So, before I get to the food consumption, maybe everything is the food consumption. If any of you are thinking about being a priest, I mean, maybe it's too late, but you know, thought management, I don't know. We'll see. Suzuki Roshi said, all I can do is teach you the Zen I know and the forms I know, then you'll figure out something to do eventually. So, we're working on it, aren't we? Many of you were here, but I thought I'd repeat it just slightly. I am kind of the last person from Zen Center you would expect to have anything to do with teaching forms,

[01:01]

since over the years I've been one of the least involved in any of that. We had a little low-key Zen Center, and then Suzuki Roshi had this idea that he would ask the former Ino, the director of the meditation hall at Eheji Monastery in Japan, to come and teach us the way it's really done. So, in the fall of 1969, he came to Tatsuhara and started instituting this whole system of how to do things, including, you know, the number of people were picked to be what are called the Doans, people who hit the bells and the drums and the chanting, and they also check, you know, are you there or not, and they come looking for you if you're not.

[02:02]

So we, of course, right away referred to them as the Doan Police. The Truant Officers. The Zen Police, the Truant Officers. Anyway, I wasn't one of those seven aghast personages, you know. I'd been the head of the kitchen, and then that practice period I was just kind of put out to pasture, and I dug up the lower garden and sifted the rocks out. So here was all this stuff happening, and it was really quite traumatic for many of us. The Doans, the people who were picked to be these Doans, you know, kind of went around like they ran the place. And there's also, you know, the monetary officers. There's the director and the head cook and the treasurer and the work leader, the head of the office.

[03:05]

There's six, actually, traditionally. Director, treasurer, tento, work leader. Guest, that's the head of the guest. Oh, the Eno, that's it, the head of the Doan Rio, the head Truant Officer. Yeah, the head of that, the Eno, the head of the meditation office. And Tatsugami Roshi was this big, burly Japanese man who only talked in Japanese, you know, very little English. And he had, you know, the classic style. And then eventually you hear this translation, you know, and it would be something like, you know, be sure to get to this Edo on time, or something. It would have sounded so dramatic. And we had to listen to this, you know, it was really annoying.

[04:10]

I told him one time, I said, this is, you know, I am really fed up with all this, I feel like killing myself. You know, just to prove how sincere I am. And he said, if you want to, you know, he said in Japanese, if you want to kill yourself, you either have a fascination with death, or you dislike yourself very much. Get out of here. Anyway. And at one point, you know, people were taking things from the kitchen. It took us a number of years to figure out that you should have a snack area, you know, for off-hours eating. Originally we thought this is then, you know, you eat when the food is served, and that's that. And this is a spiritual place, and of course we can all do this.

[05:16]

But it turned out that people would go to the kitchen at various times of the day or night and eat things, and sometimes it was things that had been planned for the menu, you know, for the next day and the food day. So in a monastery, it's not exactly like it's not yours, you know. This is the 60s, you have to remember, it's still the 60s, 69. In the 60s, you know, I mean, people would come down the road to Tassara and they'd say, well, we want to take our bath, and we'd say, well, we're closed. And they'd say, you can't own anything. What do you think, you own this place? You know, the baths belong to God. How can you keep us out? Who are you? We're God's messengers. Anyway, you have to be quick-witted with these things. Anyway, people were taking various things in the kitchen. But as an aside to all this, you know, one person

[06:24]

One person went and got, was in the kitchen, cooking up, you know, some pancakes or something to eat. So then he got it all together, and he went into this zendo, and got out his oryoki. This is about 10 or 11 o'clock at night. That was reading time. Everybody's asleep. And he's got out a certain dish of food, and he opened up his oryoki, and he said it all out. And we know this, you see, because two good friends of mine, one of whom I was married to for a while, she and her friend saw from the women's dormitory, saw him in the kitchen, and they went over to see what was going on. And they heard him doing a meal chant in the meditation hall. So then they waited, and when he finished eating, and he was paying his bills, they brought in the water. And they let his penis fall in, and the other one came in with a bucket.

