keep the practice of the way. That is how this Dharma has been transmitted from Buddha to us.
[04:23]
So all the masters are, in that sense, lived by the water and fishing. without bite. And these are all water styles of old. In the previous section, when he discussed about the mountains, he said that was a mountain style of life. And he said here, water style of old, means the ancient people were old Buddha. And going further, there must be fucking the self. So in that sense, in a sense, those masters are fishing not someone else as a student or disciples, but they are fucking, fishing themselves. You know, as I said about Ucha Moroshi saying, when I asked to be ordained as his disciple, he said he never encouraged people to be a priest or monk.
[05:45]
So he was not really fishing. He was just practicing for himself. He was just fishing himself. But somehow I wanted to be hooked. But he didn't hook me. So I have to hook myself. So we are hooking the self in the way we practice within the Sangha. We are fishing the self. And this is Dogen, King Lafouquet. In that sense, this is not me that is fuking the self, but actually this is an entire world of fuking, only fuking.
[06:47]
There's no person who is fuking, and nothing, no self which is fuked. But fuking is fuking, or fuk, fuking the fuk, or fuk is fuking the fuk. You know, that is... Sawaki Roshi often said, in our Zazen, we do the self with the self, by the self, for the self. So nothing, no separation between subject and object. That is an expression. came from Dogen's saying, to convey our self to all beings and carry out practice enlightenment is delusion. But all beings come toward the self and carry out practice enlightenment is enlightenment. So when this person is looking something, then that is not real practice.
[07:54]
But zazen, another expression of Sawakiroshi is zazen is doing zazen through this body and mind. So zazen is sitting shohaku. It's not shohaku is sitting zazen. Or zazen is sitting zazen. You know, as Sakyong said, self is doing the self with the self. Self is doing the self. That means shohaku is doing shohaku. You know, when I thought about the English expression, it is raining. As I said before, I was thinking, what is this eat? It's kind of strange things to me, but I felt it has very deep meaning. Fat is this eat. And I thought maybe, you know, this eat, it is show hacking.
[09:09]
So there are no such things called show hack, but it is show hacking. Then what this eat? This is very, I think, interesting koan using English language. Anyway, so there's no subject and object. Subject and object is one thing within this strange dharma. And hooking the hook, being hooked by the hook, And being hooked by the way, actually we are hooked by the way. So actually the subject of this strange fishing is the way. So the way is hooking the way. And Dogen picked up one example of the person or the master who lived by the water.
[10:18]
That was in Chinese pronunciation, ,, or in Japanese, . Long ago, when the preceptor Dechen suddenly left Yaoshan and went to live on the river, he got the stage of Huating River. This English word preceptor is a translation of Osho. Osho is a transliteration of Sanskrit word. I forget the Sanskrit word, but that means in Indian Sangha, when a person was ordained, he need a teacher. And in order to be the teacher, the person, the teacher should be at least practicing for ten years.
[11:26]
And that person is called, or a person who has been practicing at least ten years can give precept to the novice. So Osho means the person or teacher who can give precept or ordain someone. But in China and Japan, Osho is used not specifically as a person who can give precept, but Osho is used as a very common word to call a Buddhist priest. So here I don't think preceptor is a good translation. But it's not a mistaken translation. Please.
[12:29]
Osho. O-S-H-O. Osho. Please. Pardon me? Did you say, is that Yaoshan? Yaoshan, yes. Yaoshan is Yaksan in our lineage. So this person, Tokujo, since I cannot pronounce Chinese correctly, I use Japanese pronunciation. Please. You know, Ren Shi becomes Ren Zai, Tokujo. Why is there this, you know, Because Japanese people couldn't pronounce as Chinese. You know, even in Western culture, you know, for example,
[13:33]
Some people's name in Bible is different pronunciation in different ways in different countries. In French, Spanish, English, or Swedish, the same name is pronunciated in different ways. Same thing. The Japanese people had names already. They had a language, but then they used the writing system of China. But they pronounced the things the way they'd always pronounced them, using the writing system of China. So the characters are pronounced differently. There was already language in Japan, but it was not a writing system. And also, pronunciation. has been changing in the history. This is, you know, almost 1000 years ago. And even within the history of China, that pronunciation has been changed.
