I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's laws. It is a great pleasure that I am introducing Shohaku Okamura sensei to us this evening. He is a Soto Zen priest, a Dharma successor to Uchiyama Roshi, Many of you who come regularly have heard me talk about Uchiyama Roshi's opening the hand of thought and other texts. Shohaku Okamura Sensei has devoted his life to the practice of Dogen Zenji's Zazen. He spent five years in Massachusetts in the 70s. practicing at the Pioneer Valley Zen Do.

[01:03]

And the last three years he was the head teacher for the Minneapolis Zen Meditation Center. And between those two times he worked on a number of translations of Dogen's writings, including Dogen Zen Shikantaza, worked on opening the hand of thought and Pure Standards for the Zen Community and Homeless Kodo. You have another text at the publisher now, I believe. Well, Bendowa and Zuimonki. Zuimonki. When he accepted our invitation, his intention was to begin a new Zen community San Chin community, somewhere in the Midwest, devoted to the practice of Dogen's way, his writings.

[02:09]

And in the last few days, his life has taken a different turn. And his new commitment is to be the head of a community, Zen center community in Los Angeles to begin with, which would be a kind of bridge between Japan and American Zen practitioners, monks. Maybe you can tell us something more about that. Later. So he's made a five-year commitment to do that, which was not his original expectation. I have the anonymous appreciation for his teaching, for his translations, for his practice, and for the way a sensei lives his life. It's a great inspiration to me. And I want to thank you for coming and being with us this evening.

[03:13]

Thank you very much. Good evening, everyone. This is the first time for me to visit Karmel and practice with all of you. I'm really grateful to have a chance to share practice and Dogen Zen's teaching with you this evening. I'm going to talk about my future later, after my talk. This evening, I'd like to talk on Zazen, based on one of the chapters of Shobo Genzo, titled Zazen Shin. and my translation of Dazenshin.

[04:36]

Oh, that's better. Thank you. My translation of Dazenshin is in the last page of this handout. Zazen-shin was originally a poem written by a Chinese Zen master whose name was Wanshi Shougaku. He lived in the 12th century Song China. And Dogen Zenji went to China about 80 years after his death. I mean, Wanshi Zenji's death. That was in the 20th or 30th century.

[05:37]

And Wanshi was one of the greatest so-called Zen masters in China at that time. So, Dogen Zenji's teaching was greatly influenced by this master, Wanshi Shogaku. When Dogen Zenji wrote about his practice of Zazen, he often quoted this person, Wanshi Shogaku. And here, in this chapter of Shobo Genzo, His main theme is Zazen-shin. So this whole chapter is, in a sense, a commentary on Wanshi's Zazen-shin. He made a comment on his Zazen-shin, Wanshi's Zazen-shin, and he made his own,

[06:44]

verse titled Zazenshin, same title. My original plan was talking on Wanshi's Zazenshin tonight, this evening, and Dogen Zenji's Zazenshin tomorrow at Santa Cruz, but before probably I changed my mind. My mind is always changing. I'm sorry. But, I'm going to talk, before I start to talk on those two Zazen Shin, two verses or poems of Zazen Shin, I'd like to talk about what Ufat Dogen wrote or said in the whole chapter of Zazen Shin. Five he wrote this chapter of Zazen Shin. then the meaning of Wanshi and Dogen Zenji's Zazenshin become more clearer.

[07:55]

And in order to talk about the Zazenshin as a whole, I'd like to talk or introduce a kind of a short comment. on this chapter of Zazen-shin and praising verse, written by Menzan. Menzan was one of the most important Zen masters, Soto Zen master in Edo period, that is between 16th and 17th till 18th century. And this person, Menzan, lived in the 7th, 18th century. And he was a brilliant master and also a great scholar.

[08:57]

He wrote commentary on almost all chapters of Shobo Genzo. I read his comment, his very short comment on Zazen Shin and his verse to praise this chapter of Zazen Shin. Shin, Zazen, I think you know what Zazen means. That is what we did, you know, this evening. That is Zazen. means acupuncture needle. That means to heal sickness. So, Zazen-shin means acupuncture needle of Zazen. This could be interpreted in two ways.

[09:59]

One is, Zazen is acupuncture needle. Zazen is a way to heal some kind of sickness. And, you know, when we have a sickness, we have to take care. That is, you know, one way of understanding this title, Zazen Shin. Another meaning of Zazen Shin or acupuncture need of Zazen is That is the actual meaning in this chapter of Shobo Genzo. That means, there was a sickness caused by Zazen. And this poem, poem by Wanshi and also Dogen Zenji, is an acupuncture needle to heal from that sickness caused by Zazen. and Fat Menzan wrote about this Zazen Shin is as follows.