[07:28]

So, this person, Craig, is famous to this day, now, in the hand of the Tosakura. Most people, when they came and took food from the kitchen, they didn't go into the trouble of opening up the oryoki. Last I heard, Craig had become a disciple of Meher Baba. Is it Meher Baba? Well, Meher Baba is dead, but didn't they have some expression like, don't worry, be happy? Sort of like... The song? The song, yeah. I think they got it, that song, from the Meher Baba group. Anyway. So, finally, you know, the Tenzo and the officers got together, and they said, what shall we do about this? You know, how do we get people to stop taking food? And they said, well, that's a kind of issue, what shall we do? And he said, take the locks off your minds and put them on the doors. And, you know, again, this is the 60s, you know, we're all God's children,

[08:42]

we all love one another, you know, and people are taking food. They're not supposed to be doing that, because we're all, you know, such friends from past lives or whatever. I don't know. Anyway, so we tried that for a while, you know, all these locks went up in the kitchen door and stuff, but, you know, there was a lot of, and I was one of the people, you know, that when, if you ever found a lock unlocked, you know, like they had to unlock the lock sometimes to get in the doors, and then the lock sometimes, if you sit in there, unlocks, so you just take it and throw it into the creek, which is pretty nearby. So that didn't last a lot. And eventually, you know, the upshot of this was we have it now, in the new kitchen in Tassajara, it's not that new anymore, but, you know, we were building it in 69, and it was finished for the next year or so. And there was one door that you go in and out to go to the Zendo, and then the other door became known as the back door,

[09:44]

and then there's a little counter inside the back door, and it's known as the back door cafe. So there's always bread and butter and jam and peanut butter and fruit, and, you know, all kinds of stuff at the back door. So we figured it out. And then we still have, once a month or so, personal town trips. You can order on the personal town trip up to five items. That's five different items. So if you get, you know, six chocolate bars of a particular kind, that's just one item. So you can stock up on the personal town trips. And there was even somebody, you know, partly this depends on, are you friends with the town tripper? Because there was one person who managed to, like, order, like, a case of Coke at a time on the town trip,

[10:46]

and then he'd also get, like, Kentucky Fried Chicken on the town trip. That's where you need to know the town tripper and make a sort of deal on the side. Because, you know, we don't have meat at Tuscarora. So if you want a quarter pounder or a Kentucky Fried Chicken or something, you know, that's a special deal, I'll do the counter. And then you have to work something out, you know, like, I'll wash your arioke cloths for the next month or two, you know. Depending, you know, what's it worth to you. Anyway. But, you know, somehow I'm still in this business, so I don't know. And I'm surprised at how much I know about any of this business. And as I told you, those of you who were here before, you know, I have, you know, I left Ensinger partly because I was in the middle of a,

[11:50]

or beginning a midlife crisis, which then went on for 12 or 13 years. I'm good at these sort of suffering type things, you know. And, you know, it's embarrassing for me to cry in front of all these people, especially if I'm supposed to be a teacher and that sort of thing. But also, it's always difficult to be around, you know, groups of people. It's not the practice. I love the practice. It's like, I have to sit around in meetings and figure things out, decide stuff. And then, somehow, there's more at stake there than just when you hit a bell or when you've done or what you've done. And somehow, there's other stuff going on. And it's mysterious, like, what is this other stuff that's going on here? I was at a meeting one time at GreenGov and, oh, this is years ago, you know, this is 13, 14 years ago. And we actually were having so much trouble, the staff at GreenGov, and I was the resident practice teacher.

[12:58]

Resident, I don't know what it's called. Resident teacher, anyway. And the staff was having trouble making decisions, so we invited a facilitator. And we had one of these things that facilitators arranged to do, which is, let's go around the room and then everybody will have a chance to say what their vision of GreenGov is. And, you know, you get three minutes or four minutes or five minutes. So we go around the room and, what is your vision of GreenGov? Well, we want it to be a Zen center, we want to provide sitting, and we want to have guests come, and we'd like to do some farming, and we've got the fields there, and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And it goes on, and it goes around the room. And it happens to me. I'm starting to feel so good. I'm like, wow, this is such a shared vision. But, of course, then the facilitator says, now, did anybody not feel included in anybody else's vision? And everyone's going, well, I wasn't included in theirs. And they're saying, no, well, I wasn't included in theirs, and I didn't fit in theirs.

[13:59]

And it's like, I don't know what it's just about. Because it's not anything anybody said. It's just like, these people hate each other's guts. And it's not really about the vision. It's just like, they can't stand to be in the same room with the other person. And then, what is that about? Kind of like, I had this girlfriend at one point, and she said, Dad, you know, I've only known you for six months. I don't think the intensity of your feeling has much to do with me. I think this is probably kind of old material of yours. And, of course, he was right. The stuff that's really intense in any of our lives is not the stuff that's going on now. There's very little sort of life-threatening stuff. But somehow, the people touch stuff, and it awakens old material. Ancient, twisted material.