[14:53]
So in some cases, Japanese pronunciation, preserve the old Chinese pronunciation at that time. So there are many different cases, but we pronounce Chinese word as Japanese way. And even we write in English, ,, we cannot really pronounce as Chinese people pronounce. Because in Chinese, each word has a tone, four different tones. So unless we know the tones, even we pronounce as this alphabet is telling us, it might be completely different meaning for Chinese people by hearing. So this is a way American or non-Chinese people pronounce Chinese names.
[15:58]
So we are creating another tradition now. Anyway, this person, Tokujo, was called Sensu Tokujo. Sensu means boat boy, because he was a boatman. He was a disciple of Yaoshan, or in Japanese pronunciation, Yaksan. Yaksan Igen is a student of Sekito Kisenu. So in Dogen's writings, it said suddenly, but I don't think it's suddenly. He left because Yaksan, his teacher, died. went to live on the river. He got the sage of Huating River. Anyway, I think the story of this person has something to do with what Dogen is writing in Sansui-kyo and also Dogen's personal life.
[17:17]
I'd like to talk about the story of Sense Tokujou. This is a very interesting story, and I think Dogen liked this story. This is a translation by Andy Fogerson in the book, Zen's Chinese Heritage. First, he introduced who is Sense Tokujo. He lived 805 to 881. He said, since Tokujo, he wrote Chinese pronunciation, but I say Japanese, also known as the boatman or boat monk, or the disciple and Dharma heir of Yaoshan or Yaksan.
[18:25]
His day home was located in where I don't think we don't need to know his birthplace. But when Yaksan died, Another disciples, well-known disciples of Yaksan are Dogo Enchi and Ungan Donjo. Ungan is a teacher of Tozan. So those are kind of important people in our lineage. They practiced together, Sense Tokujo, Dogo Enchi, and Ungan Donjo. And when Yaksan, their teacher, died, they discussed how to continue to practice and how they should continue Yaksan's Dharma.
[19:34]
And this person, Sense Tokujo, said to Dogo Enchi and Ungan in this way, you too must each go into the world. your separate ways and uphold the essence of our teacher's path. So you should go to the world and have a monastery and teach students and continue the Dharma of Yaksan. But Tokujo said, my own nature is undisciplined. What does this mean? Undisciplined.
[20:38]
Undisciplined. Undisciplined. So lazy. Lazy. So he said, I'm a lazy person. I delight in nature and in doing as I please. So he didn't like monastic practice. I'm not fit to be head of a monastery, so he don't want to be a teacher or the abbot of a monastery. So he asked two of his Dharma brothers, you know, you should be abbot. I don't want to do that. But remember where I reside. So he will not establish his own monastery, but he's asked his Dharma brothers.
[21:40]
But remember where I reside. And if you come upon persons of great ability, send one of them to me. So he's kind of cheating. He's trying to hook up a disciple without having a monastery. That's what he's going to do, hooking up a person. Let me teach him and I'll pass on to him everything I've learned in life. In this way, I can repay the kindness of our late teacher. So after that, he went to this river and said,
[22:42]
lived as a boatman that means he ferry people crossing the river so you know this is a kind of image of bodhisattva practice not live in a monastery but be out be in the world and ferry people between this shore to other shore and come back to this shore you know That is a kind of bodhisattva practice. So he's not necessarily lazy. But he himself said he's lazy. And so he started to live by the river as a boatman. And later, Daowu or Dogo, Dogo Enchi, went to Samuya called Jinko, where he happened to see Jiashan Shuihui, in Japanese, Kassan Zenne.