[11:06]

Zazen is a common name. Zazen is a common name. Zazen means sitting, and Zen is meditation. So sitting meditation, the practice of sitting meditation. Zazen is a common name of practice by both sages and ordinary human beings. That means, you know, we are ordinary human beings. And bodhisattvas and buddhas practice Zazen. So Zazen is not only for deluded human beings in order to make, you know, us into enlightened sages or great bodhisattvas or buddhas. But we practice Zazen, and Bodhisattvas, great Bodhisattvas practice Zazen, and Buddhas also practice Zazen. So, practice is the same. We are not Buddhas, we are not so great, and yet we are Bodhisattvas.

[12:13]

If we have body-mind, if we allow bodhicitta, or body-mind, body means awakening. So, once we allow this body-mind, we are bodhisattvas. And yet, we are very beginners. We are not so great, great bodhisattvas like Avalokiteshvara or Monjushri. But, anyway, we are bodhisattvas. But we are also ordinary, deluded human beings. And we practice Dazen And Great Bodhisattvas practice Zazen, and also Buddhas practice Zazen. So, you know, we are different. But Zazen is the same Zazen. Buddha's Zazen and Great Bodhisattva's Zazen and our Zazen is the same. That is the basic teaching or idea of Dogen Zen's Zazen. So, Zazen is not only for us deluded people, in order to make us enlightened bodhisattvas.

[13:22]

But whether we are deluded or enlightened, whether we are ordinary human beings or Buddhas, all practice Zazen. So, Zazen is common practice for all Buddhists. And, Shin, or acupuncture needle is an instrument to cure or heal sickness. As I said, actually, in the ancient times, in China, they used bamboo to make an acupuncture needle. So it couldn't be so thin. So the Chinese character for shin, or needle, has a bamboo. And now, as you know, they use a metal needle.

[14:25]

Anyway, so needle is an instrument or tool to heal sickness. And, shin here, or needle here, is used to cure or heal the sickness of Zen. There is a sickness of Zen. And, I'm going to talk then, what is the sickness of Zen, according to Dogen. Actually, he mentioned the sickness of Zen in this chapter. So, first we have to understand what is the sickness of Zen. and how we can become healthy, become recovered from that sickness. I hope you are not in the sickness, you are healthy, but sometimes we feel we are sick by Zazen.

[15:27]

And this sickness is, he said, I mean, Menzan said, this sickness is inveterate and obstinate. It's very deep and difficult to heal. I'll talk about the sickness, why it's so deep and difficult to heal. When we realize dropping of body and mind, or shin-jin-datsu-raku, dropping of body and mind, the sickness of inside and outside is removed. So, when we really practice dropping off body and mind. That is Dogen Zenji's expression about our Zazen.

[16:35]

We really sit in this posture in Zazen, then the sickness will be removed. And this is called vigorous and wholesome great wisdom. So, Zazen, true Zazen, real Zazen, is a acupuncture needle to treat the sickness of ourselves and also caused by the Zen. That is Pat Mendon said, and I'll introduce That is sickness of Zen, according to Dogen. He wrote, he mentioned two kinds of sickness in Zen, in Dazenshin.

[17:42]

It said, In the very beginning of this chapter, Zazenshin, he quotes the famous koan about thinking, think of not thinking, how do you think of not thinking, beyond thinking. Dogen Zenji always quotes this koan about thinking of not thinking, and how do you think of not thinking, beyond thinking. This is a basic koan about Zazen. in Dogen's teaching, and he made a comment on this koan in order to really show us the true meaning of Zazen practice. And after that, he mentioned about Zen sickness. At the time of Dogen, he said, Nevertheless, these days, some careless, stupid people say... This is Dogen's way of saying.

[18:55]

He's not so polite. Practice Zazen and don't concern with anything in your mind. You know, practice Zazen and don't concern with anything in your mind. His expression is Kyokin Buji. Kyokin actually means chest or this part of our body. That means heart or mind. In Japan, we say, you know, mind is here. But I think in America, in this country, mind is here. A year later, we moved to Minneapolis. My daughter was five years old. And one year later, we talked about kokoro, or mind.

[19:58]

And when I said, mind is here, my daughter said, mind is here. I was surprised. She became so quickly, so quickly she became American. But in Japan, mind is here. Anyway, so that means, and bujji means no matter, not a matter, nothing, you know, problem, no problem, take it easy. You know, that is, you know, some people think, you know, zazen is a method to reduce stress. It can be used in that way. Actually, sitting in a quiet place and sitting and calm down our mind. It's one of the functions. Become free from a lot of stress in our busy, noisy daily lives.

[21:02]

So, some people think that is zazen. Or that is the purpose of zazen. And this is the tranquil stage of enlightenment. So, just don't care about anything in our daily life and just calm down and sit in a quiet and peaceful place. That is the tranquil stage of enlightenment. He said, according to Dogen Zenji, this is the first kind of sickness of Zen. He said, this view is beneath even the views of Hinayana practitioners. It is inferior to the teachings of human and heavenly beings. Those who hold this view cannot be called the students of the Buddhadharma.