[15:01]

It touches on it, it lights up. Thich Nhat Hanh calls it watering. Nobody makes you angry. You've got the seeds of anger in there, and they do a little watering, and your seeds sprout. And then, if you get mad at them, then that's how the seeds come to germinate and fruition and create more seeds. Because you get mad at somebody, and you blame them. Or you get mad at your own anger, and the only way then to absorb it is if you can touch the anger with some mindfulness. Oh, anger. And you don't get angry at it, and you have some, if not warm regard, at least just some kind of resistance, or detachment, or anger. And there's nobody to blame that caused it, and so on. And, if nothing else, you know, you chant the Heart Sutra or something for a while,

[16:06]

and wait. Category Richie told me one time, just chant Gatse, Gatse, Par Gatse, Parsan Gatse, and then you stop. And about the second day I was doing that, the anger just broke. So now when I get angry, I don't mind getting angry now. I just get angry, and then it's fine. But I don't have this feeling like when I get angry, like, I've been taken over. I don't know, it's not the same feeling. Anyway, I'm going to talk a little bit now about the Sutra in Satsanghi. And, I want to come back to what we were reading earlier. Sit, sit, fastly, and think, not thinking. How do you think, not think, not thinking? Non-thinking. This is the essential art of Zazen. So we talked a little bit about that, and I want to talk now a little bit about the next paragraph, which is my favorite.

[17:07]

The Zazen I speak of is not learning meditation, it is simply the Dharma gate of enjoyment. It is the practice realization of complete enlightenment. Realize the fundamental point free from the binding of nets and baskets. Once you experience it, you are like a dragon swimming in the water, or a tiger reposing in the mountains. Know that the true Dharma emerges of itself, clearing away hindrances and distractions. So, Zazen is intended, as Dogen says here, the Zazen I speak of is not learning meditation. This means not learning techniques, practices, skills. If you have a technique or a practice, it is a way, as soon as you have that, then you will start trying to get better at it. If the technique is to follow your breath,

[18:13]

then you will say, anytime I am not following my breath, that is bad. Following my breath is good. How well can I do it? How often have I done it? How concentratedly have I done it? Do I ever get distractions? Oh, I am more distracted. Oh, I am less distracted. And actually your mind will now narrow down. Instead of having your mind, it is the hands. Your mind will narrow down to concentrate on how well am I doing this technique. And what does it mean about me? Dogen says, Zazen is not about any technique. It is not learning meditation. It also means, you know, whatever experience you have in Zazen. And it is like I tell people sometimes, take my word for it, the bell rings to begin the period, the bell rings to end the period, anything that happens in between there, that is meditation. I said so. Oh, what about the concentration? What about the enlightenment?

[19:14]

What about this experience and that experience, and all these things I read about? I do not care. Go see another teacher. You know, if you want to learn, you know, particular techniques and practices and so forth, you know, there are traditions that will give you those things. And they are kind of good temporarily. Now the other side of this is that actually you can use a technique for a little while or you can create practices for yourself and sit and concentrate on one thing or another thing. But that is not, you know, absolutely finally Zazen. That is not the, you know, so if you master any particular thing, that is not, you know, that is not the whole story. That is not what we are trying to do is master a particular technique. So then it says, it is simply the dharma gate of enjoyment.

[20:14]

The translation by Dr. Aba used to say, it is the dharma gate of repose and bliss. When I worked on this with Kajetan Hashi, we decided on enjoyment, the dharma gate of enjoyment. So this is why I say, you know, I say these things like, you know, see, you know, where, if you tilt your pelvis back and forth, where is it happy? Where does your body, you know, not telling your body out of position itself and stay there and shut up and don't bother me, but, you know, where, where do you, where can your shoulders be where you are actually enjoying, enjoying, certainly, you know. How can you sit in a way that you certainly feel like inspired? But this also means in a simple way,

[21:21]

the dharma gate of enjoyment is also death. Oh, you know, I'm thinking of the poem by Mary Oliver, where she says, at the beginning of the poem, the wild geese, you don't have to walk on your knees a hundred miles across the desert and think, you only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves. There's some feeling in here of, you know, rather than powering your way, you know, through, or enduring something, that you could in some way relax into something or you would, there's a possibility anyway of ease, there's a possibility of enjoyment. And part of that also then is your receptivity. Are you willing to receive your experience? And the more willing you are to receive your experience,