[23:55]
He's also a great Zen master. I mean, not this time, but later he became great master. When Dōgo met this person, Kassan was not a Zen priest. He was already a teacher, according to Kishizawa Roshi, in Tendai school, but we are not sure. Accidentally, when Dogo visited some temple, this person, Kassan, gave a lecture. He was giving a lecture. A monk attending the talk asked Kassan, what is the dharmakaya? What is a dharmakaya? Then Kassan said, the dharmakaya is formless.
[24:59]
dharmakaya is Buddha's body as dharma, means the reality of all beings is Buddha's body. And as a dharmakaya, each and everything is formless. There is no form. That is what this person is saying. And the monk asked, Fat is the dharma eye. How we can see that dharma body? We can see the dharma body only with dharma eye. This is the true dharma eye in Shobo Genzo. So fat is the true dharma eye with which we can see the dharmakaya, which is formless. Because it is formless, it cannot be the object of our eyes, or nose, tongue, body, or mind. So what is this formless reality?
[26:05]
And how we can see this formless reality with this dharma eye? And Jiashan, or Kassan said, the dharma eye is without defect. What is defect? Errors. JIEBO LUO- Errors? Defect? OK. Mistakes. I think it's, you know, it's something to do with expression of kūge. Kūge literally means flowers in the sky. You know, if we have some problem with our eyes, we see something like flowers in the sky. So, Dharma-I has no such problem, distortion. That is what Kasson replied, I mean, answered.
[27:12]
Question is, what is the Dharma-I? Kasson said that the Dharma-I is without defect. When Dogo heard this question and answer, Dogo laughed loudly in spite of himself. Dogo was listening to this Dharma conversation, and Dogo started to laugh. Kassan got down off the lecture platform and said to Dogo, So since one person is laughing at him, he got down from the Dharma seat and asked, what is wrong? Something I said in my answer to that monk was not correct, and it caused you to laugh out loud.
[28:20]
Please don't withhold your compassionate instruction about this. So please, you know, give me your teaching." So he felt there's something lacking in him, even though he was already a teacher. I think this is very important. You think he was saying that seriously, not sarcastically? I don't know. You know, this is a story. There are many of this kind of story in Zen texts, but they didn't have a tape recorder. And no one really remember all these stories. And when we read different texts in the chronological order, we found the story develops. and it's getting more and more interesting and meaningful.
[29:25]
So in the beginning, you know, the story is very simple, but it's getting more and more philosophical meaning. So, you know, Chinese people like stories. Instead of, you know, write their idea or philosophy in a logical way, they use stories. So we don't need to think these stories really happened. But these stories are expression of Chinese Zen practitioners' idea. So we don't need to cling to this is true or not. Then Dōgo said, you have gone into the world to teach, means you are already a teacher, but have you not had a teacher? You are already a teacher, but do you have your own teacher or not?
[30:29]
Kassan said, I've had none. May I ask you to clarify these matters so could you be your teacher? Then Dogo said, I cannot speak of it. I don't tell you. I invite you to go see the boat monk at Huaping. So he sent this person to Tokujo, the boat person. And Kassan said, who is he? What is that person? Then Dogo said, Above him there is not a single roof tile. Below him there is no ground to plant a hoe. I don't really understand what this means. Above him there is no roof tile.
[31:32]
Maybe he is homeless. Maybe. And he has no property. So he is really a, how can I say, just a person within this entire universe. If you want to see him, you must change into your traveling clothes so you should go. And somehow he left his sangha and went to visit this boat person. After the meeting was over, Kassan packed his bag and set out for Xuanting, that place. When Tokujo saw Kassan coming, he said, so they are already there, your reverence, in what temple do you reside?
[32:34]
Which is your temple? When Kassan said, I don't abide in a temple. Where I abide is not like. So he said, I have no temple to abide in. You know, this dialogue between tokujo and kassan has something to do with the original question and answer. So these are connected, fat is dharmakaya and fat is dharma-ai. And no abiding is, you know, one side of the dharmakaya. There's nowhere to abide. So everything is empty, everything changing, moving, you know, like mountains walking.