[22:06]

In recent Great Song China, there are many of such practitioners. It is really sad that the way of the ancestors falls into ruin." So, Dogen's criticism is really severe against this kind of attitude towards Dazen. I think because this is a kind of an escape from reality. And this escape is based on the idea of separation, or duality. In our daily lives, we live based on our desires. We feel that somehow three poisonous minds, greed, anger, and ignorance are working And, according to Buddha's teachings, ignorance is based on greed and anger.

[23:18]

Three poisonous minds mean greed, anger, anger or hatred, and ignorance. Those are called three poisonous minds that cause sickness, mental sickness or spiritual sickness. And greed and anger or hatred is based on ignorance. And ignorance is about, you know, ignorance of reality of our life. That means impermanence and egolessness. We are, not only we, but everything, including ourselves, our body and mind are really impermanent. That means always changing. And there is no fixed self or ego. You know, the definition of ego or self, or not self, but ego, because self is sometimes, or often used in a positive sense.

[24:24]

So, ego, or in Sanskrit, ātman. What the Buddha taught was there are no such things called ātman. And ātman is Buddha's teaching. This means, you know, our life consists of five skandhas. The first one is form, or rupa. In the case of our life, that is our body. And the other four skandhas are the functions of our mind. And only those five skandhas exist, but there is nothing else. and there is no ego there. So there is nothing called ego exists that is Buddha's teaching. And the definition of ego is something which is only one, and which is permanent, which never changes, and which is the owner of this body, and operates or controls this body and mind.

[25:36]

In Japanese, 嬢いつ終歳. So, you know, we feel our body is always changing. Since we are born, you know, our physical body, you know, is always changing. First, you know, grow, grow, you know, quickly. And then stop growing and keep that condition for a while, and we can shrink and disappear. And our mind is also always changing. The way I thought in my 20s and the way I think in my 40s is completely different. So things are always changing. Both our body and mind are changing. And we cannot say there is something fixed within our body or mind. It's just a condition or a collection of cause and conditions.

[26:39]

So it's always changing, like a waterfall. And yet, somehow we think there's something which doesn't change. I was I, you know, when I was born, you know, 48 years ago, and I am I, still I am I, and I will be I in Ten years later, if I was alive, I'm alive. So I assume there's something which doesn't change. And we think that is true I, true me, true self. You know, things always changing cannot be relied because it's always changing. So we cannot rely on our body and mind. try to find something we can rely on, something which doesn't change. And that is, we sometimes call it self-identity.

[27:40]

And that is ego. And Buddha taught that such things don't exist. Only body and mind, five skandhas, exist as a conditioned way. That is our life, always changing. That is the reality of our life. And yet, we feel there is something which doesn't change and which operates, which owns this body and mind, operates and operates this body and mind. We call this ego and we cling to this ego. And we want to make this ego important, powerful, and successful, and stronger than others. So we start to compete with others. Or we compete even with ourselves. You know, who I want to be and who I am is different often.

[28:41]

So we try to compete. within ourselves. And, you know, that is a basic illusion according to Buddha. And from this basic illusion or ignorance, you know, in order to protect and strengthen this ego, When we encounter something we like, or something we think valuable, or something which makes us happy, we try to get it and make it my possession. That is greed. And when we encounter something we don't like, something which doesn't help us, something which is useless, valueless, and meaningless, then we try to get rid of them.

[29:44]

You know, from my territory, that is hatred. And yet, you know, they come. Somehow. No matter how hard we try to escape from what we don't like, you know, they come. So we become angry. So, anger and hatred, I think it's one thing. Two names of one thing. And greed are caused by ignorance. When we encounter something, we try to get it, or try to push them away. This makes our life, or this world, of ourselves, samsara. Sometimes we are successful, we get something we like, and sometimes we are not successful. You know, the things we don't like are coming and stay with us.

[30:46]

They like us. So we feel miserable. We feel like we are in hell. This three poisonous minds make our life sansara. And we transmigrate. Sometimes we feel happy. Sometimes we feel terrible or miserable. And sometimes we have to fight against something like Ashura. That causes sansara. And when we practice something like Zen or Buddhism, we want to escape from sansara. we feel, you know, this life is not good. So we need to find some better way of life. So we try to stop, you know, running after something we want or escaping from something we don't want.

[31:50]

That's how, you know, we start to practice. I think actually, you know, many of us started to practice in this way. That is a more, you know, peaceful way of life. how we can find a more peaceful way of life, or a stable way of life. So we try to escape from samsara. We want to become free from three poisonous minds. And practice, maybe it's the right way to calm us down. So we try to sit, And sometimes it works. Especially in the beginning. But when you continue to practice, you know, one month, two months, or one year, two years, you will find, you know, we are not so changed, so different.

[32:53]

Because we are still looking for something. So, we become kind of disappointed and quit practice. So, in that way, if we practice in that way, this practice of zazen is still a part of samsara. We are looking for something to satisfy us, something to pacify our mind, something to make us tranquilize. So, our zazen becomes a tranquilizer. In that sense, our dancing can be a drug, even, and cause sickness. That is, I think, one kind of sickness, according to Dogen. That, you know, just calms down our mind, and that is enlightenment. And our mind doesn't calm down so quickly. easily, actually, never, almost never come down.