[22:25]

whatever that experience is, the more possibility there is of enjoyment. And in this sense, joy is, in the Buddhist sense, joy is often used, you know, that your mind resonates with. Joy resonates with. So that means your experience moves you and touches you rather than you back off in resistance. But if you back off in resistance, what about letting that be something that you can resonate with? Okay. I'm in resistance now. Have you let yourself be in resistance? So in this sense also, enjoyment has something to do with not fiddling, not fixing, not correcting, not improving, just receiving the experience in the present moment. And that's very enjoyable. You know, if you all the time, you know, I'll tell you another little story. When we were all at Tathagatagarbha, we had tea one time, perhaps you can forget.

[23:26]

And we have tea, you know, very formally, and we pour out the tea, and we have a cookie or something, and then when the clapper sounds, we bow, and then we start sipping our tea. And after a while, the teacher will say, Carter, you know, do you have any questions? And somebody one day said, Suzuki Roshi, why haven't you enlightened me yet? You know, you can only ask that question if, you know, I don't know. Why haven't you enlightened me? There's something in that about, you know, you're withholding something from me. You know, you've decided I don't deserve it. There's something in there like, or, you know, like, aren't you as capable as everybody says you are? Or, you know, I heard you were a Zen master. Why haven't you enlightened me yet? You know, isn't that your job?

[24:27]

I don't know. Anyway, he paused very briefly, and he said, I'm making my best effort. He said it so, you know, simply and sincerely. But, you know, this is very much, you know, we laugh, but this is very much the way we approach our own body and mind. Why haven't you come up with any better experience? We're sitting here in Scotland, and all you can give me is pain in the knee, and, you know, some self-hatred, and, you know, distractions, and is that the best you can do? Why can't you give me some really nice, spiritual, profound, brilliant, you know, wild, wonderful experience? What's your problem? And then, you know, if you listen carefully, you might be able to hear your body, your mind saying, I'm making my best effort.

[25:29]

If you're, you know, so another way I think about it is, you know, if you were to ask yourself, and I sometimes ask people when we speak, will you have this body? Will you have this mind? The body and mind, in a sense, will you have it? Will you take it? Will you receive it? This is to, you know, enjoy. This is the Dharma gate. This is, it's called a gate, because you can enter it or not. You can receive this body, this mind, you know, with its difficulties and problems, you know, everything that's going on, or you can say, no, I don't want that one. Can't you come up with something better? And, you know, you can struggle like that. It is the Dharma gate of repose and bliss. It is the Dharma gate of enjoyment.

[26:32]

It is the practice realization of totally culminated enlightenment. So this, in a way, you know, refers back to the first sentence. The railway circulates everywhere. Every moment is the practice realization of totally culminated enlightenment. And you call it by a lot of other names. This is to say, you know, that actually enlightenment, it's not possible to discriminate the state of enlightenment from anything else. Most things you can say, this is to watch, this is to watch. Enlightenment has no way to distinguish it. So from that point of view, also, how would you know it when you saw it? So all the time we're busy, like, oh, this couldn't be enlightenment.

[27:34]

There's a little distraction around the fire. There's a little fatigue there. There's a little, oh, it's not quite enough. There's not enough enchantment here. This couldn't be enlightenment. It's not brilliant enough. It's not bright enough. So you will always tend to, you know, if you're approaching enlightenment as though it could be distinguished, you will have some idea about enlightenment, which, in comparison to this moment, isn't it? So, Dogen, in another chapter, you know, he says, when you attain realization, you don't think, aha, this is realization, just as I expected. He says, even if you think so, realization invariably differs from your expectations. Realization does not take place according to your previous conception of it. Realization invariably differs from your conception of it. For this reason,

[28:35]

what you think one way or another before realization is not a helpful realization. So therefore, he says, you should be cautioned not to be small-minded. If I could just this, if I could just that, if it was just a little this, if it was just a little that, or if it was, you know, you could be really small-minded about these things, and like, thinking like, if you just change this or get that, or then, you know, something really great could happen. If I could just sit still in a perfect posture for 40 minutes, wouldn't that be something? Of course, it's not. And every minute, you know, Dogen says, this doesn't mean that, you know, your past thoughts weren't realization. Past thoughts were realization. You thought and you said, those thoughts can't be realization. That's all the time what's happening. You thought and you said, oh, this experience can't be enlightenment. That's your thinking then. You thought and you said,