[33:39]
Then Tokujo said, it's not like. Kassan said, where I abide is not like. Then Tokujo said, it's not like. It's not like what? It's not like what? It's not like is nothing fixed. But Tokujo asked, it's not like what? Then Kassan said, it's not like the Dharma that meets the eye. That means, you know, usually there's something which meets our eyes. This is also something to do with Buddha's teaching that action of contact is a source of problems. How can we meet with everything, all people, without creating the poison?
[34:47]
That is one of the basic points of Buddha's teaching from the Buddha's time to Dogen. And there are many different theories or philosophies and approaches or practices. Anyway, Kassan is saying, you know, there is no Dharma in front of my eye. That is the dharma body. So he doesn't see anything, any particular thing. That means he really sees the emptiness of all beings. And then Tokujo said, where did you learn this teaching? Where did you learn this teaching? Then Kasson said, not in a place which the ears or eyes can perceive.
[35:56]
I learned this, I studied this, not from certain teacher, but where the ears or eyes cannot perceive. That means there is no dichotomy between eyes and object of eyes, ears and object of ears. That means going beyond this dichotomy of subject-object or sense organs and object of sense organs. And that is the fact, the heart sutra said, no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no color, no sound, no taste, no touch, no nothing. This is Kassan's answer. Then Tokujo said, this saying of Tokujo is very interesting and important in Zen.
[36:59]
A single phrase and you fall into the path of principle. Then you are like a donkey tethered to a post for countless eons. Do you understand? into the path of principle. I don't like this translation anyway. Then you are like a donkey tethered to a post for countless eons. A donkey tied to a post for countless eons. The... Let's see. Original expression, Tokujo said, or in this text, is iku gatou no go mangou no keroketsu.
[38:21]
Ikku is one ikku. Gatto no go. Mang or bang. Go no. Kei, ro, ketsu. Iku means one phrase, one word. Ga means to meet or to join. And to means head. Head. So gato means head and to head get, you know, meet and hit each other. That means da. And go means word. Word. So the one word or one phrase which is so it means hitting the mark.
[39:38]
So the light expression, really good expression to hit the mark, to hit the reality or truth. I don't think this Gatto means that you and phrase. In here, he said, single phrase and you meet. and fall into the path of principle. I don't understand this word, fall into the path of principle. But it just said one phrase, hitting head, one phrase that is hitting head word. That means one phrase which really hit the mark is hitting Man is 10,000. Go is kalpa, 10,000 kalpas. So this is the subject of this sentence, is.
[40:44]
Bango, ke means to tie, so tethered. Ro is donkey. And cat is a stake or pole. I think in ancient China, they tie a donkey on a stake not to let the donkey go somewhere else. But donkey need a pole. space to move around. So they tied the donkey on a pole and let the donkey walk around the pole. What Tokujo is saying here is the word or expression that is really hit the mark, can be or is that a stake fit tie the donkey,
[41:51]
and not let go freely. That means, you know, your expression is, I mean, custom the expression is right. But that is the pole which keep you tied and not make you free. When we start to study or practice, we have some problems usually or some questions, and we study or practice in order to find the answer to our questions or find a way to get out of the problem. And I think almost always we start to practice with such a condition. And when we are lucky, we find some answer to our question or some way we feel we get out of this problem, certain problem, particular problem for me.
[42:56]
Then we think, oh, this is dharma. this is practice, this is Buddha way, and we cling to it. Even though that is really true teaching and true practice, we cling to, this is Dharma. And we are tied on this pole or stake, and we walk around this pole. So even if this pole is really a true dharma, pole is just a pole. So this is the same idea with expression of golden chain. You know, before we practice, we are chained with an iron chain. But when we start to practice, we find the truth in Buddha's teaching.