[33:59]

Because, you know, as far as we are alive, you know, things, you know, happen. And those things are not always favorable to us. So, as far as we are looking for something, you know, we are in samsara. So this kind of attitude towards practice actually doesn't work. And that attitude is based on a very dualistic way of thinking, samsara and nirvana. And I don't like samsara, so I want to reach nirvana. And this attitude causes even samsara to become nirvana. I mean, opposite. Nirvana becomes samsara. That is the first sickness in our practice. The second kind of sickness, according to Dogen Zenji, is there is another kind of people insisting that the practice of Zazen is important for beginners.

[35:19]

It is not necessarily the practice for Buddhas and ancestors. Walking is Zen. Sitting is Zen. Therefore, whether speaking or being silent, whether acting, standing still, or whenever, the body of true self is always at ease. do not be concerned with the present practice of the Zen. Many of the descendants of Rinzai hold this sort of view. They say so because they have not correctly received the true life of the Buddhadharma. That is the inner's mind. That is not beginner's mind. What do you mean when you say beginner's?

[36:24]

You know, Suzuki Roshi's expression, the beginner's mind, comes from this chapter of Zazen Shin. So, according to Dogen Zenji, kind of sickness is a kind of, you know, as he said, you know, dazen is important for beginners. That means, while you are a deluded person, but if you practice a certain amount of time, and you become enlightened, so-called, you know, kensho experience, some special experience of enlightenment, by practicing zazen or sitting meditation, then you don't need to practice zazen anymore.

[37:41]

You know, they say, Once you cross over the river and reach the other shore, you don't need a raft anymore. You don't need a boat. So for those people, Zazen is a boat or a raft as a means to cross the river from this shore of Sansara to the other shore of Nirvana. This idea, according to Dogen Zenji, is also based on the dualistic idea of samsara and nirvana. And, he said, you know, many of the descendants of Rinzai hold this sort of view. So, this criticism from Dogen is toward many

[38:44]

a big number of descendants of Rinzai or Rinzai practitioners in China at the time of Dogen. And I don't think, you know, in the authentic Rinzai practice, you know, this is... they don't say, you know, in that way. They said, you know, enlightenment or Kensho experience is not final, you know, thing. But that is, for them, in Rinzai, that is the beginning of real practice and real, you know, studying. So, this is not an opinion or idea of true Rinzai, but there are, I don't think it's only time of Dogen in the 30th century, but even today I think there are many, I don't know how many, but there are some people who think in that way, I think, as a kind of a common idea of practice of Dazen or Zen practice.

[39:58]

Zazen is a method to have certain special experience of enlightenment. And after, once you have this enlightenment experience, you don't need to practice anything. Whatever you do, as Dogen said, walking is Zen, sitting is Zen, Therefore, whether speaking or being silent, whether acting, standing still, or whenever, the body is always at ease. So, after you have this experience of enlightenment, you can do anything, and whatever you do is enlightenment. And, I think this is really a mistaken view. at least according to Dogen. He continued his kind of criticism, not a criticism, but his idea of practice of Zazen.

[41:19]

Maybe better to talk about this. He said, you must know that for true study of the Way, you definitely have to cultivate the Way through practicing the Zen without being concerned whether you are a beginner or an experienced practitioner. Actually, we are always beginners. So there is no time we can stop practice Zazen. And this is really important or essential point of Dogen Zenji's Zazen. That is, you know, Zazen or practice and enlightenment are one. There are not two different things. You know, commonly, in a common way of thinking, we think practice is a method or a means to attain enlightenment. So, gaining enlightenment is goal, and practice is method.

[42:32]

But that is still, you know, dualistic, according to Dogen. What he said is, practice is enlightenment. There is no enlightenment without practice. Practice itself is enlightenment. So, when you stop practice, there is no enlightenment. In our practice, practice means our action. Actualize or manifest enlightenment. So, practice and enlightenment should be one thing. And I think this idea of practice and enlightenment are one. I think it is not Dogen Zenji's personal idea, but I think it came from Shakyamuni Buddha's practice and teaching.

[43:47]

I mean, When Buddha was enlightened and became Buddha, awakened one, he sat under the Bodhi tree. And according to the story in the sutra, he hesitated to start to teach. But somehow, you know, he made his mind to start to teach. And he went to I think all of you know those Eightfold Noble Paths. But those are basic practices for all Buddha's students. And yet, according to the sutras, Buddha taught the Eightfold Noble Path twice.

[44:56]

two different meanings. First, he said he found a middle path, a middle way. That means this middle path is free from two extreme ways of life. One is the way of self-indulgence, the kind of life he spent when he was a prince at the palace. And another extreme way of life is self-torment. That is, you know, ascetic practice he really experienced. So he found the middle path, you know, free from those two ways of life, self-indulgence and self-torment. And the way to live based on this middle path is Eightfold Noble Path.