[29:36]

this can't be enlightenment. So? But Dogen says, even that thought must be enlightenment. You know, in another chapter he says, all the universe is one bright pearl. If you have confusion or distraction, it's just the one bright pearl in masquerading. Dressing up as, you know, confusion or delusion or, you know. But you say, oh, no, no, no. It's actually confusion. Dogen says, now this is the one bright pearl. And, you know, what's the difference? The difference, finally, if you decide, you know, you could also decide, in other words, and you could practice, this moment must be enlightenment. Regardless of how I view it, this moment must be enlightenment. You know what that does? It means, like, it's a little encouragement to receive this moment, isn't it?

[30:37]

As opposed to, this one isn't very good. It's not as good as it could be. It's not really enlightenment yet. I'm such a mystical person. You just say, this moment also must be enlightenment. Like all the other moments. So, why don't I look into this moment? Why don't I study this moment? Investigate this moment? Why don't I receive this moment? Let this moment touch me. Let this moment come home to my heart. Let me resonate with this moment. Be encouraged to do that, because, you see, every moment must be enlightenment. But, you know, in that sense, you won't see it as enlightenment if you say, like, I don't want it. But sometimes, you might actually turn around and go, like, ooh, I don't want it. Why don't I receive that? Ooh, I don't want it. You can notice how I do that and appreciate that, that that's also a kind of enlightenment. Enlightenment must also be there.

[31:40]

Another way of understanding this is that whatever, you know, appears to be happening is not the whole story. And the most well-known, you know, story I know about this is that Jogin says, if you go out on the boat and look around and you know land is in sight, the ocean looks circular. The line of the horizon looks circular. It doesn't look some other way. But you see only as far as your eyes practice can see and the ocean looks circular. But you should know that, you know, the ocean has infinite characteristics and boundless virtues you just don't happen to see. So, in addition to apparent circularity or angularity, you know, remind yourself that the ocean has infinite characteristics and boundless virtues. Boundless virtues. And this is true of each of us. In addition to the apparent, you know, the appearing form, the appearing experience, the experience in the moment.

[32:42]

You know, infinite characteristics are there and boundless virtues, which we're just not experiencing at that moment. It doesn't mean they're not there. We're just, our eye of practice is only seeing and caught by, you know, one particular thing. And he says, realize the fundamental point free from the binding of nets and baskets. In this case, this is a fishing metaphor. You know, nets and baskets, in this case we're using fishing. We're trying to catch something. And realizing the fundamental point, you know, apart from that, rather than thinking, you know, if you set out this thing and you're going to catch something. So in this sense, you know, you should understand or remember that whether you catch something or not, the fundamental point is there. Even before, you know, you have enlightenment,

[33:44]

enlightenment is there. Even before you understand, understanding is there. This means, you know, you have some confidence and trust in your own experience. And find, you know, your way by following your own experience. And then I love it, you know, oh, we're running out of time, but anyway, here it says, once you experience it, it's also, once it's hard as grass, you are like a dragon in the water, like a tiger in the forest. Do you understand how dirty that water is that the dragon's in? The dragon is not swimming about in a swimming pool that's all chlorinated. A lot of people think then is to turn their mind

[34:44]

into a parking lot. I think I will pave it over. Won't that be beautiful? You know, I won't have all these little thoughts coming up and all these little messy feelings. But, you know, sadhana is about like, you're like a dragon. There's all this stuff going on, but you're like a dragon in the water. You're at home in your mind with all these little creatures and all this stuff messing about and swimming this way and that, and you're going to be at home there and sport about with all of it. Have you ever been out in the woods, in the mountains, you know, this tiger? There's not little trails out there. You know? There's no freeways. It's all these, you try to go to a place and there's these fallen logs and brambles and, you know, this is not a pristine English garden that you just walked into or one of these, you know, Japanese tea garden, temple, you know, idyllic spots to have some sense of