[44:00]
And somehow this teaching become golden chain. It's gold, not iron, but still chain. We are changed. We are changed by Dharma. And that is a kind of still limitation. Please. A question that arose then is how do we then get rid of chain, whether iron or gold? I think that is the main point of this story. So he said, what you are saying is still a stake. It's okay, but that's just a stake, and you are just walking around that stake. And Tokujo said, You have let down a thousand foot line. He's talking about fishing. A thousand foot line, a thread of fishing.
[45:06]
You are fishing very deep, but your hook is still shy by three inches. you reach to the thousand feet deep, but you need three more inches. Then, why don't you say something? So you should say a little more, three more inches. You reach to a thousand feet depth, but three more inches. That means you should say something more. And as Kassan was about to speak, so he tried to say something. Then Tokujo knocked him into the water with the oar. So they are on the boat, on the water.
[46:10]
You know, this is important point. They are on the boat. that is always changing, always moving. And this is a boat to ferry from this side to the other shore. So he was knocked into the water. This is important. Not discussing on the boat, but jumping into the water. When Kassan crumbled back into the boat, Tokujo yelled at him, speak, speak. Kassan tried to speak, but before he could do so, Tokujo struck him again. So he was still trying to say something, but Tokujo struck him again into the wall.
[47:14]
Remember, this is a story. He then nodded his head three times. He stopped speaking, but he just nodded his head three times. That means he was really free from thinking about the water because he was completely in the water. He found he didn't need to say anything. Then Tokujo said, now you are the one with the pole and line. Now you have the pole and line to fish. Just act by your own nature and don't defile the clear waves. So now you've got it. So I think that means I'll give you the fishing rod and thread.
[48:19]
Then Kassan asked, what do you mean by throw off the line and cast down the pole? That means Tokujo is giving his pole and thread to Kassan. And Kassan asked, why do you do such a thing? Then Tokujo said, the fishing line hangs in the green water. drifting without intention. That is what Thakurjo wanted to do, just drifting without intention because he was a lazy person. Once he gave this pole and rod to someone else, he doesn't need to teach anymore. Carson said, there is no path whereby words may gain entry to the essence.
[49:27]
So through words, or using words, we cannot get into the mountain. The tongue speaks, but cannot speak it. We can say anything which can be a right way to express the Dharma, but the tongue cannot speak it. Tokujo said, when the hook disappears into the river waves, the hook disappeared into the water, then the golden fish is encountered. That means when we stop fishing, our fishing is really getting into the water, the golden fish come up. What is this golden fish? of course, the dharma body of Buddha.
[50:35]
So in order to fix the dharma body, we should stop fishing. Then the golden fish come up from From that side, not I get or I catch or I found or I own or attain the Dharmakaya. But Dharmakaya really appeared. Then we stopped fishing, actually. And that is the way we fish the Dharmakaya. Tokujo said this. Kassan then covered his ears. He didn't need to hear anymore, so he covered his ears. Tokujo said, that's it, that's it, that's it.
[51:40]
So he... the transmission of Dharma is done. Then, he then enjoined custom saying, And he gave some admonition to Kasson. Hereafter, conceal yourself in a place without any trace. Place without any trace is the expression Dogen used before in Sansui-kyo. So we should conceal ourselves, hide ourselves in a place without any trace. That means our practice should be really traceless, no attachment, no clinging. If the place has any sign, any sign means the sign of domination,
[52:48]
Don't stay there. Leave. I stayed with Yaksan for 30 years. And what I learned there, I have passed to you today. Now that you have it, Stay away from crowded cities. Don't stay in the cities, crowded cities. Instead, plant your hoe deep in the mountains. Plant your hoe, H-O-E, deep in the mountains. It said Tokujo didn't have a place to plant the hoe, but Tokujo asked his student to plant his hoe in the mountains. and find one person or one half a person who won't let it die.