[46:02]

That is one way Buddha taught the practice. And second way, I think, as you know, is part of Four Noble Truths. You know, Four Noble Truths are, we are suffering. All people are suffering. And the cause of suffering or pain is desire or ignorance. And there's a way, it's possible to become free from suffering. That is nirvana. And the way to cease suffering, or the way to lead us to nirvana is Eightfold Noble Path. So, within the Four Noble Truths, Eightfold Noble Path, is a kind of a method from, you know, condition of suffering and condition of cease of suffering.

[47:10]

So, this is a kind of a method. And yet, you know, in the case of Eightfold Noble Path as a Middle Way or Middle Path, this is not a method. Actually, for Buddha himself, Eightfold Noble Path is not a method. Because he didn't practice Eightfold Noble Path before he became Buddha. But he started to practice Eightfold Noble Path. Or he found Eightfold Noble Path from his enlightenment. So, for him, you know, this practice of Eightfold Noble Path is not a method to become enlightened. But this is just a practice of Middle Path. Whether you are enlightened or not, you should practice this way. So Buddha practiced Eightfold Noble Path until his death.

[48:12]

He started to practice this after he became Buddha. But for people who are in a condition of suffering, or a condition of sickness, this Eightfold Noble Path, as a Middle Path, becomes a kind of an acupuncture needle, or the way to heal the sickness. And yet, if this practice is just a treatment to seek people to become healthy, then after we become healthy, what do we do? We don't need to do any more. We don't continue treatment when we become healthy. But in the case of Buddha's teaching, after we become healthy, what we do is eightfold noble path.

[49:16]

So we just continue practice. So, in whatever condition, whether we are deluded, and egocentric, and so we are in samsara and suffering, we have to practice Eightfold Noble Path as a healing process. And after we are healed, we still continue to practice Eightfold Noble Path. If we think in that way, that means the important thing is just one path. Whether we are sick or whether we are healthy, we have to practice as a middle way or most healthy, wholesome way of life, which is free from too extreme self-indulgence and self-torment. most vivid, vigorous way of life.

[50:22]

Just, you know, express our life force in a most positive way. So, our practice, I think, our practice of Dazen is the same. Our sitting practice is a practice of middle path or middle way. Whether we are deluded or enlightened, that doesn't matter. We just practice in this way. And this practice of zazen as a middle path can be an acupuncture needle when we are sick. Whether we are sick or not, we just keep practice, the same practice. So, you know, this kind of idea, you know, we need to practice until we become enlightened.

[51:30]

And after we become enlightened, you don't need to practice zazen anymore. You are free, you are healthy, so you can do whatever you want. It's really, I think, a different idea from Buddha's teaching. So, His Dazen. His Dazen is the Dazen practice, the practice of the Middle Path, which is free from self-indulgence and self-torment, just be natural or ordinary, nothing special. So, in this case, you know, the way Dogen talks or writes is kind of very unusual.

[52:33]

That is, he doesn't write or speak as a kind of an observer. But he, not only Dogen, but almost all the masters, you know, speak from inside of the way, as a person who is already practicing, already in the path. So, that means, if we think of practice or Buddha's teaching, we can say there are people in suffering, and there are people who are already being freed from suffering, that is, Buddha and those deluded human beings. And we don't think we are. one of them. But when we really talk about our practice, we have to say or speak from where we are.

[53:36]

We cannot place ourselves out of the way or out of the world and see things objectively. But Dogen is always talking from where he was, where he is. So, when we read Dogen's writings, we have to always understand or read his writings as a person who is already in a way, already inside of this world. That means we are already living this life. That means we are already conditioned. And yet, we have an aspiration or a body-mind to practice Buddha's way, to follow Buddha's teachings. And so, we have to understand what Dogen is teaching as a person who is really practicing.

[54:38]

Otherwise, what Dogen is saying doesn't make any sense, I think. He continued, the essential point in doing so is that there is practice Buddha, which does not seek to become a Buddha. This is typical Dogen's writing. Since practice Buddha is not becoming Buddha, the koan manifests itself in practice. I think it doesn't make so much sense to so many people. Here, Dogen Zenji uses, you know, practice and Buddha, or practice, as a name of Buddha. The Japanese expression is Gyo-Butsu. Gyo means practice, and Butsu is Buddha. Usually, we read this as we practice Buddha's way, or we practice Buddha, or we actualize Buddha.

[55:45]

But he said, he called our practice, this sitting practice, is practice Buddha. This practice is Buddha. So this practice is not a method to become Buddha. But this practice is Buddha, or a Buddha whose name is practice. So, this practice Buddha does not seek to become a Buddha. So, in our Zazen, when we sit, we don't seek to become Buddha. Because this practice is itself already Buddha. Since practice Buddha is not becoming Buddha, so practice Buddha is not becoming Buddha, is not a method to become Buddha. The koan manifests itself in practice. The koan manifests itself is a translation of Genjo Koan.