[35:46]

you know, the dragon or the tiger, you sit there in the midst of all this stuff. It doesn't mean, you know, in order to have some, you know, in order to arrive, that you need to somehow clean it all up and trim things and, you know, weed things and, you know, chlorinate the water and stuff. You don't need to do that. You just need to sit with it and that's exactly what we're all doing here. You sit with it, you take your posture like a tiger, like a dragon and all this stuff is going on and you sit in the midst of it. This is sadzen. This is Dogen's sadzen. You thought, well, this is just kind of a wimpy sadzen. I don't really know how to do it, do I? I can't, I don't get it. I'm not getting anywhere. My traps and sneers

[36:47]

aren't working very well. My nets and baskets aren't catching anything. Eww. So just sit in the middle of it and you take your posture of a dragon, you know, the posture of a tiger and all this mess, you know, keeps right on happening. You don't need to spruce it all up. You should be doing, you know, this sadzen of the ancestors. Know that the true Dharma emerges of itself clearing away hindrances and distractions. Every moment the true Dharma is emerging. This must be the true Dharma. This is nothing but the true Dharma. Will you have this Dharma? Will you have this Dharma? Will you have this Dharma? I think the last time I was here,

[37:53]

you know, I told you the story of Ikkyu, who was an eccentric Japanese Zen master and he studied with a very severe teacher who, because the teacher was so severe, didn't have very many students. There was only four or five. You know, your teacher here couldn't be that severe. He was so angry. I'm your stick number. Oh, is that right? What did he say? He said he's your stick number. Well, I hope you don't mend it very well so she can impress people with how easily they break. Surprise yourself. Anyway, you know, the story is that Ikkyu, you know, they had to wear the same clothes winter and summer, one blanket each, no down bags. And the teacher

[38:54]

was very, you know, kind of like Hakuin's teacher, you know, kick you up a fortune in a month or a guy. Anyway, in the summertime, we used to go out in a little boat on Lake Biwa and pull up the oars and float this way and that and it was exhausting. And one day he heard a crow cawing. Anyway, something happened, you know, and he thought, I've got it, you know. And he rose back to shore, goes to see his teacher and he says, tells his teacher about his experience and the teacher says, for this you have to do the Japanese, it's called pole carrying the corners of your mouth. Like if you have a big pole in the bucket and you're in the corridor you should bring another pinch of foam. That's very good, Ikkyu. But it's still not the enlightenment of the Buddhas and ancestors. And Ikkyu said,

[39:54]

I don't care, it's good enough for me. And his teacher said, that's the enlightenment we deserve. So this is the story about, you know, having that much confidence in your body. In the Dharma emerging in your body moment after moment. This moment must be enlightened. There's more, you know, infinite virtue, infinite characteristics and boundless virtue. You just don't see that there's nothing in it. Sit like a dragon, like a tiger, in the midst of all that muddy water, in the midst of all that pain. Thank you. Thank you.

[41:16]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I vow to be enlightened. And they said, I request to do all. Yes. Okay. The way we're going to, the way to chant, we're going to chant, oh, I guess, I request to do. Once in a while, you know, I'm going to say, this is like another level DJ. Was there a dedication

[42:53]

you wanted to send out? To Diane. Oh, to Diane. All right. So the ho, ho is the Japanese word for dharma. And the way this chant is, I learned this chant from Maureen Stewart-Virshon. And Maureen Stewart-Virshon got it from so and so. In case you're interested in the, you know, the ancestry of this chant. And whether or not, you know, it's a real Zen practice or a true form. Anyway, that's the pedigree. One of these days, you know, I'll feel at liberty to make up my own Zen. Now that I have Dharma transmission. Anyway, the way it works is, we're all going to chant ho. We'll hit the bell. We'll hit the bell to start.

[43:55]

And then we all chant ho. Ho with, you know, as much of your body and mind as you're willing to put out there into the air. And you let the ho resonate through your body. Join in the sound. You can join in the sound of ho, whatever pitch or tone is comfortable for you. And we'll chant and when you run out of breath, you just inhale and join back into the sound. So it will be one continuous ho sound. Which, you know, once you've started, you'll get the ho part. And then after that, it's just ho. And then every time you hear ho's coming, it's because people are you know, getting back into the sound. So give us a couple minutes and then you hit the bell. And then when the, once you hit the bell at the end, you can finish the breath you're on and you don't have to stop. We'll let the sound gradually die out. Oh, okay.

[44:55]

Oh, I didn't understand. Great. Terrific. Okay, this will be the last chance for the evening. We did this the other night, didn't we? Yeah. Okay, so this is the last chance. Enter into the Dharma of ho. Okay.

[45:20]

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