[53:59]
So transmit this dharma to even one person or even half a person. That means the number of people is not important. You don't need to establish a huge monastery. But you should transmit this dilemma to one true practitioner of the way. And this is almost the same admiration Dogen's teacher, Kendo Nyojo, gave to Dogen when Dogen went back to Japan. So I think this is kind of very important teaching for Dogen, too. Anyway, this is the end of the story. So I go back to San Suikyo. So long ago, when the preceptor Tokujo suddenly left Yaksan and went to live on the river,
[55:11]
He got the sage of Xuanting River. This sage of Xuanting River is Kassan. So he got, he hooked a person through disciples. And is this not fuking a fish? So Tokujo fuked a fish. And it is not fuking a person. In a sense, it's fuking a person, the custom. And is it not fuking water? Actually, Tokujo fuked the water. the reality of all beings? And is it not fuking himself? And actually, that reality of all beings is nothing other than himself. So he fuked himself. And that The person got to see Tokujo, Dei Chen, is because he was Dei Chen.
[56:22]
That means, the person means the cousin, the student. Got to see, he went to see Tokujo, the boat person, because this person is Tokujo. Do you understand what I mean? Yeah, Kassan and Tokujo. Tokujo was actually Kassan himself. So he was, I mean, when he heard of Tokujo from Dogo, I don't think he himself felt in that way, but from Dogen's point of view, that Kassan's true self is Tokujo. This is a kind of a relationship between teachers and students.
[57:26]
Yes. Yeah. Yes, yes. Sometimes Dogen uses the expression tan-den. Tan means single or singular. Den is transmission, single transmission or singular transmission. This was single means just one transmission. We can interpret this expression one transmission or single transmission. I think I discussed this in the introduction of whole-hearted way. Dogen used this expression in Vendoa. And it could be interpreted in a few ways. One is only one thing, one dharma is transmitted from teacher to student. And another is, let's see, the teacher and student are one.
[58:39]
And there's nothing to transmit, actually. So we can see both sides. So it says here that the person got to see Churchill in the closed key, first Kasson. Yeah, Kasson was Tokujo. And Tokujo's accepting the person, Tokujo accepted Kassan because when Tokujo accept Kassan, how can I say, Tokujo's accepting the person is he's meeting the person. This meeting is really important. How we can really meet with people, persons. Meeting is a kind of contact.
[59:42]
It could be a cause of problems. But when we really meet, we have real contact, then this contact doesn't create poisons. You know, meeting or contact without producing poison is real meeting. And how is it possible? It's really important point. not only in our practice of Zen with teachers and co-practitioners, but also in our day-to-day lives outside the Zen-do, how we can meet with people without producing poisons. And at least in the case of meeting between teacher and student, because there's no separation
[60:44]
You know, between teachers, you know, this is kind of an ideal thing, not really, not always. You know, we are just ordinary human beings, so even between teachers and students, we often have conflict. And sometimes we create, you know, poison. but idea of dharma transmission from teacher to student or the relationship between teacher and student is there's no separation as a water we are all both in the water so water for the water or the way the way so there's no separation how can we meet with not only teachers, but with other people in this way. I think that is very essential point of our practice. How can we meet people?
[61:48]
And then the contact is not the cause of problem, but contact is a cause of nirvana. How can, you know, this is really pivotal point. How can we meet with people or things without, you know, producing poison? Depending upon this point, our life and this world becomes samsara or nirvana. And here, I think it's not possible to translate, but the meaning of Tokujo's name is important. Tokujo's name is
[62:51]
In Japanese pronunciation, toku and jo. And this is de-chen in Chinese pronunciation. But this toku means virtue, virtue or merit. And this jo means sincerity. So in Japanese, we can read, you know, that person, this sentence, that person got to see that Tokujo is because he was Tokujo. We can read as one interpretation that the person got to see Tokujo is, he is virtuous and sincere. But it's not possible to translate it in two ways. But so I think is important.
[64:19]
And I think that is a point of how we can meet with others you know, without causing poisonous mind. It's virtues or merit, virtues and sincerity. In this case, this virtue is, of course, virtue of the way, dōtoku. Dōgen said the mountain has two virtues. One is always abiding peacefully, and another is always walking. These are two virtues of the way. So when we see those two virtues of the way, and we are very sincere, then we can meet with others without causing poisons. But in this English translation, we cannot read in that way.