[56:50]

This is what I'm going to talk on Saturday. So, I'm going to explain this expression, Genjo Koan, on Saturday at the workshop. So, I don't have time to talk on Genjo Koan, but basically, Briefly speaking, Genjoko-wa means the reality of our life right now, right here. The reality of life right now, right here is Nirvana, actually is samsara. We are conditioned people. We are conditioned human beings. We have karma from the past. This means we are limited. And yet, within this practice, this sitting practice, you know, sit in this upright posture, and breathe through our nose, quietly, deeply, and smoothly, and letting go of thought.

[58:00]

This zazen is itself practice Buddha. And this is a manifestation of koan. Koan means reality, of our lives, but now, right here, this present moment. And this is where we can find nirvana. We can find peacefulness. So, samsara and nirvana are really one thing. If we cannot find peacefulness or nirvana within samsara, within our conditioned way of life, there is nowhere and no time we can reach nirvana. Only this time, this moment. And to really awaken to this moment, moment by moment, and be mindful. To be mindful means to be 100% right now, right here.

[59:02]

We are almost always somewhere else. Our body is sitting here, but our mind is maybe in the past, or in the future, or somewhere else. But to be mindful means to be right now, right here, 100%. And then, what we are doing, actually, right now, right here, is not a step to the future. It's not a result from the past, This present moment, what we are doing within this present moment, is just present moment. And, of course, within this present moment, you know, past is included, and future is also included. So, this present moment is really penetrating

[60:06]

into three times, that means past, present and future. That is present moment as our life. And to be really awakened to this present moment, right now, right here. And stay, completely stay at this moment. And, you know, put our whole energy into what we are doing. That is the way, you know, we can find nirvana within samsara. And we continue to this way, you know, endlessly. So this moment, our practice at this moment, whether we are sitting or doing something else, is the perfect moment. There is nothing lacking, nothing we have to chase after.

[61:12]

But right now, right here, we do what we should do, or what we take as things. We just do. And this action, this practice, brings about the next stage. That's all. So, in the next stage, that next moment, you know, that is present moment at the next moment. So, we just face this moment. You know, this moment-by-moment practice allows us to awake to this moment, moment-by-moment. And that's the way we can find really peaceful and beyond dualistic attitude. just this moment. And yet, there are, you know, different elements, or scenery, or conditions. So, we have to think, actually. We have to use our thinking.

[62:16]

So, our practice is not the way we eliminate our thinking. Our enlightenment does not simply negate our thinking. But, you know, thinking is also a part of the function of our life at the present moment. We often think the purpose of our practice is to eliminate our thinking. No thought is enlightenment. It's a really simple way. Thinking causes us to be deluded. So if we take out thinking from our life, then we become enlightened. But our life is not so simple. If we stop thinking, we cannot make any decisions. And without making any decision, we cannot do anything.

[63:22]

If we try to do that, try to eliminate our thinking, then this is another thinking. So it's really impossible to live as a human being, to live without thinking, to eliminate thinking. And if we think to eliminate thinking, or the stage of no thought is a better condition, again, it's a dualistic way of thinking. So, somehow, you know, we have to think. And yet, if we are completely or simply being pulled by our thinking, since thinking is always influenced by our egocentricity, our way of thinking is somehow distorted. So if we're simply being pulled by our thinking, then our life becomes distorted.

[64:25]

The whole of our life becomes distorted. So somehow we have to find the middle path again. And I think our zazen, our practice of letting go of thought, is the middle path. We don't kill our thought. We just let any kind of thought, not only thinking, but thought, or feeling, emotion, or daydreaming, or whatever. When we sit facing the wall, there's no object, but still many things come up within our mind. That came out of our karma. Even though there's no object, still something comes up and it becomes the object of our mind. We interact with our illusion. That is what we often do in our dazen. But whenever we are aware of that, we are playing with thinking or emotion or whatever coming up, we just let go and come back to sitting upright posture and breathing and let go.

[65:43]

We just keep this endlessly. This is the way, you know, we don't negate or simply take off our thinking. And yet, we are not being pulled, completely being pulled by our thinking. So, thinking or thought is there, but we don't think. It's really strange things to say, but I think if you practice and you have experience, some experience, you understand what I mean. I think I often use the analogy of driving. Ryutaro Moriuchi often uses the analogy of driving. And I think the thing of thought is like I put a gear into neutral. The engine is still moving, and yet the car doesn't move. Even when we sit on the cushion, our stomach is digesting what we ate, and our heart is beating, and each and every part of our body is functioning.

[67:01]

No reason, actually. Only our brain stops functioning. So, as far as it's functioning, this is also Ochama Roshi's expression, secret thinking. So, thinking, thought, is the same as a stomach juice from our stomach. Somehow, it's secret. It's come out. It's springing, welling up. So, you know, our practice is not a method or effort to stop functioning of our brain. But, you know, keep it functioning. And yet, we should see that is just a mental construction. Just, you know, come up of our karma. In the Buddhist philosophical terminology, the deepest layer of our mind is called araya.