[65:28]
That is a kind of a difficulty to understand Dogen only through translation. If you watch the Dalai Lama, he does this. If you watch him, whenever he comes in contact with a person, Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I met him a few times, but he's really such a person. He doesn't create problems or poison, really. It seems he's really free from three poisonous minds.
[66:29]
Well, I need to go further. It is not the case simply that there is water in the world. Within the world of water, there is a world. So in this here, water means the reality of all beings. So reality of beings is not a part of the world, but this world is a part of this reality of life. And this is true not only within water, Within clouds, as well, there is world of sentient beings. Within wind, there is world of sentient beings. Within fire, there is world of sentient beings. Within earth, there is world of sentient beings.
[67:49]
Within the dharma realm, there is a world of sentient beings, wherever. Within a single blade of grass, there is world of sentient beings. Within a single stuff, there is a world of sentient beings. So world of sentient beings is really all over. And the reality of all beings is really also really all over in any part of the universe. And wherever there is a world of sentient beings, there inevitably is the world of Buddhas and ancestors. We usually think the world of sentient beings is samsara. But wherever samsara is, there could be nirvana, because samsara and nirvana are not two separate things or two separate stages or spaces.
[68:59]
or praise. But whether or not we encounter with other people or situation with virtue and sincerity, we create samsara or nirvana. And a single blade of grass refers to working in our daily lives. And a single staff refers to the master's teaching or our practice. Staff is used when the monks travel pilgrimage to see teachers and to practice. So, wherever we are, it can be a world of Buddhas and ancestors, if there is a world of sentient beings. That means wherever we are, even in the practice center, it can be samsara.
[70:11]
So we have to see from both sides. And it really depends upon what kind of attitude we have or what kind of spirit we have. A community can be samsara or nirvana or both or not, neither. And the reason this so, we should study very carefully. So we have to be very careful to study how we meet with others. And a little more. In this way, water is a palace of the true dragon. It is not flowing away. Water is the palace of the true dragon. If you read the ,, you know what true dragon means. Is true dragon appear in Fukanzazengi?
[71:20]
Yes. Well, there is a story, old stories. In ancient China, a person who love dragon, And he collected all different kinds of miniaturized dragons and placed all those dragons in his room. So one day, the true dragon thought, because this person loved dragons, even the not true ones, He must be very happy when I visited him. So the true dragon visited his house. Then the person was frightened and escaped. This is the story. So we love, you know, miniature or how can I say, curved dragon, curved dragon.
[72:30]
But we don't like true dragons. And Dogen used this analogy in Fukan Zazengi as a true Zazen. And we like the idea of Zazen, but we don't like the idea of Zazen. So here, Dogen said, this water, the water Dogen is discussing is the palace of true dragon, or in this case, the true person of the way, the person who is really living within the water, or this awakening to the reality of all beings and really live in that way. So it is not flowing away.
[73:36]
Until here, Dogen discussed only flowing of water, the way water moves. He didn't say anything about water doesn't move or no flowing. But here he said, as a palace of true dragon, the water doesn't move. Water doesn't flow. It's there, as dragon or fish sees water at their palace. If we regard it only as flowing, the word flowing is an insult to water. It is like imposing not flowing. So we should remember not flowing side of water. So water also has a virtue of flowing and not flowing, peacefully abide in each dharma position.
[74:50]
And water is nothing. Water is nothing but water's real form just as it is. Water is the virtue of water. It is not flowing. This real form, just as it is, is Nyoze Jisoo. Nyoze is the word I think I discussed before, but Nyo is like, and they is this.
[76:05]
And this is translated as English suchness, thusness, abilitiesness, or just like this. So this is the word which refer to the reality as it is, Nyoze. This is the first word in Hōkyō-Zanmai, Nyōzen no Hō, the Dharma of Darkness. And Jitsu means true or genuine or real. And Sō is form. And this jissō is a word used in the Lotus Sutra in shōhō jissō, the reality of all beings or all existence. This reality is true form, jissō, shōhō jissō. And also, this is, this soul is a part of, you know, the long name of Shobo Genzo.
[77:12]
Shobo Genzo, Nehan Myoshin, Jissou, Musou, Mimyono Hormones. You know, this Jissou and Musou. So true form is no form. you know, this is what has been transmitted through teachers and students. And this is what, you know, the Lotus Sutras said, this is to show this and to allow all beings to see this true form or this soul is only reason all Buddhas appeared in this world. So this is really an essential point of Mahayana Buddhism and also Zen tradition. And Dogen said, this water is nothing other than this nozen ho and true form that has been transmitted.
[78:22]
So he said, water is a virtue of water. It is not flowing. Maybe we should say it is not simply flowing. It has a virtue of not flowing too. So in the thorough study of the flowing or the not flowing of a single drop of water, here a single drop of water means this ourselves. We are a single drop of water. We are part of the water, but it's a single tiny drop. It appear and stay for a while and go away. So when we see the two virtues of this, our own personal virtues of flowing and not flowing, that means changing and improving our progress,
[79:44]
and also the side of not flowing, that is peace, peacefulness. We find peacefulness without this not flowing side of water. So not only the truth or reality that has been transmitted from teacher to student in Zen tradition, but also within our personal life, There are two virtues, two sides, flowing and not flowing. We need peace. And we are at peace in each moment. And we need to progress. We need to go certain direction. So this reality of beings is not something, you know, the abstract truth outside of ourselves, but he's actually discussing about this person's life, body and mind.
[80:52]
So in the thorough study of the flowing, or I think this is not or, but and, the thorough study of the flowing and the not flowing of a single drop of water, the entirety of the 10,000 things is instantly realized. This reality is also genjo. So when we really, deeply, thoroughly investigate the condition, not the condition, but reality of this being, we can study the entirety of the 10,000 things, everything. And the reality of 10,000 things is instantly realized or actualized within our own life.
[81:58]
And among the mountains as well, not only the water, but among the mountains as well, there are mountains hidden in jewels. There are mountains hidden in marshes, mountains hidden in the sky. There are mountains hidden in mountains. There is a study of mountains hidden in hiddenness. Here, he's discuss about hidden. And this hidden is a translation of . Zo in shobogen zo. In the case of shobogen zo, that means storehouse. So hidden could mean to store, to be within shobogen true dharma I. That means we are hidden within true dharma.
[83:15]
That means we really become true dharma itself, true dharma-I itself. That is what, you know, Tokujo and Kassam discussed. Please. Can you say also stored as well, hidden? Yeah, when something is stored in a treasure house, we cannot see it because it is stored. Please. talking about like a tree falls in the forest, no one's there to hear it that kind of? I think so. Yes. So mountain is a hidden within mountain, we are hidden ourselves, you know, trees are hidden industries. Yeah, I think we can interpret in the same way. This is the last sentence of this section. Hidden is important. That means it's not revealed.
[84:21]
And yet, it is always revealed. As Dogen said in Tender Kyokun, nothing is hidden. Please. Kind of like when you're in the mouth, you can't see the mouth. Yeah, same thing. So when we are really one with mountain, mountain is hidden. And we are hidden within mountain. And mountain is hidden within mountains. So there's no form. It's not kind of a, how can I say? idea, but it's our practice. Within our practice, Buddha is hidden. Buddha is hidden means Buddha is stored. Within our practice of, for example, chopping vegetables or cleaning ground or rooms, Buddha is hidden.
[85:29]
Please. I think so, yes. Even within the war, within bombing, within killing Buddha, Well, I think it's time to stop. We have two more paragraphs this afternoon. I think I can finish. No, we could just keep going. Keep going. Keep walking. Just go to Grand Tower.
[86:34]
Numbers.
[86:35]
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