[68:16]

Araya consciousness. And araya means storehouse. And everything we experienced in the past is stored in this deepest layer of our mind. And when we encounter a certain condition or situation, something comes up from the storehouse and makes a certain action. And when we are sitting, we have no object. Still, you know, our mind is functioning. So something comes up, pops up from the storehouse consciousness, and often we play with this, and this becomes object. But as far as we are doing this kind of things, we are playing with something outside of ourselves, or we become separate.

[69:19]

Our life is cut into two pieces. One is object. As far as we are living or practicing in that way, you know, there is no way we can really become peaceful, become one piece as my life, as myself. So, you know, our zazen is really a manifestation of koan, or actualization of absolute reality, where, you know, nothing is affirmed. And nothing is negated. Just as they are. Just think as they are. So thought is there. It's not negated. And yet we don't affirm it. We don't grasp them. I think that is a way, you know, we don't negate our thinking, our thought, our karma.

[70:23]

And yet we are free from our thought or karma. It's really a kind of a narrow path. but the way we practice as a, I think, or I believe, as a Buddha's teaching of Middle Path. Well, what time shall I stop? Maybe this is a good time to stop talking on Dazen Shin and open to discussion. Yeah, if you have some questions. Well, I'm sorry I didn't have time to talk on Dazenshin, actually. This often happens to me. Yeah, tomorrow I'm going to talk on Dazenshin. I try. So if you have any questions or comments or whatever you want to say, please.

[71:27]

Practice Zazen as an eternal path, or practice Zazen as a part of an eternal path, like Latha Meditation. As part of one of the truths? My question is, does practice Zazen is a part of Eight Noble Paths, or practice Zazen is a practice of Eight Noble Paths? You mean, part of our practice is Middle Path? Or does it include the whole Eightfold Noble Path?

[72:31]

Does it practice including the whole Eightfold Noble Path, or just a part of a light meditation? Oh, just one of the Eightfold Noble Paths. I think, in the case of early Buddhism, I think meditation, or dhyana, or samadhi, is part of Eightfold Noble Path. One of them we have. You know, those Eight Shoken, Right View, Right Thinking, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, and Right Effort, and Right Meditation, and Right Wisdom.

[73:48]

Those eight. Did I say eight? Okay. So, meditation is seven. And usually, our usual understanding of early, I think, early Buddhism is meditation is one of them. Or, we say, we have kind of three basic studies in Buddhism. That is, Sira, or precept, meditation, and wisdom. And often those are understood as Sera, or precept, is a guideline to our daily lives. So we have to, you know, spend our daily lives in certain ways according to Buddha's guidance. And that makes us, or enables us to practice, you know, right meditation.

[74:57]

And our daily life being according to based on precepts and meditation, enables us to obtain or acquire wisdom. So, they are the kind of steps. But in the case of Mahayana, And also, especially Dogen's teaching, zazen is not one of eightfold noble path or six parameters. Meditation or samadhi is also one of six parameters. But, according to Dogen, this zazen is not a part of eightfold Noble Path, or six parameters. But Zazen itself is a source of all those practices, source or foundation of all those practices.

[76:07]

Actually, you know, Buddha's enlightenment and all of Buddha's teachings came out of Buddha's Zazen, under the Bodhi Tree. And our practice is based on Buddha's Zazen under the Bodhi tree, that is the source of all of Buddha's teachings. So, you know, that is Dogen Zen's basic idea about our Zazen. Our Zazen is not, the practice of our Zazen is not human activity, but it's Buddha's practice. That is what Dogen said. And, of course, in our daily lives, sitting in the Zen door is part of our life. But as a spiritual life, all our activity should be based on our practice of the Zen.

[77:08]

So, in that sense, the Zen permeates everything. And not only the Zen, When we practice, you know, any one of them, it, you know, includes sitting practice or doesn't practice. So, actually, those eight practices and our six parameters are really one thing. Well, is that the answer? Another question? Do you work differently with priests or laymen? What does it mean? Do you teach differently to householders, lay people, than the way you teach to ordained people?

[78:13]

Do you emphasize teaching differently? Actually, Koshin-san was ordained two weeks ago, and he is my first priest-disciple. So actually I never had a priest-disciple. He practices with me, but he's not my disciple. I'm not sure whether he thinks I'm a teacher or not. I don't think he's my disciple. He's a friend of mine. And I hope both the priest and the practitioners, any one of us, anyone, is a friend. Not kind of, you know, like a doctor and client.

[79:24]

I don't like such kind of relationship. So I hope, you know, I can be a friend of all people, and all people are friends of mine. But I think that is the original idea of teacher and student in Buddhism. In Chinese, or Japanese, we call it Zen Chishiki. Zen Chishiki means good friends. And there are three kinds of good friends. One is teacher, another is co-practitioner, or member of the Sangha, and a person who supports our practice. So, they are all friends. But somehow, in Japanese tradition, you know, a student become like a, how can I say, a servant. I don't like such an idea, or I think in this country, it seems, I'm not sure yet, but it seems a student, teacher and student are like a doctor and client.

[80:32]

I don't like this idea neither. I really want to be a, you know, equal friend. Of course someone, you know, kind of, you know, how can I say, I often talk about first teaching from my teacher after my ordination. I was ordained as a priest when I was 22. That was 1970, so 27 years ago. The day after my ordination, I had a chance to talk with my teacher, and what he said is, I can't take care of you. I mean, my father was at the ordination ceremony, and he asked me to take care of my son. And that was his answer, you know, I cannot take care of you. You have to practice for your own. That means, you know, I cannot rely on him.

[81:35]

I think this is a real relationship of teacher and student. That means, he also said, he never faced his students. but he's always facing Buddha and walking toward Buddha. And if student want to go, you know, walk the same path, we follow, you know, his way. And whether the student follow or not, he doesn't matter. If the person want, you know, he want to be a kind of a predecessor, the person who is walking ahead, And yet he never said he is a right teacher, so you should follow me. But as a part of his practice, you know, he gave me many advice. Like, you know, when I first started to practice Atantayi with him, he asked me to study English.

[82:43]

And I didn't want to study English. But somehow I didn't say no. I couldn't say no. So I started to study English. And when he retired, he said, why don't you go to America? And since I studied English, I couldn't say no. So I came to America. And when I went back to Japan from Massachusetts, he encouraged me. He never ordered, but he encouraged me to work on translation. So somehow I did. And once he gave me advice, and he asked me to make decisions by myself. And once I started to do something, he never asked me to do it this way or that way. He really, you know, leave us alone. But when I was in Massachusetts, that was when I was 26 years old.

[83:50]

So I was still, you know, very premature. But he didn't say anything about what I should do. But what he said is, just sit. Be there. Quietly for 10 years. That's all. And he was practicing for his own. Is that his relationship with Guru Sawakiroshi too? I think so. You know, Sawakiroshi was, you know, homeless. He was always traveling, so Uchamaru didn't live with him. But Sawakiroshi only came back for Sesshin. So only during Sesshin, Uchamaru practiced with Sawakiroshi. So, kind of, this is a kind of Sawakiroshi style. And Sawakiroshi called this a hanashigai. What is hanashigai? When you, you know, raise cows or cattle, you know, during summer, just put them in the mountain, and in the fall, you know, they become big and come back.

[84:54]

So teacher doesn't take care of them. But I think in the case of a priest or a monk, a disciple, I think there is some different function. Monks or priests have a responsibility to the Dharma. So I think there is some difference. I think, as a teacher, I have some responsibility to preach disciples, different from lay practitioners or lay students. But it's not a matter of hierarchy, but it's a kind of different sort of way, or different path, I think.

[85:59]

Lay practitioners have responsibility to their own lives at home and at work. And home and work, I think, is the main place of practice. And as much as time and energy allow, people come to Zendo and sit or do other kinds of practice. So, and I think priest or for priest or monks, the main responsibility is to keep the temples or Zen centers or place for practice, you know, going on. So I think there's kind of a different responsibility. But it's different, but not, you know, not a matter of, you know, high or low. Okay? Could you talk a little bit about greed and anger and how to handle that in your life in the right way?

[87:13]

You know, not running away from it, not trying to polarize yourself and accept it in a healthy way, in the right way. the person who wrote the comments on Zazen-shin wrote a short writing on Zazen practice titled Jijuyu Zanmai and that is part of my translation book Dogen Zen and in that writing he said, you know, our life function as three poisonous minds. Greed, anger, and ignorance. And when those three minds work in kind of a wrong way, our life becomes three bad realms of samsara.

[88:19]

That means hell, hungry ghosts, and animals. And those three A poisonous mind functions in a good way. Its cause brings about the three good realms of samsara. That means asura, or fighting spirit, and human beings, and heavenly beings. And that is still in samsara. That means sometimes we are a good person, sometimes we are not so good person. Sometimes we are in a favorable conditions, sometimes we are not. But within samsara, within those six realms, we are really based on those three minds, greed, anger, and ignorance. And our practice is not, as I said, not to kill those three poisonous minds, but according to menzan,

[89:22]

When we allow body-mind and become bodhisattva and try to follow Buddha's teaching, you know, those three poisons, mind, don't disappear, but they function in different ways. And the way those three minds function as a Buddha within the way or in our practice. Menzang said, three... what's the word in English? Sanjujokai. Three-fold pure precept. You know, when we receive reordination, we receive sixteen precepts. The first group is three refuges in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. The second category is called Sanju Jokai, or three-fold pure precepts, and the ten major precepts.

[90:28]

And Menzang said, three poisonous minds, greed, anger, and ignorance, work as three pure precepts. And three pure precepts are doing everything good, or wholesome, and refraining from doing unwholesome, and embracing all living beings. And we have to be greedy to practice good. And we have used our anger to refrain from unwholesome or bad things. And we use ignorance or ignorance function as embracing all living beings. That means no distinction or discrimination. It's become really foolish, in a sense. So, you know, we don't kill three poisonous minds in our practice, but both minds function or work in different ways.

[91:39]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